Rallye Deutschland 2014

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Originally Posted by stefanvv

I see only Ogier's car on wrc+ live maps, is that normal?

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It is not normal, but i've seen it too. The car is in servicepark.

Hirvonen fastest sofar in 2.07.7

Neuville faster trough 2.05.6

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Originally Posted by wwbroe

hirvonen fastest sofar in 2.07.7

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good mikko

Mikko fastest Ford on tarmac.. Evans very good too, but Kubica pretty bad rally again... :(

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Originally Posted by Lundefaret

Yes, that is correct. Latvala is on a brilliant form. In Finland he was really in a league of his own, and he contioues to be really, really fast here in Germany.
In Your attempt to talk his driving abilites down, and give all credit to the car, I think that You forget that Latvala, also in the past, has set some incredible times on tarmac when it has been variable grip conditions (in a Ford BTW). But he has had (and will have in the future) a difficulty in risk management. If You question Latvalas speed when he is on form, I think You are on the wrong path if Your aim is to unlock the secret of why some drivers are faster than others at certain times.

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I am not trying to diminish Latvalas skills on tarmac i am just pointing out that at top level the car has a lot to do with the results... and Latvala would not be the leader right now in a hyundai or a ford or a citroen...

Rallying is the sport where driver input forms the result in the highest degree than any other sport and that is the reason i am a fan, otherwise i would watch ladyboy sports like F1. But your claim that any car is a winner nowadays is wrong...

Sordo half a second second faster as his teammate

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Originally Posted by wwbroe

sordo half a second second faster as his teammate

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go dani_!!

Again a besttime for Jari-Matti, beating Sordo by 0,3 seconds

7th fastest time for KING JM

SS14 Panzerplatte Lang 2 running ;)

how are conditions in last long stage?

Hyundai must be using some really good tape as the taped car is going for 2nd now

SS13 Meeke edged Neuville by 0.5s ... Top 4 covered by 0.9s ! :)

Kubica trough in the long stage in 25.18.3, about same pace as first pass

Ogier off

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bvuy7XbCcAEGOfi.jpg:large

Damage

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvuYkz8CEAAyZ1l.jpg:large

I see Malcolm Wilson Motorsport are on their way to another successful event.

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Originally Posted by RAS007

I see Malcolm Wilson Motorsport are on their way to another successful event.

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Being sarcastic?

Bouffier stopped in the stage

Bouffier out

Bouffier went off apparently

Meeke attacks... 2.7 faster than Neuville split 2.

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

I am not trying to diminish Latvalas skills on tarmac i am just pointing out that at top level the car has a lot to do with the results... and Latvala would not be the leader right now in a hyundai or a ford or a citroen...

Rallying is the sport where driver input forms the result in the highest degree than any other sport and that is the reason i am a fan, otherwise i would watch ladyboy sports like F1. But your claim that any car is a winner nowadays is wrong...

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In stead of just stating that You are right and I am wrong, could You back up this statement by some facts?

Look at Neuvilles speed in the Ford last year. Use Mads Østberg as a benchmark. Look at Paddon in Finland this year, use Neuville as a benchmark. Look at Mikkelsen in a Skoda in Poland in 2009, use everybody else as a benchmark. Look at Pontus Tidemans speed in Sweden in a private Ford in 2013, compare that to the same driver in a factorys spec Ford in 2014. Look at the differences in speed of Latvala when he is on form, and when he is not - in the same car. Look at Østberg vs Meeke in Finland this year. In the same car. Østberg with a lot more experience in botth WRC cars, and in Finland. Still, Meeke much faster.

The problem is that when the drivers dont drive fast enough the first assumption is that it is the car that is at fault. If Neuville was not at Ford last year, You would have written of the Ford as a slow car, because You would set Mads as the benchmark, believing he was driving the Ford to the max. As You are doing right now, thinking Mikko is really on it, its just the car, and Ogier would have no chance in a Ford.

Instead You should be preoccupied with finding out why Mikko Hirvonen suddenly drives at the speed of the novice Evans. Why is he suddenly so slow?

Off cource there is some differences between the cars, but they are much smaller than You think. They are so small that Ogier would fight for wins in a Hyundai, Ford, Citroën or a VW.

But dont worry, You are not alone, a lot of drivers thinks exactly the same. Its easier to accept that the car is not good enough, instead of accepting that it is them self that dont deliver. But it is wiser to accept the latter, because then You start working with that gives the highest degree of improvement, namely working on You own skills.

Meeke accelerates on SS14 :cool:

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Originally Posted by Lundefaret

In stead of just stating that You are right and I am wrong, could You back up this statement by some facts?

Look at Neuvilles speed in the Ford last year. Use Mads Østberg as a benchmark. Look at Paddon in Finland this year, use Neuville as a benchmark. Look at Mikkelsen in a Skoda in Poland in 2009, use everybody else as a benchmark. Look at Pontus Tidemans speed in Sweden in a private Ford in 2013, compare that to the same driver in a factorys spec Ford in 2014. Look at the differences in speed of Latvala when he is on form, and when he is not - in the same car. Look at Østberg vs Meeke in Finland this year. In the same car. Østberg with a lot more experience in botth WRC cars, and in Finland. Still, Meeke much faster.

The problem is that when the drivers dont drive fast enough the first assumption is that it is the car that is at fault. If Neuville was not at Ford last year, You would have written of the Ford as a slow car, because You would set Mads as the benchmark, believing he was driving the Ford to the max. As You are doing right now, thinking Mikko is really on it, its just the car, and Ogier would have no chance in a Ford.

Instead You should be preoccupied with finding out why Mikko Hirvonen suddenly drives at the speed of the novice Evans. Why is he suddenly so slow?

Off cource there is some differences between the cars, but they are much smaller than You think. They are so small that Ogier would fight for wins in a Hyundai, Ford, Citroën or a VW.

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+1

Meeke going well... come on Kris let's see your speed !

New besttime for Ostberg in 25.01.8

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Originally Posted by Lundefaret

In stead of just stating that You are right and I am wrong, could You back up this statement by some facts?

Look at Neuvilles speed in the Ford last year. Use Mads Østberg as a benchmark. Look at Paddon in Finland this year, use Neuville as a benchmark. Look at Mikkelsen in a Skoda in Poland in 2009, use everybody else as a benchmark. Look at Pontus Tidemans speed in Sweden in a private Ford in 2013, compare that to the same driver in a factorys spec Ford in 2014. Look at the differences in speed of Latvala when he is on form, and when he is not - in the same car. Look at Østberg vs Meeke in Finland this year. In the same car. Østberg with a lot more experience in botth WRC cars, and in Finland. Still, Meeke much faster.

The problem is that when the drivers dont drive fast enough the first assumption is that it is the car that is at fault. If Neuville was not at Ford last year, You would have written of the Ford as a slow car, because You would set Mads as the benchmark, believing he was driving the Ford to the max. As You are doing right now, thinking Mikko is really on it, its just the car, and Ogier would have no chance in a Ford.

Instead You should be preoccupied with finding out why Mikko Hirvonen suddenly drives at the speed of the novice Evans. Why is he suddenly so slow?

Off cource there is some differences between the cars, but they are much smaller than You think. They are so small that Ogier would fight for wins in a Hyundai, Ford, Citroën or a VW.

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blah blah blah blah... wake up.

No way Latvala without the VW would be 1 min ahead of Sordo/Neuville/Meeke and winning stages while these 3 are risking everything... the opposite would be much likely. Go to bed... you are tired.

The hyundai Citroen Ford are close yes and maybe so equal that the drivers is the only difference but VW is way ahead.

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Originally Posted by Lundefaret

They are so small that Ogier would fight for wins in a Hyundai, Ford, Citroën or a VW.

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A statement which we can't put to a test unless Ogier switches to one of those marques. Which is not going to happen so the whole debate is academic.

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

Meeke going well... come on Kris let's see your speed !

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:) :) Love to see Meeke succeed after all these years in the dark... He has always been a top driver!!

You mean, it's academic that VW is the best car now, ok, everybody to their own..

Both Fords are a litlle slower then Mads Ostberg

New besttime for Neuville in 24.53.8

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

blah blah blah blah... wake up.

No way Latvala without the VW would be 1 min ahead of Sordo/Neuville/Meeke and winning stages while these 3 are risking everything... the opposite would be much likely. Go to bed... you are tired.

The hyundai Citroen Ford are close yes and maybe so equal that the drivers is the only difference but VW is way ahead.

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Just a small question in relation to the way You build up Your arguments - do You find Your selv in the midst of puberty? It would explain a lot;)

King latvala :))

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Originally Posted by Lundefaret

Just a small question in relation to the way You build up Your arguments - do You find Your selv in the midst of puberty? It would explain a lot;)

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you are comparing different years and different drivers in different situations... how can i cope with gibberish ??? you are talking nonsense... simple as that...

VW have a far superior car... as you said Ogier would FIGHT in a citroen/ford/hyundai... in VW he drives around other guys in circles...

Wow, Mekke is really fast, Kubica said the asphalt is drying very quickly, might be true, so later drivers are in better position now

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Originally Posted by Lundefaret

Just a small question in relation to the way You build up Your arguments - do You find Your selv in the midst of puberty? It would explain a lot;)

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Don't go down that route.

Splits not working again :(

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Originally Posted by Franky

Don't go down that route.

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No use warning, NOT will rant regardless.