Rally Italia Sardegna '16

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by satnav

Just heard Hyundai have failed post event , don't know what for yet !!!!!
Had a txt from a guy over there

---

What? :o Anybody got a confirmation for this?

Stewards Communication No. 4:

"The stewards authorise the opening of parc fermé for all cars except the cars still in final scrutineering and car No. 4."

So Sordo's car got something wrong?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rallyper

When did only last day count? So answer is - never.

---

I was remarking on the hugely impressive pace with an R5 car, but nevermind.

You didn't answer the question anyhow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dimviii

its so easy,that they had to diasadvantage the faster guy for 2 days(and 80% of stage kms),to have a different winner.
No its not so easy jan.

---

Everything is relative..I was making a perhaps too subtle sarcasm at the space-technology laden, unimaginably sophisticated cars costing sums that make the cars unattainable for all but a few people with truckloads, literally millions, to spend.

In other words without the millions*, no car and crew and mountain of parts, without that, nothing.













* key part of talent

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mirek

Actually it did and still does. ERC uses different format where instead of superally they give bonus points for results in each leg. There he would score one point overall but would not be classified in finish like here.

---

This WRC, not ERC.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RS

I was remarking on the hugely impressive pace with an R5 car, but nevermind.

You didn't answer the question anyhow.

---

Second sentence was your answer. If PT would win last day overall, for sure everyone on this forum should clearly point out to me, some or many extra ordinary circumstances why it happened, so I would never state anything about third day results only.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Everything is relative..I was making a perhaps too subtle sarcasm at the space-technology laden, unimaginably sophisticated cars costing sums that make the cars unattainable for all but a few people with truckloads, literally millions, to spend.

In other words without the millions*, no car and crew and mountain of parts, without that, nothing.

---

Still it's the talent what wins and matters. Don't You agree that Ogier with the same car as Latvala and Mikkelsen is very much superior to them even though he never ever bought any place in any team unlike his two team colleagues? In fact he was picked from a national one make cup run with slow and cheap cars. Similar story with Loeb...

Also what is so hi-tech on purelly mechanical 4WD without center diff? It's some nice 80' tech level there. Engines and dampers are of course different thing but the cars definitely don't drive themselves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teme

Stewards Communication No. 4:

"The stewards authorise the opening of parc fermé for all cars except the cars still in final scrutineering and car No. 4."

So Sordo's car got something wrong?

---

or perhaps because Sordo was standing (not on the ruts at the beginning of the PS unlike everybody else) and they think it's given him an advantage...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bluuford

And it seems that we have quite equal championship right now.

---

It is quite equal for the vice-champion indeed.
The funny thing is that even when Ogier is not winning almost every Rally, he is still twice the points ahead. Go figure.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stefanvv

It is quite equal for the vice-champion indeed.
The funny thing is that even when Ogier is not winning almost every Rally, he is still twice the points ahead. Go figure.....

---

Is there a better proof that talent wins over wallet?

The high lights video of Day2, had a overhead drone shot hairpin corner comparison between Camilli and Mikkelsen. Camilli running after more cleaning than Mikkelsen pulled a car length ahead accelerating a short distance from the apex. The cleaning effect must be considerable at times in Sardinia.
Perhaps road order on gravel rounds could be numbered marbles out of a hat for the wrc cars, with the championship points order drawing 1,2 etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PLuto

I dont think to that it is the main reason. He found that he has no chance to move up. He is little bit tired with WRC, he needs to have a new toy, to do something different. Thats why he is trying circuits or Dakar...

---

As only World Championship level is enough for Prokop as I read here, than we can see him in the WEC circuit racing in the future?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mirek

Still it's the talent what wins and matters. Don't You agree that Ogier with the same car as Latvala and Mikkelsen is very much superior to them even though he never ever bought any place in any team unlike his two team colleagues?

---

Bien sur!
Over time Ogier has proven he has exceptional driving skills.
(some might say in direct reverse relationship to his skills as a human being---or in comment dit--menschlichkeit?)

Quote:

---

In fact he was picked from a national one make cup run with slow and cheap cars. Similar story with Loeb...

---

Mais en France, you may (or may not know) there were in those days quite substantial "primes" paid out well down the field of finishers...Quite impressive amounts in cash and "goodies" in the numerous single makes Coupes.
I could send you example from the French magazine "Echappment"
( I confess I have special affection for France and for their approach to motorsport--it is where I spent 2 seasons doing Internationals in my sport--and getting paid pretty damn good..:crazy:)

Quote:

---

Also what is so hi-tech on purelly mechanical 4WD without center diff? It's some nice 80' tech level there. Engines and dampers are of course different thing but the cars definitely don't drive themselves.

---

I originally was commenting on the results of Camilli doing "after only 9 gravel events"

My point is I don't know if HE has special unsual talent---when HE is in such a nice machine.
I know that Latvala and for that matter Hirvonen can drive wonderfully because I have seen them in the simplest of cars---and in my humble opinion, the best car in human history: Group 4 spec Escort....
Cannot be simpler and still move...
THEY i know can drive as well in that as anybody..
We know that of Paddon, too, after NZRC Otago last year..1st Overall in a Appendix K Escort...

I don't know that of Camilli (and vraimente I don't know that of Ogier either.)

And for example, the guy who is responsible for NOT being so bitter because the guy spuns his love missives, the "Chinless Wonder Ben Klock", we know that even after spending a fortune on a "free spec Escort" built far better than old Group 4 spec...he lasted a total of 47 seconds of his first stage with that before blowing the first corner hitting a bank and embarrassing himself to the point of dropping out with some transparently absurd excuse in a Press release.

Take the space ship away and what can they do these Camillis and others..
my point is "I don't know"


(perhaps i use the word "know" very strictly? )

Extreme limited experience in any endevour, and high result make me think the role of experience is not central element.

I for a change think that it doesn't matter at all if Camilli, Latvala or whoever can drive Escort gr.4 if they can drive the car they actually use. And no, I don't think it's so easy ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eli

or perhaps because Sordo was standing (not on the ruts at the beginning of the PS unlike everybody else) and they think it's given him an advantage...

---

Did the 2WD cars even get going there without a push? :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Simmi

I have to admit I'm pretty conflicted about the WRC at the moment.

If you ignore some of the nonsense being spouted by his team boss, I completely understand Ogier's frustrations and, like many on here, I think it's completely unfair being asked to sweep for two days. I'd like to see that regulation changed next year.

But.... damn, we've had five different rally winners in a row! I think that's the first time that's happened since 2001.

You can't ignore how good that is for the sport. The ability to tune in and not actually know who is going to win the event has been a distant memory for rally fans. I'm also enjoying following the events a lot more, but at the same time in the back of my mind I am aware that there's this artificial element to it.

So the big question is what is the bigger evil? Is it more important to have purity of competition than a more exciting show? Like I say I'm conflicted.

I guess for hardcore rally fans it's a case of how much do you allow yourself to enjoy this current format...

---

I think we all have very short memeories...

Remember back in the days when drivers used to stop before the stage end so they wouldn't have to run first the next day?

I vomited bile on the TV when the running order was changed between the days so people were being "tactical" and slowed down. It de-merited the sport so badly there was no words for it. WE. DO. _NOT_ want to go back to that...

Either the format stays or we go back to qualifying stage and the running order stays for the whole event. All other options are out of the picture. The problem is that also the qualifying stage was not a perfect system because it depended on how many runs you managed to get and how well the road was swept and the weather and a million other things.

We are talking about the world's most natural handicap here, and Ogier is 1st because he is the best, despite not winning every event.

Like Simmi says, it is nice not knowing who will win and I for one couldn't care less why. If there was a proper challenger to Ogier, that someone would be running first on the road, but this isn't the case.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SubaruNorway

Did the 2WD cars even get going there without a push? :p

---

I really hope they won't penalise him for that

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

I originally was commenting on the results of Camilli doing "after only 9 gravel events"

My point is I don't know if HE has special unsual talent---when HE is in such a nice machine.
.

---

in the same nice machine were Latvala,Sordo,Ostberg,Ogier etc.
Camilli didnt drove a superior car than the others.Was the same car,and as we have seen from plenty of drivers at wrc level,its not so easy to repeat 3rd times overall when others are pushing.
That he cant drive competetively an ford escort i can take it as a joke.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mirek

Agree. I would personally go even further with the formula which worked well in IRC on its peak. Whatever driver with a car of the particular brand takes manufacturer points if he's good enough. In that time it helped a lot of privateers or juniors to get good machines and support from the manufacturers. It's the WRC what benefits from that now as guys like Neuville or Mikkelsen would hardly be where they are now.

---

This makes so much sense to me!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by itix

I vomited bile on the TV when the running order was changed between the days so people were being "tactical" and slowed down. It de-merited the sport so badly there was no words for it. WE. DO. _NOT_ want to go back to that...

---

Really? For me this rule should be ok. Especially now, when splits are forbidden, it should be working...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mirek

I for a change think that it doesn't matter at all if Camilli, Latvala or whoever can drive Escort gr.4 if they can drive the car they actually use. And no, I don't think it's so easy ;)

---

However you didn´t understand the essence of what dear Mr VanLandingham tried to tell you. It´s big difference between drivers and drivers, at least in our old fart minds.

Hyundai - problems with side windows - http://www.rallyitaliasardegna.com/?ddownload=2246

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Medved

Hyundai - problems with side windows - http://www.rallyitaliasardegna.com/?ddownload=2246

---

phewww...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dupanton

What? :o Anybody got a confirmation for this?

---

It's official now, common sense prevailed thankfully.

http://www.rallyitaliasardegna.com/?ddownload=2246

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PLuto

Really? For me this rule should be ok. Especially now, when splits are forbidden, it should be working...

---

Nah... I am pretty sure they would manage to approximate their pace also without working splits in the car. We'd be back in the same dump again.

...I mean, a professional rally driver who job it is to judge his pace relative to the others should be able to estimate how much to stop to have a favorable position.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by itix

Nah... I am pretty sure they would manage to approximate their pace also without working splits in the car. We'd be back in the same dump again.

...I mean, a professional rally driver who job it is to judge his pace relative to the others should be able to estimate how much to stop to have a favorable position.

---

I have doubts for this too. Mikkelsen on today's PS was slow enough.

50 000€? O_O

...for some bloody windows?
Has rolex released a spring collection of watches and the heads of the FIA decided they wanted some of that cake? ...the hell?

Better then exclusion or time penalty...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rallyper

However you didn´t understand the essence of what dear Mr VanLandingham tried to tell you. It´s big difference between drivers and drivers, at least in our old fart minds.

---

I know quite a lot of drivers who are fast with these old cars but never managed to be fast with the new cars even if they tried. What does it mean then? Are they bad drivers when they can't do something so easy? Or is that point completely irrelevant?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dimviii

That he cant drive competetively an ford escort i can take it as a joke.

---

Probably he is referring to French FWD invention connection. You know RWD and FWD are completely different philosophies in Rally driving. Driving 4WD must combine them in the best way and seems French drivers recently are well ahead at this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by itix

50 000€? O_O

...for some bloody windows?
Has rolex released a spring collection of watches and the heads of the FIA decided they wanted some of that cake? ...the hell?

---

I remember that in 2007 M-Sport got 5 minutes penalty for 0.5 mm thinner side windows... so 50 000 EUR is very light punishment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Rally_de_Portugal

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by itix

50 000€? O_O

...for some bloody windows?
Has rolex released a spring collection of watches and the heads of the FIA decided they wanted some of that cake? ...the hell?

---

It's a reminder that they shall not have chaos in their stuff. In this case there was clearly zero impact on the performance but on the other hand we have seen a loooot of privateers being mercilessly excluded for similar stupid things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stefanvv

I have doubts for this too. Mikkelsen on today's PS was slow enough.

---

PS had only 6 kms...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bluuford

I remember that in 2007 M-Sport got 5 minutes penalty for 0.5 mm thinner side windows... so 50 000 EUR is very light punishment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Rally_de_Portugal

---

Those 0,5 mm thinner windows had a lot bigger weight difference than these. I don't have the homologatio form in my hands but it's possible that those 17 grams may actually be in the tolerance. In any case 17 grams is nothing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mirek

Those 0,5 mm thinner windows had a lot bigger weight difference than these. I don't have the homologatio form in my hands but it's possible that those 17 grams may actually be in the tolerance. In any case 17 grams is nothing.

---

I do not know, tehese were rear side windows, so and half mm for small windnow is quite small difference

It's not because AFAIK in that time they were made of glass which is very heavy compared to polycarbonate which is used now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bluuford

I remember that in 2007 M-Sport got 5 minutes penalty for 0.5 mm thinner side windows... so 50 000 EUR is very light punishment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Rally_de_Portugal

---

And it cost Marcus Gronholm 3 championship points...

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

A ticket of €50 000 for a 36 grams difference... even Prokop can lose 1kg of his weight in the WC after a burger.

This must be the joke of the year!


http://s5.postimg.org/ckesc3dmv/mp9.jpg

If you read the decision, then it was very fair decision. So, this win cost extra 52 000 EUR for Hyundai (also Neuville speeding tickets)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by danon

A ticket of €50 000 for a 36 grams difference... even Prokop can lose 1kg of his weight in the WC after a burger.

This must be the joke of the year!

---

This ticket of €50 000 is not for 36 grams difference. It is for not correct administrative procedure from FIA with homologation...