Evo is much bigger compared to those proto cars, it's heavy and it has very short suspension travel. All of that plays huge difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by KKS
What gearbox do the proto cars have? H-pattern dogbox or sequential?
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Evo is much bigger compared to those proto cars, it's heavy and it has very short suspension travel. All of that plays huge difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by KKS
What gearbox do the proto cars have? H-pattern dogbox or sequential?
You can run a factory box, dogbox or a sequential. That's what's so great about it. Can spec one for 40k or go all out and have one at 80-100k with all the good stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Here's a good look at the Evolve Skoda running Subie gear. Looks damn good too!
http://www.evolve-motorsport.com/fabia/
But problem with this project is that manufacturers are not interested in it. And Skoda was one of the teams which were fighting against R4 as they dont want that some private build cars will start under their brand...Quote:
Originally Posted by racerx1979
And some are a mixture of Gr. A and WRC, some are fully based on Audis etc. Really different cars in the same class.Quote:
Originally Posted by racerx1979
https://i.redd.it/7qaa31621nrz.jpg
Only Audi parts used.
evolve car has totally nothing in common with r4, this was just computer graphic. it never existed and probably never will, so their estimation of building/running costs is just guessing.
their proto car with fabia body and subaru parts was also not succesfull, didn't drive much and had a lot of issues. now seems project dead.
other proto cars, based on evo drivetrain and mechanicals are more or less similar constructions, some decent, some nothing special.
This is actually a very valid point which we somehow failed to mention before...Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
I forgot to post this which explains running costs. A few of us sat down and did our own calculations and the build price they are stating at $140k can actually be done for $100k or less if you choose to assemble in countries like Poland or Latvia.
This link explains it very well.
http://www.heuvel-motorsport.com/proto/
"Brand new proto car" is little bit confusing... especially comparing to "brand new r5" where really everything is brand new.
All protos I know (and I know most) were build from used evo parts. might be refreshed/rebuild but not new. if you try to build proto with brand new engine, brand new gearbox (not only gearkit, but casings also), brand new transfer, diffs with new LSDs and final drives, new suspension arms, etc, etc. then build cost will be higher than currently estimated. Other problem is not all parts are available as new anymore...
Van den Heuvel proto which is described in article was actually build in Poland. And is still on polish registration as it's not easy (impossible?) to register it in Netherlands, also just recently they were able to enter it into rally field, last few past years they were driving as zero/X car as federation didn't allow.
You are free to choose donors from every manufacturer, it`s your choice....We have the Focus RS, i30N, VAG (Cupra, Golf R, S1 etc)...you can be very creative and use brand new cars and the end result could/would be still cheaper than many seasons used R5 or an Oreca R4. Plus a well maintained-rebuilt old evo equipment isn`t a bad thing.
In some countries (Finland, Poland) only Protos with Evo or Subaru parts allowed. Plus I don't think any modern 4wd system will be really useful in proper rally car. That's also why N4 died, as not anymore any suitable cars for it...
I know properly rebuild evo parts are not bad, but then you need to compare prices with used R5 cars, not with new ones. And still for example used Sadev/Xtrac/Ricardo rear diff will be much better condition than used RS evo diff with basically not known mileage... And this is not a big problem on gravel, but with powerful cars on tarmac RS rear diffs for example are weak and not easy to get good condition one.
The currently rally involved manus aren't interested, but what about all the others? Probably most of them won't get into R4 directly, but they can still allow their importers to start a program locally, competing or promoting monotype cups, wich would be great.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
I've said before that R4s could attract rather unknown manufacturers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
99% of those watcing will not know the difference. If it looks like a Opel, for them it is an Opel.Quote:
Originally Posted by mArvAlcao17
The rest are details.
Importers yes, but manufacturers hardly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Yep, you said it before, I said it before and many others said it before, some even when R4 was just a concept; now let’s all hope that the FIA and Oreca will manage to promote R4 among manus, not only to get unknown manus to the sport but also to bring back known manus that have quit rally. Fingers crossed.Quote:
Originally Posted by mArvAlcao17
Agree, in Europe and South America cases, but in Asia, as we’ve been talking, local manus could get into R4 directly. Time will tell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Are ewrc-results.com planning to make a database part for R4?
How do You want to realistically track cars which are not being build by the factory? You can not just physically go to every event and check it personally (quite often You would not be allowed to do so anyway).
Even S2000/R5/WRC databses aren't flawless. Plenty of times it's virtually impossible to track which car is which when teams have more of them and swap number plates etc.
It is possible. By kit R4 number. And realistic... don’t wait many cars. Not the 282 Fiesta R5 or 260 Fabia R5... Wait for more info. Stay with us ;)
Good luck with tracking such cars in South America or on some remote islands.
I am sure You know that even the current ewrc database has many mistakes in it.
It is impossible to track correctly WRC/R5/S2000/S1600/R2 cars, with R4 it will be very similar...
and most of R4 cars will be outside Europe. Vere unknown results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Mirek for sure we know. But the work need starts somewhere. I think we have a great sucess rate ;)
What class is this new Nissan Micra Proto? R4?
It is prepared by Dytco Sport (Proto Cars), Tomson Motorsport και A.M.C. Racing. A Greek driver just bought it.
https://www-sport24-gr.cdn.ampprojec...5%29+-+low.jpg
It´s NOT R4
It has mitsu/subaru engine.
Class name is different in each country, R-Lite in Finland.
There is that kind of Dytko Micra in Finland also.
To be more accurate there should be two versions of Dytko Micra in really very near future. Dytko Micra Proto and Dytko Micra R4. But I doubt they have finished the development of R4 version yet so the one on pictures is the "Proto" version.
Any news on price differences btw the R4 and Proto Micra?Quote:
Originally Posted by liposh
Already answered many times in this thread and usually it was You who asked about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Could a driver build his own car, as the old R4 from Colin Mcrae
Attachment 1690
Does the shell have to look like a production car, as long as it is safe and secure enough?
No, there is no class allowing such prototype cars on the internation level.
Riku Tahko is "building" new MINI R4
body will be made in Poland (is there others than Dytko?) and tecnical assembly in Finland.
Car is up for rent in 2019 and Tahko himself will drive with it 2020 in Finnish Championship and WRC Finland.
R4 is allowed Finland 2019 in same class than "N4" (lancer/impreza)
Yes, apart from DytkoQuote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
http://www.sport.dytko.pl/?setlang=en
there are at least 2 other companies that build proto cars in Poland:
Stec Motorsport (Bryan Bouffier drove their car in Rally Barborka):
http://www.stecmotorsport.eu/index.p...d-fiesta-proto
and Evolve Motorsport (Mikko Hirvonen drove their car in Rally Barborka):
http://www.evolve-motorsport.com/fabia/
According to this article from July Mini R4 is built by Evolve Motorsport:
https://wrc.net.pl/dlaczego-samochod...inki-specjalne
@Ryan_Champion:
Really interesting day testing the Oreca-developed R4, thanks to @ASMmotorsport for the opportunity. This test car has now done an impressive 5000km with no issues! https://t.co/FdNbnJJQ4C
https://scontent.fopo1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...40&oe=5CA6CAAB
Milano Racing Fiat 500X R4 under construction; more pics on www.facebook.com/TeamMilanoRacing/
Are there any stats on how many kits Oreca have sold per date?
Video of MR500X by Bruno Zagatoï: https://youtu.be/zl7DKN4moyo
Nice, looks definitely faster and more spectacular than any gr.N car.
Yep, it looks interesting, especially for a first test. Hope they sell well and other tuners will soon follow Milano Racing example. Fingers crossed.