WRC Testing

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Originally Posted by Rally Power

Aren't you being a drama queen? Tragic rally accidents can happen even with a Fiat 500.

Again, the risk increase is manageable if spectator control, driver eligibility and route selection standards get a proper attention, as I believe they’ll get.

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Of course tragic accidents happen, but WRC in current state can't handle one.

But that's not the only problem here, for me the Golden age of rallying was around 1999-2007 when the Cars were easily recognizable, they looked incredible on the stages going sideways, flying, they were fast enough and loud. There was many drivers who were able to fight for the victories, we had people who just drove tarmac or gravel events.

We're just getting further away from that. What I have heard about aero kits for next years, cars are almost un-reconizable from their road car ones with their massive wings.
Now with DTM like cars which are too dangerous to give to someone who haven't had enough practice with them. I don't know how we're going to have new talent to rise from R5's to new WRC's. This will only lead to a situation where people like Camilli will rise since they have butt load of money and real talent to quit since they have no way to reach to the top.
Fingers grossed for Lappi, would be a shame if VW situation is going to fk up his WRC seat for next year, which would add to even more to my case about wrong turns on the future of the sport.

And you as a Portuguese should tell us others how to handle spectators since it's so well under control in there -.-

With increased downforce and active diffs will be more difficult for the cars to go off

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Originally Posted by stefanvv

With increased downforce and active diffs will be more difficult for the cars to go off

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Im not sure if it's going to work like that. There is more to the car which is going to make drivers to try even harder, drivers are always trying their hardest which eventually is going to lead someone to go over the limit.
Crashes happen even in 100hp 2wd rally cars, but when you add 300 more horsepower and a massive aero kit to it, the crash which might be happening is going to be a massive one. That's a sad fact.

Edit: Also better cars wont prevent the fact that car failures can always happen.

Meeke wales test 9
its really ugly.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwwsTOfWgAIj5Vi.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwxZhv2W8AEpyqV.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwxZhv0XAAAd6Tt.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwxZhv1W8AE-CZg.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwxZhv1XgAAyfpS.jpg


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwxV8e8WQAExasV.jpg

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Originally Posted by Essaj

Im not sure if it's going to work like that. There is more to the car which is going to make drivers to try even harder, drivers are always trying their hardest which eventually is going to lead someone to go over the limit.
Crashes happen even in 100hp 2wd rally cars, but when you add 300 more horsepower and a massive aero kit to it, the crash which might be happening is going to be a massive one. That's a sad fact.

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I still don't get it. When you go let's say 50 and go off how the crash of 400 hp car will be massive? Why would it be different if the car had 100 hp only? Top speed of 2017 cars will be probably the same because of that bigger aero kits.

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Originally Posted by Essaj

Im not sure if it's going to work like that. There is more to the car which is going to make drivers to try even harder, drivers are always trying their hardest which eventually is going to lead someone to go over the limit.

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Speed will increase that's for sure, but also the car stability. No one knows for sure until we see it in action, but I believe there won't be a problem, just an opinion, as is Yours.

Cars usually don't crash in a straight line. Since cornering speed will be higher next year due to more HPs and aero, if an accident happens, it'll be for sure bigger than today.

Rally accidents will always happen. That's inevitable. Will it be bigger than todays, hmm I guess we don't know yet. How do You define bigger?

I'll make a quick example:

Today you can drive round corner #1 at, let's say, 100km/h. You try at 101km/h and you'll crash.

Tomorrow you'll be able to drive round that very same corner #1 at 120km/h. You try at 121km/h and you'll crash.

So the chance to have a bigger impact will be higher tomorrow than it is today.

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Originally Posted by smsgrafica

I'll make a quick example:

Today you can drive round corner #1 at, let's say, 100km/h. You try at 101km/h and you'll crash.

Tomorrow you'll be able to drive round that very same corner #1 at 120km/h. You try at 121km/h and you'll crash.

So the chance to have a bigger impact will be higher tomorrow than it is today.

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Let me make a quick estimation:

How do You define the risk increase for the car, crew, trees (I presume the spectators will stay well in safe as of now though, more or less)? I see only risk for trees with bigger chance to be chopped off (this isn't much of a waste if we consider the Amazon forest danger every day).

You're joking, aren't you? The higher the impact speed, the higher the risk of injuries...

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Originally Posted by smsgrafica

You're joking, aren't you? The higher the impact speed, the higher the risk of injuries...

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No I'm quite serious actually. Cars will be wider and additionally strengthened. That will decrease the significance of the impact, but my question remains - how do You define how bigger the impact is in that case?

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Originally Posted by stefanvv

I see only risk for trees with bigger chance to be chopped off (this isn't much of a waste if we consider the Amazon forest danger every day).

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So are you saying that next years cars will just chop the tree in half if it hits them? We do have sad examples from impacts with trees and they aint beautiful.. I don't even want to bring them up more than this...

Wow, just wow... It's basic physics... But I'll make it easy for you, with two extreme videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oPVESVlhPU
80km/h impact with a 1999 Ford Focus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7dG9UlzeFM
200km/h impact with a 1999 Ford Focus

OK, nothing more to say.

At least there are accident data recorders to help work out what went wrong.
https://www.fiafoundation.org/our-wo...data-recorders

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Originally Posted by Essaj

And you as a Portuguese should tell us others how to handle spectators since it's so well under control in there -.-

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No idea what -.- means, but I’ve no problems saying how spectators control works in Rally de Portugal: only real rally fans watch it!

After the 80’s a strong safety campaign was launched and spectator’s behavior started to improve, but the real advance was in 2007, when we got back WRC. The organizers were pretty clear: in order to keep WRC in Portugal, spectators should be faultless and follow the strict safety rules.

It wasn’t easy to get used to access roads blocked, restricted spectators areas or being constantly upset by dozens of marshals and police agents, but we all understood those rules were necessary and now we happily obey them. The hooligans, the village idiots or any of the others non Petrolheads that couldn’t comply leaved, and no one misses them.

If it was possible in Portugal to turn wild crowds into responsible spectators, for sure it can be done everywhere.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0...f7&oe=58C86837

The increased risk with higher cornering speed is indisputable as it's pure physics and near non existent strenghtening of the body (the prototypes seem to have pretty common rollcages) makes no difference in comparison to the kinetic energy growing with a square of speed. On the other hand I am quite sure that the works drivers can handle it.

Main cause of tragic accidents is anyway violent rear-axle rebound on bumps or jumps and that's something where WRC cars are actually pretty safe due to long travel and very good dampers. Gr.N cars with very small travel and driven rear axle or anything with torsion beam rear axle is a lot worse in such situations.

Btw, isn’t the criticism on ’17 cars a bit over the head?

Till recently everybody felt WRC cars were annoying and they should be replaced. When the first ’17 protos tested, many found them still too close to current cars; later it was said they would be glued to the road and provide no spectacle; now the problem is that they’re too fast…

Jesus…rally fans are hard to please!

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Originally Posted by Rally Power

No idea what -.- means, but I’ve no problems saying how spectators control works in Rally de Portugal: only real rally fans watch it!

After the 80’s a strong safety campaign was launched and spectator’s behavior started to improve, but the real advance was in 2007, when we got back WRC. The organizers were pretty clear: in order to keep WRC in Portugal, spectators should be faultless and follow the strict safety rules.

It wasn’t easy to get used to access roads blocked, restricted spectators areas or being constantly upset by dozens of marshals and police agents, but we all understood those rules were necessary and now we happily obey them. The hooligans, the village idiots or any of the others non Petrolheads that couldn’t comply leaved, and no one misses them.

If it was possible in Portugal to turn wild crowds into responsible spectators, for sure it can be done everywhere.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0...f7&oe=58C86837

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Yeah I know it's been way better after 80's like it's been anywhere else. Something still makes me think that Portugals spectator safety is not really up there but to be honest I havent been able to follow rally portugal in a few years. But I do remember that atleast in Fafe (might have been when it was run separately from WRC event) the spectators were still in pretty mental places.

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Originally Posted by Rally Power

Btw, isn’t the criticism on ’17 cars a bit over the head?

Till recently everybody felt WRC cars were annoying and they should be replaced.

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Yeah, they should have been replaced by segment D cars. Now I'm trolling.

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Originally Posted by EstWRC

dont listen it with your headphones, you will be deaf

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What are You talking about? It is on different planet with different gravity (possibly a black hole nearby).

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Originally Posted by stefanvv

Yeah, they should have been replaced by segment D cars. Now I'm trolling.

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For the competition and more drivers to compete to each other R5 should be better. Agree with Mirek on this.

Tänak https://youtu.be/tDFo7uWq53c
https://youtu.be/4jgwey8ecWI

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Originally Posted by Mirek

The increased risk with higher cornering speed is indisputable as it's pure physics and near non existent strenghtening of the body (the prototypes seem to have pretty common rollcages) makes no difference in comparison to the kinetic energy growing with a square of speed. On the other hand I am quite sure that the works drivers can handle it.

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Divided by 2 to be more precise:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/edcanvas-upl...eticEnergy.gif
This is the graph of similar weight vehicle (Tesla roadster):
http://www.solarjourneyusa.com/Pictu...rgyvsspeed.jpg

So if we take an example of speed increase from 100 to 110 at some corner, which seems realistic, that's about 0.03 kWh. Can't the wider and strengthened doors handle to swallow it? The rollcage is the same ok.

Stop it already, enough.

I don't think it's a case of if they'll swallow it. It's a fact that the impacts will be bigger, since the cars will be quicker. So there you'll have more danger to hurt someone.

IMHO the cars should drive more spectacularly, not being quicker in the corners.

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Originally Posted by stefanvv

So if we take an example of speed increase from 100 to 110 at some corner, which seems realistic, that's about 0.03 kWh. Can't the wider and strengthened doors handle to swallow it? The rollcage is the same ok.

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What matters is the change not the absolute number which tells You exactly nothing (I am sure You have no idea what structure You need to dissipate 0,03 kWh - so have I). In relative numbers a WRC car with the crew going 110 km/h instead of 100 km/h has 21% higher kinetic energy and that is what matters.

Anyway we are way off topic and I agree with Rally Power that the safety factor is pushed way too far in here especially since we have no relevant information. Throwing some bullshit numbers around and acting like we know what they mean is good for nothing.

Fast forwarded videos like this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-1f-_Z58GE aren't good for something either.

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Originally Posted by Mirek

Throwing some bullshit numbers around and acting like we know what they mean is good for nothing.

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Never usually stops anyone on internet forums though! :p

Ott: https://youtu.be/tDFo7uWq53c

Snow conditions: https://twitter.com/traxx_wif/status/796298692198334468

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Originally Posted by stefanvv

Fast forwarded videos like this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-1f-_Z58GE aren't good for something either.

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Looks natural to me

It's the Youtube high frame rate ;)

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Originally Posted by stefanvv

Fast forwarded videos like this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-1f-_Z58GE aren't good for something either.

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LOOOOL

Its just a 60 fps 1080p video, its how the WRC should be on TV. But instead those useless trash dogs prefer to force feed us their 480p 30fps crap and consider advancement in TV a more comprehensive coverage of the award ceremony, but if the simpleton welsh like it then why not ?

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Originally Posted by Franky

It's the Youtube high frame rate ;)

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That's it, I don't play with youtube settings much, but should consider it for the future.

So, Wilson is reading this forum.. couple of days ago we were talking about asphalt experience of some drivers.. next day we have testing videos of the same persons on asphalt :P

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw14sQjX...jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw14sQmX...jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw14sRLX...jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw1twEmW...jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw1txLUW...jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw1txLQW...jpg&name=large

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lce9jd_wWc

Rally Sweden Monte Carlo style :) ...great test for Tänak, basically had all conditons on both days like Monte has.