So two of the three teams are testing permanently 100 km from my home :D
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So two of the three teams are testing permanently 100 km from my home :D
Anyone heard where M-Sport will be this year?
Greystoke?Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaruNorway
I read that as "Castle Greyskull".Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Should I worry?
Jos Verstappen drives the Rally of Haspengouw, the first round of the Belgian Rally Championship (BRC). JV drives a Citroën C3 R5 with navigator Kris Botson next to him. The intention is that he will also participate in some WRC rallies later this year. Perhaps later Max will also follow his father in this...
I'll look forward to your reports :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
So the thing is that the "Sébastien Ogier: The Final Season" documentary is currently available only in France on Explore channel via AppleTV app. If someone has AppleTV account then maybe you can try with VPN and see if it works. For others the documentary will be available worldwide on Red Bull TV this spring.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1988senna
Yes. Plus they already tested the Puma in Finland for fast gravel and snow conditions.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
We need to separate different kinds of testingQuote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
- Every rally has a PET, one day per driver per rally. So basically three days per rally in some European country. Not necessarily same country.
- The permanent testing area allows unlimited development tests, but usually these are not rally-by-rally PETs. Also the roads are very limited. The Finnish test sites seem to consist of small and fast forest roads, nothing very technical, rough or conversly nothing very wide. And of course no tarmac.
- The weight of permanent area development testing is smaller than previously because there is less homologation jokers and less things to develop (namely aero and center diff settings).
- Previously they had a numbered allocation of test days, meaning that you could skip testing, say, Portugal, and use two days for your Croatia test. But this is not possible anymore since last year with the new rule of allocated days per rally (although I'm not sure whether FIA sanctions doing a tarmac test for a gravel rally?), at least the testing days must be split evenly between the drivers who are participating in said rally.
- What they did last year was extra development testing for the new cars.
But as for M-Sport, I believe they still have their PET days for Rally Sweden available. Hyundai also visited Finland with the first iteration of i20 Rally1 in the summer.
...and if they use Barum for both ERC and WRC once a day?Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
I don't understand this post, but I think FIA/Promoter is looking forward to rotating rallies between ERC and WRC. It would increase the value of ERC by having old WRC events in the series and allow more rallies to be in the WRC event organizer "pool" but not sure if it will work out on the long run. Using a WRC organization to arrange an ERC event is shooting a fly with a cannon, as we say in Finland.Quote:
Originally Posted by CWJ
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/loube...-with-m-sport/
Loubet in a Puma from Croatia onwards
Croatia, Portugal, Italy, Estonia, Finland (or the to-be-confirmed event in August), Acropolis and Spain.
Sponsored driver but still a young one with some potential so not bad to see him having a half-time program.
Quite a bad year last year but M-Sport could benefit that he is not a rookie anymore to expect a step up from him.
Also good to see that we will have an interesting 4th M-Sport car for most of the year (Loeb in MC, Loubet for half of the season, it also lets one or two more rounds for Loeb).
Maybe not New Zealand and Japan considering the cost (+ Sweden with Bertelli) but probably all the rest
That won't happen anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by CWJ
He is quite talented driver, but he has chosen not the best way for progress in his career. He is making too big steps too early...Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny0405
Just stating that they also tested the PUMA in Finland before it was homologated and weren't restricted to Greystoke and the M-Sport Vehicle Evaluation Centre (as they are now).Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Hyundai have only tested the confirmed iteration of their I20 in France on ice/tarmac (until Neuville crashed it).
I don’t agree totally on this.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
It’s really difficult for a young guy to even reach the level of obtaining WRC/Rally1 drives in an official team and it’s all the more difficult now with only 2 manufacturers + M-Sport.
So, when you have an opportunity to obtain a good amount of drives, I think you have to take it. With Tidemand and other youngsters, we have seen that when you wait too long, one can never reach the main class.
The issue then is to show something in terms of consistency and, after that, showing some speed; the issue for a young guy is not to forget priorities.
I have the same idea about Camilli in 2016 even if, in his case, it was really early. The same for Fourmaux (but M-Sport was more cautious with him).
Here for Loubet, he had more than 10 drives to see what is the level of WRC cars. Now it is time to deliver and he has taken the best car for this.
Camilli, Fourmaux, Loubet -- same story. For all of them it was too early to step up so high... On the other hand Tidemand is quite different story...Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny0405
I can understand your opinion but still I do not agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
With such a low number of manufacturer drives, I cannot criticize a young driver that wants to take the opportunity because he may never have it again.
The only one in the list whose choice was maybe not good is Camilli stepping up in WRC with only one season of R5 whereas there were more manufacturers at that time.
+ the competition is really high in R5 so staying in R5 may be a stagnation (exactly what happen to Tidemand).
Staying in R5 longer may make you more ready for main class but it may also cause a drop in your rating among WRC teams and, later, they may not offer you the opportunity again.
TOYOTA GAZOO Racing WRC Challenge ProgramThree new drivers chosen to pursue their WRC dreams
https://toyotagazooracing.com/challe.../2022/0207-01/
take it with more than a pinch of salt, but in italy rumors are growing about a wrc comeback of stellantis with lancia brand.
they ll launch a completely ev delta in 2026, and are supposed to look very closely to the new 2025 regulation to join an elctric wrc with it.
tbh, seems very unlikely to me, first time i read of the delta story, but rumors about lancia comeback with an hybrid are getting loud.
I also heard about this, that Stellantis is looking to a WRC-project with one of the brands.Quote:
Originally Posted by wyler
Also østberg hinted about something was under disqussion in the Stellantis group.
But that can be other brands to.
Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk
Sounds like whoever started this rumour may think Lancia are relevant outside Italy.Quote:
Originally Posted by wyler
If they want to make it relevant again its history points to using the WRC. The electric 'Delta Integrale' coming to WRX got a lot of attention.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
I found a link - https://www.motor1.com/news/546508/l...outside-italy/Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
"The brand’s new CEO wants to reposition Lancia as a near-premium automaker aimed at customers with an average age of 55 with at least one child still at home", "will target potential customers and owners of brands such as Tesla, Volvo, and Mercedes-Benz’s EQ division"
I don't buy it, any of this.
You seem to think Lancia is relevant IN Italy. Lancia only makes the Ypsilon in Italy and it's not even popular. The relevance in Italy is the same as it is for other countries and their motorsport fans: the past glory of Delta, Rally 037, Stratos...Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
Lancia, owned by Fiat since 1969, had been pronounced dead by then-FCA supremo Sergio Marchionne back in 2014.
The death sentence, pronounced by the manager in his characteristically blunt language, seemingly left no doubts:
“We realized the Lancia brand has no appeal outside of Italy. It has no heritage neither in Europe nor in the U.S.”
source: https://medium.com/roadster-life/har...l-b20fbabd3c4d
they are reported to launch new line(s) of vehicles. delta ev in 2025 (most probably also a hy version before) and new ypsilon hy in 2024. private projects are revamping the delta (for rx) the stratos and the 037 (showed on montecarlo)Quote:
Originally Posted by focus206
stellantis has all the main motorsport championships covered but wrc, sure they have a lot of brands so maybe can be another one, but still is strongly rumored of a comeback. surely a comeback in wrc with a historic rally brand can be interesting (also to launch the new brand cars) and worthy from pr side (remember the hype on the rx delta and for the r4 kit audi i.e.)
plus, the big boss is competing in the historic rally in a stratos, so maybe the brand choice can also be a bit "emotional"
still the most interesting thing -if real- is that 2manus/3brands (lancia opel and renault) are looking at wrc from 2025.
true, but the supremo is now dead, and the new boss is running ss in a stratos, so...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
Marchionne didn't care for motorsport and this sentence reflects that. Lancia Ypsilons and the other few models didn't have appeal anywhere (but can you picture Marchionne saying that one of his brands didn't have appeal not even in the home country?), while in the rest of the world Lancia is known more or less only by motorsport fans. There's no much difference between in and outside of Italy about Lancia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
Where it is?Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
https://dirtfish.com/rally/renault-r...unch-timeline/
Renault Clio Rally3 coming in April 2023, good to see someone other than M-sport invest in that category.
reportedly (by latvala among others) also toyota has green light on rally3 while waiting for clarification about mild hybrid for rally 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
I think first ranking listing was supposed to be in AprilQuote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
Latvala said during Rally Finland 2021 that it's likely Toyota will make a Rally3 before Rally2, but it won't happen before second half of 2023 at earliest.Quote:
Originally Posted by wyler
At a quick glance, yes it might be like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
But if you are Stellantis and you want to launch a premium BEV product under one of your existing brands, Lancia is not a bad choice.
Volvo did this with Polestar and I expect others will follow suit.
If you go to the Stellantis website right now and select the Lancia brand, there is a large photo of all of their rally cars on the Lancia landing page. The photo is larger than the one for their current product.
This cannot be by mistake and looks to remind people of the story of Lancia, not the current underwhelming product offering.
The demographic who have a soft spot in their hearts for these cars are also likely to have the disposable income to buy one.
A re-imagined Beta or Delta would probably sell quite well, with the right kind of margin, if done in limited release alongside another decent product.
Audi is also considering to offer a re-imagined Sport Quattro so there has to be market interest for these cars.
A rally program to go along side would make sense depending on the amount of money Stellantis wanted to put into marketing it.
If I were Stellantis and wanted a solely EV premium brand, I'd start a new brand as there isn't one in their group to use for that purpose. I'd never heard of Polestar until a year or two ago and now I associate them with new EV technology, just like Tesla, another relatively new brand from nothing. Lancia will always be associated with being Italian and therefore unreliable, EV tech is too fresh for consumers to worry. Then there's the mafia image which I have from what I saw with my own eyes having spent time in Italy when I was younger. This is how branding works but this could all be my casual British racism shining through, so the question to ask yourselves is would you buy/lease/want a Lancia BEV? At product level let's be honest, they are going to be common platform cars to the other brands anyway which already include premium options - if they offer BEV options.Quote:
Originally Posted by OHL
They may sell a few Delta EVs to nostalgic bored 55 year olds (who won't help/kick their adult kids out the home), but it's such a tenuous link between an EV company of 2026 and the cars that went rallying 'back in the day'. It just sounds like corporate speak for raising expectations at this point. I don't agree WRC is right for a premium brand even. Peugeot have much better global appeal and just as much rally heritage and despite these rumours or intent, I believe that's more likely even if it were true Stellantis gets behind just one of their brands for WRC. As always I look forward to being proven wrong.
from italy. yes. definitely.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
lol okay, let's just shut down all Italian brands and the whole country then, because some people associate us with mafia. Which is a bit ironic coming from a Brit, after Anglo-Americans re-instated mafia rule in Sicily against Fascist Italy, but that's another story.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
Going back to serious talk, in terms of motorsport, Lancia would be a long awaited return by many - most younger fans all over the world have heard of the Delta, the Stratos and probably the Rally 037, especially thanks to Youtube and videogames.
In case Stellantis wants to make a EV brand, I wouldn't worry too much of having many potential customers avoiding EV Lancia because "ew Italian unrealiable pizza mafia mussolini car" stereotypes (if they have these stereotypes, they probably have some towards Peugeot too). There are way bigger aspects - if the car will be actually good, people's faith in EVs, etc.
I recently got a Skoda... hearing less and less people referring to it as a trash Eastern European car from behind the iron curtain. With that said, I don't care if it will be Lancia, Peugeot or somebody else, I just hope there will be a new manufacturer soon.