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Well Mikkelsen gets payed at Skoda I guess.
So he is maybe just realistic and knows that the ship of fighting for the championship and rally wins has sailed and it's just about making a living as a rally driver. After all rallying is a sport with a very narrow top, very few manage to get paid doing it.
They will pay but only for regular rally winners / Championship contenders. Sadly Breen showed it wasn't worth paying for potential.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
Mikkelsen isnt proven in a Rally1 car and I dont see him fighting for rally wins, let alone a Championship. He would have to bring big sponsors to get a drive.
https://www.rallyfish.co.uk/news/m-s...-rally1-return
Is Rallyfish reliable, never heard of them before?
I don't understand this "he haven't drive the Rally1 car" talk? Its not a F35 fighter plane...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Eighter you can drive a rally car, or you can not.
Mikkelsen is a proven winner, but he has been out of topclass a while.
The Hyundai was shit for him, and The Goat. He was close to win in the "shitröen" to.
Multiple wrc2 winner, lots of experience in lots of cars, he can win in the right car.
Not the WDC probably, but definitive rallies.
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I'm not convinced they ever have, even with Breen, but we're both unlikely to get provable answers on this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
The elite WRC drivers are at such a level in the Rally1 cars that I dont see anyone just coming in being able to match or beat them. Even Elfyn Evans with full experience struggled to adapt to the Yaris Rally1. And Tanak wasn't happy in either the i20 or the Puma and only his genius got wins in them.Quote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
M-Sport will only pay for the elite now or just maybe a young guy with massive potential, like Oliver Solberg.
Well they definitely paid Ogier, and this year, Tanak.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
Breen had a "two-year deal" so that sounds like he was paid, even if just a retainer and M-Sport funded everything else.
I agree all three of these got paid and had deals, and Lappi too, I just don't agree to M-Sport's cost, or that they are funding anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Perhaps can see this as an accounting detail, but the context here is I don't think the conversation that M-Sport might find budget to fight for wins and titles is a reflection of reality if the costs of enough (2) junior/novice drivers are being covered.
It was widely-believed that M.Wilson paid Ogier out of his own (MSport) money as it was too much to get from sponsors alone. The same is probably true of Tanak. He (they) were willing to do this as they were Champions and would bring Titles or at least rally wins, which was great for the company.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
Young drivers gain more from their Rally1 drives than they give back, hence they need to bring funding. The figures I've heard to run a Rally1 car run into £millions and someone has to pay it.
M-Sport team principal Richard Millener is confident that a young driver line-up it is planning for next year can be competitive in the World Rally Championship.
https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/...2024/10546030/
:DQuote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
As expected, it doesn't sound like Oliver Solberg's Monster backing is compatible with M-Sport's existing Red Bull deal.
Wasn't Rovanpera also sponsored by Monster, then he turned to Red Bull?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Fourmaux has only Red Bull logo on helmet, not on his car anymore. Could be this last season of his partnership with Red Bull?
Loubet also. When his Red Bull contract expires? Is it only one year deal? Would Red Bull backup a driver that is only good for crashing car?
Possibly, but I believe Ogier had a VW contract which they either paid out or were involved in this. If he wanted another payday from Red Bull he would need to keep active, and they might also have been involved in this. Toyota and Hyundai were lined up, the only other option was Citroen who had a star driver and a title sponsor. M-Sport had two never-wons and no Ford.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
More likely they earned from Tanak in 2023 than they paid him.
I think you have to differentiate between Red Bull athlete and Red Bull sponsored car. Red Bull athletes have RB only on their helmet, while Red Bull also sponsors M-Sport's Rally1 program, so their full time drivers have RB logo on the car. I would bet that in Japan, Fourmaux will have RB on the car again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Managarium
Thank you for clarification.
I've always wandered why Toyota doesn't have Red Bull logo, while all Toyota drivers have Red Bull helmets.
Anyway... I think that M-Sport Red Bull sponsorship is over. Red Bull is always associated with successful athletes and teams in any sport. In WRC they were with Citroen and VW at their peek.
M-Sport had potentially good drivers in 2022 and world class driver this year.
I don't think that Red Bull wants to be associated with crashes and technical misery.
Difference here is Red Bull is aligned to the success of the series, not just one team's success. If they walk away from M-Sport it must mean they found another third team or M-Sport found a backer. Doesn't appear that these people exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Managarium
I think you're overlooking that Red Bull are the Promoter of WRC, so should have a vested interest in ensuring that M-Sport are a somewhat serious third team/manufacturer. If they're going to channel money their way as Promoter, it makes sense to have them in their colours. Plus, look how many guys are on Red Bull pocket money deals, it isn't just the Sebastiens of the rally world...Quote:
Originally Posted by Managarium
Horrible season.
I think the puma is the worst car they have built regarding reliability, only one joker used during the season for bigger update and nothing more
And the sad thing is that the next season promises to be even more worse with their lineup
There is a lot of talk about young drivers having a possibility in M-sport to drive a Rally1 car. I am not sure if this is even a good decision regarding their career. It is difficult to estimate their speed, if they are given an underdeveloped car and don't have enough amount of testing before the events. In these situations the times are not coming, they are being pushed over their limits and accidents start to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Compare Breen in the Puma to this years Sweden - a completely different driver. For example if next year would Mikkelsen drive the Puma, he would probably be worse than Tänak this year. Then there would be an ongoing discussion how he is not worthy a Rally1, he is slow and there are better drivers out there.
If I had money to buy a rally1 drive I would take the spare Toyota when it's available.Quote:
Originally Posted by trykmann
I think things are not that simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by seb_sh
Indeed, except a very few professional drivers paid for it, all drivers are bringing money to run, either personal or through a sponsorship; the question is more about how much money do you have so it defines what you can do.
For Toyota, it’s only customer-stuff car so if you want to have the car, you have to pay all the costs (and probably even a bit of extra); else Toyota don’t run the car.
For M-Sport, at least the first two cars, it’s different; M-Sport will run 2 cars anyway because they want to keep their status of manufacturer… but they ask drivers to bring also some money (or through sponsorship) to contribute to the budget of running the team but not paying all the costs.
To sum up, for a young driver, if you want to drive a Toyota, you have to pay all the costs + an extra.
If you want to drive one of the 2 M-Sport manufacturer cars, you may only pay 50% of the costs of running the car (M-Sport managing the rest).
Well, in the end, it means having a M-Sport car is probably 2 or 3 times cheaper than having a Toyota… well, it’s a big difference of budget needed, all the more than M-Sport young drivers are not biggest talent in general (Greensmith, Fourmaux, Loubet, Munster, …) … and in addition to that, when it comes to Toyota, you can’t totally decide what’s you program as it’s up to Ogier and teams decisions mainly. in the end, Ogier only miss 5 rallies this season so it’s perfectly understandable that the car was poorly rented; I think the only guy who could have an interest and the sponsorship needed to rent it is Solberg (as Ogier is not there for snow and fast gravel rallies).
If Fourmaux and Loubet are two main drivers next year even reaching the top ten and finish the event will be hard to achieve. Only hope to get some results that Mikkelsen is there.
Mikkelsen will DEFINITELY stay with Škoda.
The problem is the 'bottom line' ie. money.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
M-Sport just hasn't got it as a part-factory team and cant compete with the multiple €millions the huge corporations of Toyota and Hyundai can throw at their WRC cars & teams.
They were juuuust able to hang in there with the WRC car, but the Rally1 era has exacerbated the problem massively with all the complications of hybrid. Their future at this level of the sport looks more bleak than I can ever remember. :(
It is a problem with 2,5 manu's in the WRC, i see 2 scenarios
1: keep todays, hopefully 1 more attend, but probably not, the WRC serms not that healty.
2: Run Rally2's as topclass, the manu's (probably) leave, less money, less spectacle.
But, we can get rid of the manu-rule to build cars, some serious private tuners will build and run cars, some of them on behalf of manu's, others with some support of importers.
The WRC will probably run more like ERC, more european-based championship, but it will be more interesting sporting-wise.
We will probably loose the WRC+/RallyTV, or will RB be involved without the manu's involvment?
I think so, they sponsor much smaller and less interesting sports than rally with live broadcasts:)
I don't know, but i'm not shure it is total darkness if the manu's leave.
Maybe the cars has to be a C-segment based set of rules instead of the B-segment(yaris/skoda) they use today?
And i don't think Hyundai and Toyota just leave, maybe downscaling a bit, but i don't think todays WRC is good for marketing anyway.
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I just can’t believe what you have written point two onwards
Good for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
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The world car was much more complicated than the Rally1 with a no frills spec motor generator unit. It's a box that the teams install and programmed a few maps for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
The EV Puma is coming in 2024.
Will Ford give some support to a fully electric rally class or Rally2 - electric hybrid (sub-class)(with BTCC type units) in the future? (Something that Citroen might be interested in doing too)
BTCC YouTube (The BTCC unit inputs the front gearbox)
Welcome to the BTCC Hybrid Era ⚡️
M-Sport Ltd YouTube
WRC HYBRID �� EXPLAINED | Puma ��*⬛ Hybrid Rally1 Powertrain ⚙️ Explained | #MSPORTERS
But the Puma has been so unreliable and many times it's the hybrid that's been the problem. Maybe not the unit itself but the install or operation.Quote:
Originally Posted by becher
And the costs have gone up to plus there was the development and testing.
Can we see a part time program to Loeb too?
Loeb is a factory Renault Alliance driver now. It's very little chance they allow him to drive an opposing brand's car.
That one-off Dakar is a Prodrive job; not a budget, non-performance, city car brand famous for having no frills like motorsport. Loeb plays for pay, whoever is paying. Seen him drive across many brands in recent years.Quote:
Originally Posted by macebig
Loeb in a Clio Rally3 in a couple of rallies would be perfect!Quote:
Originally Posted by macebig
He will drive Dakar with Dacia(Renault-owned) in 2025.. so everything correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
I can't see Loeb doing some rounds with Puma being useful anymore..
Renault is bringing back the RS01 for Loeb to compete in GT3 events,so I would think his deal is pretty tight. Maybe if RB sees interest in WRC diminish they will intervene and work something out. But, that's a pipedream atm.
https://www.upload.ee/image/16001715...58_Dolphin.jpg
Will we see some testing videos soon for next year?
No idea and I’m waiting since Japan that dirtfish would write something already about the teams preseason plans
According to some guys on twitter Neuville was testing in south France last weekend