[WRC] 80. Rally Poland 2024

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Originally Posted by macebig

That's impossible. You can't change car specifications mid-rally. Scrutineering ain't gonna allow it. Plus, I would think Sesks' Puma runs different engine maps to cover up the hybrid boost difference in a way. They aren't gonna re program the ECU or change it. It's a pure fantasy.

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Exactly. Sounds like overiptimistic nonsense. But, i think Malcolm is already receiving calls from high-end private teams around the Europe. M-Sport business should boom now. However, we do not know the real difference of the hybrid vs non- on slower rallies, also tarmac. Acceleration difference you could see on SSS start. Every launch is about up to 1 sec, then every 1-3rd gear corner with good grip, another sec or so. In total it should be min a sec/km. Still, Martins has done massive promotion to WRC, M-Sport and R1- cars.

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Originally Posted by WRCStan

Can I clarify this with you? Sure it's about priority rather than national cars (article 12.3)? I don't see anything about priority like this in the rules, and obviously a national car would make a crew non-priority, but a Rally2 or 3 can be non-priority too but well within the list of 12.4 which I consider as 'any car' - ie any FIA car.

12.3.1 Cars homologated or approved by the ASN of the organising country will be permitted to take part in WRC events if stipulated in the supplementary regulations, without eligibility to score Championship points.

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I would say:
9.1 CRITERIA FOR PRIORITY DRIVERS

FIRST PRIORITY DRIVERS (P1) Drivers of Rally1 cars complying with the 2024 Appendix J, Art. 262 when

- Entered by a Manufacturer or a WRC Team and nominated to score points or
- Endorsed by the FIA.

So i would say that as he is on the entry list as P1, it must have been agreed with the FIA, who i guess are also curious how the car would perform.

It doesn’t look like there were national cars allowed to enter the rally, so maybe they used the above as a bit of a fudge?

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Originally Posted by AndersX

Exactly. Sounds like overiptimistic nonsense. But, i think Malcolm is already receiving calls from high-end private teams around the Europe. M-Sport business should boom now. However, we do not know the real difference of the hybrid vs non- on slower rallies, also tarmac. Acceleration difference you could see on SSS start. Every launch is about up to 1 sec, then every 1-3rd gear corner with good grip, another sec or so. In total it should be min a sec/km. Still, Martins has done massive promotion to WRC, M-Sport and R1- cars.

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I guess it might depend how much the car costs without the hybrid? Surely still a lot. Even a set of bumpers for a WRC car cost tens of thousands of euros :crazy:

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Originally Posted by denkimi

But he has shown that hybrids add absolutely nothing but costs. Although everyone who wanted to know that already did. They should get rid of them but retain the name. Those who care don't know the difference anyway.

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i cant stop thinking this watching this rally. a rookie running a car without the hybrid with + 100kg of ballast is doing this amazing job. shoot on the foot for the wrc haha the hybrids is literally useless.

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Originally Posted by saco0o

i cant stop thinking this watching this rally. a rookie running a car without the hybrid with + 100kg of ballast is doing this amazing job. shoot on the foot for the wrc haha the hybrids is literally useless.

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I assumed before the first event for them that the battery wouldn’t be used on stages, but would be enough to power them on all road sections. Not just enough for 10km or whatever it is.

The main reason for adding hybrid was because the manus (Ford and Hyundai) demanded it to stay in WRC. More precisely demanded that the cars will be hybrid without caring about the hybrid specs at all.

The main goal of the rule set then done by FIA was to keep the car behavior as similar as without it, to be able to use the same petrol engines and to keep the costs on same level as 2017 cars (looks like the last part failed).

So the hybrid was added as a autonomous automatic unit that the drivers can't directly control, with a small battery and even more importantly strictly limited levels of energy use (limiting the amount of regen as well).
The goal was never to make the car as fast as possible or to make the hybrid radically change the driving.

Such a shame we didn't get to see Tanak all weekened, could watch his onboards all day!

Crazy raw speed from Tanak

Amazing Ott

When one got nothing to lose, it's easier to go extremely flat out.

Puncture for Mikkelsen...

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Originally Posted by jonkka

When one got nothing to lose, it's easier to go extremely flat out.

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Well... There is quite a lot sunday points on the table...

Mikkelsen puncture on rear RR

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Originally Posted by bandit12

Well... There is quite a lot sunday points on the table...

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And a lot more saturday points to lose if one bins it.

Mikkelsen drops to 4th, just 6,7s ahead of Neuville with safe margins for Hyundai to make a natural looking swap between them if they so want.

Its me or Thierry didnt perform well this weekend.

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Originally Posted by spyros

Its me or Thierry didnt perform well this weekend.

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I think the last years good results on high speed events were only because of lack of competition.

McErlean crashed in the finish line :/

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Originally Posted by jonkka

Mikkelsen drops to 4th, just 6,7s ahead of Neuville with safe margins for Hyundai to make a natural looking swap between them if they so want.

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I wonder what ruleset you are following. Definitely not the current one.

Reason for the puncture https://x.com/ewrcresults/status/180...C1kV5QC61vX5Xg

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Originally Posted by EstWRC

Reason for the puncture https://x.com/ewrcresults/status/180...C1kV5QC61vX5Xg

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Interesting how massive it looks front the outside compared to how innocent it looked on the onboard shown on the stream.

A real shame for McErlean, his pace has really improved this year, I wans't expecting it to be honest but great to see!

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Originally Posted by mknight

I wonder what ruleset you are following. Definitely not the current one.

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Old man with old brains and old thoughts. You got me... :snif:

Oh dear, what a sh***y ending of the PS...

Edit: Ott just confirmed my thoughts.

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Originally Posted by J4MIE

I would say:
9.1 CRITERIA FOR PRIORITY DRIVERS

FIRST PRIORITY DRIVERS (P1) Drivers of Rally1 cars complying with the 2024 Appendix J, Art. 262 when

- Entered by a Manufacturer or a WRC Team and nominated to score points or
- Endorsed by the FIA.

So i would say that as he is on the entry list as P1, it must have been agreed with the FIA, who i guess are also curious how the car would perform.

It doesn’t look like there were national cars allowed to enter the rally, so maybe they used the above as a bit of a fudge?

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I didn't think either of us were on about Sesks. At first you said non-priority crews can't score points, that statement alone I didn't agree with.

But on Sesks: it isn't a bit of a fudge, it's in black and white.

The uncomfortable silence after Tänaks comments on Rallytv was funny.

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Originally Posted by trykmann

The uncomfortable silence after Tänaks comments on Rallytv was funny.

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Missed the comment, what did he say?

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Originally Posted by mknight

Missed the comment, what did he say?

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"Shame for the sport having such stages with shicane after shicane... and Poland did it again."

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Originally Posted by mknight

The main reason for adding hybrid was because the manus (Ford and Hyundai) demanded it to stay in WRC. More precisely demanded that the cars will be hybrid without caring about the hybrid specs at all.

The main goal of the rule set then done by FIA was to keep the car behavior as similar as without it, to be able to use the same petrol engines and to keep the costs on same level as 2017 cars (looks like the last part failed).

So the hybrid was added as a autonomous automatic unit that the drivers can't directly control, with a small battery and even more importantly strictly limited levels of energy use (limiting the amount of regen as well).
The goal was never to make the car as fast as possible or to make the hybrid radically change the driving.

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Yep. Now that I look back, I wonder whether it was all worth it, and I think "Maybe". On the one hand, it pushed costs up and didn't do a whole lot. On the other hand, we still have a 2.5-team championship instead of a 1.5 or 1.0-team championship. That's assuming Ford and Hyundai weren't bluffing, which I am willing to consider.

And would leaving the hybrids off bring in other teams? Skoda wasn't going to enter either way. Citroen was verging on leaving, not joining. As for local importers building cars on space frames and so forth, I think it would take a lot more than dropping hybrids to make that happen (maybe 2027...).

So I can't blame anyone who felt that "it seemed like a good idea at the time". Desperate times, desperate measures.

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Originally Posted by Morte66

Yep. Now that I look back, I wonder whether it was all worth it, and I think "Maybe". On the one hand, it pushed costs up and didn't do a whole lot. On the other hand, we still have a 2.5-team championship instead of a 1.5 or 1.0-team championship. That's assuming Ford and Hyundai weren't bluffing, which I am willing to consider.

And would leaving the hybrids off bring in other teams? Skoda wasn't going to enter either way. Citroen was verging on leaving, not joining. As for local importers building cars on space frames and so forth, I think it would take a lot more than dropping hybrids to make that happen (maybe 2027...).

So I can't blame anyone who felt that "it seemed like a good idea at the time". Desperate times, desperate measures.

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To make it short, like many people said here, that’s what happens when you have no clear vision for the sport, that’s how it looks, dragging their feet, not making decisions on time…etc.

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Originally Posted by CeskyOndra

Why Sesks won't win in Latvia? The speed is there, the knowledge also. Others don't know the stages basically. It is a hot take, but for me, he is favorite for atleast podium

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Didn't study the WRC rally stages in detail, but Kalle surely should have some stage knowledge? He won the Latvian R2 class championship in 2015 and next year, in 2016 (when one year older Sesks won the Latvian junior championship) Kalle won the Latvian rally championship in main class (at the age of 16).

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Originally Posted by trykmann

The uncomfortable silence after Tänaks comments on Rallytv was funny.

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what was the comments?

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Originally Posted by Bumbul

Didn't study the WRC rally stages in detail, but Kalle surely should have some stage knowledge? He won the Latvian R2 class championship in 2015 and next year, in 2016 (when one year older Sesks won the Latvian junior championship) Kalle won the Latvian rally championship in main class (at the age of 16).

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Kalle has shown this weekend that recces, preparation, stage experience and local knowledge are overrated.

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Originally Posted by Sulland

what was the comments?

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Take a look at #468 ;)

Ott looking pretty good so far vs Neuville

Close fight for 2nd in WRC2 still ongoing.

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Originally Posted by Negaiss

Information is circulating in Latvian ralllying comunitty, that Sesks's car will be upgraded with Hybrid unit for Sunday.

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Same thing happened in Estonia when forumers started to post hearsay and complete horse fecies out of their own excitement. I call it BS and rules don't allow this.

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Originally Posted by Corcaíoch

Such a shame we didn't get to see Tanak all weekened, could watch his onboards all day!

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He would have won easily IMO

I don’t agree with the guys here who say testing and etc is overrated. Look how long it took for Kalle to get up to speed here and he still isn’t the up to 100% or the Kalle we used to know and he said the same in interviews.

Despite the puncture Mikkelsens performance has been amazing. I had written him off after the tarmac rounds but really nice to see he still has it.

Sesks has been equally impressive.


Neuville back to his usual form on fast gravel rallies

Thanks to the new points system we have this treat of watching Tanak this morning. Amazing stuff.

Amazing to watch these Tänaks onboards today

On absolute limit but still in control over the car