I could argue a lot but it takes too much time. You have not been lately in Oslo cos otherwise this few immigrant stuff not make sense to me :DQuote:
Originally Posted by olemann
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I could argue a lot but it takes too much time. You have not been lately in Oslo cos otherwise this few immigrant stuff not make sense to me :DQuote:
Originally Posted by olemann
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To both of you:
Off topic and pointless posts.
Well, Norway is a beautiful country, that's true. However, I can't agree with you concerning the immigrant topic. Probably that's due to the fact that you don't have much contact to any of them in your country while I have a lot in Germany. Multiculturalism is a nice thing if it works (and that's mostly the case here). But sorry, that's off topic :D.Quote:
Originally Posted by olemann
Back to Andreas Mikkelsen: I would be very surprised if he can't find any seat next year. At least one of them should be available (Hänninen), if not even two or three (Ogier, Lefebvre..?).
Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
http://i.imgur.com/cjL1NNi.gif
Been there. Expensive, cold and full of herrings. Redeeming feature? Tucked away in a corner of Europe to itself so don't have to go there again.Quote:
Originally Posted by olemann
p.s. Your oil is running out.
I see you're from India. At least we're not so poor we have to try and scam people claiming we are from Microsoft... :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Grundo Farb
This is getting ridiculous. Can mods please remove offtopic?
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I've been reading a lot of rubbish on the forum lately, but this tops it. Didn't really expect such stupid reaction from you. Anyway, all this nonsense of the last posts doesn't belong in this thread, nor anywhere else on this forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaruNorway
Yep, thread is about Mikkelsen.
Btw, why are people assuming that it’s him that doesn’t want to get fully committed with Citroen? Veiby’s words sounded much like a pressure call for Matton to make up his mind and give Mikkelsen a permanent seat, at least till the end of the season.
Matton still has 3 drivers under contract and surely he’s expecting to see how Meeke will return after the break; besides ’18 drivers market isn’t open yet (all waiting for Ogier moves) so why would he sign Mikkelsen if more capable lead drivers can become soon available?
It's pretty depressing reading this forum these days so thought I'de cheer things up with some friendly banter. I hit the nail on the head though and you know it. ;) Move along.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
what a pathetic excuse...whats so depressing here lately?
Speaking about MIkkelsen, i dont know why but i have a feeling it will be very hard for Mikkelsen to find a seat for next year too. i see Citroen his only chance.
I was thinking the same. If his results with Citroen are always at the bottom 5 he might not get a seat especially when guys like Sunninen are available.
Posts like this. The whole Mikkelsen story is getting pretty tiresome.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
I see no reason as to why Toyota would not hire him? I'm sure they are smart enough to not consider his results with the Citroen when choosing drivers for next year.
Of course he's bottom 5 when he's not driving the car over the limit.
Hiring Tänak. Or Ogier?Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaruNorway
When it comes down to Suninen it's more up to whether they want a young promising talent or someone that has already won events.
so, if i and others have different opinion from yours about Mikkelsen then this forum is depressing? Way to go dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaruNorway
if he had shown Meekelike pace then i would hire him if i were team principal....but being slower then Lefebvre on one of his favourite events doesnt do any good for him even when considering the car.
He was spoiled by VW, not faced extreme hardships for getting his career going like Paddon, Tänak, etc. Now when things finally got tough for him, he seems lost.
You don't know much about Mikkelsen do you? Look up 2009, not an experience i want to go through again.Quote:
Originally Posted by mmm
The statement was meant for both imo. It tells other teams he is still interested in other options and at same time puts pressure on Matton to give an offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
As to the "market", we actually don't know anything. Could be that some drivers have already signed.
It's very unlikely we will get any knews about drivers changing teams before the end of the season (or atleast until titles are decided). Only thing we could expect announced before that is contract extensions at same team.
He was faster than Lefebvre on pure speed, that is a fact, in very much same way as Lappi was faster than Hanninen in Portugal. Both ended behind in the overall results though for multiple reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
We have seen Mikkelsen vs Suninen in 3 rallies in R5 this year, Suninen was clearly a level behind. (This is not meant as criticism of Sunninen, more like a reality check to counter the hype).Quote:
Originally Posted by racerx1979
-------------
ATM with the info available (see first part above), I see the options as relatively open for all 3 "free" top drivers (Ogier, Tanak, Mikkelsen). (Technically Lavala is also free)
Ogier is probably most limited in his choices cause Hyundai prbly can't afford/doesn't want him with Neuville as n1, for Toyota it might create issues if they want to keep Latvala and he might hesitate to go to Citroen due to past issues and recent C3 performance.
From manu side we have:
M-Sport - likely to loose Ogier and have 1-2 free seats if Ford doesn't come, unlikely to go full "paydrivers" (aka. 2005), when it's only the 2nd year of this car, would want at least 1 very good driver.
Toyota - very likely to drop Hanninen and would want a chance for manu title so need one that can secure good results on most events
Citroen - 2 drivers with limited experience/unsure performance (Lefevbre especially), Meeke with unstable results. Car that needs development with input from other drivers than the 3 that developed it so far. (doesn't matter if they give right feedback if engineers don't trust their experience, none of the 3 have any experience with other cars from last 4 years)
Hyundai - prbly not 100% satisfied with Sordo and Paddon, after all the point gap from Neuville is huge relative to point gap Ogier vs Tanak and they are not leading manu champ, even with probably the fastest car atm. Trying to help Paddon improve his tarmac pace, is an indicator that he is still wanted, but then they also expect that the tarmac speed really improves.
This comment only shows that you have not been following rallying during the last 8 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by mmm
what were the reasons he was behind Lefebvre then when he was actually faster like you say?
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results...2017/?s=139528
https://www.ewrc-results.com/leg/364...nd-2017/?leg=2
https://www.ewrc-results.com/leg/364...nd-2017/?leg=3
Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Leg 1, 1:30 ish lost due to damaged suspension with his off. (note time difference is 1:10)
Leg 2, 2 off-road drives, 10-20s in total. (time difference 2.8s)
Leg 3, 20s off in "Tanak's corner" (time difference 17s)
All these are clearly documented and all are driver mistakes. So in the end Mikkelsen is slower, but to say he is "clearly behind" Lefevbre on speed does not really tell the whole story.
If you want Lappi vs Hanninen in Portugal since I used it for comparison:
Leg 1, Damaged Intercooler for Lappi, faster before
Leg, 2, Lappi faster until spin and damage in last stage
ah i see, but these are his own mistakes and no one else to blame that he lost this time?
anyway this is my last post regarding this topic...i have nothing against him and i was one of the guys here in the beginning of the year who kept yelling here that how come he doesnt have a seat and swap him with Lefebvre. Now they did that in sardinia and i was so sure he would do much better than Lefebvre even with minimal testing but for me these 2 outings have been rather disappointing.
i wish him all the best and he definitely still deserves a seat in the series.
we have to remember that this performance was with fresh homologated parts to suit his driving.Really not good.
That were never tested on wet. Considering Citroen "didn't have good setup" for Monte and Sweden after testing for most of the year before sets things to perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
EDIT: Also note where Breen was (a lot due to start position on Saturday, Sunday, but Mikkelsen was starting right behind him). Compare that to Breen vs Lefevbre on the other rallies.
there were dry stages as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2017/phot...u__mg_8538.jpg
The 2018 Teams thread covers this pretty well. Hyundai has contracts for all three drivers for 2018, don't see a reason why they would start making changes. Citroen has also contracts for Meeke, Breen and Lefebvre. Matton said in an interview that they can hire one guy more (could be Ogier or Mikkelsen). No one else has contracts that we know of. There's rumors of Tänak going to Toyota and that he would have a contract with M-Sport for 2018 and Toyota would have to pay penalty of that but it's just a rumor. It's been said that Lappi is a long time investment for Toyota so he's probably continuing there.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
I think Mikkelsen was hired to help Citroen solve some of their problems. Driving for VW last year, and taking part of wrc17 development, made him very desirable choice for that job.
Because of this his main goal with Citroen has nothing to do with how fast he is.
As mentioned alreagy, he had proven how fast he is in R5.
Also, when Citroen asked him to catch Evans at PS in Poland, he almost did so, posting second fastest time, and discarding the efforts of some title contenders.
I wrote my comment in a hurry and should have been more articulate.Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaruNorway
I am not talking about the kind of hardships you are refering to. What I am refering to is contracts - he got them real good and real early. He has been in a very comfortable position for years (no worries of getting dropped, superior car, well paid, no lead driver pressure) and in my mind, that has not been good for his development.
Well said mate. I still rate him highly, but his performances in Italy and Poland were for me, quite shocking. Especially when you consider the new parts he had on his car in Poland. Since when was Lefebvre a benchmark for anyone? The slowest wrc driver this year....Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Mikkelsen's results probably would have been very, very similar overall had he been driving an R5 Skoda in Sardinia and Poland instead. Which obviously doesn't reflect well on Citroen or Andreas whatsoever...
Com'on guys! The new homologated parts is not "to suit his driving" - it is to solve C3 "handling issues" or as they say "to make car more versatile". Which means that after changed part you have a lot of development work, so don't expect instant results.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
I think Andreas was hired to get some different input (from someone who has been involved in polo development!) and do some development work. That's why, I think, he had only objective - to finish the rally and he did just that.
For me, this quote sums it all up:
Andreas, after powerstage in Poland (he was 3rd): "We gave it a go. This stage is much more enjoyable with better grip. A clean stage and I'm happy to end the rally like this."
As mentioned Lefebvre was also a lot faster than Breen, exactly opposite to what has been the case on all previous outings this year. Not saying Mikkelsen's result was very good, but Lefevbre in Poland certainly wasn't the slowest wrc driver. (clearly faster than Hanninen, Evans, Ostberg and Breen).Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
I wrote before that his result in PS was the best Citroen PS result this year. (on 8th rally of the season by a hired-in driver).Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcco
(Lefevbre was better in Monte cause he had dry stage while others had snow)
Yes there were dry stages on Saturday, which meant two thingsQuote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
a) Mikkelsen was loosing time as 2nd car on the road in the morning
and
b)got 2x 5th and 1x 3rd place in the afternoon, which is probably where we would expect him had the rally been dry the whole way
(that picture of Neuville is from his puncture on SS16, where Mikkelsen was 5th)
some guys are pleased with Mikkelsens performance,but NOT with citroens performance.Strange.
I think this Mikkelsen issue is showing us how tight is actually the difference between perfoming well and not performing well in WRC.
Andreas Mikkelsen is one of the fastest drivers in the field. No doubts. He has won rallies and set fastest times. He is fast and consistent.
Btw I also agree there are not many excuses in what he is doing in citroen.
I think that actually a driver is not just fast or good. A driver can be the best in the universe under certain circumstances, and the worst under others. Everyone of them is different. Just look at Neuville. He was crashing all the time since one year ago. Then Hyundai changed his engineer and he has became WDC material.
Yes they also made the new i20 which should be better than other cars but how come that Paddon and Sordo are not 2nd and 3rd in the WDC ranking?
Look at Ogier. We all agree he is the best but he is struggling a lil bit with Fiesta while his teammate Tanak is doing his best season so far with the same car.
The fact is that even a little change can revolutionize the situation.
So we can continue to argue if Mikkelsen is good driver or not. Or we can analyze a little bit deeper and try to understand what is making him slower than usual with Citroen.
But this is what I don't get about You, unless you just don't like Meeke and love Andreas? You've been slating Meeke all season, but then in your last two or three posts above are trying to defend Andreas' performance in his so called "best rally", by saying he was marginally faster than the slowest WRC driver this season, in an older spec car? And you're looking for any excuse under the sun possible to make sense of how poor his last two rallies have been.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
The reason Andreas was so far behind Lefebvre overall was because he made silly mistakes ( like Meeke this season), but you seem to think it's a reason to justify Mikkelsen's result? Yet you slate Meeke for crashing while fighting for wins? Mikkelsen was crashing and making mistakes while struggling to match Lefebvre and toddling around in 9th/10th place on both rallies in Sardinia and Poland. Suninen in his first ever WRC start smashed Andreas pace wise.
I understand people having drivers they don't like, or favour, but surely that doesn't blind people to the point where they can't see things objectively? Some of Meeke's offs this season have been his own fault, he has to take the blame for that. He's been frustrated and has pushed the car too hard in an attempt to get competitive times out of it. It's worked in Mexico, and he was on for the win in Corsica but he was stupid in other events. Funny thing is, I bet you would be the first slamming Meeke had he turned in performances like Mikkelsen has in his last two rallies. Yet here you are trying to justify two very, very poor results for the Norwegian.
exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
But Mikkelsen is good,while Meeke is bad.
Would be good to see Meeke and Mikkelsen in same rally, in same spec car.
I'm sorry, but you are the one bringing Meeke in this discusson. That's why my reply will answe it. While Meeke wants to shine, Mikkelsen is geting his job more seriously. You can continue implying Mikkelsen is not fast (and that's true), but neither him or Citroen care abot that too much at the moment. It's fare to say that for only 2 events Mikkelsen has been more valuble for the team than Meeke for half a season.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
In contrast, Meeke has been focusing on his speed, and criticizing his car over and over. Yes, that's probably the case, but this is something other drivers don't usually do. They accept that they are slow, and get involved in the effort to fix this.
In short, I believe both Mikkelsen and Meeke are experienced and fast drivers, but in current situation with Citroen, it's pointless to compare and judge them.
I like both drivers and I would love to see them both in Citoren. The ewrc-results statistics show this,Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Kris Meeke Starts total: 157
Number of retirements 53 (33,8)
Andreas Mikkelsen Starts total: 176
Number of retirements: 35 (19,9)
I like both drivers and I would love to see them both in Citroen.
I had a former boss who always said "statistics do not say nothing"
Like Sardegna?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Good. That sums it up. So let's all stop this pointless thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by jparker
Maybe I should start one about co-drivers and which ones deserve seats more? That would probably be more interesting than what this thread has become.
He deserved a drive, he got one and it shows just how hard it is to perform at this level. Enough...