2023 WRC News & Rumours

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Originally Posted by Rallyest

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc...Z5POQ9Oo9DAfN8


“It is now clear that our line-up is what we will go with for the season,” said Latvala, referencing Friday morning’s announcement. “But, of course we have been considering that - on [seven] events where we have a fourth car available - we would consider a renting option."

So Katsuta will have 7 events in the main team.

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Well, I’m quite positive about them nominating Katsuta in the main team (even partially)
But on the other hand, I’m very disappointed about Toyota that they didn’t use the 7 available drives on the 4th car to help a young driver to step up (Lindholm or another one); really disappointing behavior from the brand, not really showing any interest for the future of the rally. I can understand they want a Japanese full-time but they should have at least 3 other cars everytime.

Only hope now is that a young driver find a way to fund a part-time season in this car; but it is necessarily reducing the scope of drivers able to do so (and it should be more M-Sport’s situation)

If indeed Tanak returns to Ford, he's driving for the main M-Sport Ford squad no doubt. They may send a Puma to M-Sport Poland and back RedGrey into a separate entry for Solberg with Monster as the main sponsor.
So, it goes something like this;
M-Sport Ford WRT
Tanak/Greensmith (full season)
Loeb/Loubet(shared 3rd car/option for 4th)
Monster/RedGrey/M-Sport Poland
Oliver (full season?)
Huttunen and/or Fourmaux (WRC2 and selective Rally 1 entries)

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Originally Posted by macebig

If indeed Tanak returns to Ford, he's driving for the main M-Sport Ford squad no doubt. They may send a Puma to M-Sport Poland and back RedGrey into a separate entry for Solberg with Monster as the main sponsor.
So, it goes something like this;
M-Sport Ford WRT
Tanak/Greensmith (full season)
Loeb/Loubet(shared 3rd car/option for 4th)
Monster/RedGrey/M-Sport Poland
Oliver (full season?)
Huttunen and/or Fourmaux (WRC2 and selective Rally 1 entries)

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Why would RedGrey/Poland do Monster?

I’m quite doubtful M-Sport will risk his relations with RedBull for just a customer Monster-car.
Except if Monster is really paying everything for hiring Tanak and having a consistent team but I’m quite doubtful they can (I would see more Red Bull in that role) or if RedBull is totally abandoning M-Sport after this bad season (but with Loeb in the mix, I think it’s highly not probable).

So for Solberg, I would more see a Monster deal for the part-time 4th Toyota (all the more interesting for him that we know Ogier won’t make the Nordic rallies). Makes sense for both Toyota (having the 4th car everywhere) and Solberg I think.
However, not really clear what Latvala is saying by «*only in renting*»: does he mean renting the car on renting the car + some team to exploit it? Because clearly, with the complexity of these cars, I’m extremely skeptical about just renting the car alone (and the customer having to exploit with his own team).

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Originally Posted by WRCStan

Why would RedGrey/Poland do Monster?

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So Red Bull can stick with Loeb/M-Sport UK and we can all imagine the Monster/RedGrey/Poland team is an independent entity, just using the same car?

If Red Bull as WRC promoter have any sense, facilitating some kind of fourth team with major investment from an outside, non-manufacturer source is something that should make a lot of sense. If they weren't promoter, then it'd be a non-starter.

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Originally Posted by the sniper

So Red Bull can stick with Loeb/M-Sport UK and we can all imagine the Monster/RedGrey/Poland team is an independent entity, just using the same car?

If Red Bull as WRC promoter have any sense, facilitating some kind of fourth team with major investment from an outside, non-manufacturer source is something that should make a lot of sense. If they weren't promoter, then it'd be a non-starter.

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But why would they encourage a team with their main competitor energy drink as the named sponsor ?

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

But why would they encourage a team with their main competitor energy drink as the named sponsor ?

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I actually doubt that it is even allowed by contract with Red Bull.

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Originally Posted by meh

I actually doubt that it is even allowed by contract with Red Bull.

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Maybe they can interrupt the sponsorship or when is going to end by contract?

With Loeb and Fourmaux on the team I can't see Monster taking any part in the main team at least.

If Monster were to come in, I guess only Loubet and Greensmith could stay?

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

But why would they encourage a team with their main competitor energy drink as the named sponsor ?

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For the greater good, as promoter, given how perilous the WRC's position is? If they don't, if Monster were to commit to the extent of a two car effort with another manufacturer, they'd be even more likely to get beaten by Monster branded cars. I'm still not sure how invested (in any sense) Red Bull are as a team backer. If they were particularly fussed about winning, they could have easily funded M-Sport enough to actually be competitive. As it is, I imagine their involvement just ensures Loeb is still involved and M-Sport have something going for them, which has a wider value for Red Bull and the WRC as promoter.

I'll give you that it would be a very peculiar situation, but it's only one that is thinkable because of their position as overall promoter. If one manufacturer pulls out, the Championship is currently in serious trouble...

I kinda doubt we will see much of Fourmaux in 2023.

If Malcolm uses money (or gets a big sponsor) I would expect:
Tanak (getting paid)

Bringing money:
Greensmith
Loeb (RedBull)/Loubet

Solberg maybe funding own separate car

Without Tanak the drivers will be the same, just one less car.

There could have been a tiny chance that MSport would aim to get another experienced driver, but the only realistic option available now is Mikkelsen, since Suninen got kicked and Paddon is supported by Hyundai. But Wilson does want to pay for Mikkelsen as directly or indirectly demonstrated multiple times over the years, even in 2016 right after Mikkelsen won Australia (his second win that year) Wilson told him to bring money to drive a Fiesta on DMACKs. The story is repeated for last 2 years, MSport asks for money, Skoda pays money. Lappi was also only there in 2019 cause Citroen was still paying him.

italian media:

The Solberg family has not yet fully revealed its cards, but the trip to the United States to meet with the top management of Monster, dad Petter's historic partner, has produced the desired results (although it would be more correct to say budgets). This has been confirmed by all the sources known to be close to the best-known and most media-conscious Scandinavian rallying family. These days, the Solbergs have set out on a major programme, a return to their roots, given that their WRC adventure was born under the American soft drink maker's flag. According to the rumours circulating, the two Monster image men among the four-wheelers Petter Solberg and Ken Block should be on the command bridge. This is an important widening in the policy of the American company, which up to now has mainly focused on the world of two wheels, while with four wheels it has marked a significant presence in World RX, in the days of the previous promoter; and at single spot events from Block's Gimkana to the Monza Rally Show with Valentino Rossi. Even though these were one-off presences, they were still talking about six-figure budgets, from the commitment to cover technical budgets to those needed to give an image to their presence. The programme they are now working on has been associated on several occasions with the name of Ott Tanak, the only top WRC driver never to have worn the colours of rival Red Bull. The first rumours were leaked immediately after the announcement of his divorce from Alzenau, only to be relaunched by the Iberian media last week, as soon as Hyundai and Toyota announced their 2023 line-ups. At this point, with the certainty of the budget, the drafting of the programme has begun to take shape, and between the end of November and the beginning of December the first certainties should arrive.

http://www.areacorse.com/solberg-2023-monster/

Presume Breen wasn’t paying for his drive, although probably not actually paid much?

I can’t see why they wouldn’t offer a similar deal to Mikkelsen, who is at least a multiple WRC event winner.

3 possible reasons any one of them could work:

- (if) they get Tanak
- Loeb's starts serve the purpose of showing the speed of the car
- Malcolm doesn't like/have faith in Mikkelsen, see post just above. Every time they had a chance to choose him they told him to bring money (before 2017 season, 2021, 2022)

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Originally Posted by RS

Presume Breen wasn’t paying for his drive, although probably not actually paid much?

I can’t see why they wouldn’t offer a similar deal to Mikkelsen, who is at least a multiple WRC event winner.

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To offer such deal - especially in M-Sport's case - to a driver who has zero rallies in a Rally1 car and hasn't driven in WRC's top class for three years doesn't sound like a smart move.

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Originally Posted by Allez Andruet

To offer such deal - especially in M-Sport's case - to a driver who has zero rallies in a Rally1 car and hasn't driven in WRC's top class for three years doesn't sound like a smart move.

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Do you really think a driver with Mikkelsens experience and routine cant drive the rally1 proper? Its not a moonrocket...

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Allez Andruet

To offer such deal - especially in M-Sport's case - to a driver who has zero rallies in a Rally1 car and hasn't driven in WRC's top class for three years doesn't sound like a smart move.

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When Breen got the "deal" he has not driven Rally1 car either (so unknown), has not driven more than 4 rallies per year for 3 years and had close to zero experience on half of the rallies in calendar.

Other available options have proven they can't drive Rally1 car with good speed and any reliability (Fourmaux, Greensmith).

So yes it would be a risk, but out of those available hiring anyone else than Tanak is.

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Imo drivers that are used to driving cars without active difs like 2016 and earlier WRCs or Rally2 cars should do better in Rally1 than those that only drove 2017 WRCs with 3 fancy diffs.

Previous Rally 1 car experience can not be that strong argument - orherwise you don't have any choice.

I think with Mikkelsen the reason to not get Rally 1 seat is somewhere else. Related to previous experiences and maybe "still learning the car" times from Hyundai. He has at least average speed on the field, but problably not enough to overweight some other arguments. But his marketing campaign "I'll dominate WRC2" didn't went that well also.

It's quite funny how we all want more cars, yet the number of drivers that are guaranteed to do a good job is probably less than 10. Goes to show how high the level is. I'm inclined to agree that Mikkelsen is one of the best drivers without a Rally1 drive but it is also questionable whether he will be at the sharp end.

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Originally Posted by skarderud

Do you really think a driver with Mikkelsens experience and routine cant drive the rally1 proper?

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No, I don't.

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Originally Posted by meh

Previous Rally 1 car experience can not be that strong argument - orherwise you don't have any choice.

I think with Mikkelsen the reason to not get Rally 1 seat is somewhere else. Related to previous experiences and maybe "still learning the car" times from Hyundai. He has at least average speed on the field, but problably not enough to overweight some other arguments. But his marketing campaign "I'll dominate WRC2" didn't went that well also.

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Year 1 no (although he won the title). This year I think he did a pretty comprehensive job, even though that didn’t end with the title.

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Originally Posted by meh

Previous Rally 1 car experience can not be that strong argument - orherwise you don't have any choice.

I think with Mikkelsen the reason to not get Rally 1 seat is somewhere else. Related to previous experiences and maybe "still learning the car" times from Hyundai. He has at least average speed on the field, but problably not enough to overweight some other arguments. But his marketing campaign "I'll dominate WRC2" didn't went that well also.

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He had same speed as Loeb in Hyundai and finished 4th in WRC in 2019 beating Evans (same number of rallies) as well as Latvala and Meeke in Toyota and Lappi in Citroen all 3 with 2 more starts than him.
On gravel his speed was on top Hyundai level at the time, tarmac was bad (again just like Loeb).
But it is funny how his results seemingly get talked about as worse and worse for every year since.

In Rally2 he won two Championships at once with most wins in both of them. But sure he didn't win every rally, yet was faster than Breen in all starts.

Anyway based on all rumors he had contract ready for 6+ rallies at Hyundai before Lappi decided to jump ship. So for Hyundai who have most recent direct experience he was good enough, but not for MSport. Cause as I said I believe MSport will never let him drive unless he pays.

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Originally Posted by mknight

When Breen got the "deal" he has not driven Rally1 car either (so unknown), has not driven more than 4 rallies per year for 3 years and had close to zero experience on half of the rallies in calendar.

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Not gonna bother to comment on the first point as it's quite obvious, but while Mikkelsen's been out from the top class for three years, Breen had three podiums from his last three WRC starts (all within the past six months at the time) when getting the deal. As the question was about offering a "similar deal" to Mikkelsen as was to Breen a year ago, I think that sums it up (sure Breen wasn't the complete package either and that was known, but his recent CV was quite far apart from Mikkelsen's). Fourmaux and Greensmith aren't exactly in the same competition.

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Originally Posted by Allez Andruet

Not gonna bother to comment on the first point as it's quite obvious, but while Mikkelsen's been out from the top class for three years, Breen had three podiums from his last three WRC starts (all within the past six months at the time) when getting the deal. As the question was about offering a "similar deal" to Mikkelsen as was to Breen a year ago, I think that sums it up (sure Breen wasn't the complete package either and that was known, but his recent CV was quite far apart from Mikkelsen's). Fourmaux and Greensmith aren't exactly in the same competition.

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There is not much point to argue about details, but in general a year ago Breen was considered a rising prospect with possibly bigger potential. This year (as Adamo recently commented) he has shown he can't (yet??) be n1 cause he does not handle the pressure. Mikkelsen was "safer" choice with less potential.

But a year ago is a year ago.

Right now MSport does not have any driver that can be hoped to consistently show the speed of the car and be able to fight for podiums on all or most rounds. Breen got kicked cause he was not able to do that. Loubet can't do that (yet?), no podium yet and on quite a few rallies he doesn't have experience or speed (yet). Fourmaux and Greensmith have shown they can't do that and Loeb won't do many starts.

Mikkelsen is clearly the best available choice (besides Tanak). Question is if MSports aims have been downscaled even more from last year.

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Originally Posted by RS

Presume Breen wasn’t paying for his drive, although probably not actually paid much?

I can’t see why they wouldn’t offer a similar deal to Mikkelsen, who is at least a multiple WRC event winner.

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Breen paid for his MSport drive - to replace Breen you'd have to bring a fair chunk of change with you! MSport certainly wouldn't pay to have Andreas in the seat so Andreas would have to come with more money than he has.

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Originally Posted by pettersolberg29

Breen paid for his MSport drive - to replace Breen you'd have to bring a fair chunk of change with you! MSport certainly wouldn't pay to have Andreas in the seat so Andreas would have to come with more money than he has.

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Wasn't it this way that Breen got a "free" car from M-Sport and his salary was paid by his personal sponsors. So in a way Breen didn't have to pay for M-Sport?

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Originally Posted by flat_right

Wasn't it this way that Breen got a "free" car from M-Sport and his salary was paid by his personal sponsors. So in a way Breen didn't have to pay for M-Sport?

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AFAIK M-Sport made money from Breen - how much I couldn't say, but the amount he gets from his 'benefactor' is more than I think he'd use just for salary so assume a big chunk went into Malcolm's pocket too. Perhaps not, but if not then Breen is a very, very well paid man!

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Originally Posted by Allez Andruet

No, I don't.

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Hot tip: don't eat those mushrooms you find in the Forest.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by mknight

Mikkelsen is clearly the best available choice (besides Tanak).

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That's a very bold statement which is based on the assumption that the performance level of Mikkelsen vs. the others would have been on a standstill for the past three years. Who knows, it might have been, but on any sport that's not the most obvious outcome and I assume it's not something which mr. Wilson would put his money on either.

Mikkelsen will remain enigmatic, we can only guess. My guess is that he would be similar as in the Hyundai in 2017-2019, showing flashes of speed but rarely being able to keep it up throughout a rally, and sometimes being just totally lost. Or then something like Breen this year. But still, there aren't really better options either, or at least it's difficult to compare to some other prospects. The level of the top drivers in WRC is very high at the moment, and it's really hard get there. Fighting for 4-5 positions or sometimes leading the rally is not enough. I would also consider Mikkelsen relatively old, but then again 2022 has shown us that maybe it's better for youngsters (except Kalle :D ) to stay in lower classes and gather experience.

just look at the times of Andreas Mikkelsen at Acropolis Rallye....of course after his big mistake on stage 1....but after this mistake he drove incredible times, he was faster than Katsuta on many stage, he drove a 3rd fastest stage time with Rally2 Fabia on a "normal" stage!!!!!

Mikkelsen is clearly the BEST available choice if Tänak is too expensive (or not available) AND after his years with Skoda he knows how to Set up a car! Seeing Breen gets a Program after this Performance and Mikkelsen not makes me wonder...

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Originally Posted by WRC1

he drove a 3rd fastest stage time with Rally2 Fabia on a "normal" stage!!!!!

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No offence and definitely no disrespect to anyone involved, but I'm not so sure if any stage can be called "normal" in which Gaurav Gill beats Rovanperä, Lappi, Greensmith and Loubet.

Massive road cleaning and Sunday driving. Also in terms of WRC2, Mikkelsen had already lost everything so he could risk it all. Others had to take it carefully to secure getting to finish. But still impressive driving.

I LOL'd again in public listening to the Dirtfish podcast where David Evans suggests that "Maybe Tänak does a season of ARA" :D

Referring to the discussion about Mikkelsen, I was curious where he stands in the World Rally Ranking and found out that this initiative must have died. I only found this facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/WRRUnitedBusiness/
but the webiste www.worldrallyranking.com doesn't work anymore. I guess the owner lost interest.
Do you think it makes sense to have a rally ranking, similar to the ATP ranking in tennis?

Regarding Mikkelsen, team bosses dont like him as it have to do something about his personality or previous interactions rather than his driving abilities. Maybe a little too arrogant and he overvalues himself if its simply budget question? Hard to say.
Although without Rally1 experience, he is still best option out there. And I would pick him over Breen (and even Lappi) any day.

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Originally Posted by Jarek Z

Referring to the discussion about Mikkelsen, I was curious where he stands in the World Rally Ranking and found out that this initiative must have died. I only found this facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/WRRUnitedBusiness/
but the webiste www.worldrallyranking.com doesn't work anymore. I guess the owner lost interest.
Do you think it makes sense to have a rally ranking, similar to the ATP ranking in tennis?

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Yes, it was canceled before it started

Jarek, was that (related to) the FIA Global Rally Ranking attempt or (any) other? There's been a few (FIA/WRC tries) over the years, officially and unofficially. I guess that crews just don't want them.

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Originally Posted by WRCStan

Jarek, was that the FIA Global Rally Ranking attempt or another?

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I think it was some private initiative, outside of FIA.

But you have just reminded me of the FIA Global Rally Ranking. I tried to google it and found only this:
https://dirtfish.com/rally/fia-launc...tem-from-2022/

Has it ever started?

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Originally Posted by Jarek Z

I think it was some private initiative, outside of FIA.

But you have just reminded me of the FIA Global Rally Ranking. I tried to google it and found only this:
https://dirtfish.com/rally/fia-launc...tem-from-2022/

Has it ever started?

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I was talking about the FIA ranking, it was canceled early this year. The canceling was announced at some WMSC meeting, IIRC.