[WRC] 73. Secto Rally Finland 2024

[CeskyOndra]

How is he playing with anybody's head when he turns up to every round? Come off it!

He really doesn't care for the titles. He's got 8, a 9th is just stats.

Matters to Toyota however.

"Ogier doesn't care about results" ... Sure :D

[WRCStan]

It's good for him to stick to the story, rather than saying options in his contract are being triggered by Toyota because he's got ineffectual team mates.

You can tell from this article he's really motivated to get that 9th and be level with Loeb means a lot to him: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/points-system-putting-ogier-off-doing-rest-of-the-season/ Sure, sure sure sur su

[WRCStan]

"Ogier doesn't care about results" ... Sure :D

Isn't what I said.

[focus206]

It's good for him to stick to the story, rather than saying options in his contract are being triggered by Toyota because he's got ineffectual team mates.

You can tell from this article he's really motivated to get that 9th and be level with Loeb means a lot to him: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/points-system-putting-ogier-off-doing-rest-of-the-season/ Sure, sure sure sur su

A contract is a piece of scrap paper for Ogier. If he wants to do the rest of the season, he will. If he doesn't want to do it, he won't. What is Toyota going to do, fire him? Yeah, right.
He will do it, because he wants to go for another title, as the conditions are right and as he already stated. It's clear since quite some rallyes.

[WRCStan]

A contract is a piece of scrap paper for Ogier. If he wants to do the rest of the season, he will. If he doesn't want to do it, he won't. What is Toyota going to do, fire him? Yeah, right.
He will do it, because he wants to go for another title, as the conditions are right and as he already stated. It's clear since quite some rallyes.

OK plenty for me to consider there thank you.

[dimviii]

More like in WRC drivers are more likely to crash or suffer from road changes due to cleaning or rain. If you add 5 extra drivers, things like road cleaning or "stealing" points would be even worse.

Also remember that Loeb won championship as a "part timers" due to injury as well.

he had an injury,and you name him a partimer when he won this years championship
The rest championships doesnt tell you something.
no he wasnt a partimer,he was injured and he didnt choose it instead of a partimer.

[dimviii]

One question is whether he would be consistent in a Hyundai. The other is how fast he really is, Sesks was the only point of reference this year and was better.
in his home rally.
Just imagine Sesks to compete Adrien in asphalt Monte.

[turdzi]

Neuville/Tanak/Fourmaux would be strong team. Evans could be available for M-Sport, I would not be surprised if Toyota would replace him with Pajari for next year.

I also think that he would fit there well but that would close the doors for Oliver. He is one that truly deserves a seat in Rally1 car so for that reason I would see him in Hyundai and Formoux and Sesks in M-sport.

[Devillersvideo]

My video of this heaven :D

https://youtu.be/FWAq8k6W5UE

2551

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[mknight]

he had an injury,and you name him a partimer when he won this years championship
The rest championships doesnt tell you something.
no he wasnt a partimer,he was injured and he didnt choose it instead of a partimer.

The argument was that Ogier fighting for title without starting in all rounds is something new due to lack of competition.

Loeb won the championship while not driving all rounds decade and a half ago. So nothing new. Both Loeb and Ogier are great drives which is the main reason they can achieve this.

Arguing how it happened is pointless in this context.

[mknight]

in his home rally.
Just imagine Sesks to compete Adrien in asphalt Monte.

Fourmaux has two seasons in the Rally1 car and effectively a season in a 2017 WRC car. Sesks had one round in a non hybrid. Some difference.

The fact that Sesks is not good on tarmac doesn't change the gravel comparison.

[mknight]

I also think that he would fit there well but that would close the doors for Oliver. He is one that truly deserves a seat in Rally1 car so for that reason I would see him in Hyundai and Formoux and Sesks in M-sport.

Solberg did great job at improving reliability on gravel while keeping speed.

For a full time Rally1 he can't just ignore tarmac like he does this year. Unless he aims for part time first.

[paddocknews]

WRC Rally Finland 2024 | Max Attack & Big Jumps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZYePe2fPZ8

[SubaruNorway]

What an amazing event this is!
Neuville and Fourmaux not too far off putting their name on a certain stone in Ouninpohja!
https://youtu.be/8M9irQc5egM?si=PJRlgonB9rRpsPOZ

[macebig]

That's like saying Panizzi was better than Gronholm in 2000, because Gilles won TdC and Marcus didn't...

[rp]

Absolutely shocking. There is no doubt, Toyota got beaten at its own ground due to luck of sporting management.


Their Team Principal is keen to drive and that is a surprise that Toyota will allow it. If Hyundai will take both titles surely they will be some changes at Toyota.

[deephouse]

I also think that he would fit there well but that would close the doors for Oliver. He is one that truly deserves a seat in Rally1 car so for that reason I would see him in Hyundai and Formoux and Sesks in M-sport.

As I said already before, the titles are often overlooked. Even if he is doing great at the moment, Toyota chose Pajari, and M-Sport/promoter chose Sesks for ''wildcar'' outing. He left Hyundai on bad terms, as long as I know. So there's quite little chance he will be given another shot. Toyota has also a program with the next generation Japanese drivers, so that means one spot will always be one of them. Realistically he will be on the grid at some point in the future, but probably not as soon as next year.

[turdzi]

I respect it and that's great for our sport but thay don't need to make controversial decisions like swapping or so, today it would be enough to jus slow lead drivers a bit to give Evans a better chance in tough time. Even for the tone of his voice you can hear thar he is a bit disappointed that he is not getting any help.

[deephouse]

I respect it and that's great for our sport but thay don't need to make controversial decisions like swapping or so, today it would be enough to jus slow lead drivers a bit to give Evans a better chance in tough time. Even for the tone of his voice you can hear thar he is a bit disappointed that he is not getting any help.

Ogier did say once this year, that why would he help someone. That he is here to win where he can. Especially at the point, he knew he would go for the title.

And what if Kalle did think about that possibility too, until his off here in Finland. That he actually can challenge for the title. In the end, everyone who is practically one of the best is doing everything for themself, it's a bit selfish, if you ask me, but that is how the sport always works.

''His help'' would be worth nothing if he would bin it anyway.

[denkimi]

The argument was that Ogier fighting for title without starting in all rounds is something new due to lack of competition.

Loeb won the championship while not driving all rounds decade and a half ago. So nothing new. Both Loeb and Ogier are great drives which is the main reason they can achieve this.

Arguing how it happened is pointless in this context.
But loeb was injured at the end, he had no position advantage by skipping selected rounds.

Ogier skipping rally's to gain a position advantage is something we have never seen before with championship contenders.

[AndyRAC]

Toyota don't deserve to win either title this year; absolute inept man management from them. Their supposed No1 full time driver hasn't had the full support from the 'part timers' when he needed it. And while he hasn't had a great year driving wise, you'd think drivers who aren't in the full championship would be willing to help him to gain points over Neuville when possible. But no......

[turdzi]

Their Team Principal is keen to drive and that is a surprise that Toyota will allow it. If Hyundai will take both titles surely they will be some changes at Toyota.

Well it was before Cyril tok over. He is a bright guy and knows that as someone point they have to invest in future.
At the same time one have to be realistic. At that time Hyundai haven't provide Oliver a proper Rally1 car, that was a tired test chassis, a boy trying to do a mens job so difficult to expect if you do not provide the proper tools.
It also has to be said that Oliver probably hasn't been ready at that point and could manage that situation a little bit different. Peter his dad hasn't helped him as well mixing up from the side and finally he had to be removed from the service park course he was distracting for Oliver. But now things are totally different and even JML said in interview wit Colin Clark that he is ready. Unfortunately there is and will not be any seat for hem in Toyota in near future so Hyundai is his only option unless he will organize backing to drive for M-sport.

However from Hyundai stand point Formaux is probably a better ( read safer) option course he is a proven Rally1 driver and with his French background he will probably fit better to that team. The unknown thing for next year is actually Neuville.I suspect that if he will win a title he might be very temtempting to do a time part program course you have no pressure, do rallies you want and are sett to win them. He said not so far ago that at he moment Ogier and Kalle has much more fun and it is something to seriously consider in the future.

[TypeR]

Their Team Principal is keen to drive and that is a surprise that Toyota will allow it. If Hyundai will take both titles surely they will be some changes at Toyota.
Latvala is just there for PR and interviews. There is no way he goes to Ogier or Kalle to say them how or what to do..
Lindstrom and Fowler are the main guys there..


+ I hope that Fourmaux won't go to Hyundai.. disaster car..

[turdzi]

Toyota don't deserve to win either title this year; absolute inept man management from them. Their supposed No1 full time driver hasn't had the full support from the 'part timers' when he needed it. And while he hasn't had a great year driving wise, you'd think drivers who aren't in the full championship would be willing to help him to gain points over Neuville when possible. But no......

Unfortunately I have to agree. It is a little bit sad to see actually that he is not getting any support but there can be some things that we do not know. Judging from Pajaris outing maby they already decided to drop him for next year in Pajaris favor.

[MentalParadox]

Toyota don't deserve to win either title this year; absolute inept man management from them. Their supposed No1 full time driver hasn't had the full support from the 'part timers' when he needed it. And while he hasn't had a great year driving wise, you'd think drivers who aren't in the full championship would be willing to help him to gain points over Neuville when possible. But no......

How would "support from the team" and his teammates prevent him from DNF'ing due to mechanical trouble and mistakes?

[turdzi]

Mechanical trouble not but mistake yes that was mainly due to that he had to fight for Sunday points with his teammates

[Dontcut]

Teams don't give a rat's ass about drivers title. Their focus is on manu title. Ogi and Kalle help to take points for Toyota and Evans' changes for title is so secondary.

[manthey]

Neuville 46; Tanak 33; Evans 28; Ogier 49
this is the ranking after the 3 fast races on gravel where it is speculated that Neuville will lose in advance due to the starting place. I think he is the big favorite for the title, only Ogier would still have a chance

can you add Fourmaux? how many points?thanks

[focus206]

can you add Fourmaux? how many points?thanks

Fourmaux 45

[Morte66]

If I were Fourmaux, and I had a full drive at M-Sport in prospect, I would be leery about Hyundai. They seem like a Bermuda Triangle for promising careers. He should get a big pay rise and a cast iron contract to drive every rally before he thinks about it. And then he should think carefully.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

What an amazing event this is!
Neuville and Fourmaux not too far off putting their name on a certain stone in Ouninpohja!
https://youtu.be/8M9irQc5egM?si=PJRlgonB9rRpsPOZ

This is what Ouninpohja should look like ! Great job !

(The RallyTV coverage of it was garbage. All they showed of any excitement was the yellow house jump and even that wasn't well-filmed. Any casual viewer would wonder what all the fuss was about... )

[turdzi]

If I were Fourmaux, and I had a full drive at M-Sport in prospect, I would be leery about Hyundai. They seem like a Bermuda Triangle for promising careers. He should get a big pay rise and a cast iron contract to drive every rally before he thinks about it. And then he should think carefully.

But that's what Malcolm's business plan is that he supposed to get his return when Fourmaux is off to another manufacturer for big bucks and it seems that he is ready now. As I understand he is already talking and from rally to rally his cards getting stronger and stronger.

[manthey]

It's good for him to stick to the story, rather than saying options in his contract are being triggered by Toyota because he's got ineffectual team mates.

You can tell from this article he's really motivated to get that 9th and be level with Loeb means a lot to him: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/points-system-putting-ogier-off-doing-rest-of-the-season/ Sure, sure sure sur suDid they modify the article? I don't read these words about

[AndersX]

On 30th of March I posted this: "Just watch how WDC moulds up around the driver who is destained to earn it - small things that go right way, small "luck" moments etc. This is Thierry year! After 57 seasons he is finally on the track to become a champion - it comes his way. Lets hope he does not f.... it up.".

Seems I was right - events around him point to one direction. Even though I wanted Tanak to win, i would be ok with Neuville also.

[turdzi]

On 30th of March I posted this: "Just watch how WDC moulds up around the driver who is destained to earn it - small things that go right way, small "luck" moments etc. This is Thierry year! After 57 seasons he is finally on the track to become a champion - it comes his way. Lets hope he does not f.... it up.".

Seems I was right - events around him point to one direction. Even though I wanted Tanak to win, i would be ok with Neuville also.

It is still a long way to go a d that tricky Japan can throw few surprises. But at least he has a buffer now.

[WRCStan]

Did they modify the article? I don't read these words about

Inviato dal mio ELE-L29 utilizzando Tapatalk

I was being sarcastic for those trying to convince me earlier that the things you and I both cannot read here are actually happening.

But yes they have edited out a lot of text where he apparently blamed the points system for being the reason he is reluctant to compete.

Very sad situation.

[CeskyOndra]

Fourmaux would fit in to the Hyundai car very well as a Frenchman and he also has a good relationship with Thierry. It is the best driver Hyundai can hire for the next season... But from his perspective, it is a big risk..

[denkimi]

Unfortunately I have to agree. It is a little bit sad to see actually that he is not getting any support but there can be some things that we do not know. Judging from Pajaris outing maby they already decided to drop him for next year in Pajaris favor.
Nobody is gonna replace evans by pajari. Depending on what ogier and rovanpera will do they might put him in the 3th or 4th car.

[Eli]

I know this is really besides the point and a bit off topic but I really hope Toyota take notice next year and make a livery somewhere in-between the lines of Rovanperä ‘s car, Pajari’s & Latvala’s pretty cool red rally 2 Yaris.

[becher]

I know this is really besides the point and a bit off topic but I really hope Toyota take notice next year and make a livery somewhere in-between the lines of Rovanperä ‘s car, Pajari’s & Latvala’s pretty cool red rally 2 Yaris.

This! The black "livery" is horrible.

[EstWRC]

Pajari livery looked awesome in real life.

The black Toyotas are so meh

[Eli]

This! The black "livery" is horrible.

That’s why I liked Rovanperä‘s livery, was a good mix in-between although the white car i.e. Pajari’s will always look cool (as long as the door handles are white too, sounds silly but it makes all the difference). Just think how many times we’ve seen the WRC new generation cars (whichever generation) in PET for Monte-Carlo and we say in this Forum, “this white test car with black/white alloys looks so good”.

[dimviii]

The fact that Sesks is not good on tarmac doesn't change the gravel comparison.
So you already know that Sesks is faster from Adrien at gravel slow rallies?
I am not so sure...
We have to wait to see Sesks at more rallies, before jumping to conclusions .

[samzon100]

Pictures Secto Rally Finland 31.07-04.08.2024
Shakedown, SS5, SS13 and SS18

https://samzon.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Secto+Rally+Finland+08.24/

[AndersX]

So you already know that Sesks is faster from Adrien at gravel slow rallies?
I am not so sure...
We have to wait to see Sesks at more rallies, before jumping to conclusions .

By this logic, the one who is faster on fast rallies, can actually be slower on slow rallies? Sorry, what?! Only experience of surface and how hard you can push to find the line makes difference.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

This! The black "livery" is horrible.

Yes indeed... it hasn't grown on me at all.

It may look reasonable in photoshoots, but in real life it's awful You mostly just see the big white G on the side with the R blending in to the black.

https://toyotagazooracing.com/-/media/TMC/tgr/global/contents/wrc/images/release/2024/rd07-day1/01.jpg

[focus206]

By this logic, the one who is faster on fast rallies, can actually be slower on slow rallies? Sorry, what?!

It's possible. For example, Neuville is mostly faster than Evans on slow gravel rallies, Evans is mostly faster than Neuville on fast gravel rallies.

[DrLill]

It's possible. For example, Neuville is mostly faster than Evans on slow gravel rallies, Evans is mostly faster than Neuville on fast gravel rallies.

Maybe the characteristics of the cars come to play as well - Toyota better on the fast stuff and Hyundai better on the slow stuff, hence the difference in the pace of the drivers..

[saco0o]

even thinking some of the liveries were "meh" (maybe too simple?) i still rather having that than 3 or 4 cars all painted the same.

[Backa]

By this logic, the one who is faster on fast rallies, can actually be slower on slow rallies? Sorry, what?! Only experience of surface and how hard you can push to find the line makes difference.

Why not, finding and properly executing perfect line through stage with mostly straights and fast corners seems quite different than doing it on stage where there is one slow corner after another.

[dimviii]

By this logic, the one who is faster on fast rallies, can actually be slower on slow rallies? Sorry, what?!
yes plenty of times we have seen this.As we have seen the opposite.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Photos of the crashed cars in Finland. What a testing rally ! :disturb:

https://www.instagram.com/p/C-LSJIsIthA/?igsh=aDd6a3NqNWk0ZGY2

[Mirek]

By this logic, the one who is faster on fast rallies, can actually be slower on slow rallies? Sorry, what?! Only experience of surface and how hard you can push to find the line makes difference.

That's a silly statement. Have long have you been following rallies?

And to you question. Just check Sesk's stats on ewrc and you will see what dimviii meant.

[becher]

Yes indeed... it hasn't grown on me at all.

It may look reasonable in photoshoots, but in real life it's awful You mostly just see the big white G on the side with the R blending in to the black.

https://toyotagazooracing.com/-/media/TMC/tgr/global/contents/wrc/images/release/2024/rd07-day1/01.jpg

Indeed it's a "looks fine in the studio shots" but shite in real life.

[Mirek]

Indeed it's a "looks fine in the studio shots" but shite in real life.

I don't like it even on photos. Never did. For me it's the worst works team livery since I follow the sport.

[AndersX]

That's a silly statement. Have long have you been following rallies?

And to you question. Just check Sesk's stats on ewrc and you will see what dimviii meant.

Good one. 100% more than most here, my question is not silly, because you can teach fast driver to adopt to slow roads, but you can not get slow driver to be more brave and faster on very fast roads. Fast gravel is a cornerstone of rally by its nature and history. Another point - not all can adopt and control 1 mil worth cars. Even in F1 you see guys who dominate lower series, but fail when F1 opportunity arrives. Both Pajari and Sesks showed that R2 pool has some good, high potential drivers and that WRC is shooting in its legs by giving these opportunities so rarely. Promoter is changing it and that is good for the rally.

[becher]

I don't like it even on photos. Never did. For me it's the worst works team livery since I follow the sport.

Me neither but it's a recurring theme with liveries that the people responsible for them come up with something (mostly dark/ish/black) and think it looks fine but once it's on TV it looks like those people don't know what they are doing.

[Eli]

Our favourite rally rankings are back: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/dirtfishs-rally-finland-2024-driver-ratings/

[becher]

Good one. 100% more than most here, my question is not silly, because you can teach fast driver to adopt to slow roads, but you can not get slow driver to be more brave and faster on very fast roads. Fast gravel is a cornerstone of rally by its nature and history. Another point - not all can adopt and control 1 mil worth cars. Even in F1 you see guys who dominate lower series, but fail when F1 opportunity arrives. Both Pajari and Sesks showed that R2 pool has some good, high potential drivers and that WRC is shooting in its legs by giving these opportunities so rarely. Promoter is changing it and that is good for the rally.

One question: What about Loeb?

[denkimi]

Good one. 100% more than most here, my question is not silly, because you can teach fast driver to adopt to slow roads, but you can not get slow driver to be more brave and faster on very fast roads. Fast gravel is a cornerstone of rally by its nature and history. Another point - not all can adopt and control 1 mil worth cars. Even in F1 you see guys who dominate lower series, but fail when F1 opportunity arrives. Both Pajari and Sesks showed that R2 pool has some good, high potential drivers and that WRC is shooting in its legs by giving these opportunities so rarely. Promoter is changing it and that is good for the rally.
You can't teach talent nor bravery, but none of the top rc1 driver lack any of that.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Another brilliant fan video showing a totally superior version of the action compared to RallyTV..

https://youtu.be/WIVChJ1vr2k?si=RtZ2FDHJnh2474Jk

[Rallyper]

@Satnav, thanks for PM.

[deephouse]

Fans should be included in live coverage. They are doing a better job than the official stream.

[satnav]

@Satnav, thanks for PM.

Cheers Per, hope you're feeling better soon

[MTA]

Absolutely fantastic rally as usual this time too.
However, one wishes that the timetable was a little different so that one would have time for several routes per day also on Saturday and Sunday and not just 3 routes that ran twice.

Say what you want about Super Sunday, but this time it was not at all like the previous years that most drove slowly on Sunday to save tires and it was an exciting and eventful race all the way to the finish line.

Our photos are available at https://www.facebook.com/rallyfoto.se/

[ReRe]

My gallery from Finland 2024 here: https://eu.zonerama.com/TomasR/Album/11893646