[WRC] Rally Sweden 2024

[meh]

I just need to say it here.. the quality is amazing.

[CeskyOndra]

did he lost the PS by this?

[Tauri_J]

Hes making fun of the points system. Whos the real winner here. Obviously the one with most points scored

Dont Think Lappi cares how many points he gets

[PLuto]

Hes making fun of the points system. Whos the real winner here. Obviously the one with most points scored

No. Winner of the rally is the guy who is fastest in finish of the rally, with best time from all stages together.

[PLuto]

I dont agree. I'm sure we rally fans understand it perfectly, but some just dont necessarily agree with it.

I know lot of fans who still dont understand it. And I know also some of them who has given up to understand it and dont take care about points, just only follow the rally and results.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

A podiummmmm !!

Well done Adrien Fourmaux and the M-Sport team for a reliable car !!

[TypeR]

Damn, why Fourmaux took such risk..?

[wwbroe]

Very well done by Adrian

[Rallyper]

Fourmaux biggest surprise in this rally. Congrats to him.

[wwbroe]

What a finish

[Morte66]

Eh, I'll take it.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Jeez Elfyn that was a close one.

[Morte66]

Jeez Elfyn that was a close one.

Put it in the bank Elfyn, and don't do it again.

[wwbroe]

So, Evans walking away with more points then rally winner, doesn't sound logical to me

[PLuto]

So, Evans walking away with more points then rally winner, doesn't sound logical to me

It is not logial, it is only totally stupid.

[Morte66]

So, Evans walking away with more points then rally winner, doesn't sound logical to me

Or... Lappi taking it easy for half the rally and getting less points than somebody who didn't. Makes perfect sense from that angle.

[PLuto]

And fight for power stage more interesting than this lovely "super Sunday".

[wwbroe]

Well deserved win for EP

[jonkka]

Or... Lappi taking it easy for half the rally and getting less points than somebody who didn't. Makes perfect sense from that angle.

Depends on what you think is more worthy to reward - the effort or the result. Traditionally it's been the latter.

[TypeR]

Congratz to Lappi!

[wwbroe]

Hyundai does win the two first rally's of the season

[Rallyper]

Fantastic rally by EP. Had him second, but what a victory!

[EstWRC]

Congrats Lappi! very mature and nice drive

Driver of the rally is Fourmaux for me, totally surprise he could kept the pace with fastest yesterday and didnt bin it.

Cyril vs Latvala 2-0 so far this season

[Rallyper]

Emotional.

[Eli]

Yesssss, well done to Lappi & Ferm, 6 & a half years in the waiting, huge congrats!!!!

[wwbroe]

Emotional.

Very understandable

[PLuto]

Good job by EP !

[Rallyper]

This pointscoring system is a catastrofy!! So so wrong, guys. Agree!

[wwbroe]

What about manufacturer points?

[rallyfiend]

We now have a points system that pushes the drivers to be fast all the time.

I see nothing wrong with that.

The rally winner is on total time, the points to the ones who win stages.

[meh]

Seems that we just have 2 different problems to choose from: boring Sundays or an unfair points system.

The new points system achieves its goal: it makes Sundays more interesting. I think today could be quite boring cruising to watch without the new point system. But.. is the outcome as points fair, not sure. It's anyway a different game now and everyone knows the rules.

The real problem is the lack of competitors and no cosmetic fix changes that.

[GigiGalliNo1]

The rally winner in Sweden is leaving with less points than the driver who finished second...

[PLuto]

We now have a points system that pushes the drivers to be fast all the time.

I see nothing wrong with that.

Thats not true. Because of current system, Lappi and Fourmaux were cruising today as they have nothing to win, only loose. Katsuta was not pushing also as he knows that first on the road he has no chance for any good result.

[PLuto]

Seems that we just have 2 different problems to choose from: boring Sundays or an unfair points system.

The new points system achieves its goal: it makes Sundays more interesting. I think today could be quite boring cruising to watch without the new point system. But.. is the outcome as points fair, not sure. It's anyway a different game now and everyone knows the rules.

The real problem is the lack of competitors and no cosmetic fix changes that.

Really do you think that this system makes Sunday more interesting?

[EstWRC]

Really do you think that this system makes Sunday more interesting?

you have to be blind not to see its more interesting

with old system they would have just cruised in the morning today, now you can see the drivers on the limit and pushing all stages, at least the top ones.

[CeskyOndra]

Thats not true. Because of current system, Lappi and Fourmaux were cruising today as they have nothing to win, only loose. Katsuta was not pushing also as he knows that first on the road he has no chance for any good result.

Lappi would have been cruising anyways and Katsuta was pushing, he made a mistake.

[doubled1978]

Great for Lappi, really pleased for him. I always like to see the underdog do well and we had Fourmaux up there as well, unexpectedly I would say.

The points thing is a bit of mess, I understand the idea but awarding Fourmaux 2nd place points for finishing 3rd is a nonsense. I’m sure others have previously said, for me better to award the rally points at the end, but keep the additional points for the sunday stages.
In this case it actually worked against Fourmaux trying on Sunday as he had already got the points for 2nd on Saturday, so didn’t want to push on Sunday….

[meh]

From the rally - it provided some fresh faces to the podium and stats. We can go to the pickems and see, how many predicted Fourmaux to be on the podium. (Not me, for sure).

The winter rally is anyway so unfair in many ways, like Neuville losing a crazy amount of time for opening the road.

The season is long, but Tänak has not been his life easy to achieve another title. From the title-fight perspective, Evans did really well and Neuville did good damage limitation for the already mentioned road-position disadvantage.

Nice battles in Rally2 behind Solberg's domination. Happy, and a bit surprised that Linnamäe was able to provide a good fight against Pajari. At the same time, Pajari was quite far away from Solberg.

[PLuto]

you have to be blind not to see its more interesting

with old system they would have just cruised in the morning today, now you can see the drivers on the limit and pushing all stages, at least the top ones.

Am I blind or you are?

[PLuto]

But in general, it was really interesting rally to follow. Finally we had proper winter conditions, with the weather it was really changeable and unpredictable, Rally2 drivers were able to be faster than Rally1, two fastest drivers crashed early on beginning of the rally. So in basic it was full of interesting stories, all the time something happened.

[Kras]

Are there standings available anywhere?

[meh]

Really do you think that this system makes Sunday more interesting?

Yes, I think so. At the same time, I'm not a fan of the new point system but I admin, and it makes Sundays more interesting.


Am I blind or you are?

I think you can do better.

[Tauri_J]

The rally winner in Sweden is leaving with less points than the driver who finished second...

So whats the problem with that?

I'm sure Esapekka had more than enough pace to take more points, but he didnt need to.

[denkimi]

so only the second rally and the point system already shows how screwed up it is.

lappi was the fastest over the entire distance, he should get the most points.

[EstWRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGnnppMXAAANkn5?format=png&name=900x900

[seb_sh]

Seems that we just have 2 different problems to choose from: boring Sundays or an unfair points system.

The new points system achieves its goal: it makes Sundays more interesting. I think today could be quite boring cruising to watch without the new point system. But.. is the outcome as points fair, not sure. It's anyway a different game now and everyone knows the rules.

The real problem is the lack of competitors and no cosmetic fix changes that.

please don't make this mistake, there are MANY better suggestions that would both incentivise sunday pushing and not have stupid results
it's not just these 2 options, there are better ways to do it

for me Sunday was not that much more interesting than before, except that drivers didn't say they are saving tyres and cruising at stage ends

[Tauri_J]

F1 has similar points system but I havent seen so much complaining

[seb_sh]

So in basic it was full of interesting stories, all the time something happened.

almost all of which were not brought by new points system just by the rally itself happening with mistakes and a variety of weather conditions

[meh]

You can keep your opinion, I can keep mine :)

[seb_sh]

F1 has similar points system

not at all!

[TypeR]

F1 has similar points system but I havent seen so much complaining
Emn.. no?
Sprint races have own points.
Main race on Sunday has 25-18 etc system + top10 driver with fastest lap gets +1p

[Morte66]

Seems that we just have 2 different problems to choose from: boring Sundays or an unfair points system.

The new points system achieves its goal: it makes Sundays more interesting. I think today could be quite boring cruising to watch without the new point system. But.. is the outcome as points fair, not sure. It's anyway a different game now and everyone knows the rules.

The real problem is the lack of competitors and no cosmetic fix changes that.

I wish I had written that.

[CeskyOndra]

nice meet the crews on rally tv now

[EstWRC]

this complaining here doesnt give anything, like FIA said they are monitorin it during the season and if needed they will change, so write to them if its anyway possible.

it was known before the season started that this may happen that the winner gets less points than others and i would say this weeks rally was crazy and different in that sense.

If it would have been Neuville, Evans or Tänak leading they wouldnt have cruised today as Lappi did.

Im not supporting the new system but im definitely supporting the Super Sunday, like i said i personally would have kept the old system and just added the Super Sunday.

[Tauri_J]

Emn.. no?
Sprint races have own points.
Main race on Sunday has 25-18 etc system + top10 driver with fastest lap gets +1p


not at all!

GP winner could take less points than 2nd GP finisher

[CeskyOndra]

this complaining here doesnt give anything, like FIA said they are monitorin it during the season and if needed they will change, so write to them if its anyway possible.

it was known before the season started that this may happen that the winner gets less points than others and i would say this weeks rally was crazy and different in that sense.

If it would have been Neuville, Evans or Tänak leading they wouldnt have cruised today as Lappi did.

Im not supporting the new system but im definitely supporting the Super Sunday, like i said i personally would have kept the old system and just added the Super Sunday.

this guy has the best opinions so far from this forum

[denkimi]

the main issue is that too much points are awarded for a way too short distance on sunday.

[TypeR]

GP winner could take less points than 2nd GP finisher

Sprint and main races are two separate races.

You win sprint race and put 8p in pocket. They are not put ,,on hold'" like wrc saturday evening leader 18points.

GP/main race winner gets most points.


But okay, wrong thread for that.

[Doon]

I don’t really care about F1’s points system. It’s not the same sport.

So, in the end Lappi 19pts for 1st. Evans 24pts for 2nd. This is some weird evolution of rallying to gain viewers, but it’s not going to work. If you don’t appreciate rallying for the cars and the speed they are driven at, you’re not going to be suddenly interested because of a points change.

[Corcaíoch]

the main issue is that too much points are awarded for a way too short distance on sunday.
This along with the failure to tell the story of the Sunday points and the battles it might be creating over the Sunday stages is really letting the possible value of the new system down.

[WRCStan]

So, in the end Lappi 19pts for 1st. Evans 24pts for 2nd. This is some weird evolution of rallying to gain viewers, but it’s not going to work.

It's a bit premature now, but with further evolution if WRC is a series of tests not a start to finish itinerary, and the rally winner is decided in a different way, it all could be a smart plan in the long run. I don't think this is seen as an end game by anybody.

[Kras]

It's a bit premature now, but with further evolution if WRC is a series of tests not a start to finish itinerary, and the rally winner is decided in a different way, it all could be a smart plan in the long run. I don't think this is seen as an end game by anybody.

Bold of you to assume they are thinking more than 2 weeks ahead

[Doon]

One thing I don’t understand, maybe someone can explain this, I keep hearing that the points system makes it more exciting on Sunday because the drivers don’t cruise for their current position. However, I was led to believe that the points scored on Saturday were only banked on the provision that a car finishes all of Sunday’s stage? So, surely if you score big on Saturday, you won’t take many risks on Sunday?

[deephouse]

This points have nothing to do with pushing on sundays. In reality only 3 drivers do have a chance for the title this year. So who exactly will push on sundays, besides them... if there is a chance? No one. If you compare the times of Monte and Sweden this year, you will all see, that Monte was more close in time battles than Sweden. So this sunday pushing is more about how all the drivers enter last day of rally, with what margin. I think that M-Sport guys, Katsuta, Hyundai, Toyota part-timers and drivers who rent rally1 cars will never push on sunday as they don't need to.

The biggest problem is maybe just reward more points overall or sunday points needs to be reduced. Or completely abandon the stupid idea.

But the stories this weekend. I just hope that promotor will realize that this need to be released to the whole world. Make many articles, videos, interviews, bloopers, expose more than rally1 category, brands, sponsors, drivers, co-drivers, mechanics, teams, key people... bring rallying to the world like they deserve in 2024. And fix the damn issues with All Live. It's about time.

[WRCStan]

Bold of you to assume they are thinking more than 2 weeks ahead

Some things seem inevitable when you zoom out and take in the bigger picture even if they're not thinking it. Still, I'd rather be bold than foolish to believe in touring itineraries having a future.

[WRCStan]

One thing I don’t understand, maybe someone can explain this, I keep hearing that the points system makes it more exciting on Sunday because the drivers don’t cruise for their current position. However, I was led to believe that the points scored on Saturday were only banked on the provision that a car finishes all of Sunday’s stage? So, surely if you score big on Saturday, you won’t take many risks on Sunday?

Depends on the dynamics of the rally and targets. If Saturday's points are enough for you and you don't mind X number of drivers taking your position that could sense. But if championship points are important why would you stop there? If Lappi is the example, his target was the rally win, and old and new points made no difference to his approach as he had the margin.

This conversation is going to be had again and again for the rest of the season with different dynamics appearing.

[WRCStan]

This points have nothing to do with pushing on sundays. In reality only 3 drivers do have a chance for the title this year. So who exactly will push on sundays, besides them... if there is a chance? No one. If you compare the times of Monte and Sweden this year, you will all see, that Monte was more close in time battles than Sweden. So this sunday pushing is more about how all the drivers enter last day of rally, with what margin. I think that M-Sport guys, Katsuta, Hyundai, Toyota part-timers and drivers who rent rally1 cars will never push on sunday as they don't need to.

The biggest problem is maybe just reward more points overall or sunday points needs to be reduced. Or completely abandon the stupid idea.

It's a good point but bring the Manufacturers' championship in for some added spice. It's where the other drivers come in.

[seb_sh]

Depends on the dynamics of the rally and targets. If Saturday's points are enough for you and you don't mind X number of drivers taking your position that could sense. But if championship points are important why would you stop there? If Lappi is the example, his target was the rally win, and old and new points made no difference to his approach as he had the margin.

This conversation is going to be had again and again for the rest of the season with different dynamics appearing.

Can't wait for when the Saturday leader gets a puncture on the first stage of Sunday changes a wheel losing 2 and a half minutes, then wins the PS and goes home with most points while finishing P6 overall. Better have your fire suit handy.

If they want to change the format then fine but do it in a less stupid way. There were plenty of ways to have a better system.

[Rallyper]

Hey! I have no complaints if Lappi got his 25 points plus points for Sunday. Now he got only 18 points for victory. Here we have the big fault, guys.

You have the old pointscoring system for o/a rally. AND points for Sunday only, plus PS points.

Do that and I will not protest.

As it is now it´s disaster.

[denkimi]

I don't understand why we even have a powerstage now if there are already points for sunday.

[Morte66]

Since we haven't discussed rules enough yet...

What about Neuville's position change with Evans? He kept the new running order the next day. It possibly kept Evans behind Formaux on Saturday costing 2 WDC/WCC points.

I'm sure it wasn't deliberate. But, now that it's happened, I wonder whether somebody might be tempted to do it deliberately in future.

I think the authorities should get ahead of that.

[Eli]

Hyundai does win the two first rally's of the season

First time ever they achieve that feat, it's also nice to see a different driver other than Tänak or Neuville win with Hyundai (yes Sordo won but that was 3+ years ago). Great to see Lappi back on the top step of the podium, it has been too long! The scoring system is messed up but we'll now have 6 (almost) weeks to discuss it and in 2 weeks we'll see the 'results' of the survey.

[denkimi]

Since we haven't discussed rules enough yet...

What about Neuville's position change with Evans? He kept the new running order the next day. It possibly kept Evans behind Formaux on Saturday costing 2 WDC/WCC points.

I'm sure it wasn't deliberate. But, now that it's happened, I wonder whether somebody might be tempted to do it deliberately in future.

I think the authorities should get ahead of that.
i don't understand why he didn't do it deliberately after or even before the first stage. he won the lost time back in just one stage.

[WRCStan]

Can't wait for when the Saturday leader gets a puncture on the first stage of Sunday changes a wheel losing 2 and a half minutes, then wins the PS and goes home with most points while finishing P6 overall. Better have your fire suit handy.

I didn't invent this system or implement it. I don't have to defend it, it isn't perfect. No system is else there wouldn't have been change. But I'm stuck with it, same as you are, and I'm trying to make reason out of it whilst leaving the whining to others, spare the odd sarcasm post in return. Doon asked a reasonable question, I tried to answer reasonably.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

At least with this points system the best overall driver during the whole rally got the most points (Evans), not the guy who mainly benefitted from a great road position (Lappi).

[WRCStan]

Hey! I have no complaints if Lappi got his 25 points plus points for Sunday. Now he got only 18 points for victory. Here we have the big fault, guys.

You have the old pointscoring system for o/a rally. AND points for Sunday only, plus PS points.

Do that and I will not protest.

As it is now it´s disaster.

May I ask, without wanting to appear like I'm defending this system... :\\

Thierry's win on pace pushed to the end in Monte, and Lappi's win in Sweden helped by road position and the attrition...

Are/should they be equally rewarded in the championship, not detracting from deservedness of the win?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The general consensus on X is about 10-1 against the new points system...

https://x.com/OfficialWRC/status/1759195889300656256?s=20

[Morte66]

So...

Evans drove hard and fast on all days and was rewarded with top points. I think he possibly drove ever-so-slightly too hard because he had quite a lot of hard knocks on snowbanks.

Lappi was handed the rally victory on a plate and didn't throw it away. He looked like a safe pair of hands, which is what Hyundai will want from their third driver, so good job.

Neuville did very well under the circumstances. He drove hard and fast, and didn't blow it. He looks very strong so far this season.

Fourmaux got third place on a plate. But he didn't blow it either, and he absolutely earned the 2nd on Saturday.

Rovanpera, Tanak and Katsuta blew it.

Munster has driven every stage of every rally, which is a success in his separate world.

Bertelli beat four Rally 1 drivers who were entered for points and had fun doing it. So that's a success in his world, too.

[seb_sh]

I didn't invent this system or implement it. I don't have to defend it, it isn't perfect. No system is else there wouldn't have been change. But I'm stuck with it, same as you are, and I'm trying to make reason out of it whilst leaving the whining to others, spare the odd sarcasm post in return. Doon asked a reasonable question, I tried to answer reasonably.

Sorry, I didn't intend to be negative to you personally or directly. Put it a different way, if you dislike the current whining, be prepared, it will probably get worse. Out of curiosity, I checked twitter where people reply directly the the official account posts and I believe I'm not exagerating when I say 90% of posts are negative and, being twitter, a lot more rude than here.

[becher]

Since we haven't discussed rules enough yet...

What about Neuville's position change with Evans? He kept the new running order the next day. It possibly kept Evans behind Formaux on Saturday costing 2 WDC/WCC points.

I'm sure it wasn't deliberate. But, now that it's happened, I wonder whether somebody might be tempted to do it deliberately in future.

I think the authorities should get ahead of that.

Stuff like this happened unashamedly deliberate in the past, I think there is a video of Burns having a "puncture". I don't get the uproar of the media and Evans about a technical problem, even if it would have been tactics it wouldn't be something unheard of.

[seb_sh]

is this a reliable source?

https://www.dn.se/sport/rallyforare-blev-av-med-korkortet-far-tavla/

apparently 17 drivers were fined for speeding, 3 got licence revoked, one of which is in the top class but not on the podium...

[Morte66]

I chose to support Pajari in WRC2 on the Thursday morning before Monte because I liked the sound of his name. I thought he was Hungarian, that's how much I knew about him.

I seem to have gotten lucky.

He did not look comfortable for a lot of this rally and did not talk like he was comfortable, but still came top of the pack who weren't Solberg-in-a-Skoda. So I think he must be quite quick. Then there's his SS12 onboard.

I don't know what rallies he's doing, or how to find out. Can anybody point me where to look?

He's in a Toyota but entered for "Printsport", which according to their website is a rally car rental company. Does anyone know if he has some sort of relationship with Toyota? Maybe they should get one.

He was obviously a bit lost on tarmac at Monte, so that needs fixing.


Oh, and well done Solberg. And Linnamae.

[BleAivano]

is this a reliable source?

https://www.dn.se/sport/rallyforare-blev-av-med-korkortet-far-tavla/

apparently 17 drivers were fined for speeding, 3 got licence revoked, one of which is in the top class but not on the podium...

It is a reliable source yes. It is based on a statement from regional police in Västerbotten. https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vasterbotten/polisen-tog-korkort-av-tre-rallyforare

[BleAivano]

the main issue is that too much points are awarded for a way too short distance on sunday.

no, the main issue is that Sunday is only three stages. If it were to be like stages on Sunday it would be more stages to try catch drivers in front. I think it's pretty meaningless to only have three staged on Sunday.
Should be at least 6 or skip Sundays entirely and have one more stage in Friday and two more on Saturday.

[Eli]

Hyundai shouldn’t have let Lappi go so slowly today, if even he were to be faster than Katsuta both in the overall time today and in the power stage it would be an extra 2 points, and minus 2 points for Toyota, ‘cause as it stand, they’re level on point despite Hyundai’s 2 wins.

[Tauri_J]

Hey! I have no complaints if Lappi got his 25 points plus points for Sunday. Now he got only 18 points for victory. Here we have the big fault, guys.

You have the old pointscoring system for o/a rally. AND points for Sunday only, plus PS points.

Do that and I will not protest.

As it is now it´s disaster.

Right now I like new scoring system.

You want all the points....you need to go all out whole rally. Like Neuville in Monte.

Lappi could have done it also but didnt need to, fine by me.

[TypeR]

Hyundai shouldn’t have let Lappi go so slowly today, if even he were to be faster than Katsuta both in the overall time today and in the power stage it would be an extra 2 points, and minus 2 points for Toyota, ‘cause as it stand, they’re level on point despite Hyundai’s 2 wins.
Katsuta didn't bring any points to the team, so it didn't matter.

[mknight]

Well, when we get to rough gravel rallies the real fun will start.

Something like Turkey 2020 came to mind. After Saturday Evans was 4th, then in Sunday all the guys ahead got punctures (or retired).

Imagine if it was only punctures and he would also just cruise on Sunday.

With this scoring he would "win" the rally but get points for 4th place on Saturday and maybe a few for 4th-ish on Sunday.
Kinda awkward podium ceremony.

I believe the situation where "winner" after Saturday drops behind to secure points will be quite common this year.

[Eli]

Katsuta didn't bring any points to the team, so it didn't matter.

yeah, later I saw it, still weird that a win can earn you less points than second place... and almost the same amount as third.

[eib1]

new vs old scoring system in numbers:

https://i.ibb.co/PFy27WF/points-swe.jpg

[Backa]

I think just one little change would make this points system much better - at the end of rally, winner's score being upgraded to 30 points.

We would keep benefits of new points system without having weird situations like today. Also gap between winner and 2nd would be bigger when winner dominates, like Estonia 2023 and smaller in rallies like Sweden 2024, when leader kept things safe on sunday. That could be interesting.

It would not hurt if there would be more kms on sundays and maybe less on fridays.

Overall, point system is not that bad and it doesn't make sense to demand from it that it will make every sunday super exciting. Outside rally winner thing, it seems to have potential to reduce cruising.

[CeskyOndra]

Personally, I have not a big problem with new point system.. But I can't stand that 90% of people are angry and dissapointed - this will ruin the sport, we need change.

change? it is easy..

- just cancel points after Saturday and give them points overall after Sunday, as always.. (25,18,15..)..
- lets keep "super sunday" , both sundays this year were great.

if they would do this, then it will be even better than old system..

still 2nd placed driver can has more points than the first, but it is like this and I cant see other solution..

who agree?

[RS]

- just cancel points after Saturday and give them points overall after Sunday, as always.. (25,18,15..)..
- lets keep "super sunday" , both sundays this year were great.


This would be better. Effectively nothing for winning the actual rally is wrong.

[EstWRC]

Rallyechrono vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otqssqfUcNs

[Mirek]

I was skiing today not following the stages and I can tell you that if you, who followed the stages live, find the system ridiculous, just imagine how you'd feel about it if you learned the results in hindsight. You'd think you smoked some proper shit...


The points system is easy enough but it needs to be made clear for new fans that each rally is now like two separate scoring events.But the question is whether its devaluing the overall win.

I said it already but any system which needs to be made clear for the fans is inherently stupid.


lol is this real or photoshop?

It's Bosch AeroTwin I guess, just bought in a Volvo shop which is funny anyway. Volvo doesn't produce windscreen wipers.

[EstWRC]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240218/b9134bf95eba3c5174a0675ccfaca4d6.jpg

[Rallyper]

May I ask, without wanting to appear like I'm defending this system... :\\

Thierry's win on pace pushed to the end in Monte, and Lappi's win in Sweden helped by road position and the attrition...

Are/should they be equally rewarded in the championship, not detracting from deservedness of the win?

If you ask me: my answer could be read in my post. Points for overall + points for Sunday only + for PS. Overall points if I read it right gave EP 18 p; my proposition i EP should´ve had 25 + X+X...

[Rallyper]

is this a reliable source?

https://www.dn.se/sport/rallyforare-blev-av-med-korkortet-far-tavla/

apparently 17 drivers were fined for speeding, 3 got licence revoked, one of which is in the top class but not on the podium...

I guess it is.

[Rallyper]

Right now I like new scoring system.

You want all the points....you need to go all out whole rally. Like Neuville in Monte.

Lappi could have done it also but didnt need to, fine by me.

How do you measure that? "Going all out"? He wanted o/a points of course, but wasn´t rewarded for it.

[CeskyOndra]

If you ask me: my answer could be read in my post. Points for overall + points for Sunday only + for PS. Overall points if I read it right gave EP 18 p; my proposition i EP should´ve had 25 + X+X...

actually if you have such a great weekend, you can achieve 37 points.. (neuville monte) .. this is so so much

[Myrvold]

actually if you have such a great weekend, you can achieve 37 points.. (neuville monte) .. this is so so much

But isn't that what it is meant to encourage? Pushing on all stages and having success doing so? Then a big points hauld be fair?

[stavrosGDB]

Nice rally,happy to see Fourmaux for first time on podium and EP for second time after some years in 1st place(pickems all over the place but hey this is rally),congrats on Linnamae too.Oliver lately is impressive speed-consistency wise.I think will have a close battle for drivers championship between Neuville and Evans this year.

[Rallyper]

actually if you have such a great weekend, you can achieve 37 points.. (neuville monte) .. this is so so much

Actually if you have such a great weekend and not even score most points (EP), what kind of points scoring system have you invented? This is too much calypso, for me...

[Backa]

Actually if you have such a great weekend and not even score most points (EP), what kind of points scoring system have you invented? This is too much calypso, for me...

To be fair, if EP would care more about getting points instead of securing win, he would take more risks on sunday. Maybe it would pay off, maybe he would end up crashing. Anyway, it's not like he discovered how point system works after rally.

From WRC championship standings point of view, Evans is de facto Rally Sweden winner.

[Rallyper]

To be fair, if EP would care more about getting points instead of securing win, he would take more risks on sunday. Maybe it would pay off, maybe he would end up crashing. Anyway, it's not like he discovered how point system works after rally.

From WRC championship standings point of view, Evans is de facto Rally Sweden winner.

Big no.

EP won. Championship could not be decided from whom is most idiot. Securing win is absolutely much more than what you see on tele. Saying Evans is Rally Sweden winner is the most craziest I ever heard so far from anyone.

[Backa]

Big no.

EP won. Championship could not be decided from whom is most idiot. Securing win is absolutely much more than what you see on tele. Saying Evans is Rally Sweden winner is the most craziest I ever heard so far from anyone.

From WRC championship standings point of view, he is de facto winner as he gets more points that counts into championship standings. I don't like, I already said system should be corrected to avoid situations like that but it is what it is.

[CeskyOndra]

Big no.

EP won. Championship could not be decided from whom is most idiot. Securing win is absolutely much more than what you see on tele. Saying Evans is Rally Sweden winner is the most craziest I ever heard so far from anyone.

win is a win and it doesn't matter how was achieved.. lets hope for some kind of change before the next rally

[Morte66]

When do the results stop being "provisional" (or whatever the term is) and go on the WRC website?

[TypeR]

To be fair, if EP would care more about getting points instead of securing win, he would take more risks on sunday. Maybe it would pay off, maybe he would end up crashing. Anyway, it's not like he discovered how point system works after rally.

From WRC championship standings point of view, Evans is de facto Rally Sweden winner.


From WRC championship standings point of view, he is de facto winner as he gets more points that counts into championship standings. I don't like, I already said system should be corrected to avoid situations like that but it is what it is.
Good you learned some fancy Latin phrases..
De facto, de iure, de everythingo Lappi did 18 stages in less overall time than Evans(and everybody else) and is tge rally winner.
By the rules Evans was faster on ,,last leg'' of the rally and managed to get more points. That's it.
Wheter one likes the rules or not, you don't have to start talking nonsense :D

[Devillersvideo]

Best of WRC Sweden 2024 video :D First time for me with snow :p

https://youtu.be/wIFo1RGrGsI

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I find myself agreeing with Luke Barry @lukebarry97 on the new points system...

I feel like I’m in a minority, and I never expected to say this, but I don’t mind it. If anything I’d argue it helps put the onus on the championship fight, which Lappi isn’t in, while Evans/Neuville were able to offset their road order disadvantage and outscore a non-title contender

[TypeR]

When do the results stop being "provisional" (or whatever the term is) and go on the WRC website?
Final classification is availqble for some time on Rally Sweden notice board..

[focus206]

Impressed by Fourmaux's speed, even when considering the starting position. Very solid work by Lappi too.
Next is Safari, it will be time to see if Hyundai closed somewhat the gap in reliability or if "amazing quality" persists...

[Morte66]

Final classification is availqble for some time on Rally Sweden notice board..

Thank you, but I am now more confused than ever. I look here https://www.wrc.com/result-and-standings?menu=championshipStandingComponent&eventId=447 and it has not incorporated Sweden.

Oh well, ewrc has it.

[paddocknews]

Rally Sweden 2024 | Flat Out & Action | 4K
https://youtu.be/HIjGS32f-mo?si=1DZw_Bv1-lSxCa71

[Backa]

By the rules Evans managed to get more points.

And that's the whole issue. We both know Evans, Neuville and Tanak are focused on title fight and would prefer to be in Evans' shoes in Sweden than Lappi's. Winner should be rewarded the most, if 2nd driver is rewarded more, he is winner "from WRC championship standings point of view". Those are crucial words from my post that you are ignoring.

I agree Lappi is rally winner from common sense point of view but current point system is not common sense.

System can be easily corrected by giving rally winner strictly 30 points, no matter if it means adding 0 points to Neuville's Monte Carlo win or 11 points to Lappi's win but I doubt there is chance it will be changed midway through the season.

[jparker]

Cruising in WRC should stop, so I don't see anything wrong with the new points system.
Congrats Evans for winning rally Sweden.

[fiscorpun]

Best of WRC Sweden 2024 video :D First time for me with snow :p

https://youtu.be/wIFo1RGrGsI

Its CRIMINAL how the promoter doesnt use footage from people like you or dont film like fans right at the edge of the tracks to have an even better highlight. These are the greatest footages in motorsport, PERIOD. Its like... they PROMOTE a sport that have the coolest kind of footage IN THE WORLD, but they CHOOSE not to use it... Its unbeliveable.
AMAZING shots mate. Rally is incredible

[TypeR]

Cruising in WRC should stop, so I don't see anything wrong with the new points system.
Congrats Evans for winning rally Sweden.
Just stupid.


If Kalle hadn't made a mistake and won it, then he would have been a superb, rally king drive.. but now if Lappi WON THE RALLY SWEDEN, then it is suddenly nothing? Cut the crap. If he needed the points, he would have driven faster, but he needed/wanted the win and had enough gap to 2nd place so he could slow down like he did.

[CeskyOndra]

Cruising in WRC should stop, so I don't see anything wrong with the new points system.
Congrats Evans for winning rally Sweden.

Evans didn't win..

[CeskyOndra]

https://www.instagram.com/stories/rallytrollpage/3305701890568897286?igsh=MWYybWIxZTQ5aGdtOA==

Something for fun, hope you can open it

[240RS]

If we put the pros and cons debate aside for a while and delve into finding the most suitable event strategy, an interesting array of options become apparent.
A cautions drive through all of Friday and early Saturday, and then an attack in the afternoon and all of Sunday, would appear the most optimal system. You benefit when those charging drop off or out, and leaves you with only 25-30% of the mileage to attack. In essence you reduce the risk mileage.
The current system is actually benefitting those with long-term strategies

[focus206]

Cruising in WRC should stop


Why? It's part of the vast majority of motorsports. 24 hours of Le Mans is a popular and beloved event, yet leaders cruise for the several final hours more often than not.

[WRCStan]

Why? It's part of the vast majority of motorsports. 24 hours of Le Mans is a popular and beloved event, yet leaders cruise for the several final hours more often than not.

Has people glued to their screens for the duration I'm sure.

[focus206]

Has people glued to their screens for the duration I'm sure.

Definitely, plenty of people follow the whole race, or as long as they can. Probably they're mature enough to understand that cruising and easy wins are a possibility and part of motorsport.

[WRCStan]

Not talking about the whole race nor other competitors, nor what cruising is or easy wins, or what motorsport typically involves: Context is, why would a typical fan watch TV for several hours at the end of the 24 a car they know to be cruising and isn't racing?

You say plenty of people, I say only a dedicated minority and it's not a good way to stimulate stories, excitement, growth of the series...

[focus206]

why would a typical fan watch TV for several hours at the end of the 24 a car they know to be cruising and isn't racing?

You say plenty of people, I say only a dedicated minority and it's not a good way to stimulate stories, excitement, growth of the series...

Because if a motorsport fan, even not a hardcore one, decides to watch the 24 hours of Le Mans, they know more or less what to expect. They know someone might win by a big margin and might not push. But the great majority of typical fans won't stop watching, because there are other battles to follow on the track, there's the unpredictability of spins, crashes, technical troubles, safety cars, lapped cars getting in the way. And most of all, because a typical motorsport fan loves racing and racing cars.
If instead a Mustang loving Joe from Alabama casually stumbles upon a Le Mans broadcast and gets quickly bored because there are no car pile-ups and super close racing like in NASCAR... who cares? Endurance racing, rallying and most motorsports are not for him and there's no point in changing them to appeal to him. I don't find basketball entertaining and there's nothing the basketball federation of the universe can do to make me watch a game, period.
Sunday cruising is such a small problem that even if you "solve" it with weird point system, you won't see a difference in the fanbase. I highly doubt anybody will say "Oh Sundays used to be so boring, now some of the drivers push more for those 3-4 stages"

[MentalParadox]

Just watched today's events. I'm completely disgusted that the rally winner gets (significantly!) fewer points than the guy who finished second. That should NEVER happen imo. If I was in charge, I would have:

Super Saturday, points awarded to top 10 (10, 9, 8, 7, ...)
Super Sunday, points awarded to top 10 (10, 9, 8, 7, ...)
At the end of the rally, cumulative times from the three days still result in an overal winner being crowned, and points being awarded to the top 10 (25, 18, 15, ...)
So maximum points in a rally would be 50 (10 + 10 + 25 + 5).

That way, you get the "extra incentive" provided by the "Super" days, so the guys in settled positions at the end of Friday don't just cruise to the finish, but the big overall points at the end ensure the overall win will still weight the most. The "Super" points are just that, bonuses, incentives.

[Myrvold]

Cruising in WRC should stop, so I don't see anything wrong with the new points system.
Congrats Evans for winning rally Sweden.

But we had cruising on Saturday and Sunday at Monte and in Sweden this year?

[Myrvold]

Not talking about the whole race nor other competitors, nor what cruising is or easy wins, or what motorsport typically involves: Context is, why would a typical fan watch TV for several hours at the end of the 24 a car they know to be cruising and isn't racing?

You say plenty of people, I say only a dedicated minority and it's not a good way to stimulate stories, excitement, growth of the series...

Yet, WEC is the series that has grown most the last couple of years with the new rule package. The problem for WRC isn't that some drivers go safe on some stages...

[seb_sh]

Reading the debates here, twitter, dirtfish comments section, reddit, I can't help but feel they've put the cart before the horse again. So there is sometimes Sunday cruising due to big gaps. Instead of a small incentive they've come up with this system which like it or hate it has managed to absolutely stir everyone up and divide the fans. Just because of that it has failed. If there were a few moaners they could get over it but literally 90% of replies are negative opinions about the points.

https://twitter.com/OfficialWRC/status/1759195889300656256?t=RxMDXhu0VVMH5gLnW0xTpA&s=19

[WRC1]

Not talking about the whole race nor other competitors, nor what cruising is or easy wins, or what motorsport typically involves: Context is, why would a typical fan watch TV for several hours at the end of the 24 a car they know to be cruising and isn't racing?

You say plenty of people, I say only a dedicated minority and it's not a good way to stimulate stories, excitement, growth of the series...

24hours race is a good example, what would people say if the one who drives the fastest Laps in the last hour of the race earns more points for LeMans Series than the winner...?? complete Nonsense, in Rallying we have exactly this...i think it should be changed as soon as possible, winner of Overall Event must get the most points.

Kalle has retired on Friday, gets 11 points, EP won the Rallye, drove every single stage and gets 8 points more??? this is not fair, this is Bullshit.

[flat_right]

Has there been any video of Rovanperä's Friday incident? Onboard etc?

[Rallyper]

Best of WRC Sweden 2024 video :D First time for me with snow :p

https://youtu.be/wIFo1RGrGsI

Very good filming. I could almost smell fumes from leaking gearoil, dusty snow, exhaust fumes... And the speed!

[becher]

Not talking about the whole race nor other competitors, nor what cruising is or easy wins, or what motorsport typically involves: Context is, why would a typical fan watch TV for several hours at the end of the 24 a car they know to be cruising and isn't racing?

You say plenty of people, I say only a dedicated minority and it's not a good way to stimulate stories, excitement, growth of the series...

The question is if you want motorsport or a over the top show? In the past rallies were rarely a fight to the finish, cruising was normal, with five minute gaps like we had quite often in the past drivers usually knew it didn't make sense to push like mad. We just don't remember it because there was no All live/Rally TV. By the current logic of plenty of people around here rallying as a sport should have been killed off by 1977 or so.

[Rallyper]

Alongside pointscoring discussion - wasn´t it a very good rally Sweden? Good PR for snowrallies, weather, 360´s; you had it all. Also good coverage from RallyTV.

I enjoyed Rally Sweden a lot from my computer.

[Morte66]

Alongside pointscoring discussion - wasn´t it a very good rally Sweden? Good PR for snowrallies, weather, 360´s; you had it all. Also good coverage from RallyTV.

I enjoyed Rally Sweden a lot from my computer.

Yes, same here.

I think it's lucky the falling snow only lasted one afternoon. One WRC2 stage winner is a story, a couple of days of it would make me think "This is getting silly".

And it helped that both my guys (Evans and Pajari) were in the battles.

But mostly I just like it being a snow rally. I like watching them. Monte and Sweden have always been my favourites.

[becher]

Alongside pointscoring discussion - wasn´t it a very good rally Sweden? Good PR for snowrallies, weather, 360´s; you had it all. Also good coverage from RallyTV.

I enjoyed Rally Sweden a lot from my computer.

Agree, both Monte and Sweden were very entertaining.

[wyler]

Sunday cruising is such a small problem that even if you "solve" it with weird point system, you won't see a difference in the fanbase. I highly doubt anybody will say "Oh Sundays used to be so boring, now some of the drivers push more for those 3-4 stages"

that's very wrong. last time i saw a live wrc event (italy 2023) a lot, really a lot of fans on site just bypassed sunday morning, 'cause it was terrible. power stage aside, other stages were dull. i must admit i was very disappointed as well, going to see a wrc takes some effort, and that was really a waste of it. i don't blame the sporting side, drivers are sensible to cruise on sunday, but sideroad it was disappointing. it was almost the feeling of a stopped stage for many drivers. i remember something like sordo down 1 min in 10 km "tyre management". when you're out to see the only live action u can get in a year, it makes huge difference to the fan base.

EDIT: to be clear, what i mean is sunday cruise was so extreme to become a problem. it was extremely visible. i don't mind cruising when it is "normal" (losing 5-10-15 sec in a stage) sideroad looks like a fast car anyway, losing 1min made the car look wrong.

[Backa]

I am not sure about 24hours being good example, it's way different event than WRC rally divided into multiple special stages.

In WRC it's much easier to reduce cruising, make end of saturday and sunday more interesting and securing most points for winner than in WEC. They just disregard rally winner reward issue and should correct that.


The question is if you want motorsport or a over the top show? In the past rallies were rarely a fight to the finish, cruising was normal, with five minute gaps like we had quite often in the past drivers usually knew it didn't make sense to push like mad. We just don't remember it because there was no All live/Rally TV. By the current logic of plenty of people around here rallying as a sport should have been killed off by 1977 or so.

Reducing cruising is not equal to making WRC "over the top show". It's possible to improve entertainment value of latter stages while keeping competitive spirit.

Something working for 1977 doesn't mean it would work well in 2024 too. Access to follow different sports is easier nowadays.

[CeskyOndra]

Alongside pointscoring discussion - wasn´t it a very good rally Sweden? Good PR for snowrallies, weather, 360´s; you had it all. Also good coverage from RallyTV.

I enjoyed Rally Sweden a lot from my computer.

No big mistakes from Rally.TV, this season started really well in terms of entertainment.

[Jarek Z]

The question is if you want motorsport or a over the top show? In the past rallies were rarely a fight to the finish, cruising was normal, with five minute gaps like we had quite often in the past drivers usually knew it didn't make sense to push like mad. We just don't remember it because there was no All live/Rally TV. By the current logic of plenty of people around here rallying as a sport should have been killed off by 1977 or so.

Exactly. Look at this:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/1593-rallye-automobile-monte-carlo-1980/

Walter Roehrl wins and his competitors lose 10 or 20 minutes. Roehrl is cruising! Rallying as a sport is dead! It should be killed off! Where are power stage points?! Sunday points! New points system!!!

[wyler]

Exactly. Look at this:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/1593-rallye-automobile-monte-carlo-1980/

Walter Roehrl wins and his competitors lose 10 or 20 minutes. Roehrl is cruising! Rallying as a sport is dead! It should be killed off! Where are power stage points?! Sunday points! New points system!!!

i don't think the issue is sportwise. in 80ies a cruising car was still a good look. now is not (when extreme cruising)

[Jarek Z]

i don't think the issue is sportwise. in 80ies a cruising car was still a good look. now is not (when extreme cruising)

So by this comment you admit that it is not cruising or a points system that is the issue, but something else.

[WRC1]

i don't think the issue is sportwise. in 80ies a cruising car was still a good look. now is not (when extreme cruising)

i highly disagree!! cruising in the 80ies means someone had a lead of MINUTES and really cruised through the stages....cruising now means that Lappi for example looses 1sec/km to the Top Guys....and the normal Rallye Fan on the stage will not see a difference! a cruising Lappi is still faster than a 100% driving Rally2, so not that big difference!

[wyler]

i highly disagree!! cruising in the 80ies means someone had a lead of MINUTES and really cruised through the stages....cruising now means that Lappi for example looses 1sec/km to the Top Guys....and the normal Rallye Fan on the stage will not see a difference! a cruising Lappi is still faster than a 100% driving Rally2, so not that big difference!

nope. sunday cruising was definitely visible last year. this year idk, missed monte and will see live events later on...
anyway, my point was general, not on sweden. as i said, i've nothing against cruising if it's still enjoyable to watch, but that was not the case last year.

[wyler]

So by this comment you admit that it is not cruising or a points system that is the issue, but something else.

er...i admit what i think and say in all of my posts. i've nothing against the new point system (maybe i would prefer a less prominent sunday reward and a more overall related balance, but still, i don't mind it that much). i'm against some extreme exploitation of rules that penalize the whole rally complex (sporting and show together). no more!

[Eli]

If anything I wish the rally was longer and ended in the evening, have a proper 100-110 kms of stages on Sunday, seems a bit 'meh' to me, especially when you consider you only have a 5km stage on Thursday night. Really not looking forwards to Sardegna, can't wait for Kenya though!

[focus206]

that's very wrong. last time i saw a live wrc event (italy 2023) a lot, really a lot of fans on site just bypassed sunday morning, 'cause it was terrible. power stage aside, other stages were dull. i must admit i was very disappointed as well, going to see a wrc takes some effort, and that was really a waste of it. i don't blame the sporting side, drivers are sensible to cruise on sunday, but sideroad it was disappointing. it was almost the feeling of a stopped stage for many drivers. i remember something like sordo down 1 min in 10 km "tyre management". when you're out to see the only live action u can get in a year, it makes huge difference to the fan base.

EDIT: to be clear, what i mean is sunday cruise was so extreme to become a problem. it was extremely visible. i don't mind cruising when it is "normal" (losing 5-10-15 sec in a stage) sideroad looks like a fast car anyway, losing 1min made the car look wrong.

You are talking about fans who go watch the event live for the weekend, which are a fraction of the fans who are following the event remotely - and the first contact that a fan has with rallysport is almost always from far away, especially in this day and age. You usually won't go from barely knowing rallying to spectating a WRC event in the blink of an eye, there's lots inbetween.
New fans or fans that are not so passionate (yet) to go to a WRC event will instead rely on highlights (almost non-existant, which is a problem), free coverage to follow some stages and have an idea how WRC works (non-existant, which is a problem) and All-Live. And I guarantee they'll ask way more often "Why only 8 cars in the top class?" than "Why are drivers going slower in the last stages of the rally?", if they can even notice drivers going slower, that is.
Hence my point: you "solve" this Sunday cruising problem and you'll see little effect on the fanbase. More people stay on the stages on Sunday morning? That's not much at all.

[wyler]

You are talking about fans who go watch the event live for the weekend, which are a fraction of the fans who are following the event remotely - and the first contact that a fan has with rallysport is almost always from far away, especially in this day and age. You usually won't go from barely knowing rallying to spectating a WRC event in the blink of an eye, there's lots inbetween.
New fans or fans that are not so passionate (yet) to go to a WRC event will instead rely on highlights (almost non-existant, which is a problem), free coverage to follow some stages and have an idea how WRC works (non-existant, which is a problem) and All-Live. And I guarantee they'll ask way more often "Why only 8 cars in the top class?" than "Why are drivers going slower in the last stages of the rally?", if they can even notice drivers going slower, that is.
Hence my point: you "solve" this Sunday cruising problem and you'll see little effect on the fanbase. More people stay on the stages on Sunday morning? That's not much at all.

that's a bit mixed up. some things are true, others are totally unrelated.
true that most of casual fans occur from far away, but they are also fans with little to no interest in how points are collected. they are ok with a classification. regulation is on hard fans, that most likely follow roadside.
for new fans, official footage is getting ok, like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxlpMvWndh4. The same goes for how it works, there was some special content on official media, that was ok as an introduction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XQeec-c9k4 shakedown is free, so non-existent is a bit too harsh. You seem to underestimate the effect of having fans in the tv coverage. The best way to convince a show is good is to see people there. proves that the most engaging content from monte was people and fireworks on the tourniquets, way more than results. as u said correctly, new fans/general fans get in love with the atmosphere, best way to boost the feeling is to have real participation shown on tv. also, i don't have data from rallytv obviously, but thinking that there are similar fans on a loop of stages than on rally tv could be not so ridiculous. generic tv is another thing.

[Backa]

You are talking about fans who go watch the event live for the weekend, which are a fraction of the fans who are following the event remotely - and the first contact that a fan has with rallysport is almost always from far away, especially in this day and age. You usually won't go from barely knowing rallying to spectating a WRC event in the blink of an eye, there's lots inbetween.
New fans or fans that are not so passionate (yet) to go to a WRC event will instead rely on highlights (almost non-existant, which is a problem), free coverage to follow some stages and have an idea how WRC works (non-existant, which is a problem) and All-Live. And I guarantee they'll ask way more often "Why only 8 cars in the top class?" than "Why are drivers going slower in the last stages of the rally?", if they can even notice drivers going slower, that is.
Hence my point: you "solve" this Sunday cruising problem and you'll see little effect on the fanbase. More people stay on the stages on Sunday morning? That's not much at all.

It's not that hard for new fan watching on rally.tv to realize if midway through the rally, gaps between drivers became safe enough to not push. Even commentary and post-stage interviews don't hide it.

And it's not like only viewiership of new fans is affected. Not all old fans are so hardcore to keep watching sunday, if they think results are pretty much already decided and expect sunday stages to be uneventful cruise.

New point system is improving that issue quite well. It created rally winner points issue but it's not that hard to make extra rule to solve that problem.

[Rallyper]

I´d say it´s two kinds of cruising. The one you can easily tell by looking and promoted by Becs. You can hear car is not working at full throttle, etz.

The other kind of "cruising" is nothing average Joe can be aware of by just watching RallyTV. Or not even as spectator. The latter I don´t mind.

[focus206]

that's a bit mixed up. some things are true, others are totally unrelated.
true that most of casual fans occur from far away, but they are also fans with little to no interest in how points are collected. they are ok with a classification. regulation is on hard fans, that most likely follow roadside.
for new fans, official footage is getting ok, like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxlpMvWndh4. The same goes for how it works, there was some special content on official media, that was ok as an introduction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XQeec-c9k4 shakedown is free, so non-existent is a bit too harsh. You seem to underestimate the effect of having fans in the tv coverage. The best way to convince a show is good is to see people there. proves that the most engaging content from monte was people and fireworks on the tourniquets, way more than results. as u said correctly, new fans/general fans get in love with the atmosphere, best way to boost the feeling is to have real participation shown on tv. also, i don't have data from rallytv obviously, but thinking that there are similar fans on a loop of stages than on rally tv could be not so ridiculous. generic tv is another thing.

Everyone who starts following rallying and have an interest in the championship will care about the points scored. You don't pass from casually watching a couple of rally videos to travelling to spectate WRC events, there's a huge portion of fans inbetween, the good majority I'd say.
That official footage you linked is raw footage, not highlights. Highlights allow you to follow what's happening during the rally, with times, couple of short interviews, tyre strategies info etc... what we have right now are short day highlights that go "Rovanpera pushed a lot this afternoon" while showing Rovanpera driving for 10 seconds. Plenty of fans, who mostly aren't going abroad to follow WRC live nor are paying to watch All Live, ask for more, but they'll probably get nothing.
It's true that I might underestimating the effect of spectators in the coverage, as I don't care much to see fans or not on stages when I'm following the rally live.

[focus206]

It's not that hard for new fan watching on rally.tv to realize if midway through the rally, gaps between drivers became safe enough to not push. Even commentary and post-stage interviews don't hide it.

And it's not like only viewiership of new fans is affected. Not all old fans are so hardcore to keep watching sunday, if they think results are pretty much already decided and expect sunday stages to be uneventful cruise.

New point system is improving that issue quite well. It created rally winner points issue but it's not that hard to make extra rule to solve that problem.

They might realize it, for sure not all of them. And those who realize might, probably, not complain nor think it's a problem that needs a solution, because it's normal and natural.
The new point system is tackling a small problem while creating a big problem. I have seen a couple of videos popping up on YouTube along the lines of "the new WRC point system is stupid", while I've never seen anybody convinced that Sunday cruising is a huge problem that needs a solution/revolution of the point system.
I've always been for a Power Sunday instead of Power Stage, like others in this forum, which I think is sensible.

[Backa]

I've never seen anybody convinced that Sunday cruising is a huge problem that needs a solution/revolution of the point system.
I've always been for a Power Sunday instead of Power Stage, like others in this forum, which I think is sensible.

Well, isn't idea of replacing Power Stage with Power Sunday exactly about resolving problem of sunday cruising?

FIA just took changes too far.

[focus206]

Well, isn't idea of replacing Power Stage with Power Sunday exactly about resolving problem of sunday cruising?

FIA just took changes too far.

Yes, and I think it's more fair to assign bonus points over 3-4 stages rather than 1. No need for revolutions that create other problems. But don't expect WRC to gain any noticeable amount of fans for Power Sunday or anything similar, problems are elsewhere.

[Corcaíoch]

I might have missed it here with all the discussion of the points system but surprised not to see more mention of Solberg's performance.
I've been critical of him in the past but I felt he did exactly what people should be looking for from him if he is to step back up to Rally 1. Very quick almost dominant display but most importantly a controlled drive. The type of situation were in the past I would have expected amazing stage times but mistakes and possibly offs but tbis was a much maturer display. Very early in the season yet but an excellent start to be fair.

[wyler]

Everyone who starts following rallying and have an interest in the championship will care about the points scored. You don't pass from casually watching a couple of rally videos to travelling to spectate WRC events, there's a huge portion of fans inbetween, the good majority I'd say.
That official footage you linked is raw footage, not highlights. Highlights allow you to follow what's happening during the rally, with times, couple of short interviews, tyre strategies info etc... what we have right now are short day highlights that go "Rovanpera pushed a lot this afternoon" while showing Rovanpera driving for 10 seconds. Plenty of fans, who mostly aren't going abroad to follow WRC live nor are paying to watch All Live, ask for more, but they'll probably get nothing.
It's true that I might underestimating the effect of spectators in the coverage, as I don't care much to see fans or not on stages when I'm following the rally live.

you're mixing up again, hardcore fans and casual fans, i think! a lot of people doesn't care in the standings, they're ok with the end-of-day classification. they look for the action. most of the time roadside there's no access to the classification and nobody really cares. same concept is for highlights vs raw footage. if you want engagement and number, you go with raw. highlights is for next step fans, that can/want probably invest in rallytv to keep updated.
then people will always ask for free services, doesn't mean is the better model...

[ToKu]

Everyone who starts following rallying and have an interest in the championship will care about the points scored. You don't pass from casually watching a couple of rally videos to travelling to spectate WRC events, there's a huge portion of fans inbetween, the good majority I'd say.


I disagree. In Poland we even got a rally saying "Nie ważne kto, ważne żeby zapierdalał." That translates: It doesn't matter who is driving it matters how is he driving while passing Your spot." It worked for me. I usually got some favourite drivers, but... it doesn't really matter who won, who is on top. Rally is great outdoor fun, regardless of final standings. Unlike football, match that was lost by Your team is rarely a game You would call "great game" and time spent was "fantastic". WRC in Poland was great in 2014 - 2017 despite the fact that Kubica produced dissapointing results. Main negative feeling was stage lost in first day of 2017. We had great spot, but stage was cancelled. As for results I was not dissapointed, nor glad. Results are not something that matters to me. Epic driving on the edge - is.

BTW. One of UNIQUE features of rallies is that fans are real part of the show. Their actions can have impact on results. And I mean helping a car back to the stage, and not behaviours that result in cancelation of stages. Thousands of people living for days in tents on a stage side is also feature that is rarely seen in other sports. Dedication of fans and them being a part of a show (not only a background) is also a something that can be a foundation (or one of the foundations) of campaign to "Make rallies great again!"

BTW2 but judging from the behaviour of ERC TV crews (POLAND 2023) and WRC TV (ESTONIA 2022 and in 2023 to even bigger degree), they've been told not to show fans if possible. Look at the Kanepi stage 2023, series of jumps before finish. Many highlights from the spot. Most with no fans or very few fans. I must tell You, there was a sea of people. One of the most crowded spots I ever been to in lat 10 years. But in the highlights fans are seen only after the last jump. IMHO opinion it is because it was biggest of jumps, and they could not frame the picture in a way that fans were oustside the frame.

The post was chaotic, I'm sorry for that. But what I was trying to say in the first place is that people are watching rallies for different reasons then other typical sports.

[focus206]

I disagree. In Poland we even got a rally saying "Nie ważne kto, ważne żeby zapierdalał." That translates: It doesn't matter who is driving it matters how is he driving while passing Your spot." It worked for me. I usually got some favourite drivers, but... it doesn't really matter who won, who is on top. Rally is great outdoor fun, regardless of final standings. Unlike football, match that was lost by Your team is rarely a game You would call "great game" and time spent was "fantastic". WRC in Poland was great in 2014 - 2017 despite the fact that Kubica produced dissapointing results. Main negative feeling was stage lost in first day of 2017. We had great spot, but stage was cancelled. As for results I was not dissapointed, nor glad. Results are not something that matters to me. Epic driving on the edge - is.

BTW. One of UNIQUE features of rallies is that fans are real part of the show. Their actions can have impact on results. And I mean helping a car back to the stage, and not behaviours that result in cancelation of stages. Thousands of people living for days in tents on a stage side is also feature that is rarely seen in other sports. Dedication of fans and them being a part of a show (not only a background) is also a something that can be a foundation (or one of the foundations) of campaign to "Make rallies great again!"

BTW2 but judging from the behaviour of ERC TV crews (POLAND 2023) and WRC TV (ESTONIA 2022 and in 2023 to even bigger degree), they've been told not to show fans if possible. Look at the Kanepi stage 2023, series of jumps before finish. Many highlights from the spot. Most with no fans or very few fans. I must tell You, there was a sea of people. One of the most crowded spots I ever been to in lat 10 years. But in the highlights fans are seen only after the last jump. IMHO opinion it is because it was biggest of jumps, and they could not frame the picture in a way that fans were oustside the frame.

The post was chaotic, I'm sorry for that. But what I was trying to say in the first place is that people are watching rallies for different reasons then other typical sports.

Everything you wrote is about spectating live, and everything I wrote is about newer fans getting closer and getting interested in rallying and WRC, following the events through media, which is the vast, VAST majority of fans each weekend. They will not wake up one day and say "you know what, I'll travel to Poland / Sweden / Japan to try and spectate a WRC rally" without first getting interested in the championship. Maybe if you have a big event in your backyard or region, but that's an exception. If a person gets interested in WRC in this day and age, it's extremely more probable they'll first care about championship and points before they decide to travel and spectate an event.
I also don't care for results when I spectate a regional rally, but that's not what I'm talking about.

[Duvel]

Showing spectators would help get "new internet/socials" fans to come to events..

Footage of fans helping cars back on the road, or creating atmosphere, whit flags, and fireworks,..that draws people to the events.
Once you visit a rally, and the virus gets to you than your hooked for life!

Nothing beats standing next to stages whit some friends!

[SubaruNorway]

Pretty good event in the end, so happy we didn't have the Friday snow all weekend, that would have been sad.
Shame about the cruising by Lappi on the last day, because that was some proper driving in the middle of the road, but I'm sure he wouldn't if he had a full season.

Good to see some of you again, now i need some sleep because driving to Umeå was pretty far!

My video
https://youtu.be/rDx_9DAqFs0?si=dwQ6Wv-dl5zONZuw

[Tauri_J]

I've always been for a Power Sunday instead of Power Stage, like others in this forum, which I think is sensible.

Why you want to change a thing that doesnt need changing? Right now Power Stage is pretty much the only thing that is right with WRC.

Its like that one time when F1 decided to toy with qualifying format but it turned out horrible with drivers instead staying in the pits.

[Franky]

Why you want to change a thing that doesnt need changing? Right now Power Stage is pretty much the only thing that is right with WRC.

Its like that one time when F1 decided to toy with qualifying format but it turned out horrible with drivers instead staying in the pits.

Power stage, the thing you call the only right thing, has caused the extreme Sunday cruising that the new botched up points system is trying to fix. So, is it the only right thing?

Power Stage was needed to sell a product. And Power Sunday in essence is just a six-pack version of Power Stage. Sundays are short, so the gaps wouldn't be gigantic anyway. Yes, production costs would increase but also you'd be selling the entire morning of content. But Power-whatever is the smallest of the problems for WRC right now.

[denkimi]

Why you want to change a thing that doesnt need changing? Right now Power Stage is pretty much the only thing that is right with WRC.

Its like that one time when F1 decided to toy with qualifying format but it turned out horrible with drivers instead staying in the pits.
as Franky says, the power stage is what makes people drive extremely slow to save their tyres on sunday.

either we should get rid of it, or we should treat it like it's a completely separate rally.
A power stage for television makes sense, but then make sure everybody has fresh tyres and a long service before it, so everyone has equal chances and noboby needs to worry about tyres or problems on the stages before.

[EstWRC]

But they aren’t driving slow anymore because of the Super Sunday.

Yeah some of them still are, like Lappi this time and Fourmaux but the title contenders aren’t like they used to be

[denkimi]

But they aren’t driving slow anymore because of the Super Sunday.

Yeah some of them still are, like Lappi this time and Fourmaux but the title contenders aren’t like they used to be
https://www.ewrc-results.com/leg/84371-rally-sweden-2024/?leg=4

evans and rovanpera pushed, all the others didn't.

[TypeR]

https://www.ewrc-results.com/leg/84371-rally-sweden-2024/?leg=4

evans and rovanpera pushed, all the others didn't.
Yes, if you only look the times.

But if you watched it live, then Tanak and Neuville also pushed, they needed these extra points, but lost a lot in the morning, because they/hyundai probably managed to go totally wrong way with the settings.

[EstWRC]

Yes, if you only look the times.

But if you watched it live, then Tanak and Neuville also pushed, they needed these extra points, but lost a lot in the morning, because they/hyundai probably managed to go totally wrong way with the settings.

Exactly.

You can’t always just watch the stage times without watching the rally and make conclusions

[Tauri_J]

as Franky says, the power stage is what makes people drive extremely slow to save their tyres on sunday.

either we should get rid of it, or we should treat it like it's a completely separate rally.
A power stage for television makes sense, but then make sure everybody has fresh tyres and a long service before it, so everyone has equal chances and noboby needs to worry about tyres or problems on the stages before.


Power stage, the thing you call the only right thing, has caused the extreme Sunday cruising that the new botched up points system is trying to fix. So, is it the only right thing?

Power Stage was needed to sell a product. And Power Sunday in essence is just a six-pack version of Power Stage. Sundays are short, so the gaps wouldn't be gigantic anyway. Yes, production costs would increase but also you'd be selling the entire morning of content. But Power-whatever is the smallest of the problems for WRC right now.

They would cruise whole sunday if no PS

[denkimi]

They would cruise whole sunday if no PS
They will also cruise all saturday if they are far enough behind.

[samzon100]

WRC Rally Sweden 08-11.02.2024
Shakedown, SS1, SS3, SS5, SS10, SS12 ja SS18

https://samzon.kuvat.fi/kuvat/MM-Rally+Sweden+02.24/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Dirtfish Spin the Rally pod on Sweden in which they suggest Neuville feigned the car problem on Friday to make Evans run first...

Listen about 30mins in...

https://open.spotify.com/episode/7jm88ZxrEXbsKwiC4nh3mJ?si=5EkPcPo4RhC0ILybTMlXTw

[Backa]

I still have no idea if Neuville really had problem or it was tactical move but even if it was, I struggle to consider it "dirty". His rally was ruined by road cleaning, if you can share friday sweeping responsibilities with your main championship rival in exchange for penalty that doesn't cost you much, why not?

If anything, it leveled playing field between them. ERC have much better system for road positions at beginning of rally that would most probably left gentleman driver Bertelli to deal with worst conditions.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Remember back in Sweden 2018 where Ogier had to be the snowplough for the first THREE (very snowy) days. He took a penalty to run last on the PS and was crucified for it by most on here.

The Rally Sweden thread was 50 pages longer than this one with all the criticism and there was even a separate thread on his action.

[CeskyOndra]

Honestly I dont mind those kind of tactics, It is interesting to consider and gives us a topic to discuss

[becher]

Remember back in Sweden 2018 where Ogier had to be the snowplough for the first THREE (very snowy) days. He took a penalty to run last on the PS and was crucified for it by most on here.

The Rally Sweden thread was 50 pages longer than this one with all the criticism and there was even a separate thread on his action.

Evans did so too.

[EstWRC]

i remember it very well, it was hilarious how Ogier hided himself in the forest.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

i remember it very well, it was hilarious how Ogier hided himself in the forest.

At least he and M-Sport admitted they did it on purpose.

Plus his action only benefitted himself and didnt adversely affect a direct rival (like Neuville did this year)...

[CeskyOndra]

At least he and M-Sport admitted they did it on purpose.

Plus his action only benefitted himself and didnt adversely affect a direct rival (like Neuville did this year)...

Yes but he also let someone being first on the road instead of him

[focus206]

At least he and M-Sport admitted they did it on purpose.

Plus his action only benefitted himself and didnt adversely affect a direct rival (like Neuville did this year)...

M-Sport admitted they did it on purpose because they indeed did it on purpose...
But people try to make up conspiracy theories to stir the pot with drama, especially when the drivers they don't like is involved.

[Backa]

At least he and M-Sport admitted they did it on purpose.

Plus his action only benefitted himself and didnt adversely affect a direct rival (like Neuville did this year)...

It's competition, if something benefits one driver, it hurts chances of other drivers.

I can't expect Neuville to admit it was on purpose because I don't know if it was done of purpose.

[satnav]

I've rented a captur, so if you see a rental captur stuck please help me hahahaha

Just wondering how'd you get on

[NielsH]

Just wondering how'd you get on

No problems at all, had an "upgrade" to an Peugeot 308 with spikes. Thought the spectator parking's were perfect. Remember some "keep it pinned not to get stuck" moments from 2010 but none of that at all. Was overall really impressed by the effort mad by the organisation.

Got som of my pics online.

https://www.rally-photo.net/wp-content/gallery/2024-rally-sweden/IMG_6033.jpg

https://www.rally-photo.net/wp-content/gallery/2024-rally-sweden/IMG_7120.jpg

https://www.rally-photo.net/photo-galleries/nggallery/album/2024-rally-sweden

(there are 2 pages but somehow the gallery does not go from the last pic of page 1 to the 1st pic of page 2).

[skarderud]

Everyone old enough remember sainz parking in front of the camereas in the last corner to demonstrate that he rather get the penalty than drives first the day after.
Its not new.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[seb_sh]

Everyone old enough remember sainz parking in front of the camereas in the last corner to demonstrate that he rather get the penalty than drives first the day after.
Its not new.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

Was it to demonstrate or was it a mistake as he stopped too late and had passed the yellow boards? Had he stopped before the yellow boards he wouldn't have gotten a penalty. Indeed in that era it was quite common to do that.

[becher]

Was it to demonstrate or was it a mistake as he stopped too late and had passed the yellow boards? Had he stopped before the yellow boards he wouldn't have gotten a penalty. Indeed in that era it was quite common to do that.

It was a mistake, they miss judged the timing and had to slow more and eventually came to a halt after the yellow board.

[denkimi]

Everyone old enough remember sainz parking in front of the camereas in the last corner to demonstrate that he rather get the penalty than drives first the day after.
Its not new.

and yet it could so easily be avoided by having a wrc1 zero car in such conditions.

[satnav]

Everyone old enough remember sainz parking in front of the camereas in the last corner to demonstrate that he rather get the penalty than drives first the day after.
Its not new.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

Yes that was every year in Australia, teams had spotters on the stage with pit boards with the time they needed, but as becher said Sainz stopped after the yellow board so got a penalty.

[Atob WRC]

Highlights WRC Rally Sweden 2010 by Aneu Massa Tibats

https://youtu.be/thySK6DsPLg?si=MiBOrOawnzFUqXo5

[SubaruNorway]

Did anyone ever see Elfyn's spin in Norrby from the outside? There was some people filming there

[Morte66]

Did anyone ever see Elfyn's spin in Norrby from the outside? There was some people filming there

I'm pretty sure I have seen it, but I'm sorry I can't say where.

[tonirali]

Speaking of unseen moments, is there any footage of Rovanperä's off in SS4?