[WRC] 91e Rallye Automobile Monte-Carlo (16-22 January 2023) [Archive] - Page 4

Fast Eddie WRC

21st January 2023, 17:03

Ooooh, I agree with you. Before the rally Ingram promises to wipe floor with all the other contenders. Can’t see that happening so why boast…

Now all he is about at is “being away from WRC for such a long time” and “being in a older car….”

Well he only missed the last 3 rounds of last year as did many others and also the car he uses was the best choice around still one month ago so it can’t be that outdated.

Ingram didn't do ANY rally since Greece last season and not even any testing, just a PET for Monte. Others here with good backing do many kms of testing and/or other events in local championships.

The Fabia Evo is good but the others are better now and especially the new Fabia RS and the C3 on French tarmac in the hands of Lefebvre, Rossel.

seb_sh

21st January 2023, 17:04

Should go to WRC3 right?

And to ,,not''.. I didn't ask your opinion.

What are you on mate?

Sproaks

21st January 2023, 17:10

QUOTE=EstWRC;1317965]lol one stage and everyone writing the season off :D[/QUOTE]

Thank you

TypeR

21st January 2023, 17:10

Gryazin puncture

What are you on mate?

Many of you wrote Solberg off after last season and also now after his puncture he should basically better do something else..

Punctures happen.. (even master Ogier has had them)
Little offs happen.. (he fixed the problem and contiued)

seb_sh

21st January 2023, 17:12

Many of you wrote Solberg off after last season and also now after his puncture he should basically better do something else..

Punctures happen.. (even master Ogier has had them)
Little offs happen.. (he fixed the problem and contiued)

I didn't write anything about Solberg this rally, and just stated a fact about Gryazin, hold your horses.

TypeR

21st January 2023, 17:16

I didn't write anything about Solberg this rally, and just stated a fact about Gryazin, hold your horses.

I didn't write anything about you, cmon. Just replied to the fact, that some random guy had puncture.

Rallyper

21st January 2023, 17:17

I didn't write anything about Solberg this rally, and just stated a fact about Gryazin, hold your horses.

Well, I saw the connection of your quote. It was about Gryazin.
"Going to WRC3" has become a joke from mockers. Let´s skip that.

EstWRC

21st January 2023, 17:20

nice vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzlLrSjgwjo

dupanton

21st January 2023, 17:24

Ingram didn't do ANY rally since Greece last season and not even any testing, just a PET for Monte. Others here with good backing do many kms of testing and/or other events in local championships.

The Fabia Evo is good but the others are better now and especially the new Fabia RS and the C3 on French tarmac in the hands of Lefebvre, Rossel.

Lopez is waaaay quicker in the Hyundai that is certainly not better than the Fabia. He spent last year in his national championship and hasn't done Monte last few years.

So there is absolutely no excuses for being in the low end of the top 10 for someone who claims he can fight for the title.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but Ingram will never even win a wrc2 round.

seb_sh

21st January 2023, 17:25

Ok, no worries, sometimes the meaning is not clear in text form

Norm75

21st January 2023, 17:28

evans most likely would be faster... hyundai will always be hyndai... clown company

Yes. Evans had puncture on stage 5 and lost 43 seconds from Ogier, the only car in front of him. Is now what 40.5 sec behind Kalle so performance wise they are very close.

mknight

21st January 2023, 17:32

Many of you wrote Solberg off after last season and also now after his puncture he should basically better do something else..

Punctures happen.. (even master Ogier has had them)
Little offs happen.. (he fixed the problem and contiued)

Problem is they happend to Solberg .... all the time.

You know the last time he actually won a rally with a decent competition (in his class) was Estonia 2020, yep that's 2,5 years and lots of rallies ago.

"It's not important he is learning" doesn't last forever.

I praised him yesterday for good pace with no issues all day. That's what he needs to do, not stage wins and then issues. WRC3 is Per going full retard cause he is running out of things to say.

Gonek

21st January 2023, 17:36

Hyunday still fastest on straight, like last year

https://youtu.be/Y1NkwI9geCQ

Norm75

21st January 2023, 17:45

Sordo who has done this rally now for the 12th time is slower than Lappi today, okay he had some issues this stage but even without it he’s slower, I’m sorry but it’s time for him to retire and let someone else drive the car.A little harsh, I think. Breen was on commentary yesterday said it is a rally that sordo doesn’t like. It might well have suited Breen better to drive this rally but Sordo was signed before Breen at Hyundai and was probably seen as a safe pair of hands given the fact he has driven this car last season. First rally of the season, reserve judgement for the rallies that he likes and usually does well at.

Eli

21st January 2023, 17:59

A little harsh, I think. Breen was on commentary yesterday said it is a rally that sordo doesn’t like. It might well have suited Breen better to drive this rally but Sordo was signed before Breen at Hyundai and was probably seen as a safe pair of hands given the fact he has driven this car last season. First rally of the season, reserve judgement for the rallies that he likes and usually does well at.

I’m aware, but this isn’t his first rodeo, let alone in this car or on tarmac for that matter. Sure, he hasn’t done Monte last year, however unlike last year, this year we’re in completely dry conditions, not something Sordo hasn’t experienced before. You’d think that with so much mileage under his belt he would at least be quicker than Katsuta (or match him). True he hasn’t had much time to test before the event, but that applies now to everyone, & this isn’t last year where the entire Hyundai team barely made it to the event. Again, I’m not expecting him to battle for the podium but a top 5/6 result doesn’t seem to be asking too much from him and if it is, then perhaps it’s time for them to consider a (permanent) replacement for him, unless they’re gonna throw in the towel next year.

AndrewTate

21st January 2023, 18:23

Ingram didn't do ANY rally since Greece last season and not even any testing, just a PET for Monte. Others here with good backing do many kms of testing and/or other events in local championships.

The Fabia Evo is good but the others are better now and especially the new Fabia RS and the C3 on French tarmac in the hands of Lefebvre, Rossel.

For now he has not proven to be a prodigy at any point. The btching at every stage end while not performing raises no sympathy.

There is many other drivers, much of them who have shown more potential who have no budget.

The only way to get some support and sponsorship in this hard game is to show raw pace and stability if you want to thrive.

dimviii

21st January 2023, 18:23

Cais
https://twitter.com/MundoRallyes/status/1616864511528411138

nice photo

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnBHsLpXoAARqY3?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

dimviii

21st January 2023, 18:32

Kalle ss 11 from different cameras
https://twitter.com/MundoRallyes/status/1616778626137227271

https://twitter.com/MundoRallyes/status/1616876178928803842

EstWRC

21st January 2023, 18:49

Passats de Canto https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvqhkQ8Xles

Video2rallye83 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb7dllcW0ok

EstWRC

21st January 2023, 19:46

Couple of more good vids, first one including Solberg and zero car moment https://youtu.be/xg6a07HWMJA

https://youtu.be/FbDAB49W-8s

EstWRC

21st January 2023, 20:08

Tänak in a good mood and overall still a positive day

Wouldn’t want to be Chris Williams. I guess that Tänak has a book load of stuff what to do :D

https://twitter.com/otttanak/status/1616898550725582851?s=46&t=7ZtIBu658O9Mdl66WPG7IQ

EstWRC

21st January 2023, 20:17

M-Sport team principal Richard Millener isn’t worried by power steering issues that have hampered the team’s two full-time entries at the World Rally Championship opener in Monte Carlo.

“It is not a surprise where they are but the good thing is I don’t think it is unachievable to get closer again. We shouldn’t make assumptions on two days of rallying in 2023. There is no denying it is not going to be easy but that is the challenge we take on.

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/m-sport-not-worried-by-power-steering-issues-at-wrc-season-opener/10423356/

sinepikohv

21st January 2023, 20:33

New Skoda certainly looks very good, not just one driver setting fast times.
The Ford must be very disheartening, it doesn’t even look bad, it’s just slow….
I agree on Lopez, good effort.

I thought that giving Fourmaux the chance to show that the Fiesta is good was a good decision for both parties: Adrien could gain confidence and M-Sport have a capable driver to promote the Fiesta. No, he won't be as quick as the likes of Gryazin, Lindholm and Suninen, but a battle with the rest seemed plausible. Well, even when Fourmaux pushed like hell he was significantly slower than the best Rally2 guys, there's no battle with Lopez, Rossel or Lefebvre.

That just means one thing: M-Sport's core business is in a bad state (that's one of the reason why I think we see RB throwing more money at M-Sport. The company is having troubles and without RB's support their Rally1 program would collapse or be on the cusp of it). Why would anyone want to buy a Fiesta when there's Hyundai and Škoda? I've heard plenty of people complaining about M-Sport's customer service as well: the cars are not getting the promised upgrades at scheduled times, it's been hard to get your hands on spare parts etc.

Yes, I know, Malcolm and Millener talk at the start of every season how it's so hard to find the budget for Rally1. But I don't remember the business side of M-Sport to be as bad as it is in the previous years. Perhaps someone can prove me wrong, I sincerely hope that!

EstWRC

22nd January 2023, 05:52

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230122/6e700dabe53965b6256dabdd4923d85c.jpg

EstWRC

22nd January 2023, 06:35

Nobody commenting this super excited rally in rally1 class?

mknight

22nd January 2023, 06:38

I thought that giving Fourmaux the chance to show that the Fiesta is good was a good decision for both parties: Adrien could gain confidence and M-Sport have a capable driver to promote the Fiesta. No, he won't be as quick as the likes of Gryazin, Lindholm and Suninen, but a battle with the rest seemed plausible. Well, even when Fourmaux pushed like hell he was significantly slower than the best Rally2 guys, there's no battle with Lopez, Rossel or Lefebvre.

That just means one thing: M-Sport's core business is in a bad state (that's one of the reason why I think we see RB throwing more money at M-Sport. The company is having troubles and without RB's support their Rally1 program would collapse or be on the cusp of it). Why would anyone want to buy a Fiesta when there's Hyundai and Škoda? I've heard plenty of people complaining about M-Sport's customer service as well: the cars are not getting the promised upgrades at scheduled times, it's been hard to get your hands on spare parts etc.

Yes, I know, Malcolm and Millener talk at the start of every season how it's so hard to find the budget for Rally1. But I don't remember the business side of M-Sport to be as bad as it is in the previous years. Perhaps someone can prove me wrong, I sincerely hope that!

I had Fourmaux as a favorite for.win if there is snow/ice . Cause both him and Fiesta are best in that kind of conditions.

There.was no snow and ice so it's not so big surprise he is doing bad.

But I totally agree MSport business is in.shambles.

R5 is bad and getting much worse the last 3 years. Now.with C3, new i20, new Skoda and then Yaris coming they have to make completely new car or just call it off.
R3 never really got all that popular and now is getting competition. There is a small chance that the car will be about same speed and it will increase the popularity of the category.
R2 I am not quite sure, but MSport doesn't seem to be dominating there either.

Which makes me wonder what the plan in Rally1 is. I get going all in for Tanak with RedBull and that is great. But after last year surely there are people that would want to pay for driving Puma (provided reliability is improved). But Greensmith and Bertelli are gone and doesn't seem like any other paying customers are coming.

dimviii

22nd January 2023, 06:50

Lefebvre passed Lopez at general

dimviii

22nd January 2023, 07:00

Neuvilles spin.Lucky that at this point there was no cement wall.
https://twitter.com/JakubHoreovsk?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweet embed%7Ctwterm%5E1617065980500344833%7Ctwgr%5E3e5a ba06419ff43516ab39f39b24d7b9ca23e8de%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Flivecenter.norkon.net%2Ffram e%2Fdirtfish%2F31111%2Fdefault%3F1000

dimviii

22nd January 2023, 07:02

Rossel now 10,5 sec from Gryazin

meh

22nd January 2023, 07:21

Rallyper

22nd January 2023, 07:22

Problem is they happend to Solberg .... all the time.

You know the last time he actually won a rally with a decent competition (in his class) was Estonia 2020, yep that's 2,5 years and lots of rallies ago.

"It's not important he is learning" doesn't last forever.

I praised him yesterday for good pace with no issues all day. That's what he needs to do, not stage wins and then issues. WRC3 is Per going full retard cause he is running out of things to say.

"Full retard..."
I´m laughing. Your text could be applied on several top drivers.

EstWRC

22nd January 2023, 07:33

Eli

22nd January 2023, 07:37

Can’t wait for the PS stage already to see some pushing. Total Snooze fest so far.

Also, could finally see what’s the real speed of Ford although I suspect it will be very hard for Tänak to get some points. It all depends on Katsuta

I think Tänak will just (about) manage it, I’m sure he’s more than keen to finish Monte-Carlo for once, 10 points are still better than none, and I hope Sweden will be better for Toyota’s opposition.

meh

22nd January 2023, 07:44

Hard to imagine that Tänak is going to push on PowerStage as he has not done any "pushing stage" with the car. If he can get one point it is job well done, for more he need "gifts" from top 4.

meh

22nd January 2023, 07:45

... and need to say - this tire-saving-competition is not too enjoyable to watch. No notes made from previous years.

EstWRC

22nd January 2023, 07:52

I think Tänak will just (about) manage it, I’m sure he’s more than keen to finish Monte-Carlo for once, 10 points are still better than none, and I hope Sweden will be better for Toyota’s opposition.

Disagree.

As Ogier is taking many points of Tänaks main rivals then he should get as many points as possible.

I’m not talking him going for 5 points with full risk. More for 2 or 1. Most realistic seems one point but if he doesn’t push enough and Katsuta pushes then I can see Taka rather taking it

mknight

22nd January 2023, 07:53

Nah Kalle should clearly throw a fit about no team orders and leave Toyota.

Eli

22nd January 2023, 07:58

Disagree.

As Ogier is taking many points of Tänaks main rivals then he should get as many points as possible.

I’m not talking him going for 5 points with full risk. More for 2 or 1. Most realistic seems one point but if he doesn’t push enough and Katsuta pushes then I can see Taka rather taking it

I’m not saying he shouldn’t go for an extra bonus point or two, but it’s more than likely that for his efforts he’ll probably get an extra point, unless Neuville manages to spin again or Evans bins it.

Eli

22nd January 2023, 08:01

... and need to say - this tire-saving-competition is not too enjoyable to watch. No notes made from previous years.

This year especially with even less tyres allocated, but hey it’s up to us(?) them? Don’t know who Ben-Sulayem was referring to in the tyre fitting-zone interview yesterday, but he said we need to be up to the challenge(s) or else this sport will die….or somewhere along those lines, it was a very peculiar interview.

meh

22nd January 2023, 08:28

Seems that some more problems for Loubet, based on maps he is not heading to stage start (edit: maybe he is, but it's quite a long road still to drive).

Eli

22nd January 2023, 08:31

Nice to have Petter Solberg in commentary.
M-Sports run of misfortunes continue :(

eib1

22nd January 2023, 08:31

Johnston crashed at last corner SS16

https://www.ewrc-results.com/quickp/77787_326958480_3270030599923928_67768346393926829 37_n.jpg

meh

22nd January 2023, 08:47

Nice to have Petter Solberg in commentary.

Yes, but it's a bit spooky how similar is the way how they talk with Oliver. The intonation, wording, etc

EstWRC

22nd January 2023, 08:48

Tänak already +8 from Taka in first split

The gap was 31 seconds

AndersX

22nd January 2023, 08:50

Disagree.

As Ogier is taking many points of Tänaks main rivals then he should get as many points as possible.

I’m not talking him going for 5 points with full risk. More for 2 or 1. Most realistic seems one point but if he doesn’t push enough and Katsuta pushes then I can see Taka rather taking it

Who really believes that Puma is actually faster and right now Tanak is driving in disguise? Even Greensmith could have driven with + 1s/km speed. Unfortunately M-Sport seems to lost out on developments last year and now are starting the season on one step behind.

22nd January 2023, 08:51

Split times not working on website/app?

EstWRC

22nd January 2023, 08:53

Tänak already +24 in last split

What is he thinking

mknight

22nd January 2023, 08:54

Split times not working on website/app?

App (livemaps) works for me.

EstWRC

22nd January 2023, 08:55

Tänak lost 31 to Katsuta

Gap just 0.1. Now

Kras

22nd January 2023, 08:56

What's happening to Tanak?

Kras

22nd January 2023, 08:57

Tyre saving for powerstage. Ott is gonna push

Rallyper

22nd January 2023, 08:57

Split times not working on website/app?

Nope. Same here.

EstWRC

22nd January 2023, 08:58

This is just plain stupid from Tänak

Taka will take him with the power stage

Kras

22nd January 2023, 08:59

This is just plain stupid from Tänak

Taka will take him with the power stage

Guess will find out soon enough if it's stupid

meh

22nd January 2023, 09:00

This is just plain stupid from Tänak

Taka will take him with the power stage

At least he makes things interesting :D

EstWRC

22nd January 2023, 09:00

Guess will find out soon enough if it's stupid

He had 40 sec lead over Taka starting today

And now nothing. Unbelievable

Kras

22nd January 2023, 09:03

He had 40 sec lead over Taka starting today

And now nothing. Unbelievable

Yes, I get it. But this will atleast show us how Puma trully compares to Toyota and Hyundai when everyone is pushing

TypeR

22nd January 2023, 09:05

Better have secured the 5th place..

Corcaíoch

22nd January 2023, 09:05

Tanak obviously going for a big push and would expect to see Katsuta play it safe and be happy with the position he has rather than risk it going after Tanak with better tyres, so I think Ott is safe enough. Would love to be wrong and see Katsuta at least push for it though. Wonder if Ogier will push on the powerstage or not?

Eli

22nd January 2023, 09:11

Better have secured the 5th place..

Should’ve managed it better here, now he’ll push like crazy to make up for it and make a mistake. Hopefully I’m wrong but seems like plain bad strategy from the side.

mknight

22nd January 2023, 09:14

Should’ve managed it better here, now he’ll push like crazy to make up for it and make a mistake. Hopefully I’m wrong but seems like plain bad strategy from the side.
Strategy was good (saving tires).
It's the execution that failed. He should have kept some 10s gap.

EstWRC

22nd January 2023, 09:14

On the other side Katsuta hasn’t managed his tires at all
Today and that may give Ott big advantage

We will see. He made it interesting for sure

WRC1

22nd January 2023, 09:17

Loubet out...mechanical on Road section... :(

M-sport has A LOT WORK to do!!!

Kras

22nd January 2023, 09:22

Loubet out...mechanical on Road section... :(

M-sport has A LOT WORK to do!!!

It's good thing it happened now that it doesn't matter anymore. It didn't rob Loubet of points

AnttiL

22nd January 2023, 09:33

Tänak also only one with just one spare tyre.

cali

22nd January 2023, 09:42

Tänak also only one with just one spare tyre.Probably he is able to just beat Katsuta, I don't expect nothing more

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

22nd January 2023, 10:13

One of the most boring Monte. Hopefully the whole season will be different.

22nd January 2023, 10:21

Despite being legendary, when dry this stage isn’t great entertainment for the powerstage. The downhill would be better.

Rallyper

22nd January 2023, 10:25

Happy for Gryazin. Managing the rally well.

mknight

22nd January 2023, 10:27

Despite being legendary, when dry this stage isn’t great entertainment for the powerstage. The downhill would be better.

The legend comes mostly from the uphill and downhill combination with one side dry and one slippery. Up only is indeed boring.

In other news Skoda PR nightmare just started.

Rallyper

22nd January 2023, 10:29

In other news Skoda PR nightmare just started.

???

skarderud

22nd January 2023, 10:30

I don't care if some rich old farts buy themselves an Rally1 car and do WRC-rallies in them, good for them, but don't show them on TV, it's a disgrace for the sport.
Most of us could manage the same speed, noone of us are even close to be a top rally driver.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

22nd January 2023, 10:30

???

Don´t you know?

22nd January 2023, 10:35

The legend comes mostly from the uphill and downhill combination with one side dry and one slippery. Up only is indeed boring.

In other news Skoda PR nightmare just started.

‘Toksport’s Nikolay Gryazin took victory on the Fabia RS Rally2s debut’

I think not being competitive or not winning would be more of a nightmare. i don’t think a lot of people expected it against the French guys in the Citroen.

Re: the stage, they ran the whole thing in one go in IRC days at night and it was great entertainment, especially with the screaming S2000 cars. Probably too long for the powerstage though?

EstWRC

22nd January 2023, 10:35

Taka doesn’t even try or mistake

meh

22nd January 2023, 10:35

Katsuta 10sec slower than Lappi in split 1, good news for Tänak

Rallyper

22nd January 2023, 10:36

Don´t you know?

No. Excuse my lack of knowledge, I honestly don´t know what´s up...

Tauri_J

22nd January 2023, 10:37

Despite being legendary, when dry this stage isn’t great entertainment for the powerstage. The downhill would be better.

We've been spoiled all these years. Cant even remember last bone dry Monte

Oliverk

22nd January 2023, 10:37

???

Putin loverboy winning is not good PR

Tauri_J

22nd January 2023, 10:37

No. Excuse my lack of knowledge, I honestly don´t know what´s up...

I think he means some russian fella

meh

22nd January 2023, 10:38

Tänak 4.5sec faster than Lappi, nice (edit: in 1st split)

Rallyper

22nd January 2023, 10:39

Katsuta with problems...

Rallyper

22nd January 2023, 10:40

Putin loverboy winning is not good PR

Alright.

Tauri_J

22nd January 2023, 10:40

Geez stop showing slow Taka, wanna see Ott push

Tauri_J

22nd January 2023, 10:42

Did he really think he could beat Ott?

EstWRC

22nd January 2023, 10:42

Evans slower than Tänak!

Kras

22nd January 2023, 10:44

Well dobe Nikolay

Kras

22nd January 2023, 10:44

Good time from Tanak wow

EstWRC

22nd January 2023, 10:46

At the end Tänak didn’t win much time against lappi and the car was so understeer

AndyRAC

22nd January 2023, 10:46

Re: the stage, they ran the whole thing in one go in IRC days at night and it was great entertainment, especially with the screaming S2000 cars. Probably too long for the powerstage though?

Yes, they did, and one year, 2009 from memory they ran from Col de Braus. If you're going to have the Turini stage, then run the full length - and use another stage for the Powerstage.

mknight

22nd January 2023, 10:47

‘Toksport’s Nikolay Gryazin took victory on the Fabia RS Rally2s debut’

I think not being competitive or not winning would be more of a nightmare. i don’t think a lot of people expected it against the French guys in the Citroen.

Skoda Motorsport (rallycar selling company) aims and Skoda Auto (car selling company) PR goals are not always the same.

The problem is that Skoda Auto owns Skoda Motorsport, so anything is possible.

meh

22nd January 2023, 10:47

So close with Evans

edit: Tänak got Evans with 0.1sec

Tauri_J

22nd January 2023, 10:47

At the end Tänak didn’t win much time against lappi and the car was so understeer

Yup, like he said himself

Fast Eddie WRC

22nd January 2023, 10:48

Yes Ott 0.1 faster than Evans ! :)

EstWRC

22nd January 2023, 10:49

Yessssssss

This feels like a win for me :D

meh

22nd January 2023, 10:50

Yessssssss

This feels like a win for me :D

It is, winning one more point.

EstWRC

22nd January 2023, 10:51

Even kalle slower !

The puma has pace!

denkimi

22nd January 2023, 10:51

Putin loverboy winning is not good PR
Keep your stupid political ideas out of sport. We just want to see good drivers drive fast.

Fast Eddie WRC

22nd January 2023, 10:53

Good rescue job by Tanak this weekend in his first Puma rally, esp after the steering issue. Tyre saving helped for the PS too. Some points and something to build on.

Kras

22nd January 2023, 10:54

Tanak destroying Toyotas so far. What a madlad

skarderud

22nd January 2023, 10:54

The look of the new Hyundai teamboss: "why the fuck did we keep this jackass and let Tänak go"?

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

EstWRC

22nd January 2023, 10:57

I don’t even care kalle was faster

This was superb stage from Tänak. The car has pace

Kras

22nd January 2023, 10:57

Damn. GJ Rovanpera. Puma having competitive pace is enough

22nd January 2023, 10:59

This was much more about Tänak than Puma´s pace.

Kras

22nd January 2023, 11:01

This was much more about Tänak than Puma´s pace.

It shows that car can keep up, uphill even

Kras

22nd January 2023, 11:02

9 points between 4 title contenders. Not bad after all

Rallyper

22nd January 2023, 11:03

Congrats to Ogier/Landais. Good job!
And to all other great drivers.
Let´s look forward to Rally Sweden and hope for more excitement between the snowbanks!

meh

22nd January 2023, 11:06

Points:
1. Ogier 26
2. Rovanperä 23
3. Neuville 17
4. Evans 15
5. Tänak 14

So top 4 title-contenders in 9 points.

EstWRC

22nd January 2023, 11:12

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230122/cca426d3785fc8b79496ae3ba4f9a4ed.jpg

meh

22nd January 2023, 11:15

Keep your stupid political ideas out of sport. We just want to see good drivers drive fast.

Sorry for continuing this offtopic, but I need to say that this statement is not less stupid than the original one. Take into account that lifes maybe really affected by this "side topics". If your's is not, good, but there are others who's life is.

Eli

22nd January 2023, 11:22

Yessssssss

This feels like a win for me :D

And for the first time since 2019, he finally finished the event.

doubled1978

22nd January 2023, 11:24

This was much more about Tänak than Puma´s pace.

Absolutely, the understeer at the top of the hill was biblical. He didn’t push for 3 stages and still ran out of fronts worse than Rovanpera.
As others have said, the job list for dry tarmac is a long one.

EstWRC

22nd January 2023, 11:25

Absolutely, the understeer at the top of the hill was biblical. He didn’t push for 3 stages and still ran out of fronts worse than Rovanpera.
As others have said, the job list for dry tarmac is a long one.

yeah agreed, the understeer was horrible in the last section. Lost the stage win there i think

but still, there is a lot of potential IMO

doubled1978

22nd January 2023, 11:26

Keep your stupid political ideas out of sport. We just want to see good drivers drive fast.

I deleted a response to this as it lowered myself to the level of this guy.
I think he thought he was being funny…..

doubled1978

22nd January 2023, 11:28

yeah agreed, the understeer was horrible in the last section. Lost the stage win there i think

but still, there is a lot of potential IMO

For sure, I am sure there is potential in there…I just hope they can find it.

denkimi

22nd January 2023, 11:37

Sorry for continuing this offtopic, but I need to say that this statement is not less stupid than the original one. Take into account that lifes maybe really affected by this "side topics". If your's is not, good, but there are others who's life is.
What lives are affected by gryazin driving here?

I have had enough of the constant propaganda and blind hate being stirred from both sides. Hate putin or zelensky all you want, but don't direct your hate to people who have nothing to do with it.

focus206

22nd January 2023, 11:40

Another perfect rally for Kalle, there was no need to go and try catch Ogier.
Toyota seems much better than the others on asphalt, Kalle was trashing everyone on gravel last year and good luck beating him in Sweden, Finland and Estonia... I know many say it's still early, but what could possibly happen to even bring up a fight for the championship? Can't imagine anything realistic, unfortunately.

mknight

22nd January 2023, 11:46

What lives are affected by gryazin driving here?

.

In case Skoda Auto does some repercussions towards Skoda Motorsport your rally watching will get directly affected. In 2016 VW had invested multiple tens of millions of euros into new car and were winning everything. Yet VAG leadership pulled the plug.

Also the likehood of new manus joining might just have reduced.

"Rallyworld" is not its own reality.

Rallyper

22nd January 2023, 11:46

Oliver wins PS in WRC2 and finishes 2:18 after Gryazin, with one puncture and one off loosing some 3:30...

cali

22nd January 2023, 11:47

Oliver wins PS in WRC2 and finishes 2:18 after Gryazin, with one puncture and one off loosing some 3:30...Overall good rally for Oliver

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meh

22nd January 2023, 11:50

What lives are affected by gryazin driving here?

I have had enough of the constant propaganda and blind hate being stirred from both sides. Hate putin or zelensky all you want, but don't direct your hate to people who have nothing to do with it.

If you found hate from my lines, I recommend to re-read them. Please use pragmatic reading.

I just try to point out, that people have different point of view to the war topic. This is also pointed out as Skoda PR actually can be complicated - why there is russian in the team if in other sport disciplines they are not allowed to compete.

Grazin seems nice guy without showing any shitty attitude. Personally I don't have any problem with him.

What people have questioned here about Grazin - what is his point of view at the war. If he publically supports the war (as I don't know his official statement, read this question as theoretical one) - do you stand for your statement? Like it does not matter if he supports killing people and using questionable money for his rallying, it's only important he is fast? To make more extreme example - would you say the same for serial killers, pedophiles etc, it's just important that they are fast? And in that situation - if things go wrong - what PR it makes to WRC or rally-sport in general?

> What lives are affected by gryazin driving here?

If your life happens to be affected by the war, and (theoratically) there is some guy who is supporting the government who is the agressor, it really matters what kind of feelings it creates towards sport.

My point is - it actually matters, who is competing, from where they get finances and what they promote.

meh

22nd January 2023, 11:51

On the rally topic - Ogier lead from 1st stage till the finish.

Eli

22nd January 2023, 12:05

On the rally topic - Ogier lead from 1st stage till the finish.

Not really surprising given there was no Loeb and this i20 for the time being isn’t as nimble as the previous gen car, you could see it either had understeer, or tail happy oversteer and sometimes one after the other, as much as M-Sport has a lot of work to do, at least they have Tänak who knows how to set up the car.

flykas

22nd January 2023, 12:14

If you found hate from my lines, I recommend to re-read them. Please use pragmatic reading.

I just try to point out, that people have different point of view to the war topic. This is also pointed out as Skoda PR actually can be complicated - why there is russian in the team if in other sport disciplines they are not allowed to compete.

Grazin seems nice guy without showing any shitty attitude. Personally I don't have any problem with him.

What people have questioned here about Grazin - what is his point of view at the war. If he publically supports the war (as I don't know his official statement, read this question as theoretical one) - do you stand for your statement? Like it does not matter if he supports killing people and using questionable money for his rallying, it's only important he is fast? To make more extreme example - would you say the same for serial killers, pedophiles etc, it's just important that they are fast? And in that situation - if things go wrong - what PR it makes to WRC or rally-sport in general?

> What lives are affected by gryazin driving here?

If your life happens to be affected by the war, and (theoratically) there is some guy who is supporting the government who is the agressor, it really matters what kind of feelings it creates towards sport.

My point is - it actually matters, who is competing, from where they get finances and what they promote.

Thats right. Also we cannot allways separate everything from poltics, its more than politics. He looks like a good guy, I would like to not see any russian citizen in any of the international sports. They should’t have these oportunities till they have current goverment. Every citizen is responsible for its country.

NOT

22nd January 2023, 12:21

seeing baltic pseudonations seethe is hilarious...

Kras

22nd January 2023, 12:26

Lol at people pretending like this is the first war in human history. I've never in my life seen calls for completely banning any other nationality form all of sports.

He's already competing without a flag, like all RU and BLR tennis players for example. I don't remeber US/UK/FR athletes ever being required to drop their flag.

If aliens came to earth today they'd think Russia invented war in 2022.

Can we please make a separate topic for this, if we have to disscuss it?

cali

22nd January 2023, 12:34

seeing baltic pseudonations seethe is hilarious...Being here for so long I can't take you seriously Greg so whatever typical nonsense you are bursting out this time, it doesn't work.

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Kras

22nd January 2023, 12:39

Also, is there any mods here to remove the outright racist comments?

Galev62

22nd January 2023, 12:46

Rallyper

22nd January 2023, 12:46

If you found hate from my lines, I recommend to re-read them. Please use pragmatic reading.

I just try to point out, that people have different point of view to the war topic. This is also pointed out as Skoda PR actually can be complicated - why there is russian in the team if in other sport disciplines they are not allowed to compete.

Grazin seems nice guy without showing any shitty attitude. Personally I don't have any problem with him.

What people have questioned here about Grazin - what is his point of view at the war. If he publically supports the war (as I don't know his official statement, read this question as theoretical one) - do you stand for your statement? Like it does not matter if he supports killing people and using questionable money for his rallying, it's only important he is fast? To make more extreme example - would you say the same for serial killers, pedophiles etc, it's just important that they are fast? And in that situation - if things go wrong - what PR it makes to WRC or rally-sport in general?

> What lives are affected by gryazin driving here?

If your life happens to be affected by the war, and (theoratically) there is some guy who is supporting the government who is the agressor, it really matters what kind of feelings it creates towards sport.

My point is - it actually matters, who is competing, from where they get finances and what they promote.

You questioned Skodas PR-machinery, calling it a "catastrofy coming", and what they´ll do with the brand after NG winning WRC2. Does this come from your fantasy or are you sitting in the management of Skoda?

cali

22nd January 2023, 12:46

Also, is there any mods here to remove the outright racist comments?You mix racism with xenophobia per se as there's no racial slur here nor I haven't seen any in my time here from 2003 or 2005 (can't remember really and not bothered to check it as well).

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meh

22nd January 2023, 12:53

You questioned Skodas PR-machinery, calling it a "catastrofy coming", and what they´ll do with the brand after NG winning WRC2. Does this come from your fantasy or are you sitting in the management of Skoda?

I was pointing to previous statements in this thread. I have not called it with any name, I can not understand what you are talking about. Mixing something?

NOT

22nd January 2023, 13:01

Im not against Russian/Blr competing in sport. Only thing i would want to see from Gryazin is statement condemning the war. But he cant do that because from what i know he gets most of his funding still from bank accounts mainly in Latvia. Which are of course filled with Russian money.

did you ask for similar statements from Loeb or Ogier for what the frogs did to Lybia ? or from american athletes for what they did do Iraq and Afghanistan ?

or killing brown muslims is fine ?

Kras

22nd January 2023, 13:07

You mix racism with xenophobia per se as there's no racial slur here nor I haven't seen any in my time here from 2003 or 2005 (can't remember really and not bothered to check it as well).

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

I don't really care for that dinstinction. It makes one sound less bad than the other, when it really isn't.

There's no concensus on what "race" is anyway

bwallace

22nd January 2023, 13:16

Kras

22nd January 2023, 13:25

you can ask for sure about last century can you give some example for this century what France did same like Russia? oh you only know 100 years old story to make same as 21 century story ;) by the way in that century russian and france did dirty shit but now only russian doing :) so compare dirty job in difference century make sense yeah....

Did you know that Lybia is a failed state with no government, where 100s of gangs fight for territory and where there are multiple open-air slave markets? Did you know that this is a direct consequence of US/FR bombing compaigns i support of various off-brand Alquaeda insurgents?

Kenneth

22nd January 2023, 13:29

Im not against Russian/Blr competing in sport. Only thing i would want to see from Gryazin is statement condemning the war. But he cant do that because from what i know he gets most of his funding still from bank accounts mainly in Latvia. Which are of course filled with Russian money.

FIA do require a statement condemning the war from Russian and Belorussian drivers, don't they? Also he got his funding from his family, which do business in the Baltic.

Tauri_J

22nd January 2023, 13:29

Absolutely, the understeer at the top of the hill was biblical. He didn’t push for 3 stages and still ran out of fronts worse than Rovanpera.
As others have said, the job list for dry tarmac is a long one.

I mean If Ott could take 14 points in three other tarmac events too, that would not be bad at all. Title will be won on gravel thats for sure.

flat_right

22nd January 2023, 13:32

I mean If Ott could take 14 points in three other tarmac events too, that would not be bad at all. Title will be won on gravel thats for sure.

If he could do that, would be awesome. Plus Ford needs to get rid of reliability problems that were present this weekend and also last year. If they could do that, then I think we have a championship to fight for.

bwallace

22nd January 2023, 13:40

sound very similar what will happend in russia sooner or later ;)

Kras

22nd January 2023, 13:42

If he could do that, would be awesome. Plus Ford needs to get rid of reliability problems that were present this weekend and also last year. If they could do that, then I think we have a championship to fight for.

Yep, they should really fix their reliability issues. Theres certainly more stress on the car on gravel events

Galev62

22nd January 2023, 13:47

did you ask for similar statements from Loeb or Ogier for what the frogs did to Lybia ? or from american athletes for what they did do Iraq and Afghanistan ?

or killing brown muslims is fine ?
No war is fine and they should also have been more critical of their goverment.

Kras

22nd January 2023, 13:47

sound very similar what will happend in russia sooner or later ;)

I'm not sure you want Libya spanning 13 time zones with a few thousand nulcear bombs. But who cares what you wish anyway, you're just some hypocrite nobody

EstWRC

22nd January 2023, 13:57

- BEST OF MONTE CARLO BEST OF 2023 - CHECKPOINRALLYE -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMZa4AzIZ4

BGF VIDEO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7JsKVySHSk

Turbo2'Rallye
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7idoQ9LRbYI

TypeR

22nd January 2023, 14:18

so now it is:
Ogier 9 vs Loeb 8 Monte-Carlo wins.
I'm quite sure, he wants to go for 10th..

I think Tanak and M-Sport hoped for ,,easier'' rally (as of more difficult weather conditions, so the performance gap wasn't that big), but got a proper full dry tarmac rally with mostly uphill stages.

Hopefully they got useful data for Croatia. I don't remember if Croatia stages are more flat or not..

meh

22nd January 2023, 14:23

I think Tanak and M-Sport hoped for ,,easier'' rally (as of more difficult weather conditions, so the performance gap wasn't that big), but got a proper full dry tarmac rally with mostly uphill stages.

Hope for difficult weather and not the tarmac rally was the main reason why they decided to not "waste" testing days before Monte.

flat_right

22nd January 2023, 14:32

Hope for difficult weather and not the tarmac rally was the main reason why they decided to not "waste" testing days before Monte.

What do you mean by that? They had PET days where they could experience all the conditions that Monte can offer. Iirc they were were pleased that they had those conditions and could prepare like this.

meh

22nd January 2023, 14:42

What do you mean by that? They had PET days where they could experience all the conditions that Monte can offer. Iirc they were were pleased that they had those conditions and could prepare like this.

Picked this from Betsafe interview with Tänak when host was a bit surprised that why Tänak is in resting mode instead of learning the car and do intense testing. They did their PET, but this is not clearly enough time to get familiar with the car.

Now Monte was "long testing" to collect "topics to improve".

TypeR

22nd January 2023, 14:43

flat_right

22nd January 2023, 14:46

Testing days are very limited so I think it was pretty much all they could do. As there are no Monte conditions in their permanent site in Greystoke so nothing to do there also.

flat_right

22nd January 2023, 14:50

I meant that when the conditions would have been icy, snowy etc, then the lack of time in new car and differences between 3 cars' performance wouldn't have played tooo big role, but full tarmac was different story..
I think that with more slippery conditions Lappi wouldn't been so far back either..(yes, new i20 is tricky in slippery conditions, but still)

For me it's better to have this reality check here on the first rally so they would really know where they are other than to get this false positive signs that they are on pace on slippery conditions.

Monte result was pretty much as expected as they didn't do as much development as Hyundai and Toyota did. But Ott was positive in a way that now they know where they are and they did get some answers (though some new questions arose).

meh

22nd January 2023, 14:57

Tänak to delfi:
* didn't expect to loose half of minute with penultimate stage, got extra motivation to drive last stage fast
* can not drive entire rally with the powerstage speed
* didn't take any risk in powerstage, but it was maximum
* now there are new questions to solve and with tarmac car there is few months time to find answers
* there was no goal for winning the rally, the goal was to earn points and get better picture of the car
* we are today behind, but we will find the way to get ahead
* can test 1 day for rally sweden - no experience on the snow yet
* important to catch Toyotas with first half of the year

source:
https://sport.delfi.ee/artikkel/120131858/delfi-video-ott-tanak-monte-carlo-ralli-viiendast-kohast-punktid-on-olemas-see-oligi-pohieesmark

dimviii

22nd January 2023, 15:12

Katsuta ok
Lopez ok
Johnston not ok.
https://twitter.com/RallySolo/status/1617098736445935617

Sordo ok
https://twitter.com/ACM_Media/status/1617080688372551683

Lopez from another better angle
https://twitter.com/Ale_Alelii/status/1617085365512294401

dimviii

22nd January 2023, 15:16

this object above the wheel must be a broken disc brake

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnEeFvLXgAEclJ1?format=jpg&name=medium

dimviii

22nd January 2023, 15:30

Sebastien Loeb
@SebastienLoeb
Cheer
@SebOgier
�� When will the revenge of the #WRC "retirees" be?! ��

NOT

22nd January 2023, 15:47

ogier replied

hopefully next year...

Rallyper

22nd January 2023, 16:24

I was pointing to previous statements in this thread. I have not called it with any name, I can not understand what you are talking about. Mixing something?

Ok. I´m satisfied with the answer. Quote coming from thread.

bwallace

22nd January 2023, 16:44

yeah and especially example with russia is not most hypocritical to defense agresion to compare with other wars :D

Danny0405

22nd January 2023, 16:54

Well, could have been worse for Tanak.
As we could see last year, we can be worried about the reliability of this Fiesta. But he did it to the end and cut by half the points lost to Rovanpera and Neuville in Monte compared with last year (and both did better than last year).

Anyway, for Tanak, the question is to survive until Croatia (included) by limiting the loss in the championship to the very minimum and get used to the car.
If he succeeds to do so (let’s say being in the 10-20 point range below the championship leader after Croatia), the true championship will begin with the series of 7 consecutive gravel rallies from Portugal to Chile.

EstWRC

22nd January 2023, 17:31

TypeR

22nd January 2023, 18:15

https://www.is.fi/ralli/art-2000009343501.html

And once again.. finnish specialists can't get around Tanak..

Maybe make an article about Lappi? Days behind the pace of most WRC drivers with a car that finished 3rd..

flat_right

22nd January 2023, 18:37

That guy who wrote this article propably only watched stage times. Total BS.

cali

22nd January 2023, 18:46

Seems like the hurt is too big for some of the finns and they can't just let it go

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Andre Oliveira

22nd January 2023, 19:14

Gryazin penalized in 5s after PH Sport protest.

Danny0405

22nd January 2023, 19:22

Gryazin penalized in 5s after PH Sport protest.

Well, clearly a vengeance for Mikkelsen-Toksport protest in Ypres (not the same team but a Citroen-backed driver) ... with much bigger consequence.

However, I don’t like that administrative stuff increasing... should be a discussion between all the RC2 teams to stop this.

dupanton

22nd January 2023, 19:22

Yes, penalty for corner cutting. Citroën has its revench for the Ypres saga...

Rossel wins WRC2!

mknight

22nd January 2023, 19:26

Except penalty for Lefebvre didn't change any results.

Edit: Also as you may recall the penalty party started on Monte 2021 vs Toksport.

Danny0405

22nd January 2023, 19:28

Except penalty for Lefebvre didn't change any results.

Yeah... it’s why I said «*with much bigger consequence*»
I clearly think Toksport and PH Sport must discuss to stop this game.

dupanton

22nd January 2023, 19:31

I think it's this corner.

It's on SS14 when he had a puncture...

Edit: I was wrong :)

22nd January 2023, 19:33

Nothing new in Monte! They got French driver to win with the French car after all.

NOT

22nd January 2023, 19:35

Nothing new in Monte! They got French driver to win with the French car after all.

plus a russian did not win... so the baltic/polish spergs can stop frothing from the mouth... double win.

dimviii

22nd January 2023, 19:35

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnGneKCXgAAGtxe?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnGneJ4WQAAQf0g?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnGniT-WQAIy-qk?format=jpg&name=medium

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnGnmf5XoAAa4Ek?format=jpg&name=medium

mknight

22nd January 2023, 19:37

FIA has repeatedly said that you can't have 4 wheels off and penalized for it before as well.

That means the rules are clear and it should be easy not to violate them.

dupanton

22nd January 2023, 19:38

Nothing new in Monte! They got French driver to win with the French car after all.

Except that the Stewards who decided that where an Italian, a Belgian and a Frenchman.
Often we complain that the FIA isn't consistent in their decisions. This is exactly the same punishment als for Lefebvre in Ypres so nothing to say about that. It's not a factor if the classification changes with that or not.

dimviii

22nd January 2023, 19:41

what was the penalty for Lefebvre in Ypres?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnGNFwTWIAE525V?format=jpg&name=large

AnttiL

22nd January 2023, 19:46

Gryazin's cut

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxkkGHFAd6hQ2p9CUR4wyEt06TohEBDYhW

dupanton

22nd January 2023, 19:46

5sec for the first infringement, 10sec for the 2nd one iirc.

flat_right

22nd January 2023, 20:11

plus a russian did not win... so the baltic/polish spergs can stop frothing from the mouth... double win.

No, it's a triple win for us. Clearly, you also feel sad and lost with this as your bedroom poster boy was cut from the win, so yeah, I can sleep extra well tonight. Nighty-night!

dimviii

22nd January 2023, 20:35

WHY LOUBET RETIRED FOR A SECOND TIME
A WATER PUMP FAILURE COUPLED WITH A FUEL ISSUE MEANT HE COULDN'T COMPLETE SUNDAY'S STAGES

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/why-loubet-retired-for-a-second-time/

NOT

22nd January 2023, 20:59

Who asked you anything? You probably have internet thanks to othe EU members and donations, nothing else.

Just a wannabe troll from somewhere faraway bs..

I forgot the aspies from britain in my list... sorry.

seb_sh

22nd January 2023, 21:35

Can we please stop the off topic posts, if you know what I mean. I come here to talk/read about rally. Take it to some other section of the forum or twitter.

Kenneth

22nd January 2023, 21:39

Gryazin's cut

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxkkGHFAd6hQ2p9CUR4wyEt06TohEBDYhW

what a joke

dimviii

22nd January 2023, 21:48

what a joke

i am almost sure that all cars passed from same line.

J4MIE

22nd January 2023, 21:58

what a joke

Why? The rules and regulations and precedents are clear. If it was a joke then the protest wouldn’t have succeeded.

J4MIE

22nd January 2023, 21:59

i am almost sure that all cars passed from same line.

But how many others submitted a protest?

Danny0405

22nd January 2023, 23:19

Well, Gryazin was on the podium I suppose and congratulated as the winner in the afternoon before the decision so it changes nothing in terms of PR, clearly not that point that could have had an impact on the judgement (and the claim was made later in the afternoon as evoked in the summary and probably wouldn’t have been made if the gap was bigger at the end of the rally).

Personally, I think the stewards had no other choice than accepting the request considering what happened in Ypres (all the more than the defender in Monte was the protester in Ypres if we think in terms of team).
Well, Toksport have paid to learn that when you open that type of dirty move (even if they were maybe pushed by Mikkelsen), it can backlash on you.
But the game is totally faked because if Gryazin had taken the penalty earlier in the rally (Saturday by night or Sunday in the morning), he would probably have pushed further on the last stages and I think he would have won.

Toksport have begun the dirty game, Citroen has taken its vengeance; let’s hope now that they will agree to stop this dumb game.

Steve Boyd

22nd January 2023, 23:39

Toksport have begun the dirty game, Citroen has taken its vengeance; let’s hope now that they will agree to stop this dumb game.
I hope so too, but past experience shows these things often escalate to the detriment of the sport.

NOT

22nd January 2023, 23:40

Well, Gryazin was on the podium I suppose and congratulated as the winner in the afternoon before the decision so it changes nothing in terms of PR, clearly not that point that could have had an impact on the judgement (and the claim was made later in the afternoon as evoked in the summary and probably wouldn’t have been made if the gap was bigger at the end of the rally).

Personally, I think the stewards had no other choice than accepting the request considering what happened in Ypres (all the more than the defender in Monte was the protester in Ypres if we think in terms of team).
Well, Toksport have paid to learn that when you open that type of dirty move (even if they were maybe pushed by Mikkelsen), it can backlash on you.
But the game is totally faked because if Gryazin had taken the penalty earlier in the rally (Saturday by night or Sunday in the morning), he would probably have pushed further on the last day and I think he would have won.

Toksport have begun the dirty game, Citroen has taken its vengeance; let’s hope now that they will agree to stop this dumb game.

the rule is plain retarded... but to take advantage of it is a bit of alow blow...

how many seconds for this then ?

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/GxuyHq-kWVU

Danny0405

22nd January 2023, 23:47

the rule is plain retarded... but to take advantage of it is a bit of alow blow...

how many seconds for this then ?

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/GxuyHq-kWVU

Well, what’s the point of this?
Maybe the rule needs some adaptation (however, it is still needed to avoid some specific cases) but the main issue is that competitors should respect the spirit of the rule by not making protests just because the gaps are close. And your video proves what is to respect the spirit of the rule (nobody puts a claim for this).
Issue is Toksport has opened in last Ypres a very dangerous process and Citroën Racing supported-team wanted to remind they can play this game also. Both moves were dumb and dirty, let’s hope now that they will stop this shit after this now that everyone knows the other one can reply.

Ypres stewards has a responsibility in this, they should have refused Toksport’s claim because it opens a very bad breach.
And in the last point of stewards’ decision, it is written «*following the precedents for the same offenses*»: well, pretty obvious way to refer to Ypres 2022 IMO.

cali

23rd January 2023, 03:51

the rule is plain retarded... but to take advantage of it is a bit of alow blow...

how many seconds for this then ?

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/GxuyHq-kWVUOf all the people you Grigorii are talking about low blows hehe funny

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mknight

23rd January 2023, 05:45

Toksport have begun the dirty game, Citroen has taken its vengeance; let’s hope now that they will agree to stop this dumb game.

This started in Monte 2021 against Toksport, check how long the penalty list was then:

https://www.ewrc-results.com/penalty/41079-rallye-automobile-monte-carlo-2021/

ictus

23rd January 2023, 06:24

the rule is plain retarded... but to take advantage of it is a bit of alow blow...

how many seconds for this then ?

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/GxuyHq-kWVU

It all depends on the road book, if a certain corner, and a certain route through this corner is shown on diagrams than its all clear, if not you can get from A to B preaty much freestyle ;)

ouvreur

23rd January 2023, 06:25

This situation shows - again - that the rules require amendment.

Crews should not be getting penalties for taking a line that is possible to drive. We are talking about rallying, not circuit racing. The idea of 'track limits', or that there should be a limit to how much of a cut may be taken, is bogus in this sport.

If the FIA or organisers want to restrict the lines which may be taken, they should place anti-cut devices or define what they consider to be the limit of the roadway. It should never, ever be open to interpretation. Anything not defined, either in the road book or by obstacles / markings put by the organisers, should be fair game - opportunities for switched-on crews to make an advantage.

Otherwise, we're applying a circuit-racing style rule in an environment nothing like a race circuit - what's the point of that?

br21

23rd January 2023, 06:38

Sulland

23rd January 2023, 07:01

This started in Monte 2021 against Toksport, check how long the penalty list was then:

https://www.ewrc-results.com/penalty/41079-rallye-automobile-monte-carlo-2021/

In 21 it was a lot of 5 sec penalties for wrong route on stage. But in the last two years very few.
is that due to drivers no longer making the large cuts, or that the organisers dont check as eagerly, and wait for protests?

ouvreur

23rd January 2023, 07:07

It was discussed during Team Managers Meeting and also Safety Briefing. The rule says you need to have at least one wheel on the road, it don't need to be marked in the roadbook. For me it was almost sure some people will make videos of that corner and use it for some protests.

But with all respect, it may be discussed or clarified in team manager meetings, but the rule itself is not fit for purpose. It's causing problem after problem on tarmac events - and will only continue to do so. "At least one wheel on the road" isn't a rallying rule, it's a circuit racing rule. How long until a competitor protests another for having just 1cm of the tread of one wheel touching the road - should the full contact patch be touching?

If cars putting all four wheels off the road is such a 'safety' issue, then it should be made impossible for them to do so. In Finland, the organisers use anti-cut devices to keep the average speeds down. What's stopping organisers doing that anywhere else in the world?

We should never, ever be in a situation where a driver taking a marginally more aggressive line on a rally, that is possible to take without smashing up some barriers or obstacles / going through tape etc., gets a time penalty. That's not rallying.

J4MIE

23rd January 2023, 07:19

It all depends on the road book, if a certain corner, and a certain route through this corner is shown on diagrams than its all clear, if not you can get from A to B preaty much freestyle ;)

No, you have to be on the defined road at all times. Only exception I’ve found is the Safari where there may be multiple tracks between points on the road book.
Even the stewards report stated where it occurred between road book tulips.

But with all respect, it may be discussed or clarified in team manager meetings, but the rule itself is not fit for purpose. It's causing problem after problem on tarmac events - and will only continue to do so. "At least one wheel on the road" isn't a rallying rule, it's a circuit racing rule. How long until a competitor protests another for having just 1cm of the tread of one wheel touching the road - should the full contact patch be touching?

If cars putting all four wheels off the road is such a 'safety' issue, then it should be made impossible for them to do so. In Finland, the organisers use anti-cut devices to keep the average speeds down. What's stopping organisers doing that anywhere else in the world?

We should never, ever be in a situation where a driver taking a marginally more aggressive line on a rally, that is possible to take without smashing up some barriers or obstacles / going through tape etc., gets a time penalty. That's not rallying.

Maybe organisers have better things to do than work out where everyone might break the perfectly good rules and spend the time & money to set up obstructions. There is exactly the same “controversy” when people hit these, or if cars ahead move them out the way, or indeed spectators.

There are all sorts of reasons that make this rule sensible, it might be a condition of using the roads. People are less tolerant of roads being ripped up due to a rally or having to clean up gravel/mud that’s been spread everywhere. People in rallying have to be responsible. Long gone are the days of just being able to do whatever they want.

denkimi

23rd January 2023, 07:27

Although a rule of keeping at least 1 wheel on the track seems to make a little sense, the enforcement of it depending on competitors making a complaint, based on video's made by spectators does not.

This creates arbitrary decisions. You are allowed to cut as deep as you want, as long as nobody films it and puts it online. So either put physical anti-cut barriers out there, put an official with a camera who films everyone, or just don't bother and get rid of the rule all together.

Danny0405

23rd January 2023, 07:29

This started in Monte 2021 against Toksport, check how long the penalty list was then:

https://www.ewrc-results.com/penalty/41079-rallye-automobile-monte-carlo-2021/

Well, if you take a close look, almost every big RC2 driver took a penalty in 2021, not only Toksport (all the Citroen were penalized with Bonato-Rossel-Camilli and not only them), and almost all the penalties were in SS11. And a lot of RC1 drivers where also penalized for the same reason in that stage.
I don’t have the full history but it looks like more a strange spot in the stage than a dirty blow from someone (and if it’s a competitor that did this, doesn’t look to be Citroen).
Which is pretty different than Ypres 2022 or Monte 2023

ouvreur

23rd January 2023, 07:42

Well, if you take a close look, almost every big RC2 driver took a penalty in 2021, not only Toksport (all the Citroen were penalized with Bonato-Rossel-Camilli and not only them), and almost all the penalties were in SS11. And a lot of RC1 drivers where also penalized for the same reason in that stage.
I don’t have the full history but it looks like more a strange spot in the stage than a dirty blow from someone (and if it’s a competitor that did this, doesn’t look to be Citroen).
Which is pretty different than Ypres 2022 or Monte 2023

You are quite right. If memory serves, the 'query' was between the manufacturer teams, not WRC2/3.

ouvreur

23rd January 2023, 07:59

Maybe organisers have better things to do than work out where everyone might break the perfectly good rules and spend the time & money to set up obstructions. There is exactly the same “controversy” when people hit these, or if cars ahead move them out the way, or indeed spectators.
But you see, that's exactly my point. Organisers are already doing just that in a lot of places, but not everywhere. That's why for me, the FIA should either make it mandatory to completely 'define the roadway' consistently - everywhere - or just get rid of the rule, and only insist to organisers that it be done in places where it's a safety issue, or PR concern. Which takes us to the next point...

There are all sorts of reasons that make this rule sensible, it might be a condition of using the roads. People are less tolerant of roads being ripped up due to a rally or having to clean up gravel/mud that’s been spread everywhere. People in rallying have to be responsible. Long gone are the days of just being able to do whatever they want.
In places where it's a public relations issue, safety matter, or condition of using the road - guess what! - organisers already put anti-cut devices. Otherwise - guess what!! - crews will take the cut. As well as that, I can tell you from personal experience as part of the organising team for a tarmac closed road rally, that it is already a condition of using the public highway that the roadway should be cleaned before it is reopened - either that, or the municipal council will do it themselves and send the bill. Organisers won't get away with being irresponsible.

So again, if the rule is intended to keep residents on the stages happy / roads clean, it isn't fit for purpose. There's no way in which it's fit for purpose. We don't need an ambiguous rule that, as someone else on here has said, only gets enforced if someone is unlucky enough to get filmed breaking it. It's a nonsense, and it causes nothing but problems.

Rallyper

23rd January 2023, 09:11

Gryazin's cut

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxkkGHFAd6hQ2p9CUR4wyEt06TohEBDYhW

Same corner Oliver was off in 1 st run?
In that case Gryazin wasn´t the only one having wrong route...
Edit: Yes, must be SS11/SS14 same stage. Entrevaux 1/2.
That corner had been cut by so many other cars it was gravel on tarmac all over.

Rallyper

23rd January 2023, 09:13

Who asked you anything? You probably have internet thanks to othe EU members and donations, nothing else.

Just a wannabe troll from somewhere faraway bs..

Sorry, you don´t have full story of N.O.T.
If you had, you wouldn´t have called him wannabee... (He´s been on this forum for ages, now and then...)

TypeR

23rd January 2023, 09:21

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnF9MyhXwAACMJf?format=jpg&name=small

EstWRC

23rd January 2023, 10:00

J-records vid https://youtu.be/dKGMWONJbEY

EstWRC

23rd January 2023, 10:16

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnF9MyhXwAACMJf?format=jpg&name=small

You can tell he is really proud of it

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230123/336f6b5ccf19014fccadd28b6020e545.jpg

dimviii

23rd January 2023, 13:36

Gryazin and Rossel at the cut

https://www.facebook.com/Turbo2Rallye/videos/681838940357334/

Sal yet again

23rd January 2023, 14:05

You can tell he is really proud of it

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230123/336f6b5ccf19014fccadd28b6020e545.jpg

Yes I drive a hybrid but also fly by private jet. Bit of a mixed message or will Toyota spin this as Carbon off-setting?!

wyler

23rd January 2023, 15:57

Yes I drive a hybrid but also fly by private jet. Bit of a mixed message or will Toyota spin this as Carbon off-setting?!

what has toyota to do with drivers private life?

Sal yet again

23rd January 2023, 16:02

what has toyota to do with drivers private life?

Ever heard the term Brand Ambassador? Personally I would do the same in his position and with his wealth. The one thing you cant buy is time so if he wants to get back to his family or a personal appointment then so be it. Just makes me grin that the sport is trying to push the sustainable angle when really it should just come clean (pardon the pun).

wyler

23rd January 2023, 16:34

Ever heard the term Brand Ambassador? Personally I would do the same in his position and with his wealth. The one thing you cant buy is time so if he wants to get back to his family or a personal appointment then so be it. Just makes me grin that the sport is trying to push the sustainable angle when really it should just come clean (pardon the pun).

i really don't get how people can mix up work duties, private life, social media, other stuff, just as a big bunch.
brand ambassador doesn't mean that much other than use his image in some markets, and honestly, i don't think they use ogier or rovampera to foster their greenwashing more than they use them for biochemical dept... especially in private life aspects.
they use them for things like the gr special, which is nowhere green.

dimviii

23rd January 2023, 16:42

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnHFis4WIAMYCzB?format=jpg&name=medium

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvqhkQ8Xles&feature=youtu.be

drive

23rd January 2023, 19:01

Yes I drive a hybrid but also fly by private jet. Bit of a mixed message or will Toyota spin this as Carbon off-setting?!

ye, then also go after F1 drivers - F1 much longer is involved in this hybrid sh..t and all of then flying private jets... just be calm :)

Sal yet again

23rd January 2023, 19:19

ye, then also go after F1 drivers - F1 much longer is involved in this hybrid sh..t and all of then flying private jets... just be calm :)

And Seb flew how far exactly?

Was quite happy to let this slide previously however now its this sort of thing that will be picked up on as rallying is a softer target for the detractors than F1. As I said previously if you cared to read my follow up I would have done the same in his situation so I'm not some angry greenager however mark my words it will become an issue in due course if we are not careful.

dupanton

23rd January 2023, 19:21

Regarding the 2021 cutting:
It was a short right hand corner followed by a long flat left hander. You could take the right hander flat(ish) and cut the left hander through the field.
I was RNC that year, these are the pictures of the spot:

This is where they come from (the right hander and the tracks from the first pass):
https://i.ibb.co/6b8YNCm/IMG-20210122-123852.jpg (https://ibb.co/RPN27w9)

This is the exit of the corner. As you can see from our car, they were cutting meters off the road in that case.
https://i.ibb.co/VTjQ5T5/IMG-20210122-123900.jpg (https://ibb.co/WfxPjfj)

ouvreur

23rd January 2023, 20:56

becher

23rd January 2023, 23:23

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/rossel-shouldnt-be-blamed-for-gryazins-fault/

Article about the matter in response to brainless social media comments.

steve.mandzij

24th January 2023, 03:43

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/rossel-shouldnt-be-blamed-for-gryazins-fault/

Article about the matter in response to brainless social media comments.dirtfish has poor journalistic quality and Luke Barry is definitely the worst of the bunch. it's not gryazin's fault for taking the fastest line through a corner full of dirt and gaining a negligible advantage, it's his team's fault for setting the precedent, and getting it's own medicine from the rivals they did the same to previously.

J4MIE

24th January 2023, 04:05

ouvreur

24th January 2023, 06:31

Part of rallying is making the rules - whether you agree with them or not - work for you, and if you can gain an advantage or make use of a grey area, then go for it.
People moaning need to get over it.

"People moaning" is the only way anything will change. Granted, not us moaning in here. But if everyone just shuts up and tolerates rules and ideas that aren't fit for purpose (not just this one) then it's no wonder rallying is dying on its arse.

cali

24th January 2023, 06:53

"People moaning" is the only way anything will change. Granted, not us moaning in here. But if everyone just shuts up and tolerates rules and ideas that aren't fit for purpose (not just this one) then it's no wonder rallying is dying on its arse."One wheel on the road" rule certainly is not at fault of rallying's current state.
Can I suggest to instead of moaning you propose another set of rules where competitors would follow the course and will not use off-road excursions to gain time?
I thinks it's a bloody good rule to have against cutting. Yes it created some controversy but this can be done basically with any rulebook. There's always someone who's not satisfied.

The problem is not the rules but we, the humans

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

bomber21

24th January 2023, 07:36

dirtfish has poor journalistic quality and Luke Barry is definitely the worst of the bunch. it's not gryazin's fault for taking the fastest line through a corner full of dirt and gaining a negligible advantage, it's his team's fault for setting the precedent, and getting it's own medicine from the rivals they did the same to previously.

Maybe Dirtfish has poor journalistic quality but they are the ONLY media related to rally. If it was not for them, we would have nothing, just one article per week from autosport.com

mknight

24th January 2023, 07:44

I will repeat what I was saying after Ypres. There need to be clearly defined rules that can be controlled and are not open to interpretation. Otherwise the controversies will be endless.

With this rule there is still a potential controversy in situations where the crew loses control. (Did they really miss the braking or was it on purpose?). But that's still much better than saying it's rallying and do what you want (See Mikkelsen and Meeke in 2014 and 2015?, as mentioned in the article, also note that one got money fine and other 1 min penalty).

There are potential improvements:
- Changing the deadlines for protests, protest for Saturday should have deadline early Sunday latest
- Organizers should put anticuts (like haybales) so that they block the car from going completely off the road, but they don't necessarily need to be at the edge of tarmac.

denkimi

24th January 2023, 12:07

"One wheel on the road" rule certainly is not at fault of rallying's current state.
Can I suggest to instead of moaning you propose another set of rules where competitors would follow the course and will not use off-road excursions to gain time?
I thinks it's a bloody good rule to have against cutting. Yes it created some controversy but this can be done basically with any rulebook. There's always someone who's not satisfied.

The problem is not the rules but we, the humans

Although the rule in itself is made with good intensions, it's just impossible to properly check and enforce in rallying.
If you have to rely on complaints from other competitors, and accidental video evidence by spectators, you just create an unequal playing field.

At that same corner gryazin was penalised for, many cars have cut. Many of them are clearly seen on video, even at least one wrc1 car. Yet only gryazin gets a penalty here. Rightfully so, he cut where he shouldn't have. But everybody else who took the same cut should get the same penalty.

Like it is now, it just opens the door to random penalty's. Either you have officials who notice the infractions and remains there for the entire duration of the stage, or you don't penalise at all for cutting where that is physically possible.

rallyfiend

24th January 2023, 12:19

Although the rule in itself is made with good intensions, it's just impossible to properly check and enforce in rallying.
If you have to rely on complaints from other competitors, and accidental video evidence by spectators, you just create an unequal playing field.

At that same corner gryazin was penalised for, many cars have cut. Many of them are clearly seen on video, even at least one wrc1 car. Yet only gryazin gets a penalty here. Rightfully so, he cut where he shouldn't have. But everybody else who took the same cut should get the same penalty.

Like it is now, it just opens the door to random penalty's. Either you have officials who notice the infractions and remains there for the entire duration of the stage, or you don't penalise at all for cutting where that is physically possible.

Well argued.

This is the problem the FIA will face. Are they there to genuinely police and enforce rules, or are they just there to adjudicate when someone complains.....

They risk being seen to be completely passive and thus reasonably dispensable....

wyler

24th January 2023, 12:42

Although the rule in itself is made with good intensions, it's just impossible to properly check and enforce in rallying.
If you have to rely on complaints from other competitors, and accidental video evidence by spectators, you just create an unequal playing field.

At that same corner gryazin was penalised for, many cars have cut. Many of them are clearly seen on video, even at least one wrc1 car. Yet only gryazin gets a penalty here. Rightfully so, he cut where he shouldn't have. But everybody else who took the same cut should get the same penalty.

Like it is now, it just opens the door to random penalty's. Either you have officials who notice the infractions and remains there for the entire duration of the stage, or you don't penalise at all for cutting where that is physically possible.

i don't think is random. everyone could have submitted the same protest for anyone who is seen on the video. if this didn't happen it's just because for others it would be not worthy enough.

PLuto

24th January 2023, 15:36

Yes, you're right and I assume somebody must have done some mistakes.

And also some cars (I've seen Ford's and Hyundai's) with the number on the roof, when it should be on the top right corner of the windscreen...

There was a mistake from organiser as they delivered to team only one sticker instead of two. So somebody put it on front windscreen, somebody to the rear. Only later they have delivered second one to the teams...

PLuto

24th January 2023, 16:14

Oliver wins PS in WRC2 and finishes 2:18 after Gryazin, with one puncture and one off loosing some 3:30...

Not true. Oliver was not competing in WRC2, so he cannot win PS.

Rallyper

24th January 2023, 16:46

Not true. Oliver was not competing in WRC2, so he cannot win PS.

You know what it means to be fastest, don´t you?

Matti

24th January 2023, 18:24

Big crash Compilation | WRC Rally Monte Carlo 2023

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw1u--4-f28&ab_channel=Carmovie

2375

dimviii

24th January 2023, 19:02

unbelievable
https://twitter.com/MundoRallyes/status/1617974570136539137

EstWRC

24th January 2023, 19:14

the behaviour of the fans and marshalls was really shit this year IMO

what the hell was that what dimviii posted and the fans with their naked asses and making love on stage side and putting drivers into danger with the ice making, also i saw many times them standing in idiotic places. the opening ceremony was also a joke with a host who was barely talking english

i know it wont be dropped from the calendar but if it would be for couple of years, i wouldnt miss it to be honest. at least not this bone dry Monte what we had last year and this year