[WRC] Rally Estonia 15-18 July 2021

[dimviii]

I almost got lost in the article.

So:
- the car difs are badly developed
- the brake pipes get ruptured all the time
- the calipers? cause the brakes to suddenly stop working

On top of that he said he had intercom issues and broken front suspension on SS5.

I mean it surely is possible he had all those issues. But one has to wonder why he has a ton of issues on basically every WRC rally he does.

Here in Estonia the puncture on SS6 was from mowing down a concrete anti-cut (3:52 onboard), the second one on SS15 I am not sure, there are some hard hits between 4 and 4:20, but maybe I missed something.

Mads was always on excuses when he dont win.

[Mirek]

https://worldrally.se/assets/uploads/2021/07/Lukyanuk-artikel-1100x733.jpg

Can't help myself but this image looks very comical to me. Russian invasion of Estonia stopped by those British tanks on top :D

[EstWRC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPMEmms-nsc

[dimviii]

porky is alive after the roll.

https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2021/photos/rally-estonia_2021/vms_dsc_8701.jpg

[dimviii]

https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2021/photos/rally-estonia_2021/mma_img_6680.jpg
https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2021/photos/rally-estonia_2021/mma_img_6829.jpg
https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2021/photos/rally-estonia_2021/mma_img_6657.jpg
https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2021/photos/rally-estonia_2021/mma_img_7890.jpg

[skarderud]

I see now 2 kind of reactions: from Greece (south) it's nothing and from Norway (north) you have to ban him almost forever :D It couldn't be more apart as you can see.

I'm personally OK what FIA decided and just let it go.Are you ok with this?
Terrifying.

This is driving that will make rallying banned in several countries if it continues.

FIA actually disqualify Veiby rest of season to make a point, but this is ok......

Wonder what would happen if this was a unknown lokal guy? I can tell you that the reaction would been totaly different.

Østberg had to make a "i'm sorry" video when he said "f..k pirelli", this is on a quite different level!

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[wyler]

Are you ok with this?
Terrifying.

This is driving that will make rallying banned in several countries if it continues.

FIA actually disqualify Veiby rest of season to make a point, but this is ok......

Wonder what would happen if this was a unknown lokal guy? I can tell you that the reaction would been totaly different.

Østberg had to make a "i'm sorry" video when he said "f..k pirelli", this is on a quite different level!

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

seems like you all never witnessed a liaison between stage, especially the bits near the starts. I've seen worst things than the shown video even at Monza show!!! : )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQwzC444ZNk

to be clear: not justifying such a big breach, but everyone is basically speeding on liaison, burning red light, invading opposite track overtaking where forbidden, using the emergency lane, slaloming, drifting, being escorted by police to overtake traffic jams (just to mention things I witnessed personally). most of the time, liaisons timiming are impossible to target without speeding in the traffic...

[the sniper]

Luky trolling
https://twitter.com/RallyingUK/status/1417002009283104768

https://worldrally.se/assets/uploads/2021/07/Lukyanuk-artikel-1100x733.jpg

This image, his story on this rally, being largely ignored by the WRC(+, at least) again, trouncing everyone on his Baltic stomping ground, really perfectly sums up Lukyanuk's career.

Everyone knows the likes of McRae, but for the rallying hardcore following the sport today, we'll never forget Lukyanuk!

[cali]

Are you ok with this?
Terrifying.

This is driving that will make rallying banned in several countries if it continues.

FIA actually disqualify Veiby rest of season to make a point, but this is ok......

Wonder what would happen if this was a unknown lokal guy? I can tell you that the reaction would been totaly different.

Østberg had to make a "i'm sorry" video when he said "f..k pirelli", this is on a quite different level!

Sent fra min SM-G950F via TapatalkYes, even if it's terrifying to you I'm OK with it.
To greeks this is absolutely nothing ;) if my statement was terrifying I cant even imagine what this is to you ;)

I'm not living in a fantasy world where wrc stars are not speeding - it happens for whatever reasons. Thierry had his reasons and while it wasn't nice and to you "terrifying" it was dealt accordingly by FIA. It's over now, no need to cry about this or Mads case (I found the decision in his case also justified) or Veiby (justified) anymore.

One solution is to make liasions more realistic. It would help a lot.

I still remember one finnish hypocrite member here who wrote to the FIA once...

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[skarderud]

Yes, even if it's terrifying to you I'm OK with it.
To greeks this is absolutely nothing ;) if my statement was terrifying I cant even imagine what this is to you ;)

I'm not living in a fantasy world where wrc stars are not speeding - it happens for whatever reasons. Thierry had his reasons and while it wasn't nice and to you "terrifying" it was dealt accordingly by FIA. It's over now, no need to cry about this or Mads case (I found the decision in his case also justified) or Veiby (justified) anymore.

One solution is to make liasions more realistic. It would help a lot.

I still remember one finnish hypocrite member here who wrote to the FIA once...

Sent from my GM1913 using TapatalkI've been around rallying for 25-30 years, i've grown up in the middle of the stages at Rally Finnskog and i've know pretty well how this has been thru the years.

But times has changed, this is not ok anymore. If we wan't rallying to continue in the future, such stupidity has to end.

I have also done speeding at liasons, but 20-30 km/h is one thing, this is on another level, this is utterly madness and some real bad judgment.

Its quite easy to end it to, more time on liasons and harder punishments.

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[mknight]

This image, his story on this rally, being largely ignored by the WRC(+, at least) again, trouncing everyone on his Baltic stomping ground, really perfectly sums up Lukyanuk's career.

Everyone knows the likes of McRae, but for the rallying hardcore following the sport today, we'll never forget Lukyanuk!

Lukyanuk said it himself at the post event press conference. He just wants to drive with no pressure for points or anything like that. If he bins it so be it.

Spectacular and fun to follow.

[mknight]

One solution is to make liasions more realistic. It would help a lot.



The easiest solution is to check tracker logs from liasons.

Anything with over 20%-30%? above speedlimits over more than a few secs will result in penalty as big as the time "gained" by speeding to timecontrol.

If you have a technical problem that cause you to be late, then you will be late, this is not a traffic jam which is external influence.


Speedtracking is already done in recce, after similar kind of issues.

[AnttiL]

One solution is to make liasions more realistic. It would help a lot.

They are. It all works until the driver has issues between stages (or wants to make setup changes). And if we would give them 15 extra minutes between every stage for "possible servicing", it would mean less time to drive the stages during the day and shorter rallies.

[cali]

I've been around rallying for 25-30 years, i've grown up in the middle of the stages at Rally Finnskog and i've know pretty well how this has been thru the years.

But times has changed, this is not ok anymore. If we wan't rallying to continue in the future, such stupidity has to end.

Its quite easy to end it to, more time on liasons and harder punishments.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

Sure, speeding on liasions is not OK.
Like I (and you) said more time on liasions is a solution. I have never been even close to organizing a rally so If we have someone here who knows more about it could tell if this is realistic or not.
Punishments alone don't change a lot of what's going on.

Ah and btw as I understood 190 kph was just before TC and it was so called closed road. It's not an excuse but less risks on such kind of a road

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[AnttiL]

Ah and btw as I understood 190 kph was just before TC and it was so called closed road. It's not an excuse but less risks on such kind of a road

Likely no vehicles but people working on stageside parking, marshals, spectators walking, the TC crew, other competitors warming up their muscles or setting tyre pressures while waiting for their turn etc.

[cali]

They are. It all works until the driver has issues between stages (or wants to make setup changes). And if we would give them 15 extra minutes between every stage for "possible servicing", it would mean less time to drive the stages during the day and shorter rallies.

We're not talking about 15 min but few minutes. On this case Thierry was a minute late (with speeding).

But yes, less stages and stage kms will be the result of it...

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[mknight]

Why should they get extra time (on liasons) to fix car issues? If the car has issues and is late it should get a penalty or retire/SR.

[cali]

Why should they get extra time (on liasons) to fix car issues? If the car has issues and is late it should get a penalty or retire/SR.No you didn't get it. That's in general not bcs of technical problems

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[denkimi]

Or you do as in portugal and you give them each a police escort that allows them to break every single traffic rule.

[bomber21]

Why should they get extra time (on liasons) to fix car issues? If the car has issues and is late it should get a penalty or retire/SR.
Because we only have two and a half manufacturers and 10 or less WRC cars and we don’t want to make them less during a rally.

[TypeR]

some forgot what they said about Tänak's Monte case.. lol

So Neuville has technical problems on road section and suddenly liaison time should be bigger..?

It is legal to drive +100kmh on public road?

Tänak drove on the side of the road on 3.5 wheels @50-70kmh, had to retire after long liaison and got a suspended ban if happens more..
Ogier caused an accident, left the scene, ran a red light and got suspended ban if happens more..
Neuville drove +100kmh on public road and is basically still allowed to go over speed limit up to 30% till a suspended ban..

Such things don't go along FIAs road safety thing..

[mknight]

Because we only have two and a half manufacturers and 10 or less WRC cars and we don’t want to make them less during a rally.

We already have superrally for that.

Also late for TC won't remove you from the rally. (Max timelimit is some 30 mins over?).

[cali]

some forgot what they said about Tänak's Monte case.. lol

So Neuville has technical problems on road section and suddenly liaison time should be bigger..?

It is legal to drive +100kmh on public road?

Tänak drove on the side of the road on 3.5 wheels @50-70kmh, had to retire after long liaison and got a suspended ban if happens more..
Ogier caused an accident, left the scene, ran a red light and got suspended ban if happens more..
Neuville drove +100kmh on public road and is basically still allowed to go over speed limit up to 30% till a suspended ban..

Such things don't go along FIAs road safety thing..

If this was towards me I think you're reaching things LOL

Now to make it clear:

- I'm OK with these penalties
- in general if this helps against speeding, suggestion was to extend liasion times so that speeding doesn't occur. This is preventative suggestion. Not a demand. It's in a form of a discussion - you know that kind of discussion where people try to come up with solutions. Nothing to do with Neuville, sometimes liasion times are too tight and it can cause more speeding. As far as I've heard Thierry wasn't the only one.
- driving on 3 wheels or 190 kph on public roads is not legal. Both cases got penalized and rightfully so. In both cases nobody said (except the greeks :D) that this was acceptable - again you are reaching for things that wasn't said.

If you want to reach for nonexistent case, go ahead but I guess It's too damn hard for you to understand so I even don't know if my answer helps anyway.



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[denkimi]

some forgot what they said about Tänak's Monte case.. lol

So Neuville has technical problems on road section and suddenly liaison time should be bigger..?

It is legal to drive +100kmh on public road?

Tänak drove on the side of the road on 3.5 wheels @50-70kmh, had to retire after long liaison and got a suspended ban if happens more..
Ogier caused an accident, left the scene, ran a red light and got suspended ban if happens more..
Neuville drove +100kmh on public road and is basically still allowed to go over speed limit up to 30% till a suspended ban..

Such things don't go along FIAs road safety thing..
Just like the hybrid thing, the road safety is nothing more than some PR bullshit. Nobody cares about it, it's only there to supress some of the anti motorsport people.

[meh]

Neuville "karma payment": https://twitter.com/thierryneuville/status/1417060203049234433

This donation move was decided before the rally, but with this overspeeding context it is a bit ironic.

And to be clear: I don't want to let this donation move down or show it anyhow in bad shade.

[meh]

and do not get you bored, then Clark-Rating is out: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/colin-clarks-2021-rally-estonia-ratings/

TL;DR:
* Kalle Rovanperä 10/10
* Sebastién Ogier 7/10
* Elfyn Evans 6/10
* Takamoto Katsuta 8/10
* Craig Breen 9/10
* Thierry Neuville 7/10
* Ott Tanäk 4/10
* Pierre-Louis Loubet 7/10
* Gus Greensmith 7/10
* Teemu Suninen 3/10


Takamoto, Loubet and Greensmith are a bit overrated for my taste, with others I can agree.

[mknight]

and do not get you bored, then Clark-Rating is out: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/colin-clarks-2021-rally-estonia-ratings/

TL;DR:
* Kalle Rovanperä 10/10
* Sebastién Ogier 7/10
* Elfyn Evans 6/10
* Takamoto Katsuta 8/10
* Craig Breen 9/10
* Thierry Neuville 7/10
* Ott Tanäk 4/10
* Pierre-Louis Loubet 7/10
* Gus Greensmith 7/10
* Teemu Suninen 3/10


Takamoto, Loubet and Greensmith are a bit overrated for my taste, with others I can agree.

Agree those 3 are the only ones where I would consider more than 1 point difference.

Others I would give 8 to Breen due to that Saturday rock where he was crazy lucky, maybe 5 to Evans and 3 to Tanak. But that's small differences.

Clark is giving ok ratings lately, specially compared with that 10/10 to Evans in Monza.

[AnttiL]

Suninen's comment once again:

Oli kyllä yksi uran vaikeimmista ja huonoimmista kilpailuista. Ralli oli täynnä tekniikkamurheita. Lauantaiaamu oli ainoa hetki, kun niitä ei ollut. Silloinkin ne vesipumput ovat tosin ongelmana, kun pitää olla niin varovainen hypyissä

https://www.rallit.fi/teemu-suninen-paljasti-kalustonsa-tuleviin-mm-ralleihin/

This translates as: "It was one of my most difficult and worst races. The rally was filled with technical trouble. Saturday morning was the only time when we didn't have any. Even then we had the water pumps as problem, as we have to be so careful in the jumps"

He has repeated this in Finnish interviews, but I don't think it's mentioned by a single word in the international interviews.

[mknight]

Has Tanak said anything about his SS3 puncture anywhere?

Cause WRC and Dirtfish claim everywhere how it was nothing he could do.
Yet watching the onboard he goes wide into the forrest after a jump with that side at 2:20 ish and then maybe more importantly hits a small "bridge"/wooden log in the ditch at about 3:15 after which the tire seems to go off on next corner (sound).

It might be that the first excursion at 2:20 damaged it, but the one at 3:15 definitely made it prominent.

Kind of weird that WRC+ miss this or are not bothered to check afterwards.

[seb_sh]

Agree those 3 are the only ones where I would consider more than 1 point difference.

Others I would give 8 to Breen due to that Saturday rock where he was crazy lucky, maybe 5 to Evans and 3 to Tanak. But that's small differences.

Clark is giving ok ratings lately, specially compared with that 10/10 to Evans in Monza.

Indeed I've bashed him in the past but ratings are ok this time, plus minus here and there but overall good.

[faateris]

Rally Estonia 2021' photos - http://janisasaris.com/en/home

JA

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Awesome fan video of BIG jumps:

https://youtu.be/hPMEmms-nsc

WRC+ & TV will never capture these true rally sights and sounds.

[meh]

Awesome fan video of BIG jumps:

https://youtu.be/hPMEmms-nsc

WRC+ & TV will never capture these true rally sights and sounds.

goosepumps and heart ratio increase for only wathing the video, and those are the scenes why you are going to rally... not sitting in closed area with other noisy thousand people.

[dimviii]

https://twitter.com/Umlaut_doubleN/status/1417766512111374336

[Lancia Stratos]

goosepumps and heart ratio increase for only wathing the video, and those are the scenes why you are going to rally... not sitting in closed area with other noisy thousand people.

To stand at some of those locations is pure and simple stupid.

[SubaruNorway]

To stand at some of those locations is pure and simple stupid.

Don't know what the corner before the first jump is but the only really scary thing I see is the marshall jumping into the ditch on the outside of a corner

[EstWRC]

https://twitter.com/paddocknews/status/1418122624807362562?s=21

[Franky]

Some not the most positive news. At the moment 13 spectators have been tested positive.

https://sport.postimees.ee/7299658/koroonapuhang-rally-estonia-kulastajate-seas-tuvastati-13-nakatunut

[Mirek]

Some not the most positive news. At the moment 13 spectators have been tested positive.

https://sport.postimees.ee/7299658/koroonapuhang-rally-estonia-kulastajate-seas-tuvastati-13-nakatunut

That's really small number not really worth talking about. Moreover for sure not all of them got infected during the rally, maybe not any of them.

[EstWRC]

That's really small number not really worth talking about. Moreover for sure not all of them got infected during the rally, maybe not any of them.

Exactly. The article states already that one dude got infected from a club in Tartu earlier.

[joe1888cfc]

Awesome fan video of BIG jumps:

https://youtu.be/hPMEmms-nsc

WRC+ & TV will never capture these true rally sights and sounds.

Brilliant

[AnttiL]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/why-estonias-contentious-powerstage-will-stay/

A lot of criciticism on the power stage. It will stay, but with updates.

[EstWRC]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/why-estonias-contentious-powerstage-will-stay/

A lot of criciticism on the power stage. It will stay, but with updates.

Hyundai Motorsport team principal Andrea Adamo was among those who felt the powerstage was a poor fit for the rest of the rally.

“This event has been nice, nice, nice, nice, nice, nice. And maybe they just didn’t want to be perfect, so they did a powerstage which was not at the level of the event,” he said.

“That was not great. It wasn’t representative and it’s something we didn’t need here.”

lol

[AnttiL]

I met one of my friends who's really not a rally fan, but he said he had casually tuned in during Rally Estonia, turned on the TV. He said to me "it was weird that they only drove in the park" :D (turns out he had only watched Thursday and Sunday). So it's not just us hardcore fans who find that park power stage awkward.

[AnttiL]

Did I hear right..? Tänak said 4 rallies left.. mistake or knows smth more?

Interesting comment in hindsight…