[WRC] Rally Estonia 15-18 July 2021

[seb_sh]

So for his money Greensmith got a car that overheated after 3 stages and now the steering isn't straight and the centre diff is unusable unless locked. Maybe a WRC2 campaign would have been a better investment...

[meh]

Evans turned car to stage mode finally? (compared to Ogier)

[dimviii]

Greensmith Gus - Patterson Chris
"Very rutted. Tracks are very narrow but it doesn't matter because the steering has been like this (misaligned) since service.."

[Tauri_J]

Seb is slightly pissed off lol

[dimviii]

hahaha
Tanak the stage was very tricky.

[dimviii]

Tarvo Stint
@tarvo52
Collected some bits and pieces from the field after Ott and Martin visited it. Returned to Hyundai and got Martins shoes in return. All parties are happy!


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6fP5lEWEAMSog8?format=jpg&name=small
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6fP5lJWUAIW5g-?format=jpg&name=small

[dimviii]

Kalle

https://twitter.com/ma_ipp/status/1416367438745190400

[ZequeArgentina]

Bulacia is upping his pace. Good progress to this young Bolivian


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

[meh]

I wonder, what is the risk-level for Tänak at the moment. Really impressive times - but he does not have any hurries. He don't need to take any risk, but he can take risks because nothing to loose at the moment. Only if he bricks the car and can not fight tomorrow for points on "not a stage".

[dimviii]

Lukyanuk Alexey - Fedorov Yaroslav
"(How are you fast?) I have a feeling that someone is always trying to pass me!"

[Tauri_J]

I wonder, what is the risk-level for Tänak at the moment. Really impressive times - but he does not have any hurries. He don't need to take any risk, but he can take risks because nothing to loose at the moment. Only if he bricks the car and can not fight tomorrow for points on "not a stage".

We all know he's the fastest guy on the gravel plus its his home event. So that being said I dont think he's on the limit.

[RS]

Lukyanuk Alexey - Fedorov Yaroslav
"(How are you fast?) I have a feeling that someone is always trying to pass me!"

They keep asking 'Why are you so fast?.. Why don't you take it easy?' but frankly what would be the point in that? He's not here for championship points so he may as well have fun and show his pace.

[meh]

With those impressive times Tänak makes compliment for Hyundai engineers - car is fast and competitive. Just Tänak himself don't deliver expected points this time.

[meh]

Breen 7sec down in 2nd split. Taking no risks or some slow puncture?

edit: 8.7sec in finish, no problems.

[meh]

... another puncture for Ostberg

[meh]

WRC Live signal down. How come?

[Tauri_J]

WRC Live signal down. How come?

Village broadcasting team

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Heli shots and stage-side camera's make such a difference to the viewing experience.

[Sulland]

What is the status of daniel barritts back today?

[er88]

More Msport problems......

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport don't have their full team of engineers here as in Kenya. This is due to the travel restrictions and they would have to self-isolate on return to the UK. This may have something to do with their issues.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Seems the driver's are now settling for their current positions already.

Any opinions on Julian Porter's suggestion of awarding a point for each fastest stage time ?

[SubaruNorway]

On a road car you should reset the steering angle sensor when doing wheel alignment, might have just forgot that

[Päss1928]

Any opinions on Julian Porter's suggestion of awarding a point for each fastest stage time ?

I think it would be a great idea. If 1 point for each stage is too much then could just award like 3-2-1 points for most stage wins of the rally.

[meh]

Seems the driver's are now settling for their current positions already.

Any opinions on Julian Porter's suggestion of awarding a point for each fastest stage time ?

This discussion have been here so many times, there are pros and cons.

Positive: it gives opportunity to collect some extra points and gives things always interesting, no massive nursing from everyone.
Negative: road position is not equal, specially on Friday for championship leader it's quite a penalty.

Additionally, probably getting late to stage should not be allowed to score points then. Otherwise no rally2 driver starts on time.

[meh]

With current dust problems Hyundai should drop Tänak's start position further from Neuville to give him better vision.

[jonkka]

Any opinions on Julian Porter's suggestion of awarding a point for each fastest stage time ?

That is already done in JWRC and I am not big fan of it, though it can be implemented in various ways. Since there already is Power Stage to cater for that one, out-and-out very fast outburst, I don't see any reason to expand the practice. It would not increase the excitement, drivers aren't exactly cruising now (except those who are way back and have rejoined only for PS points) and they aren't stupid enough to jeopardize bigger score they'd bag by finishing for small potential prize for stage win. Hence, only those with nothing to lose would go for the points.

[meh]

With current dust problems Hyundai should drop Tänak's start position further from Neuville to give him better vision.

... and based on current maps Neuville seems to start before Tänak.

edit: and they did it.

edit 2: and to help Breen, Tänak could stay on side of road and let Breen go first. But this could not fair for Rovanperä.

[Tauri_J]

Seems the driver's are now settling for their current positions already.

Any opinions on Julian Porter's suggestion of awarding a point for each fastest stage time ?

Been saying this for a while.

[Ucci]

This discussion have been here so many times, there are pros and cons.

Positive: it gives opportunity to collect some extra points and gives things always interesting, no massive nursing from everyone.
Negative: road position is not equal, specially on Friday for championship leader it's quite a penalty.

Additionally, probably getting late to stage should not be allowed to score points then. Otherwise no rally2 driver starts on time.

At first I thought this would not be bad idea. But when @meh wrote the negative side, I agree 100% it is a bad idea…not fair for the 1st driver cleaning the road….

[skarderud]

3-2-1 points for the most stagewins on saturday and sunday. Everyone happy:)

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[meh]

3-2-1 points for the most stagewins on saturday and sunday. Everyone happy:)

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

Here is more choice - "stage wins per day" or "best overall time per day".

"Per day" points are more fair - because on some rallies are some short stages and on others long ones which makes short ones more valuable (points per km is higher).

"Best per day overall" would be nice on my opinion but after first regroup.


Alternative for all that - just make rally shorter, then there is no need to carry those positions some extra day or two. At the moment it feels that this rally it's time to finish.

But the real problem here is lack of competitors / manufacturers, if we could have more competitors, we most-likely should not have those "problems".

[Tauri_J]

At first I thought this would not be bad idea. But when @meh wrote the negative side, I agree 100% it is a bad idea…not fair for the 1st driver cleaning the road….

No cleaning on tarmac though.

[Franky]

Sometimes there are boring rallies, sometimes they are a ride on the edge of your seat. The moment everything is flat out all the time, it becomes the new norm and how the hell do you get excited then?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Point(s) for stage wins advantages those re-starting, so that would be unfair.

How about a point for a stage win but only available to those that have done all the previous stages ?

[seb_sh]

In principle a point for a stage win or points for most stage wins sound like a good addition but there are many "loopholes" that the teams could exploit for example someone like Tanak doing super rally and manipulating his start position. I like that it would make attacking more viable but it needs to be well thought out. The rule must be simple but avoid being exploited.

[focus206]

I don't see reasons for giving points for stage wins, honestly. If a driver finishes the rally in 3rd, he should get more points than the driver who finished in 4th. Power stage already gives a chance for this not to happen, and I think it's enough.
If you want to give a symbolic 1 or 2 points a day to the fastest driver do it, but more than that and you could have drivers who finish in 7th getting more points than drivers who finish in 3rd.

[Tauri_J]

Points for stage wins if you finish the rally without superrally and time penalties.

Obviously then a new points sytem is needed. 25 for winner is not enough. Here we have 24 stages already lol.

[EstWRC]

Thanks Ott for not cruising today. Amazing to watch the stage times

[EstWRC]

https://www.ewrc-results.com/leg/68114-rally-estonia-2021/?leg=2

[meh]

If Ostberg will not fall out from top10, then there have not been any position changes entire day. Stable, and a bit boring.

[SubaruNorway]

Katsusta not being very mindful of Barritt's back in SS4...
Moment at 1:20, big jump 1:50 and then goes huge on the jumps from 6:10 when he's clearly in a lot of pain.

[scn]

Interviewer: What makes you go so fast today?
Tanak: What else can we do? It'd be boring!

[Eli]

If Ostberg will not fall out from top10, then there have not been any position changes entire day. Stable, and a bit boring.

Breen did have a moment in there when he hit a rock, luckily for him, service was straight away (& close by).

[AnttiL]

https://www.ewrc-results.com/leg/68114-rally-estonia-2021/?leg=2

It's brutal how much Fiestas are losing

[RS]

Somewhat surprisingly, Bulacia 2nd quickest RC2 driver over leg two. Good job!

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6hOC9uWQAE-vZe?format=jpg&name=medium
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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6hJLiNXoAgKZ4Q?format=jpg&name=large

[er88]

Somewhat surprisingly, Bulacia 2nd quickest RC2 driver over leg two. Good job!Very good drive

[dimviii]

https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2021/photos/rally-estonia_2021/vms_dsc_7836.jpg
https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2021/photos/rally-estonia_2021/hfr_dsc_2574.jpg
https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2021/photos/rally-estonia_2021/vms_dsc_7829.jpg


more
https://www.ewrc-results.com/photo/68114-rally-estonia-2021/

[MartijnS]

Any videos of that big jump? Didn’t see any yet

[er88]

Kalle has been immense. To drive at that speed, with that control, ......we all know he is due a win. I hope he gets it.

Breen has driven perfectly, I really think Msport should give him a full season in factory car. Not many better alternatives?

Breen has barely been given a chance on rough rallies or tarmac events, but he is a very good tarmac driver. He grew up on tarmac stages

[er88]

Can't beat what was said last night on here...., have to appreciate what Luky is doing. Amazing.
Absolutely superb. He's killed Andreas.....

[1988senna]

when will Hyundai switch the position of Breen and Neuville.
Breen 30 seconds to Neuville ;Neuville 17 seconds to Ogier
I don't think it will happen too early . maybe the SS23 ??

[fredfush]

Greensmith 15 min late into Service?

[AnttiL]

Greensmith 15 min late into Service?

problems getting the car started from PF.

This stage looks quite tricky and technical. Not bad, but I wouldn't agree with the organizers on saying it's the best one. It's more like a a good spice, not the main dish. Also, seems like we're getting some ruts already...

[Red bull]

If there are no team orders this rally is already predictable,they are all keeping the status quo

[Red bull]

At least there is a good fight in Wrc 2.

[TypeR]

If Mads isn't in bad mood and car is working, he is way faster than the dominator

[Tauri_J]

I really hope Mads pulls this off.

[AnttiL]

If there are no team orders this rally is already predictable,they are all keeping the status quo

That's rallying! But you still need to get through the stages. The power stage will have a lot of hazards where to rip a wheel off.

BTW Tänak won the stage first on the road :D

[Red bull]

Mads said he is pushing the car to it's limit.

[AnttiL]

Also great push from Fourmaux, storming ahead of Bulacia! Game on!

[RS]

Mikelssen really needs to speed up if he wants to keep the 1st place.

[cosmin_sb]

Tanak and Neuville have the same time in the first two stage today 🙂

[jonkka]

Breen is bleeding time... I don't like implications in that...

[Tauri_J]

Estonian TV just told that Urmo is trying to push the idea of awarding points for stage wins in the final day of the rally. Will meet with FIA executives when PS will be run.

Take it with a grain of salt, but it is what they said.

[RS]

Estonian TV just told that Urmo is trying to push the idea of awarding points for stage wins in the final day of the rally. Will meet with FIA executives when PS will be run.

Take it with a grain of salt, but it is what they said.

Plus give them a fresh set of tyres for PS. That's half the problem.

[AnttiL]

LOL Kalevipoeg animation

[AnttiL]

We didn't get driver stage descriptions this time. :D

[er88]

Fair play to Mads, he's had impressive speed when trouble free. Could have easily zoned out after his troubles

[AnttiL]

I retain my opinion, this is quite an awful stage. It would be OK to end a long gravel stage onto the super special, but the beginning is just dreadful.

[Tauri_J]

lol 64,1 kmh, what a joke

[AnttiL]

Tänak's average speed 64.1 km/h.

[Tauri_J]

I retain my opinion, this is quite an awful stage. It would be OK to end a long gravel stage onto the super special, but the beginning is just dreadful.

Beginning wasnt that bad actually, Ott was on 5th gear couple of times. Middle part was more twisty and so loose and slow.

[EstWRC]

Kalevipoeg is the best thing about this power stage

[Tom K]

Ewrc is missing Kaur and he beated Luky on SS20. First different SS WRC 3 winner after 19 stages.

[meh]

All you complaining about this power-stage - it is weird in Rally Estonia context, but we have entire rallies like this.

[meh]

Ewrc is missing Kaur and he beated Luky on SS20. First different SS WRC 3 winner after 19 stages.

I think Luky is really "bring it home" mode now

[Tom K]

Of course, but he could be in that mode since yesterday afternoon and still was winning;)

[Tauri_J]

All you complaining about this power-stage - it is weird in Rally Estonia context, but we have entire rallies like this.

What do you mean? I dont get it

[EstWRC]

It will be very hard for Tänak to take points here. It’s cleaning massively

[Tauri_J]

It will be very hard for Tänak to take points here. It’s cleaning massively

This and Toyota's wheelbase is shorter.

[meh]

What do you mean? I dont get it

Rally Turkey for example?

[AnttiL]

Rally Turkey for example?

Even Rally Turkey stages are faster. Only super specials are typically this slow, or maybe in exceptional conditions.

[meh]

We did not have any position changes in top10 yesterday. Will we have today?

and the big question is, like Julian is speculating in All-Live, if Breen is 2nd and Neuville 3rd at the end of day, will we see team orders?

[Lead]

Ostberg ALWAYS with the issues :D

[meh]

Ostberg ALWAYS with the issues :D

Issueberg.

[meh]

Nice to see WRC3 field in live-stream finally

[Red bull]

The power stage is so slow, boring 😴

[Lead]

Lukyanuk showed wrc2 how its done.

[jonkka]

Do those spammers really think that people are braindead? Who would ever click such links?

[skarderud]

Lukyanuk showed wrc2 how its done.By getting beaten by Mikkelsen and Østberg with 5-6 seconds?

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[skarderud]

Mikelssen really needs to speed up if he wants to keep the 1st place.He playing safe, just controls it.
Can't make any more mistakes, have to bring solid points.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Fast Eddie WRC]

We did not have any position changes in top10 yesterday. Will we have today?

and the big question is, like Julian is speculating in All-Live, if Breen is 2nd and Neuville 3rd at the end of day, will we see team orders?

Breen:
'I am just trying to bring the car home. We have a good cushion back to third... '

[wwbroe]

By getting beaten by Mikkelsen and Østberg with 5-6 seconds?

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

You mean now that he is driving almost in road mode? He beated up both Mikkelsen and Ostberg in the first two days, so is just cruising to the finish now.

[1988senna]

Breen:
'I am just trying to bring the car home. We have a good cushion back to third... '

It's the comment after the SS20, What's that mean have a good cushion back to third

[dimviii]

By getting beaten by Mikkelsen and Østberg with 5-6 seconds?

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

lol.

[meh]

By getting beaten by Mikkelsen and Østberg with 5-6 seconds?

Context, gentlemen, context. I think here some Norwegian classes are involved a bit, Luky is cruising in safe mode to finish but Mikkelsen and Østberg are fighting for position.

[scn]

By getting beaten by Mikkelsen and Østberg with 5-6 seconds?


Lukyanuk is one minute ahead of Mikkelsen and Ostberg.

[Lead]

By getting beaten by Mikkelsen and Østberg with 5-6 seconds?

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

I was thinking about overall results. Of course today Lukyanuk is in cruise mode.

About Mikkelsen: very clever driving from him so far. I feel he really wasnt on his limit this weekend. Just exploiting opponents mistakes (punctures) and keeping it safe. Its all about points now. From the start there was no sense to go after Lukyanuk. They can fight their own battle week later in Rome.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It's the comment after the SS20, What's that mean have a good cushion back to third

Why would he mention having a cushion to third (Neuville) if he knew he'd be giving the place to him ?

[skarderud]

I was thinking about overall results. Of course today Lukyanuk is in cruise mode.

About Mikkelsen: very clever driving from him so far. I feel he really wasnt on his limit this weekend. Just exploiting opponents mistakes (punctures) and keeping it safe. Its all about points now. From the start there was no sense to go after Lukyanuk. They can fight their own battle week later in Rome.Exactly my point. Context.
They are in different classes, no point go idiot for any of them.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Lead]

I think Ostberg "brake problem" is just tactics against Mikkelsen

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Careful Teemu !

[Lead]

Exactly my point. Context.
They are in different classes, no point go idiot for any of them.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

All good, but it just goes against Mikkelsen's "domination" goal...

[skarderud]

All good, but it just goes against Mikkelsen's "domination" goal...Yeah, he's not dominating, probably not the best thing to proclaim before a season:)

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[dimviii]

Exactly my point. Context.
They are in different classes, no point go idiot for any of them.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

at first day while Mikkelsen was chasing Osberg and had very few seconds difference,Luky was faster too.
So Mikkelsen while pushing was slower from Luky.

[Red bull]

Mads is mad 😜

[meh]

Whoo, Bulacia faster than Mikkelsen and Ostberg :)

[Tauri_J]

Bulacia is very impressive and he is only 20 years old.

[AnttiL]

Bulacia's development is similar to Katsuta, at first he was very slow but getting there slowly. It's rare for drivers to develop like this, often they either show the pace right away, or never get it.

[dimviii]

Rally Estonia
@RallyEstonia
A weekend of troubles continues for Gus Greensmith, the car not wanting to start in the morning.

Spark plugs changed & they're now moving towards SS19.

[Tom K]

Rovanpera apparently checked in earlier for TC22... One minute penalty in system.

[AnttiL]

M-Sport has tweeted all weekend that Greensmith is 9th overall (he's actually 34th overall one hour from being 9th)

[meh]

Bulacia's development is similar to Katsuta, at first he was very slow but getting there slowly. It's rare for drivers to develop like this, often they either show the pace right away, or never get it.

I have more question - how many work-talented drivers we could have if they have (that expensive) opportunity to just learn and improve without being afraid to be kicked off without delivering results immediately. And to be clear, nothing against Bulacia and Katsuta, hats off for their development and hard work. Enjoyable to watch.

[AnttiL]

Rovanpera apparently checked in earlier for TC22... One minute penalty in system.

:O

[Tom K]

OK, now is gone. His check-in time was in red, but now it's OK.

[AnttiL]

OK, now is gone. His check-in time was in red, but now it's OK.

Dude you almost gave me a heart attack :D

[Tom K]

Sorry :) He had 12:01, and now is 12:02 for TC22 :)

[meh]

Tänak first on the road and getting more live-stream time is actually quite more enjoyable than watching some others drivers cruising through... (searching something positive in that)

[EstWRC]

Tänak first on the road and getting more live-stream time is actually quite more enjoyable than watching some others drivers cruising through... (searching something positive in that)

His speed is very impressive considering his starting position yesterday morning and today.

Yeah I know the others aren’t pushing today but so isn’t he.

[Tauri_J]

Organisers surely cant continue with a PS like this next season. They should extend the stage a lot further from the start of the stage to opposite direction. There are lots of roads to combine something worthful of a rally stage. Obviously not so nice stages like around Otepää. Reminds me polish roads, mostly around fields.

Could make a decent stage with an extremly fast start and slow ending. Should also get rid of those double hairpins which they have this year and make some shortcuts because its too god damn slow and boring right now.

https://i.postimg.cc/DJgdT8ry/raadi.png (https://postimg.cc/DJgdT8ry)

[meh]

What... some check-in-late panelty for Neuville?

[Tom K]

Penalty in system... just informing :cool:

[Tauri_J]

Do these reporters even follow the rally or just make interwievs??? What Thierry has to gain from this....

[meh]

This one certain reporter is not up to this role. Someone competent and enjoyable to listen could be valuated.

entire day: "just tell us what is your feeling..."

Is this some therapy session?

[dimviii]

while Ogier is mentioning that he is fighting with Evans for the championship,he is pushing to catch Neuville.
Gap with Evans is 42 sec.

[monsieur moustache]

So what really happened with Neuville?

[jonkka]

So what really happened with Neuville?

Everyone knows what - he checked in one minute late. But why is the question, nobody knows as it doesn't make any sense.

[Rally Hokkaido]

Fourmaux visited a corn field

[cali]

Everyone knows what - he checked in one minute late. But why is the question, nobody knows as it doesn't make any sense.Mistake by co-driver?

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

[Eli]

I think in a bid to swap positions between Craig & Thierry, Hyundai got their calculations wrong and sent Thierry at the wrong time, either that or miscommunication between the crews and HQ. Anyhow, I don't think it was intended, questions is, do you still give 2nd place to Neuville or do you order them to stay put?

[jonkka]

Breen can still collect 30s penalty, which would put him approx 5 seconds behind Neuville and 5 seconds ahead of Ogier. Not the safest possible gambit but possible.

[Got Mail]

Everyone knows what - he checked in one minute late. But why is the question, nobody knows as it doesn't make any sense.

The only reasons I can think of:

1. Try and tempt Ogier into taking some massive risks on PS by making the gap smaller. Highly Unlikely.
2. Protect Breen's position from 'team orders' by making the gap to him too big. Highly unlikely.
3. Co-Driver mistake. No chance.

[Tauri_J]

Urmo now in rallystudio and talking about powerstage. Obviously not a finished product. Talking about adding faster sections with jumps from the start like I mentioned couple pages ago.

[Fredouye]

The only reasons I can think of:

1. Try and tempt Ogier into taking some massive risks on PS by making the gap smaller. Highly Unlikely.
2. Protect Breen's position from 'team orders' by making the gap to him too big. Highly unlikely.
3. Co-Driver mistake. No chance.

Maybe they had to fix something / change some setup / swap tyres between the 2 stages…

[dimviii]

Bulacia ss 19
https://twitter.com/alekslesk/status/1416706583455744004

[Eli]

Maybe they had to fix something / change some setup / swap tyres between the 2 stages…

Or maybe just maybe the team or his co-driver made a mistake, I mean Thierry was pretty pissed at the end of the stage, it didn't look like it was intentional.

[meh]

Like Thierry commented - what kind of tactics it could be?

It is too early for getting penalties and change position, anything can still happen and you can shoot to your own leg with that. So it must be clearly happen without planning it to happen.

[seb_sh]

This one certain reporter is not up to this role. Someone competent and enjoyable to listen could be valuated.

entire day: "just tell us what is your feeling..."

Is this some therapy session?

Sometimes a simple question is better than a cringe one or a very complicated one that the drivers can't hear.

[seb_sh]

Can't think of any logical reason Thierry would do that in the circumstances, must be a mistake... Maybe he was thinking too much that Ogier said he is not fighting him for the championship :P

[meh]

Probably Breen is also not too sad about Neuvilles penalty

[meh]

Some pre-conclusions - before rally I thought it will be Tänak vs Toyotas, but it more turned to be Rovanperä vs Hyndais. Now there is just to wait that no sh*t happens and well deserved results can be delivered.

[Got Mail]

Bulacia ss 19
https://twitter.com/alekslesk/status/1416706583455744004

Lucky not to damage the radiator here.

Regardless, another super impressive performance from him on this event.

He's learning very quickly.

He'll need to increase his pace for next year when his younger (and reportedly faster) brother Bruno joins the fight.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport has tweeted all weekend that Greensmith is 9th overall (he's actually 34th overall one hour from being 9th)

9th position in Class RC1 for Manufacturer points.

[Rallyper]

We´ve seen several drivers suffered from driving beyond their limits. Not only this weekend.

Some very experienced as well.

Bulacia seems now for the moment reached his maximum. Let´s hope he reaches finishline.

[AnttiL]

This one certain reporter is not up to this role. Someone competent and enjoyable to listen could be valuated.

entire day: "just tell us what is your feeling..."

Is this some therapy session?

Yes, sadly she hasn't improved much from Monte 2020 (at that time there were big boots to fill with Colin Clark going to Dirtfish and Molly Pettit being on maternal leave).

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Another good drive by Fourmaux this weekend.

[meh]

Yes, sadly she hasn't improved much from Monte 2020 (at that time there were big boots to fill with Colin Clark going to Dirtfish and Molly Pettit being on maternal leave).

Yesterday, when Julian made stage-end interviews, for me it felt (yes, its subjective) that it was more like conversation with "equals" with drivers, more like enjoyable conversation instead of "ok, we need to get something done somehow".

Best option could get Seb Marshall or similar to do that job, but Seb is co-driving now again. Colin Clark is really entertaining but I'm not sure he fits to TV-format, he was on correct place in radio-format and filled entire radio time nicely with his excitement.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Little dig at the tyres again by Mads.

[Got Mail]

Yesterday, when Julian made stage-end interviews, for me it felt (yes, its subjective) that it was more like conversation with "equals" with drivers, more like enjoyable conversation instead of "ok, we need to get something done somehow".

Best option could get Seb Marshall or similar to do that job, but Seb is co-driving now again. Colin Clark is really entertaining but I'm not sure he fits to TV-format, he was on correct place in radio-format and filled entire radio time nicely with his excitement.

Chris Rawes from ERC Radio would be perfect.

[dimviii]

Little dig at the tyres again by Mads.

he is trying to ridicule himself.

[jonkka]

Finnish TV reports that Hyundai claims Neuville's 10sec penalty is due to having had electrical problem.

[RS]

he is trying to ridicule himself.

All the moaning is a shame because he has done a good job developing that car and he can pedal it pretty fast too. Just think the competition was a little stronger this weekend now Mikelssen has got on top of the Fabia a bit and Lukyanuk obviously putting them both in the shade.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Got to feel for Greensmith. He should get a refund off M-Sport for this event.

[Rallyper]

Tanak huge on PS!!!

[EstWRC]

Dunno what to think. I think it would have been pretty easy win for Tänak, I wonder how much he regrets the push on Friday.

[RS]

Got to feel for Greensmith. He should get a refund off M-Sport for this event.

He will still have learnt something. MSport will know why the result wasn’t better. Respectable performance vs. Suninen.

[meh]

Dunno what to think. I think it would have been pretty easy win for Tänak, I wonder how much he regrets the push on Friday.

Of course it's easy to be smart later and say it was a mistake, he didn't keep head cool and went to push. I admitted it was his mistake to get to the field (not complaining about tires in this situation). Situation in the championship was already all or nothing, it turned out to be nothing.

[cali]

Dunno what to think. I think it would have been pretty easy win for Tänak, I wonder how much he regrets the push on Friday.No way, I think it would have been a huge fight with Rovanperä

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

[TypeR]

Did I hear right..? Tänak said 4 rallies left.. mistake or knows smth more?

[EstWRC]

Did I hear right..? Tänak said 4 rallies left.. mistake or knows smth more?

I think he just wants this season to end :D

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Sums up Suninen here. Poor.

[Rallyper]

Teemu...! Having problems now after leaving ruts for a stone.

[Tauri_J]

Did I hear right..? Tänak said 4 rallies left.. mistake or knows smth more?

Japan off

[meh]

No way, I think it would have been a huge fight with Rovanperä

Yes, we actually do not know now how good are Rovanperä and Tänak, because both did not have need to push for the limits most of the rally. We just know that they are clearly better than rest of the field.

[jonkka]

We shall see whether recent flooding in Belgium will affect the rally, which is only a month away.

[meh]

Masterpiece from Tänak from split1 to split2, on that "this is not a stage"

[AnttiL]

This stage would fit Safari better, and the Safari power stage would fit this rally

[dimviii]

Ogier why so angry?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Seems Tanak got the best of the road conditions and made the ruts bigger for the rest.

[monsieur moustache]

So they didn't make sure Breen takes a penalty?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Great job by Breen. Deserves a full-time seat now.

[RS]

Breen slowing for Neuville?

[meh]

So they didn't make sure Breen takes a penalty?

If they'll play those games, it comes after stage.

[Rallyper]

20 secs penalty and "problem" solved.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Rovanperä makes WRC history - awesome win !

[Rallyper]

Congrats to Kalle and Janne to their maiden victory. Also to our finnish mates..

[meh]

Huge job done, well done Rovanperä!

... as Rovanperä kind of lives in Estonia, win still comes to Estonia ;) Congrats to all Fins, long waited win arrived :)

[Rallyper]

Sooo nice to see them on the roof!!

[EstWRC]

Superb from Kalle.

Now the pressure is off

[AnttiL]

Great job Kalle and Jonne!

[cosmin_sb]

Kalle become the youngest wrc rally winner...congratulation !!

[Tom K]

Luky rolled - landed on wheels and going to finish

[Rally Hokkaido]

Congrats, Kalle - outstanding drive, especially SS10. Congrats also to Craig. I hope this leads to more WRC outings for Paul and himself.

[RS]

Luky rolled - landed on wheels and going to finish

i thought he might push on this one lol.

[meh]

Huge job done, well done Rovanperä!

... as Rovanperä kind of lives in Estonia, win still comes to Estonia ;) Congrats to all Fins, long waited win arrived :)

and the hymn is the same as well :D

[seb_sh]

Congrats to Kalle, he had the opportunity and took it! Tanak had this rally to lose... and he did. Ogier played the long game. Evans was a bit absent. Breen did the job again, would like to see his progress with more time in the car.

[dupanton]

We shall see whether recent flooding in Belgium will affect the rally, which is only a month away.

Region of Ypres was not affected. Only stages on Sunday mught be affected, I'm sure they can find something for that if needed.

[meh]

Finally, the really is over, started feeling like prisoner already attached to screens...

[EstWRC]

I’m starting do doubt if Hyundai drivers will get another win this year.

Ypres is the best chance with Neuville.

[dimviii]

Congrats to Kalle,he stayed calm didnt do the mistake and took the well deserved win.
Also congrats to Luky ,an ''aged with no future driver'' that destroyed drivers who searching for a wrc drive.
Very big driver.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6lCJYZWUAEizrH?format=jpg&name=large

[RS]

Oh, he made a mess of that, but still a great drive.

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

I can imagine Harri having tears of proud & joy..

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk

[satnav]

No Hyundai team orders , Breen stays 2nd

[PLuto]

i thought he might push on this one lol.

If you look to the history, he usually made biggest mistakes when he was not pushing...

[paddocknews]

If in doubt flat out! Lukyanuk
https://www.facebook.com/groups/rallirahvas/permalink/1782030385312372/

[denkimi]

I’m starting do doubt if Hyundai drivers will get another win this year.

Ypres is the best chance with Neuville.
I don't know who will be the 3th driver, but Breen also has won ypres before.

But yeah, their track record looks horrible this year. They could have won pretty much every rally based on the speed, but somehow it always goes wrong.

[scn]

Bravo Kalle!

Also, big cheers for Breen and Lukyanuk who, despite the roll in the last stage, managed to finish as the first Rally2 car!

[atsiotras79]

Fastest Rally2 car even with a roll...
I really hope they will be able to do another one this year...
Congratulations to the Russian rockets for the epic performance and congratulations to Kalle and Jonne for the first one of the many to come...

[Thousandlakes]

Congrats to Kalle and Jonne. These is special and big moment for rallyfan like me. Records: Toivonen-Latvala-Rovanperä!

[Eli]

I don't know who will be the 3th driver, but Breen also has won ypres before.

But yeah, their track record looks horrible this year. They could have won pretty much every rally based on the speed, but somehow it always goes wrong.

Yes but that was with an Polo R5 and he didn't have the competition he will have this time round. Anyhow, hope he can repeat the feat and finish on the podium or at the very least be in the mix at the front. Also something to look forward to, some night stages.
As for Hyundai, they still have a mountain to climb, Toyota are just way more consistent and apart from Arctic, they have dominated this championship winning every other rally. Congrats to Kalle, knew I should've picked him for the pickems!

[cali]

I really-really would like to see Luky in a WRC car. That would be fun

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[Andre Oliveira]

Yes, WRC car

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/news-archive/wrc/test-crash-sidelines-lukyanuk-in-finland/

Love that guy.

[Rallyper]

I really-really would like to see Luky in a WRC car. That would be fun

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

But maybe expensive?

[Tauri_J]

I really-really would like to see Luky in a WRC car. That would be fun

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

Had his chance. I really hope he gets another one where he actually starts an event.

[cali]

Had his chance. I really hope he gets another one where he actually starts an event.He should get another one definitely

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[cali]

But maybe expensive?Who cares. Hopefully he could have the funds to do it

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[Ucci]

Kalle become the youngest wrc rally winner...congratulation !!

We all know this day will come. This weekend he completely overshadowed the competition. Huge congrats!
Remembers me of a young Mike Tyson, who become (even few months younger than Kalle) the youngest heavyweight champion in history.

[Rallyper]

Who cares. Hopefully he could have the funds to do it

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

Expensive for those who are funding, I meant. But for the clearance, me too want him in a WRC car.

[Tauri_J]

Expensive for those who are funding, I meant. But for the clearance, me too want him in a WRC car.

Never say never, estonians might do a GoFundMe lol. Everyone here really likes him like our own drivers.

[cali]

Never say never, estonians might do a GoFundMe lol. Everyone here really likes him like our own drivers.And that's not a bad idea at all! Indeed he is very much liked here. The journey from Opel Kadett to present day has been impressive.

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[Integrale]

That's a bit too much. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210718/16fb7db2ae0ff58b27658864fa7b48b5.jpg

[dimviii]

Lukys answer lol

https://twitter.com/AlexeyLukyanuk/status/1416742614313934854


eWRC-results
@eWRCresults
·
1h
Fedorov shows some details of Škoda Rolling on the floor laughing Hope the Porky Pig nose is ok.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6lVHVUWQAMxmjo?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6lVHVVXsAY0Izw?format=jpg&name=large

[denkimi]

That's a bit too much. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210718/16fb7db2ae0ff58b27658864fa7b48b5.jpg

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G781B met Tapatalk
I'm not sure who measured the speed, but here in belgium he would have lost his drivers license. The police would come and pick it up in the service parc.

[Integrale]

You know what, it's actually a disgrace. And that's coming from a Neuville supporter.

[meh]

No position change in top 10 since SS10 to the end (SS24), no position changes in top5 since SS8. It's quite unbelievable that no one did not have any dramas, punctures and/or technical issues during 2 full days which could cause position change damage. All dramas were done in Friday.

https://www.ewrc-results.com/eventstats/68114-rally-estonia-2021/

[meh]

I'm not sure who measured the speed, but here in belgium he would have lost his drivers license. The police would come and pick it up in the service parc.

I think the punishment depends, how it was measured. If it was measured by rally control center by GPS, then it will be handled only by rally context. If it could be measured by police on public road, then "usual person" may end up in prison for some "think about it" day(s) and bye-bye for driving licence for long time. You also may have to re-do your driving licence exams. In short, FYI, don't mess with Estonian police :)

edit: like posted by NoFear85 below, speed was tracked by FIA security tracking system.

... and I guess this is the max speed of this Hyundai

[dimviii]

https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2021/photos/rally-estonia_2021/hfr_dsc_3033.jpg

[NoFear85]

Stewart decision nr.13

https://storage.googleapis.com/download/storage/v1/b/sportity-storage/o/c7ff5a09-90f3-4b1d-ab77-5a3e619a24a5%2Face5d2d8-883d-4b8d-9696-a5cc513baaae_Stewards%20Decision%2013.pdf?generati on=1626623708297950&alt=media

[AndyRAC]

I'm not sure who measured the speed, but here in Belgium he would have lost his drivers license. The police would come and pick it up in the service parc.

190kph in a 90kph is not a slight indiscretion; it's a massive breach. So much for the FiA Road Safety campaign.....it's all a bit toothless. One wonders if a Junior driver did similar, what the sanction would be.

[Franky]

Never really paid too much attention to these speeding fines because for a WRC crew the fine barely makes a dent.

Went through the sporting regulations and regarding fines:

34.3.4Penalties for infringements during the competition element of the rally:

a) First infringement: –Speeding: A fine of €25 per km/h over the speed limit, applied by the Clerk of the Course;–Other than speeding: A penalty will be applied by the Stewards.

b) Second infringement: –Speeding: A fine of €50 per km/h over the speed limit, applied by the Clerk of the Course;–Other than speeding: A penalty will be applied by the Stewards.

c) Third infringement: A 5-minute time penalty applied by the Clerk of the Course.

d) Fourth infringement: Disqualification applied only by the Stewards

And in the Stewards Decision No. 13, under Decision point 2, they say suspension for one event happens if "commits any speeding offence exceeding 30% or more of the applicable speed limit." So I presume the moment the Clerk of the Course starts looking at speeding is when it exceeds 30% the speed limit. In a 90 km/h zone it means exceeding the speed limit by at least 27 km/h.


If my presumption about exceeding speed limit by minimum 30% is the moment they start writing fines, then ... How the hell can they preach about road safety?!

I can understand tyre and brake warming, but absurd speeding regardless the reason behind it not. And €25 per km/h for a works crew/team... A slap would be more effective. In Crotia Ogier got 2000 Euros for ignoring a red light. So one red light equals speeding 80kmh over the limit.


If someone knows more about the practices of speeding fines, could you please share more how it actually goes?

[Portimao]

No position change in top 10 since SS10 to the end (SS24), no position changes in top5 since SS8. It's quite unbelievable that no one did not have any dramas, punctures and/or technical issues during 2 full days which could cause position change damage. All dramas were done in Friday.

https://www.ewrc-results.com/eventstats/68114-rally-estonia-2021/

2137

Yep, it wasn't quite exciting rally to be honest.

[AnttiL]

Very similar to Finland 2018, everything happened on Friday morning, after that the top 6 changed only through team orders.

[mknight]

For me the biggest disappointment was actually Evans. Beforehand I was expecting him to be clearly ahead of Ogier and Neuville and fight with Breen. In the end he was somewhat invisible the whole rally.
Maybe there is some truth in J. Porters speculation that Evans struggles with setup for soft gravel Pirellis as basically the whole rally was on them.

Suninen had terrible rally, but that wasn't entirely unexpected and he also had issues that weren't his fault. But even when car was working fine he was never clearly faster than Greensmith.

Rovanpera delivered, just like Breen (except almost ripping off a wheel on Saturday evening). Both have the same "problem" atm though. Only good results from fast gravel/snow rallies. Rovanpera has plenty of other rallies to do well on in the future, Breen is much more unsure.

Tanak's weekend totally reminded me of Meeke. Starts by jumping half car off the road on first run of shakedown. Gets puncture after off on SS3 (check onboard), then tops it by driving completely off on next stage.

[SubaruNorway]

Very similar to Finland 2018, everything happened on Friday morning, after that the top 6 changed only through team orders.

But then we had the exiting fight between Mads and Jari for 2nd

[PGrally]

Rally Estonia 2021 WRC, Jumps, Beautiful Sideways
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVqErAXHXAw

[dimviii]

Today with some technical issues brought a lot of stress in the car, twice the car wouldn’t start, and we were late to the TC two stages before the finish. At the end our gap was only down to 10s. We knew if there was a strategy to play we had to be with more than 10s ahead of Sébastien so the Power Stage was very crucial for us as well.

Q:
Was that lateness to the time control due to the starter motor?
TN:
Yes.

What about the next event in your home country, the Ypres Rally in Belgium, an iconic event… are you feeling alright by the way, have you got a bit of hay fever or something?
TN:
No, I don’t know. I’m struggling with a lot of pain in my right eye since this morning. It’s getting a little bit better. Martijn [Wydaeghe] was driving on the road sections because I couldn’t see anything. I didn’t feel well all day but in the end the job is done.

https://www.fia.com/news/wrc-k-rovanpera-we-have-done-lot-work-be-position

[tommeke_B]

I’m struggling with a lot of pain in my right eye since this morning. It’s getting a little bit better. Martijn [Wydaeghe] was driving on the road sections because I couldn’t see anything. I didn’t feel well all day but in the end the job is done.


Can't see enough to drive the road sections but can see enough for setting 4 fastest stage-times? Sounds strange to me.

[Eli]

But then we had the exiting fight between Mads and Jari for 2nd

Which is why I said earlier and not for the first time, we need another manufacturer so another 3 drivers can challenge for top honours and make it more tense. 3 manufacturers is simply not enough, especially when one of them have 2 drivers(ish).

[mknight]

In Estonia with everyone pushing it was down to two manus and "also participated".

Speed is one thing, but the repeated water pump failures are something else.

Quite a change from the grand announcements at Gooodwood just before.

[dimviii]

Erik Veiby about Neuvilles speeding

Erik Veiby
@VeibyErik

For us it would probably been 20 years in prison..@OfficialWRC
@OCVeiby
#nothavingcaruanteenrightplace

[Eli]

In Estonia with everyone pushing it was down to two manus and "also participated".

Speed is one thing, but the repeated water pump failures are something else.

Quite a change from the grand announcements at Gooodwood just before.

Well yes I tried sugar coating it, but like you said, they need to get their cars sorted (& drivers) for next year, what they have now just doesn't make the cut.

[cali]

Erik Veiby about Neuvilles speeding

Erik Veiby
@VeibyErik

For us it would probably been 20 years in prison..@OfficialWRC
@OCVeiby
#nothavingcaruanteenrightplaceIn any normal case in here it would have been excursion to jail. I guess they made huge exception to Thierry.

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[mknight]

Petter Solberg lost drivers license in Sweden (2010 or so) for much lower speed difference and Patterson had to drive the last Powerstage due to that.

Imo FIA is way too tolerant of this. There are many blatant examples last few years. Ogier in Poland 2017 with 190 on LiveMaps (he also took a roundabout the wrong way on purpose and only got a fine), Hanninen Finland 2017+++

"I got technical problem and have to catch up..."
Technical problem is part of the rally, if driving at legal speeds would result in penalty and they make it up by speeding they should give them the same penalty anyway. With the tracker it should be simple check.

[AnttiL]

When Solberg lost the license, they were caught by police? FIA probably cannot take your license and police can't use only FIA's tracker as evidence?

I agree that this is a problem and in situations like this time penalties should be applied so you couldn't gain time by not getting road penalties by speeding.

[mknight]

When Solberg lost the license, they were caught by police? FIA probably cannot take your license and police can't use only FIA's tracker as evidence?


Police yes. He got 24 hours to keep the license and the time was up before PS.

Police can't use tracker as evidence. But in terms of timepenalties afaik FIA can do essentially what they want. As confirmed by all kinds of stewards/coc decisions.

[TypeR]

at least he didn't say couple of fk and sht words about tyres..


continued to race between people and police also..

https://www.facebook.com/100001907011735/videos/886916265236661/

https://www.facebook.com/706495471/videos/235060955106696/

[bomber21]

OK, let’s not exaggerate. Last vids do not show anything bad or uncommon.

[mknight]

First one sounds a bit like stagemode?

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

Petter Solberg lost drivers license in Sweden (2010 or so) for much lower speed difference and Patterson had to drive the last Powerstage due to that.

Imo FIA is way too tolerant of this. There are many blatant examples last few years. Ogier in Poland 2017 with 190 on LiveMaps (he also took a roundabout the wrong way on purpose and only got a fine), Hanninen Finland 2017+++

"I got technical problem and have to catch up..."
Technical problem is part of the rally, if driving at legal speeds would result in penalty and they make it up by speeding they should give them the same penalty anyway. With the tracker it should be simple check.Sweden 2011, to be precise..

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[skarderud]

at least he didn't say couple of fk and sht words about tyres..


continued to race between people and police also..

https://www.facebook.com/100001907011735/videos/886916265236661/

https://www.facebook.com/706495471/videos/235060955106696/If this videos show him driving to start of the stage, then FIA have to disqualify him for rest of the year. This is insane!
To much cars and people to be at stage.

F..king hell, FIA have to do something!
A fine is to piss on everything and everyone in this sport!

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[rpzcs]

Just a bit of perspective:

In Estonia it's pretty common to arrest speeding foreigners and send them out of the country after the serving with an entry ban. But since it was FIA, not local police, Thierry got lucky:
One example of a russia who was doing 161 in 90 kmph zone
https://news.err.ee/851805/russian-citizen-caught-speeding-in-estonia-expelled-from-country

[cali]

I see now 2 kind of reactions: from Greece (south) it's nothing and from Norway (north) you have to ban him almost forever :D It couldn't be more apart as you can see.

I'm personally OK what FIA decided and just let it go.

[bomber21]

I see now 2 kind of reactions: from Greece (south) it's nothing and from Norway (north) you have to ban him almost forever :D It couldn't be more apart as you can .
:D

[drive]

Neuville changes wheels and adjusting suspension after ss14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1PPEQfFqsA

[bisak]

`people who say speeding by one of the best drivers in the entire world is dangerous should try and become men, being a crying woman is ok, but being a man is better.` (https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?41494-WRC-Rally-Acropolis-Greece-2021&p=1275955&viewfull=1#post1275955)

[dimviii]

Luky trolling
https://twitter.com/RallyingUK/status/1417002009283104768



https://worldrally.se/assets/uploads/2021/07/Lukyanuk-artikel-1100x733.jpg

[dimviii]

“When the grip is quite constant, we can manage quite well, but we do struggle with some issues on the new car where I have to be honest and say that I probably have done some mistakes on the development of the car and I can feel that now,” he said.

“I could feel it already in Portugal to be honest, so I think we just have to try to understand and probably turn our heads around to sort this as quickly as possible.”

Asked what area of the car was troubling him, Østberg said: “On the differential side, so I struggle a lot when the grip is changing.

“I try to drive as fast as I can all the time, and to me I’m driving to the limit of the car all the time, and when we have grip we are faster than anyone, and on other stages when it’s changing around, for sure we are losing a lot of time. Much more than normal. And it feels the same to me.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/ostberg-fears-development-error-on-citroen-after-issues/

[mknight]

I almost got lost in the article.

So:
- the car difs are badly developed
- the brake pipes get ruptured all the time
- the calipers? cause the brakes to suddenly stop working

On top of that he said he had intercom issues and broken front suspension on SS5.

I mean it surely is possible he had all those issues. But one has to wonder why he has a ton of issues on basically every WRC rally he does.

Here in Estonia the puncture on SS6 was from mowing down a concrete anti-cut (3:52 onboard), the second one on SS15 I am not sure, there are some hard hits between 4 and 4:20, but maybe I missed something.