[WRC] Rallye Monte Carlo 2021

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Classic Monte in one stage. Great.

[Mirek]

Camilli in Galli's style :D

[Essaj]

Camilli with Galli aproach

[Mirek]

Mikkelsen spun into the snowbank, lucky not to get stuck!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Excellent drive here by Fourmaux, showing again he's a fine prospect. Cant wait to see him in the M-Sport WRC car.

[Lead]

Mikkelsen was going for the push in PS.

EDIT: And still wins it with a spin :eek:

[mknight]

Mikkelsen was going for the push


He said he will try to dominate, he came and he dominated.

[Rally Hokkaido]

Mikkelsen drove into the snow bank on purpose because brakes were locking on the surface. He only lost a couple of seconds with a half-spin when he bounced back out of the bank.

[Essaj]

Porter really pisses me off, and now that we got taste of Mads in the commentary. It's like night and day.

[meh]

May we see RC2 car to take WRC powerstage points (finish in top5)?

[Mirek]

Rossel with RR puncture.

[Milujeme Rally]

2033

[Rallyper]

Rossel with RR puncture.

Let´s hope he got a spare then... ;)

[TypeR]

Loubet must have been quite stuck.. +1.54 to Mikkelsen split 1

[EstWRC]

another puncture

[Essaj]

Loubet quite lucky that spectators were allowed after all /s

[mknight]

May we see RC2 car to take WRC powerstage points (finish in top5)?

Possible for Gryazin and Solberg starting later.

[bisak]

Loubet quite lucky that spectators were allowed after all /s

I really hope they don't find them and put them in jail or fine them over the plandemic :confused:

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Not seeing the WRC cars on the snowy section again. Pity.

[mknight]

Half of them looked like team members (weather crew).

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Honest from Greensmith, no excuses or BS. He can and must do better.

[dimviii]

WRCWings
@llluis555
·
3h
Top speeds yesterday at the last kms of SS10 (on snow and ice!) #RallyeMonteCarlo
178 km/h Neuville
176 km/h Rovanperä
173 km/h Bulacia
172 km/h Ogier
170 km/h Evans, Katsuta
168 km/h Sordo, Loubet
163 km/h Mikkelsen
161 km/h Greensmith

[Ucci]

Huge differences....

[meh]

Porter is still talking about tire-gamble. Sordo is just cruising through.

[AnttiL]

Honest from Greensmith, no excuses or BS. He can and must do better.

They can transmit only the end section of the stage

[EstWRC]

Kalle will be serious title contender this year, at least makeing a huge headache for the main contenders

wanted to write this in chrystal ball thread too and now i think i should have

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Neuville slower in the end !

[T16]

Kalle will be serious title contender this year, at least makeing a huge headache for the main contenders

wanted to write this in chrystal ball thread too and now i think i should have


You're not exactly being crystal clear though. Serious contender or just causing headaches? two different things.

I'd say headaches.

[EstWRC]

You're not exactly being crystal clear though. Serious contender or just causing headaches? two different things.

I'd say headaches.

definitely headaches but i wouldnt be surprised if serious contender

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Very good job considering the late co-driver change though.

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsfqSYvU0AEIf1F?format=jpg&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsfvcxFVoAEiUiV?format=jpg&name=small

[T16]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsfqSYvU0AEIf1F?format=jpg&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsfvcxFVoAEiUiV?format=jpg&name=small

NO???

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Solid all rally by Evans. All he could do but never pushed Ogier.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier The Monte Maestro. Awesome again.

[Mirek]

Ogier takes no prisoners.

[Lead]

Ogier the Monte king :champion:

[TypeR]

if the season goes like that, Ogier won't retire after this season :D He is Monte King!

[mknight]

Solberg stopped.

[Mirek]

Where is Solberg?

[dimviii]

Bravo Ogier Ingrassia,just destroyed everybody,they were a class above this weekend!

Ogier : 25 + 5 = 30

Evans : 18 + 3 = 21

Neuville : 15 + 2 = 17

Rovanperä : 12 + 4 = 16



Toyota : 25 + 18 + 5 + 4 = 52

Huyndai : 15 + 12 + 3 + 2 = 32

[meh]

May we see RC2 car to take WRC powerstage points (finish in top5)?

Grazin missed it with 0.8sec and Solberg probably overcooked it (stopped).

[mknight]

On map Solberg is stopped around the end of the full snow section.

[Ucci]

if the season goes like that, Ogier won't retire after this season :D He is Monte King!
Simply the best.

[Rallyper]

But Solberg isn´t even on the startlist for the stage on Splits...??

Edit: See him on map 1/3 into stage.

[dimviii]

Latvala finally won Monte

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsfxC1-WMAIoM3k?format=jpg&name=medium

[Rallyper]

Well. Ogier is the King. At least for now. Big congrats to him and Ingrassia. Now, let´s head to Arctic Rally Finland...

[Milujeme Rally]

yes, I wish him very much :rotflmao:

[mknight]

With manu PS points the differences get kind of big 52 - 30.

[pantealex]

Bravo Ogier Ingrassia,just destroyed everybody,they were a class above this weekend!

Ogier : 25 + 5 = 30

Evans : 18 + 3 = 21

Neuville : 15 + 2 = 17

Rovanperä : 12 + 4 = 16



Toyota : 25 + 18 + 5 + 4 = 52

Huyndai : 15 + 12 + 3 + 2 = 32

Toyota: 25 + 18 + 5 + 4 = 52

Hyundai: 15 + 12 + 2 +1 = 30

[Tom K]

That means they do not skip third car for Power Stage points. Evans did not score those 3 but Hyundai couldn't take them.

[doubled1978]

Well. Ogier is the King. At least for now. Big congrats to him and Ingrassia. Now, let´s head to Arctic Rally Finland...

Top drive from Ogier that, real class. In that form, very difficult to beat for anyone.
I’m really looking forward to the Arctic Rally Finland, as hopefully we will see a winter rally as we expect to.

[Rallyper]

Solberg got stuck in a snowbank. No spectators to help. Car is ok. (From Twitter)

Guess he learnt a lot this weekend.

[doubled1978]

Shout out to Grayzin for his performance today, very impressive.

[Rally Hokkaido]

Solberg got stuck in a snowbank. No spectators to help. Car is ok. (From Twitter)

Guess he learnt a lot this weekend.

Yes, and decision not to nominate for WRC2 points was the correct one!

[AnttiL]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsgGY7LXUAEAHaa?format=jpg&name=large

If Tänak runs on three wheels again this season, they have to sit out one rally. Also warning for any other crews planning to do the same...

[mknight]

If Tänak runs on three wheels again this season, they have to sit out one rally. Also warning for any other crews planning to do the same...

Good idea imo. Trying to get to service with punctured tire is very much trying going against the spirit of the rules.

I mean sure they can try if the tire is somewhat ok, but the moment it's rim only it should be stop at road side.

[rallyfiend]

Good idea imo. Trying to get to service with punctured tire is very much trying going against the spirit of the rules.

I mean sure they can try if the tire is somewhat ok, but the moment it's rim only it should be stop at road side.

Not the spirit, the 'actual' rules.....

[mknight]

Solberg got stuck in a snowbank. No spectators to help. Car is ok. (From Twitter)

Guess he learnt a lot this weekend.


Yes, and decision not to nominate for WRC2 points was the correct one!

Yes, he did ok/good. Especially compared to last year.

Looking only at Monza results it might look like a disappointment but on Monza non-circuit stages nobody had any experience, here others had lots + new car.

Still not liking the "pressure/hype" some people and sometimes seemingly also him is putting on himself. Imo it leads to "overpush" which seemed to be the case on at least 3 stages this weekend.

[T16]

Good idea imo. Trying to get to service with punctured tire is very much trying going against the spirit of the rules.

I mean sure they can try if the tire is somewhat ok, but the moment it's rim only it should be stop at road side.

Like I said earlier.... why can’t they use a wheel and tyre from a teammate? Road section only.
Same for all teams. Rally with more competitors in.

[AnttiL]

Still not liking the "pressure/hype" some people and sometimes seemingly also him is putting on himself. Imo it leads to "overpush" which seemed to be the case on at least 3 stages this weekend.
I think you're reading into the hype affecting him. Just finding the limits of himself and the new car.

[AnttiL]

Like I said earlier.... why can’t they use a wheel and tyre from a teammate? Road section only.
Same for all teams. Rally with more competitors in.

It's complicated...first of all the team drivers should wait for each other and while doing so possibly get late from their next TC. Probably a technical delegate should be watching that they share only tyres and nothing else?

I don't like this idea.

Double punctures aren't so common that this will be a problem (hopefully Pirellis won't make this a more common issue...)

[Rallyper]

Yes, he did ok/good. Especially compared to last year.

Looking only at Monza results it might look like a disappointment but on Monza non-circuit stages nobody had any experience, here others had lots + new car.

Still not liking the "pressure/hype" some people and sometimes seemingly also him is putting on himself. Imo it leads to "overpush" which seemed to be the case on at least 3 stages this weekend.

Now I´m guessing: In the PS they let him go flat out. No limitation at all. Just let him get the feeling of trying hard. This time ended stuck in a snowbank. With spectators on site this maybe only would´ve gor 10-30 secs loss. So still learnt a lot even on PS.

Don´t think people setting more pressure on him than on Kalle a couple of years ago.

[Mirek]

Like I said earlier.... why can’t they use a wheel and tyre from a teammate? Road section only.
Same for all teams. Rally with more competitors in.

Because far majority of entrants are singe car teams. That would create uneven conditions.

[petttu]

Like I said earlier.... why can’t they use a wheel and tyre from a teammate? Road section only.
Same for all teams. Rally with more competitors in.
I think there is at least 2 rules, 1 rule is that crews cannot not receive any parts from any one when they are out of service (to stop teams to apply spare parts and tires between services), and the other rule is that crew must return to service with as many tires as they leaved (one cannot just dump the wheels to save weight). And I think that crew has dedicated tires so one cannot mix between other crews tires (Im not sure is it so strick with rally, but example in F1 there are). (probably to stop team having a "spare" car witch would only drive saving tires/parts, and the giving those "new" tires to the top crew for the next stage).

[Sulland]

In my opinion this decicion is a complete overkill by FIA.

If a rallydriver punctures on a SS he/she can continue to the finish as fast as possible. Almost all makes it without going off the road, in almost full speed. This with the possibility of hurting the public there to watch the rally.

If the same crew have punctured the spare wheel before, they are out of the rally.
They are not allowed to limp back to the depot, since then in much smaller speeds, it is seen as unsafe.

This is not logical for the best drivers in the world.
How can this be fixed, so we dont loose drivers in a rally on a technicallity?

[T16]

I get all the above objections, but I just can't see past Tanak being able to stay in the event.

So what if privateers can't do it, right now the championship is desperate for as many works drivers as possible.

If they are heading back to service, is time really THAT tight so a team mate couldn't wait a few minutes for the driver?

It's OK saying it's not in the rules, but can't see how it could disadvantage the championship in any way whatsoever if they changed the rules to allow.

[mknight]

Don´t think people setting more pressure on him than on Kalle a couple of years ago.

Yes about same "hype". It also got Kalle at one point IMO, when all he had to do was to collect the "obvious" WRC2 title and started off by crashing in first 3? rallies. He got back after, but things like that are not guaranteed.

[jparker]

It's OK saying it's not in the rules, but can't see how it could disadvantage the championship in any way whatsoever if they changed the rules to allow.

Probably because lead drivers will stop taking second spare all the time, and that will make new mess to deal with.


Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

[mknight]

In my opinion this decicion is a complete overkill by FIA.

If a rallydriver punctures on a SS he/she can continue to the finish as fast as possible. Almost all makes it without going off the road, in almost full speed. This with the possibility of hurting the public there to watch the rally.

If the same crew have punctured the spare wheel before, they are out of the rally.
They are not allowed to limp back to the depot, since then in much smaller speeds, it is seen as unsafe.

This is not logical for the best drivers in the world.
How can this be fixed, so we dont loose drivers in a rally on a technicallity?

"Best drivers in the world" are not magicians. If a driver drives on one rim and there is some emergency...say schoolbus coming out of control and crossing to opposite side of the road will they be able to react as fast as a normal car with 4 tires? I doubt that.

What I don't doubt is how it would look for the broad public if a rally car on 3 tires is in any way involved in something like that.

[Mirek]

"Best drivers in the world" are not magicians. If a driver drives on one rim and there is some emergency...say schoolbus coming out of control and crossing to opposite side of the road will they be able to react as fast as a normal car with 4 tires? I doubt that.

What I don't doubt is how it would look for the broad public if a rally car on 3 tires is in any way involved in something like that.

The main issue is that driving on three wheels is simply illegal per traffic rules. The rally is not more than the law.

[TanaKa]

Hello all of you.....and with the permission of their lords

I want to present my dedication to this Great Monte Carlo Rally,,translated ,, I speak Spanish,,there I go

ccording to what we are experiencing ,, I think it is from law leave it positioned.
I want to highlight the Wonderful Views of this Rally, from the Onboard and Helicopter .. Without words ..y Doubt ,, even though I'm from Flor de Zidane ...
Lo De Evans, well, I have to believe that he is a Real Level 100 Pilot.
The Rovanpera thing has left me once and for all looking at Pamplona ..
And what about Katmasuta, well, I'm not going to say the same, but there is the Nipon peaso ...
MI Tanak ,, is missing the Flower of Zidane ,, Neuville ,, It is neither Cocoon ,, Dani ,, is a followers with Alma and Loubet ,,,, this for Wrc2 still despite France ,, the replacement would be Breen ,, more scoring ..
M Sport ,, Suninem It is not 1st of the team and perhaps not 2nd ,, the Greensmith ,, It has no Valuation ,, perhaps Formaux if it is above Both ,,, M Sport must think that Money is not enough to have Prestige At the level of Escuderia ,, Not Vale Todo ..
Tok-Sport ,, I think Mikelssen is a 1st Class WRC Driver ,, his partner is at most very well there with the Pastora ... On.
My dear Oliver has been Luxury ,, Camilli ,, also ,, Ciamin and Rossel ,, and the American Also to quote him ,, Because no..Ohh ,,, the Russian ,, I forgot ,, good rally has Pegao yes Sir....
In short, this first Grand Rally I think I will not forget for everything present and for everything about El Planna, for the current moments that we have to live, Luck of Zidane to All ...

[dimviii]

(probably to stop team having a "spare" car witch would only drive saving tires/parts, and the giving those "new" tires to the top crew for the next stage).
very weel said.
It can open a whole new subject with fake flat tyres/punctures,that can choose before stage the right tyre/new tyre from another car. So he can take brand new 4 tyres just before stage at gravel rallies,or the 4 right tyres at Monte lets say.

[T16]

very weel said.
It can open a whole new subject with fake flat tyres/punctures,that can choose before stage the right tyre/new tyre from another car. So he can take brand new 4 tyres just before stage at gravel rallies,or the 4 right tyres at Monte lets say.

No, as I said, the ‘new’ rule would allow swapping of tyres for road section to service only (NOT FOR STAGES) therefore no competitive advantage gained.

[Mirek]

No, as I said, the ‘new’ rule would allow swapping of tyres for road section to service only (NOT FOR STAGES) therefore no competitive advantage gained.

It is competitive advantage because single-car teams could not do that. Those are the majority of competitors.

[Carbon]

The main issue is that driving on three wheels is simply illegal per traffic rules. The rally is not more than the law.

Driving with rally car on the public road is also illegal, allowed only when the rally is on or with special permission. Why the hell you cant drive on 4 wheels? Aswell, driving on 3 tyres on F1 200km/h is okay, no-one cant get hurt for sure. FIA must be taken over, amateurs or bribed.

[AnttiL]

No, as I said, the ‘new’ rule would allow swapping of tyres for road section to service only (NOT FOR STAGES) therefore no competitive advantage gained.

I'm asking again, can you name the cases when a double puncture occurred at the last stage of a leg, resulting in a retirement? I don't remember any. Seems like a very corner case.

[Mirek]

Driving with rally car on the public road is also illegal...

You answered yourself. It is not illegal under given conditions. Driving on three wheels is not one of them.

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Esgw0hEXcAEfTzV?format=jpg&name=large

[doubled1978]

It is competitive advantage because single-car teams could not do that. Those are the majority of competitors.

This is why I suggested 1 van from the organisation that can carry 1 wheel/tyre for each crew. End of Last stage of loop only, and only available to each competitor once per rally and the tyre can only be used to drive the road section.Each competitor contributes a few € to the service of the van being available.
Let’s be honest, the situation is not happening all the time, so it is just a safety net to stop guys having to retire in a weird situation like happened with Tanak on this occasion. I’m not trying to fundamentally change rallying, but as regulations for driving on the road of have become more strict over the years, surely it’s not wrong to adjust the rules a little bit to help in this regard.
I think we can all agree we don’t want cars retired, we want them competing.
I’m not for one minute suggesting we should be allowing cars to be fixed that are smashed up, like Makinen in GB or similar...just if they don’t have 4 safe tyres available to drive the road section back to service.

[doubled1978]

I'm asking again, can you name the cases when a double puncture occurred at the last stage of a leg, resulting in a retirement? I don't remember any. Seems like a very corner case.

Maybe not, but surely it’s happened lower in the field more than we realise but it’s not spoken about.
I thought about the Mikkelsen Australia issue, but you pointed out there was also super special to run after.
However, I am sure lots of cars have been driven back to service on tyres that while technically still intact, are not really roadworthy, and this could also be ‘public safety’ solution given the competitors are interacting with the public traffic.

[EstWRC]

Ogier - officially now the Master or King of Monaco, and what a way to show it with the performance like this. There is no other driver in the series at the moment who is mastering those changeable and hard conditions like he does, showed it also in Monza a month ago, he is a step above other with this.

Evans - solid and good second place with good pace. Minded his own business basically the whole rally which was right thing to do.

Neuville - second most impressive performance this week for me. To come Monte with a new co-driver and bring home third place and a couple of stage wins, especially on the stages which maybe were the most tricky ones, impressive.

Rovanperä - also very good performance IMO, had some troubles but good pace and VERY good pace on some of the stages, like power stage for example.

Sordo - so and so, but it isnt his favourite event so i think did well.

Greensmith, Katsuta, Loubet - couple of good stage times from Loubet, also some splits from Katsuta were good i remember on some of the stages but they all are still learning and have a lot to learn.

Tänak - started off very well, Friday was also quite good but also weird, weird in the sense that he was fastest or one of the fastest on every stage until mid stage and then dropped massively time compared to others on the second half of the stages. Silly mistake again on the recce this year and very silly mistake/decision with the one spare only.

[Mirek]

This is why I suggested 1 van from the organisation that can carry 1 wheel/tyre for each crew. End of Last stage of loop only, and only available to each competitor once per rally and the tyre can only be used to drive the road section.Each competitor contributes a few € to the service of the van being available.
Let’s be honest, the situation is not happening all the time, so it is just a safety net to stop guys having to retire in a weird situation like happened with Tanak on this occasion. I’m not trying to fundamentally change rallying, but as regulations for driving on the road of have become more strict over the years, surely it’s not wrong to adjust the rules a little bit to help in this regard.
I think we can all agree we don’t want cars retired, we want them competing.
I’m not for one minute suggesting we should be allowing cars to be fixed that are smashed up, like Makinen in GB or similar...just if they don’t have 4 safe tyres available to drive the road section back to service.

That is probably the only viable option if there is a will to change that rule, however I personally disagree with that. Call me a bigoted traditionalist but IMHO rallying shall stay as much as possible as it was in the past because the legacy of the oldest motorsport is what makes it different from other disciplines. I don't want to turn in into a sort of hillclimb with multiple stages.

[AnttiL]

Maybe not, but surely it’s happened lower in the field more than we realise but it’s not spoken about.
I thought about the Mikkelsen Australia issue, but you pointed out there was also super special to run after.
However, I am sure lots of cars have been driven back to service on tyres that while technically still intact, are not really roadworthy, and this could also be ‘public safety’ solution given the competitors are interacting with the public traffic.

Yes, at least in Finland the tyre must have enough tread in millimetres. Sometimes rally drivers wear out all the tread on a stage.

[doubled1978]

That is probably the only viable option if there is a will to change that rule, however I personally disagree with that. Call me a bigoted traditionalist but IMHO rallying shall stay as much as possible as it was in the past because the legacy of the oldest motorsport is what makes it different from other disciplines. I don't want to turn in into a sort of hillclimb with multiple stages.

I can understand your point of view, and I agree it’s a fine line treading between the traditions of rallying against modernisation.
I am more towards helping the competitors stay in the event within reason, as a spectator I want to see as many cars as possible to improve my experience.

[tommeke_B]

Outtake from an interview with Neuville in a Belgian newspaper (La Dernière Heure), concerning his new codriver.

How did the collaboration with Martijn work out?
- "Very well. Martijn had a lot to learn, but he progressed very well. The confidence grew during the stages and the days. On the last two stages together we have lost only 12 seconds. There's still some margin, but we're working. We already know in which domains we need to work: rhythm, intonation and organisation. I'm going to help him on these things in the upcoming weeks. After that we have two test days before the Arctic.

Which are his main qualities?
- "I would say he is very calm, never thrown off balance and very motivated."

So the test is succesful? Are you going to continue with him?
- "I'm actually convinced we're going to do a lot of rallies together this year, and in the rest of my career. At least that is the plan."

[Mirek]

I can understand your point of view, and I agree it’s a fine line treading between the traditions of rallying against modernisation.
I am more towards helping the competitors stay in the event within reason, as a spectator I want to see as many cars as possible to improve my experience.

Sometimes what helps the competitors to stay in the event is the knowledge that they have to stay in the event. IMHO if you discard superally you won't have less works cars competing on the last day (after some painful transition period). They will simply addapt. By that I also mean that giving the crews an option to fix double punctures behind the finish will only lead to them having more punctures in the stages.

[TypeR]

Sometimes what helps the competitors to stay in the event is the knowledge that they have to stay in the event. IMHO if you discard superally you wonn't have less works cars competing on the last day (after some painful transition period). They will simply addapt. By that I also mean that giving the crews an option to fix double punctures behind the finish will only lead to them having more punctures in the stages.

Yes ofc, because driving with puncture gives you better stage times..

[Sulland]

Driving with rally car on the public road is also illegal, allowed only when the rally is on or with special permission. Why the hell you cant drive on 4 wheels? Aswell, driving on 3 tyres on F1 200km/h is okay, no-one cant get hurt for sure. FIA must be taken over, amateurs or bribed.

Not everywhere, has to do with insurance. In Norway you can have both. But if you are to have normal white plates, and not black, the car has to be taxed in completely. If you buy a R5 car, only to use it in competition, you get it in cheaper.

Taditionally people 20-30 years ago people used the car for several puposes.

[doubled1978]

Sometimes what helps the competitors to stay in the event is the knowledge that they have to stay in the event. IMHO if you discard superally you wonn't have less works cars competing on the last day (after some painful transition period). They will simply addapt. By that I also mean that giving the crews an option to fix double punctures behind the finish will only lead to them having more punctures in the stages.

I agree with some of that, but not the bit about them having more punctures in the stages, in modern rallying the results are often decided by very small margins, and a puncture in stage is often the end of a chance to win/podium or whatever, so I think that they will wish to avoid that at all costs.
My personal opinion, is that with these Pirelli tyres, we may (initially) see more punctures than we have been used to recently. Let’s be honest the Michelin’s of recent years have been amazing really given the hammering they got.

[Ucci]

Ogier - officially now the Master or King of Monaco, and what a way to show it with the performance like this. There is no other driver in the series at the moment who is mastering those changeable and hard conditions like he does, showed it also in Monza a month ago, he is a step above other with this.

Evans - solid and good second place with good pace. Minded his own business basically the whole rally which was right thing to do.

Neuville - second most impressive performance this week for me. To come Monte with a new co-driver and bring home third place and a couple of stage wins, especially on the stages which maybe were the most tricky ones, impressive.

Rovanperä - also very good performance IMO, had some troubles but good pace and VERY good pace on some of the stages, like power stage for example.

Sordo - so and so, but it isnt his favourite event so i think did well.

Greensmith, Katsuta, Loubet - couple of good stage times from Loubet, also some splits from Katsuta were good i remember on some of the stages but they all are still learning and have a lot to learn.

Tänak - started off very well, Friday was also quite good but also weird, weird in the sense that he was fastest or one of the fastest on every stage until mid stage and then dropped massively time compared to others on the second half of the stages. Silly mistake again on the recce this year and very silly mistake/decision with the one spare only.

I totally agree.....

[Mirek]

I agree with some of that, but not the bit about them having more punctures in the stages, in modern rallying the results are often decided by very small margins, and a puncture in stage is often the end of a chance to win/podium or whatever, so I think that they will wish to avoid that at all costs.
My personal opinion, is that with these Pirelli tyres, we may (initially) see more punctures than we have been used to recently. Let’s be honest the Michelin’s of recent years have been amazing really given the hammering they got.

You have seen it here. Everybody knew (and it was loudly discussed) that the new Pirelli tyres are more prone to punctures, yet still Tänak decided to gamble and took only one spare risking a retirement if things go wrong - and they did.

That is a sort of the transition pain. People keep having their mind set from the previous period and ignoring clearly visible warning signs. That's something natural to man kind but what applies as well, is that people always addapt quickly.

[doubled1978]

You have seen it here. Everybody knew (and it was loudly discussed) that the new Pirelli tyres are more prone to punctures, yet still Tänak decided to gamble and took only one spare risking a retirement if things go wrong - and they did.

That is a sort of the transition pain. People keep having their mind set from the previous period and ignoring clearly visible warning signs. That's something natural to man kind but what applies as well, is that people always addapt quickly.

I agree it was a bad decision , but for me the time loss in stage was enough of a punishment, not retirement from the whole event.

[SubaruNorway]

Did anyone get a puncture that was not with the winter tire?
That was quite normal for Michelin also though

[dimviii]

Did anyone get a puncture that was not with the winter tire?
That was quite normal for Michelin also though
without have checked,this is my impression too.

[dimviii]

A quick word on rallying in general and Hyundai's performance compared to Toyota?

“The Yaris were clearly faster. We tried everything, but except in a stage where I drove really well, they were always ahead. It was a tough weekend for Hyundai. We were never really in. We are therefore not very happy and we will have to try to understand why during the debriefing with the team. "

https://www.dhnet.be/sports/moteurs/wrc/thierry-neuville-je-suis-convaincu-qu-on-fera-encore-pas-mal-de-rallyes-ensemble-avec-martijn-cette-annee-et-si-possible-pour-la-suite-de-ma-carriere-600d7fb6d8ad5844d1ac4ceb

[Mirek]

A quick word on rallying in general and Hyundai's performance compared to Toyota?

“The Yaris were clearly faster. We tried everything, but except in a stage where I drove really well, they were always ahead. It was a tough weekend for Hyundai. We were never really in. We are therefore not very happy and we will have to try to understand why during the debriefing with the team. "

https://www.dhnet.be/sports/moteurs/wrc/thierry-neuville-je-suis-convaincu-qu-on-fera-encore-pas-mal-de-rallyes-ensemble-avec-martijn-cette-annee-et-si-possible-pour-la-suite-de-ma-carriere-600d7fb6d8ad5844d1ac4ceb

There was a huge difference in the cars even for an eye of the TV spectator and I am sure you saw that too. The Toyotas were like go karts while the Hyundais were very stable and clean but also somewhat clumsy. They almost looked like having 200 kg more.

To be honest Hyundais looked like I expected the current WRC generation to look on asphalt when they were first introduced - strong and powerful but dull. Toyota is something different - for me as a amateur I would not expected a car looking so wild and playful to be faster...

[AnttiL]

Sordo - so and so, but it isnt his favourite event so i think did well.

Greensmith, Katsuta, Loubet - couple of good stage times from Loubet, also some splits from Katsuta were good i remember on some of the stages but they all are still learning and have a lot to learn.

Sordo had a few very good stage times, twice second and twice third. But sometimes he was just off the pace, with no relation to the conditions. Sordo was also told to back off once Tänak retired.

Katsuta was also once fourth and twice fifth, but was often on Greensmith pace level and made a few small mistakes.

[doubled1978]

There was a huge difference in the cars even for an eye of the TV spectator and I am sure you saw that too. The Toyotas were like go karts while the Hyundais were very stable and clean but also somewhat clumsy. They almost looked like having 200 kg more.

To be honest Hyundais looked like I expected the current WRC generation to look on asphalt when they were first introduced - strong and powerful but dull. Toyota is something different - for me as a amateur I would not expected a car looking so wild and playful to be faster...

On this I do agree with you, the Toyota is a very impressive piece of kit.
Difficult to describe, but I can say like this, the others look designed to the regulations, the Toyota looks designed to take advantage of the regulations..

[meh]

We have vegans who need to state everywhere that they are vegans.
We have no Sanders (meme) sitting in every picture.
.. and now we have Mirek who need to write often "but Tänak made wrong tyre choice!" :)

get over it, Tänak rerired, rally is over, life goes on. Breath.

[dimviii]

https://twitter.com/SebastienLoeb/status/1353423903750828032

[Rallyper]

That is probably the only viable option if there is a will to change that rule, however I personally disagree with that. Call me a bigoted traditionalist but IMHO rallying shall stay as much as possible as it was in the past because the legacy of the oldest motorsport is what makes it different from other disciplines. I don't want to turn in into a sort of hillclimb with multiple stages.

Now I should be a traditionalist as well (even though it´s kind of "whatabout..."): In the past every crew of a rallycar had to start from different European cities. You know, Stockholm, London, Oslo und so weite... 2500 K of liasion before reaching Monte Carlo and the real stages... That´s tradition to me.

Since Monte nowadays have nothing of that. A change of rules making competitive drivers go on competing, only helped by a new tyre at the start of final liasion, wouldn´t be that big deviation from todays modern rules.

Else, as a traditionalist way of looking at Monte we should go back to 50´s.

[Rallyper]

Sometimes what helps the competitors to stay in the event is the knowledge that they have to stay in the event. IMHO if you discard superally you won't have less works cars competing on the last day (after some painful transition period). They will simply addapt. By that I also mean that giving the crews an option to fix double punctures behind the finish will only lead to them having more punctures in the stages.

And that´s a speculation.

[Andre Oliveira]

40th PS win to Ogier / Ingrassia

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eshaw6wWMAcstiN?format=jpg&name=medium

[AnttiL]

99% of cases the spare tyre at the last liaison wouldn’t be needed. It would be a huge expense for nothing. And double punctures could still happen in the middle of a loop.

[Eli]

I have to admit this is one of the few Monte's I've seen (since 2008) that a (relatively) small amount of crews (WRC that is) didn't finish the event (yes I know their weren't too many to begin with) but still, well done to them. Also, have to admit I was genuinely impressed by Katsuta being faster than Loubet & Greensmith and actually keeping it on the road and finishing 6th. Evans also did a very good job, keeping it clean, quick, and steady. Hopefully he learned enough this year from Ogier to challenge for the win next year.

Neuville also deserves some credit, yes he won the event last year, but to come here with a new co-driver and finish on the podium, good for him and his co-driver. Sordo also managed a good rally if you consider the fact he hasn't been here since 2018 and I'm guessing he and Carlos had some pressure after Tanak's DNF. If anything, it was Hyundai who made the mistake choosing the wrong tyres for the critical parts of the event.

And to anyone who doubted Ogier last year and said he isn't the king of Monte-Carlo anymore, he proved them all wrong. He took his 50th career win in quite some style and I'm glad he won his last Monte equaling (or breaking actually- 2009's IRC) Sebastien Loeb's record and unlike Loeb, Ogier did it with 5 cars including the: 207S2000, VW Polo R WRC, Ford Fiesta WRC, Citroen C3 WRC & the Toyota Yaris WRC, quite a feat which I don't think anyone will beat.

I'm guessing the next round will be a new (level) playing field for most crews and drivers, one which I cannot wait for, 5 weeks is too long, bring on Arctic Rally Finland!

[AnttiL]

https://www.fia.com/news/wrc-s-ogier-rally-gave-me-dream-be-driver-one-day

Read this, and you don't have to click any Dirtfish or Autosport articles in the following few days :D

[AnttiL]

Also, have to admit I was genuinely impressed by Katsuta being faster than Loubet & Greensmith and actually keeping it on the road and finishing 6th.
I'd say Katsuta is a step above the two others. Katsuta has shown glimpses of real speed in Monza and now here. Greensmith has never shown any pace and Loubet's good stage times this weekend were affected by his good starting position.

[Eli]

I'd say Katsuta is a step above the two others. Katsuta has shown glimpses of real speed in Monza and now here. Greensmith has never shown any pace and Loubet's good stage times this weekend were affected by his good starting position.

Yes I agree, I think unlike the other two he actually manages to be both quick and consistent, important if you want to move forward as a driver, and if he can finish Monte, I'll start to keep my eyes out to see if he also improves on gravel.

[scn]

Rules are rules and should be respected.
However, can someone tell me one, only one, accident that has happened because a rally driver drove in liaison sections on a rim? Please mention one accident, and I am willing to forget all the things I have seen from Bjorn Waldegard, Kenneth Eriksson, Seb Loeb and so many others driving, not on a rim but without even a rim. Please mention one such accident. Otherwise, I will remain on the side of Bjorn, Kenneth and Seb.

To be honest, as a driver I find this rule hypocritical, to say the least. I have driven stages on a rim (including a very tough Acropolis stage) and so have done almost all drivers. The safety issue is much more important IN a special stage, not in a liaison section, especially these days that average speeds in liaison section are very low. I have seen Bjorn driving like a maniac in 5th gear on a rim, in a stage full of spectators, and Kenneth driving two stages the Golf with the rear axle hitting the ground, not slowly at all, and then fix the car and go on to win his class. Both of them, as well as the rest I have seen, including myself, WERE NOT DANGEROUS in the liaison section driving in normal speeds. All of them, including myself, were dangerous for the spectators IN THE STAGE. This is why I find this rule hypocritical.

P.S. In my opinion, Ott in a WRC car on 3 wheels is much safer in normal road speeds than 99% of drivers in usual cars on 4 wheels. However, this is just an opinion and should only be regarded as an opinion. The aforementioned safety issues and comparisons are not an opinion, they are facts.

[Rallyper]

99% of cases the spare tyre at the last liaison wouldn’t be needed. It would be a huge expense for nothing. And double punctures could still happen in the middle of a loop.

Huge expence? For saving a driver still be around, not going home? Investing millions in a car and driver, it should be a no cost to keep them stay in a rally, having a spare for the last liasion...

Getting double puncture in a middle of a loop isn´t about what´s been discussed. That´s a retire thing. A rally2, if not in Monte Saturday, which also is a ridiculous rule from ACM, no matter they´ve got space for parkings or not.

Btw: I started a new thread about weird or crazy rules needed a change.

[AnttiL]

The aforementioned safety issues and comparisons are not an opinion, they are facts.

A fact should have a some sort of source. Single stories of positive experiences does not count. It's like saying you don't need helmets in rally cars because they used to drive Safari without helmets and no one died. Or you can drive in road traffic without seat belts etc.

Also, good to remember that in the days when the sport didn't stop its drivers to continue on three wheels, police often did so.

[AnttiL]

Huge expence? For saving a driver still be around, not going home? Investing millions in a car and driver, it should be a no cost to keep them stay in a rally, having a spare for the last liasion...


I ask for the third time, how many retirements we have seen in the last 10 years because of a double puncture at the end of a loop?

[scn]

A fact should have a some sort of source. Single stories of positive experiences does not count.

The fact is that in stages there have been many accidents because a driver drove on a rim and some of them at totally unexpected places. The fact is also that since 1984 that I have been a spectator and since 1993 that I have been a driver, I haven't heard a single accident in a liaison section because of this.
Please mention one such accident.
Do you want me to post videos of cars going out in a special stage because of driving on a flat tyre?

PS. Experience DOES count. The comparisons with driving without helmets and seat belts are totally contrary to experience.

[cali]

We have vegans who need to state everywhere that they are vegans.
We have no Sanders (meme) sitting in every picture.
.. and now we have Mirek who need to write often "but Tänak made wrong tyre choice!" :)

get over it, Tänak rerired, rally is over, life goes on. Breath.Somehow i see that Tänak fanboys can't get over it, not Mirek. Now get over it and accept the rules in the business!

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

[cali]

Rules are rules and should be respected.
However, can someone tell me one, only one, accident that has happened because a rally driver drove in liaison sections on a rim? Please mention one accident, and I am willing to forget all the things I have seen from Bjorn Waldegard, Kenneth Eriksson, Seb Loeb and so many others driving, not on a rim but without even a rim. Please mention one such accident. Otherwise, I will remain on the side of Bjorn, Kenneth and Seb.

To be honest, as a driver I find this rule hypocritical, to say the least. I have driven stages on a rim (including a very tough Acropolis stage) and so have done almost all drivers. The safety issue is much more important IN a special stage, not in a liasion section, especially these days that average speeds in liasion section are very low. I have seen Bjorn driving like a maniac in 5th gear on a rim, in a stage full of spectators, and Kenneth driving two stages the Golf with the rear axle hitting the ground, not slowly at all, and then fix the car and go on to win his class. Both of them, as well as the rest I have seen, including myself, WERE NOT DANGEROUS in the liasion section driving in normal speeds. All of them, including myself, were dangerous for the spectators IN THE STAGE. This is why I find this rule hypocritical.

P.S. In my opinion, Ott in a WRC car on 3 wheels is much safer in normal road speeds than 99% of drivers in usual cars on 4 wheels. However, this is just an opinion and should only be regarded as an opinion. The aforementioned safety issues and comparisons are not an opinion, they are facts.So you need an accident to be proven otherwise? IMHO driving on public roads with 3 wheels is forbidden anywhere and with any car which has 4 wheels registered.

I don't get your logic honestly

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

[scn]

So you need an accident to proven otherwise? IMHO driving on public roads with 3 wheels is forbidden anywhere and with any car which has 4 wheels registered.

I don't get your logic honestly

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

Logic is, first the hypocricy. If someone really put "safety first", he should ban driving in a SS on a rim. However, I think we all agree that this would not be rallying. Second part of logic is that, formalities and "correctnesses" should be judged in such a sport, having always in mind the essence of it. All of you remember Seb driving with Daniel hanging from the window. It is a memory of the sport, and it is a part of the essence of this sport. Same applies for Bjorn engaging 5th alongside a huge cliff, with on tyre less. This is also part of the essence of rallying. If something does not pose ACTUAL danger to the public, please, let it be. Ott with his WRC driving at 60 kph is safer than most of us even if he had only two wheels.

[T16]

I'm asking again, can you name the cases when a double puncture occurred at the last stage of a leg, resulting in a retirement? I don't remember any. Seems like a very corner case.

You sound like a school teacher talking to a naughty pupil.
Not really bothered if it’s happened in the past or not.

[cali]

Logic is, first the hypocricy. If someone really put "safety first", he should ban driving in a SS on a rim. However, I think we all agree that this would not be rallying. Second part of logic is that, formalities and "correctnesses" should be judged in such a sport, having always in mind the essence of it. All of you remember Seb driving with Daniel hanging from the window. It is a memory of the sport, and it is a part of the essence of this sport. Same applies for Bjorn engaging 5th alongside a huge cliff, with on tyre less. This is also part of the essence of rallying. If something does not pose ACTUAL danger to the public, please, let it be. Ott with his WRC driving at 60 kph is safer than most of us even if he had only two wheels.So my question is - is it legal to drive on 3 wheels or not? Simple answer yes or no.

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

[scn]

So my question is - is it legal to drive on 3 wheels or not? Simple answer yes or no.

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

Of course it is not legal. Also, is it legal to drive a car with a roll-cage, a car with high emmissions, a car without MOT tyres, a car with racing seat belts? Simple answer, yes or no?

In my country all the above are illegal. So, let's do rallying without roll-cages, with low emmissions, only with MOT tyres and with MOT approved seat belts. Agree?

[dimviii]

https://youtu.be/wKBg1YBCbLE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=6BeX1t2iPek

[scn]

So my question is - is it legal to drive on 3 wheels or not? Simple answer yes or no.

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

Of course it is not legal. Also, is it legal to drive a car with a roll-cage, a car with high emmissions, a car without MOT tyres, a car with racing seat belts? Simple answer, yes or no?

In my country all the above are illegal. So, let's do rallying without roll-cages, with low emmissions, only with MOT tyres and with MOT approved seat belts. Agree?

EDIT. Has anyone of you driven on FIA tarmac tyres with heavy rain on a liaison section? I have done it and I can assure you it is safer to drive with three DOT tyres and one rim. Should we ban FIA tyres and use only with DOT?

[cali]

Of course it is not legal. Also, is it legal to drive a car with a roll-cage, a car with high emmissions, a car without MOT tyres, a car with racing seat belts? Simple answer, yes or no?

In my country all the above are illegal. So, let's do rallying without roll-cages, with low emmissions, only with MOT tyres and with MOT approved seat belts. Agree?Still somehow police stops only cars with 3 wheels. In Estonia rally cars have special plates and are road legal, but driving on 3 wheels is not legal.

So, rally cars - OK (if they meet the tech standards and have passed inspection) ; driving with 3 wheels or less - not OK (for a reason, technically not in a condition).
Or are you implying that now all of a sudden driving on 3 wheels is road legal because we have fewer starters in wrc?

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

[scn]

Still somehow police stops only cars with 3 wheels. In Estonia rally cars have special plates and are road legal, but driving on 3 wheels is not legal.

So, rally cars - OK; driving with 3 wheels or less - not OK (for a reason).
Or are you implying that now all of a sudden driving on 3 wheels is road legal because we have fewer starters in wrc?

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

I am only saying what I said regarding the hypocricy of the whole matter and what I said about taking into consideration the essence of the sport in every "keeping up with formalities". No implication is made because of fewer starters. Just these two things.

P.S. Honestly, I prefer to drive on a rim than driving in heavy rain on FIA tarmac tyres. The experience is still making me feel terror. So, does this mean that we should use only DOT tyres? Of course not.

[mknight]

Ogier - officially now the Master or King of Monaco, and what a way to show it with the performance like this. There is no other driver in the series at the moment who is mastering those changeable and hard conditions like he does, showed it also in Monza a month ago, he is a step above other with this.

Evans - solid and good second place with good pace. Minded his own business basically the whole rally which was right thing to do.

Neuville - second most impressive performance this week for me. To come Monte with a new co-driver and bring home third place and a couple of stage wins, especially on the stages which maybe were the most tricky ones, impressive.

Rovanperä - also very good performance IMO, had some troubles but good pace and VERY good pace on some of the stages, like power stage for example.

Sordo - so and so, but it isnt his favourite event so i think did well.

Greensmith, Katsuta, Loubet - couple of good stage times from Loubet, also some splits from Katsuta were good i remember on some of the stages but they all are still learning and have a lot to learn.

Tänak - started off very well, Friday was also quite good but also weird, weird in the sense that he was fastest or one of the fastest on every stage until mid stage and then dropped massively time compared to others on the second half of the stages. Silly mistake again on the recce this year and very silly mistake/decision with the one spare only.


I'd say Katsuta is a step above the two others. Katsuta has shown glimpses of real speed in Monza and now here. Greensmith has never shown any pace and Loubet's good stage times this weekend were affected by his good starting position.


I agree with AnttiL, Katsuta did very good tbh and above all had quite consistent performance. Loubet had good stage times only when with road advantage and else he was terrible, usually behind 3-4 Rally2 cars on the stages. Hyundai (especially the older one) is a weird car though, and again as mention he has a hybrid spec never run by the team before (at least in aero).

Sordo was kinda mediocre, specially compared with Monza. Also said he wanted to fight for win before start...

Rovanpera I dunno, was expecting a bit more consistency. Almost seemed he had more consistency last year here, this year it was a bit up and down.

Tanak extremely up and down, tricky Hyundai setup?

[mknight]

Btw. O. Solbegs stuck on the side of the road is shown on Gryazins onboard at 4:15 and it's really weird place tbh.
Doesn't look very slippery there at all and doesn't look like a hard corner, must have somehow lost it on braking with massive push.

[AnttiL]

You sound like a school teacher talking to a naughty pupil.
Not really bothered if it’s happened in the past or not.

So you are just making up a huge issue out of something which happens extremely rarely, but needs to be rectified. I just don't understand this. I would understand it even better if you demanded the extra tyre van for every stage end.

[AnttiL]

I am only saying what I said regarding the hypocricy of the whole matter and what I said about taking into consideration the essence of the sport in every "keeping up with formalities". No implication is made because of fewer starters. Just these two things.


Like I said, FIA can release the rule of banning three-wheeling on roads, but they cannot tell every police officer in every country that rallies are hosted in.

[T16]

So you are just making up a huge issue out of something which happens extremely rarely, but needs to be rectified. I just don't understand this. I would understand it even better if you demanded the extra tyre van for every stage end.

A huge issue?? What on earth are you talking about? Explain how I have made it a huge issue.
I suggested it and debated it after a few picked some potential holes in it.
Huge issue... give your head a shake.

[AnttiL]

A huge issue?? What on earth are you talking about? Explain how I have made it a huge issue.
I suggested it and debated it after a few picked some potential holes in it.
Huge issue... give your head a shake.

Not just you T16 but all the people who are debating here for adding spare tires at the end of the stage, it's gone for pages so it must be a huge issue :)

I would understand it better if we would see retirements because of this issue every third rally or something. Now it's apparently the first time it happens in 10 years and according to many users on this forum, it instantly needs a big change to the overall rules of rallying.

[RS]

https://youtu.be/wKBg1YBCbLE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=6BeX1t2iPek

Great videos and nice to see more of the field. World Rally Cars actually don’t look that fast in these very tricky conditions, those park-bench rear wings don’t do much at these low speeds!

[AnttiL]

Great videos and nice to see more of the field. World Rally Cars actually don’t look that fast in these very tricky conditions, those park-bench rear wings don’t do much at these low speeds!

The aeros don't really do anything until you're on 5-6th gears.

[AnttiL]

Did you notice how few technical retirements there were in Monte? In fact, none for the P1, P2 or P3 competitors.

In addition to this, Ogier had some brake trouble, Tänak some small issues here and there, but no one had anything major.

[doubled1978]

Did you notice how few technical retirements there were in Monte? In fact, none for the P1, P2 or P3 competitors.

In addition to this, Ogier had some brake trouble, Tänak some small issues here and there, but no one had anything major.

I hadn’t specifically noticed, but that is an impressive stat. But then if you look across all motorsport categories these days the reliability of the vehicles is pretty amazing compared to the past...

[doubled1978]

Not just you T16 but all the people who are debating here for adding spare tires at the end of the stage, it's gone for pages so it must be a huge issue :)

I would understand it better if we would see retirements because of this issue every third rally or something. Now it's apparently the first time it happens in 10 years and according to many users on this forum, it instantly needs a big change to the overall rules of rallying.

Look, I was just reacting to the fact the rally lost a top competitor for what I believe is nonsensical reason in my opinion. If there was a way to fix that in the future for very little overall cost, then why wouldn’t they?
I’m pretty sure the promoter and WRC AllLive were disappointed at the very least one the star attractions was gone, despite having a 100% mechanically sound car, that was able to continue.
I’m not really interested whether it has happened before or not, it’s happened now and it’s a debate as to whether it should happen again or not. In the days of chase cars and mobile service vans this wasn’t a consideration.
Over the years rallying has changed beyond recognition really, other than the roads that are used, it’s all different.
For me, I have never given a toss about anything that doesn’t happen on the stages, couldn’t care less. All this time penalties for being early/late, rubbish...I thought that 40 years ago, and I think it now. To me the rally is about what happens against the clock in a stage.
There is no better spectacle in my mind than watching a WRC car in full attack over a special stage, on either tarmac, snow or gravel, and I want to see as much of it as possible.
I fully understand if others think differently, but that is what I think.

[Rallyper]

Look, I was just reacting to the fact the rally lost a top competitor for what I believe is nonsensical reason in my opinion. If there was a way to fix that in the future for very little overall cost, then why wouldn’t they?
I’m pretty sure the promoter and WRC AllLive were disappointed at the very least one the star attractions was gone, despite having a 100% mechanically sound car, that was able to continue.
I’m not really interested whether it has happened before or not, it’s happened now and it’s a debate as to whether it should happen again or not. In the days of chase cars and mobile service vans this wasn’t a consideration.
Over the years rallying has changed beyond recognition really, other than the roads that are used, it’s all different.
For me, I have never given a toss about anything that doesn’t happen on the stages, couldn’t care less. All this time penalties for being early/late, rubbish...I thought that 40 years ago, and I think it now. To me the rally is about what happens against the clock in a stage.
There is no better spectacle in my mind than watching a WRC car in full attack over a special stage, on either tarmac, snow or gravel, and I want to see as much of it as possible.
I fully understand if others think differently, but that is what I think.

+10

[mknight]

Look, I was just reacting to the fact the rally lost a top competitor for what I believe is nonsensical reason in my opinion. If there was a way to fix that in the future for very little overall cost, then why wouldn’t they?
I’m pretty sure the promoter and WRC AllLive were disappointed at the very least one the star attractions was gone, despite having a 100% mechanically sound car, that was able to continue.
I’m not really interested whether it has happened before or not, it’s happened now and it’s a debate as to whether it should happen again or not. In the days of chase cars and mobile service vans this wasn’t a consideration.
Over the years rallying has changed beyond recognition really, other than the roads that are used, it’s all different.
For me, I have never given a toss about anything that doesn’t happen on the stages, couldn’t care less. All this time penalties for being early/late, rubbish...I thought that 40 years ago, and I think it now. To me the rally is about what happens against the clock in a stage.
There is no better spectacle in my mind than watching a WRC car in full attack over a special stage, on either tarmac, snow or gravel, and I want to see as much of it as possible.
I fully understand if others think differently, but that is what I think.

"Nonsensical reason", ok Neuville should have driven on 3 wheels in Estonia right, no issues at all... just a wheel missing.

"Disappointed that a star was gone" ....ehh there is superrally for that reason, Monte one day with their special rules is one single day in the year..... hardly a big issue. Btw. why didn't you cry in 2019 when Mikkelsen's car could easily have been fixed after breaking a wheel from 3rd place?

This multi-page spam is just irritating and off topic here.

[AnttiL]

Over the years rallying has changed beyond recognition really, other than the roads that are used, it’s all different.
For me, I have never given a toss about anything that doesn’t happen on the stages, couldn’t care less. All this time penalties for being early/late, rubbish...I thought that 40 years ago, and I think it now. To me the rally is about what happens against the clock in a stage.


When rallying started there were no special stages, or maybe just a handful of them and other driving tests in addition to long liaisons. If the road sections and road penalties would be taken away, the last original part of rallying would be lost, and therefore it would literally be changed beyond recognition.

[TypeR]

"Nonsensical reason", ok Neuville should have driven on 3 wheels in Estonia right, no issues at all... just a wheel missing.

"Disappointed that a star was gone" ....ehh there is superrally for that reason, Monte one day with their special rules is one single day in the year..... hardly a big issue. Btw. why didn't you cry in 2019 when Mikkelsen's car could easily have been fixed after breaking a wheel from 3rd place?

This multi-page spam is just irritating and off topic here.

Not anymore about Tänak's DSQ/retirement, but don't go that silly..
Neuville's and Mikkelsen's car were missing basically the whole rear corner.
https://www.upload.ee/image/12804261/IMG_20210125_170654.jpg

[doubled1978]

"Nonsensical reason", ok Neuville should have driven on 3 wheels in Estonia right, no issues at all... just a wheel missing.

"Disappointed that a star was gone" ....ehh there is superrally for that reason, Monte one day with their special rules is one single day in the year..... hardly a big issue. Btw. why didn't you cry in 2019 when Mikkelsen's car could easily have been fixed after breaking a wheel from 3rd place?

This multi-page spam is just irritating and off topic here.

Where did I mention it was a good idea for anyone to drive on three wheels? And I have more going on my life than to try and recall every incident in the history of WRC.
You are allowed an opinion, and so am I, they don’t have to be the same. But don’t start with the aggressive, infantile comments like ‘why didn’t I cry in 2019’, simply say, I don’t agree with you. Grow up.

[doubled1978]

When rallying started there were no special stages, or maybe just a handful of them and other driving tests in addition to long liaisons. If the road sections and road penalties would be taken away, the last original part of rallying would be lost, and therefore it would literally be changed beyond recognition.

Yes it would I agree. I guess where we disagree is whether that actually matters or not..

[AnttiL]

I don't want to proceed with this silly argument. It won't make any difference anywhere. Let's just agree to disagree and continue with our lives.

:)

[doubled1978]

I don't want to proceed with this silly argument. It won't make any difference anywhere. Let's just agree to disagree and continue with our lives.

:)

Yes please ��

[meh]

You run out of arguments long time ago... argumentation without arguments I call "religion war". There will be no end for that :)

[Rallyper]

When rallying started there were no special stages, or maybe just a handful of them and other driving tests in addition to long liaisons. If the road sections and road penalties would be taken away, the last original part of rallying would be lost, and therefore it would literally be changed beyond recognition.

Going from discussion of three wheels (or giving extra wheel for final liasion) we now discuss original rallying and how it looked.

Fine.

Just let me give you more. Back in the old days you got penalty in seconds for having bumps on your car after stages. Just to tell about the changes over time.

However I would never ask for skipping timing on road sections, also meaning not taking them away, if not something dramatically happens in the future regarding rules or technicals.

[SubaruNorway]

Did anyone actually get fined the 135€ for spectating?
Autocar claims so...
https://www.autocar.co.uk/opinion/motorsport-news/opinion-if-you-cant-stage-monte-properly-dont-stage-it-all

[Steve Boyd]

Look, I was just reacting to the fact the rally lost a top competitor for what I believe is nonsensical reason in my opinion.The rally lost a top competitor due to his own stupidity.

If the rally organisers were givig a free wheel & tyre away at the end of the stage then he'd have started with no spare and been in the same position.

If you aren't interested in what happens between the stages you aren't interested in rallying and should go and watch rallycross.

[AnttiL]

Colin Clark was surprisingly spot on with his driver ratings. Especially giving 2/10 to Greensmith was quite surprising.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/colin-clarks-2021-monte-carlo-rally-driver-ratings/

[AnttiL]

Did anyone actually get fined the 135€ for spectating?
Autocar claims so...
https://www.autocar.co.uk/opinion/motorsport-news/opinion-if-you-cant-stage-monte-properly-dont-stage-it-all

A weird article. But I think it just proves how great rallying is as a sport, when we can perceive it from so many angles. Some (like this author) see it as a social event where you have to be on the stages with people, some think it's all about the fast-speed action and you could forget everything outside the stages (we just saw this angle on the forum), some want to just see different types of cars, no matter the speed, and for some people (like me) the most interesting thing is the sport aspect, the results, split times, driver comments etc.

[doubled1978]

Colin Clark was surprisingly spot on with his driver ratings. Especially giving 2/10 to Greensmith was quite surprising.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/colin-clarks-2021-monte-carlo-rally-driver-ratings/

I thought the ratings were fair also, maybe someone has had a word!

[doubled1978]

The rally lost a top competitor due to his own stupidity.

If the rally organisers were givig a free wheel & tyre away at the end of the stage then he'd have started with no spare and been in the same position.

If you aren't interested in what happens between the stages you aren't interested in rallying and should go and watch rallycross.

Who are you to tell me what I should watch?

[mknight]

Colin Clark was surprisingly spot on with his driver ratings. Especially giving 2/10 to Greensmith was quite surprising.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/colin-clarks-2021-monte-carlo-rally-driver-ratings/

Compared to Monza the "accuracy" of the ratings is clearly an improvement (well hard to do worse than at Monza).

The only one I have a bit of issue with is Sordo 7/10. Considering how he did in Monza on changing surfaces and even in the mountains and that he said he aims to fight for win I'd rate it around 5/10.

[mknight]

Who are you to tell me what I should watch?

He simply says he doesn't agree with you. Grow up and stop beating a dead horse.

[Eli]

Compared to Monza the "accuracy" of the ratings is clearly an improvement (well hard to do worse than at Monza).

The only one I have a bit of issue with is Sordo 7/10. Considering how he did in Monza on changing surfaces and even in the mountains and that he said he aims to fight for win I'd rate it around 5/10.

Well unlike Monza, Sordo didn't do the event since 2018, and you have to have confidence in yourself, car and tyres to make it to the podium, and after Tanak's DNF I'm guessing he was under strict orders not to push and make it to the finish.

[mknight]

Solberg had a house in his way on Saturday:

https://youtu.be/vOvhm5wO3Ys

[Mirek]

Solberg had a house in his way on Saturday:

https://youtu.be/vOvhm5wO3Ys

I think it was Katsuta who nearly did the same on all live.

[wwbroe]

I think it was Katsuta who nearly did the same on all live.

I think it was Gus who nearly parked into the garage.:D

[EstWRC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuLQJIX-H1M

[T16]

He simply says he doesn't agree with you. Grow up and stop beating a dead horse.

He's not saying he doesn't agree. He's being positively rude saying 'go watch rallycross'. Totally agree with doubled 1978 that the event could have been much better if Tanak was in the fight.
So what if this has occurred once in a blue moon - the fact is it did happen and there have been some decent suggestions regarding how it could have been avoided.
Yes, the road sections are part of the game, but it's also a team sport, so why not allow one crew to help another from the same team?
Telling someone to go watch another sport because they are trying to suggest a scenario where a top driver could stay in the event is a bit shit to say the least.

[T16]

I thought the ratings were fair also, maybe someone has had a word!

Thinking the same thing myself. Surely, he can only dine out on 'I'm just having a laugh with my ratings / articles / opinions / general rally knowledge' before someone starts asking questions.

A forum member posted he thinks Clarke will be gone from Dirtfish before the year end... I wouldn't be surprised at all.

[AnttiL]

Totally agree with doubled 1978 that the event could have been much better if Tanak was in the fight.

Tänak would have been out of the fight anyway with the punctures, which didn't have anything to do with the liaison rules. Most likely he wouldn't have made it to top ten. And like I suggested earlier, him continuing would have resulted in a "tyre-saving theatre" for Sunday morning. These things happen and it's a part of the sport, we just have to accept it.

[T16]

Tänak would have been out of the fight anyway with the punctures, which didn't have anything to do with the liaison rules. Most likely he wouldn't have made it to top ten. And like I suggested earlier, him continuing would have resulted in a "tyre-saving theatre" for Sunday morning. These things happen and it's a part of the sport, we just have to accept it.

It would have been better with him in it still.

[Rallyper]

Tänak would have been out of the fight anyway with the punctures, which didn't have anything to do with the liaison rules. Most likely he wouldn't have made it to top ten. And like I suggested earlier, him continuing would have resulted in a "tyre-saving theatre" for Sunday morning. These things happen and it's a part of the sport, we just have to accept it.

If you didn´t get it from the beginning; it´s not about Tanak. It´s about be attractive sport. Tanak was the driver who got it actualised.

[AnttiL]

If you didn´t get it from the beginning; it´s not about Tanak. It´s about be attractive sport. Tanak was the driver who got it actualised.

Why do you keep repeating that? I was replying to T16 who mentioned Tänak :)

Besides, this is the Monte 2021 thread.

[wyler]

If you didn´t get it from the beginning; it´s not about Tanak. It´s about be attractive sport. Tanak was the driver who got it actualised.

to me a sport is not very attractive if it is devoted to fans service.
there are a lot of show just to cheer at heroes, monza show, rally legend, eiffel, goodwood, and so on. that's where you do everything to have driver in it at any cost, whitout any rules. not so attracting to me.
sport is another thing.

[Rallyper]

to me a sport is not very attractive if it is devoted to fans service.
there are a lot of show just to cheer at heroes, monza show, rally legend, eiffel, goodwood, and so on. that's where you do everything to have driver in it at any cost, whitout any rules. not so attracting to me.
sport is another thing.

Still out of bounds of discussion. Sorry.

[pantealex]

This problem with broken tyres just before liaison has happened many times in lower categories, no-one has ever asked rule change so don´t say "caseTänak" has nothing to do with it.

Also no-one was saying before Monte started that rules should change

Most of WRC events have max number of entries 60, again no-one has been against it but when Monte takes 60 (or 50 this time) for Sunday it´s suddenly big problem

So please complain about rules before not after something has happened.

[doubled1978]

Thinking the same thing myself. Surely, he can only dine out on 'I'm just having a laugh with my ratings / articles / opinions / general rally knowledge' before someone starts asking questions.

A forum member posted he thinks Clarke will be gone from Dirtfish before the year end... I wouldn't be surprised at all.

I can’t say I’ve hung on his every word, or even paid that much attention to him over the years, but as a general impression I get the feeling that moving to DirtFish and the journalistic freedom that came with it, hasn’t improved his material!

[rallyfiend]

I can’t say I’ve hung on his every word, or even paid that much attention to him over the years, but as a general impression I get the feeling that moving to DirtFish and the journalistic freedom that came with it, hasn’t improved his material!

As soon as he left working for the official channels he lost a huge amount of relevance.

His lack of real knowledge about the sport has never been plainer to see.

[wyler]

Still out of bounds of discussion. Sorry.

man, that's you: "If you didn´t get it from the beginning; it´s not about Tanak. It´s about be attractive sport. Tanak was the driver who got it actualised."
just responded with what to me is attracting in sport. if it's out of bound, you did bring me there! : )

[dimviii]

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_01_2021/post-1425-0-38136500-1611785075.jpg

[Rallyper]

Tanak was the driver who got it actualised.



This problem with broken tyres just before liaison has happened many times in lower categories, no-one has ever asked rule change so don´t say "caseTänak" has nothing to do with it.

Also no-one was saying before Monte started that rules should change

Most of WRC events have max number of entries 60, again no-one has been against it but when Monte takes 60 (or 50 this time) for Sunday it´s suddenly big problem

So please complain about rules before not after something has happened.

There are many laws and rules been changed being
actualised after something not wanted happened.


man, that's you: "If you didn´t get it from the beginning; it´s not about Tanak. It´s about be attractive sport. Tanak was the driver who got it actualised."
just responded with what to me is attracting in sport. if it's out of bound, you did bring me there! : )

???

[Fast Eddie WRC]

@RallyingUK

Everyone who’s criticised @MSportLtd over the last week, should take their heads out of the sand and read what Malcolm Wilson told @davidevansrally in his interview for @DirtFishRally.

[Franky]

@RallyingUK

Everyone who’s criticised @MSportLtd over the last week, should take their heads out of the sand and read what Malcolm Wilson told @davidevansrally in his interview for @DirtFishRally.

What's the point of copying that tweet?

[dimviii]

pirelli suffered just one more puncture on its full World Rally Championship return at last week’s Monte Carlo Rally than Michelin had at the same event in 2020, according to the its rally activity manager Terenzio Testoni.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/was-pirellis-wrc-return-in-monte-a-success/

[dimviii]

nice video showing Katsu foot on pedals,and the road

https://twitter.com/OfficialWRC/status/1355486920957038601

[Fast Eddie WRC]

What's the point of copying that tweet?

Did you not read all the negative M-Sport driver comments in this thread during the rally ?

[steve.mandzij]

Did you not read all the negative M-Sport driver comments in this thread during the rally ?Given M-Sport's current situation I'd wager you're doing this for free. I admire your fanatism, and I'm sure we all understand why Greensmith is in the team, but that doesn't make him immune to criticism just because M-Sport is in a bit of a tight spot.

Justified or not M-Sport is in a sad, desperate state, and we all hope for them to bounce back soon, but there's no point in trying to repel and smother criticism like you're doing.

[TypeR]

About Gus.. I'd say that let's wait 1-2 rallies.. obviously after Teemu's fkup, he HAD to bring the car to finish.
I don't say that he would have been in top5 in all stages, but better for sure.
Even with better mood the loss would have been less..
Hopefully he will get faster rally by rally and the ,,lead driver role,, in the team is a + for him.

[dimviii]

hahaha

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Es-jrL4XYAEo3p7?format=jpg&name=medium

[Franky]

Did you not read all the negative M-Sport driver comments in this thread during the rally ?

Yes, I've read them and agree to a certain degree with them. But what's so valuable or important about that tweet?

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EtFYP4bW8AgHHrI?format=jpg&name=large

[TypeR]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EtFYP4bW8AgHHrI?format=jpg&name=large

Like said before.. haven't seen so many ,,fully off the rim'' tyres before.. seems easier than at a tyre workshop :D

Really good photo + is it a front left puncture also?

To me it's quite a big mess/fail by Pirelli.. so much was decided by just tyres..

[dimviii]

Like said before.. haven't seen so many ,,fully off the rim'' tyres before.. seems easier than at a tyre workshop :D

Really good photo + is it a front left puncture also?

To me it's quite a big mess/fail by Pirelli.. so much was decided by just tyres..

there is a link at dirtfish at this topic,which shows that this year there was just 1 more puncture than the least years michelins for 4wd cars (20 vs 21)

[wyler]

strange as it may seem, Pirelli stated that they got just +1 puncture compared to Michelin last Monte.

[AnttiL]

Maybe they count WRC2 as well because I don't recall any punctures for the top drivers in 2020

https://www.ewrc-results.com/quotes/59972-rallye-automobile-de-monte-carlo-2020/

A lot more punctures in 2019, but at least the Toyota punctures were caused by their rims breaking.

https://www.ewrc-results.com/quotes/52398-rallye-automobile-de-monte-carlo-2019/

[br21]

Yes, they count all 4wd cars.
It's quite normal to have more punctures while using snow tires as sidewalls are weaker in those tires. Also some of the stages were not typical Monte ones, with possibility of deep (muddy) cuts where it's much easier to damage the tire.

[Co-driven]

there is a link at dirtfish at this topic,which shows that this year there was just 1 more puncture than the least years michelins for 4wd cars (20 vs 21)

But Terenzio forgot to mention that this year's event was shorter (don't know exactly how much). And I also don't know the total amount of 4wd on each event...

[mknight]

This year they seemed to have snow tires in the mix for every section. Previous years were often with slicks. Just my impression. Similarly I agree there seemed to be more cuts.

[dimviii]

But Terenzio forgot to mention that this year's event was shorter (don't know exactly how much). And I also don't know the total amount of 4wd on each event...

as br21 stated,while there was shorter,there was more stages with the more prone for puncture snow tyres,compared to last year.

[jparker]

as br21 stated,while there was shorter,there was more stages with the more prone for puncture snow tyres,compared to last year.What about the icy stages? We had quite few of them.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

[dimviii]

Ogier VS. Neuville / FULL ONBOARD SS12 - WRC Rallye Monte-Carlo 2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5VqmBB0VaE&feature=youtu.be