WRC Rally Sweden 2020

[Katvala]

I can say the same for yr.no - have received nothing but false forecasts for years. It used to be very reliable service but changed many years ago.

Sent from my GM1913 using TapatalkI think complaining about bad weather forecasting is a common thing for generations lol. Weather changes, often unexpectedly

AccuWeather is fairly wrong as it bases itself on the average temperatures of the past.

Yr at least tells you what forecast is very uncertain etc

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

[SubaruNorway]

Yr is correct where i work in Norway, been snowing for three days here now and 20-25cm. Had rain almost to the minute when I looked at the radar in Mökkipëra on year!

[linni]

I can say the same for yr.no - have received nothing but false forecasts for years. It used to be very reliable service but changed many years ago.

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

Agree, Yr is not perfect, but mostly you can trust it. Gismeteo used to be very precise, but about 8 -10 years ago they changed their modelling algorhytms and after that things went sideways.

[Mirek]

Yr used to be good for our country but in the last two or three years it became much worse. Now it's not very reliable at least for here.

[Franky]

Yr has become less accurate, but still better than Accuweather, which is far from accurate. But this winter it doesn't matter which service you follow, longer than two day forecast rarely stays the same.

[cali]

Yes, I have yet to find a reliable weather forecast provider unless it's Bluuford

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

[Franky]

Yes, I have yet to find a reliable weather forecast provider unless it's Bluuford

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

You need to make him an offer, he can't refuse :D

[mknight]

YR.no is a web interface presenting results of different models depending on where you are.

For NO, SWE and FIN it presents results of AROME MEPS (and AROME Arctic north of Scandinavia) models. This is a cooperation model developed by meteorological institutes of the 3 countries and is the most accurate and detailed (in horizontal resolution) model for that area.

For other countries YR interface gives results of ECMWF operational model (which sits in England and is a cooperation of just about all European countries). The ECMWF model has much lower horizontal resolution and is typically less adjusted to "local/country" specific conditions, so by definition it should be less accurate. The ECMWF operational prediction model is available to all countries that are part of the ECMWF and is often used as a starting point of their own models.

Therefore YR.no results outside of Scandinavia should basically always be less accurate than local models. If they are not it reflects poorly on the local models. Off course this is valid only on a statistical basis and not for each moment. It can also be location dependent.

What happened some years ago when YR was first introduced is that people from a lot of countries outside of Scandinavia started using it because the web-interfaces from their local forecasts were hopelessly bad or non-existing in comparison. Often this was "by design" since the local meteorological institutes sold their detailed predictions for income.

EDIT: The results from the global American GFS model are also available at multiple sites, but those have similar resolution issues as ECMWF one. But off course at a given point of time they can be both better or worse than ECMWF or local models.

[cali]

YR.no is a web interface presenting results of different models depending on where you are.

For NO, SWE and FIN it presents results of AROME MEPS (and AROME Arctic north of Scandinavia) models. This is a cooperation model developed by meteorological institutes of the 3 countries and is the most accurate and detailed (in horizontal resolution) model for that area.

For other countries YR interface gives results of ECMWF operational model (which sits in England and is a cooperation of just about all European countries). The ECMWF model has much lower horizontal resolution and is typically less adjusted to "local/country" specific conditions, so by definition it should be less accurate. The ECMWF operational prediction model is available to all countries that are part of the ECMWF and is often used as a starting point of their own models.

Therefore YR.no results outside of Scandinavia should basically always be less accurate than local models. If they are not it reflects poorly on the local models. Off course this is valid only on a statistical basis and not for each moment. It can also be location dependent.

What happened some years ago when YR was first introduced is that people from a lot of countries outside of Scandinavia started using it because the web-interfaces from their local forecasts were hopelessly bad or non-existing in comparison. Often this was "by design" since the local meteorological institutes sold their detailed predictions for income.

EDIT: The results from the global American GFS model are also available at multiple sites, but those have similar resolution issues as ECMWF one. But off course at a given point of time they can be both better or worse than ECMWF or local models.That explains why scandinavians receive accurate results and the rest of us are still struggling to get reliable forecasts. Thanks!

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

[masa90]

Well to me yr.no for example predicts plus weather for most of next week. So lets see. Still holding on my decision on whatever to go or not.

[BleAivano]

Weather in Scandinavia is generally very unpredictable but this winter it has been more unpredictable then usual. At the moment it looks like lots of warm weather for the next 10 days
with some colder days too. Forecast for end of next week is to reliable and will likely change, however the trend the past couple of weeks have been predictions of snow and colder weather
which haven't been the case and instead warmer weaher. So I think there will be a few cancelled stages but that they will (try to) go on with the rally at all costs. If the cancel it there won't be a Swedish Rally next year.

[Rallyper]

Weather forecasts can´t predict rallyweek as yet.

I´d use smhi.se chose "vädret" and "10-dygns prognos" type Torsby or Hagfors and you get day by day 10 days forecast.

[AnttiL]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPnxr8tWAAAsOTD?format=jpg&name=large

[linni]

Frozen. Good.

[diegoalju]

https://www.facebook.com/264110923638723/posts/2687590894624035/?vh=e&d=n

Hi! The spot in the 0:45 second.... where is it?

Thanks

[SubaruNorway]

https://www.facebook.com/264110923638723/posts/2687590894624035/?vh=e&d=n

Hi! The spot in the 0:45 second.... where is it?

Thanks

Middle of Röjden

[AnttiL]

Middle of Röjden

...which is not driven this year

[SubaruNorway]

Which is a shame because It's become one of the classics and my favorite stage walking across the lake and filming places like the one below, hopefully Nyckelvattnet has something good, haven't seen any video's of it yet or much photo's.

[AnttiL]

Hof-Finnskog
https://scontent-hel2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/84300195_10219824057426245_2939527736810536960_n.j pg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ohc=7AVdLkUZKU4AX86kyMJ&_nc_ht=scontent-hel2-1.xx&oh=d10bb40d6c10f8ddaa2005f9284d8f0d&oe=5ED6B95E
https://scontent-hel2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/83256777_10219824058026260_3483599784252538880_n.j pg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ohc=izxIXPb9BhkAX8ERLCO&_nc_ht=scontent-hel2-1.xx&oh=3d0c1e57040e626dce7d92f014277ec9&oe=5ECD8962
https://scontent-hel2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/84111095_10219824058866281_1806884477910122496_n.j pg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ohc=HFVJT0MyaiUAX89Wxi-&_nc_ht=scontent-hel2-1.xx&oh=7a917df07b9f93c8df616028af61d2db&oe=5EBDCCA9

Finnskogen
https://scontent-hel2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/84040430_2505259079792250_4354484947038240768_n.jp g?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ohc=K7mwVYoQpucAX_LneCg&_nc_ht=scontent-hel2-1.xx&oh=4b8f10592ae35b247d45c1828810845a&oe=5ED34A05
https://scontent-hel2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/83374605_2505259113125580_8924746242118909952_n.jp g?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ohc=acWFPbDBnOIAX-lSIRT&_nc_ht=scontent-hel2-1.xx&oh=7428da8dfd0c2b588496f41b65ed4d5e&oe=5ED9B8A1

Nyckelvattnet
https://scontent-hel2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/83970647_10162848276580305_7208717210330595328_n.j pg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ohc=3pcVjwqDfCIAX_XAjnj&_nc_ht=scontent-hel2-1.xx&oh=877892557e504fe4a000c592994b9c56&oe=5EC4977D
https://scontent-hel2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/83045052_10222130127182273_4049015469808549888_n.j pg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ohc=Ilz6AOuthQsAX8qESNZ&_nc_ht=scontent-hel2-1.xx&oh=82262d4fe478e19ca96e9f99fbbb4438&oe=5EBD647D

[mknight]

Right now it's looking ok with some melting today ahead of the cold next 4 days which could create ice. The problem is that long term predictions show plus degrees during nights next weekend.... but those are not to be trusted much until Wednesday-Thursday.

[AnttiL]

The Saturday stages are the most troublesome...this is Hagfors's last corner.

https://scontent-hel2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/84510267_10213384025109973_308963652168318976_o.jp g?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ohc=1jyNd2fBG7oAX-5GFFS&_nc_ht=scontent-hel2-1.xx&oh=59230fe591f0ba096f2108cfbdb6c43b&oe=5ED601FA

[DocMS]

The Saturday stages are the most troublesome...this is Hagfors's last corner.

https://scontent-hel2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/84510267_10213384025109973_308963652168318976_o.jp g?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ohc=1jyNd2fBG7oAX-5GFFS&_nc_ht=scontent-hel2-1.xx&oh=59230fe591f0ba096f2108cfbdb6c43b&oe=5ED601FAAgree that Friday & Sunday stages look like will be ok. Issue being Saturday stages but should hopefully still be enough kms to keep the rally running.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[tommeke_B]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE8SD3upCwM

Back in 2000 it seems like they drove in conditions that were far from ideal as well... Maybe taking the risk to destroy the roads is the most interesting option at this point. Could be better than refunding spectators, entrants, disappointed sponsors etc, and putting an end to Rally Sweden...

[Tauri_J]

Looks like at the end of the next week the weathers gonna be very warm again.

[EstWRC]

wasnt it tomorrow that they will decide if it goes ahead or not?

[linni]

Have anyone got their rally passes yet?
Usually they ship them out in January, except 3 - 4 years ago, when they did it one week before the rally.

[masa90]

Have anyone got their rally passes yet?
Usually they ship them out in January, except 3 - 4 years ago, when they did it one week before the rally.

Yes on facebook group there was people showing their passes.

[linni]

Found on payment confirmation email:
All deliveries are made week 5 when the RallyMagazine and entry lists are ready
So arrival probably next week.

[BleAivano]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE8SD3upCwM

Back in 2000 it seems like they drove in conditions that were far from ideal as well... Maybe taking the risk to destroy the roads is the most interesting option at this point. Could be better than refunding spectators, entrants,
disappointed sponsors etc, and putting an end to Rally Sweden...

I can see both sides of it. On one side I agree with what you say that sponsors/TV-companies, teams, specators can't be let down and etc. However if you look upon it from the other side, if the roads gets too damaged
the likely hood of being allowed to used those roads next year will become slimmer (even if the rally pays for restoration of the roads). That said I really don't see them cancelling. Step 1 is to cancel the stages that are in
the worst condition and then if needed and if possible a stage could be rerun once on another day just to get the necessary KM. Step 2 would be to cancel the historic class either completely or on some stages.

[AnttiL]

Finnskogen (one of the Norway stages)

https://scontent-hel2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/84743672_1090856127774919_3076700312115871744_n.jp g?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ohc=CfPPWvMPYU4AX8MfU3T&_nc_ht=scontent-hel2-1.xx&oh=0262fb0eb41ed483f5634c1528ab8f94&oe=5EC11CED

Hagfors (Saturday)
https://scontent-hel2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/83635288_10216750336171449_6981411353294536704_n.j pg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=z8w_iGq7PboAX8yweG6&_nc_ht=scontent-hel2-1.xx&oh=5d60cbcf1654261c61055f7c835a7089&oe=5EDC0723
https://scontent-hel2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/84334501_10216750336771464_4017861327526559744_n.j pg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=Irx4i31Y8P4AX8aACbR&_nc_ht=scontent-hel2-1.xx&oh=64295c8d7b65dae5689bd8be2a9826d0&oe=5EC3079F
https://scontent-hel2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/83620703_10216750337291477_4954387763987218432_n.j pg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=7xrbmyIJRTgAX81jToB&_nc_ht=scontent-hel2-1.xx&oh=0d40b19bcdcf0266cc24000fb2b8a188&oe=5ECAC02A

Vargåsen (Saturday)
https://scontent-hel2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/84948973_10162645264985478_8908172745007693824_o.j pg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ohc=EFpB6E9MTUoAX-18Dg-&_nc_ht=scontent-hel2-1.xx&_nc_tp=6&oh=087606ff9b9dd29ee295a724a2a12313&oe=5ECF9170

[sghiwosh81]

it arrived Friday afternoon ... we cross our fingershttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200202/a5bf26024b74d580225489166ce117bf.jpg

Inviato dal mio SM-G960F utilizzando Tapatalk

[masa90]

Let's hope for the best but to have the rally properly would need a miracle. When is the date in which the final decision is made?

[AnttiL]

I can see both sides of it. On one side I agree with what you say that sponsors/TV-companies, teams, specators can't be let down and etc. However if you look upon it from the other side, if the roads gets too damaged
the likely hood of being allowed to used those roads next year will become slimmer (even if the rally pays for restoration of the roads). That said I really don't see them cancelling. Step 1 is to cancel the stages that are in
the worst condition and then if needed and if possible a stage could be rerun once on another day just to get the necessary KM. Step 2 would be to cancel the historic class either completely or on some stages.

It's quite clear the Saturday stages (Hagfors, Torntorp and Vargåsen) are in the worst condition. I haven't seen pictures of Torsby stage. Likenäs, Nyckelvattnet, Hof-Finnskog and Finnskogen could possibly be run. Could they fill Saturday with third runs of those stages? Maybe one run of Torsby for the power stage, no matter what conditions? That would make 255 km. The rules say the rally must have 75% of its route to award full points. 75% of the route is 225 km, so they would still have a bit of reserve.

Simply cancelling all Saturday stages would be 183 km, which would only award half points.

However, it's worth considering that if Vargåsen, the Karstad super special and Torsby are all cancelled, the rally loses three of its most important spectator areas.

[EstWRC]

man those pics are just plain awful

lets see what they decide tomorrow....

[KKS]

It's not gonna be happen. 1.5weeks of warm weather require now a lot of snow, that not all melt before a rally. Now we see thin layer of snow at north stages, which will melt by one sunny day with +5 temp. Now we have continues plus degree weather all 1.5 weeks in Sweden. In Norway it colder by 1 or 2 deg, but without huge amount of snow. It's not enough (((

For me it's decision to cancel only Sweden part and hope that Norway stages probably could be driven, or cancel all event now.

No snow predicted here. How it gonna be driven?
https://scontent-hel2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/83620703_10216750337291477_4954387763987218432_n.j pg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ohc=7xrbmyIJRTgAX81jToB&_nc_ht=scontent-hel2-1.xx&oh=0d40b19bcdcf0266cc24000fb2b8a188&oe=5ECAC02A


No fresh snow here, and they must keep for 1.5 of warm week :/
https://scontent-hel2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/84743672_1090856127774919_3076700312115871744_n.jp g?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ohc=CfPPWvMPYU4AX8MfU3T&_nc_ht=scontent-hel2-1.xx&oh=0262fb0eb41ed483f5634c1528ab8f94&oe=5EC11CED

[linni]

Snow is not the main issue here.
Icy roads are. The ones in north from Torsby look pretty solid, but Saturday loop looks bad. However you can see ice banks floating in the lake on Vargasen picture so we can assume the road base might be fifty - sixty, frozen.

[tc10a]

Quite sure they wait at least until next weekend for a final decision. I still see a revised route as the most likely option.

[KKS]

Snow is not the main issue here.
Icy roads are. The ones in north from Torsby look pretty solid, but Saturday loop looks bad. However you can see ice banks floating in the lake on Vargasen picture so we can assume the road base might be fifty - sixty, frozen.
You think it's still possible to run event only on frozen gravel? Not good idea IMHO.

[Tauri_J]

The'll run 100% if the ground is frozen. But not a chance with such a warm weather coming in.

[mknight]

You think it's still possible to run event only on frozen gravel? Not good idea IMHO.

If it's cold they can make an ice layer by watering, problem is that the long term forecasts now predict no minus degrees from Saturday on. Yes predictions for 6 days ahead are hardly accurate, but they certainly don't look good atm.

IMO it is entirely possible to cancel it. But with Australia and Chile recently cancelled there surely is some pressure on the promoter to deliver "product" that manus, media, sponsors etc. pay for. Therefore they will not cancel it tomorrow, but wait until at least end of the week.

[stefanvv]

Why they just not drive the gravel stages as ..... gravel stages?!?

[KKS]

The'll run 100% if the ground is frozen. But not a chance with such a warm weather coming in.
If it not cover by ice or snow - tyre will lose studs very quickly and it's be undriveable very quickly.

Only possible way is watering as mknight said, but too many "if"s. If weather will be below 0, if ground frozen, if watering create solid ice... too many var's for that short time :(

[KKS]

Why they just not drive the gravel stages as ..... gravel stages?!?
it will be perfect!
Gravel and studded tyres must be available. And it gonna be gravel'Monte' for tyre decision.
Setups for gravel and snow - very similar

[linni]

You think it's still possible to run event only on frozen gravel? Not good idea IMHO.

Seen snowless winter rallies before, nothing new.

[linni]

If roads are soft and wet, the area will look like a Battle of Bulge after the rally.
If the roads are at least frozen, then no harm will done and studs can be used. On gravel.

[AnttiL]

Why they just not drive the gravel stages as ..... gravel stages?!?

1. Roads will be destroyed
2. Gravel tyres don't work in ~0°C conditions. They would need a "supersoft" option.
3. I believe the cars still have to use winter tyres in Sweden on the road sections due to traffic legislations.

[GravelBen]

2. Gravel tyres don't work in ~0°C conditions.

That would make it a good challenge for the drivers ;) :monkeedan

[Rallyper]

My hope is out...

Feeling sad.

[RS]

Has Sweden ever been cancelled before?

Second WRC event out of three lost to climate change, or just bad luck?

[Rallyper]

Has Sweden ever been cancelled before?

Second WRC event out of three lost to climate change, or just bad luck?

Yes. 1990. Also lack of ice and snow.

[HKSjbg]

Edit: too slow

[RS]

Yes. 1990. Also lack of ice and snow.

Thanks. Is this a pattern that there has generally been less ice and snow in recent years (not just in rally time) or is this an exceptional event?

[AnttiL]

Thanks. Is this a pattern that there has generally been less ice and snow in recent years (not just in rally time) or is this an exceptional event?

2016 had warm conditions, some stages cancelled
2017 had little snow but much ice
2018 had an excess of snow
2019 had plenty of snow but quite warm slushy conditions

It's a bit different every year. We remember some Rally Swedens with very little snow such as 2000 and 1997

As for winters in Finland, this is the warmest and least-snowy I've ever seen. In fact, my grandpa said 1924 was the previous one with this little snow...

[EstWRC]

David Evans thoughts and his first article for dirtfish https://www.dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/the-nightmare-choice-facing-rally-sweden/

[masa90]

It has been on/off for decades now. I remember seeing highlights from late 80s and even back then there was some races with really little snow. Then in the 90s there was some good races with lots of snow and some horrible with just enough to run. In the 2000s, feel like the winter conditions been more stable but generally not very cold. Even if you consider that they have partly moved the rally closer to Norway and northern parts of Sweden it is bad to still get this weather.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Time to move north or another country to guarantee a snow rally ?

[Rallyper]

Thanks. Is this a pattern that there has generally been less ice and snow in recent years (not just in rally time) or is this an exceptional event?

Winther 2008 was completely lack of snow where I live in eastern Sweden. But I should say yes, slowly, winters have been a bit less snow generally. However variations are hard to assess during time...

[Rallyper]

Time to move north or another country to guarantee a snow rally ?

I should say Östersund or Umeå.

Both are big enough cities hosting the rally. No lack of snow and absoulutely stunning stagematerial. (Östersund doesn´t really compete with Åre on hotelbeds)

[HKSjbg]

I should say Östersund or Umeå.

Both are big enough cities hosting the rally. No lack of snow and absoulutely stunning stagematerial. (Östersund doesn´t really compete with Åre on hotelbeds)

I’d like to hear the English-language commentators attempts to pronounce the likely stage names near Umeå, they have enough trouble with Likenäs already 😅

[swanny]

So long as no one needs to go to hospital they'll be fine :D
[Hit the speech button on the translation if you don't know]
https://translate.google.com/#view=home&op=translate&sl=en&tl=sv&text=hospital

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Dirtfish report
https://www.dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/the-nightmare-choice-facing-rally-sweden/

[HKSjbg]

So long as no one needs to go to hospital they'll be fine :D
[Hit the speech button on the translation if you don't know]
https://translate.google.com/#view=home&op=translate&sl=en&tl=sv&text=hospital

Ah, skälvklart 😁 When I asked my Svensk friends why they call ice cream ‘glass’ not ‘is-grädde’ they said why do you call it ‘hospital’ not ‘sick house’ 😅

[BleAivano]

Time to move north or another country to guarantee a snow rally ?


I should say Östersund or Umeå.

Both are big enough cities hosting the rally. No lack of snow and absoulutely stunning stagematerial. (Östersund doesn´t really compete with Åre on hotelbeds)

I agree. Both also have have good connections with Stockholm by air and train. Umeå is a quit large city (130'000 in the municipality) while Östersund is about half the size of Umeå and quite a bit smaller then Karlstad.
Östersund is a bit closer to Stockholm by car and mighty attract more spectators from Norway. Umeå might attract less Norwegians but more Finnish spectators with the ferry between Umeå and Vasa (Finland).
Umeå probably have more hotels/restaurants in the actual city while Östersund probably have hotels in the vicinity although many of those are more skiing resorts.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Do either of the places mentioned above already have rallies in the nearby forests ?

[denkimi]

If roads are soft and wet, the area will look like a Battle of Bulge after the rally.
If the roads are at least frozen, then no harm will done and studs can be used. On gravel.
Are those gravel roads or earth roads?

If they are gravel, i don't see why they would be more destroyed than on any other gravel rally.

[tommeke_B]

If they are gravel, i don't see why they would be more destroyed than on any other gravel rally.

Maybe you also don't see that other gravel rallies are not driven with studded tires. ;)

[BleAivano]

Time to move north or another country to guarantee a snow rally ?


Are those gravel roads or earth roads?

If they are gravel, i don't see why they would be more destroyed than on any other gravel rally.

In the summer on dry hard roads I would agree but there is a reason that no rallies in Sweden are driven on soaked defrosted gravel roads. The roads are too soft and thus also undriveable.

[Tauri_J]

Maybe you also don't see that other gravel rallies are not driven with studded tires. ;)

And during winter.

[BleAivano]

Do either of the places mentioned above already have rallies in the nearby forests ?

Yes Umeå/Vännas has a Swedish championship round at the end of this month. Östersund have hosted Swedish championship round in previous years.

Some road pics from Vännäs area.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/470088320464315/permalink/660057328134079/

[AnttiL]

Are those gravel roads or earth roads?

If they are gravel, i don't see why they would be more destroyed than on any other gravel rally.

Ask the organizers of Hankiralli 1990. They went bankrupt afterwards. They should have done like Rally Sweden the same year.

[masa90]

So all of those cool wintery pics are from that other non wrc rally? I looked on fb and was glad that there was this miracle happening but I guess not?

[AnttiL]

So all of those cool wintery pics are from that other non wrc rally? I looked on fb and was glad that there was this miracle happening but I guess not?

If you refer to the Enthusiasts of Rally Sweden fb group, today there has been pictures from a place called Lima, only a bit North from Torsby, with roads having perfect winter conditions. They have been shot in order to show the organizers what's available.

[masa90]

Ah ok. Yes I meant that group. My swedish is so bad, that I really need to concentrate to understand it. Here I did not have time so I just browsed the photos. Which looked cool to be honest.

[SubaruNorway]

Are those gravel roads or earth roads?

If they are gravel, i don't see why they would be more destroyed than on any other gravel rally.

This is why.
https://images.app.goo.gl/mdTF5a6DPV6wfRMU6

[BleAivano]

Are those gravel roads or earth roads?

If they are gravel, i don't see why they would be more destroyed than on any other gravel rally.

What happens when the frozen roads start defrost is that the top layer becomes very saturated with water so the road becomes very very soft, almost like a floating surface.
see this picture below (source (http://tps://www.skogskunskap.se/vagar-i-skogen/drift-och-underhall/slitage-nedbrytning-och-skador-pa-vagen/skadekatalogen---vad-kan-vi-gora-at-vagskadorna/)). Now imagine 20-30 rally cars + other official vehicles to drive on a road like this. How many cars would be able to pass before they would get stuck?
Then next question would be how you would remove the cars being stuck (as you cannot drive a heavy vehicle on the road)?

https://www.skogskunskap.se/Large/cd_20161113121004/contentassets/ec5f8198acf64d7caaca03da190ba420/sparbildning-ytuppmjukning_per_hallgren_1200x675px.jpg

[masa90]

Well, while waiting before booking my preferred hotel was completely booked. So I will need to pass this year anyways hah. Either way, I really hope that there will be a rally. I would love to watch it even on tv and that would give hope for there being a rally sweden in 2021.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I think people forget these stages/tracks are actually public roads used by locals. They cant be destroyed.

Similar looking tracks on Rally GB are only used by the Forestry Commission vehicles (for logging etc).

[AnttiL]

Similar looking tracks on Rally GB are only used by the Forestry Commission vehicles (for logging etc).

In GB the roads have a harder stone base. Also, the ground doesn't frost as much during the year.

[Rallyper]

If you refer to the Enthusiasts of Rally Sweden fb group, today there has been pictures from a place called Lima, only a bit North from Torsby, with roads having perfect winter conditions. They have been shot in order to show the organizers what's available.

However liasions will be difficult. And for spectators moving around. Not many big roads are going in east-west direction from northern Värmland to Dalarna.

[Oliverk]

Are those gravel roads or earth roads?

If they are gravel, i don't see why they would be more destroyed than on any other gravel rally.

Because road is so soft. It will get destroyd with 10 cars passing. And if it is wet you cant have big machinery to repait the road. And if it will froze suddenly. Then the road would be fucked till may.

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/saarijarno/status/1224378572489527301?s=21

Shortened route has been proposed. Decision tomorrow at earliest.

[abcrally]

However liasions will be difficult. And for spectators moving around. Not many big roads are going in east-west direction from northern Värmland to Dalarna.

Notice that lot of the sponsor money for the rally comes from Karlstad. If the event is moved to north that sponsorship is gone.
The stages are organized by local motoring clubs and voluntaries. Do they have similar stuff in north?
And surely it would be hard to find enough good stages near the (new possible) Rally HQ /SP.

[Rallyper]

Notice that lot of the sponsor money for the rally comes from Karlstad. If the event is moved to north that sponsorship is gone.
The stages are organized by local motoring clubs and voluntaries. Do they have similar stuff in north?
And surely it would be hard to find enough good stages near the (new possible) Rally HQ /SP.

It should be worked out properly. HQ and stages would become situated much closer to each other than todays Karlstad situation.

[abcrally]

It should be worked out properly. HQ and stages would become situated much closer to each other than todays Karlstad situation.

Karlstad only has SSS and ceremonial start nowadays. Lot has changed but they still sponsor the event.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I heard the hilly north of Sweden has a lot of skiing and the hotels will be booked-up by skiers.

[abcrally]

I heard the hilly north of Sweden has a lot of skiing and the hotels will be booked-up by skiers.

True. No major sponsor money for the rally available from north as the accommodation and restaurants etc would be booked in February anyway.

[BleAivano]

I heard the hilly north of Sweden has a lot of skiing and the hotels will be booked-up by skiers.


True. No major sponsor money for the rally available from north as the accommodation and restaurants etc would be booked in February anyway.

That is true for the western part of central and northern Sweden (in the mountains), like Sälen, Idre, Härjedalen/Vemdalen, Åre..... .
However I don't think there is that much skiing in the Umeå area since that area is relatively flat compared the mountains in the west.

[denkimi]

This is why.
https://images.app.goo.gl/mdTF5a6DPV6wfRMU6

What happens when the frozen roads start defrost is that the top layer becomes very saturated with water so the road becomes very very soft, almost like a floating surface.
see this picture below (source (http://tps://www.skogskunskap.se/vagar-i-skogen/drift-och-underhall/slitage-nedbrytning-och-skador-pa-vagen/skadekatalogen---vad-kan-vi-gora-at-vagskadorna/)). Now imagine 20-30 rally cars + other official vehicles to drive on a road like this. How many cars would be able to pass before they would get stuck?
Then next question would be how you would remove the cars being stuck (as you cannot drive a heavy vehicle on the road)?

https://www.skogskunskap.se/Large/cd_20161113121004/contentassets/ec5f8198acf64d7caaca03da190ba420/sparbildning-ytuppmjukning_per_hallgren_1200x675px.jpg
So they are not gravel roads. They are just frozen dirt.

That was all in needed to know.

[AnttiL]

A road like that is a mix of stones, gravel, clay and soil. When dry in the summer or frozen in the winter, it can be as hard as tarmac.

[BleAivano]

So they are not gravel roads. They are just frozen dirt.

That was all in needed to know.

No, they are gravel roads just like the one in the pic below. As I said the situation in the pic above is what happens when the road has been frozen (and covered with snow) but have defrosted.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Swedish_road_BD613.jpg

[SubaruNorway]

So they are not gravel roads. They are just frozen dirt.

That was all in needed to know.

Google thaw and read, stop being so ignorant.

[Tarmop]

Stupidity has no limits...well, quite common actually, when only familiar with tarmac roads...
In reality these roads don`t even need a rally to become deteriorated, normal traffic with small cars will do...and those cars with their drivers have to manage and live there.

[Myrvold]

I should say Östersund or Umeå.

Both are big enough cities hosting the rally. No lack of snow and absoulutely stunning stagematerial. (Östersund doesn´t really compete with Åre on hotelbeds)

You don't even need to move it that much north, if they just skip the Karlstad trip, and chooses stages that's a bit higher up in the terrain.

[KKS]

I agree. Both also have have good connections with Stockholm by air and train. Umeå is a quit large city (130'000 in the municipality) while Östersund is about half the size of Umeå and quite a bit smaller then Karlstad.
Östersund is a bit closer to Stockholm by car and mighty attract more spectators from Norway. Umeå might attract less Norwegians but more Finnish spectators with the ferry between Umeå and Vasa (Finland).
Umeå probably have more hotels/restaurants in the actual city while Östersund probably have hotels in the vicinity although many of those are more skiing resorts.
Just make an Arctic Lapland Rally a WRC event and snow rally problem will solved for years

[KKS]

1. Roads will be destroyed
2. Gravel tyres don't work in ~0°C conditions. They would need a "supersoft" option.
3. I believe the cars still have to use winter tyres in Sweden on the road sections due to traffic legislations.
1. I think studded tyre will destroy road faster and harder than gravel tyre in similar +5C conditions.
2. But they work perfectly in Wales, even with some snow, even with low temp ~+5C
3. So traffic rules it's only problem for do that.

[KKS]

https://twitter.com/MadsOstberg/status/1224404198726553607


Mads Østberg
@MadsOstberg
4h
Approx 40kms from Torsby, 16 km from Likenäs

For now it's perfect rally weather/time

[EstWRC]

Mads Østberg
@MadsOstberg
4h
Approx 40kms from Torsby, 16 km from Likenäs

For now it's perfect rally weather/time


This is it. Quickly move all the stages there :D

[Franky]

1. I think studded tyre will destroy road faster and harder than gravel tyre in similar +5C conditions.

If the road is soft/mushy, it really doesn't matter what tyre exactly.

[AnttiL]

2. But they work perfectly in Wales, even with some snow, even with low temp ~+5C


When is the last time Wales Rally GB has had any snow? The tyre regulations in the 90's were completely different, options were endless.

[AnttiL]

This is it. Quickly move all the stages there :D

That's definitely what they must consider for the following years. Besides, I'd love to get a stage called Anttila in a WRC event :D

[atsiotras79]

When is the last time Wales Rally GB has had any snow? The tyre regulations in the 90's were completely different, options were endless.

In 1996 when it was counting only for F2 (Blomqvist-Felicia fireworks) the SSs in the North were like Sweden and they were using snow tyres... Nice days...

[AnttiL]

In 1996 when it was counting only for F2 (Blomqvist-Felicia fireworks) the SSs in the North were like Sweden and they were using snow tyres... Nice days...

Yeah I actually just watched a video from that recently. In fact, back then they were allowed to use the very narrow snow tyres which are not used anymore. Like I said, back then there was an endless array of tyre types and compounds. You could always find a match for every weather.

[EstWRC]

Representatives from Rally Sweden, the FIA and WRC Promoter held yesterday (3 February) further discussions regarding the status of the second round of the FIA World Rally Championship, due to take place in the Värmland region of Sweden and across the border in Norway on 13 - 16 February.

Snow has fallen in the rally region in recent days. But the unseasonably warm weather and current weather forecasts continue to provide concerns as to the suitability of the roads in the special stages to allow the event to go ahead as planned.

Further alignment with the manufacturer teams will take place and the FIA will conduct an onsite inspection of the stages at the beginning of this week.

To enhance the WRC event conditions, the Rally Sweden Historic event has therefore been cancelled.

– We continue to examine every possible way to ensure the rally goes ahead. The conditions are being monitored constantly and the situation will be re-evaluated with any decisions required to be made this week, says Rally Sweden CEO Glenn Olsson.


doesnt sound very promising to me, taken from Rally Sweden FB account

[Tauri_J]

They're praying for the forecast to change.

[masa90]

Looks really bad. Shame for all who have bought trips there to see the rally.

[swanny]

I was feeling dumb for missing it again this year (flying out on the 14th :rolleyes:) - I guess we'll see if that is true or not.

[AnttiL]

Looks really bad. Shame for all who have bought trips there to see the rally.

and all drivers who gathered a budget to have a showcase run. Predominantly Latvala. Breen was also given a rare chance. Many R5 drivers as well for sure. Of course not all expenses will realize, but there's always something that cannot be refunded, and nothing brings back the time and effort used for preparing the event, getting sponsors etc.

And what happens if the rally is run at half length? Spectators will pay for a trip and see half the action? Sponsors will get half the exposure? If the roads are in bad shape the private cars later in the starting order won't have a chance.

[tommeke_B]

Let's also not forget this:

For full points you need at least 75% of the event to be run.
For half points you need at least 50% of the event to be run.
For 1/3 points you need at least 25% of the event to be run.

For full points they need to gather 225,63km SS. They could cancel both Karlstad superstages, Torsby 1, one whole loop of saturday + Torsby sprint, and still have enough kms. They could also cancel both runs of Hagfors and run Vargasen twice, and still get the mileage, but only just (225,69kms). If saturday is completely lost, there's no way they can get 75% and then the event will count for only half the points, making it less interesting especially for WRC2/3 crews.

[Luis Pacheco]

I'm very disappointed. It now remains to search for tourist spots in Sweden and Norway ...

[AnttiL]

The four most Northern stages are ~20 km each. Running each of them twice would make about 160 km, which is just above 50%.

[tommeke_B]

What I made up, which would be the absolute minimum for the event to count for maximum points.

Friday:
SS2 - Hof - Finnskog 1
SS3 - Finnskogen 1
SS4 - Nyckelvattnet 1

SS5 - Hof-Finnskog 2
SS6 - Finnskogen 2
SS7 - Nyckelvattnet 2

Saturday:
SS9 - Torntorp 1
SS11 - Vargasen 1
SS14 - Vargasen 2 (WRC and WRC2 cars only)

Sunday:
SS17 - Likenäs 1
SS18 - Likenäs 2
SS19 - PS Torsby

= 225,79km SS (75,05% of the original route)

[skarderud]

The historic part are cancelled.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[KKS]

If the road is soft/mushy, it really doesn't matter what tyre exactly.
Yep, it's true but how many those type of road have Rally Sweden? It's been more common to EastEurope stage, and I guess all Sweden stages was on hard base with rocky surface.

[KKS]

When is the last time Wales Rally GB has had any snow? The tyre regulations in the 90's were completely different, options were endless.
2008 for example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4DvzwHX2Cg

[AnttiL]

What I made up, which would be the absolute minimum for the event to count for maximum points.

Friday:
SS2 - Hof - Finnskog 1
SS3 - Finnskogen 1
SS4 - Nyckelvattnet 1

SS5 - Hof-Finnskog 2
SS6 - Finnskogen 2
SS7 - Nyckelvattnet 2

Saturday:
SS9 - Torntorp 1
SS11 - Vargasen 1
SS14 - Vargasen 2 (WRC and WRC2 cars only)

Sunday:
SS17 - Likenäs 1
SS18 - Likenäs 2
SS19 - PS Torsby

= 225,79km SS (75,05% of the original route)

Hard to see Vargåsen being run with no snow. Torntorp should have the same problem. Torsby probably driven once anyway.

[AnttiL]

2008 for example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4DvzwHX2Cg

Just a small bit of snow on the side of the road. I don't remember the history of the tyre regulations, when did we start regulating the tyres like we do today? Maybe they had more compounds back then?

[rallyfiend]

Just a small bit of snow on the side of the road. I don't remember the history of the tyre regulations, when did we start regulating the tyres like we do today? Maybe they had more compounds back then?

That was the first year of the Pirelli single tyre supply.

The had the choice of 'black and round' only.

[tommeke_B]

Hard to see Vargåsen being run with no snow. Torntorp should have the same problem. Torsby probably driven once anyway.

It all depends on the conditions on the day itself. If the road is frozen, it could be ok to run. I think running 75% is going to be the absolute minimum to get an agreement with the FIA and manufacturers. But with the current forecast I expect it to be completely cancelled. Sad for all those who booked, including myself.

[AndyRAC]

That was the first year of the Pirelli single tyre supply.

The had the choice of 'black and round' only.

If I remember correctly, they picked the tyres a long while before the event, which ran in early December. So when the snow arrived in the week before, the tyres allocated were unsuitable - a lot of the first day was cancelled, though Sweetlamb was run, and Ogier set his first WRCar fastest time. I was at Hafren, it was quite icy and they came past in the morning as a 'road section'....
Saying that, it wasn't just the wrong tyres that caused the cancelled stages - the various safety vehicles were unable to get through the stage because of ice. The Sat & Sun were a lot better and ran okay.

[Aquagen]

it seems that we'll have

Friday:
SS2 - Hof - Finnskog 1
SS3 - Finnskogen 1
SS4 - Nyckelvattnet 1

Sunday:
SS17 - Likenäs 1

and 28% and 1/3 points

[MartijnS]

Why run 4 stages...
Press conference starts now I read.

[Rallyper]

Time to drink beer in the meantime...

[rallyfiend]

it seems that we'll have

Friday:
SS2 - Hof - Finnskog 1
SS3 - Finnskogen 1
SS4 - Nyckelvattnet 1

Sunday:
SS17 - Likenäs 1

and 28% and 1/3 points

There's no way anyone - including the FIA - could agree to that. Not for the amount of money spent to get everyone and everything there.
That smells like a male cow's faeces

[AnttiL]

it seems that we'll have

Friday:
SS2 - Hof - Finnskog 1
SS3 - Finnskogen 1
SS4 - Nyckelvattnet 1

Sunday:
SS17 - Likenäs 1

and 28% and 1/3 points

This was posted today by an Estonian rally site. Let's wait for official announcements soon.

[Katvala]

I intended to go this year too, but with the insecurity of the rally taking place at all, and the forecast not looking good, I decided to make other plans instead.

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

[dck1989]

it seems that we'll have

Friday:
SS2 - Hof - Finnskog 1
SS3 - Finnskogen 1
SS4 - Nyckelvattnet 1

Sunday:
SS17 - Likenäs 1

and 28% and 1/3 points

If this was ran, it would just cause another problems with the amount of spectators fitting into a small area?

[tommeke_B]

No, that would be the same as if they run those stages twice.

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/SaariJarno/status/1224685829299298305

Should be more than 80 km

[tommeke_B]

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/varmland/presskonferens-for-tv-sporten

So again, no real news (yet)...

[Aquagen]

So, according press-conference depending on the weather we will have 12 SS or cancellation.

[the sniper]

I intended to go this year too, but with the insecurity of the rally taking place at all, and the forecast not looking good, I decided to make other plans instead.

I've wanted to do it for years and this year I'm off work, so could have gone. I didn't commit to it in the end though because there's too much of a risk of a complete non-event. Just another problem for the Rally Sweden organisers, even if they do get some good cold/snowy years in future, increasingly how many foreign spectators (and their money) will they lose because people don't want to take the risk of financially committing to such a vulnerable event.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Unless they can move it north to ensure the weather the future of this WRC event looks really bleak. In its current location its another victim of climate change.

[AnttiL]

So, according press-conference depending on the weather we will have 12 SS or cancellation.

I hope you're not reading this 2016 news article which is circulating today https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2505&artikel=6363601

Media literacy, people...

AFAIK no decision has been made yet

[Alex009]

So, according press-conference depending on the weather we will have 12 SS or cancellation.

Where did you find this info?

[Aquagen]

Oh my. Sorry

[masa90]

I intended to go this year too, but with the insecurity of the rally taking place at all, and the forecast not looking good, I decided to make other plans instead.

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk


The same decision here.

But surely that 4 stage rally cant be real? What a joke that would be, especially to wait one full day and then just one stage on Sunday?

[AnttiL]

The same decision here.

But surely that 4 stage rally cant be real? What a joke that would be, especially to wait one full day and then just one stage on Sunday?

It is not. Do not believe everything you see on random websites.

[KKS]

If I remember correctly, they picked the tyres a long while before the event, which ran in early December. So when the snow arrived in the week before, the tyres allocated were unsuitable - a lot of the first day was cancelled, though Sweetlamb was run, and Ogier set his first WRCar fastest time. I was at Hafren, it was quite icy and they came past in the morning as a 'road section'....
Saying that, it wasn't just the wrong tyres that caused the cancelled stages - the various safety vehicles were unable to get through the stage because of ice. The Sat & Sun were a lot better and ran okay.
So we have an example of using gravel tyres in frozen condition with temp around 0C. So for warm Sweden with +5C...+10C it must be quite OK. I don't know how it will be from regulation side, but from promoter and spectator side it better run warm Rally Sweden with gravel tyres rather than cancel it all.

[masa90]

So we have an example of using gravel tyres in frozen condition with temp around 0C. So for warm Sweden with +5C...+10C it must be quite OK. I don't know how it will be from regulation side, but from promoter and spectator side it better run warm Rally Sweden with gravel tyres rather than cancel it all.

The roads would be utterly destroyed. It has been said here already. Same gravel based roads here have gone completely mudlike on these temps already. And that is under normal cars and normal speeds. Under rallying they would be completely gone and propably everyone would not even make it trough.

[Rallyper]

I guess the meeting is still going on...

[katxal]

Could someone translate this please?

https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid093&artikel=7400968

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Glenn Olsson: "Working to get a rally in some form"

Published at 15.33

Next week the Swedish Rally will start, but the mild winter has threatened the competitions.
Right now, according to Svenska Rallyts CEO Glenn Olsson, you do everything you can to keep the competitions in Värmland.

As it looks, the races will be run as planned and no stretches have been cleared, however, the historic class has been canceled.

[katxal]

Could someone translate this please?

https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid093&artikel=7400968

Its a various minutes audio...maybe some more info inside...please swedish friends, little translate.

[Rallyper]

Well, I should say, even if I was a bit negative the other day, if, and it´s if, they are lucky the roads will be frozen enough to manage to get the field through.

Having said that, it depends on minusdegrees over nights the time around the rally. Remember we had these conditions before, not only this decade, but also several decades ago. So wish them good luck.

Forecasts looks just a tiny bit better for racedays...

[BigWorm]

Its a various minutes audio...maybe some more info inside...please swedish friends, little translate.

Not so much new info, they want to find solutions so the rally can take place somehow. He seems resigned to the probabilities of not a lot of snow for the rally weekend.

[mousti]

Grégoire Munster withdraws his participation

https://www.dhnet.be/sports/moteurs/wrc/wrc-munster-jr-renonce-a-la-suede-5e3971fdf20d5a652104775d

Verstuurd vanaf mijn ONEPLUS A6013 met Tapatalk

[Got Mail]

Grégoire Munster withdraws his participation

https://www.dhnet.be/sports/moteurs/wrc/wrc-munster-jr-renonce-a-la-suede-5e3971fdf20d5a652104775d

Verstuurd vanaf mijn ONEPLUS A6013 met Tapatalk

Pretty sensible decision.

If the event goes to half points - how would that work with nominated rounds?

I can't see an easy solution.

[pantealex]

About that 25 50 75% rule

Which document decide how many KiloMeters is 100% ?

RallyGuide2 ? or some older document ?
Asking because those stages are canceled before rally not during it.

[Rallyper]

Grégoire Munster withdraws his participation

https://www.dhnet.be/sports/moteurs/wrc/wrc-munster-jr-renonce-a-la-suede-5e3971fdf20d5a652104775d

Verstuurd vanaf mijn ONEPLUS A6013 met Tapatalk

No big loss.

[pantealex]

No big loss.

In reality yes but he was leading WRC3 among of Rally Sweden entries (10 points from Monte)

[Myrvold]

No big loss.

The more cars the better in my mind. That's at least how I've felt when I've been spectating for the last 10 years.

[TypeR]

To me it's logical move.. why to spend all the money on half ass event.. better keep it to some proper events

[Entertainer]

Damn there are some negative people in this thread.. depending on which weather service you use, it looks ok or half-bad. This is not an ordinary situation, but it's the one we have to work with.

+ Plenty of minus degrees at Likenäs, Östmark and Kirkenaer in the next couple of days, according to weather services. Then a couple of days of +1-2 degrees, and then back to -3 to -5 for the rally week. These three towns are all close to friday and sunday stages.
Ground frost and snow are present in all stages these two days. (EDIT, expect Torsby, of course) These should all be perfectly capable of being run, if weather services are correct.

- The trouble is saturday, where they need to water plenty the next four days, where temps will be -2 to -5 during the nights, to deepen ground frost and to make it last during warmer days in the weekend, and then back to -1 to -4 during nights at rally weekend. These will be difficult to keep maintained, and maybe they will be driven only once, who knows.

I say 25% chance to be run completely, and 75% chance to be run maybe a little shortened, due to saturday "situation"...

[AnttiL]

- The trouble is saturday, where they need to water plenty the next four days, where temps will be -2 to -5 during the nights, to deepen ground frost and to make it last during warmer days in the weekend, and then back to -1 to -4 during nights at rally weekend. .

The forecasts I'm looking at don't show any minus degrees (or maybe -1°C here and there) in the rally area after tomorrow. There's also going to be some rain on the weekend.

Like I've said before, I think the four northmost stages (Hof-Finnskog, Finnskogen, Nyckelvattnet and Likenäs) are fine, but the rest are uncertain.

[dimviii]

where is bluuford when you need him?

[MartijnS]

https://rallysweden.com/en/green-light-for-rally-sweden/

[AnttiL]

180 km route

[EstWRC]

hekk yeah!

[masa90]

So they will drive the same route on friday and saturday ?

Either way I am happy if they are able to run it. My weather service still says really gloom stuff about it, but if fia and others say it is ok I count on them.

[BigWorm]

And full points.

[KKS]

The rally will include competitive action on all four days as originally scheduled....
...Saturday will follow an identical route (as Friday)

oh those PR (((

[mknight]

As it is written now the text doesn't make much sense. They say that they should run friday stages again on saturday but that alone is some 200 km + Likenås on Sunday is much more than 180 in total.

[EstWRC]

yeah i dont get that part too

[AnttiL]

AFAIK the route will be

Thursday
SSS1 Karlstad

Friday
SS2 Hof-Finnskog 1
SS3 Finnskogen 1
SS4 Nyckelvattnet 1
SS5 Torsby Sprint 1

Saturday
SS6 Hof-Finnskog 2
SS7 Finnskogen 2
SS8 Nyckelvattnet 2
SS9 Torsby Sprint 2

Sunday
SS10 Likenäs 1
SS11 Likenäs 2 (Power stage)

[rallyfiend]

I assume they mean a single pass each day.

Give the road a chance to re-freeze overnight.

[AnttiL]

As it is written now the text doesn't make much sense. They say that they should run friday stages again on saturday but that alone is some 200 km + Likenås on Sunday is much more than 180 in total.

They don't repeat the Friday stages on Friday.

[AnttiL]

I wrote quickly something to my blog: http://itgetsfasternow.com/2020/02/04/rally-sweden-2020-route-altered/

[henzo]

Atleast theyre now going ahead with the event, it can either go really bad or really good, cause weather is unpredictable.
imagine the frustration if the even was cancelled and there would be -10c during the weekend and snow..

[EstWRC]

let the testing begin now from tomorrow on!

[AnttiL]

AFAIK the route will be

Thursday
SSS1 Karlstad

Friday
SS2 Hof-Finnskog 1
SS3 Finnskogen 1
SS4 Nyckelvattnet 1
SS5 Torsby Sprint 1

Saturday
SS6 Hof-Finnskog 2
SS7 Finnskogen 2
SS8 Nyckelvattnet 2
SS9 Torsby Sprint 2

Sunday
SS10 Likenäs 1
SS11 Likenäs 2 (Power stage)

When I put this together it makes up 171 km so maybe Torsby Sprint is a bit longer than planned or something? Anyway, they would need 225 km for full points but maybe they have a deal with FIA since it's a force majeure, and the points will be reduced from anything they cancel from this ie. 171 km is 100% and if two long stages are cancelled, it's down to 75% etc.

[mknight]

Well this seems a bit radical still. Looking at some of the weather forecasts and current thin layer of snow it looked like some of the Saturday stages could be run once at least. Cancelling all of them 1,5 week ahead is rather drastic. But I guess they don't want to end up with a Saturday that has no stages at all.

[Allez Andruet]

So much better than cancelling the whole event. Under these circumstances I'm more than happy with 180km.

Just unleash JML!

[henzo]

My forecast shows -4/-9 the week after the rally... unfortunate..
But maybe it will change, lets hope so!

[Tauri_J]

Lol they are still running Karlstad. Would be "fun" with zero ice and snow.

[AnttiL]

Lol they are still running Karlstad. Would be "fun" with zero ice and snow.

It will be a mudbath. Maybe they calculated it's better to rebuild the area than cancel the biggest spectator attraction (and bring the rally to Karlstad, which is its financial partner)

[KKS]

And this all stages that not cancel yet. Changing weather and all could be worse. Statement now that they try to do an event and not cancel a rest of 180km stages.
PS If it will be national event it will be canceled 100%

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Anything is better than no rally. Hope it works out with the revised route.

[er88]

Unlikely I know, but say the weather takes a turn for the better, could they again alter the itinerary to include the Swedish stages? Or even one pass of them?

It would be a bit of a kick in the teeth to have some originally planned iconic stages left out, when it turns out by rally weekend they could easily be run (at least once).

[mknight]

Unlikely I know, but say the weather takes a turn for the better, could they again alter the itinerary to include the Swedish stages? Or even one pass of them?

It would be a bit of a kick in the teeth to have some originally planned iconic stages left out, when it turns out by rally weekend they could easily be run (at least once).

I don't think so, cause now that it was announced they won't be run they will stop all work on them (watering). Without that weather would have to change a lot for them to run even after nobody cared about them until the start.

[GigiGalliNo1]

"FIA inspection confirms rally goes ahead!"

https://rallysweden.com/green-light-for-rally-sweden/

"Article:

FIA inspection confirms rally goes ahead.

Next week’s Rally Sweden (13 – 16 February), the second round of the FIA World Rally Championship, will go ahead following a positive inspection of the event route by the FIA on Tuesday.

Following unseasonably warm weather in the Värmland region of Sweden and across the border in Norway, FIA sporting delegate Timo Rautiainen inspected the special stages to check the conditions for the WRC’s only pure winter round.

His report was discussed by Rally Sweden organisers, the FIA, WRC Promoter and manufacturer teams this evening (Tuesday) and a route proposal has been agreed.

The rally will include competitive action on all four days as originally scheduled, with a modified itinerary to be finalised by organisers. The new timetable will feature about 180km of spectacular speed tests and full championship points will be awarded.

The rally will open on Thursday night with the traditional start ceremony and head-to-head special stage at the fan-favourite Karlstad trotting track.

Friday will feature a morning pass over Norway’s Hof-Finnskog and Finnskogen stages and the Nyckelvattnet test across the border in Sweden. The day will be completed by the Torsby Sprint stage, which finishes at the entrance to the popular event service park.

Saturday will follow an identical route and two passes over the Likenas stage will complete the event on Sunday. The second run through Likenas will form the live TV Wolf Power Stage.

“It’s fantastic to be able to confirm Rally Sweden will go ahead,” said event CEO Glenn Olsson.

“Many people have worked extremely hard over the last few days so that we can reach this position, and I’m delighted that fans, TV viewers and competitors will be able to enjoy one of the WRC’s most spectacular and fastest fixtures.

“We will welcome fans into the forests as planned. Those who are unable to attend the event in person will be able to enjoy live global TV coverage on Saturday and Sunday, as well as the live streaming of all stages on WRC+ All Live.”

[stefanvv]

1. Roads will be destroyed
2. Gravel tyres don't work in ~0°C conditions. They would need a "supersoft" option.
3. I believe the cars still have to use winter tyres in Sweden on the road sections due to traffic legislations.

I didn't know that about the gravel tyres. They can still use the same tyres just rip off the studs, I think it was some edition in 90's when drivers just got rid of their studs quickly. All that is good but destroyning the roards is not sounding well, we'll have a winter "Safari".

[dimviii]

Fredrik Gustavsson
@F_Gustavsson
·
1h
Has been an agreement between the teams to give full points

[bluuford]

where is bluuford when you need him?

Well, I have worked with Rally Sweden forecast for at least last two weeks already (actually I started in Monte already). Initially it looked quite impossible, but on Monday morning I suggested that the only way it might work is to cancel all Saturday stages and run Friday leg in two mornings (cooler, some overnight freezing etc.) and Sunday stages as it was, depending on the conditions in Torsby stage.

Another suggestion is to start recce on Wednesday. So, if you plan to go and recce the stages, please avoid Sunday, Monday and Tuesday (maybe only early in the morning). There is some overnight frost, but likely not enough to recover from weekend rain and risk of destroying the roads is very-very high. There should be enough cold on Tuesday night to Wednesday, to make roads more solid. So, please try to be sensible!

In general, I would say that organizers have taken some proper risk, but this is the best and safest solution you can take for this year event.

And distance, 100% distance is decided before the rally starts (not sure at what point exactly, but I think it was before recce). Now, this 75% will be from this new itinerary. Of-course, FIA must agree with shortened route, but if it is like this, Force Majore, there is no other option.

[SubaruNorway]

Heard it was -12 in Øyermoen tonight just south of Nyckelvattnet and old Svullrya stage, something like -4 more than what was forecasted, If we are lucky there could be 10cm of snow in the area on Sunday/Monday, on the limit between rain and snow if you look up Svullrya on Yr.

[DocMS]

Which of the 3 stages on friday/Saturday is the highest above sea level with the most likely best winter conditions? Any recommendations for new viewing points?

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[skarderud]

Heard one of the stagecommanders was stuck inside one of the saturday stages because of mud, its not going to be drivable with the forecasts next week.

Good decision, norway saves sweedes a$$!:)

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[dupanton]

In the fear of the event getting cancelled, Belgian Gregoire Munster withdraw from the rally. He will start another round, probably Portugal.

[bearclaw]

...and what about shakedown? canceled as well?

[EstWRC]

...and what about shakedown? canceled as well?

https://twitter.com/f_gustavsson/status/1224842504878596097?s=21

Although I don’t know how reliable it is

[Rallyper]

In reality yes but he was leading WRC3 among of Rally Sweden entries (10 points from Monte)

If you want to win, you have to participate. Even when it´s ruff. ;)

[skarderud]

https://www.facebook.com/1339843801/posts/10217022903948347/?sfnsn=mo&d=n&vh=i

Hyundai PET, maybe Tänak?

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[HarriK]

https://www.facebook.com/1339843801/posts/10217022903948347/?sfnsn=mo&d=n&vh=i


Hyundai PET, maybe Tänak?

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk
Link not working

[AnttiL]

Breen tested today

[Luis Pacheco]

Have any member of the forum, not Nordic, already received the rallye pass by postal mail?

[DocMS]

Have any member of the forum, not Nordic, already received the rallye pass by postal mail?Ive contacted them multiple times as nothing received yet. They have told me if dont arrive by weekend to contact them and they will arrange passes to be collected in Sweden for me. Nothing new to be honest. The service they use for last few years always the same.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[linni]

Rally passes were shipped on week 5, this is last week.
I only received mine today.

[McTony]

Haven't received mine either (Scotland)

[mknight]

Waiting for itinerary...

I guess they will keep the 3 stages together both because they want to run them while it's frozen in the morning and to avoid everyone moving between them.
At least on Friday that should be the case, maybe on Saturday they split a bit cause it will be "last" pass on the stages, but that still keeps the problem of too many people moving between them.

[linni]

They used to use DHL, but now they are using smaller couriers, which is obviously slower.

[masa90]

Rautiainen wasn't as positive on the Finnish news. But, like he predicted almost surely we will get some running at least.

[Meekefan]

I did not also receive my tickets. I live in Portugal. I hope they arrive no later than next Tueseday.

[SubaruNorway]

I'm sure you will have your tickets by Friday/Monday, got mine in Norway today.

Looks good around Svullrya which is not too far from the end of Finnskog and start of Nyckelvattnet https://www.yr.no/sted/Norge/Innlandet/Grue/Svullrya/

[df93]

Supposing the stages are all in the morning on Friday and Saturday, can anyone recommended things to do in the afternoon around the Torsby area? Willing to travel too.

[BleAivano]

Supposing the stages are all in the morning on Friday and Saturday, can anyone recommended things to do in the afternoon around the Torsby area? Willing to travel too.

There is a ski tunnel in Torsby so you could practice your cross country skiing skills. ;)

[linni]

Service park and then find a good spot for the evening SS.
Not much to do in Torsby.

[satukata]

[QUOTE=SubaruNorway;1241578]I'm sure you will have your tickets by Friday/Monday, got mine in Norway today.

got mine in Jyväskylä Finland today

[AnttiL]

Rautiainen wasn't as positive on the Finnish news. But, like he predicted almost surely we will get some running at least.

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-11193665

Here are the main points

- Rautiainen and Grönholm drove through the four northmost stages
- They thought rally is driveable under the conditions they saw - far from ideal but roads should withstand and it should be safe
- Studs will come off, drivers will need to have enough tyres
- Tyres should be changed in the middle of the day, either with tyre zone or return to service, otherwise he thinks it's not safe
- Frost is not deep but the surface is hard. There will be ruts on the second pass but the roads will withstand it
- If there's heavy plus degrees and rain, the second passes will be canceled, because the FWD cars can't pass through the roads
- Difficult to believe it would be canceled altogether anymore
- WRC rules article 3.3.3 states that the shortened rally points principle can have exceptions if the conditions are exceptional, and this a such case

[Luis Pacheco]

I just received a message from DHL informing the arrival of the Rally Pass on Wednesday. Tuesday night I'll be traveling to Sweden ...

[AnttiL]

https://www.dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/opinion-david-evans-on-swedens-big-decision/

[EstWRC]

Itinerary out now https://rallysweden.com/en/the-race/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Could they have scrapped Shakedown and used Skalla to give the rally two more stages ?

[AnttiL]

Itinerary out now https://rallysweden.com/en/the-race/

Thursday
9.00 SD Skalla
20.08 SSS1 Karlstad

Friday
8.42 SS2 Hof-Finnskog 1
10.08 SS3 Finnskogen 1
11.08 SS4 Nyckelvattnet 1
15.00 SS8 Torsby Sprint 1

Saturday
8.42 SS5 Hof-Finnskog 2
10.08 SS6 Finnskogen 2
11.08 SS7 Nyckelvattnet 2
15.00 SS16 Torsby Sprint 2

Sunday
10.08 SS17 Likenäs 1
12.18 SS18 Likenäs 2 (Power stage)

Weird stage numbering...cannot be updated anymore?

[rallyfiend]

Thursday
9.00 SD Skalla
20.08 SSS1 Karlstad

Friday
8.42 SS2 Hof-Finnskog 1
10.08 SS3 Finnskogen 1
11.08 SS4 Nyckelvattnet 1
15.00 SS8 Torsby Sprint 1

Saturday
8.42 SS5 Hof-Finnskog 2
10.08 SS6 Finnskogen 2
11.08 SS7 Nyckelvattnet 2
15.00 SS16 Torsby Sprint 2

Sunday
10.08 SS10 Likenäs 1
12.18 SS11 Likenäs 2 (Power stage)

Weird stage numbering...cannot be updated anymore?

I guess it is match with Safety Plans and other documents that would be already with Police, Ambulance, rescue etc.

It removes any question of doubt.

[AnttiL]

Yeah, that's it. Also, printed road books and other documents are usable as they are for the remaining stages.

[Rallyper]

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-11193665

Here are the main points

- Rautiainen and Grönholm drove through the four northmost stages
- They thought rally is driveable under the conditions they saw - far from ideal but roads should withstand and it should be safe
- Studs will come off, drivers will need to have enough tyres
- Tyres should be changed in the middle of the day, either with tyre zone or return to service, otherwise he thinks it's not safe
- Frost is not deep but the surface is hard. There will be ruts on the second pass but the roads will withstand it
- If there's heavy plus degrees and rain, the second passes will be canceled, because the FWD cars can't pass through the roads
- Difficult to believe it would be canceled altogether anymore
- WRC rules article 3.3.3 states that the shortened rally points principle can have exceptions if the conditions are exceptional, and this a such case

If full studded rallytyres are allowed on recce (are they?) I would recommend standard winter tyres with ordinary studs instead.

[AnttiL]

If full studded rallytyres are allowed on recce (are they?) I would recommend standard winter tyres with ordinary studs instead.

Supplementary regulations says:


7.2 STUDDED TYRES FOR RECONNAISSANCE
Studded tyres may be used during reconnaissance. They must be in conformity with the
following regulations (see also Appendix 7):
• The studs shall be solid, cylindrical and flatcut
• The length of the stud is limited to 15 millimeters
• The weight of the stud is limited to 2,5 grams
• The maximum overhang is limited to 2,0 millimetres
• The studs must be mounted into the tyre from the outside
• The number of studs must not exceed 250 per tyre
• The body of the stud must be solid
Any infringement to this rule will be reported to the Stewards, who will consider a penalty
according to the International Sporting Code Art. 12.

[Thousandlakes]

Why they just allow gravel tires (most fitted) on those roads which dont have any snow. Some pics looked like there is total "summer" gravel roads. Why cannot make this half gravel rally?? dont need to cancel all the stages. Dont think that would be too hard for organisers (FIA). They had now more than two weeks time to solve this problem. At least As long as they cannot move this rally to northern Sweden. just wondering...

[SubaruNorway]

Could they have scrapped Shakedown and used Skalla to give the rally two more stages ?

No point in that when we can see all cars 3-5 times in shakedown, wasn't a lot of ice in there so risky putting in the rally anyway. Looks like 9 stages pluss shakedown is possible if you do Karlstad

[cali]

Why they just allow gravel tires (most fitted) on those roads which dont have any snow. Some pics looked like there is total "summer" gravel roads. Why cannot make this half gravel rally?? dont need to cancel all the stages. Dont think that would be too hard for organisers (FIA). They had now more than two weeks time to solve this problem. At least As long as they cannot move this rally to northern Sweden. just wondering...Here we go again....

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

[Tauri_J]

Why they just allow gravel tires (most fitted) on those roads which dont have any snow. Some pics looked like there is total "summer" gravel roads. Why cannot make this half gravel rally?? dont need to cancel all the stages. Dont think that would be too hard for organisers (FIA). They had now more than two weeks time to solve this problem. At least As long as they cannot move this rally to northern Sweden. just wondering...

Jesus christ, again. This deserves N.O.T kind of reply.

[Rallyper]

Supplementary regulations says:

Ok. Then most of the stages will be destroyed 20-50% before the rally even starts... :(

[dimviii]

https://www.dirtfish.com/rally/kristoffersson-rally-sweden-entry-cant-be-at-any-cost/

[Meekefan]

I just received a message from DHL informing the arrival of the Rally Pass on Wednesday. Tuesday night I'll be traveling to Sweden ...

My tickets arrived today and was expected to arrive tomorrow. Then, maybe you get your tickets one day before than expected.

[Gregor-y]

Six routes with five run twice for a total of eleven stages. I hope there are plans for next year that keep this from happening again, whatever they may be.

[EstWRC]

check the conditions for Tänak in the afternoon at his PET https://twitter.com/F_Gustavsson/status/1225435049950162946?s=20

[BleAivano]

Six routes with five run twice for a total of eleven stages. I hope there are plans for next year that keep this from happening again, whatever they may be.

Well if there are why haven't anything been done already?

[Gregor-y]

I hope they plan to make plans to address this kind of problem next year.

My local January rally announced they're moving to February after a few years of lackluster snow.

[satukata]

Looking for nice places ss2 ss3 and ss4. Rallyper? Subarunorway?

[henzo]

https://youtu.be/Inbt5oSA7no
Looks like Tänak and Järveoja have no hesitations from the crash!

[pantealex]

Looks like 9 stages is possible if you do Karlstad

Our group is doing ( =planning ) that (skipping 2nd stage of Friday/Saturday)

[DocMS]

Our group is doing ( =planning ) that (skipping 2nd stage of Friday/Saturday)Would it be possible to squeeze in more than 2 stages on Friday/Saturday now without having to walk for miles?

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[SubaruNorway]

Would it be possible to squeeze in more than 2 stages on Friday/Saturday now without having to walk for miles?

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

Should be, but not much is known about Nyckelvattnet. Considering trying to find someone who will ride a bike or moped through and film it since most of it is blocked I'm hearing. Need to check some entry roads because it might get full on P1 and 2. From what i remember the road by the finish is not very wide and why it's no parking there, you have to go slow when passing someone from what i can remember from using it as a shortcut to Svullrya. Parking by the start should be ok, you could also drive into the start of old Röjden just 200m across the lake.

[mknight]

Nyckelvattnet sounds and looks on the maps like a recipe for big spectator issues on the approaches, especially with the revised schedule, as you say pretty much the only area where you can get later is near the start.
I'll probably just pass and go only for one stage (one of the other 2), especially on Saturday.

[Entertainer]

I hope they plan to make plans to address this kind of problem next year.

My local January rally announced they're moving to February after a few years of lackluster snow.


It's the promoters and FIA that chose the dates, not the organisers. They have said NUMEROUS times in media and interview that if it were their choice, the rally would be in january or at the absolute latest a week earlier than this year.

(That wouldn't have helped this year though, as practically ALL of Scandinavia has had warmer weather this winter than in many many years...)
Next year should be "normal" again with snow and ice.

[DocMS]

Should be, but not much is known about Nyckelvattnet. Considering trying to find someone who will ride a bike or moped through and film it since most of it is blocked I'm hearing. Need to check some entry roads because it might get full on P1 and 2. From what i remember the road by the finish is not very wide and why it's no parking there, you have to go slow when passing someone from what i can remember from using it as a shortcut to Svullrya. Parking by the start should be ok, you could also drive into the start of old Röjden just 200m across the lake.We are going to Hof-Finnskog first and would love to squeeze in Nycelvattnet aswel but looking at google maps doesn't look like any access roads. And by going to start so late we would never get to walk the stage to viewing point

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[BleAivano]

It's the promoters and FIA that chose the dates, not the organisers. They have said NUMEROUS times in media and interview that if it were their choice, the rally would be in january or at the absolute latest a week earlier than this year.

(That wouldn't have helped this year though, as practically ALL of Scandinavia has had warmer weather this winter than in many many years...)
Next year should be "normal" again with snow and ice.

It wouldn't have helped any year. There is absolutely nothing more safe with the weather/snow situation in January. February is the coldest month of the year and saying that they want the rally in January is just making excuses.

[HaCo]

Itinerary out now https://rallysweden.com/en/the-race/
What about starting order, Saturday based on reverse order of Friday results?

[AnttiL]

What about starting order, Saturday based on reverse order of Friday results?

I think so.

[Katvala]

It wouldn't have helped any year. There is absolutely nothing more safe with the weather/snow situation in January. February is the coldest month of the year and saying that they want the rally in January is just making excuses.Yeah, January usually has a warmer period that often ends up melting all/most of the snow. Would be more of a risk than February.

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

[Tauri_J]

Forecast looks much better now :)

[linni]

Would it be possible to squeeze in more than 2 stages on Friday/Saturday now without having to walk for miles?

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

Wishful thinking.
There is only 4 stages instead of 8 stages per day. Which means you have fair amount of spectators more per stage (not double, but more anyway).
Last years have been so many cars attending that it will be quite tricky to get in and out of the parking areas.
You might succeed if you stand up very early to get closest parking spot on first stage you are going to visit. Otherwise you will just walk and walk to stage and back.

[pantealex]

Let´s discuss after the rally how many stages each has done...

Friday and Saturday is same route, so try 2+1 Torsby in Friday and if that doesn´t work only 1 + 1 Torsby in Saturday.

[linni]

Right.
I am not pushing, one in the morning and second in Torsby will be just fine.

[AnttiL]

Forecast looks much better now :)

Likenäs has even -12°C forecasted on the rally week Friday morning. That would make a good ice layer.

[Rallyper]

Looking for nice places ss2 ss3 and ss4. Rallyper? Subarunorway?

Sorry, I´m not familiar at all with those stages. SubaruNorway sure is... ;)

[AnttiL]

According to YLE Areena schedule, the televised stages are

Thursday
SS1 Karlstad
Friday
SS4 Nyckelvattnet 1
Saturday
SS6 Finnskogen 2
Sunday
SS17 Likenäs 1
SS18 Likenäs 2 (power stage)

[SubaruNorway]

We are going to Hof-Finnskog first and would love to squeeze in Nycelvattnet aswel but looking at google maps doesn't look like any access roads. And by going to start so late we would never get to walk the stage to viewing point

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

There looks to be so little snow that you can walk anywhere in the forest, start looks like it goes up a bit but should be ok depending on if it's rain or a lot of snow coming on Sunday. I'll check some sneaky options if I go by this weekend 😉

[SubaruNorway]

Sorry, I´m not familiar at all with those stages. SubaruNorway sure is... ;)

I don't have something really special, just watch WRC+ onboards and find some fast places, no real jumps on the first two

[AnttiL]

https://www.rally-maps.com/Rally-Sweden-2020

Remote tyre change added for Friday and Saturday after Hof-Finnskog.

[Meekefan]

First time in Sweden. Based on the videos, could someone kindly tell what stage and respective coordinates / closer of spectator zone is?

Video 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-dRNYQpQog
Time:
- 0:24
- 0:28
- 1:05
- 1:16

Video 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNG-FJtxqhA
Time:
- 2:04
- 2:33