Rally Portugal 2016

[Simmi]

VW 1-2-3 on the power stage I would assume. Hopefully no mistake from Mikkelsen. This would be a nice little statement from Andreas.

[noel157]

Just watched the Fafe1 footage.

Where's Kris Meeke from? I wish John Desborough would tell us.

Bit of a mystery that.......
Still talking bollox, he's a decent guy in real life but behind a mic,..

[noel157]

SS19 feed: http://cdn7.crichd.in/bt-sport-1-live-streaming

[wia5958]

Any links for power stage?

[wia5958]

Cheers noel

[Rallyper]

Per, when did Mads had a trouble-free rally by his own words? 5-6 years ago? This happens to him every rally, you must be blind not to see it!

We have not seen so many excuses in the last few decades from a single person, I would even say that all the top drivers from the past 20 yrs have not combined a total sum of Mads excuses in a single year.

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk

Consentrate on the positive not only maoning on someones excuses when you don´t know anything about it.
BTW: Must remind you on this post for example that you posted a while ago:

"CALI: Per's yanking about PT is getting funnier all the time. Just some advice - telling people here how great Pontus skills are not helping him much to get a seat in works teams. besides, there are some other great drivers out there and he has to prove that he is better than them, long way to go ...
Meanwhile, Abbring's performance is getting more interesting by every rally" (PT=Pontus Tidemand; my note)

See? You´re not god after all. Either.

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjDpxjCWgAA046o.jpg:large

[noel157]

Give it a rest guys. Please.

[cali]

Consentrate on the positive not only maoning on someones excuses when you don´t know anything about it.
BTW: Must remind you on this post for example that you posted a while ago:

"CALI: Per's yanking about PT is getting funnier all the time. Just some advice - telling people here how great Pontus skills are not helping him much to get a seat in works teams. besides, there are some other great drivers out there and he has to prove that he is better than them, long way to go ...
Meanwhile, Abbring's performance is getting more interesting by every rally" (PT=Pontus Tidemand; my note)

See? You´re not god after all. Either.
It's really hard to find something positive when Mads himself is not positive :D

Not claiming to be god, that's N. O. T., not me :rolleyes:

But you still yawn about Tidemand and Berqkvist - both good guys but your hype does not make them any better or faster.

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk

[Simmi]

See? You´re not god after all. Either.

Yawn.

[noel157]

Big air for Latvala.

[dimviii]

Sun 12:33 - SS19: Ostberg
One second slower than Neuville on stage and it looks like 7th for Mads. "A difficult rally to sum up but today has been good. The car works well and it's nice to have a car that does what I want and allows me to focus on my driving. I've been on the limit http://www.petrolheads.gr/images/smilies/oldforum/s6vhaha.gifand a little bit more."

[PLuto]

Sun 12:33 - SS19: Ostberg
One second slower than Neuville on stage and it looks like 7th for Mads. "A difficult rally to sum up but today has been good. The car works well and it's nice to have a car that does what I want and allows me to focus on my driving. I've been on the limit http://www.petrolheads.gr/images/smilies/oldforum/s6vhaha.gifand a little bit more."

Maybe he was pushing, but if you look only on results of today, still nothing impressive - http://rally-base.com/2016/vodafone-rally-de-portugal-2016/?ssId=3477&leg=3

[Simmi]

Camilli nearly threw away a top five there but just held on. Some nice foundations there with that result but lots of work to do for him moving forwards.

[dimviii]

i think that Latvala time will be not enough. Mikkelsen at 1st pass had 6.49,2 and road seems much faster

[noel157]

i think that Latvala time will be not enough. Mikkelsen at 1st pass had 6.49,2 and road seems much faster

Yep

[Rallyper]

It's really hard to find something positive when Mads himself is not positive :D

Not claiming to be god, that's N. O. T., not me :rolleyes:

But you still yawn about Tidemand and Berqkvist - both good guys but your hype does not make them any better or faster.

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk

We all have our favourites, haven´t we?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Nice points from Camilli for MSport at last .. making up for Mads dropping some with his driveshafts breaking yeaterday.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Now come on Kris... get that Union Jack flag back on the top where it belongs.

[noel157]

The Bridge/Bron music on replays.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Yesssss... Meeke wins !!! :D

[N.O.T]

Perfect drive by Meeke... first clean win in the WRC... well done.

Great drive by Mikkelsen as well.

[noel157]

Yes!!!

[onemanband]

Someone should count how many times does Jon Desborough say Dungannon during a stage.

[cali]

We all have our favourites, haven´t we?


Non particular, I quite like when there's more than one-man show in the standings and rallys. Quite happy when Ostberg would win few rallyes, at least we would be saved from the excuses. ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjDvelFXEAA0U-9.jpg:large

[EightGear]

Someone should count how many times does Jon Desborough say Dungannon during a stage.
Haha, indeed. I counted at least 5.

[TWRC]

Someone should count how many times does Jon Desborough say Dungannon during a stage.
Base for a new drinking game?

[noel157]

Great Irish win.

[onemanband]

Haha, indeed. I counted at least 5.

Definately more. He has said it 3 times after Kris finished. I think it could be over 10.

[rallyace]

Someone should count how many times does Jon Desborough say Dungannon during a stage.

Exactly, we should count while the cars "get the power down..."! ;)

[Ucci]

Stunning result by Meeke! So happy for him....
By the way: did we have in the past this situation: VW not winning two races in the row??

[seb_sh]

Base for a new drinking game?

We'd all be in the hospital before Meeke reaches the finish.

[EightGear]

Definately more. He has said it 3 times after Kris finished. I think it could be over 10.
I only tuned in a few minutes before the end so that could be very possible.

[dimviii]

Conrats to Meeke Nagle for a well deserved win.Faultless rally.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjDwvAyXAAASz_w.jpg:large

[wia5958]

well done kris and paul whole of ireland is proud of ya great victory and beat all 3 vw on the way

[Francis44]

Congrats Kris Meeke and Paul Nagle. Very controlled drive. Hope for more from them :).

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Great Irish win.

http://www.krismeeke.com/admin/resources/bio.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

By the way: did we have in the past this situation: VW not winning two races in the row??

First time since 2013 when they started.

[AL14]

Great Irish win.

Was about to write the same.

[er88]

Meeke absolutely dominated the rally from start to finish, great drive. Nobody got near him. His pace this year in the events he's done has been very good, shame he's only doing some of the events

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[dimviii]

Sun 13:03 - SS19: WRC 2 Pedder
Late drama for the Aussie who spins in the final section and loses third position to Aasen by two-tenths! "It happened under braking. Damn! Stupid mistake!"

[Rallyper]

Very solid and well deserved win for Meeke/Nagle. Mikkelsen done a great job as well. Think Sordo should have some cheers too.

And Tidemand wins WRC2. Also nice for a scandinavian... ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Meeke is British.

http://images.wrc.com/News/3008_Italy-Meekehelmet-2014_562_592x333.jpg?

[AL14]

Meeke is British.

http://images.wrc.com/News/3008_Italy-Meekehelmet-2014_562_592x333.jpg?

Nobody is perfect.

[Simmi]

Congrats to Kris and Paul. That's a really big step on this rally with the assured way they went about their business.

I don't think many people feared Kris was going to chuck it off as he might have in the past. It's just more experience and another big tick in the box ahead of next season. WRC fans deserve a big title fight and hopefully we get some great cars.

[Simmi]

Meeke is British.

http://images.wrc.com/News/3008_Italy-Meekehelmet-2014_562_592x333.jpg?

Same as last time Meeke won - why the big fascination to pin this on a nationality? Especially given everything that's gone before.

The great thing about Kris and Paul is that it's a team everyone in the UK and Ireland can get behind and feel a part of.

[RS]

Great drive by Tidemand in WRC2 and great event for the Fabia R5. Shame about Evans' problem but I think Tidemand had the edge here.

Frustrated with/annoyed by Kopecký's double puncture on leg one. He was fastest in WRC2 yesterday and second fastest today.

[Simmi]

Great drive by Tidemand in WRC2 and great event for the Fabia R5. Shame about Evans' problem but I think Tidemand had the edge here.

Frustrated with/annoyed by Kopecký's double puncture on leg one. He was fastest in WRC2 yesterday and second fastest today.

We were definitely denied a big battle in WRC2. Hard to compare the pace of a guy with nothing to lose like Suninen, and Tidemand when he is trying to bring it home. We also never really saw the best of Evans - but he has certainly used up his good fortunes since the start of the year. Fuchs and Pedder impressed me.

[EstWRC]

Awesome Meeke! Ogier denied 2nd time in a row now and this time he even didn't get 2nd place. He will be one angry man in Sardinia.

[dimviii]

i am not sure if Tidemand would be faster from Evans. At stages Evans didnt have problem some times was Tidemand faster some times Evans.
Pitty as we would have a nice dogfight. Will be at Sardegna both of them?


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjD7mVgWkAEKCpl.jpg

[dimviii]

Meeke honest at least.

"An almost perfect weekend - huge thanks to my team. We made the most of the position we were in and I couldn't have done any more. It shows the DS 3 is still a great car. For me too it's another step. I'm really, really excited about 2017!"


Οgier with 2nd slow puncture

Ogier Sébastien - Ingrassia Julien "I had another puncture, so two and only one spare. Luckily it was a slow puncture and I was able to get enough air in for the stage."

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

What a rally for Kris

And he had trouble free days..

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

Meeke is British.

http://images.wrc.com/News/3008_Italy-Meekehelmet-2014_562_592x333.jpg?
Northern Irishman, to be precise..

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

[Lundefaret]

Great win for Kris, and great for rallying :)
Off course the starting position was beneficial, but the drive was great, and driving "slowly" today to save the win is NOT easy. Great!

[er88]

Any chance PH sport reconsider and send Meeke to Sardinia? He will probably be there for the Recce anyway, and would have a great chance to win back to back rallies

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Simmi]

Any chance PH sport reconsider and send Meeke to Sardinia? He will probably be there for the Recce anyway, and would have a great chance to win back to back rallies

If not I'm praying he does Finland.

[EightGear]

He's not even entered by Citroen on their next event in Poland..

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjEEGeHW0AAi_i9.jpg

[Rallyper]

@dimviii Was Bergkvist "fast" on Fafe2 or only 5th? To me it´s a mixture of times setting, bcs of different situations for the drivers. But still. To me it´s good after what happened.

[noel157]

A bottle of McDaids and a bag of Tayto to celebrate:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjELDYiWsAADWUY.jpg

[GigiGalliNo1]

Congrats Meeke!!

[dimviii]

@dimviii Was Bergkvist "fast" on Fafe2 or only 5th? To me it´s a mixture of times setting, bcs of different situations for the drivers. But still. To me it´s good after what happened.

no its not fast a 5th time with 1sec/km from stage winner when everybody cruising.
At some rallies 1 sec/km is the diffrence between wrc vs wrc2 cars.

[Simmi]

@dimviii Was Bergkvist "fast" on Fafe2 or only 5th? To me it´s a mixture of times setting, bcs of different situations for the drivers. But still. To me it´s good after what happened.

Why does it need to be either a great time or a disappointment? I don't see the need to forensically analyse his stage times. Let's wait a few more rounds and then you have a larger body of work to measure him against other drivers.

[dimviii]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/01/35/85/Rallye_Portugal_2016_RM_027_1358585_573e15d4.jpg
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/01/39/22/Rallye_Portugal_2016_097_1392283_5741671c.jpg

[Kielder]

Some photos I took in Vieira do Minho 2 today. Really a beautiful stage!

http://i65.tinypic.com/wkmuc5.jpg
http://i65.tinypic.com/2a85742.jpg
http://i64.tinypic.com/o7w0b6.jpg
http://i66.tinypic.com/34pi8sy.jpg
http://i65.tinypic.com/osd15x.jpg
http://i67.tinypic.com/2gsiznt.jpg
http://i65.tinypic.com/f03d3k.jpg

[AL14]

I think Vieira do minho is one of the best stages in all WRC.
Honestly I can't understand the thousands at Fafe today.

[Kielder]

I've recorded a video of Meeke with my photo camera too. You'll get an idea about the place. Sorry for the noise, bluuford was right about the 4-5 m/s wind from NW:).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPuuwjFObWQ

[Kielder]

I think Vieira do minho is one of the best stages in all WRC.
Honestly I can't understand the thousands at Fafe today.

Totally agree, but don't say it very loud;). Last year I even preferred to watch a run in Vieira do Minho than two in Fafe. It doesn't worth the battle against those thousands to find a place to leave your car or a half a metre squared to be stood up away from the road. Of course, you have to go there once in lifetime, like to Col du Turini. I've been in both places more than once, which is more than enough.

[wia5958]

Just been listening to the local sports news on radio here in tyrone and not even a mention of meeke winning the rally however ur boy laverty got a mention for finishing 6th in moto gp go figure

[noel157]

Just been listening to the local sports news on radio here in tyrone and not even a mention of meeke winning the rally however ur boy laverty got a mention for finishing 6th in moto gp go figure

It may eventually get to Radio U or Downtown etc.

Rory and JP did well too, great weekend for us.

[noel157]

I've recorded a video of Meeke with my photo camera too. You'll get an idea about the place. Sorry for the noise, bluuford was right about the 4-5 m/s wind from NW:).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPuuwjFObWQ

I'd certainly rather go there than Fafe. That's much better value from a spectating POV, proper stage.

[bunnings]

http://i.imgur.com/wPQW0eC.jpg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6ntbNws1n4&index=1&list=PLUWxC5moAEk--KO3FBgcjvTDInXY47q1y)

https://youtu.be/l6ntbNws1n4

[Eli]

Stunning result by Meeke! So happy for him....
By the way: did we have in the past this situation: VW not winning two races in the row??

don't know about that, but this is the first time Ogier doesn't win 3 events in a row...let's hope this streak continues.

[Allyc85]

Great win for Meeke, making the most of his road position and pacing it perfectly! He really has stepped up another level now and can drive fast, but so much more consistently. I Was at work, sat on my mower listening on WRC Radio in the pouring rain, cheering as he crossed the finish line! Good job there were no golfers about! :D

[Eli]

I think Sordo also deserves a cheer, if it wasn't for that puncture(?) he would be able to at least get to 3rd...or at least be able to fight for it, think it's one of his best seasons in this decade at least,if he's clever he'll remain at Hyundai,after Citroen chucked him out twice...and developing a new car for Toyota doesn't seem like clever options. And ofcourse well done for Kris Meeke, hopefully he'll be able to keep this pace and the consistency for next year to mount a challenge for Mr. Ogier. and Co.

[bluuford]

I've recorded a video of Meeke with my photo camera too. You'll get an idea about the place. Sorry for the noise, bluuford was right about the 4-5 m/s wind from NW:).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPuuwjFObWQ

Yeah, you were lucky that clouds moved a bit away and you got very nice photos and videos :) This week, everything was a bit shifted (compared to initial forecast) with weather. Rain arrived a bit later and left a bit earlier :)

[hari]

Gallery Thursday - Sunday:
http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos_bestof_wrc_rallye_de_portugal_2016.html

http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2016/portugal/bestof5/1.jpg
http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2016/portugal/bestof4/2.jpg
http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2016/portugal/bestof3/1.jpg
http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2016/portugal/bestof4/1a.jpg

[PLuto]

Bernardo Sousa and his retirement due to broken suspension

https://scontent.fmad3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/l/t1.0-9/13244731_10157136744005413_7559623040670010772_n.j pg?oh=8e977424b3f643f1693bd30a3a713f6d&oe=579B80A9

[Rally Power]

Fantastic rally and fantastic Meeke! It’s hard to describe his pace on Friday and Saturday morning stages. He took everything that car can deliver, but everyone felt he was always in control. Not one of those maniac full attack attempts but a superior driving show, completed with a strong mental ability to manage the advantage till the end. Forget road opening issues or the ss5 notional time gain: he was simply on a higher level.

A bit amazed why Sordo was losing time to VW’s guys during leg 1 and 2. On the stages it looked he was faster. Like Meeke, Tideman’s performance was really above the others on WRC2. Nice job from our local heros, Miguel Campos/Carlos Magalhães; 5th on WRC2, after fighting for the podium.

In 2wd field the most entertaining guys were the Italian’s 208 drivers, even if top DS3 Junior crews are clearly competent and their cars superior. The Fiesta’s guys pushed hard, but those R2T are a bit annoying to watch. Bernardo Sousa/Hugo Magalhães were damn fast but unbelievably unlucky.

It was a harder rally than expected, with lots of retirements. Gladly, Paddon, Tanak and their co-drivers didn’t get hurt from SS5 dramatic incident, but no one should criticize the organizers, as they acted the fastest possible. Btw, Porto street stage was absolutely brilliant. Huge crowds, motivated crews and lots of media exposure. Well done.

[AL14]

:)

Hayden Paddon
‏@HaydenPaddon
Congrats @krismeeke and Paul - dominant victory from start to finish! We are making a habit of watching each other win on WRC+ from home 😂😂


krismeeke.com ‏@krismeeke 2 h2 ore fa
@HaydenPaddon thanks man! Let’s make a habit of the winning and less of the watching television!! 😂 👍🏼

[dimviii]

http://i.imgur.com/wPQW0eC.jpg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6ntbNws1n4&index=1&list=PLUWxC5moAEk--KO3FBgcjvTDInXY47q1y)

https://youtu.be/l6ntbNws1n4

excellent video,thanks!

[dimviii]

Gorban jumping with puncture
maybe after this landing broke the suspension and retired?

http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2016/portugal/bestof5/h7.jpg

[itix]

Bernardo Sousa and his retirement due to broken suspension

https://scontent.fmad3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/l/t1.0-9/13244731_10157136744005413_7559623040670010772_n.j pg?oh=8e977424b3f643f1693bd30a3a713f6d&oe=579B80A9
That, to me, looks like a case of broken everything

[dimviii]

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_05_2016/post-177-0-84994000-1463933488.jpg

[Rallyper]

no its not fast a 5th time with 1sec/km from stage winner when everybody cruising.
At some rallies 1 sec/km is the diffrence between wrc vs wrc2 cars.

Ok, my friend. So now even you count seconds/km. However I think not everyone was cruising. Not even the 10-15 lads with slower times in WRC2.

[janvanvurpa]

Fantastic rally and fantastic Meeke! It’s hard to describe his pace on Friday and Saturday morning stages. He took everything that car can deliver,
A bit amazed why Sordo was losing time to VW’s guys during leg 1 and 2. On the stages it looked he was faster.

In 2wd field the most entertaining guys were the Italian’s 208 drivers, even if top DS3 Junior crews are clearly competent and their cars superior. The Fiesta’s guys pushed hard, but those R2T are a bit annoying to watch. Bernardo Sousa/Hugo Magalhães were damn fast but unbelievably unlucky.



Well looks deceive and subjective observations are well subjective..Fortunately we have the clock!

Can I ask for a bit of details on the R2D2 or what ever it was you say they were annoying to watch..What particularly? Slow?
Last year we had a visit here in our little Champignonskit from Ozzie driver Brendan Reeves in little 1000 turbo Fiesta and he turned in top 10 SS times on an event that has roads faster 9and easier) than Finland against cars with 2 and 2.5 liter turbo motors...

But the truth here is well you know..
Sp what as annoying?

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjAGFLWXIAA_3Ei.jpg

Ogiers polo at Sardegna
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjFtvSlWUAAnrNU.jpg

[dimviii]

Ok, my friend. So now even you count seconds/km. However I think not everyone was cruising. Not even the 10-15 lads with slower times in WRC2.

if your benchmark for Berqvist are the 10-15 crews slower than him its ok.
At real world if you are fast or NOT,you have to measure sec/km from winner.

[Luis Pacheco]

Bernardo Sousa and his retirement due to broken suspension

Bernardo Sousa ‏@B_Sousa_rally 9 hHá 9 horas Fafe, Portugal
We are out, but both okey!!! Missed the braking point, end of story! Sorry to @msportltd…

Bernardo Sousa ‏@B_Sousa_rally 8 hHá 8 horas Fafe, Portugal
UPDATE!!! This broken arm/suspension made us go off! @ Fafe Wrc
https://www.instagram.com/p/BFtjektpbMC/

[dimviii]

nice video,nice passes from Meeke and Paddon
Meeke last rallies have change his drive.No more from side to side overdriving.Right lines,early on gas on exits with straight forward steering.


https://youtu.be/YTbW7Js2TtU

[Rally Power]

Sp what as annoying?

A bit annoying as a bit boring (especially after watching 15 WRC’s and 25 R5’s driven by the world bests). They don’t sound as nice as the 208’s (or the Adam’s) and they’re more stable, looking less impressive. But there’s no doubt they can be fast and in today’s limited 2wd rally market they’re a reasonable option for newcomers.

[PLuto]

A bit annoying as a bit boring (especially after watching 15 WRC’s and 25 R5’s driven by the world bests). They don’t sound as nice as the 208’s (or the Adam’s) and they’re more stable, looking less impressive. But there’s no doubt they can be fast and in today’s limited 2wd rally market they’re a reasonable option for newcomers.

Atmospheric R2 cars are more spectacular, cheaper for running. R2T Fiesta is really boring to watch.

All in all, I dont think that cars with turbo are the best idea for categories R2 and R3, which should be primary cheaper...

[Mirek]

There is no other choice. Atmospheric engines disappear from the car market and there aren't many base engines left. For example whole VAG doesn't sell any NA R2 suitable engine in Europe, be it VW, Škoda or Seat. Only turbos. It's not much different with other manufacturers and it will only change towards all turbo when the old NA engines run out of their production life.

By the way do You have a solid information that the 1.0 EcoBoost is more expensive to run that 1.6 NA from say Adam? Adam R2 is very expensive car and I have believed that Fiesta R2, even R2T is a loooot cheaper. For me it's somehow hard to see why the NA R2 engines shall be cheaper than the small turbo engines which are being run in near stock configuration.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Same as last time Meeke won - why the big fascination to pin this on a nationality? Especially given everything that's gone before.

The great thing about Kris and Paul is that it's a team everyone in the UK and Ireland can get behind and feel a part of.

No fascination... just stating a fact.

Kris Meeke is British. Union Jack on his roof vent, helmet and car window.

Paul Nagel is Irish.

[Rallyper]

if your benchmark for Berqvist are the 10-15 crews slower than him its ok.
At real world if you are fast or NOT,you have to measure sec/km from winner.

Which was as low as under 0,2 s/km at it´s best. But then you counted places instead. I know you don´t know anything about Emil and that´s understable. If you´d followed his career so far (in Sweden that is) you might been a bit more humble. However I don´t blaim you because I´ve done the same myself regarding some drivers from the mediterrainian countries.

So now let´s wait and see together and whom will be the buyer of beers when we meet next time... ;)

[cali]

Which was as low as under 0,2 s/km at it´s best. But then you counted places instead. I know you don´t know anything about Emil and that´s understable. If you´d followed his career so far (in Sweden that is) you might been a bit more humble. However I don´t blaim you because I´ve done the same myself regarding some drivers from the mediterrainian countries.

So now let´s wait and see together and whom will be the buyer of beers when we meet next time... ;)
Per, does that mean there's no more hype from your side? If yes, count me in :cool:

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk

[dimviii]

Which was as low as under 0,2 s/km at it´s best. But then you counted places instead. I know you don´t know anything about Emil and that´s understable. If you´d followed his career so far (in Sweden that is) you might been a bit more humble. However I don´t blaim you because I´ve done the same myself regarding some drivers from the mediterrainian countries.

So now let´s wait and see together and whom will be the buyer of beers when we meet next time... ;)

Per i dont say that Berqvist hasnt got potential. From what we have seen till now he worth a chance at r5 category.
Till now we havent see something worthy,and this is something normal for so phew rallies and problems he had.
If he has the speed to compete at top r5 category is something we have to wait and see after some rallies.
So we cant say he is fast.
I will be more than happy to be fast,and thats for any driver,from any nationality.
Just remember that even drivers that were fast at every round with r5 car at rallies that he entered for 1st time,at wrc level and works level entry they have failed(Abbring ie)
Each category has their level,and these levels are not easy achieved,when jumping to higher categories.Millions of examples at rallies.

So how many beers you want to bet?
I am with Tidemand.http://www.petrolheads.gr/images/smilies/smooth/biggrin.gif

[dimviii]

watch the prop over the roof of Mikkelsens polo

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjFfpGuXIAAwI2S.jpg

[Rallyper]

Per, does that mean there's no more hype from your side? If yes, count me in :cool:

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk

Can´t promise. ;) Count you in anyway.

[Lundefaret]

So, Capito tells Autosport that Kris winning in Portugal is devaluing the championship?!

Capito is the guy that wants the time differences in the two or three first days be divided by 10, so to close the whole field up (much like putting out a safety care in circuit racing to increase the action), and then he suddenly dont like Meeke winning because his starting position helped him?!?!?!

Its great for the championship that we have different winners! Finally there is some real excitement!

Only logical solution to this is that Ogier has told Capito that "either you fix this starting position thing, or i quit rallying."

Read the full article here:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124449/vw-wildcard-winners-devalue-wrc

[noel157]

Sore losers. Hopefully they'll get their arses kicked again later in the season...

[EightGear]

Lol, what an idiot. Why is it taking so long for him to piss off to McLaren? He won't be missed.

[dimviii]

nice video to compare suspension at rough gravel parts.
Watch the brakes at the straight with plenty of km,how stable is polo vs hyundai.Also watch Tempestini (green ds3)
https://youtu.be/CXohIeRBfjE

[dimviii]

Lol, what an idiot. Why is it taking so long for him to piss off to McLaren? He won't be missed.

Meeke about Capitos interview at Autosport


krismeeke.com
‏@krismeeke



And here was me thinking I done something good this weekend! #Danke ����

https://twitter.com/krismeeke?lang=el

[EstWRC]

Ah our good old friend Jost. What is he eating? I want it too

[dimviii]

https://twitter.com/Becsywecsy?lang=el

https://twitter.com/voiceofrally?lang=el

[focus206]

Capito, feel free to leave whenever you want...

[AL14]

Say what you want but I think Capito is right. The same apply reverserly if it had rained, or in rallys like Monte. He maybe forgot to say this but never mind.
Hat off to Kris victory this weekend but it is true that rules as they are, are just wrong.

As for "more variety of winners" I think it is awful if we obtain it in a artificial way, not giving to the best a chance of win (or advantaging him so much in other kind of rallys).

I know many of us are sick of one man winning everytime (especially if he is arrogant, full of himself and is moaning the hell out of him everytime) but we should try to be rational in judgment

[moto99]

Its great for the championship that we have different winners!
I've got a mixed feelings. On one hand it's nice to see 3 different winners in the last 3 rallies. On the other hand it's only because Ogier was cleaning the road most of the time.


Finally there is some real excitement!
Actually Meeke was just building his lead from day 1 unchallenged. And Ogier still has a huge lead in the championship. Only excitement was Paddon's fire.
Do you call excitement 'will Ogier take back time lost during previous days on the Sunday sprint'? Mind you that Sunday stages was less than 20% of the rally...

Different winners are exciting only for statisticians - what matters is fight on stages. And Ogier can cruise to championship on only 2nd places, with wins taken by guys currently down enough on the ladder to have completely clean road. Because when they move up in the points they can no longer win.

[AL14]

I've got a mixed feelings. On one hand it's nice to see 3 different winners in the last 3 rallies. On the other hand it's only because Ogier was cleaning the road most of the time.


Actually Meeke was just building his lead from day 1 unchallenged. And Ogier still has a huge lead in the championship. Only excitement was Paddon's fire.
Do you call excitement 'will Ogier take back time lost during previous days on the Sunday sprint'? Mind you that Sunday stages was less than 20% of the rally...

Different winners are exciting only for statisticians - what matters is fight on stages. And Ogier can cruise to championship on only 2nd places, with wins taken by guys currently down enough on the ladder to have completely clean road. Because when they move up in the points they can no longer win.
The truth is sad sometimes but is true

[Mariusz]

The thing is Ogier has the right to complain about the current rules, because they strip him of winning rallies. And after winning the whole championship this is the second most important thing. I'm sure he doesn't care about creating artificial excitement because he knows he is the best, so he should be winning. When people look at rally results 10, 20 years ago they are not checking what kind of the rules were at that time. They just see places and in the way he currently drives it should all 1st places for him this year.

[janvanvurpa]

So, Capito tells Autosport that Kris winning in Portugal is devaluing the championship?!



Only logical solution to this is that Ogier has told Capito that "either you fix this starting position thing, or i quit rallying."


I'm always looking for alternate plan* (part of the way I suggest people plan and think about learning skills to get started on the right foot---remember your long term project?;))

Here's what we should say to Capito
"For you the war is over" oder "Capito, du bist kaput-o"

To both "Bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out!"


*Part of the easy to remember PACE planning;
PACE is
Primary plan
Alternate plan
Contingency plan
Emergency plan

Its fawkin brilliant!
You can barrow it!

[Simmi]

People just hate sustained periods of success and lord knows the WRC has endured enough of that. So by definition it is exciting to see new and different drivers winning. It's more about momentum and hope for the future that we will actually get these fights more often.

Whether you agree with Capito's points or not - to come out with this the day after a rival victory is massively poor form. It's disrespectful and short-sighted, and it's also another PR own-goal for VW. To say having multiple rally winners 'devalues' the sport shows he certainly has the right mentality for F1!

I don't think anyone is in doubt that the road order needs looking at. Ogier has made so much noise about it that it's becoming unavoidable and the FIA needs to rectify this. The idea about putting 'wild card' drivers first on the road is stupid though - like most of his ideas.

[stefanvv]

and it's also another PR own-goal for VW.

true, but what You would say if the Company You work for is throwing hundred of millions to be N1 in this sport and they are, just not by the individual rallies results.

[Simmi]

true, but what You would say if the Company You work for is throwing hundred of millions to be N1 in this sport and they are, just not by the individual rallies results.

You say it behind closed doors to the people who have the power to make the change. You don't need to broadcast everything in public - as even if you're right - you can come out of it looking bad.

I'd have more sympathy for Capito if VW didn't have the most crushing win rate of any manufacturer in WRC history. It's not like they are going through some awful barren patch where they have no chance to win any event. They have arguably the three best drivers in the WRC, and only one of them is running first on the road.

[er88]

Ogier has probably kicked up a fuss and spat his dummy out behind closed doors, leaving Capito feeling like he has to back his star man.

Thing is, why does Ogier/VW go on and on about road cleaning to this extent. Every driver would love to be in Ogier's position with the best car, the best team, a massive contract and a comfortable championship lead. I'm sure Meeke and Paddon have said that themselves - that if you're running 1st on the road it means you're doing well in the championship. All the greats of the past won championships cleaning the road, and it's always been a part of the WRC. When this what Ogier and VW are like when they're winning/ leading championships, christ knows how unbearable they'll be if Meeke can really push them for the title next year (if the C3 is quick from the outset).

The only thing that I think is a tad unfair, is running the championship leader first on the road for 2 full days, when Sunday is a truly pathetic "day" with 3 or 4 nothingy stages.

The championship leader should run 1st car on all events for day 1, and the WRC bosses need to get a grip and let rallies run full days on Sundays. It's pointless the current identikit format all the rallies run too. People who watch the live Powerstage are rally fans, and would watch it whether it's 9am, 3pm or 9pm on the Sunday. It doesn't have to be a midday finish for every rally surely ...



Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[dimviii]

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2016/photos/vodafone_rally_de_portugal_2016/mos_2%203.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2016/photos/vodafone_rally_de_portugal_2016/mos_2%204.jpg

[Mintexmemory]

So, Capito tells Autosport that Kris winning in Portugal is devaluing the championship?!

Capito is the guy that wants the time differences in the two or three first days be divided by 10, so to close the whole field up (much like putting out a safety care in circuit racing to increase the action), and then he suddenly dont like Meeke winning because his starting position helped him?!?!?!

Its great for the championship that we have different winners! Finally there is some real excitement!

Only logical solution to this is that Ogier has told Capito that "either you fix this starting position thing, or i quit rallying."


Total bull from Capito - This is a competition not a VW benefit. They have 60% of the victories thus far. If we are talking about people who never contest the whole championship then let JML run at the front for every rally (as long as he lasts) or Ostberg (if he doesn't hold anyone up)
However I don't believe this will make Ogier retire - small matter of Loeb's number of championships - French mentality!!!

[dimviii]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/01/40/34/Rallye_Portugal_2016_106_1403484_5742ab62.jpg
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/01/40/36/Rallye_Portugal_2016_141_1403618_5742ab6a.jpg
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/01/40/35/Rallye_Portugal_2016_125_1403560_5742ab66.jpg
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/01/40/35/Rallye_Portugal_2016_128_1403578_5742ab67.jpg

[Rallyper]

One thing for sure. Meeke will not appear behind wheel of VW Polo next coming years.

[Franky]

I think Capito just confirmed that Meeke is the second fastest guy in WRC.

[dimviii]

video where Maciek hurt from the jump

https://el-gr.facebook.com/WorldRally/videos/10153673379740678/

[RS]

There is no other choice. Atmospheric engines disappear from the car market and there aren't many base engines left. For example whole VAG doesn't sell any NA R2 suitable engine in Europe, be it VW, Škoda or Seat. Only turbos. It's not much different with other manufacturers and it will only change towards all turbo when the old NA engines run out of their production life.


I think Skoda build a 1.6 NA engine based on the new EA211 series but it is only sold in Russia?

[Mirek]

I think Skoda build a 1.6 NA engine based on the new EA211 series but it is only sold in Russia?

That was however Fabia II. I don't know what they currently sell in Russia to tell the truth. Anyway the Fabia R2 engine was built by private motoring engineer Mr. Kouřil, not by Škoda Motorsport. The whole car was only homologated by Škoda but otherwise it was all private initiative (still the engine was probably the best part of the car).

Anyway the point stays. The NA R2 engines are tailored racing units whereas I believe that the Fiesta R2T uses near stock engine.

[Mirek]

video where Maciek hurt from the jump

https://el-gr.facebook.com/WorldRally/videos/10153673379740678/

Looks like the car landed by right rear wheel in the ditch and therefore directly on the rear sumpguard. It must have been a big shock for the bodies.

[RS]

That was however Fabia II. I don't know what they currently sell in Russia to tell the truth. Anyway the Fabia R2 engine was built by private motoring engineer Mr. Kouřil, not by Škoda Motorsport. The whole car was only homologated by Škoda but otherwise it was all private initiative (still the engine was probably the best part of the car).

Anyway the point stays. The NA R2 engines are tailored racing units whereas I believe that the Fiesta R2T uses near stock engine.

But I presume NA R2 engines have to be based on a road car engine, and what I was saying is that there is a modern NA 1.6 engine in the VAG range.

[Mirek]

The only VAG car currently being sold with 1.6 NA engine in Europe is Rapid for Russian market (Fabia isn't officially on sale in Russia anymore). Theoretically the engine can be still used because FIA changed the rules for Opel but I don't see much reasons to do that. New 1.0 TSI sounds like a lot better option, also for marketing purposes.

[Martins Tolks]

Russian market is a bit different from typical european market (also because of fuel quality), so simpler engines are popular here. But still, NA engines needs much more tuning to give same results as those 1 and a bit litre turbo engines. Besides, they can make full use of beefy torque curve and possibly added reliability. Ok, not so spectacular, but who cares, if it wins?

[itix]

So, Capito tells Autosport that Kris winning in Portugal is devaluing the championship?!

Capito is the guy that wants the time differences in the two or three first days be divided by 10, so to close the whole field up (much like putting out a safety care in circuit racing to increase the action), and then he suddenly dont like Meeke winning because his starting position helped him?!?!?!

Its great for the championship that we have different winners! Finally there is some real excitement!

Only logical solution to this is that Ogier has told Capito that "either you fix this starting position thing, or i quit rallying."

Read the full article here:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124449/vw-wildcard-winners-devalue-wrc
Capito has never made any sense ever... He is also contradicting himself all the time.

I won't cry for his demise.

[Rally Power]

I don't think anyone is in doubt that the road order needs looking at. Ogier has made so much noise about it that it's becoming unavoidable and the FIA needs to rectify this.


Amen. The best thing FIA could do right now is to take back 2014 starting rules (1st day according to championship standings, 2nd/3rd days according to previous day classification, with top ten running in reversed order).

That way it’d be pretty clear that VW and Ogier aren’t the dominant force they used to be. They’re mainly upset because competition has managed to progress and reach their technical level.

Paddon won Argentina’s last day direct confrontation with Ogier and Meeke got a 34.5s advantage over the French at the end of Portugal’s 2nd leg (while last year Latvala’s leaded only by 9.5s). Trying to justify that with current starting order isn’t serious.

[N.O.T]

That way it’d be pretty clear that VW and Ogier aren’t the dominant force they used to be. They’re mainly upset because competition has managed to progress and reach their technical level.

Paddon won Argentina’s last day direct confrontation with Ogier and Meeke got a 34.5s advantage over the French at the end of Portugal’s 2nd leg (while last year Latvala’s leaded only by 9.5s). Trying to justify that with current starting order isn’t serious.

both these wins were because of starting order and because Latavla is nothing.

Paddons was a bit more substantial because it was a one stage dog fight and Ogier barely loses those, but with 1 day of cleaning Ogier would be the winner in those rallies.

[Rally Power]

Fantastic Porto, fantastic Portugal and fantastic WRC! Only 359 days for next one...

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13267884_1026424394092144_7776710892506185386_n.jp g?oh=f95154f1658be6f024e87153159d3271&oe=57E13F55
https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13266073_1026846000716650_5475991218218909283_n.jp g?oh=c9e5ff520030b020681762638d849f86&oe=57E0AE26
https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1936243_1027098447358072_5894099003909542981_n.jpg ?oh=4392c89ddb5a21031ac130732403508e&oe=57D7A4D0
photos: www.facebook.com/bestofrallylive/
Video highlights
WRC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3EmTS3eYiA
Borl: https://youtu.be/4bbui7Dhc-o

[Rally Power]

(...) with 1 day of cleaning Ogier would be the winner in those rallies.

How can anyone be that sure anymore?

[stefanvv]

Let's be honest, Ogier is not giving 110% anymore to win rallies with such rules.

[Mirek]

Ogier? I don't think so. He has the beast in him which just must crush the others. Always. And that's exactly why he feels frustrated even when he is already now near sure 2016 champion.

[Rally Power]

Let's be honest, Ogier is not giving 110% anymore to win rallies with such rules.

It's possible. Best way to know is to get back to previous rules.

[Lundefaret]

People just hate sustained periods of success and lord knows the WRC has endured enough of that. So by definition it is exciting to see new and different drivers winning. It's more about momentum and hope for the future that we will actually get these fights more often.

Whether you agree with Capito's points or not - to come out with this the day after a rival victory is massively poor form. It's disrespectful and short-sighted, and it's also another PR own-goal for VW. To say having multiple rally winners 'devalues' the sport shows he certainly has the right mentality for F1!

I don't think anyone is in doubt that the road order needs looking at. Ogier has made so much noise about it that it's becoming unavoidable and the FIA needs to rectify this. The idea about putting 'wild card' drivers first on the road is stupid though - like most of his ideas.

There are a lot of ways to look at the starting order, 2014 rules might be the best route, but the timing of this statement is really poorly judged.

And its also taking away to much from the performances of the recent winners. I think Latvala can testify to the fact that these victories are a little bit more difficult than just picking them up like groceries in the convenience store.

And I know a guy from New Zealand who is gearing up to take on Ogier from any starting position ;)

[wia5958]

So does that mean that capito wants them running at the front in tarmac rallys too pulling all the dirt onto the road in front of ogier like he does for everyone else...

[stefanvv]

Ogier? I don't think so. He has the beast in him which just must crush the others. Always. And that's exactly why he feels frustrated even when he is already now near sure 2016 champion.

It is Your right to think what You wish, but in my opinion he has given up the fight with impossible.

[Lundefaret]

So does that mean that capito wants them running at the front in tarmac rallys too pulling all the dirt onto the road in front of ogier like he does for everyone else...

I believe that is his next planned statement, yes.

[Mk2 RS2000]

And I know a guy from New Zealand who is gearing up to take on Ogier from any starting position ;)

So do I.

The little French Bantam is finding out that there is a full sized Rooster in the chook house now hence all the ruffled feathers.

[sollitt]

both these wins were because of starting order ... . Not an entirely unreasonable statement however the 'facts' are inconclusive.
If the issue of road sweeping were such a determinant of the outcome then surely Ogier should be winning the 2nd pass over the multi use stages. He's not doing so, at least not consistently.

I can recall a time (very many years ago) when 'seeding' was recognition of the driver's status and the expectation of their result. The #1 was worn by the car expected to win which may not have been the current champion but the winner of the previous year's event. The cars would start each event in numerical order. The car numbers would change on each event, as would their start position on the first day. The start order on subsequent days would reflect their position in the event.
A simple system which everybody understood ... the competitors, the media and, most importantly, the spectators.
What's not understandable is why they ever changed it.

[Lundefaret]

Not an entirely unreasonable statement however the 'facts' are inconclusive.
If the issue of road sweeping were such a determinant of the outcome then surely Ogier should be winning the 2nd pass over the multi use stages. He's not doing so, at least not consistently.

I can recall a time (very many years ago) when 'seeding' was recognition of the driver's status and the expectation of their result. The #1 was worn by the car expected to win which may not have been the current champion but the winner of the previous year's event. The cars would start each event in numerical order. The car numbers would change on each event, as would their start position on the first day. The start order on subsequent days would reflect their position in the event.
A simple system which everybody understood ... the competitors, the media and, most importantly, the spectators.
What's not understandable is why they ever changed it.

Dont forget that on the second pass Ogier is first on the road again (being first on the road in the lines of the smaller classes.)

[danon]

http://s5.postimg.org/mlcov9c5j/201600510238_1ov.jpg

[RAS007]

Thing is, why does Ogier/VW go on and on about road cleaning to this extent. Every driver would love to be in Ogier's position with the best car, the best team, a massive contract and a comfortable championship lead. I'm sure Meeke and Paddon have said that themselves - that if you're running 1st on the road it means you're doing well in the championship. All the greats of the past won championships cleaning the road, and it's always been a part of the WRC.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Will someone give this man a cigar?

[Munkvy]

Someone made the very good point recently that Ogier came up through the ranks where he didn't really have to start first on the road as he was part of junior classes in a bigger championship, rather than being a leading national driver a lot of the time. And even in WRC in the Citroen Junior team he wasn't first still. So it wasn't till he was a VW driver that he actually had to run first consistently?

Whereas a lot of other competitors did national events where it was part of being the fastest driver, you swept the road. So I think some of it is perspective and your previous experience?

[RAS007]

Someone made the very good point recently that Ogier came up through the ranks where he didn't really have to start first on the road as he was part of junior classes in a bigger championship, rather than being a leading national driver a lot of the time. And even in WRC in the Citroen Junior team he wasn't first still. So it wasn't till he was a VW driver that he actually had to run first consistently?

Whereas a lot of other competitors did national events where it was part of being the fastest driver, you swept the road. So I think some of it is perspective and your previous experience?

Which as a professional driver and multiple world champion, he needs to deal with in a professional manner, not whine like a little bitch every time he sees a microphone.

[Munkvy]

Which as a professional driver and multiple world champion, he needs to deal with in a professional manner, not whine like a little bitch every time he sees a microphone.

Absolutely agree, he is a little bitch. Certainly doesn't live up to the Seb name.

And I don't like that he complains, but I guess I am more saying he had it easy coming up, others have dealt with sweeping before and to them it's just normal.

[AL14]

The fact is that we are confusing Ogier's mental issues and frustrations with the rules.

Ogier should not complain that much, we all know that. Consider that after Sardinia we will have Corsica, China, Spain and Galles, all rallys where he will have either equal conditions or being advantaged.
Also I'm hearing of bad weather in Sardinia that will mean he will be advantaged there too if true.

The fact is that the rules are wrong no matter who is first in the championship.
In 2014 before a rally we knew anybody can win, now in gravel rallys we know somebody have no chance, and in rallys like Monaco is even worse because the best driver is advantaged, so anybody else have hopes.
It's simple as that.
It's not up to rulers to stop Ogier, they can limit him as they did in 2014 when he opened the road in first leg, but to stop him is up to other drivers and teams.
And I know a guy from NZ with his norvegian advisor that can do the task in the future.

Also don't forget that in 2014 Ogier lost 5 times and won 8. I'm pretty sure this year will not be too much different. The only difference is that him and us already know that in some rallys he has no chance and in others he has already win before start. I don't find this "exciting", do you?

One last thing:
In a previous comment I read "every driver would love to be in Ogier's position with the best car, the best team, a massive contract and a comfortable championship lead."
Ogier is not there by God's will, he is there because he earned it, he showed all his strenght battling against the best rally driver of all time and winning all the world championships afterwards. So he is not lucky to be there.

Please now let me stop defending him, it makes me suffer :)

[N.O.T]

Ogier is not there by God's will

I can confirm that.

[Lundefaret]

The fact is that we are confusing Ogier's mental issues and frustrations with the rules.

Ogier should not complain that much, we all know that. Consider that after Sardinia we will have Corsica, China, Spain and Galles, all rallys where he will have either equal conditions or being advantaged.
Also I'm hearing of bad weather in Sardinia that will mean he will be advantaged there too if true.

The fact is that the rules are wrong no matter who is first in the championship.
In 2014 before a rally we knew anybody can win, now in gravel rallys we know somebody have no chance, and in rallys like Monaco is even worse because the best driver is advantaged, so anybody else have hopes.
It's simple as that.
It's not up to rulers to stop Ogier, they can limit him as they did in 2014 when he opened the road in first leg, but to stop him is up to other drivers and teams.
And I know a guy from NZ with his norvegian advisor that can do the task in the future.

Also don't forget that in 2014 Ogier lost 5 times and won 8. I'm pretty sure this year will not be too much different. The only difference is that him and us already know that in some rallys he has no chance and in others he has already win before start. I don't find this "exciting", do you?

One last thing:
In a previous comment I read "every driver would love to be in Ogier's position with the best car, the best team, a massive contract and a comfortable championship lead."
Ogier is not there by God's will, he is there because he earned it, he showed all his strenght battling against the best rally driver of all time and winning all the world championships afterwards. So he is not lucky to be there.

Please now let me stop defending him, it makes me suffer :)

I think you make a very important point here AL14, and that is that we should not disrespect Ogier as a driver.
He is the current benchmark, no two ways about that.

But, motorsport at this level is not only for the drivers. It is also for spectators, TV viewers etc, (read: fans) to gather attention, to make it a sellable product, so it needs to be exiting.
Success ballast is commonly used in touring cars to level the playing field. (I am not introducing the idea of success ballast in rallying!) It is not fair to the best team/driver, but it does its role in creating excitement.
There has also been reverse starting orders in the second race, so the winner starts down in the grid.
So the question is, if Ogier would lead a touring car championship, would he always complain about the rules then as well?

All tough Im in favor of the 2014 rules (because when Hayden wins the championship I want it to be on equal terms against the best in the world), I think Volkswagen and Capito is doing damage to the WRC by these kind of very poorly timed statements.

My suspicion is that the main reason for this is Ogiers character. For him it isn't enough to win the championship, he wants to beat every record ever set, to be the greatest of all time (and we all know what that means), and he sees that this will be impossible if these rules continue, and I would suspect that he has even threatened to quit rallying all together if this does not change, and I suspect Ogiers tuntrums after Portugal lead Capito to have to react, to show Ogier that he stands 100% behind him.

The championship needs Ogier, to win the championship whit out beating him would be like winning the Spanish soccer league whit out Barcelona and Real Madrid playing.

[AL14]

I think you make a very important point here AL14, and that is that we should not disrespect Ogier as a driver.
He is the current benchmark, no two ways about that.

But, motorsport at this level is not only for the drivers. It is also for spectators, TV viewers etc, (read: fans) to gather attention, to make it a sellable product, so it needs to be exiting.
Success ballast is commonly used in touring cars to level the playing field. (I am not introducing the idea of success ballast in rallying!) It is not fair to the best team/driver, but it does its role in creating excitement.
There has also been reverse starting orders in the second race, so the winner starts down in the grid.
So the question is, if Ogier would lead a touring car championship, would he always complain about the rules then as well?

All tough Im in favor of the 2014 rules (because when Hayden wins the championship I want it to be on equal terms against the best in the world), I think Volkswagen and Capito is doing damage to the WRC by these kind of very poorly timed statements.

My suspicion is that the main reason for this is Ogiers character. For him it isn't enough to win the championship, he wants to beat every record ever set, to be the greatest of all time (and we all know what that means), and he sees that this will be impossible if these rules continue, and I would suspect that he has even threatened to quit rallying all together if this does not change, and I suspect Ogiers tuntrums after Portugal lead Capito to have to react, to show Ogier that he stands 100% behind him.

The championship needs Ogier, to win the championship whit out beating him would be like winning the Spanish soccer league whit out Barcelona and Real Madrid playing.

That sentence is enough for me. Do you find it exciting? I don't. I was just happy for Kris Meeke last weekend because he is a great driver and seems a nice guy. But really, as a fan, I would have been way more excited if he had won against Ogier in equal conditions.

Also you're not counting that in rallys like Monte or Galles when it rains (always) it is even less exciting because Ogier is advantaged.

In conclusion I agree with you that motorsport and rally are not just for drivers and must be exciting for fans and sponsors. But my objection is that these rules don't make it exciting.

As for Capito's move agree it has been stupid in timing and in the way he showed his disagreement. Ogier's tantrums have had a role for sure. This does not change the fact that in my opinion 2014 rules are better for everybody, drivers, spectators, and sponsors.

[Mirek]

Guys, have a look on that all stuff from higher perspective no matter how hard it is. Now for a while forget that motorsport is sport and look at it as on marketing tool which it actually is for all the manufacturers involved. They don't spend millions for helping some guy to win the title. They do it because they want to increase their image, to sell more of their products and to make more money.

As such motorsport on this level is all driven by cold money-driven management. And that's another issue because if one very rich team buys the best people from other teams, goes through far biggest amount of testing it simply must defeat others (unless the team management is utterly incompetent). As a result the other managements must sooner or later come to a conclusion that spending those millions in this sport brings nothing. They pack and move somewhere else. Then we have what we had less than ten years a go with Loeb/Citroën combination when all other manufacturers left (M-Sport which is not a manufacturer is different case). The very same thing keeps repeating all the time. Recently we can name ERC/IRC which was in a similar way so much dominated by Škoda that every other team left. What happened next? Škoda left too because there was no interest in that championship anymore. The championship is now half dead. Do You think it won't happen in WRC if VW keeps dominating for several more years? It will happen and then VW moves into some other sport just like they did when they destroyed the competition in Dakar.

It's the job of FIA and the promoter to keep the manufacturers interested but how can You keep them in when one team keeps winning all the time? It's sad for sporting purist but the only way is to let them have some success from time to time. They must have something to sell and loosing every two weeks again and again with the very same competitor is very bad marketing if You ask me. I'm surprised Capito says what he says as he must be aware of all that. The only explanation is that VW acts just like in Dakar. They don't seem to care what's left when one day they stay as a lone winner of a deserted championship.

[AL14]

Mirek I say it also in a marketing point of view. If excitment is what make you reach marketing goals, then this is not exciting. I agree that for a new manufacturer entering the sport the chance to win soon is good for marketing but look at facts: we will have 5 factory teams from next year. The last two decided to enter the sport before this years rules...

[stefanvv]

But, motorsport at this level is not only for the drivers. It is also for spectators, TV viewers etc, (read: fans) to gather attention, to make it a sellable product, so it needs to be exiting.

Exactly this is here Capito made his point. WRC is hard to recognize for a casual spectator, he doesn't understand why the championship leader is handicapped by a guy ho enters few rallies for the year. He probably finds f1 much more exciting now, equal conditions, more real competition.
Imagine a sprint duel between a sportsman in a wheelchair taking part in para-Olympics running only 10m and Husein Bolt running 100m. Is it exciting? Or just humiliating? Who will watch such competition. No, sport is about competition.

[stefanvv]

Guys, have a look on that all stuff from higher perspective no matter how hard it is. Now for a while forget that motorsport is sport and look at it as on marketing tool which it actually is for all the manufacturers involved. They don't spend millions for helping some guy to win the title. They do it because they want to increase their image, to sell more of their products and to make more money.

As such motorsport on this level is all driven by cold money-driven management. And that's another issue because if one very rich team buys the best people from other teams, goes through far biggest amount of testing it simply must defeat others (unless the team management is utterly incompetent). As a result the other managements must sooner or later come to a conclusion that spending those millions in this sport brings nothing. They pack and move somewhere else. Then we have what we had less than ten years a go with Loeb/Citroën combination when all other manufacturers left (M-Sport which is not a manufacturer is different case). The very same thing keeps repeating all the time. Recently we can name ERC/IRC which was in a similar way so much dominated by Škoda that every other team left. What happened next? Škoda left too because there was no interest in that championship anymore. The championship is now half dead. Do You think it won't happen in WRC if VW keeps dominating for several more years? It will happen and then VW moves into some other sport just like they did when they destroyed the competition in Dakar.

It's the job of FIA and the promoter to keep the manufacturers interested but how can You keep them in when one team keeps winning all the time? It's sad for sporting purist but the only way is to let them have some success from time to time. They must have something to sell and loosing every two weeks again and again with the very same competitor is very bad marketing if You ask me. I'm surprised Capito says what he says as he must be aware of all that. The only explanation is that VW acts just like in Dakar. They don't seem to care what's left when one day they stay as a lone winner of a deserted championship.

I understand marketing is important and everybody wants to win, but this sounds more like lottery to me - everyone with few coins in his pocket can make millions by scratching some numbers.

[cali]

Exactly this is here Capito made his point. WRC is hard to recognize for a casual spectator, he doesn't understand why the championship leader is handicapped by a guy ho enters few rallies for the year. He probably finds f1 much more exciting now, equal conditions, more real competition.
Imagine a sprint duel between a sportsman in a wheelchair taking part in para-Olympics running only 10m and Husein Bolt running 100m. Is it exciting? Or just humiliating? Who will watch such competition. No, sport is about competition.
So according to your own words we should let Usain Bolt run 90m and the rest of the field 100m? Just because he is Usain Bolt (in our case Ogier)? Motorsport is not athletics and never will be. If WRC would run reverse starting order, then this would be the scenario. Also, you have to consider that on tarmac events running first will be huge advantage.

It's not so black and white as you would think at first.

[AL14]

So according to your own words we should let Usain Bolt run 90m and the rest of the field 100m? Just because he is Usain Bolt (in our case Ogier)?

Of course not, but neither force Usain Bolt to run 110m.

[Mirek]

Mirek I say it also in a marketing point of view. If excitment is what make you reach marketing goals, then this is not exciting. I agree that for a new manufacturer entering the sport the chance to win soon is good for marketing but look at facts: we will have 5 factory teams from next year. The last two decided to enter the sport before this years rules...

Introducing new rules is a long established way how to renew the interest in the motorsport. It's not always because the new rules would be better or anything, they just have to be new for everybody. It gives everybody a chance to start from zero and it always brings more attention both from the teams and audience. The interest can however fade very quickly and since it's near impossible to create fair rules which prevent domination of a superior team various form of handicaps appear from time to time in most of the motorsports branches. Road sweeping, different rules for privateers and works entrants, additional balast, reverse starting order in some circuit races etc. All has the same target and nothing of that is fair. The common point is that the best keep winning anyway, they just don't win every single event in the calendar and therefore don't discourage the competition to continue.

[TURBO43]

Here is my video of Portugal 2016

With drone shootage :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPLrt7MFaoQ

[stefanvv]

Also, you have to consider that on tarmac events running first will be huge advantage.

I don't find that exciting either, it is even worse scenario.

[stefanvv]

So according to your own words we should let Usain Bolt run 90m and the rest of the field 100m? Just because he is Usain Bolt (in our case Ogier)?

No, I just wont watch such sport

[cali]

No, I just wont watch such sport
Jeez, what's the solution then? Organizers have to sweep the roads before each pass?

[Rally Power]

We all probably agree on the essential: current starting order rules aren’t needed anymore. They were made to limit VW and Ogier dominance but now competitors are clearly showing they’ve progressed and the technical gap that existed since 2014 is being closed.

Meeke and Paddon wins are no longer lucky wins like those of Neuville in ’14 Germany or the Scott last year in Argentina. In this year MC and Sweden they were already matching Ogier pace and that came as a surprise to almost everyone (including VW guys). After Argentina and Portugal there are very few doubts left.

The funny thing is that VW staff just can’t accept it. It’d be pretty simple for them to say openly the obvious: look, these rules doensn’t makes sense anymore because we’re no longer superior, our competitors have managed to progress.

Admitting this is probably too much for VW’s proudly German ego and ironically they’re hurting themselves by not doing it in a clear way. Instead they’ve come out with the 2wd lines issue in Argentina and now in Portugal they’re saying there’s a problem about random entries of top competitors.

It sounds ridiculous and almost gives us the will to see them suffer a bit longer, but honestly the rules aren’t fair anymore even for Hyundai and Citroen: with these starting order issues they can’t claim undoubtedly that their wins are a deserved compensation for their development work or their drivers improved skills, as they truly are.

[dimviii]

I don't find that exciting either, it is even worse scenario.

but didnt hear ever Ogier moaning about this.
He likes to have advantage,but dont like when he hasnt .He wants all for his favour.
We are talking about a driver that in interviews have said, that he is trying to make a mess with extreme cutting,to make the road slower for the rest crews.

[stefanvv]

Jeez, what's the solution then? Organizers have to sweep the roads before each pass?

For me the ideal solution was QS. I still don't understand why they removed it. It adds additional excitement with choosing the starting order,choosing tyres, etc. And remember Ogier won't win it each time just of the same starting order rules on QS.

[stefanvv]

but didnt hear ever Ogier moaning about this.
He likes to have advantage,but dont like when he hasnt .He wants all for his favour.
We are talking about a driver that in interviews have said, that he is trying to make a mess with extreme cutting,to make the road slower for the rest crews.

This is the place where the other drivers should complain. I'm not defending Ogier, just the sport as such.

[cali]

For me the ideal solution was QS. I still don't understand why they removed it. It adds additional excitement with choosing the starting order,choosing tyres, etc. And remember Ogier won't win it each time just of the same starting order rules on QS.
Partially agree on this. Why QS was dumped in the first place?

[AL14]

Partially agree on this. Why QS was dumped in the first place?

Too many tricks and team tactics

[dimviii]

This is the place where the other drivers should complain. I'm not defending Ogier, just the sport as such.

thats not a solution, to complain each driver for their advantage.

[Mirek]

There is hell of a discussion about the current rules but how come nobody ever made so much noise about the old system used also in the national and some regional championships where it's up to the organizer to create the starting list? Even current WRC rules are more fair than that as they are strictly given with no place for personal preferences of the organization but such system has been used for decades with nobody so loudly complaining. It was a privilege to wear the No.1 even though it meant to sweep the road. Simply it always were that way that the best has had to prove he is worth the number he wears.

And as was said - there is also asphalt in the championship or events with standing dust. It's not like being first is always the worst what can happen to You. Also driving first means something from the audience recognition - it has always meant that the one who opens the rally is the one who everybody cheers for and looks forward to. It used to have a marketing meaning itself.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The QS continues in the ERC and there are no such issues/complaints...

The current WRC start order was purely brought in as an unofficial 'handicap' to give the lower placed drivers a better chance.

Plus it seems that Ogier isnt that bothered in terms of the Title.. he knows he will still win overall... its that he isnt able to win as many individual rallies and so improve his record in that respect...

[tc10a]

They should just do a simple draw for d1 and 2 and reversed 15 on d3.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

As far as I know every other form of motor sport has some sort of pre-race qualifying....

[Mirek]

Like marathon rallies which are the closest to classic rallying in their fundamentals?

[Franky]

I personally dislike quali stage. It should be either championship order or rally standings. QS is like pulling the shortest straws.

Like it has been said over and over. Someone will always be disadvantaged. Be a man.

[EstWRC]

I agree with Franky. IMHO The most fair one is the 2014 one where championship order on day one and rally order on other days. I just saw in Twitter that Paddon also recommends this.

[Rallyper]

And nowadays radiocommunication isn´t an issue either. Makes it more proper to do championshiporder only D1.
One more thing, the dribbling with tyres. Organizer should decide which tyres shall be used, so no fuzzing about that either, should be best rules.

[seb_sh]

My suspicion is that the main reason for this is Ogiers character. For him it isn't enough to win the championship, he wants to beat every record ever set, to be the greatest of all time (and we all know what that means), and he sees that this will be impossible if these rules continue, and I would suspect that he has even threatened to quit rallying all together if this does not change, and I suspect Ogiers tuntrums after Portugal lead Capito to have to react, to show Ogier that he stands 100% behind him.

I think this hits the nail on the head. Basically you can talk about records before and after Loeb. Before if you won more than 3 rallies in a season you were hot stuff and the top drivers had around 25 wins. Loeb completely rewrote the record books. Now Ogier wants to emulate that and while he will win another title, he will not get 10 wins in a season so that's why he is complaining. All his career he has compared himself to Loeb and for him, so far, Loeb has been the only real rival.

Now regardless of Ogier, road order rules have kept changing back and forth so much I can't even remember all of them. The one we have now initially seems the most unbalanced but in fact it makes for the best show. It disadvantages the championship leader on some rallies so potentially tightens the championship and it sets up day 3 for potential come-backs from first couple of drivers who have been disadvantaged by sweeping. The running order also makes sense to the fans on the first days and then creates a nice crescendo for the TV Power Stage.

So yeah that's how I see it, I think the system is not so bad for the WRC. It's only bad for Ogier beating Loeb's records. Maybe others like Meeke and Paddon will start to challenge him so he can have something else to focus on than Loeb.

In reality you will never have a perfect system, as others have pointed out the difference between dry gravel, wet gravel, dusty gravel, snowy tarmac, dry tarmac, wet tarmac is so wide no system will ever be "fair". But rally is not about "fair" it's about adapting to the conditions and extracting the best result you can, it's about unpredictable things and it's about being able to put together a full season and win the title.

[ziggysony]

video from a fantastic rally portugal 2016 enjoy https://youtu.be/dlRPtzat48A

[seb_sh]

We all probably agree on the essential: current starting order rules aren’t needed anymore. They were made to limit VW and Ogier dominance but now competitors are clearly showing they’ve progressed and the technical gap that existed since 2014 is being closed.

Meeke and Paddon wins are no longer lucky wins like those of Neuville in ’14 Germany or the Scott last year in Argentina. In this year MC and Sweden they were already matching Ogier pace and that came as a surprise to almost everyone (including VW guys). After Argentina and Portugal there are very few doubts left.

The funny thing is that VW staff just can’t accept it. It’d be pretty simple for them to say openly the obvious: look, these rules doensn’t makes sense anymore because we’re no longer superior, our competitors have managed to progress.

Admitting this is probably too much for VW’s proudly German ego and ironically they’re hurting themselves by not doing it in a clear way. Instead they’ve come out with the 2wd lines issue in Argentina and now in Portugal they’re saying there’s a problem about random entries of top competitors.

It sounds ridiculous and almost gives us the will to see them suffer a bit longer, but honestly the rules aren’t fair anymore even for Hyundai and Citroen: with these starting order issues they can’t claim undoubtedly that their wins are a deserved compensation for their development work or their drivers improved skills, as they truly are.

When the rules won't be needed to "counter" VW and Ogier then with our without the rules Ogier and VW will not need to complain because others will be just as much affected. At the moment they still have some advantage but the rules bring them down among the others, that's why they are complaining more now than ever!

[Mirek]

I understand marketing is important and everybody wants to win, but this sounds more like lottery to me - everyone with few coins in his pocket can make millions by scratching some numbers.

You completely missed the point.

[Rally Power]

When the rules won't be needed to "counter" VW and Ogier then with our without the rules Ogier and VW will not need to complain because others will be just as much affected. At the moment they still have some advantage but the rules bring them down among the others, that's why they are complaining more now than ever!

Agree, even if it’s difficult to say they still have an advantage over the competition. Overall, it would be positive for WRC to have ‘14 rules back. The series doesn’t need to have this starting order issue as their main focus.

[wia5958]

Long and short of it its the rules. If vw and ogier are the only people complaining so be it. Most national and international rallys around the world work on a seeding plan best drivers and best cars on the road first and they still manage to win. Its only become a problem as the gap between ogier vw and the rest of the field has decreased. He can go after loebs titles all he wants but to me and im sure a lot of others he will never be classed as one of the greats due to his çonstant complaining if things arent going his way. There are a lot of drivers who have won less rallys, championships and held less records than ogier and theyl still be further up the list of greats for me than he ever will. Anyway lookin forward to sardinia where im sure we are going to see an angry frustrated ogier and this is when he seems most likely to make a mistake. Im just curious what the excuse will be

[stefanvv]

I think this hits the nail on the head. Basically you can talk about records before and after Loeb. Before if you won more than 3 rallies in a season you were hot stuff and the top drivers had around 25 wins. Loeb completely rewrote the record books. Now Ogier wants to emulate that and while he will win another title, he will not get 10 wins in a season so that's why he is complaining. All his career he has compared himself to Loeb and for him, so far, Loeb has been the only real rival.

Now regardless of Ogier, road order rules have kept changing back and forth so much I can't even remember all of them. The one we have now initially seems the most unbalanced but in fact it makes for the best show. It disadvantages the championship leader on some rallies so potentially tightens the championship and it sets up day 3 for potential come-backs from first couple of drivers who have been disadvantaged by sweeping. The running order also makes sense to the fans on the first days and then creates a nice crescendo for the TV Power Stage.

So yeah that's how I see it, I think the system is not so bad for the WRC. It's only bad for Ogier beating Loeb's records. Maybe others like Meeke and Paddon will start to challenge him so he can have something else to focus on than Loeb.

In reality you will never have a perfect system, as others have pointed out the difference between dry gravel, wet gravel, dusty gravel, snowy tarmac, dry tarmac, wet tarmac is so wide no system will ever be "fair". But rally is not about "fair" it's about adapting to the conditions and extracting the best result you can, it's about unpredictable things and it's about being able to put together a full season and win the title.

You contradict Yourself.

[stefanvv]

You completely missed the point.

No I didn't. Having random winner to satisfy someone is nothing but a lottery.

[Mirek]

No I didn't. Having random winner to satisfy someone is nothing but a lottery.

As I said You completely missed the point.

[stefanvv]

As I said You completely missed the point.

ok, I missed the point. And.... are the people happy?

[seb_sh]

You contradict Yourself.

Care to elaborate?

[stefanvv]

Care to elaborate?

I can elaborate. You emphasize on numbers, but when Ogier makes them it is bad, when others are doing them it is good. I can't see the simple logic behind this.

[danon]

https://scontent.fsof2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13254853_10153840134483952_3128283562743191519_o.j pg
https://scontent.fsof2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13268109_10153840134503952_5683979234636724972_o.j pg
http://s5.postimg.org/g6i9cbutj/image.jpg
https://scontent.fsof2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13268060_10153840134543952_2604109575983646054_o.j pg
https://scontent.fsof2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13268155_10153840135513952_8685617981811621998_o.j pg

[Rally Power]

Somehow I've miss the Yaris on the jump...;)

[Munkvy]

What I don't get is how Capito thinks that the general public will know the difference between Meeke and Ogier as far as championship standing or how many rounds they are doing. They won't be looking in depth at the championship, just watching highlights on TV or reading articles in media/social media.

So unless the promoter promotes it, no one will know other than people who are serious fans. And the serious fans know the other side - the disadvantages Meeke has to contend with, such as an old car that is no longer being developed, being run by a team who aren't even focused on the WRC this year and of course the lack of seat time competing.

This definitely smacks of the same approach VW had with the emissions scandal, they didn't care about consequences to anyone else, they were only focused on their own sales. And in the WRC they don't seem to consider the wider impact they might have on the sport as others have alluded to. Very selfish really.

[AndyRAC]

I saw a tweet, one of many basically saying the same thing; " the general public don't care, or know about WRC" so his point is irrelevant.

[Lundefaret]

I personally would like a system that is the most fair and balanced with in the spirit of rallying, and for me I think the 2014 system is the solution, but would off course be interested in other views as well (qualifying etc I personally dont think is part of rallying.)

But if we take Ogier, and his starting order campaign, which I in many ways understand, his arguments are heavily biased, and very subjective, and the only basis is whats best for him, in his efforts to beat Loebs records.
He doesn't care about the sport, he doesn't care about the fans, and he doesnt even care about his own team members, which all is perfectly fine for an athlete, but means that the whole sport cant be governed from his arguments.

In preperations to Rally Argentina, I watched "a little" photage of the rally from 2015, both onboards and outbards, and though we know this already, there is no doubt about the fact that Ogier cuts to make life harder for the guys behind. Ok, thats also understandable, he is out to win. But should there be no end to ruthlessness on the way to winning? Should everything be allowed and accepted?
A question that the Volkswagen team should ask them self internally, is that if its wise in the long term to base their opinions on a person that is by cutting - and so throwing big rocks out on the road - trying to end the rally for the guy coming next, even if that is his own team mate.

From Ogiers perspective I have no problem understanding this, he is out to win, so he thinks mostly about him self. Ok. But Volkswagen is on a bigger mission, not only catering for Ogiers records, but by representing a brand, and its brands values.
Capitos statement seems based more on the fear of losing Ogier out of the team, or out of rallying as a whole, than a general strategy.

Ogiers weakest link as a driver is rough stages and events. He likes roads to be smooth, and he have said so many times. So he doesnt really care about starting position on tarmac, because he believes he can win from any starting position there, but it is the rough rallies that stand in his way.

I agree with those that say that we could revert to 2014 rules, or if somebody comes up with a better plan, but I am still surprised by Volkswagen and Capito in this matter. Effective in getting changes done it may be, but elegant it is not...

Rallying will never be fair

[seb_sh]

I can elaborate. You emphasize on numbers, but when Ogier makes them it is bad, when others are doing them it is good. I can't see the simple logic behind this.

Not exactly. It's not bad that he wants to break records it's that he complains about rules all the time just with this in mind. I never said others doing records is good, or that Loeb's dominance was good. In fact he also complained sometimes.

On the flipside I hope he gets opposition from Paddon and Meeke so that we have direct fights like in Tommi/Carlos/Colin times.

[Rallyper]

On the flipside I hope he gets opposition from Paddon and Meeke so that we have direct fights like in Tommi/Carlos/Colin times.

Tommi/Carlos/Colin/Richard times. ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

To look at this from the other side... are people honestly that satisfied when someone beats Ogier when they have completely different road conditions ?

Were Paddon and Meeke's recent wins as creditable as Ogier's when he wins from the front ...

[cali]

To look at this from the other side... are people honestly that satisfied when someone beats Ogier when they have completely different road conditions ?

Were Paddon and Meeke's recent wins as creditable as Ogier's when he wins from the front ...
In rallying there's no such thing as equal road condition bcs it changes after every pass.

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk

[EstWRC]

so, he wanted to burn whole portugal down? :rolleyes:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124469/wrc-portugal-clerk-defends-fire-crash-actions

[Rallyper]

Lack of warnings very extraordinary.

[PLuto]

so, he wanted to burn whole portugal down? :rolleyes:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124469/wrc-portugal-clerk-defends-fire-crash-actions

I was reading the words of clerk of the course and I must say that I completely disagree with him. Main problem is that he is watching it only from rally perspective - stage is not blocked, nobody is hurt, so we can continue. But rallysport is also about symbiosis with nature and local people. Stages are done on public or private places and you must do maximum not to destroy them. His decision about not stopping stage in this situation was completely wrong...

[Rallyper]

From Emil Bergkvist Facebook:


"Mental utmaning i Portugal

Rallye de Portugal gick inte enligt planerna för Emil Bergkvist och Joakim Sjöberg. En rad händelser bortanför teamets kontroll kom i vägen för en framskjuten placering. Starten på torsdagen i teamets Citroën DS3 R5 driven av J-Motorsport gick bra och man var med bland de absolut snabbaste i WRC2-fältet. Efter ytterligare tre dagar med bra sträcktider varvade med problem som i många fall hör sporten till, så som en punktering, fick de två dock kasta in handduken på söndagen då man tvingades bryta mellan sista sträckan och slutmålet. Detta pga orsaker som fortfarande utreds.

”Vi ska inte påstå att vi är nöjda med helgen, men vi tar med oss många positiva erfarenheter trots hur helgen fortlöp. Vi satte en bra tid på torsdagen och när väl allt stämde på söndagen var vi snabbaste privatbil på Power Stage och kunde visa att vi mycket väl hänger med de snabbaste i klassen.” Emil Bergkvist fortsätter; ”Att vi sedan faktiskt har fått köra alla sträckor i rallyt och fått den erfarenheten är mycket värt för oss som team.”

Co-driver Joakim Sjöberg imponeras av sin närmaste kollegas ovilja att tappa modet. ”Emil visade hela helgen en fantastisk kämpaglöd och vägrade låta motgångar stå i vår väg. Trots att vi inte hade någon position att köra för på söndagen så fortsatte Emil att pressa, testa inställningar och köra med målet att sätta bra sträcktider. Det är inte lätt i det läget vi befann oss i då.”

Nästa planerade start för Emil och Joakim är första juli i Rally Poland."

[Mirek]

To look at this from the other side... are people honestly that satisfied when someone beats Ogier when they have completely different road conditions ?

Were Paddon and Meeke's recent wins as creditable as Ogier's when he wins from the front ...

Were they satisfied when someone beat Loeb or Makinen or Kankkunen or whoever who was in that moment sweeping?

[dimviii]

Were Paddon and Meeke's recent wins as creditable as Ogier's when he wins from the front ...

were Ogiers wins creditable when Loeb was cleaning the road and Ogier also wanted same status against a 7 times champion?

[N.O.T]

The best system is for the leader to clean the first day then run in reverse, the way rallies are nowadays is just around 60k maximum of sweeping, if you are a rally driver and not a dog you can overcome that easily.

[dimviii]

The best system is for the leader to clean the first day then run in reverse, the way rallies are nowadays is just around 60k maximum of sweeping, if you are a rally driver and not a dog you can overcome that easily.

agree and i give you the best photo of Portugal

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ci6NF9eUUAEQAQD.jpg

[PLuto]

The best system is for the leader to clean the first day then run in reverse, the way rallies are nowadays is just around 60k maximum of sweeping, if you are a rally driver and not a dog you can overcome that easily.

Why not do it like in the history - the best driver always first on the road? First day according to the actual championship standings and other days according to the results of actual rally? In the past it was working...

[dimviii]

nice video including the small clip Kielder posted with Meeke.More drivers from same spot
https://youtu.be/N3A0F4rA_z0

[seb_sh]

Why not do it like in the history - the best driver always first on the road? First day according to the actual championship standings and other days according to the results of actual rally? In the past it was working...

The problem with that was many times people slowed down/stopped/"had a problem" on the last stage of the day in order to gain a good starting position.

IMHO the best way would be to have championship order on day 1 and then reverse. I think that current system is the 2nd best after that. Any other system has more or bigger 'flaws'.

[Mintexmemory]

To look at this from the other side... are people honestly that satisfied when someone beats Ogier when they have completely different road conditions ?

Were Paddon and Meeke's recent wins as creditable as Ogier's when he wins from the front ...

In a word yes! If it were only about road position then Mikkelsen should have won the last 2 rallies. Dealing with a combination of factors such as experience, car development, seat time, mental attitude (to identify 4) means that any victory against a multiple world champion who hasn't gifted victory, by binning it, is valid. No mistake Meeke and Paddon have both overcome handicaps equivalent to 6 stages of sweeping, and it is low and craven of VW to be bringing the sport into disrepute.
If this were a close championship then others would be alternating the sweeping and presumably VW would find something different to moan about. It is a ****ing competition and they are dominating, presumably VW remember the lessons of history and are expecting force of numbers (Hyundai) and superior technology (Citroen) to overwhelm them in the end so they are determined to milk every advantage they can swing their way! If VW want a level playing field then manufacture 15 Polos for sale to the highest bidder and create Formula VW WRC!!

[Mirek]

Why is it actually so wrong that the best driver has to cope with the usually worst road position? If theoretically anyone gets in front in the championship standings he would then face the same issue.

[PLuto]

The problem with that was many times people slowed down/stopped/"had a problem" on the last stage of the day in order to gain a good starting position.

IMHO the best way would be to have championship order on day 1 and then reverse. I think that current system is the 2nd best after that. Any other system has more or bigger 'flaws'.

I still dont agree with the reverse order. Why somebody from the field should be disadvantaged by starting position to be first? In the past, the fastest driver was always first on the road and it was not problem for them. Nobody was complaining... And with this slowing down before end of leg? Why not, it is part of tactics and if they want to slow down... But now without split times in the car, it will not be so easy to slow down "enough"...

[mousti]

From Emil Bergkvist Facebook:


"Mental utmaning i Portugal

Rallye de Portugal gick inte enligt planerna för Emil Bergkvist och Joakim Sjöberg. En rad händelser bortanför teamets kontroll kom i vägen för en framskjuten placering. Starten på torsdagen i teamets Citroën DS3 R5 driven av J-Motorsport gick bra och man var med bland de absolut snabbaste i WRC2-fältet. Efter ytterligare tre dagar med bra sträcktider varvade med problem som i många fall hör sporten till, så som en punktering, fick de två dock kasta in handduken på söndagen då man tvingades bryta mellan sista sträckan och slutmålet. Detta pga orsaker som fortfarande utreds.

”Vi ska inte påstå att vi är nöjda med helgen, men vi tar med oss många positiva erfarenheter trots hur helgen fortlöp. Vi satte en bra tid på torsdagen och när väl allt stämde på söndagen var vi snabbaste privatbil på Power Stage och kunde visa att vi mycket väl hänger med de snabbaste i klassen.” Emil Bergkvist fortsätter; ”Att vi sedan faktiskt har fått köra alla sträckor i rallyt och fått den erfarenheten är mycket värt för oss som team.”

Co-driver Joakim Sjöberg imponeras av sin närmaste kollegas ovilja att tappa modet. ”Emil visade hela helgen en fantastisk kämpaglöd och vägrade låta motgångar stå i vår väg. Trots att vi inte hade någon position att köra för på söndagen så fortsatte Emil att pressa, testa inställningar och köra med målet att sätta bra sträcktider. Det är inte lätt i det läget vi befann oss i då.”

Nästa planerade start för Emil och Joakim är första juli i Rally Poland."
Yep Poland is next for him, no Ypres.

[AL14]

2014 is the best deal. I still can't understand how some of you enjoy a competition where you already know from the beginning that some drivers have no chances to win...

[PLuto]

2014 is the best deal. I still can't understand how some of you enjoy a competition where you already know from the beginning that some drivers have no chances to win...

I still dont think that 2014 is the best deal. I can see it in ERC, when they are reversing top ten after first leg. Nobody wants to finish on 10th or 9th position, because it will be big disadvantage next day to fight for places in top ten. And they are not so strong drivers like the best ones to be able to reduce this disadvantage...

[Rallyper]

Isn´t it weight compensation in some racing classes? How is that doing?

[AL14]

I still dont think that 2014 is the best deal. I can see it in ERC, when they are reversing top ten after first leg. Nobody wants to finish on 10th or 9th position, because it will be big disadvantage next day to fight for places in top ten. And they are not so strong drivers like the best ones to be able to reduce this disadvantage...
Go fast and you will not be disadvantaged... where is the problem?

[Mirek]

Go fast and you will not be disadvantaged... where is the problem?

You can reverse it. What is it good for to further slow down the slower ones?

I would personally always put superally drivers as the first ones on the road in second and third day. The only issue is that their number is not guaranteed.

[stefanvv]

I would personally always put superally drivers as the first ones on the road in second and third day. The only issue is that their number is not guaranteed.

Wasn't that the case in 2015? Ogier still had winning everything.

[Mirek]

Wasn't that the case in 2015? Ogier still had winning everything.

You don't like it?

[AL14]

Rally2 drivers first + they will be one after another so no big difference (it's not the same reversed because in Sardinia you will have Latvala sixth...)
+ In tarmac-wet gravel-ice they are advantaged.

Of course it's not perfect system but i think we all agree there doesn't exist one

[Mirek]

Rally2 drivers first + they will be one after another so no big difference (it's not the same reversed because in Sardinia you will have Latvala sixth...)
+ In tarmac-wet gravel-ice they are advantaged.

That's true but on the other hand they equalize the conditions for the following drivers behind them which may not be that bad idea either. Anyway You can always set different sweeping conditions according to the surface as that is clearly defined for each event in the calendar.

[stefanvv]

You don't like it?

As for me I would like more him to win with current regulation:D

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Truly awful Rally Portugal photo from @World...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/EddieFocus/badddd_zps7afffmaz.jpg

Makes you appreciate the usual lakes and flowers... ;)

[tommeke_B]

I don't really understand the whole discussion about the starting order. The rules are what they are, it's up to every driver to do what they can with it. Loeb, Mäkinen etc have been first on the road so many times, who remembers them complaining? On a tarmac events, the ones starting around 10th place are disadvantaged a lot in comparison to the first on the road, who is complaining about it? Ogier is always whining about one thing or another... He's one of the best drivers we've ever seen, with one of the worst personalities. The crap both Ogier and Capito have been selling to the press is probably the worst thing that could have happened to the WRC. It angers me when I see Capito saying "one-shot drivers devalue WRC", while he is the one who was getting close to destroying all fundamentals of the sport with his useless final-stage-plan...

[focus206]

It angers me when I see Capito saying "one-shot drivers devalue WRC", while he is the one who was getting close to destroying all fundamentals of the sport with his useless final-stage-plan...

This. Plus "one-shot drivers" when Meeke competed on 3 WRC events out of 5 until Portugal... I get shivers just to think how it would be if they would follow all his ideas

[bluuford]

so, he wanted to burn whole portugal down? :rolleyes:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124469/wrc-portugal-clerk-defends-fire-crash-actions
This called attack your opposition. It happens when you have done something completely wrong, and defending yourself is pointless, then the only way is to attack. Well known in politics ;)

[seb_sh]

This. Plus "one-shot drivers" when Meeke competed on 3 WRC events out of 5 until Portugal... I get shivers just to think how it would be if they would follow all his ideas

To be honest I think some of his recent comments are just thrown in the wind because he knows he's leaving anyway so he can afford to say some random things.

[dimviii]

spectator of the year

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_05_2016/post-3143-0-20535300-1464212038.jpg

[Sardalense]

He is not a common spectator, it's Jaanus Ree http://jree.ee/

[Franky]

The caption for that photo should be "When you need a bigger monopod ..."

[GigiGalliNo1]

Truly awful Rally Portugal photo from @World...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/EddieFocus/badddd_zps7afffmaz.jpg

Makes you appreciate the usual lakes and flowers... ;)

Fact.

[dimviii]

Camilli incar ss10
https://youtu.be/y-_WBYYVJzU


https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13266083_1182854901746479_2272517729995154824_n.jp g?oh=ab59c94bef569217a7e6e1d7a062c5f5&oe=57E2E1B1

[GigiGalliNo1]

Photo of the month. #1 from Portugal.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160527/3cdc49766b5fbba042d4db19828e09f2.jpg

[Rally Power]

Ree's and Lavadinho's photos are great (as usual). I just feel sorry there're so few photos about the two Unesco's world heritage towns visited by the rally: Guimarães and Porto. Hope next year they can take more shots on those amazing sceneries.

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/l/t1.0-9/13239302_1025758000834736_1276267108946393996_n.jp g?oh=1bbd01ef0430b5d70b8f8d04e388b01e&oe=57CBB09E
https://pt-pt.facebook.com/pregoafundo/
https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13260002_981933985177223_7998626386259631418_n.jpg ?oh=22b738ffafd69af67dc7de6ad05548a0&oe=57D5FA25
http://www.rallydeportugal.pt/gallery.aspx?menuid=31

[devil's land]

Ptaszek flight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-3iEjgDQ6w

[kookie]

A few shots of mine before the Sardinia :) Enjoy!
975
977
978

Full album > https://www.facebook.com/racemediaSI/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1140396749315130

[kookie]

A few shots of mine before the Sardinia :) Enjoy!
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13235190_1140397889315016_2952836142653998367_o.jp g
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13268307_1143624795658992_8526531211401539878_o.jp g
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13235084_1143625395658932_3350572291192335913_o.jp g

Full album > https://www.facebook.com/racemediaSI/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1140396749315130

[dimviii]

^^ excellent photos,thank you.

[kookie]

Thank you, @dimviii

[dimviii]

krismeeke#StoryTime #wrc #motogp @valeyellow46! ������
i was this close to strangling Capito after he said my talent devalues the WRC.....


https://www.instagram.com/p/BGPZ-0ErN6N/

[stefanvv]

he said my talent devalues the WRC.....

Capito never said such stupidity

[EightGear]

krismeeke#StoryTime #wrc #motogp @valeyellow46! ������
i was this close to strangling Capito after he said my talent devalues the WRC.....


https://www.instagram.com/p/BGPZ-0ErN6N/

It's a comment from somebody else, Kris didn't type/say that himself.

[Rally Power]

Fantastic video from DJI drones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeQljJbXaN8