Rally Wrc Mexicooo 2016

[AL14]

Tanak lost stage for one tenth again. This time from Sordo.

[Mirek]

Just realized that there are 9 super special stages in this rally. Is that really needed? I understand they want to show something to spectators but there shall be some limit if the organizers don't see it themselves.

[RS]

That's stage win N10 for Latvala in this rally!

Not really a surprise when he has a swept clean road for two days. He deserves credit for keeping it on the road but i would rather see a fair fight.

[GravelBen]

Just realized that there are 9 super special stages in this rally. Is that really needed? I understand they want to show something to spectators but there shall be some limit if the organizers don't see it themselves.

I thought it was a bit of a waste of time too. Though I wondered if there might be some obscure FIA regulation about average stage length, so they have a bunch of tiny ones to balance out the long one?

[dimviii]

Julian Porter
‏@The_Rally_Guru

The driver of car 84 felt bad until Andreas Mikkelsen crashed in the same place on the second pass of Otates.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cc1sSeaWwAIi8HA.jpg

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cc1hvbyUcAAkuaJ.jpg:large
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[dimviii]

borl video leg 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDVoZF6BYRU&feature=youtu.be&a


Timo Anis photos
https://scontent.fath4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/12801411_970470046366231_5904267286486949307_n.jpg ?oh=7ac7cade8adacc1e49b5f3b36440749b&oe=575E0A32

https://www.facebook.com/timoanisphotography/photos_stream?ref=page_internal

[dimviii]

Mikkelsen and Neuville will not restart.

[EstWRC]

damn, Tänak again lost out so close for a stage win. Would have been a bonus for him and dmack after a difficult rally.

Cant wait for the 80km stage to start already. i have a feeling we will see a big drama :p

[EstWRC]

this is getting ridiculous

Eric Camilli hit trouble when he made contact with a stone that had been dislodged by rally-leader Jari-Matti Latvala and broke the steering of his Ecoboost-powered Ford Fiesta RS WRC

you can see it here, Neuvilles crash also included https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLVyRAt2cxbxuG4plfpjVCc3Y9Jl8QsexC&v=Y_Qvx8XnMl0

[pantealex]

Mikkelsen and Neuville will not restart.

Sure? Mikkelsen is on startlist of official Mexicorally page?

[Eric]

Sure? Mikkelsen is on startlist of official Mexicorally page?

"BILLIOT Jérémie ‏@planetemarcus
#WRC VW confirms no rally2 for Mikkelsen on Sunday / Also Neuville will not restart DAY4 @RallyMexico"

[Quad]

So... what's going on with Neuville ? He will not go too far only on his reputation from 2013, and with such driving I can see him loosing seat . From last season he is crashing over and over again

[N.O.T]

Neuville is at a stalemate for some years now, the speed is there most of the times, but time is running out.

[Fly]

Neuville is at a stalemate for some years now, the speed is there most of the times, but time is running out.

Neuville, Latvala, Mikkelsen, Paddon or Tanak have the speed. But they lack consistency. I don't see anyone on the rally scene with enough skills to become a threat for Ogier.

[seb_sh]

Neuville, Latvala, Mikkelsen, Paddon or Tanak have the speed. But they lack consistency. I don't see anyone on the rally scene with enough skills to become a threat for Ogier.

Unfortunately Neuville at the moment seems will become a second Duval. Latvala as usual drives well after he has a big points deficit. Tanak is fast but has problems with consistency and risks.

For the other two I am not sure yet. This year is important for Mikkelsen, he has to raise his game and consistently mix with his team-mates like he did occasionally last year. Paddon is still learning and improving, it's too soon to discount him.

[EstWRC]

Tänak took someones rooster out on SS11

http://s8.postimg.org/dds2s2mtx/kukk.png

[AL14]

Cant wait for the 80km stage to start already. i have a feeling we will see a big drama :p

On the contrary I think that due to the exceptionality of the stage drivers will be more focused than usual and most of them will finish it. Also, gaps are huge so even driving 1s per km slower will keep almost all of them in the position they are now.

[dimviii]

#tyre info: Ostberg/Paddon: 2 LTX Force H4 +2S Ogier: 3H+1S Camilli: 4S Latvala/Sordo: 4H #wrc #RallyMexico

[Fast Eddie WRC]

One Soft tyre for Ogier and no spare tyres for most.. bit odd.

[AL14]

One Soft tyre for Ogier and no spare tyres for most.. bit odd.

yes. Wonder why they choosed to avoid spare tyres. Anyone has an idea?

[Oliverk]

yes. Wonder why they choosed to avoid spare tyres. Anyone has an idea?

Wrong info prob.

[wwbroe]

Ostberg fastest sofar on splits;)

[wwbroe]

Ogier pushing hard, what is the plan? Making JM suffer so he goes off?

[wwbroe]

Second split missing for Hayden, just a GPS problem i hope?

Edit: split is now showing, and also third split, fastest for the moment.;)

[AL14]

Latvala will suffer this stage anyway. Even with a 5 min lead. :)
I was pretty sure Ogier was going to push hard. but more the 1s/km will be enough for JML if he manage to reach the finish without problems.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

STAT: Mads Ostberg won Rally Mexico’s longest stage in 2014 and 2015. ;)

[wwbroe]

Both Ogier and Latvalla are way faster underway as Mads is.....

[Moriarty]

yes. Wonder why they choosed to avoid spare tyres. Anyone has an idea?
Twitter limit for characters

[wwbroe]

Camilli is not moving anymore on Live Maps in WRC+, problems for him??


Edit: he is on trhe move again, and still first on the road, problem again with live tracking.:mad:

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier not cruising that's for sure... awesome speed.

[wwbroe]

Ogier just 5 sec faster as JML on second split, that will not be enough:)

[N.O.T]

It would be nice if those mentally handicapped people in charge of the WRC+/wrc.com would put at which Km is every split so we could have a general idea about the speed and how close to the end the drivers are... they cannot even get simple little things right.

[wwbroe]

It would be nice if those mentally handicapped people in charge of the WRC+/wrc.com would put at which Km is every split so we could have a general idea about the speed and how close to the end the drivers are... they cannot even get simple little things right.

I must agree with you, too many issues...

[hari]

It would be nice if those mentally handicapped people in charge of the WRC+/wrc.com would put at which Km is every split so we could have a general idea about the speed and how close to the end the drivers are... they cannot even get simple little things right.

Split : km
1 at 10.80
2 at 19.90
3 at 30.90
4 at 41.60
5 at 50.00
6 at 60.30
7 at 71.30

[Fast Eddie WRC]

We should have access to exactly the same info/screens as the WRC Live Radio commentators.

[Moriarty]

Hope that Suninen is going. No splits for him.

[Sch17]

Paddon has lost a lot of time

[hari]

Hope that Suninen is going. No splits for him.
Suninen is moving normally

[Tauri_J]

Paddon has lost a lot of time

nope

[EstWRC]

Camilli finished the stage

http://www.upload.ee/image/5623473/1244880854.jpg

[wwbroe]

40 seconds ahead of Guerra, Malcolm wil be very pleased.:D

[Eli]

Camilli finished the stage

http://www.upload.ee/image/5623473/1244880854.jpg

at least he completed 80 kilometers of the rally without crashing...that's 20% of the rally..nice...

[TWRC]

at least he completed 80 kilometers of the rally without crashing...that's 20% of the rally..nice...
He can still crash on the power stage for the hat-trick

[wwbroe]

The two Volkswagen drivers are bashing everybody else, look at the time differences.

[wwbroe]

Tanak over one minute faster as Camilli, good performance by Ott

[Eli]

He can still crash on the power stage for the hat-trick

wouldn't mind if Ogier would crash now, would give an actual chance for anybody to try and catch him in the driver's standings, especially after Mikklesen's exit

[wwbroe]

Jari-Matti is taking a little bit of time back from Seb on penultimate split

[wwbroe]

Wowh, Paddon over a minute faster as Tanak...

[EstWRC]

not a surprise really...

[wwbroe]

But only 3,6 sec faster as Mads, so he cannot pass him

[Moriarty]

The two Volkswagen drivers are bashing everybody else, look at the time differences.

Others is just cruising to the finish. Job done.

[Eli]

boring rally...as usuall, unless Latvala/Mikklesen can get his act together after this rally, Ogier will take the title by the time we get to Deutschland

[wwbroe]

Others is just cruising to the finish. Job done.

That is true, but they could cruise easily as well. I suppose Ogier just wants to put some pressure on JML.

[EstWRC]

Ogier a minute faster than anyone else, except Latvala

[Moriarty]

Who will take last bonus point in Power Stage?

[EstWRC]

Paddon or Mads

[AL14]

My previsions were right. Everybody wen through safe. Would have been nice if there were some battles on but unfortunately the gaps were very high. Still good that this stage was on sunday.

[N.O.T]

too little drama for such a huge stage.

[Ucci]

too little drama for such a huge stage.

Indeed

[Mirek]

I find this format with several huge stages and a lot of useless superspecials unfortunate and very boring for spectators and internet audience. Nice that they tried something else than others but I don't think it worked.

[Moriarty]

Any link to live stream of PowerStage?

[AL14]

I think they should go back to the 2014 starting position rule. We would have had a closer fight between JM and Seb...

[dimviii]

106 pages notes had Ingrassia just for ss20.

[N.O.T]

I think they should go back to the 2014 starting position rule. We would have had a closer fight between JM and Seb...

usually the close fight lasts for 2-3 stages, then latvala breaks.

[AL14]

usually the close fight lasts for 2-3 stages, then latvala breaks.

It's better than nothing. :)

[dimviii]

Torstein Eriksen ‏@TorsteinEriksen

REGROUP: Relaxing Area and Regroup before Power Stage of @RallyMexico! #WRC @MSportLtd @MadsOstberg


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[dimviii]

Sun 12:03 - SS21: Two-minute delay
One of the safety cars has been held up in stage. New start time: 1210hrs

Sun 11:55 - Stage info: SS21
Agua Zarca Power Stage, 16.47km. The final live TV Power Stage is a repeat of Saturday afternoon's test, itself a shorter version of the Ibarrilla stage and finishing at the famous wigwams. It is littered with big dips and compressions and contains a blisteringly fast section in which drivers will be flat out for almost 2km before negotiating a new purpose-built jump alongside the wigwams just before the finish.

[AL14]

God, they're putting the interviews also now. And they are the same as yesterday! For god sakes they must have a problem with their mental health indeed.

[EstWRC]

what an horrible driving style from Camilli, i holded my breath every corner

[stefanvv]

God, they're putting the interviews also now. And they are the same as yesterday! For god sakes they must have a problem with their mental health indeed.

Bertelli's was noticeable: too much ice on Monte, too much snow in Sweden, now we have proper rally.
He forgot to mention lack of power at this altitude.

[AL14]

Bertelli's was noticeable: too much ice on Monte, too much snow in Sweden, now we have proper rally.
He forgot to mention lack of power at this altitude.

If I were his mother I would disinherit him because of that hat.

[AL14]

what an horrible driving style from Camilli, i holded my breath every corner

lol, Bertelli faster!

[stefanvv]

If I were his mother I would disinherit him because of that hat.

didn't noticed it, but he is faster than Wilson's favourite now:D

[dimviii]

#Tyre info: Camilli 5 LTX Force S4 Ostberg: 5H Paddon/Latvala/Ogier: 2S+3H Sordo: 5S

[stefanvv]

Paddon is breaking the charts down, and of course we don't see it live

[Racing Ka]

Gongratulations to Tsuninen! Perfect drive.

[Moriarty]

Slowstberg is now second in championship

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

God, they're putting the interviews also now. And they are the same as yesterday! For god sakes they must have a problem with their mental health indeed.
Facepalm intensifies, and unsubscribing ensues

[dimviii]

Thierry Neuville (Hyundai i20) was again victim of Mexican treacherous roads, strewn with stones, this Saturday at WRC Rally Mexico. The Belgian has made a mistake on Saturday morning (ES 12), while he was aligned in Rallye 2 from Saturday morning, after leaving the road on Friday (ES4). Taken to hospital for routine examinations, Neuville and co-driver Nicolas Gilsoul are free. "It is going well. We did a check-up yesterday because I was not feeling very well out of the car. Everything is back in order. A few more days with the collar and it will be ok," said d 'Neuville entrance, equipped with a neck brace.

Place in the explanation of the output. "It was a big output, high-speed In our misfortune, we were lucky... There was no tree around has done is a spun after snatching the wheel is then finished in a little lower bushes. it was a summit that I approached too quickly. so I transported me outside and I grazed the job. and it sends us into the decor "explains the Belgian driver at the microphone of our colleague Olivier Gaspard RTBF.

After the explanation, the feeling: "The feeling is simple at this point: we have to see if the two go well this is clearly a frustration, try to understand This would not have happened but it '.. happened. it's an incident. I was hoping to give points to the manufacturer. it was my fault, this will not happen again. I think this is a good lesson for me. I'll learn from that. No point here but the season continues. We saw that the car was competitive. for us, the motivation is there. "


http://www.rtbf.be/sport/moteurs/rallye/wrc/detail_neuville-c-etait-de-ma-faute-cela-n-arrivera-plus?id=9232669

[TWRC]

Ogier is annihilating the others again :D
As far as the coverage goes, those embarassing skits with the drivers, Desborough's annoying rattle... just bad, bad, bad.

[Eli]

god he won't shut up...

[Racing Ka]

And gongrats to J-M and Miikka too!!

[EstWRC]

Hana Latvala!!!!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I hate Jon Desborough.

Watching live stages with no sound is the only way... make car noises in my head !

[GravelBen]

I've decided the best way to watch the live stages is muted, with rally radio for audio.

[EstWRC]

I've decided the best way to watch the live stages is muted, with rally radio for audio.

ive been always doing it, much better

[satukata]

Great rally for flying FINNS!! JM is now 6th in championship->good starting place in Argentina. Hope he can take win again.

[satukata]

Teemu Suninen is really good new flying finn! Next year i hope he get Toyota WRC

[Rally Power]

Congrats to Latavala and Anttila. Didn’t manage to follow but seems it was another breathtaking WRC event…

Btw, just saw a pic from Guerra flying experience. Any video link?

[stefanvv]

I think they should go back to the 2014 starting position rule. We would have had a closer fight between JM and Seb...

The power stage reminded me what we were missing the whole rally, Ogier at its best. Doesn't someone thinks the new rules are sacrificing the whole spectacle?

And of course congratulations to Latvala for this win. He was just in his own rally with no opponents.

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

Who're the 2nd & 3rd..?

[GravelBen]

The power stage reminded me what we were missing the whole rally, Ogier at its best. Doesn't someone thinks the new rules are sacrificing the whole spectacle?

Ogier was giving his best the whole rally, its just that it was only good enough for second this time. What you saw on the power stage that was missing the rest of the rally was just him winning the stage, and Latvala being careful taking no risks.

Based on last year the running order rules seem to advantage the championship leader about as often as they disadvantage him, the other drivers just don't whine about it when it isn't going their way.

[stefanvv]

Ogier was giving his best the whole rally, its just that it was only good enough for second this time. What you saw on the power stage that was missing the rest of the rally was just him winning the stage, and Latvala being careful taking no risks.

That's not what I meant. This is the whole problem, we see him doing his best and the result is "as good as for 2nd place", going all over the place due to the lack of traction. How good is that for the spectacle?
And yes, Latvala shouldn't have pushed 100% at the PS, so he didn't. But then look though the difference with the rest, it is HUGE.

[dimviii]

borl video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lSf--p3p_8&feature=youtu.be&a

[Rallyper]

For me (if you listened to the drivers after PS) Ostberg did a very good rally. He pushed hard the rally through. If you take a look at the status of cars, VW is for sure the fastest and most reliable of them all. But here comes why Ostberg did his homework - the Fiesta now is the slowest. You can see that the Hyundai now has developed more equal to VW (in raw speed) than to Fiesta. I think it explains why Sordo and also Paddon is doing very good times. Not that they are slow drivers, but just that they have that little extra which lacking Ostbergs car.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Sordo given 2 minute penalty. Sordo used 29 tyres where the limit is 28. News from service park here in Mexico.

[GravelBen]

That's not what I meant. This is the whole problem, we see him doing his best and the result is "as good as for 2nd place", going all over the place due to the lack of traction. How good is that for the spectacle?
And yes, Latvala shouldn't have pushed 100% at the PS, so he didn't. But then look though the difference with the rest, it is HUGE.

How is that a problem? Its great for the spectacle seeing drivers pushing hard to try and overcome adversity. Do you say the same thing on tarmac rallies when the cars down the order are 'going all over the place' due to the lead cars dragging mud onto the road? Or when everyone after the first 5 cars was battling through ruts in Poland?

What else would you do, send out a grader between each car to make sure the road conditions don't change too much?

[GigiGalliNo1]

Sordo given 2 minute penalty. Sordo used 29 tyres where the limit is 28. News from service park here in Mexico.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160307/166a30bb811e57d64906bbff10635092.jpg

[Mirek]

For me (if you listened to the drivers after PS) Ostberg did a very good rally. He pushed hard the rally through. If you take a look at the status of cars, VW is for sure the fastest and most reliable of them all. But here comes why Ostberg did his homework - the Fiesta now is the slowest. You can see that the Hyundai now has developed more equal to VW (in raw speed) than to Fiesta. I think it explains why Sordo and also Paddon is doing very good times. Not that they are slow drivers, but just that they have that little extra which lacking Ostbergs car.

Again, how do You know?

[stefanvv]

Do You agree with the cow at the end?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM4r81DEV_U

[stefanvv]

How is that a problem?

It is a problem when the main contender already has given up after the first day.


Its great for the spectacle seeing drivers pushing hard to try and overcome adversity. Do you say the same thing on tarmac rallies when the cars down the order are 'going all over the place' due to the lead cars dragging mud onto the road? Or when everyone after the first 5 cars was battling through ruts in Poland?

In general I agree, but as the order difference is so great for the drivers with similar performance, it becomes burden for spectators also, because they don't witness real competition.


What else would you do, send out a grader between each car to make sure the road conditions don't change too much?

Of course not, returning the QS will be more than enough, fair and square.

[Toyoda]

It is a problem when the main contender already has given up after the first day.



In general I agree, but as the order is so great with the drivers with similar performance, it becomes burden for spectators also, because they don't witness real competition.



Of course not, returning the QS will be more than enough, fair and square.

Totally agree, why did they scrap the QS, actually why...does anyone know?

Also Ogier never gave up

[RAS007]

Totally agree, why did they scrap the QS, actually why...does anyone know?

Also Ogier never gave up

Ogier did give up. He said, "I'm not pushing anymore.", after one of the stages earlier on Saturday.

[Toyoda]

Ogier did give up. He said, "I'm not pushing anymore.", after one of the stages earlier on Saturday.

Ogier never gives up surely, he is also known to play mind games with Latvala

[stefanvv]

Ogier never gives up surely, he is also known to play mind games with Latvala

this wasn't mind game, he was just struggling to match decent pace with him. If You watch the videos it is obvious.

[Mariusz]

But here comes why Ostberg did his homework - the Fiesta now is the slowest. You can see that the Hyundai now has developed more equal to VW (in raw speed) than to Fiesta.
Again, how do You know?
Wrong question, again. The burden of proving that the car is fast is on Malcolm and Fiesta just hasn't been delivering results on stages that would prove it.



Of course not, returning the QS will be more than enough, fair and square.
I think it's clear that current rules try to make the championship more exciting by giving better chances to slower drivers to get closer to the championship leader. With a QS we would see rallies decided just by this one stage. Of course, the con of current rules is that the fastest driver won't win everything, so Mr. Ogier, too bad...

[GravelBen]

In general I agree, but as the order difference is so great for the drivers with similar performance...

Its not normally like that though is it? Just an unusual situation this time due to Latvala failing to score any points from the first two rallies of the season.

[Mk2 RS2000]

Its not normally like that though is it? Just an unusual situation this time due to Latvala failing to score any points from the first two rallies of the season.

Don't bring logic and common sense into this argument, it gives you too much of an advantage and is unfair on others.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Great rally! Loved being here!

[GigiGalliNo1]

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[Grundo Farb]

Just looking at Tanak and Evans' performance from the first 4 rallies last year and the first 3 from this year with those of Ostberg and Camilli this year:

Tanak 2015/2016
Monte Carlo Pos. 18/7, Sweden Pos. 4/6, Mexico Pos. 22/5, Argentina Pos. 11/??

Evans 2015/2016
Monte Carlo Pos. 7/8, Sweden Pos. 6/9, Mexico Pos. 4/DNS, Argentina Pos. retired/??

Ostberg 2016
Monte Carlo Pos. 4, Sweden Pos. 3, Mexico Pos. 3, Argentina Pos. ??

Camilli 2016
Monte Carlo Pos. retired, Sweden Pos. retired, Mexico Pos. 16, Argentina Pos. ??

From this and looking at a few stage times from this year and last year, I think Wilson has made a great call in his driver lineup.

You cannot argue with Ostbergs form - much better than either driver last year and also Mr Neuville. Tanak hasn't got any slower in fact he seems to be just as fast, blaming tyres could get a little 'tyresome' during the year as his results are much better so far this year.

Evans also in a lesser car seems to be showing he can fight (get points in WRC) and now with a win on DMACs (albeit in a lessor category) is putting himself in a good frame. Camilli, well if you compare him to Tanak after 4 rallies, he still has a chance to do nearly as well in Argentina if he starts to move up to the points.

I can see why Mr Wilson would be pretty happy.

[EstWRC]

Tänak's results are better because he has finished the rallies this year not because he is faster with dmacks. Just look at the enormous gaps he has had to rally winners. im 100% confident that he would be faster than Mads on gravel on michelins.

And Evans was on the podium last year in argentina, you have him retired there.

and Sordo lost his podium to Mads after penalty http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/march-2016/sordo-penalty/page/3326--12-12-.html

[Grundo Farb]

Yes you are right about Evans, missed that from the eWRC website.

Wasn't Tanak's job to finish rallies last year as well?

I guess my point about Tanak is he wasn't fighting near the top last year for the first few rallies either and that wasn't to do with the tyres.

[EstWRC]

Last year the first half of the season Tänak's and Wilson's plan was to get grips with WRC car again, after missing a year out and being year in a wrc2 category and to start pushing in the second half of the season.

[b3637853]

Again, how do You know?

People assume Fiesta is the slowest because for years there wasn't a fast driver behind the wheel. Kubica showed that you can win stages in Fiesta even without manufacturer's backup. I am sure Ogier would win rallies in Ford.

[Muchonen]

Talking about QS and road position. It all comes to one word, dominance. We all were witnesses of what happens when one person dominance to much. All those Loebs years caused preety big damage to WRC. Losing factories, less and less followers. And FIA knows that they can't let anyone to dominate WRC too much, cause it is going to be same story again. Well now we have more or less VW dominance which is not perfect but still better than Ogier winning everything he can.

Wysane z mojego HTC One M8s przy uyciu Tapatalka

[Kalm]

still better than Ogier winning everything he can.



Thats pretty good, you made it sound like he s not allready winning everything :D

[skarderud]

People assume Fiesta is the slowest because for years there wasn't a fast driver behind the wheel. Kubica showed that you can win stages in Fiesta even without manufacturer's backup. I am sure Ogier would win rallies in Ford.
At yesterdays powerstage the 2 in the studio, Anders grøndal and Cato menkerud (x-solberg co-driver) mention the obvious lack of power in the fiestas, compared to the vw/hyundai's.
Menkerud didn't belived one second that it was just down to slow drivers.

[AL14]

Talking about QS and road position. It all comes to one word, dominance. We all were witnesses of what happens when one person dominance to much. All those Loebs years caused preety big damage to WRC. Losing factories, less and less followers. And FIA knows that they can't let anyone to dominate WRC too much, cause it is going to be same story again. Well now we have more or less VW dominance which is not perfect but still better than Ogier winning everything he can.

Wysane z mojego HTC One M8s przy uyciu Tapatalka

You have a point. But now they've gone too far, and it is also pretty useless to create more excitement around the sport in this way, for a number of reasons:

1) QS was a problem because it was too much in favor for the best and, most important, allowed drivers and teams to make tactics and that kind of things that are not good. So, even if it is the more fair solution, I can understand a little modification to make the championship a little more exciting. And 2014 was a pretty good compromise in my opinion. But now it is too much extreme. Don't forget that in 2014, even if Ogier's dominance and his title was not too much in question, it has been still the championship where he had more problems against Latvala.

2) As other said, Ogier is still winning, so if they wanted to "fight dominance" and create more excitment, they failed. Badly.

3) Seeing other drivers winning events could be good for attract a casual fan in a first phase, but if their goal is to transform him in a hardcore fan (that's the kind of fans sponsors are looking for), it will be very hard considering this guy is witnessing rallys where the best has no chance to win, or, in events like Monte, where the best is even advantaged and others have no chance. (where is the thrill? The excitment?)

4) As said before, if this can give huge disadvantage to the first in the ranking for the gravel rallies, it gives him too much advantage in events like some asphalt rally, or even gravel if it rains.

I think this weekend we have lost a chance to see Ogier and Latvala carrying on an exciting and fair fight. Maybe Jari Matti could have crashed, maybe Ogier could have been faster, or maybe not. Who knows? I don't like to don't know what could have happened. Don't you?

[stefanvv]

maybe Ogier could have been faster, or maybe not.

On Saturday's morning loop he lost already over a minute to Latvala without single mistake, that's when he gave up the fight. I can very well understand his frustration.

I agree 100% with your points, including the ones in which the leading driver can have advantage on some conditions, this is not fair also for the rest of the drivers and even more to the spectators.
There is no perfect solution, QS also, but is close to it in terms of driver to driver fair competition and excitement for the spectators. Yes, Ogier can still win almost every QS, though it is questionable on loose gravel as he will run first through it and again will be disadvantaged to choose his road position, but not that extremely disadvantaged.

[Karukera]

FIA handed over a win to Latvala to shake the tree.
Nice and consistent drive though, good for JML's confidence.

[Rallyper]

Again, how do You know?

It´s my thoughts compared what Mads said. Don´t think he is slower than Sordo or Paddon on gravel. Other reasons must play a role. But it´s not scientificly proved. (Only that when people jelling a sentence enough many times it tend to be truth - in this case (Mads speed) it´s not)

[Rallyper]

People assume Fiesta is the slowest because for years there wasn't a fast driver behind the wheel. Kubica showed that you can win stages in Fiesta even without manufacturer's backup. I am sure Ogier would win rallies in Ford.

How do you know?

[AndyRAC]

Talking about QS and road position. It all comes to one word, dominance. We all were witnesses of what happens when one person dominance to much. All those Loebs years caused preety big damage to WRC. Losing factories, less and less followers. And FIA knows that they can't let anyone to dominate WRC too much, cause it is going to be same story again. Well now we have more or less VW dominance which is not perfect but still better than Ogier winning everything he can.

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Its not for the FiA or promoters to 'even things up' - it's up to the other teams/ drivers to catch up. Motorsport series seem to have a major problem with dominance. Other sports put up with it.

Latvala drove well, but in all honesty it was a pyrrhic victory - as his main opponent was severely handicapped by running first for 2 days.

[b3637853]

How do you know?

If Kubica can win stages with it then faster and more consistent driver like Ogier would win rallies with Fiesta. Simple.

[Mintexmemory]

Its not for the FiA or promoters to 'even things up' - it's up to the other teams/ drivers to catch up. Motorsport series seem to have a major problem with dominance. Other sports put up with it.

Latvala drove well, but in all honesty it was a pyrrhic victory - as his main opponent was severely handicapped by running first for 2 days.

Have some reservations over whether this was a 'pyrrhic victory'.
This was at no cost to either Latvala's or Ogier's ability to remain competitive (winning despite heavy losses outwieghing the loser is the definition).
Ogier ended the rally with JML having only made a 6 point dent in his championship lead. This was a champion's performance from Ogier, make no mistake. Road position was all, yet only Latvala had the speed / Polo to mount a credible challenge. Given the stats is the wise strategy to try to slug it out or to ensure you take second place and max Powerstage points. If Latvala had really been closer in the points tally I believe we'd have seen a bigger response from Ogier. Even if the pattern is repeated in Argentina and Portugal (which would require a step up in consistency from JML) that still leaves Ogier leading by 38 points going into rallies that he has won from the front in recent times.
So Latvala has shown he really is the only competition for Ogier but will find it tougher the nearer he gets to Ogier in the points. As for Mikkelsen, he should have been a comfortable 3rd - that he failed to do says much about his lack of genuine title credentials. Given VW's research on altitude mapping it is no surprise the Polo was outstanding, looks like Hyundai are improving though.

[GigiGalliNo1]

The Mexican podium is the best!

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160307/d4c17611d3b09354dcb209a5c97c1b09.jpg

[TWRC]

Talking about QS and road position. It all comes to one word, dominance. We all were witnesses of what happens when one person dominance to much. All those Loebs years caused preety big damage to WRC. Losing factories, less and less followers. And FIA knows that they can't let anyone to dominate WRC too much, cause it is going to be same story again. Well now we have more or less VW dominance which is not perfect but still better than Ogier winning everything he can.

Wysane z mojego HTC One M8s przy uyciu Tapatalka
WRC didn't lose manufacturers because of Loeb. They lost them because of FIA constantly changing the rules, the economic crisis, bad coverage, different corporate directions, their own inability and also going with rallies where there was little point going to (Jordan jumps into mind). Also, yes, some fans lost interest with Loeb winning everything, but that was just part of the story in my opinion.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Sordo given 2 minute penalty. Sordo used 29 tyres where the limit is 28. News from service park here in Mexico.

So Mads up to 3rd... another payoff for a steady drive and no mistakes ! ;)

[Karukera]

Have some reservations over whether this was a 'pyrrhic victory'. (...)

Put it simply, had Ogier not opening the roads for 2 (!) days, the odds of Latvala winning Mexico would have been troubled, to say the least.

[Karukera]

So Mads up to 3rd... another payoff for a steady drive and no mistakes ! ;)

Wow, impressed !
Don't forget Mads mental abilities.
While being 'almost' 2 min slower he still managed to force Sordo to use that additional evil tire.

[Rallyper]

If Kubica can win stages with it then faster and more consistent driver like Ogier would win rallies with Fiesta. Simple.

Driving like crazy, any of the top ten drivers can win stages. The result for Kubica, you can see for yourself.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Wow, impressed !
Don't forget Mads mental abilities.
While being 'almost' 2 min slower he still managed to force Sordo to use that additional evil tire.

Ha... :)

Maybe Mads steady drive didn't stress his Team into a mistake, unlike maybe the errors of two of the Hyundai drivers ... ;)

[dimviii]

How do you know?

is it so hard to accept that Mads has no wining capabilities? never was able to win.Still the same after so many years at wrc.No progress at all.
Fiesta has nothing to do with it,as Kubica had show many times with stage wins against Ogier and Loeb with Polo and ds3,championship wining cars last decade.
Latvala with fiesta when was at his good days(and mind) had won straight and square Loeb at gravel rallies.

[dimviii]

Driving like crazy, any of the top ten drivers can win stages. The result for Kubica, you can see for yourself.

wrong because if a car isnt fast you cant win Ogier and Loeb at asphalt when they are trouble free,and fighting for the win,specially at dry stages.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cc81IwsWEAAp_jc.jpg:large




gyus.Paddon will ask questions at his twitter.
Hayden Paddon ‏@HaydenPaddon

Between flights tomorrow will be a good time to answer your #askpaddon questions, 9pm CET (Mon) and 9am NZT (Tue)

[dimviii]

Hyundai criticises Thierry Neuville for WRC Rally Mexico crash
By David Evans Monday, March 7th 2016, 12:26 GMT

Thierry Neuville Rally Mexico crash 2016

Hyundai has criticised Thierry Neuville for an "unnecessary" accident on Rally Mexico, but it believes he can recover by winning the next World Rally Championship round in Argentina.

One of the pre-event favourites in Mexico, Neuville lost his chance of victory when he sustained a broken suspension arm on the first gravel stage of the event.

He rejoined under Rally2 for Saturday but crashed again and had to be hospitalised for precautionary checks.

Hyundai team manager Alain Penasse was perturbed by the second shunt.

"The accident on the first day can happen when you are fighting for a win," Penasse told Autosport.

"He made a mistake, that is clear. The second accident was not necessary.

"We made it clear in the morning we wanted him to bring the car back to score a few manufacturer points, so we didn't understand why he drove at a speed which was too much."

Neuville was demoted from team leader status at Hyundai as he lost confidence during a troubled 2015 season.

He rebounded with a podium on the 2016 opener in Monte Carlo, before his Rally Sweden was wrecked by a differential problem and his Mexico hopes lost to crashes.

But Penasse believes Neuville can emulate Kris Meeke's 2015 achievement on next month's Rally Argentina round and take a surprise win - helped by starting eighth on the road.

"He has to start again in Argentina," Penasse said. "He needs to analyse what he's doing by watching his onboards against the other guys.

"The plan is quite simple in Argentina: he will have the same fantastic road position that Meeke had there last year and if he can do what Kris did last year then we will be happy.

"When you have this good road position, there's no point hanging around."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123154?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[pantealex]

Mads is 2nd in points
no stage wins
no 2nd places in stages

Interesting!

[EstWRC]

http://images.autosport.com/editorial/1244880854.jpg

[AL14]

Hyundai criticises Thierry Neuville for WRC Rally Mexico crash
By David Evans Monday, March 7th 2016, 12:26 GMT

Thierry Neuville Rally Mexico crash 2016

Hyundai has criticised Thierry Neuville for an "unnecessary" accident on Rally Mexico, but it believes he can recover by winning the next World Rally Championship round in Argentina.

One of the pre-event favourites in Mexico, Neuville lost his chance of victory when he sustained a broken suspension arm on the first gravel stage of the event.

He rejoined under Rally2 for Saturday but crashed again and had to be hospitalised for precautionary checks.

Hyundai team manager Alain Penasse was perturbed by the second shunt.

"The accident on the first day can happen when you are fighting for a win," Penasse told Autosport.

"He made a mistake, that is clear. The second accident was not necessary.

"We made it clear in the morning we wanted him to bring the car back to score a few manufacturer points, so we didn't understand why he drove at a speed which was too much."

Neuville was demoted from team leader status at Hyundai as he lost confidence during a troubled 2015 season.

He rebounded with a podium on the 2016 opener in Monte Carlo, before his Rally Sweden was wrecked by a differential problem and his Mexico hopes lost to crashes.

But Penasse believes Neuville can emulate Kris Meeke's 2015 achievement on next month's Rally Argentina round and take a surprise win - helped by starting eighth on the road.

"He has to start again in Argentina," Penasse said. "He needs to analyse what he's doing by watching his onboards against the other guys.

"The plan is quite simple in Argentina: he will have the same fantastic road position that Meeke had there last year and if he can do what Kris did last year then we will be happy.

"When you have this good road position, there's no point hanging around."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123154?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Penasse sounds very much like pain-in-the-ass. In all respects.

[SubaruNorway]

"But Penasse believes Neuville can emulate Kris Meeke's 2015 achievement on next month's Rally Argentina round and take a surprise win - helped by starting eighth on the road."

I don't know but i feel like it was more due to all the VW's retiring... Road position doesn't matter so much in Argentina as it stays sandy longer.

[Teme]

Good job by Gorban getting one point with Mini. Hopefully that means he gets priority 1 for the coming events so he doesn't have to start behind all the WRC2 and WRC3 runners.

[dimviii]

Paddon answers questions from fans

https://twitter.com/HaydenPaddon?lang=el

[AL14]

Paddon answers questions from fans

https://twitter.com/HaydenPaddon?lang=el

This one's for Lundefaret
https://twitter.com/HaydenPaddon/status/706935021714604032

[Lundefaret]

This one's for Lundefaret
https://twitter.com/HaydenPaddon/status/706935021714604032

;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Mads won stages in Mexico in 2014 & 2015...

So is he slow ? Is it the Fiesta ? Or is he driving to maximise the chance of taking points ?

[Simmi]

"But Penasse believes Neuville can emulate Kris Meeke's 2015 achievement on next month's Rally Argentina round and take a surprise win - helped by starting eighth on the road."

I don't know but i feel like it was more due to all the VW's retiring... Road position doesn't matter so much in Argentina as it stays sandy longer.

Haha yeah that fact has been slightly overlooked hasn't it. Road position had nothing to do with that Meeke win but they get Thierry what he needs to hear I guess.

Crashing while under Rally2 is the cardinal sin though - I can see why they are miffed.

[N.O.T]

mads is nothing, he goes, we cheer, same like hirvonen.

[Mk2 RS2000]

Crashing while under Rally2 is the cardinal sin though - I can see why they are miffed.

Knocking the car around on shakedowns or on test days while trying to set a better time than your team mates rather than focusing on the true task at hand does not help either.
Will be very interesting to see what role he plays once they are back in Europe, could be a lot less expensive just to pay him to sit on the bank and watch.

[Rallyper]

is it so hard to accept that Mads has no wining capabilities? never was able to win.Still the same after so many years at wrc.No progress at all.
Fiesta has nothing to do with it,as Kubica had show many times with stage wins against Ogier and Loeb with Polo and ds3,championship wining cars last decade.
Latvala with fiesta when was at his good days(and mind) had won straight and square Loeb at gravel rallies.

But, please, I´m just arguing against those who says he is slow. That isn´t true. And the Fiesta is not on level with VW. And Kubica winning stages doesn´t say anything about status.
Don´t misunderstand what my broken english trying to explain.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Neuville is not listening to co-driver's notes during the stages and is being arrogant and continues to watch onboard footage to better his driving alone, in his hotel room on hours end which isn't working and Gilsoul is becoming annoyed with Neuville on his attitude. So the mistakes are really Neuville's. Don't be surprised if they split or see tension arise now after Mexico. You could clearly see it in Mexico.

[KiwiRallyFan]

The Mexican podium is the best!

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160307/d4c17611d3b09354dcb209a5c97c1b09.jpg
That's excellent! Too many WRC rallies have a podium ceremony which is only viewable by VIP's and media, while the fans are mostly shut out. It's great to see a rally including the fans in the ceremony.

[Leon]

Neuville is not listening to co-driver's notes during the stages and is being arrogant and continues to watch onboard footage to better his driving alone, in his hotel room on hours end which isn't working and Gilsoul is becoming annoyed with Neuville on his attitude. So the mistakes are really Neuville's. Don't be surprised if they split or see tension arise now after Mexico. You could clearly see it in Mexico.

He should also study what happened with his compatriot who had the same attitude/arrogance.

[nafpaktos]

Neuville is not listening to co-driver's notes during the stages and is being arrogant and continues to watch onboard footage to better his driving alone, in his hotel room on hours end which isn't working and Gilsoul is becoming annoyed with Neuville on his attitude. So the mistakes are really Neuville's. Don't be surprised if they split or see tension arise now after Mexico. You could clearly see it in Mexico.
How is it possible to know those details?about not hearing the pace notes i think this is too much!!

[seb_sh]

He should also study what happened with his compatriot who had the same attitude/arrogance.

I wrote something similar some pages back, at the moment Neuville is looking more and more like Duval 2

[N.O.T]

How is it possible to know those details?about not hearing the pace notes i think this is too much!!

probably form the same source that tipped him about Ogiers tension with VW management, that is why Ogier drives for Citroen the last 2 years.

He is just a kid, do not pay too much attention.

[tommeke_B]

Neuville is not listening to co-driver's notes during the stages and is being arrogant and continues to watch onboard footage to better his driving alone, in his hotel room on hours end which isn't working and Gilsoul is becoming annoyed with Neuville on his attitude. So the mistakes are really Neuville's. Don't be surprised if they split or see tension arise now after Mexico. You could clearly see it in Mexico.

Yes sure, he's not listening to the notes. Yet he still manages to set stage-times within seconds of the top drivers... Do you know what rallying is? I recommend you to drive some proper stages yourself, once, or twice, or 10 times, and then still imagine that you can drive within seconds of the world's best without any notes. Sure there could be some tensions between Neuville and Gilsoul, it's normal regarding the situation they're in, but your version is going way too far... ;)

You've posted plenty of bullshit (only now and then), I think your "sources" are laughing behind your back. I'm already curious for the next joke they're going to make you believe. :)

[AL14]

LOL, but no one is considering that the notes are dictated by Neuville himself during recce. If this is true it means Neuville is not listening to himself. It does not make any sense.

[janvanvurpa]

But, please, I´m just arguing against those who says he is slow. That isn´t true. And the Fiesta is not on level with VW. And Kubica winning stages doesn´t say anything about status.
Don´t misunderstand what my broken english trying to explain.

Pelle lilla I don't know if I buy the idea that the Fiesta is significantly slower.. I think we must watch ourselves again thinking any of the tip tip ytterst top factory cars are waaaaaaaaaaaaay faster than the next..
Remember just a while ago "everybody" says "Citroen are all finito..the car have no development since Loeb left and the car IS TOO SLOW"

Then Loeb simply hops in and POOF! instant top times..

But wait, ''everybody said''?

what I'm saying is there IS a driver in the car, too...

And those norsk guttar are good, but I don't know if they have the last bit of gnista eller flinta eller inte vet jag

Och det visas i att dom är bråkdelar av sekunder bakom.

[Rallyper]

Pelle lilla I don't know if I buy the idea that the Fiesta is significantly slower.. I think we must watch ourselves again thinking any of the tip tip ytterst top factory cars are waaaaaaaaaaaaay faster than the next..
Remember just a while ago "everybody" says "Citroen are all finito..the car have no development since Loeb left and the car IS TOO SLOW"

Then Loeb simply hops in and POOF! instant top times..

But wait, ''everybody said''?

what I'm saying is there IS a driver in the car, too...

And those norsk guttar are good, but I don't know if they have the last bit of gnista eller flinta eller inte vet jag

Och det visas i att dom är bråkdelar av sekunder bakom.

Visst! But are they slow? Are you slow winning stages in WRC events? I´m reacting on those who criticices Mads being slow, nothing else. Tenths, seconds, what they depends on? - well - many factors I believe.
Btw, how things where one or few years ago or even 6 months, doesn´t give much references of current situation technicalwise.

[janvanvurpa]

Visst! But are they slow? Are you slow winning stages in WRC events? I´m reacting on those who criticices Mads being slow, nothing else. Tenths, seconds, what they depends on? - well - many factors I believe.
Btw, how things where one or few years ago or even 6 months, doesn´t give much references of current situation technicalwise.

Yeah but you know me..I'm really a cross-idiot in the deepest part of what passes for brains...We don't obesses to the same degree as car guys about technical "end-of-the-world" larvigheter..

Example


Se how Mats Jonsson in Stig Blomqvists old 1997 spec Whirled Rally Car Escort Cosworth just a few years ago makes times good for 4th --5th 6th if he was in WRC Sweden insted of the SM rally behind..
Ancient car......17 years behind
Ancient guy!

Mere seconds behind..

So many tiny factors I say the biggest is between the ears.. Drive, krut i magen, råg i ryggen because the technical spec is so strictly controlled in so many ways regarding the engines.. so i discount the engines...there's a whole lot of other things after the motor

And there's the internat PUSH..
Don't want to guess too much but those guttar have pretty nice life if they never lift a finger to get in a car again, right? It's in a way just fun for them..another couple of fractions of second is not going to change their lives.. Push internally is the hardest factor to weigh...
this was pretty clear in my sport when even though it is multiple factors more pysically demanding, routinely you see guys who don't LOOK all full of muscles beat guys who were...there was something pushing harder inside their head and that made the decisive difference...

[Rallyper]

Understand what you mean. Still it´s competition on highest rally level in WRC. And that means differences measured in tenths or few seconds means either driver or cars play a role.
The thing some guys has a golden spoon in their mouths doesn´t mean they compete cruising.
Still my main issue is: Is Mads slow?
Mats Jonsson hasn´t had any competiton in SRC for years. So comparing isn´t fair.

Så där John. Nu fick du nåt att bita i... ;)

[Nornbugger]

Se how Mats Jonsson in Stig Blomqvists old 1997 spec Whirled Rally Car Escort Cosworth just a few years ago makes times good for 4th --5th 6th if he was in WRC Sweden insted of the SM rally behind..
Ancient car......17 years behind
Ancient guy!

Mere seconds behind..

...

This tale is quite often retold on here, I'd love to know more about it. No disrespect to Mats but he alone doesn't account for this difference, does anyone know was the restrictor size the same for both? And what about tyres?

[janvanvurpa]

Understand what you mean. Still it´s competition on highest rally level in WRC. And that means differences measured in tenths or few seconds means either driver or cars play a role.
The thing some guys has a golden spoon in their mouths doesn´t mean they compete cruising.
Still my main issue is: Is Mads slow?
Mats Jonsson hasn´t had any competiton in SRC for years. So comparing isn´t fair.

Så där John. Nu fick du nåt att bita i... ;)

Vänta nu..

First yeah I agree, they aren't ''just cruising''... It would be silly to suggest that..who did?

But but but..
Re Mats Jonsson and the WRC ex Blomqvist Escort rapport from over the week end:


Another snow victory for Rådström

Rally Vännäs - the last winter rally for this year in the Swedish Rally Championship - was held this weekend in Vännäs, native village for Thomas Rådström, former WRC-driver in the Citroën team. He was co-driven by Denis Giraudet and they had no problems to win this round of the championship in their Olsbergs Toyota Corolla WRC.
- In spite of a repeating malfunction of the engine, causing o loss of about 50 hps many times, we had no real problems to take the win, Thomas Rådström said at the ramp.


Behind Rådström there was a tough fight between Mats Jonsson, Ford Escort WRC, and Mats Thorszelius, Toyota Corolla WRC. Thorszelius was the luckiest of the two and finished second, 51,4 seconds behind Rådström, but only 2 seconds ahead of Jonsson at the third place.





We speaking of the same Jonsson? Cause THAT is the one I'm referring to..He must be 60 (just checked 59)
Gammalt är bäst


Thorzelius grabben, isn't he almost neighbor to you? almost? Just a couple of mil ditåt ----->:D

[janvanvurpa]

This tale is quite often retold on here, I'd love to know more about it. No disrespect to Mats but he alone doesn't account for this difference, does anyone know was the restrictor size the same for both? And what about tyres?

Ok hold on, I need tea and a ciggie, Iäll dig it up and get right back.
It was the same year that there were a couple of National 2wd Golf and a Volvo 940 beating Ken Blocks stage times---in the latest spec "best car money can buy" (because any better and they give YOU money!) Ford Focus.

[gorganl2000]

Pelle lilla I don't know if I buy the idea that the Fiesta is significantly slower.. I think we must watch ourselves again thinking any of the tip tip ytterst top factory cars are waaaaaaaaaaaaay faster than the next..
Remember just a while ago "everybody" says "Citroen are all finito..the car have no development since Loeb left and the car IS TOO SLOW"

Then Loeb simply hops in and POOF! instant top times..

But wait, ''everybody said''?

what I'm saying is there IS a driver in the car, too...

And those norsk guttar are good, but I don't know if they have the last bit of gnista eller flinta eller inte vet jag

Och det visas i att dom är bråkdelar av sekunder bakom.

i dont understand all of what you wrote, but i agree with the part about citroen and loeb's one off return....and to some extent now reflected via meeke

[janvanvurpa]

i dont understand all of what you wrote, but i agree with the part about citroen and loeb's one off return....and to some extent now reflected via meeke

Yeah I have to get up at 0530 to drive wifey dear to the train and with only 1/2 cup of tea and 1/2 cigarette my poor old brain isn't firing on all cylinders...Per is Swedish and that was my language in motorsports so Iäm writing to him so it's all his fault..At least we speak same regional dialect so at least he understands...

You should see what happens if I write in Österbotten Finland-svensk, then even he have problems

I think this might be the problem area:

And those norsk guttar are good, but I don't know if they have the last bit of gnista eller flinta eller inte vet jag

Och det visas i att dom är bråkdelar av sekunder bakom.

Norsk guttar= "norwegian guys" and gnista = spark (iskra? In Russian) and flinta= flint and 'inte vet jag' is "I don't know"..

And damn whole last line = "and this is shown in that they are fractions of a second behind."

Basically agreeing that the Norski guys are fast but slightly disagreeing that the Fords are "not fast enough".

Of course Pelle is an old Opel rally man and I drove Saab with the mighty V4 which is Ford so we genetically have to disagree (even if I built some really excellent Opels for friends)

Maybe if I ask him to find me Opel 2,2 crank he will forgive me being Ford/Saab guy.:eek:

[janvanvurpa]

Ok hold on, I need tea and a ciggie, Iäll dig it up and get right back.
It was the same year that there were a couple of National 2wd Golf and a Volvo 940 beating Ken Blocks stage times---in the latest spec "best car money can buy" (because any better and they give YOU money!) Ford Focus.
Maybe here for Block SS times
http://www.ewrc-results.com/driver_info.php?e=2224&d=99875&t=Rally-Sweden-2011

Maybe here for Mats
http://www.raceconsulting.com/rally/resultat/resultat.jsp?tavling=456&urval=granskad.deltar.tavlingsklass12696&rubrik=Klassresultat&underrubrik=Trimmat%204WD

SS8/9/10/11

2wd National "Grupp H"
http://www.raceconsulting.com/rally/resultat/resultat.jsp?tavling=456&urval=granskad.deltar.tavlingsklass12695&rubrik=Klassresultat&underrubrik=Trimmat%202WD


More later.

[Rallyper]

Yeah I have to get up at 0530 to drive wifey dear to the train and with only 1/2 cup of tea and 1/2 cigarette my poor old brain isn't firing on all cylinders...Per is Swedish and that was my language in motorsports so Iäm writing to him so it's all his fault..At least we speak same regional dialect so at least he understands...

You should see what happens if I write in Österbotten Finland-svensk, then even he have problems

I think this might be the problem area:


Norsk guttar= "norwegian guys" and gnista = spark (iskra? In Russian) and flinta= flint and 'inte vet jag' is "I don't know"..

And damn whole last line = "and this is shown in that they are fractions of a second behind."

Basically agreeing that the Norski guys are fast but slightly disagreeing that the Fords are "not fast enough".

Of course Pelle is an old Opel rally man and I drove Saab with the mighty V4 which is Ford so we genetically have to disagree (even if I built some really excellent Opels for friends)

Maybe if I ask him to find me Opel 2,2 crank he will forgive me being Ford/Saab guy.:eek:

I´m a truly Ford fan as well (in rallying that is) else there is a tale "Aldrig en Ford på min gård" and that rule concerns my private cars. Opel as you say is a favourite having had maybe 20 different models since 1972, like Kadett Sprint, Asconas (B) maybe 7-8, Omegas, Rekord and now for the time being one Astra and one Corsa (and BMW also). Back in 1976 I put together a Std B V4 engine (silvermotorn with Solex doubleport carb original) at my brother which after was raced maybe 20 rallies with no problem...

So far where I stand. My judgement of Fiesta is oc subjective, but some drivers seems to agree as well.

Btw Rådström och Mats Jonsson wasn´t that maybe ten years ago...? Not sure myself anymore.

[Mirek]

Per, I struggle to read the whole argument, I admit, but I'm quite sure that differences between drivers on WRC level are reasonably bigger than differences between cars. You know You have the same set of rules, same tools, same options to design, compute, verify and test everything on the car but the driver is just an accidental work of nature with some additional fine tuning.

[Nornbugger]

Maybe here for Block SS times
http://www.ewrc-results.com/driver_info.php?e=2224&d=99875&t=Rally-Sweden-2011

Maybe here for Mats
http://www.raceconsulting.com/rally/resultat/resultat.jsp?tavling=456&urval=granskad.deltar.tavlingsklass12696&rubrik=Klassresultat&underrubrik=Trimmat%204WD

SS8/9/10/11

2wd National "Grupp H"
http://www.raceconsulting.com/rally/resultat/resultat.jsp?tavling=456&urval=granskad.deltar.tavlingsklass12695&rubrik=Klassresultat&underrubrik=Trimmat%202WD


More later.

Thanks, any info on the spec/tyres etc the GpH cars can run?

[janvanvurpa]

Thanks, any info on the spec/tyres etc the GpH cars can run?

Skinny ones, with LOTS of nasty studs . maybe 8mm stick out.

The thing I was point out to people is the SM guys have much much surface conditions...like canyons instead of ruts...

Because of format it takes some going here going there to compare SS times, but its veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery interesting.....As I said, 2 club MkII Golves and a limousin 940 Volvo beating newest spec Works Ford Fiesta....driven by OK not very good "gentleman driver" but a little something to think about that there is lurking undiscovered perhaps very good talent...

[Rallyper]

Per, I struggle to read the whole argument, I admit, but I'm quite sure that differences between drivers on WRC level are reasonably bigger than differences between cars. You know You have the same set of rules, same tools, same options to design, compute, verify and test everything on the car but the driver is just an accidental work of nature with some additional fine tuning.

For sure. But why discuss at all car performing abiliies? I mean the small differences are playing a role. Remember that in Greece 2012 Mads had not same suspension and gearbox ratios compared to Petter and was beaten on PS podium by one or two tenths of a second.

And Mads is not slow, that´s my main message.

[Mirek]

Nobody on WRC level is slow (except Camilli in his current form) but their speed is not equal either and the difference in their speed is a lot bigger than difference between the cars therefore claim of Mads being slower because his car is slow is very hard to back by some actual arguments except personal belief.

[gorganl2000]

Still my main issue is: Is Mads slow?


first off, i have nothing against mads...he does add to the whole wrc experience and number of overall drivers in this category...and for sure ALL of those drivers have great ability and risk their lives in this sport.

however, its all relative to the criteria used to answer the question

over the last few events 2015/2016, i'd have to say he's generally slower compared to ogier, jari, meeke, mikkelsen, tanak, dani, paddon even the crash prone kubica and neuville,,and even somewhat to the newer player breen (early days yet)

now if i generally compare him to prokop, qassimi and some of the newer drivers, abbring, lefebvre, bertelli, camilli (early days still), then he appears faster

for the length of time mads has been in wrc, it seems fair that viewers/fans expect more from him

like many others, i suppose he has reach his peak and maybe that's ok as a 2nd driver pursueing manufacturer points, but not so ok for WDC pursuit

[Nornbugger]

Skinny ones, with LOTS of nasty studs . maybe 8mm stick out.

The thing I was point out to people is the SM guys have much much surface conditions...like canyons instead of ruts...

Because of format it takes some going here going there to compare SS times, but its veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery interesting.....As I said, 2 club MkII Golves and a limousin 940 Volvo beating newest spec Works Ford Fiesta....driven by OK not very good "gentleman driver" but a little something to think about that there is lurking undiscovered perhaps very good talent...

I expect the world has dozens of Ogiers who had the been born in Ostberg/Mikkelsen etcs house they'd be winning rallies.

[dimviii]

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2016/photos/rally_guanajuato_mexico_2016/dwi_16-03mex_ostberg0005.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2016/photos/rally_guanajuato_mexico_2016/dwi_16-03mex_ogier0007.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/fotogalery.php?events=27501&fotograf=335



http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2016/photos/rally_guanajuato_mexico_2016/mn_018.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2016/photos/rally_guanajuato_mexico_2016/mn_047.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/fotogalery.php?events=27501&fotograf=119

[Rallyper]

first off, i have nothing against mads...he does add to the whole wrc experience and number of overall drivers in this category...and for sure ALL of those drivers have great ability and risk their lives in this sport.

however, its all relative to the criteria used to answer the question

over the last few events 2015/2016, i'd have to say he's generally slower compared to ogier, jari, meeke, mikkelsen, tanak, dani, paddon even the crash prone kubica and neuville,,and even somewhat to the newer player breen (early days yet)

now if i generally compare him to prokop, qassimi and some of the newer drivers, abbring, lefebvre, bertelli, camilli (early days still), then he appears faster

for the length of time mads has been in wrc, it seems fair that viewers/fans expect more from him

like many others, i suppose he has reach his peak and maybe that's ok as a 2nd driver pursueing manufacturer points, but not so ok for WDC pursuit

Still he is 2nd in championship. Tactics or slow, that´s the question...

[EstWRC]

He is always good in the beginning of the season...in the end of the season he will be 4th or even 5th, depends on Paddons performance.

[Mariusz]

Mads' championship standing may be a good example of slow in fast out rule :)

[dimviii]

Still he is 2nd in championship. Tactics or slow, that´s the question...

there is no question.He is slow.Admit it.

slow compared with his championship rivals.Not with you and me,with Maurin and Nikara.

[stefanvv]

He is slow.

So what? Yes, slower than Ogier and some others, but for the moment only Ogier seem to matter, and he is not only problem for Ostberg, but for anyone else. Ostberg picks up what the other can't. Who is the winner and who are the loosers?
If you expect of him to rech Ogier's level some day, will be dissapointed, he never will....

[AL14]

Fast and slow are not everything in rally. So we can say Ostberg is relatively slow but not that he is a bad driver. He is a very good driver, I would say one of the best. Last year was best non VW driver. No one can deny it. Rankings speak for themself, and he also skipped an event.

Said that I get critics toward him. But thhe point is not that he is "slow" the point is that he is a driver with no more to say to the championship. His learning curve is flat, he is happy and comfortable where he is. In a word, he is annoying, unless you are a fan of him since early days.

[dimviii]

So what? Yes, slower than Ogier and some others, but for the moment only Ogier seem to matter, and he is not only problem for Ostberg, but for anyone else. Ostberg picks up what the other can't. Who is the winner and who are the loosers?
If you expect of him to rech Ogier's level some day, will be dissapointed, he never will....

read again.If after you read again you understand the same,read again and again till you understand what i wrote.

[dimviii]

Fast and slow are not everything in rally. So we can say Ostberg is relatively slow but not that he is a bad driver. He is a very good driver, I would say one of the best. Last year was best non VW driver. No one can deny it. Rankings speak for themself, and he also skipped an event.

Said that I get critics toward him. But thhe point is not that he is "slow" the point is that he is a driver with no more to say to the championship. His learning curve is flat, he is happy and comfortable where he is. In a word, he is annoying, unless you are a fan of him since early days.

a driver that he cant win a stage,not a rally,a single stage at his best surface after so many years at wrc ,is slow.
he never will win a rally because he was fast.
Nobody said that he is not a good driver.We said that he is slow compared to his rivals.
And thats not something bad,plenty of such drivers for every era.
Tired about the bad ds3 he had to change his driving,tired for the excuses for the new co driver after 3 rallies with him,tired about so many excuses for years.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

a driver that he cant win a stage,not a rally,a single stage at his best surface after so many years at wrc ,is slow.


Are you just talking about this 2016 rally ?

Mads won several stages in Mexico in the two seasons (2014 & 2015).

He may have been able to do so again but for having to drive for points with no team-mate back-up...

[stefanvv]

read again.If after you read again you understand the same,read again and again till you understand what i wrote.

I did it in many posts, don't really get why is all the critics. The man is doing his job as well as he could and is in better position than faster drivers than him. If there is someone who deserves critics now is Neuville, total dissapoinment for me.

[seb_sh]

Ostberg may be "slow and annoying" to some but the facts are he is at the moment one of the best drivers in the WRC. I think it's wrong to blame him for being consistent but unspectacular, just as it's wrong to blame Ogier for being faster and less error prone than the rest. Blame the others who are not beating this "slow" driver on rallies or in the championship. I'm not a fan of Ostberg myself and I don't think he will ever be WDC but he is a solid 2nd driver who brings in points and doesn't wreck cars.

[tommeke_B]

+1, for any team except VW there are no better options. I think we can put Ostberg and Sordo in the same category. Overall they lack a bit of speed to fight for the wins, but they're probably the most reliable drivers of the WRC field (apart from the Seb's) in the last 10 years. They crash maybe once per year and on other occasions they're always scoring championship points if there are no problems with the car.

[AL14]

El chocolate and other roads near Leon today. Can you believe it? http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/03/10/901acce7658b91fc4c9c00ebbc817a9d.jpg

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/t31.0-8/12792194_1072585139481016_2453013639299576674_o.jp g

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/03/10/441c21615aba674fb6b396c6c9d375a0.jpg

Take this with a pinch of salt. Source is not too much reliable... Maybe a confirmation would be better.

[AL14]

a driver that he cant win a stage,not a rally,a single stage at his best surface after so many years at wrc ,is slow.
he never will win a rally because he was fast.

I partially agree with you but in his Citroen days he did win stages both on the snow and on gravel. Not as much as a champion, but we should consider it to judge him properly.


Nobody said that he is not a good driver.We said that he is slow compared to his rivals.
And thats not something bad,plenty of such drivers for every era.

Ok you are right. I didn't get the point of the discussion. Agree with this.

[dimviii]

I did it in many posts, don't really get why is all the critics. The man is doing his job as well as he could and is in better position than faster drivers than him. If there is someone who deserves critics now is Neuville, total dissapoinment for me.

who said that ''he dont do his job well''?
read again and again and again what i wrote,till you understant.

[dimviii]

Ostberg may be "slow and annoying" to some but the facts are he is at the moment one of the best drivers in the WRC. I think it's wrong to blame him for being consistent but unspectacular, just as it's wrong to blame Ogier for being faster and less error prone than the rest. Blame the others who are not beating this "slow" driver on rallies or in the championship. I'm not a fan of Ostberg myself and I don't think he will ever be WDC but he is a solid 2nd driver who brings in points and doesn't wreck cars.

its not about blaming any driver.Its about talking at a forum and showing the facts.And the facts are that he is slow.He cant win any event at a straight fight,even a stage when others are in fight.Even at his country rally.

[dimviii]

Are you just talking about this 2016 rally ?

Mads won several stages in Mexico in the two seasons (2014 & 2015).

He may have been able to do so again but for having to drive for points with no team-mate back-up...

Mads won stages when others are not pushing.He cant win stage at straight fight.

[N.O.T]

Mads is nothing, he stopped developing years ago, why you are arguing about a nobody ?

[stefanvv]

who said that ''he dont do his job well''?
read again and again and again what i wrote,till you understant.

why then You believe he is doing excuses all the time. Excuse would be needed if he fights with Ogier. He doesn't do this, because he knows he can't.
'

[dimviii]

why then You believe he is doing excuses all the time. Excuse would be needed if he fights with Ogier. He doesn't do this, because he knows he can't.
'

ask him why he mention about the new co-driver after 3 rallies.Not me.

[Rallyper]

Dimitri, you use wrong word. Not that I´m an expert in english, but word "slow" doesn´t suit. If you say he isn´t fast enough to be WDC I´d agree. He is not fast enough compared to maybe 2-3 faster guys. But slow.no. Wrong choice of expression for the driver currently in 2nd position in WDC.

[seb_sh]

+1, for any team except VW there are no better options. I think we can put Ostberg and Sordo in the same category. Overall they lack a bit of speed to fight for the wins, but they're probably the most reliable drivers of the WRC field (apart from the Seb's) in the last 10 years. They crash maybe once per year and on other occasions they're always scoring championship points if there are no problems with the car.

Yeah I see Sordo in the same category as well in general, except he is pretty good on tarmac.


its not about blaming any driver.Its about talking at a forum and showing the facts.And the facts are that he is slow.He cant win any event at a straight fight,even a stage when others are in fight.Even at his country rally.

Sure but I mean the problem is there are few better drivers. If we had more drivers who are fast and can finish a rally maybe Ostberg would not be in a works team anyway.

[liposh]

Dimitri, you use wrong word. Not that I´m an expert in english, but word "slow" doesn´t suit. If you say he isn´t fast enough to be WDC I´d agree. He is not fast enough compared to maybe 2-3 faster guys. But slow.no. Wrong choice of expression for the driver currently in 2nd position in WDC.

It is true. You will clearly see the situation with Ostberg on Rally Canarian Isles this weekend (I am sure you will see it) ...2nd league drivers in WRC are still one league above best drivers in ERC.

[janvanvurpa]

Dimitri, you use wrong word. Not that I´m an expert in english, but word "slow" doesn´t suit. If you say he isn´t fast enough to be WDC I´d agree. He is not fast enough compared to maybe 2-3 faster guys. But slow.no. Wrong choice of expression for the driver currently in 2nd position in WDC.


Yeah that's an important word "enough"..."WE" as a culture have---since Inter-net forums came around---tend to talk more and more extreme..."That guy is sooooooooooooooooooooooooo amazingly FAST!":eek:

"And that guy so so slooooooooooooooooooow, herregud!"

"That babe is so HOT!!!!!!" and "OMG! arf! arf! wot a DOG!"

No subtlety...I mock it often in the way I spell and stretch out and make fonts bigger...I do it because its hard to take seriously when somebody says somebody 0,1 or 0,2 s/km off the best man in the world is SLOW.

(Kinda funny, many years ago I had conversation with the most beautiful girl---from Ekerö--outside Stockholm---and she said she had talked to a Professor who said the reason the English speaking peoples were nuts is because there did not exsist in English the equivalent for the (swedish) word 'nog'.. I said "Tell proff he's full of (hot air) (not really)...The workd "enough" and the word nog are the same thing..or at one time were the same thing...never got into her pants after that..the prof was her dad!!)

Enough then this silly talk about slow Mads..
I won't say Ben Klock is slow....just not fast enough---for the car he buys---to gain any respect.

[EstWRC]

ill never undertand what you're talking about, lol

[janvanvurpa]

ill never undertand what you're talking about, lol


Don't worry. It makes perfect sense..:arrows:

[Nornbugger]

Yeah that's an important word "enough"..."WE" as a culture have---since Inter-net forums came around---tend to talk more and more extreme..."That guy is sooooooooooooooooooooooooo amazingly FAST!":eek:

"And that guy so so slooooooooooooooooooow, herregud!"

"That babe is so HOT!!!!!!" and "OMG! arf! arf! wot a DOG!"

No subtlety...I mock it often in the way I spell and stretch out and make fonts bigger...I do it because its hard to take seriously when somebody says somebody 0,1 or 0,2 s/km off the best man in the world is SLOW.

(Kinda funny, many years ago I had conversation with the most beautiful girl---from Ekerö--outside Stockholm---and she said she had talked to a Professor who said the reason the English speaking peoples were nuts is because there did not exsist in English the equivalent for the (swedish) word 'nog'.. I said "Tell proff he's full of (hot air) (not really)...The workd "enough" and the word nog are the same thing..or at one time were the same thing...never got into her pants after that..the prof was her dad!!)

Enough then this silly talk about slow Mads..
I won't say Ben Klock is slow....just not fast enough---for the car he buys---to gain any respect.

All true, except Ken is still the fastest shoe seller on earth is he not?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

why you are arguing about a nobody ?

The fact people are talking about him proves the opposite.

Your view is just the opinion of a nobody.

[janvanvurpa]

All true, except Ken is still the fastest shoe seller on earth is he not?


No he cashed out maybe 12 years ago and as far as I know only has some nameplate, no day to day connection..


On March 8, 2004, DC Shoes was acquired by Quiksilver (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiksilver) in an US$ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_dollar)87 million transaction.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_Shoes#cite_note-Quiksilver-Mar-2004-8-K-4)[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_Shoes#cite_note-5) In 2010, DC Shoes moved from Vista, California (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vista,_California), to Quiksilver's headquarters in Huntington Beach (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huntington_Beach).[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_Shoes#cite_note-6) The Huntington Beach location is closed down



Quicksilver:
http://www.quiksilverinc.com/History/History-of-Firsts

Major Acquisitions
Having globalized the company through acquisition of its licensees, Quiksilver became the first boardriding company to focus on acquiring major, likeminded brands, such as DC Shoes in 2003 and Rossignol in 2005, with a view to building a family of brands covering the outdoor sector.

[janvanvurpa]

The fact people are talking about him proves the opposite.

Your view is just the opinion of a nobody.

In that respect he has lots of experience.

[Rally Power]

(...)
Hyundai has criticised Thierry Neuville for an "unnecessary" accident on Rally Mexico, but it believes he can recover by winning the next World Rally Championship round in Argentina.
One of the pre-event favourites in Mexico, Neuville lost his chance of victory when he sustained a broken suspension arm on the first gravel stage of the event.
He rejoined under Rally2 for Saturday but crashed again and had to be hospitalised for precautionary checks.
Hyundai team manager Alain Penasse was perturbed by the second shunt.
"The accident on the first day can happen when you are fighting for a win," Penasse told Autosport.
"He made a mistake, that is clear. The second accident was not necessary.
"We made it clear in the morning we wanted him to bring the car back to score a few manufacturer points, so we didn't understand why he drove at a speed which was too much."
(...)
"The plan is quite simple in Argentina: he will have the same fantastic road position that Meeke had there last year and if he can do what Kris did last year then we will be happy.
"When you have this good road position, there's no point hanging around."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123154?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Ok, Neuville is far to impress, but I don’t get why Penasse is always ready to publicly criticize his top driver…is he just trying to make people forget that the new car isn’t able to match the Polo?

[EstWRC]

ok, im gonna jump on the bandwagon here :p ...how do you know it isnt as fast as Polo?

[Rally Power]

I know, you know, everybody knows...;)

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

Does anyone seen the monster stage onboard on WRC+..?

[stefanvv]

ok, im gonna jump on the bandwagon here :p ...how do you know it isnt as fast as Polo?

Polo is developed 4+ years, this one less than year.

[Grundo Farb]

Ok, Neuville is far to impress, but I don’t get why Penasse is always ready to publicly criticize his top driver…is he just trying to make people forget that the new car isn’t able to match the Polo?

Because he is not the top driver - they are all treated equally. What Penasse says is 100% correct. First mistake fine, he was pushing. Second mistake why? You watch the onboard and he was going crazy fast - too fast. The team should understandably be annoyed at him as they want points not him winning stages.

I think Mr Neuville is extremely arrogant, the public statements I think are the tip of the iceberg of how the team feel about him I think. You read Paddons twitter answers to questions like "do you spend time with your team mates" or "whats it like having experienced team mates to learn from". His answers always say, Dani is awesome, very friendly and has helped him a lot. He never mentions Neuville.

[Rally Power]

Because he is not the top driver - they are all treated equally. What Penasse says is 100% correct. First mistake fine, he was pushing. Second mistake why? You watch the onboard and he was going crazy fast - too fast. The team should understandably be annoyed at him as they want points not him winning stages.
I think Mr Neuville is extremely arrogant, the public statements I think are the tip of the iceberg of how the team feel about him I think.

Maybe all 3 Hyundai’s drivers are now treated the same way, but Neuville still is the most designated driver for manu points. His first driver status was clear in ’14 and even during ’15, despite his Wales step back. He was also the best ranked Hyundai driver and is, probably, the best paid one.

He may look a bit lost or arrogant, but his amazing driving skills didn’t disappear. It’s not clear what made Neuville apparently less focused or motivated, but it’s hard to believe that Penasse comments to the press (even if accurate) will have a positive effect on the Belgium.

[Mk2 RS2000]

Maybe all 3 Hyundai’s drivers are now treated the same way, but Neuville still is the most designated driver for manu points. His first driver status was clear in ’14 and even during ’15, despite his Wales step back. He was also the best ranked Hyundai driver and is, probably, the best paid one.

He may look a bit lost or arrogant, but his amazing driving skills didn’t disappear. It’s not clear what made Neuville apparently less focused or motivated, but it’s hard to believe that Penasse comments to the press (even if accurate) will have a positive effect on the Belgium.

Sordo is the nominated driver this year.

The feeling I have is that Neuville does not understand that it is the Manufacturers Championship that is the priority for Hyundai, not the Drivers championship, that is the bonus issue. The second thing is that last year he bagged the car in public, that is something you never do with an Asian manufacturer, loyalty is number one. They pay back loyalty big time and cut adrift those who are not loyal back to them.

[rayh_mx]

It was nice while it lasted, but no repeat ..
Rally Mexico will drop ITS 50-mile stage WRC for 2017 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123211)

[tommeke_B]

I'd prefer to see "endurance" as being long days (with lots of hours an lots of SS kms), rather than just a long stage. As they say in the article, there's no real added value.

[Franky]

It was nice while it lasted, but no repeat ..
Rally Mexico will drop ITS 50-mile stage WRC for 2017 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123211)

The accountant (WRC Promoter) has spoken.

[nafpaktos]

I think Neuville will continue these kind of appearances.I think he is overestimated.Over all what he's done as driver until now?just a good half year some years ago with ford and some scarce good appearances with hyundai.Some will blame the car but i don't think this is the reason.Paddon with the <same> car with less testing performed relatively better if we take in mind his lack of experience.My question is what chances abbring will take??????????????

[TWRC]

I think Neuville will continue these kind of appearances.I think he is overestimated.Over all what he's done as driver until now?just a good half year some years ago with ford and some scarce good appearances with hyundai.Some will blame the car but i don't think this is the reason.Paddon with the <same> car with less testing performed relatively better if we take in mind his lack of experience.My question is what chances abbring will take??????????????
Neuville was pretty good in 2011 IRC, and had he stayed with Citroën beyond 2012, I think he could be in a better place now. I thought him going to Hyundai was a career suicide (though at first I thought the team won't be up to par, not the driver), and sadly it seems I was right, but I really hope that he can turn this around, and not just for his, but for the championship's sake too.

[stefanvv]

I think Neuville will continue these kind of appearances.I think he is overestimated.Over all what he's done as driver until now?just a good half year some years ago with ford and some scarce good appearances with hyundai.Some will blame the car but i don't think this is the reason.Paddon with the <same> car with less testing performed relatively better if we take in mind his lack of experience.My question is what chances abbring will take??????????????

Neuville vs Paddon is not an easy issue. Paddon comes from nowhere and must constantly (im)prove himself. Neuville jumped into the car as the "big star" which is supposed to win titles and respect just for his pay check amount and recent achievements. The reality is different though....

[Mirek]

Neuville was pretty good in 2011 IRC, and had he stayed with Citroën beyond 2012, I think he could be in a better place now. I thought him going to Hyundai was a career suicide (though at first I thought the team won't be up to par, not the driver), and sadly it seems I was right, but I really hope that he can turn this around, and not just for his, but for the championship's sake too.

He ended 2011 IRC season on 5th place behind Mikkelsen, Kopecký, Hänninen and Loix. He did 10 events, Mikkelsen 11, Kopecký 10, Hänninen and Loix both only 8 but they still finished ahead. Though I have to admit that Škoda definitely had better car than Peugeot in that time.

[Rally Power]

Neuville vs Paddon is not an easy issue. Paddon comes from nowhere and must constantly (im)prove himself. Neuville jumped into the car as the "big star" which is supposed to win titles and respect just for his pay check amount and recent achievements. The reality is different though....

It's true that Paddon is doing a great job, just like Neuville did back in 2012 as Citroen 3rd driver. The Belgium ’13 season with Ford was even more remarkable and his first year with Hyundai was also very positive. Why wasn't he able to progress during '15? What happened with him or with the team? Can he get back to his best? Will he be able to do it with Hyundai? Maybe only after knowing the answer to these questions we can make a fair judgment on Neuville's current situation. It’s too soon to call him the new Duval.

Btw, many tend to forget that Paddon started a regular WRC career before Neuville, on PWRC field. For sure since 2012 Neuville was able to progress much more quickly, but the talented Kiwi is far from being a newcomer.

[stefanvv]

Btw, many tend to forget that Paddon started a regular WRC career before Neuville, on PWRC field. For sure since 2012 Neuville was able to progress much more quickly, but the talented Kiwi is far from being a newcomer.

May be misunderstanding, I meant from wrc car experience perspective, I know Paddon was in PWRC/SWRC fields.

[dimviii]

Ogier onboard from the 80 km stage.Any brave to watch? Its just 46 minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgZLjM7zyXo

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

Two minutes & 6.8s less than actual time.

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

[rayh_mx]

Ogier onboard from the 80 km stage.Any brave to watch? Its just 46 minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgZLjM7zyXo

44:35 i was there :D