2016 Silly Season

[dimviii]

The fact is that 13 years of Sebs dominance have raised too much our expectations regarding young drivers.

very true.

[dimviii]

It is a kind of record? Only 33 rallies to be official driver?

EDIT: Ogier did it :)

Loeb became official driver for Citroen at 29 rallies.

[Simmi]

I guess no reason to assume Camilli is paying. If Wilson reportedly put two guys in cars without funding this year - having Ostberg money, plus a chunk from Bertelli puts him in a much better situation. Thinking about it if Camilli was so well funded surely he'd have done more rallies up to this point?

[Mirek]

Loeb became official driver for Citroen at 29 rallies.

And both Loeb and Ogier had very limited experience even from local French events.

[Mirek]

I guess no reason to assume Camilli is paying. If Wilson reportedly put two guys in cars without funding this year - having Ostberg money, plus a chunk from Bertelli puts him in a much better situation. Thinking about it if Camilli was so well funded surely he'd have done more rallies up to this point?

Let's not forget a lot of money from D-Mack too :)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Message from Craig Breen's co-driver this morning sounds like they were hoping to get the M-Sport seat..

😡😡😡 this goes down as bad news Monday. Not a good start to my week! Knew there was a reason I didn't sleep last night ! #rally #2016

[dimviii]

And both Loeb and Ogier had very limited experience even from local French events.

i just searched Loeb palmares,and when he became Citroen official driver( at end of November 2000),he had compete outside of France,at 4(!!!) rallies only.
At 1999 Catalunya,Corsica,San Remo with Saxo kit car
At 2000 Corsica with Corolla wrc

[eestlane]

If the tenth man in WRC2 is the best man for the job then everybody else should slow down! Mystery solved!

I would be surprised if he stays there 2017. Why else is Elfyn still in the team.

2016 money drivers in

2017 Tänak and Evans in, Tänak or Evans in

[NoName]

I guess no reason to assume Camilli is paying. If Wilson reportedly put two guys in cars without funding this year - having Ostberg money, plus a chunk from Bertelli puts him in a much better situation. Thinking about it if Camilli was so well funded surely he'd have done more rallies up to this point?

Ostberg is getting paid for the seat

[rp]

In the case of Camilli and Lefebrve they haven't even proved themselves to be amongst the best in the next category down yet. In F1 it is common for GP2 backmarkers to make the jump but the top WRC drivers should be a pretty elite group.

Was thinking the same! Of course Lefebvre won JWRC last year and WRC2 in Monte Carlo, but nothing else during this season. Yes, he had many problems with the bad DS3 R5, but made also many crashes and mistakes and was not able to fight with the WRC2 top drivers. Nothing impressive also behind the wheel of the DS3 WRC, but we have to remember that Citroën seems something else and he did not need to show his speed, but just learning.

Surely it would have better for Lefebvre to try to win WRC2 Championship first and exactly the same thing with Camilli. He has so little experience at all that it will be a huge risk if he is not able to show something special next year. We know that Malcolm Wilson has always high hopes about a new driver, but after one or two years he will lost his interest if the driver is not fighting all the time with the top drivers.

But both of them are the French drivers and they are dominating the WRC nowadays, so it will be possible that they are following the route of Loeb and Ogier...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I think Wilson is planning really long-term and really seriously thinks that Camilli is the one that could be a future champion. He is probably totally tired of having these 'good' drivers and wants one that shows the potential to be 'great'.

Plodding along finishing last of the WRC teams is only acceptable for so long before its time to make a big change and try to develop someone into the best driver.

There's just no point in M-Sport staying in the WRC otherwise.

[Andre Oliveira]

Yes, Camilli and Gilbert looks potential great drivers. Lets wait.

[macebig]

If Wilson wants to find the next champion he should pick up the phone and hire Emil Bergkvist for a Fiesta R5 program in ERC.

[EightGear]

Gilbert? He has been around for years and finally won JWRC against much less experienced competition. His star has stopped shining years ago.

[rallyace]

If Wilson wants to find the next champion he should pick up the phone and hire Emil Bergkvist for a Fiesta R5 program in ERC.

This.

Can't wait to see how he develops. He could be an absolute star in the making, but sometimes it comes down to getting the right opportunity at the right time. He'll likely make the most of it.

[Andre Oliveira]

The driver should be Protasov

[dimviii]

There's just no point in M-Sport staying in the WRC otherwise.

Wilson stays at wrc for money,not for championships.
If he win the championship,he is not going to sell/rent even 1 more car,than now.So there is no reason to spend millions for drivers.
Of course he will be at wrc forever,regardless championships and whatever positions he take.

[Mirek]

The driver should be Protasov

Seriously?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Wilson stays at wrc for money,not for championships.
If he win the championship,he is not going to sell/rent even 1 more car,than now.So there is no reason to spend millions for drivers.
Of course he will be at wrc forever,regardless championships and whatever positions he take.

Maybe in the past, but M-Sport is doing well financially nowadays and I think he wants to see some real rally success in the future.

[dimviii]

Maybe in the past, but M-Sport is doing well financially nowadays and I think he wants to see some real rally success in the future.

imho Wilson will search seriously for a top driver only with someone else money(ford,or other big sponsor)
Wilson prefers his bank account success better.For the future he just wants to earn some more.And thats something totally right.

[dimviii]

rumors at French site said that Nicolas Klinger will be Camillis new co driver.

[Mirek]

That's good news for afterparties I think :)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

imho Wilson will search seriously for a top driver only with someone else money(ford,or other big sponsor)
Wilson prefers his bank account success better.For the future he just wants to earn some more.And thats something totally right.

I think continued WRC failure will actually be detrimental to M-Sport and they now have to improve their results.

[Mariusz]

I think continued WRC failure will actually be detrimental to M-Sport and they now have to improve their results.
There is a chance they will be third in manufacturers classification in 2016 ;)

[Simmi]

Ostberg is getting paid for the seat

Okay man if you say so. Welcome to the forum.

[Rallyper]

Someone here who can give us Camilli records. Wins? Where and when?

[Simmi]

Someone here who can give us Camilli records. Wins? Where and when?

Ewrc is your friend
http://www.ewrc-results.com/profile.php?p=39567&t=Eric-Camilli

Anyone know what he was doing 2010-2012? Studies?

What I find funny about the whole thing (this is not directed at you Rallyper) is that Wilson would get criticized either way. If he'd kept Evans he'd have been slated for doing so. By going for another young talent he's also been called crazy. He can't really win.

[Mariusz]

I didn't notice it at first, but Eric is 28, so not that young, I'd say.

[Andre Oliveira]

And? Rally is not football. Sebastien Loeb with 30s was not the best of the best?

[Rally Power]

Wilson (...) will be at wrc forever,regardless championships and whatever positions he take.

That's Wilson major achievement and the reason why he deserves huge respect from the rally world!

Because of his management abilities he was the only guy that survive in WRC as an independent player. In the process he was able to preserve Ford historic brand at WRC, provide affordable competitive rally cars for costumers all around the world, develop a state-of-the-art engineering center, generate hundreds of highly specialized jobs and put young talented drivers into WRC top level.

For WRC, and the rally sport, it'd be great to get more Wilsons. Hope Makinen can became one of them!

[Rally Power]

Ewrc is your friend
http://www.ewrc-results.com/profile.php?p=39567&t=Eric-Camilli
Anyone know what he was doing 2010-2012? Studies?


No money to compete! http://www.ericcamilli.com/index.php/fr/parcours

[Rallyper]

For sure someone must pay to get him drives. Results doesn´t impress. But his name was on everyons lips last year.

[bassist]

Do You suggest that Camilli bought the seat? Do You have any proof for that? I'm really surprised with the choice of him as well though.

I have no proof of anything, all I said was `Cash is King`! I would be very suprised if this addition to the team has a pay off down the line somewhere. Wilson needs investment if he intends competing in the new format in 2017!

[Mariusz]

Ewrc is your friend
http://www.ewrc-results.com/profile.php?p=39567&t=Eric-Camilli

What I find funny about the whole thing (this is not directed at you Rallyper) is that Wilson would get criticized either way. If he'd kept Evans he'd have been slated for doing so. By going for another young talent he's also been called crazy. He can't really win.


And? Rally is not football. Sebastien Loeb with 30s was not the best of the best?

He may be a talent, but not a young one anymore.

[Rallyper]

Everyone yelled about Camilli and then Toyota hired him on qualifications I don´t understand. Then MW chooses him 28 yrs old despite no own funding and no results to be impressed by ? Let´s see what MW knows that we idiots do not.

N.O.T.??? Where are you? Explain!

[Leon]

what is the program of Bergkvist for 20016?

[Dug83]

The thing is if Camilli does turnout to be a star M-Sport won't be able to afford to keep him in 2017 anyway. With the supposed return of two manufactures in 2017 they'd surely snap him up if he's any good. M-Sport will be nothing more than a place where manufactures let them develop drivers and offer them a seat if they're any good or if you're steady and got lots of cash.

Best of luck to him anyway as he'll need it!!!

[EstWRC]

Now that the drivers are basically confirmed, im both happy and dissapointed. Out of my three favourites and drivers who really pushed VW's on some rallies, Tänak, Meeke, Paddon, only Paddon got a good deal. Nothing is heard of Meeke, Tänak has to drive with those hubba bubba tires but im really happy that he drives at all.

The only hope for me is that the new Hyundai is really good and Neuville gets his mojo back and Paddon makes again good progress and really gives hard times for VW's. Otherwise the VW's will win the title already in Poland. Ogier's title will depend on Latvala and Mikkelsen.

But i think we will still have an interesting season, the VW's may be 1-2-3 on every rally but the fight for 4th up to 10th place, the evolution of Dmacks and progress of Camiili will be very interesting to watch.

And we will see even more of this from Tänak because he has to make up the deficit of the tires :p
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg2Q8d-TNPQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXQQdhJuQNQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6jjBDWy_sc

[N.O.T]

N.O.T.??? Where are you? Explain!

I just do not like silly season speculation much i prefer rallies from gossip for little girls...

Camilli is nothing, and that is the reason wilson choose him, he prefers drivers that either pay or are free.

[rallyfiend]

The thing is if Camilli does turnout to be a star M-Sport won't be able to afford to keep him in 2017 anyway. With the supposed return of two manufactures in 2017 they'd surely snap him up if he's any good. M-Sport will be nothing more than a place where manufactures let them develop drivers and offer them a seat if they're any good or if you're steady and got lots of cash.

Best of luck to him anyway as he'll need it!!!

Depends on the options that MW can have over the future.

It's quite a well-known fact that the first year Thierry was at Hyundai, he had to spend most of his (nicely large) money to pay back Malcolm and Nasser who invested in him to give him the WRC drive at M-Sport....

[tommeke_B]

It's quite a well-known fact that the first year Thierry was at Hyundai, he had to spend most of his (nicely large) money to pay back Malcolm and Nasser who invested in him to give him the WRC drive at M-Sport....

LOL! The ones who know the least talk the most. I don't believe many of these "well-known facts" posted here on the forum.

[rallyfiend]

LOL! The ones who know the least talk the most. I don't believe many of these "well-known facts" posted here on the forum.

You think that Qatar branding was on his Citroen as some sort of PR action to drive tourism to that part of the world while using a Belgian driver?

Next time you see Thierry, ask him how Nasser invested in his career. He's quite open about it.

[leighton323]

LOL! The ones who know the least talk the most. I don't believe many of these "well-known facts" posted here on the forum.
Paddon will be paying back his investors with his new contract, I can tell you that

[vino_93]

Ewrc is your friend
http://www.ewrc-results.com/profile.php?p=39567&t=Eric-Camilli

Anyone know what he was doing 2010-2012? Studies?


Yes. He started rally, but that doesn't work well as he had no money. So he focused on studies (he wanted to become chartered-accountant).
Then he tried Rallye Jeune and won (or finished second ? Don't remember, but he had the drive with Laskowski). Then he moved to 208 Cup, did well but crashed too many times to be champion, so he didn't finish the championship ... he did a few JWRC and was fast, and then moved to TMG.

[rage82]

Now that, let's say almost all drives are settled for 2016 what do you guys think about that: Meeke and Lefebvre with partial program in 2016 with PH sport ( already running the car of Lefebvre ) and developing the 2017 car around them and in 2017 both a factory Citroen drivers?

[Karukera]

Paddon will be paying back his investors with his new contract, I can tell you that

It's been common practise in the WRC for ages. Timo Jouhki never worked for free.

[Simmi]

Now that, let's say almost all drives are settled for 2016 what do you guys think about that: Meeke and Lefebvre with partial program in 2016 with PH sport ( already running the car of Lefebvre ) and developing the 2017 car around them and in 2017 both a factory Citroen drivers?

Apart from a select few all current driver contracts are up heading into 2017. So all the top guys (apart from Mikkelsen) should be available. So with that said it would be foolish for Citroen to lock up two long-term deals right now. One (Meeke) would make sense. I'd guess they want to see some more from Lefebvre next year.

[PLuto]

Such an understatement of Lefebvre's case. He won JWRC and JERC in 2014 and he's pace in R2 at the time was unmatched. He's move up to 4WD has been disappointing, but at least I have not given up on him yet.

Thats not completely true, Lefebvre in JERC he was not "unmatched". In Latvia, before his retirement, there were 4-5 drivers usually faster than him. In Acores he was fastest as his rivals were making too many mistakes. In Ypres he was pushing as he was closing the gap after loss on one stage and won only because of win in first stage as he had in finish same time like Andrea Crugnola. On Barum he was also first, but he was only one without problems, Zawada, Griebel or Crugnola were on same pace. In Tour de Corse, despite lack of competitors, Lefebvre was on most of the stages slower than Crugnola and Andolfi and sometimes also than Gino Bux (but of course, there was part of tactics as he must finish the rally). So in total, Lefebvre won the championship, but it was not so big domination and mostly Cerny and Crugnola were on same speed (Cerny only in first half, the he lost everything due to his mind). Of course, JWRC was much easier for him.

[PLuto]

Ostberg is getting paid for the seat

Joke of the year :)

[Viking]

Joke of the year :)

Remembering Petter said that the only time he had to take money from his own pocket for a seat was at the 2012 “Factory Ford” M-Sport team… I guess Mads has to bring a £ or two...

[NoName]

Remembering Petter said that the only time he had to take money from his own pocket for a seat was at the 2012 “Factory Ford” M-Sport team… I guess Mads has to bring a £ or two...

Tried to put out the link where he tells it. But I also know from Mads himself, That hi is a paid driver next year

[N.O.T]

Tried to put out the link where he tells it. But I also know from Mads himself, That hi is a paid driver next year

No he is not, he never was, no matter what he says.

[TWRC]

Remembering Petter said that the only time he had to take money from his own pocket for a seat was at the 2012 “Factory Ford” M-Sport team… I guess Mads has to bring a £ or two...
If I remember correctly, in 2010 he also had to pay for the last three rallies or so since some of his sponsors left or simply didn't pay.

[NoName]

No he is not, he never was, no matter what he says.

Never was? He was also a paid driver in Citroen.

[N.O.T]

never was? He was also a paid driver in citroen.

lol...

[NoName]

lol...

rofl....

[Co-FIN]

..

[NoName]

After reading here for a few years, from when I was even active driver and now. Then there are a lot of things that are being claimed. But rarely is correct

[OnlyRally]

Never was? He was also a paid driver in Citroen.
Stop dreaming!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

BILLIOT Jérémie ‏@planetemarcus 21s21 seconds ago
#WRC French newspaper @lequipe speak about Camilli deal 2 years contract with M-SPORT...

[OnlyRally]

After reading here for a few years, from when I was even active driver and now. Then there are a lot of things that are being claimed. But rarely is correct

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

[Simmi]

13 rounds for Bertelli. Everywhere but China.

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/november-2015/bertelli-in-2016/page/3028--12-12-.html

Will be a new team name. Will probably be a new livery? Will there be a team-mate?

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

If he win the championship,he is not going to sell/rent even 1 more car,than now.So there is no reason to spend millions for drivers.
:ehem:VW:ehem:

[N.O.T]

After reading here for a few years, from when I was even active driver and now. Then there are a lot of things that are being claimed. But rarely is correct

how do you know what is correct and what is not ?

[dimviii]

:ehem:VW:ehem:

we are talking about M-sport rally cars sales,not vw or hyundai.

[RAS007]

The thing is if Camilli does turnout to be a star M-Sport won't be able to afford to keep him in 2017 anyway. With the supposed return of two manufactures in 2017 they'd surely snap him up if he's any good. M-Sport will be nothing more than a place where manufactures let them develop drivers and offer them a seat if they're any good or if you're steady and got lots of cash.

Best of luck to him anyway as he'll need it!!!


Remembering Petter said that the only time he had to take money from his own pocket for a seat was at the 2012 “Factory Ford” M-Sport team… I guess Mads has to bring a £ or two...

Why does Malcolm refuse to put his hand in his pocket to pay for a decent driver? He could easily afford to. If he's going to bitch about being frustrated at the potential of the Fiesta, then he only has himself to blame for the distinctly mediocre results; a quite bizarre philosophy, given everything else he has done with MW Motorsport/M-Sport. It would be like building a competitive WRC car and then putting shitey tires on it. Oh, wait…..

[dodge33cymru]

Once again though, like who? He got Ostberg, who's almost certainly the best on the market, but all other contenders are under contract to Hyundai, VW or Citroen already. This year he tried paying for two drivers, but they hardly repaid him. Next year, there's every chance they'll get trounced by the two main teams anyway and he's got the best driver for points scoring and getting good finishes in Mads; from all the names mentioned, is there really anyone worth paying more for?

[Simmi]

Malcolm also could not have been clearer that he wanted Neuville this year. He literally came right out and said it in a bid to tempt him over. As dodge33cymru said it's hard when everyone is under contract. Malcolm's certainly not going to buy out a contract and then pay a driver on top of that.


In Motorsport News today he is quoted as saying on Elfyn:
"We're working on keeping Elfyn involved. It looks like it's going to take a few weeks, but we definitely want him around and we want him in the car. I can't talk about what sort of programme it would be, but it's possible we could switch drivers around in the main team and he could be there on some of the events.

"For example in the second half of the year there are four asphalt events and Elfyn goes really well on that surface."

[EstWRC]

lol, Wilson has now so many drivers that he cant decide which one will be driving or not. Camili seems to be better on tarmac and Mads isnt very good on tarmac, so... AT the same time Ostberg's management said that he will do all rounds. It means then that Camili has to leave for 4 rallies?

i dont believe Wilson.

[Simmi]

A really good, reasoned post on M-Sport/Elfyn/Ott/Malcolm etc by Jerry Williams - http://jezzarallyblog.blogspot.co.uk/

As Colin Clark said on Twitter there's been a lot of crap written about the whole thing - mostly from people with short memories.

[Simmi]

Quite big news as Mads Ostberg and Jonas Andersson partnership breaks up for 2016.

http://www.tv2.no/2015/12/02/sport/mads-ostberg/motorsport/rally/7735043

Jonas signed a deal with EVEN. Not sure who he will partner next year but now right on the eve of Monte testing Mads has no co-driver!

[AndyRAC]

Somebody has to pay for the WRC programme - and it seems Malcolm has the last season. Now he's decided he won't anymore - so drivers with funding will have to. Elfyn could have kept a full WRC seat - if he could get the money - but like Kris, as a Brit, he's got no chance of raising sponsorship; similarly, M-Sport need a Title sponsor - but where are they supposed to get one from?

[Rally Power]

Somebody has to pay for the WRC programme - and it seems Malcolm has the last season. Now he's decided he won't anymore - so drivers with funding will have to. Elfyn could have kept a full WRC seat - if he could get the money

Come on Andy, this moaning about Evans step back it's a bit over dramatic...

Wilson gave (for sure it's the proper word) Evans 3 wrc seasons: 2013 (WRC2), '14 and '15.

He did a promising job on the first two but this year he completely stagnated (I think even Evans has admit it).

Maybe WRC2, ERC or BRC can help getting his confidence back. We all remember how important was IRC to revamp Meeke career!

[tommeke_B]

"Revamp" Meeke's career??? In contrary to Evans now, Meeke never had a real opportunity in WRC (only JWRC) before his IRC-seasons.

[AndyRAC]

Come on Andy, this moaning about Evans step back it's a bit over dramatic...

Wilson gave (for sure it's the proper word) Evans 3 wrc seasons: 2013 (WRC2), '14 and '15.

He did a promising job on the first two but this year he completely stagnated (I think even Evans has admit it).

Maybe WRC2, ERC or BRC can help getting his confidence back. We all remember how important was IRC to revamp Meeke career!

You misunderstand - I actually don't have a problem with the decision - he hasn't stepped it up a level this year - but if he had the £$£$£ he probably would still have a drive. My issue is that the sport in the UK can't generate sponsors, mainstream interest, etc

[focus206]

Come on Andy, this moaning about Evans step back it's a bit over dramatic...

Wilson gave (for sure it's the proper word) Evans 3 wrc seasons: 2013 (WRC2), '14 and '15.

He did a promising job on the first two but this year he completely stagnated (I think even Evans has admit it).

Maybe WRC2, ERC or BRC can help getting his confidence back. We all remember how important was IRC to revamp Meeke career!

I don't agree that Evans did such a bad job this year as some say. He didn't reach what it was expected from him, but look at the final standings, he missed 6th place by one point from Neuville, finishing in front of Tanak, Sordo and Paddon (the latter 2 did one event less though). In an ideal WRC I would have kept both Evans and Tanak for another year, but well that's not how it works...

[macebig]

"Revamp" Meeke's career??? In contrary to Evans now, Meeke never had a real opportunity in WRC (only JWRC) before his IRC-seasons.

Unfortunately McRae's passing and the Prodrive-BMW debacle really hurted his chances.

[Rally Power]

"Revamp" Meeke's career??? In contrary to Evans now, Meeke never had a real opportunity in WRC (only JWRC) before his IRC-seasons.

Why all those question marks?

After 4 JWRC seasons (some of them with McRae support, others with Citroen backing) the logical step for Meeke was to go into a WRC team, but his erratic results didn't open any door. He was doing local rallys in Ireland and Barbados when Peugeot invite him for IRC. Can you get a better example for a career revamp move?

PS: Now I've got it Andy. Maybe revived BRC can change the picture.

[TheFlyingTuga]

Why all those question marks?

After 4 JWRC seasons (some of them with McRae support, others with Citroen backing) the logical step for Meeke was to go into a WRC team, but his erratic results didn't open any door. He was doing local rallys in Ireland and Barbados when Peugeot invite him for IRC. Can you get a better example for a career revamp move?

PS: Now I've got it Andy. Maybe revived BRC can change the picture.

Mikkelsen, Abbring...

The first one went full WRC in 2006 and by 2008 nobody remember who he was anymore. He got back to Norway before start again with the Skoda UK program on IRC for two years and then get to the official VW Fabias.

Abbring was in the JWRC the same year as Neuville, and both where beat by Burkark. He made a few more outings with the Clio R3 in their European Champ before getting the chance to go to the VW Fabias team. After VW entered officialy the WRC in 2013, he step really back, going to the 208 Cup in France and climbed his way back to the top. For me Abbring it's the young gun with most potencial of those who are not currently in the WRC.

[Nornbugger]

[QUOTE=focus206;1073497]I don't agree that Evans did such a bad job this year as some say. [QUOTE]

I'd agree with this, the Sebs have made some people think success should be instant. I hope this is not the end for Evans but even if it is I'm glad he got a the chance that Ford never gave his father, Gwyndaf IMHO could have been a WRC winner if he had been given a proper break.

[Mintexmemory]

[QUOTE=focus206;1073497]I don't agree that Evans did such a bad job this year as some say. [QUOTE]

I'd agree with this, the Sebs have made some people think success should be instant. I hope this is not the end for Evans but even if it is I'm glad he got a the chance that Ford never gave his father, Gwyndaf IMHO could have been a WRC winner if he had been given a proper break.

Gwyndaf would never have got the break due to his total lack of PR nous. Great driver but not even marketable in the UK outside of mid-Wales.

[Nornbugger]

[QUOTE=Nornbugger;1073506][QUOTE=focus206;1073497]I don't agree that Evans did such a bad job this year as some say.

Gwyndaf would never have got the break due to his total lack of PR nous. Great driver but not even marketable in the UK outside of mid-Wales.

A damn fine driver though

[RS]

Jonas Andersson confirmed with Tidemand.

[AL14]

Why Andersson leave Ostberg to go with Tidemand? Does someone know what happened?

[Simmi]

Why Andersson leave Ostberg to go with Tidemand? Does someone know what happened?

They seemed to be a pretty strong partnership - together since 2009. The move looks to have taken Mads by surprise.

All I can think is that EVEN made him a good deal. Maybe they showed him their future plans for Tidemand and he bought into that?

[EstWRC]

My guess is connection with VW and mads has reached his peak already some years ago.

[Lundefaret]

Why Andersson leave Ostberg to go with Tidemand? Does someone know what happened?

Maybe it could have something to do about pay?
In Citroën both Mads and Jonas got a paycheque. I dont think it was huge, but still. And they got bonuses for podium positions.
I dont know the deal between Mads and Malcolm, but would think that the best Mads could hope for is to drive for free (if anyone has more information, please chip in.)
If EVEN Management could provide a better salary and a more secure future, that could off course have something to do with it.
M-Sport is not a factory team, so former factory driver M-Sport will be a step back.
EVEN Management has several codrivers in their system, and they have drivers coming up that could need an experienced codriver - like OC Veiby, and off course Pontus.
Since the decision came quit abruptly, and just after the end with Citroëm and the new beginning with M-Sport was announced, I would think this could have something to do with it?

[AL14]

Yes money and perspective could have a role, especially money :)

That's what I thought too. I've asked it because maybe there were some more solid source than our intuition but it appears not. Jeez those drivers and co-drivers are so reserved...
I'm still looking for the reason why Mikkelsen stopped with Floene and went with Markkula before going to VW but it's hard to find something...

[skarderud]

Ola and Andreas was just tired of each other, and needed that brake to get together again.

[skarderud]

The M-sport deal was ready for 3 months ago, so Jonas could easily find a earlier time to give Mads a hint about his future.
Good future and paycheck is probably some of the thing.

[PLuto]

I'm still looking for the reason why Mikkelsen stopped with Floene and went with Markkula before going to VW but it's hard to find something...

Come to some ERC event next year, in a pub at the beer I will tell you the truth ;)

[AL14]

Come to some ERC event next year, in a pub at the beer I will tell you the truth ;)

Well I can offer you this by now. :beer: and you can use the PM button if you wish ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Becs Williams ‏@Becsywecsy
'Regroup' podcast still coming together... Just spoke with Malcolm Wilson... a must listen for all the people convinced that Camilli paid for his drive.
Malcolm also talks about how he got Camilli signed up and what he hopes the Frenchman will achieve. We chat about Elfyn also & whether we'll see him in '16.

Should be interesting !

[EstWRC]

Meeke to Toyota? http://beta.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122137/meeke-closing-on-toyota-wrc-deal

[AL14]

Meeke to Toyota? http://beta.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122137/meeke-closing-on-toyota-wrc-deal

This silly season should have been a boring one but it is turning out to be one of the most interesting. And by the way very good move by Kris.

[EightGear]

Would be sensible for Toyota as well, by having him as a test driver for next year. Would be a shame not to see him in action in any rally in '16 though.

[Simmi]

Yeah a Citroen deal would surely have meant a decent amount of rally seat time for Kris, even if just in an R5 at some points.

But sometimes you have to take a step back to move forward and I think it's worth it to get a full manufacturer deal sorted.

Meeke/Latvala would be some line-up!

[EstWRC]

I agree the silly season has been very exciting. Definitely two new drivers now for Citroen in 2017? And who will develope the new car now?

[EightGear]

I agree the silly season has been very exciting. Definitely two new drivers now for Citroen in 2017? And who will develope the new car now?

That could be a bit of a problem I'm afraid for Citroen. Which proven winner will be available (and wanting to go) in 2017? Maybe they should aim for Latvala because I don't see Ogier leaving VW.

[dodge33cymru]

Wow, that would really surprise me - wouldn't surprise me for Toyota to go for Meeke, but I thought Citroen would have sorted out a deal with him by now, otherwise the decision not to keep Mads looks even more shaky - building a car around Lefevbre is hardly seems the stuff championships are made of.

The only other name I could think of in that development role would be Solberg, but if the rumours are correct that he won't be with Citroen/DS in WRX next year either, I'm at a loss as to who they're going to find available.

Even if they have a Neuville or Latvala sorted for 2017, their current employer won't be letting them drive it until next December.

[pantealex]

LOEB

I think every team says "welcome" if he is ready to test/drive their machinery

[Simmi]

PSA might be wishing they hadn't put out that Loeb press release. It's still all the same company. Can't see why Peugeot would kick up any fuss about Loeb testing the new Citroen. Isn't it even all moving into one shared facility?


All this said - there's still surely a chance Meeke will sign with Citroen. He's just doing the logical thing and speaking to everyone. Now whoever hires him might just need to open the chequebook a bit wider. It might even mean we see more Citroens on events this year for instance.

[Rally Power]

Meeke Toy join up rumor it's great! A Meeke/Latvala/Suninen line up sounds amazing!

Meeke options in Citro are real short, as PH program seems to be very limited and Maton has already said it loud and clear: he wants Neuville in 2017!

Lefebvre can calmly work into the new car development (probably with some help from Loeb), but there's no way he'll become number one driver in 2017.

Btw, the new overall Citro/Pug/DS motorsport structure it's now complete: JM Finot (former PSA R&D president) will run it; Maton is kept as Citroen Racing principal; the same for Farmin at Peugeot Sport; Pinon (current Maton deputy) takes DS Perfomance leardship.

(In a typically french pompous way, the group motorsport arm it's now called: 'Centre Excellence Sport Automobiles PSA' ;))

[AndyRAC]

PSA might be wishing they hadn't put out that Loeb press release. It's still all the same company. Can't see why Peugeot would kick up any fuss about Loeb testing the new Citroen. Isn't it even all moving into one shared facility?


All this said - there's still surely a chance Meeke will sign with Citroen. He's just doing the logical thing and speaking to everyone. Now whoever hires him might just need to open the chequebook a bit wider. It might even mean we see more Citroens on events this year for instance.

It's strange. They're both part of PSA, yet sometimes they don't act like it. When it suits them they're almost separate. Loeb was doing the Dakar months ago, then as a Citroen driver, merely loaned to Peugeot. Now Citroen have dropped him, and now he's a signed up as a Peugeot Sport driver. I can only think Peugeot want the 'link' with Citroen to be broken, and aren't best pleased to see him in the other companies car.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Citroen have played 'hardball' with Meeke all along so I dont blame him for doing the same and let them know he is in demand with other teams..
And I dont think he could have done much more to prove himself in 2015.

If Citroen still want Neuville they are welcome to him after his 2015 performances.

[er88]

Citroen have been very silly to not tie meeke down to a contract quickly imo (after confirming they are staying in WRC for 2017onwards). He is the fastest driver in the WRC apart from Ogier and Latvala (i think he has more raw speed atm that Andreas, who is in a better car), but more importantly Meeke is an experienced driver who has tested many cars over the years. Was involved in the DS3 testing, the peugeot and Citreon R5s, the s2000 pug and ofcourse the mini that seemed a fundamentally decent car (which was let down badly by the engine).

Citroen should have given meeke a deal for next year (at least half of the WRC events + testing) and a deal for the 2017 season. After cutting ties with Loeb, who will they have to test and develop?? Lefebvre wont bring anything to the table..
Its more bad management by Yves im afraid. Especially if Citroen expect to come back in 2017 as serious contenders. Matton's hard on for Neuville could be coming back to bite him?

As for Toyota, Meeke and Hirvonen testing the car along with Makinen does sound promising. Finally some good news coming out of that team, after months of uncertainty....

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

[Sulland]

Jonas Andersson confirmed with Tidemand.

Maybe the drivers just swap codrivers?

[Rallyper]

Tidemand needs a more experienced codriver, if Emil is excused. Jonas has done lots more WRC events. Good for Tidemand who´s in charge for a seat at VW in 2017.

[sindroms]

Becs Williams ‏@Becsywecsy
'Regroup' podcast still coming together... Just spoke with Malcolm Wilson... a must listen for all the people convinced that Camilli paid for his drive.
Malcolm also talks about how he got Camilli signed up and what he hopes the Frenchman will achieve. We chat about Elfyn also & whether we'll see him in '16.

Should be interesting !

Hmmm... is Malcolm really targeting to young guns? There was news he asked for Sirmacis phone number...

[Lundefaret]

Yes money and perspective could have a role, especially money :)

That's what I thought too. I've asked it because maybe there were some more solid source than our intuition but it appears not. Jeez those drivers and co-drivers are so reserved...
I'm still looking for the reason why Mikkelsen stopped with Floene and went with Markkula before going to VW but it's hard to find something...

I was a part of Fløenes split with Mikkelsen, but it didn't turn out the way I expected. So I was also a part of bringing them back together. :)

Ola Fløene is a very nice guy, but he made some very untachtical interviews in the Norwegian news, he was was some what of a loose canon on deck. I also think he was loosing a little motivation, so he maybe was not the professional athlete that You need to be in a modern professional WRC team. He also made some mistakes.
I (and more with me) contacted the management and said that they should consider to do something with the situation.

The "solution" was one that I did not see coming, the hiring of Markula.
I was almost in disbelief when I heard the first inboard stage with the new pair. Markula may be a very good codriver when speaking Finnish, but he is not close to be fluent in English, so not only did Andreas need to get the pace notes in a foreign language, but read by a man that could not speak it very well.

Because of this Andreas had a low turn when it comes to work with the pace notes, that still hurts his driving. If You analyse Mikkelsens onboards You will notice among other aspects that he is not always consequent when it comes to his actions to the pace notes. A "flat" should be pedal to the metal no mather what, when You start to question if a "flat" is really a "flat", and if You heard the note correctly, You are in big trouble.

I think Andreas pointed this out, but I also think that Markula responded by saying it was Mikkelsen that was the problem. So their working relationship was not good, to put it mildly.
I also pointed these factors out to the team in a thread on the Norwegian rally forum, and I questioned the managements decision to select a codriver that doesn't speak English very good.
I got a lot of flak for that, but I also got a lot of calls from people close to Andreas, that said they where very glad some one said this out loud.

The team pointed out that I was wrong, but then they did what proved that they really thought I was right. They changed back.
Ola had in the mean time found new motivation, and he now was more the professional codriver that is expected, and Andreas and Ola found back to earlier happy days. Very good on them both.

Regarding Mikkelsens codriver in the future, I dont know how many years Fløene wants to continue, and I dont think the management knows either, so they are prepping one of Mikkelsens friends to be a future possible codriver for Andreas.
His name is Anders Jæger Synnevåg.
He started out codriving Bernt Kollevold, who works for EVEN management, in the Norwegian Rally Championship in Kollevolds Ex Petter Solberg Celica ST205. He is currently codriving Ole Christian Veiby in the JWRC.

And now off course Jonas Andersson also is contracted by EVEN management, so this means they have several options if/when Ola Fløene decides to hang up his helmet, or other things should occur.

I think the debacle around Fløenes exit and reentry learned EVEN management a lot about the importance of having a stable of codrivers, and I dont think they want to be in the same situation again. So they have worked very professionally for this not to happen.
EVEN Management has several drivers, but Mikkelsen is whit out a doubt the most important one, so he is always prioritised if something should come up, just like he should be. So dont be surprised if it ends up with Jonas Andersson or Anders Jæger Synnevåg cording Mikkelsen in a few years.

[AL14]

I was a part of Fløenes split with Mikkelsen, but it didn't turn out the way I expected. So I was also a part of bringing them back together. :)

Ola Fløene is a very nice guy, but he made some very untachtical interviews in the Norwegian news, he was was some what of a loose canon on deck. I also think he was loosing a little motivation, so he maybe was not the professional athlete that You need to be in a modern professional WRC team. He also made some mistakes.
I (and more with me) contacted the management and said that they should consider to do something with the situation.

The "solution" was one that I did not see coming, the hiring of Markula.
I was almost in disbelief when I heard the first inboard stage with the new pair. Markula may be a very good codriver when speaking Finnish, but he is not close to be fluent in English, so not only did Andreas need to get the pace notes in a foreign language, but read by a man that could not speak it very well.

Because of this Andreas had a low turn when it comes to work with the pace notes, that still hurts his driving. If You analyse Mikkelsens onboards You will notice among other aspects that he is not always consequent when it comes to his actions to the pace notes. A "flat" should be pedal to the metal no mather what, when You start to question if a "flat" is really a "flat", and if You heard the note correctly, You are in big trouble.

I think Andreas pointed this out, but I also think that Markula responded by saying it was Mikkelsen that was the problem. So their working relationship was not good, to put it mildly.
I also pointed these factors out to the team in a thread on the Norwegian rally forum, and I questioned the managements decision to select a codriver that doesn't speak English very good.
I got a lot of flak for that, but I also got a lot of calls from people close to Andreas, that said they where very glad some one said this out loud.

The team pointed out that I was wrong, but then they did what proved that they really thought I was right. They changed back.
Ola had in the mean time found new motivation, and he now was more the professional codriver that is expected, and Andreas and Ola found back to earlier happy days. Very good on them both.

Regarding Mikkelsens codriver in the future, I dont know how many years Fløene wants to continue, and I dont think the management knows either, so they are prepping one of Mikkelsens friends to be a future possible codriver for Andreas.
His name is Anders Jæger Synnevåg.
He started out codriving Bernt Kollevold, who works for EVEN management, in the Norwegian Rally Championship in Kollevolds Ex Petter Solberg Celica ST205. He is currently codriving Ole Christian Veiby in the JWRC.

And now off course Jonas Andersson also is contracted by EVEN management, so this means they have several options if/when Ola Fløene decides to hang up his helmet, or other things should occur.

I think the debacle around Fløenes exit and reentry learned EVEN management a lot about the importance of having a stable of codrivers, and I dont think they want to be in the same situation again. So they have worked very professionally for this not to happen.
EVEN Management has several drivers, but Mikkelsen is whit out a doubt the most important one, so he is always prioritised if something should come up, just like he should be. So dont be surprised if it ends up with Jonas Andersson or Anders Jæger Synnevåg cording Mikkelsen in a few years.

Thanks Lundefaret. :)
I have just one question for you. How is it possible to lose motivation when you are going to be part of WRC?

[Rallyper]

That question to be held to Floene himself, dont you think?

[Simmi]

If people want to listen to it the WRC Regroup podcast is out now: http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/media/podcasts/page/114--80--.html

Malcolm Wilson confirms that Camilli has a contract with M-Sport and categorically has not paid for his drive. He has a two-year deal, with M-Sport having first option on him in 2018 too. He said they had to 'work out a solution' to get him out of his TMG contract. Whatever that means.

Wilson also said that they still haven't confirmed they'll do all 14 rounds next year.

That said Tanak is doing all 14 rounds with M-Sport support and Bertelli is doing 13 rounds. So they'll always need to send people out to events.

[Lundefaret]

Thanks Lundefaret. :)
I have just one question for you. How is it possible to lose motivation when you are going to be part of WRC?

Then I have to ask: Have You in some ways been involved in the WRC?

The reason I ask this, is that You can look at the WRC in many different ways.

The spectator- and TV-way where its all action and mud and speed.

Or from a workers perspective:
You travel constantly. Airports, planes, crazy hours.
You have very long hours - especially for codrivers.
The pay can vary.
You are under a lot of pressure.
You are measured all the time.
You go to the same places year after year.
You do countless hours off testing, where You go to a desolate place with low creature comforts, and work hours on end to search for millimeters and tenths. On and on.
And after doing this for years on end, You have in some sence seen it all.
These are some of the factors that can take motivation away from You.
If on top of that there is a varying level of confidence in You.

These factors can be turned both ways. They can either motivate You or they can demotivate You. And I think Ola got in a rut.

But then it all turned around.
Taking a "break", by codriving for Pontus Tideman. Winning the title. Seeing something different, from a driver in a different place. That really put the fire back in his eyes.
For those who know Ola they know that he is a very honest, likeable man, with very good intentions. Seeing that he got his mojo back was a positive experience.
I also think that this made Andreas see what Ola really was to him. Going trough a very bad period with Markula. Both of them seemed very happy when they where back together.

Andreas is maybe the driver in the WRC that has worked most on his pace notes, and practiced the most. But in my opinion I think that in this sense Andreas was more a robot carrying out the orders of the team, and that was - in my opinion - more quantity related than quality related. Andreas was tought the Petter Solberg-system, which Ola had a hand in developing. But he has never really "got it", and he hasn't been able to make it his own. And when this Markula thing happened, he really lost direction when coming to the pace notes - and he has not fully recovered from that.

I have written this before, but I will write it again, Andreas is maybe the fastest driver in the WRC if they all drove a stage they knew by hart, and he was on top form. And we have seen glimpses off that on rear occasions. But all tough his management has taken him from having to give up on rallying - when his fathers investment took a big hit in the finacial crisis off 2008 - to a factory seat in the WRC - and by that doing many things very, very good, they have also been responsible for Andreas loosing his ways a little when it comes to his driving.

Andreas at his very best is incredible, and the time he really was at his peak was in a Subaru Impreza Cup car, doing the Norwegian Championship, and also some other events in Sweden, where he drove just incredible.
Someone in the team will argue that a Impreza cup car is nothing like a WRC car, but thats just because they dont know what parameters one are judging from. The laws of physics are very much the same.
One reason was a lot of pressure going up against Ogier in an S2000 car. This put in a sense of stress in his driving that he has not really recovered from.
And by practising on braking late, and different things, they kind of trained away Andreas´s most extreme qualities.
If You see now, when Andreas is in a corner and have to fight for positions, he very often tries to get speed by braking late, and as a result this is very often a cause of going off.
He is also a lot more untidy then he used to be.
But then You see glimpses, like the power stage in his winning rally (wich in my mind is not a "true" win, since he was so far behind Ogier before the Power stage, but true wins will come), where he just is incredible. And he can win on all surfaces, if he has these moments.

So personally I am a little frustrated over this, because the management has taken him aaaalmoast to the very top, but they struggle to go the last few centimeters and make Andreas the Ogier-beater he really has the potential to be - and seeing quite clearly where his areas of improvement lie, well...

But all this proves how important a codriver can be. If Loeb never found Daniel Elena, he would still be a great rally driver, but maybe he wouldn't have kept going for so long, because Elena was a big part - and still is - of Loebs motivation.

[AL14]

That question to be held to Floene himself, dont you think?

Well yes of course but unfortunately I'm not his friend or neighbor ;)

BTW many thanks to Lundefaret for having shared his insights. Now I can go sleep without this mistery torturing my mind all the nights :D.
Let's go back to topic now.

[Rally Power]

That said Tanak is doing all 14 rounds with M-Sport support and Bertelli is doing 13 rounds. So they'll always need to send people out to events.

I thought that too. Still thinking Wilson is bluffing and MSport will (hopefully) do all 14 events.

On Camilli issue, it's nice to see Wilson saying loud and clear that he's not a paying driver and having such a strong faith on the French future.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

He said they had to 'work out a solution' to get him out of his TMG contract. Whatever that means.



But Camilli said that his contract with TMG had ended...

[Simmi]

But Camilli said that his contract with TMG had ended...

You can listen to it and hear for yourself.

[Jack4688`]

Maton has already said it loud and clear: he wants Neuville in 2017!

Errr, has he?

[dimviii]

Still thinking Wilson is bluffing and MSport will (hopefully) do all 14 events.
.

of course he will do all events.His clients will be there with rented cars,so his mechanics service trucks will be there.Not extra cost for him to have more cars present.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

You can listen to it and hear for yourself.

Camilli is also interviewed on the podcast, or didn't you listen to it all ?

[Simmi]

Camilli is also interviewed on the podcast, or didn't you listen to it all ?

I think maybe you need to go and listen to it again - but admittedly it's not very clear.

Camilli said his contract with TMG HAS finished (not had). And it sounds to me like he says they activated the clause to exit the contract. (Skip to 20:31 in the podcast). That's in line with what Malcolm said (why would he lie?). So I'm not really sure what point you're making?

For what it's worth Suninen said last month he expects to work with TMG again next season. But I don't know whether this was before Toyota told TMG to stop testing their WRC car - http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc-2/news/2015/november/suninen-2016/page/3015--51-51-.html

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I think maybe you need to go and listen to it again - but admittedly it's not very clear.

Camilli said his contract with TMG HAS finished (not had). And it sounds to me like he says they activated the clause to exit the contract. (Skip to 20:31 in the podcast). That's in line with what Malcolm said (why would he lie?). So I'm not really sure what point you're making?

For what it's worth Suninen said last month he expects to work with TMG again next season. But I don't know whether this was before Toyota told TMG to stop testing their WRC car - http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc-2/news/2015/november/suninen-2016/page/3015--51-51-.html

You were the one puzzling me saying 'whatever that means' re Wilson...

Sounded clear enough to me from Camilli that there was no problem with him 'leaving' TMG.

Certainly no hard feelings from their side:

Toyota Motorsport GmbH 30 November:
'Good luck to Eric Camilli, who leaves TMG to join M-Sport as a full-time WRC driver for 2016. It has been a pleasure working with you this year and we wish you a fantastic future !'

[Simmi]

No hard feelings on social media. Probably no hard feelings in real life either but they still had to 'work out a solution' to get Camilli out of his TMG deal. If the deal with TMG had already ended then there wouldn't have been any issues or anything to work out. That's all I'm saying. I don't really get why that's complicated?

What's interesting is what really is going on with TMG? What are their plans now? Do their driver contracts have anything to do with the Toyota factory? We assumed not. What do they actually get out of these development driver deals?

[AndyRAC]

So Camilli isn't bringing money. He wasn't a stand out performer in WRC2 - he has showed promise, but nothing more. He'll be in a WRCar and learning from event to event. Is he really the best candidate? We'll only find out next year.

As for Toyota, TMG, Makinen.....I think its case of wait & see. I personally think Akio Toyoda has wanted a 'hands on' role with the running/ choice of the programme; rather than leaving it to TMG in Cologne.

[Rally Power]

Errr, has he?

Yep, belgian colleagues post it some time ago: http://www.dhnet.be/sports/moteurs/matton-citroen-seul-bon-choix-pour-neuville-en-2017-563b0d363570bccfaed0ff24

[Rally Power]

I personally think Akio Toyoda has wanted a 'hands on' role with the running/ choice of the programme; rather than leaving it to TMG in Cologne.

Maybe Toyoda motivation wasn't to have a 'hans on' role, as it seems he has given Makinen even a larger freedom.

Looking at the time frame, I'm still convinced that Toyoda got totally pissed off with another TMG Le Mans failure and realized they weren't able to run both programs properly.

On TMG's drivers contracts, like Camilli case they'll probably end in a friendly way: Sarrazin continues to be LM/WEC Toy driver (and FE Venturi); Suninen is managed by Jouhky (close to Makinen) and the Japs boys (I believe there were some linked to TMG) can be absorbed by Toyota Gazoo Racing* domestic programs.

*we've got to get used to these crappy official designation (yep, no Rally on it!) as it was adopted for all Toyota motorsport activities around the world (only US Toyota Racing doesn't use Gazoo brand...maybe because in american slang it isn't a pretty word!).

[vino_93]

The two japanese weren't linked to TMG I think, but to TMR.

[skarderud]

Norwegian media writes that Ola fløene is Østbergs New co-driver?

[Sulland]

Norwegian media writes that Ola fløene is Østbergs New co-driver?

You won by 30 sec, Skarderud :-)

Did not see this one coming.
So who is Mikkelsen going to choose, is then the new question?

[SubaruNorway]

Didn't see this one coming!
Not sure if Anders Jæger is ready...? Ole Christian Veiby's co driver who they started learning a couple of years ago for Mikkelsen to use later on.

http://www.tv2.no/2015/12/06/sport/rally/7752946

[Kalm]

from Mads Facebook page : "Mads Østberg:
SISTE NYTT: OLA FLØENE BLIR MADS ØSTBERGS NYE KARTLESER!
‪#‎WRC‬ ‪#‎2SPORTEN‬ M-Sport"

interesting indeed...

[AL14]

Are you kidding me?

[EstWRC]

Ostberg just makes me sick....

[skarderud]

Wrong.

[SubaruNorway]

Ostberg just makes me sick....

Why? Apparently Ola was dumped after the season, it's not like Østberg dug down his pocket and stole him if that was what you were aiming at...?

[SubaruNorway]

Jonas Andersson is Mikkelsens new co-driver.

He was announced with Pontus a few days ago

[EstWRC]

Why the hell he tested ilka and the other dude then?

[skarderud]

Jonas Andersson is Mikkelsens new co-driver.
Sorry, Anders Jæger, veibys co-driver is probably Mikkelsens co-driver. News tomorrow.

[EstWRC]

Why? Apparently Ola was dumped after the season, it's not like Østberg dug down his pocket and stole him if that was what you were aiming at...?

When he was dumped? Didn't know that

[Mirek]

Never mind. Already answered.

[skarderud]

Ostberg just makes me sick....
? So quit then.

[skarderud]

You won by 30 sec, Skarderud :-)

Did not see this one coming.
So who is Mikkelsen going to choose, is then the new question?
No one saw this coming! Insane last days in norwegian rallying :)

[AL14]

Can some norwegian translate this? There are statements from floene and ostberg but can't properly understand them with google translate.
http://www.tv2.no/2015/12/06/sport/rally/7752946

Is it right that Mads offered Ola a long term contract and Mikkelsen didn't?

[NoName]

Ostberg just makes me sick....

Why? Andreas told Ola that he is not in the future plans..

[OnlyRally]

Why the hell he tested ilka and the other dude then?

The only ones who had time to come with one days warning

[skarderud]

Can some norwegian translate this? There are statements from floene and ostberg but can't properly understand them with google translate.
http://www.tv2.no/2015/12/06/sport/rally/7752946

Is it right that Mads offered Ola a long term contract and Mikkelsen didn't?
Yes, its seems right.

[NoName]

Can some norwegian translate this? There are statements from floene and ostberg but can't properly understand them with google translate.
http://www.tv2.no/2015/12/06/sport/rally/7752946

Is it right that Mads offered Ola a long term contract and Mikkelsen didn't?

Correct.. Mikkelsen dident see Ola in future plans.. And Ola is going to work with Mads for the next couple season.

[EightGear]

Some more strange news..

[AL14]

My godnness, after years wondering why Mikkelsen left Ola in 2013, and getting the answer by Lundefaret only two days ago now we are at it again. LOL!

[NoName]

http://www.madsostberg.no/Home/PressArticle/1043

[skarderud]

Correct.. Mikkelsen dident see Ola in future plans.. And Ola is going to work with Mads for the next couple season.
It has been a long term plan to make a co-driver of one of Mikkelsens best friends, but i hadn't thought this happens already.

But i remember Ola said after the comeback as Andreas co-driver that he was looking 3-4 years more of codriving. Maybe that was according to this plan?

[AL14]

I must say I feel a bit sorry for it. Ola and Andreas were a great couple of friends. Always smiling and having fun together.

[skarderud]

Ola's contract was expiring after 2016, but he feels he has more years in him, so then Mads gave him an offer he said yes.
Interesting her is that Jonas is in EVEN management now, Ola quit EVEN by this.

[Sulland]

And rumours tonight says Veiby Jr notereader Anders Jæger will team up with Mikkelsen in 16.

[Lundefaret]

Okay, hold Your horses :)

In the official statement from Adapta, Ola says that his contract with EVEN Management was to the end of 2016.

The situation was:
- M Østberg was without a codriver, his former was signed by EVEN Management.
- Ola Fløene had only one year left of his contract with EVEN Management.

The situation is:
- Mads Østberg hires Ola Fløene.
- Andreas Mikkelsen is whit out a codriver.

Mads has tested both Ilka Minor and Emil Axelsson, and says in his statement that both worked very good.
But what have happened behind closed doors since Jonas Andersson left for EVEN Management?
Either Ola or Mads had to make the first move to contact each other.

If Ola did it - and this is purely speculation - he could have had two main objectives:
1) Trying to prolong the contract with EVEN Management by letting them know that there was other interested parties.
2) Trying to get certainty around his own future in the WRC.

If it was the first one, and knowing the guys behind EVEN Management, this - presented in the wrong way - I would not think would be a good tactic to get a prolonged contract.
One thing is if You play with open cards and say that You are on the lookout, another thing is when You spring a surprise one someone that has invested A LOT of money and time in a project You are involved in. But we will probably never know.
The second objective is an honest one, Olas future in the WRC beyond 2016 was very uncertain, and he wants to make it more certain.

If Mads (or his team) made the first move, his main objectives could have been:
1) First the obvious one, he needs a new codriver, so to contact the only WRC codriver that speaks Norwegian is not entirely illogical, given that he also probably knew about Olas contract ending after 2016.
2) EVEN Management of course signed his codriver, so getting a codriver and "getting back" could off course have increased the motivation to choose Fløene, but I neither think or hope that this kind of factors play a part in important decisions like this.
3) Ola Fløene was the codriver for Morten Østberg for a period, and they know each other quit well, so Mads will know what he is going too, for both good and bad.

So what will happen with Mikkelsen:
There is mainly two alternatives:
1) Take on Jonas Andersson and let Pontus Tideman have Anders Jæger who most certainly was set for Andreas for the 2017 season. To prime his future codriver for one more year before he hits the big league.
2) Take on Anders Jæger, to start this long to be partnership one year early.

Well, its not an easy one. And both decisions can be good ones.
What do I think will happen?

I think Anders Jæger will be Andreas codriver from 2016.

Why? Mikkelsens WRC-career has been somewhat plagued with questions and instability around his codriver.
Anders Jæger has preformed well in the car of OC Veiby.
2016 will for Andreas be another year playing third fiddle to Ogier and Latvala, so they will have the oppertunity to use 2016 as a "practice" season.
2017 is probably the first season Mikkelsen will be in a similar - or more similar - car to Ogier and Latvala on all surfaces and in all rallies - because of the new regulations and brand new cars. So the team can have 2017 year marked as Andreas Year of a real brake trough.
If Jæger is Mikkelsens codriver from 2016, I believe this will be a very positive thing for Mikkelsen.
Spending so much time together, a good relationship is vital for motivation and results, and I think that Mikkelsen has been left some what wanting in this respect.

2016 will let us know who chose the longest straw in this ordeal.

[Mintexmemory]

Interesting insights there from Lundefaret, but from Ola's perspective there must be the hurt he felt when he was summarily dropped in favour of Markkula. A long-term contract is what he deserves and VW may regret their approach. I don't see Hyundai asking Paddon to ditch Kennard any time soon!!
My opinion is, regardless of who is his co-driver, in an equal car Mikkelsen will always be 3rd behind the Champ and JML.

[mousti]

Interesting insights there from Lundefaret, but from Ola's perspective there must be the hurt he felt when he was summarily dropped in favour of Markkula. A long-term contract is what he deserves and VW may regret their approach. I don't see Hyundai asking Paddon to ditch Kennard any time soon!!
My opinion is, regardless of who is his co-driver, in an equal car Mikkelsen will always be 3rd behind the Champ and JML.

I think you have to replace VW with Even Management..

Verstuurd vanaf mijn Nexus 5 met Tapatalk

[dupanton]

Maybe Mikkelsen will pick Emil Axelsson? Mikkelsen codriver to Ostberg, Ostberg codriver to Tidemand, so maybe Tidemand codriver to Mikkelsen??

[Rallyper]

Me too wonder where does Emil A fit in? Or has he already a codriver seat.
He could replace Ola, couldn´t he?

Even Management and VW - what a combination. Who´s fooling who?

[AL14]

Rally.it contacted Mikkelsen that explained his versione of facts.
If translate does not work ask me :) http://www.rally.it/la-girandola-co-drivers-facciamo-chiarezza-e-meno-illazioni/

Btw, it almost confirms Lundefaret's insights.

[Rallyper]

Rally.it contacted Mikkelsen that explained his versione of facts.
If translate does not work ask me :) http://www.rally.it/la-girandola-co-drivers-facciamo-chiarezza-e-meno-illazioni/

Btw, it almost confirms Lundefaret's insights.

Pls give us a short brief from what the article said.

[dimviii]

at last 2 paragraphs cant understand what he said.

[AL14]

It sums up the situation we all know and then says that they contacted Mikkelsen who answered them with this statement.

"Actually I'm not surprised that Ole changed the driver, he asked me a new contract, longer, of about 2 or 3 years, and an increase of the salary considering that from when he came back everything went better for me. I've improved my driving style, more precise and with less errors and therefore less crashes, I've reached very good results and won our first WRC event in Spain.

All this was conflicting with the programs of the company who takes care of my rally interests, the Even Management. They're training a good codriver and trying to bring him in the WRC soon, I think in 2017. Now we have two choices, or we find a free codriver for one year or we will accelerate the training of the young guy and bring him with us one year earlier, just from Rally Montecarlo 2016."

It's strange Mikkelsen answered them and none of others magazine. It didn't even use inverted commas. But this is what the article says.
At the end of the article the author backs Floene choice because he thinks he has all the rights to make such requests and that codrivers are not broiler chickens.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Of course Co-Drivers can have a choice! Why wouldn't they. They too are making a living, it's their job. If you can't get a good deal then you move on!

[dimviii]

probably Ola knew that at next year he will be without seat,when Veibys co-driver would be ready for the big league.Ostbergs situation gave him the chance for better? money and more years contract.

[AL14]

Jaeger to codrive Mikkelsen, Floene with Ostberg, Andersson with Tidemand. If Axelsson goes with Veiby we close the circle and we all can move on.

[skarderud]

Anders Jæger is Mikkelsens new co-driver.

[Sulland]

So then 1 driver is left, @ocveiby.
Who will he hire, Axelsson, or a new norwegian talent?

[dimviii]

Does Jaeger has any family relations with the management of EVEN?

[skarderud]

Does Jaeger has any family relations with the management of EVEN?
Good friend of Andreas.
He started co-driving 2 years ago, and is seen as a big talent. Has also attended at tests with Andreas.

[dimviii]

so everybody happy
Ola with better money and multi year contract
Jaeger up to the big league
Andersson under the EVEN umbrella.

[AL14]

so everybody happy
Ola with better money and multi year contract
Jaeger up to the big league
Andersson under the EVEN umbrella.

Don't know if everybody is happy. Maybe Mikkelsen and Ola would have liked to stayed together hoping for a new contract for Floene.

[dimviii]

if Ola would like to stay,he could stay.He preffered to go away,and imho he was right.
For sure EVEN is not happy.Watch how they announced Olas separation.But they hadnt got any problem when Andersson left Ostberg for a EVEN pilot few hours before Monte testing.

https://evenmanagement.no/

[N.O.T]

you all worry too much about co-drivers... they are not really that important.

[EightGear]

if Ola would like to stay,he could stay.He preffered to go away,and imho he was right.
For sure EVEN is not happy.Watch how they announced Olas separation.But they hadnt got any problem when Andersson left Ostberg for a EVEN pilot few hours before Monte testing.

https://evenmanagement.no/
Yes they started this whole saga themselves, would be interesting to know if they'd have done the same in hindsight.

[dimviii]

Erik Veiby
‏@VeibyErik

After last days codriver swops @OCVeiby needs a codriver�� Any suggestions? @EVENmanagement @JuniorWRC @OfficialWRC #2Motor @CitroenRacing

[AL14]

you all worry too much about co-drivers... they are not really that important.

24 January is far away, we need something to talk about no matter if important or not. :)

[AL14]

if Ola would like to stay,he could stay.He preffered to go away,and imho he was right.

Agree he is right but if he stayed he stayed only for 2016. So maybe he hoped for an extension of contract considering he worked well.
EVEN should not blame him for choosing a longer deal with more money with another driver. If he stayed with them he hardly would have been back in WRC.

[Rallyper]

you all worry too much about co-drivers... they are not really that important.

I must say you prove your unexperience in that quote. That´s for sure.

[Toyoda]

I must say you prove your unexperience in that quote. That´s for sure.

Im fairly sure he is being sarcastic, but then are you also...

[Munkvy]

I must say you prove your unexperience in that quote. That´s for sure.

I was just thinking the same, N.O.T showing his usual lack of experience at rallying. A co-driver is more important than your wife/husband when rallying, they are the one that keeps you alive in many ways.

[nafpaktos]

Of course co-driver is important but i suggest NOT means that a top driver can win no matter who is the co-driver, also a slow driver will be always slow no matter who is sitting next to him.Also EVEN management thinks the same with NOT when it hires such an INEXPERIENCED co-driver for Andreas.So dont blame NOT,blame EVEN management.

[N.O.T]

I was just thinking the same, N.O.T showing his usual lack of experience at rallying. A co-driver is more important than your wife/husband when rallying, they are the one that keeps you alive in many ways.

i was not referring to the work the co-driver does, but to the name... no matter who co-drives the speed is going to be the same if he is a professional.

Loeb has won rallies with his wife as a co-driver.

[rallyace]

i was not referring to the work the co-driver does, but to the name... no matter who co-drives the speed is going to be the same if he is a professional.

Loeb has won rallies with his wife as a co-driver.

Some of the essential elements of a successful driver/co-driver pair is a good relationship between the two, on and off the stages. It requires a strong bond between the two as well as complete and utter blind trust in your co-driver.

I don't think I'm wrong in my assumption that the relationship between Loeb and his wife would fit the bill regarding the description above, so to me it's no surprise that Loeb has won rallies with his wife as a co-driver.

Had he chosen a stranger (with the same co-driving skills or lack of such compared to his wife) it would certainly be up for discussion as to whether he would still have won those events or not. A good co-driver can give you an extra 5% when you need a boost the most.

[jonkka]

A good co-driver can give you an extra 5% when you need a boost the most.

I think that the saying goes like this: a co-driver won't win the event for you but he can lose it for you.

[rallyace]

I think that the saying goes like this: a co-driver won't win the event for you but he can lose it for you.

The mental state of the driver is very much dependant on his co-driver. They're together around 3/4 of the year. A co-driver will need to pick his driver up when he's down, cool him down when he's up and generally be a voice of reason in tough situations (for instance John Kennard's comments to Hayden when he encountered problems in Sardinia or Miikka Anttilla's peptalk to Jari-Matti before the power stage in Portugal).

So despite the saying might be like you mentioned it, I would consider it too simplistic and erroneous of a view to see the role of the co-driver as the person who might lose you the event. A co-driver is of utmost importance to a driver and his role shouldn't be underestimated.

[Rallyper]

The codriver is for sure essential for the driver. It´s really simplifying his role saying any topdriver would win no matter who´s codriving.
And mark my words - codriving in WRC is much harder than codriving in village events in slower cars. Going up to highest level isn´t every man is doing just like that.

[N.O.T]

codriving in WRC is much harder than codriving in village events in slower cars. Going up to highest level isn´t every man is doing just like that.

Of course..... but i can name 50 people who could win rallies with Ogier next to them but only maybe 2-3 who could win with Ingrassia next to them

[EstWRC]

http://beta.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122190/citroen-closing-on-meeke-deadline

about Meeke, Citroen and Toyota.

[PLuto]

Of course..... but i can name 50 people who could win rallies with Ogier next to them but only maybe 2-3 who could win with Ingrassia next to them

If there will be Ogier on start, there is actually only one driver, who can win with Ingrassia...

[RS]

http://beta.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122190/citroen-closing-on-meeke-deadline

about Meeke, Citroen and Toyota.

Matton didn't have any problem talking to Meeke via the media when he was criticising him..

Translation: "Kris is old, our car will be good in 2017, Toyota's maybe not"

I suppose that means Citroen offer Kris two years and Toyota three.

[stefanvv]

I suppose that means Citroen offer Kris two years

may be more like 1 and a half

[dimviii]

Jezzarallyblog: Meekanen

What a sweet irony it is that Kris Meeke, the Brit who for so long couldn’t buy a WRC drive now has two of the biggest outfits fighting over him.

Knowing Kris I doubt he’ll waste much time on such thoughts. All his faculties will be focused on which of Toyota and Citroen he can screw the best chance out of to be world champion.

Later in life, though, when he’s reflecting on it all he’ll probably spare a moment of wonder at how fast the wheel of fortune suddenly turns.

It was only a few years ago that he insisted he wasn’t about to waste his talent on one-off drives. He believed he was good enough to be in the WRC as of right. It takes iron-hard strength of mind to maintain that stance when no-one is knocking on your door.

So far his career has been all fits and starts, with more fits than starts. He was faster than Dani Sordo in the JWRC, but the more consistent Spaniard got the gig with the full (Kronos-run) Citroen team in 2006.

Then he was IRC champion in 2009. At the Autosport show before that season kicked off he told me: “I’d rather be in the IRC with Peugeot than a second-string world rally car.” But it was a victory that didn’t springboard him upwards. Then he became collateral damage in the war between Prodrive and BMW after his one year with Mini.

Now, two years at Citroen have finally shown team bosses what many of us have long thought: He can be the real deal at WRC level. As the one man who regularly mixes it with the VW Polo drivers his stock has suddenly taken off like a Eurofighter on afterburners.

But nothing comes that easy for the Ulsterman. No doubt he’d most like to be signing with VW for 2016 and it’s well known that team boss Jost Capito is an admirer. However, all seats there are booked until 2017 and at 35 Meeke can’t afford a year off: same goes at Hyundai, while M-Sport also has its drivers locked in.

All of which leaves him with a hell of a dilemma – albeit one that many would kill for. Citroen and Toyota have both realised with a start that they are short of a top-liner with no-one else available. So does Meeke stick with the French or stick his neck out and go the Japanese/Finnish route?

Toyota has the might of the world’s biggest motor corporation behind it. But it is solely fuelled by the personal enthusiasm of its president Akio Toyoda. Presidents can come and go – even those called Toyoda.

The team is also starting from scratch and some would ask whether they have a top-level designer on tap. Personally I’m still to be convinced everything is on cue. There’s been just too much fog and confusion so far.

What’s more it looks like Meeke would have to take a full year out of front-line competition. Most factory drivers today say margins are now so tight that a year off loses you that vital edge.

At Citroen it looks likely that he will get some outings in competition next year. Yves Matton has said this would be with a private team but you can bet the Chevron outfit’s big-hitters would keep a close eye on matters!

Citroen last won both WRC titles in 2012; Toyota way back in 1994. So the French and their engineers are bound to be more familiar with all the wrinkles, short cuts and no-nos of modern WRC cars. Can Tommi Makinen bring a fresh approach and build enough esprit de corps to offset that?

Without wanting to hammer on about Meeke’s age, he can’t afford to get his choice wrong. It’s his one chance of a shot at that world title.

For me, the tried and tested looks best -- provided they put an unbreakable three-year contract on the table.

Better the Frogs you know, than the team you don’t, I say. But then, I’m just a scribbler, not a world championship contender!

http://jezzarallyblog.blogspot.co.uk/

[Rally Power]

Jezzarallyblog: Meekanen
What a sweet irony it is that Kris Meeke, the Brit who for so long couldn’t buy a WRC drive now has two of the biggest outfits fighting over him.
Knowing Kris I doubt he’ll waste much time on such thoughts. All his faculties will be focused on which of Toyota and Citroen he can screw the best chance out of to be world champion.

For sure it's great to see Meeke being able to secure a WRC seat in the long terme, but honestly it's hard to believe that Citro or Toy will be Meeke's WRC winning ticket.

From his previous experience with Matton and because of Makinen's predominant profile, there're little chances to see Meeke having the "key figure status" that enabled Loeb and Ogier to lead Citroen and VW squads and become the dominant forces of WRC...

Btw, if the issue around Toyota WRC effort was Toyoda permanence as CEO, we all could be rested...the Toyoda clan is one the most important shareholders and Akio was raised to be the company leader for a long time!

[AL14]

Toyota would be a gamble for Meeke imo.
Citroen's contract could be shorter but if he performs well Citroen would extend it eventually. Citroen is not participating to 2016 in order to build a very strong car for 2017/2019. Toyota is more uncertain.
I just would ask them a bit more friendly approach and to avoid overcriticism like this year.

[GigiGalliNo1]

I'd go with Citroen, lock in 6 rounds in WRC this year, develop the 2017 car but have a contract for 3 years

[PLuto]

Then he was IRC champion in 2009. At the Autosport show before that season kicked off he told me: “I’d rather be in the IRC with Peugeot than a second-string world rally car.” But it was a victory that didn’t springboard him upwards.

I dont agree with this sentence. Winning in IRC was springboard for him to go back to WRC. Without success in IRC, he will not receive offer from Prodrive...

[dodge33cymru]

Without success in IRC (for PSA), I suspect he wouldn't have had the 208 T16 testing gig and the following invites from Citroen in 2013 either, it was probably the springboard to his subsequent WRC career.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

If Citroen dont keep Meeke, who are they going to get in 2017 ?

[pantealex]

If Citroen dont keep Meeke, who are they going to get in 2017 ?

With money everyone (except Mikkelsen)

[dodge33cymru]

With or without Meeke, I can imagine they have Neuville on their radar, although Latvala would probably become a target too.

For 2017, there are a few young guns that I'm sure they'll have an eye on too: I wouldn't expect Tidemand to have a VW seat but I'd expect him to be in a WRC class, for example.

For 2016 development role, I'd expect Hirvonen and Solberg to have some demands for their time from either Toyota or Citroen.

Issue being that Meeke is available for 2016 and a testing programme, and I'm not sure who else out there stands out as someone capable of that.

[Simmi]

Seems like the contract situation is:

Paddon (Hyundai 3 years up until end of 2018).
Mikkelsen (VW Unspecified multi-year - at least through to end of 2017)
Camilli (M-Sport 2 years up until end of 2017, M-Sport first option on him for 2018)
Lappi/Tidemand (Assumed multi-year VAG deals)

Everyone else is either a free agent (Meeke/Evans) or has their contract up at the end of 2016.

[rayh_mx]

And after the analysis, how many cars we will see lined up at every WRC rally?

[Simmi]

And after the analysis, how many cars we will see lined up at every WRC rally?

Too early to say.

Questions marks around:
Citroen/PH Sport
M-Sport (14 rounds not confirmed)
Kubica, Prokop, Breen, Al-Rajhi, second Dmack entry

I doubt any privateer will do all 14 rounds. So best case I'd say we get 9 full season entries.

[paba]

we don't know how many cars will PH Sport prepare (if any)

[MartijnS]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CV8jqldWsAA6dV-.png

[EstWRC]

at least they got the flags right :p

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Petter Solberg calls on Kris Meeke to choose Toyota...

http://www.blackmorevale.co.uk/Petter-Solberg-calls-Kris-Meeke-choose-Toyota-Jon/story-28347530-detail/story.html

[nafpaktos]

Petter please be focused in the rallycross and leave Kris to do whatever he wants.

[Lundefaret]

Kris Meeke should choose Toyota - and this is why:

I have put a lot of thought in this, because its not an easy decision, and there is lot of unknowns.

Citroën positives:
If Kris should go for short term results, Citroën would be the way to go. The 17-car will probably be one of the fastest, and I would be surprised if its not faster than the Toyota.
The team has great experience, so 2017 would be a real fight for victories for Kris.

Citroën negatives:
I feel that Citroën has never really committed to Kris. There has been some statements from the team, that must have been tough for Meeke to hear. All of them going in the direction of his place in the team being very unsure.
Even their arguments to seal Kris go in that direction. They point on his age, that he only has a couple of years left, etc. To me, that says that they see Kris as a short term solution, until they can build up younger French talent.

I am a bit surprised on how little Citroën knows about talents, and what to look for, having brought up both Loeb and Ogier.
They should now that age is not a factor.
They should know that an unexperienced driver with winning speed is easier to coach to be a champion, than an experienced driver with speed lacking.
I am a little surprised of how Citroën thinks that the car is more important than the driver. I am just puzzled.
Also, their "super-engineer" has left WRC for Formula E.

Summary: In Citroën Kris would be fighting for victories in 2017, but his future beyond 17-18 that would be uncertain. He would probably never feel total commitment from the team.


Toyota negatives:
New team, new car, unknown engineering capabilities, variable degree of experience.
New car could be a total dud (tough i doubt it).
Possibility of not driving much in 2016.

Toyota positives:
Tommi Mäkinen is one of the drivers in the world, if not THE driver in the world, with the clearest picture of what You need technically and driving wise to win the WRC. And he is a great teacher.
He also has some great visions regarding stuff like geometry (tough this could potentially lead to discussions with Kris, who is very technically gifted him self, if the ideas are to wild).
He could teach Kris "Nose End First" which is the last small adjustments Kris needs to his driving style before he is both fast AND safe.
Kris would get total commitment and trust.
I think Kris has a good 7-10 years left in the sport on top level, if he chooses to.

Summary: Toyota is a more uncertain option car and team wise, but would offer more long term commitment and a better base for driver development.

So what should he do about the driving:
The most important year Seb Ogier had when it comes to driving was in an S2000 car.
When You step "down" a class or two, and are motivated by trying to mix it with the bigger class, You really have to wring the cars neck.
Kris should do all the reccess.
And he should compete in several events in an R5 or similar, practising safe AND fast.
The events he will not compete in, he should be out on the stages, studying the lines of Ogier, and compare them with the other drivers, and his own pace notes from the recce.
For Ogier, taking a year sabbatical would be no problem. He would be just as fast, or faster, because You can really let the mind process all inputs over the last years, which You really have time to with a very busy race schedule.
For Meeke its a little bit different. He has to little experience on some of the rallies, for that to be as easy as it would have been for Ogier.

So:
- Go with Toyota
- Do all recces in 2016
- Compete in WRC events in an R5 or even in front wheel drive cars.
- Do a lot of testing with Mäkinen as a driver coach.
- Listen to Mäkinen!

[AL14]

Is there a possibility to go with Toyota and participate to WRC events with a private fiesta paid by Toyota?

[Lundefaret]

Is there a possibility to go with Toyota and participate to WRC events with a private fiesta paid by Toyota?

I would think so. So a Fiesta R5 would be a possibility.

[Sulland]

If I was in Toyoda's shoes, I would have put a new scope to the German Motorsport arm. Make a R5 of their existing Yaris project ASAP.
This was done by Ford, and has worked ok for them.

Why: Start building their database with the R5, and develop the WRCar, building it around Meeke.

[Bartek]

I would think so. So a Fiesta R5 would be a possibility.

Camilli is a good example?

[pantealex]

but their decision was Tommi will build R2 and R5 :(

I agree that maybe Germany should build that R5

meanwhile they can use "Oreca" Fabia R5

[itix]

Kris Meeke should choose Toyota - and this is why:

I have put a lot of thought in this, because its not an easy decision, and there is lot of unknowns.

Citroën positives:
If Kris should go for short term results, Citroën would be the way to go. The 17-car will probably be one of the fastest, and I would be surprised if its not faster than the Toyota.
The team has great experience, so 2017 would be a real fight for victories for Kris.

Citroën negatives:
I feel that Citroën has never really committed to Kris. There has been some statements from the team, that must have been tough for Meeke to hear. All of them going in the direction of his place in the team being very unsure.
Even their arguments to seal Kris go in that direction. They point on his age, that he only has a couple of years left, etc. To me, that says that they see Kris as a short term solution, until they can build up younger French talent.

I am a bit surprised on how little Citroën knows about talents, and what to look for, having brought up both Loeb and Ogier.
They should now that age is not a factor.
They should know that an unexperienced driver with winning speed is easier to coach to be a champion, than an experienced driver with speed lacking.
I am a little surprised of how Citroën thinks that the car is more important than the driver. I am just puzzled.
Also, their "super-engineer" has left WRC for Formula E.

Summary: In Citroën Kris would be fighting for victories in 2017, but his future beyond 17-18 that would be uncertain. He would probably never feel total commitment from the team.


Toyota negatives:
New team, new car, unknown engineering capabilities, variable degree of experience.
New car could be a total dud (tough i doubt it).
Possibility of not driving much in 2016.

Toyota positives:
Tommi Mäkinen is one of the drivers in the world, if not THE driver in the world, with the clearest picture of what You need technically and driving wise to win the WRC. And he is a great teacher.
He also has some great visions regarding stuff like geometry (tough this could potentially lead to discussions with Kris, who is very technically gifted him self, if the ideas are to wild).
He could teach Kris "Nose End First" which is the last small adjustments Kris needs to his driving style before he is both fast AND safe.
Kris would get total commitment and trust.
I think Kris has a good 7-10 years left in the sport on top level, if he chooses to.

Summary: Toyota is a more uncertain option car and team wise, but would offer more long term commitment and a better base for driver development.

So what should he do about the driving:
The most important year Seb Ogier had when it comes to driving was in an S2000 car.
When You step "down" a class or two, and are motivated by trying to mix it with the bigger class, You really have to wring the cars neck.
Kris should do all the reccess.
And he should compete in several events in an R5 or similar, practising safe AND fast.
The events he will not compete in, he should be out on the stages, studying the lines of Ogier, and compare them with the other drivers, and his own pace notes from the recce.
For Ogier, taking a year sabbatical would be no problem. He would be just as fast, or faster, because You can really let the mind process all inputs over the last years, which You really have time to with a very busy race schedule.
For Meeke its a little bit different. He has to little experience on some of the rallies, for that to be as easy as it would have been for Ogier.

So:
- Go with Toyota
- Do all recces in 2016
- Compete in WRC events in an R5 or even in front wheel drive cars.
- Do a lot of testing with Mäkinen as a driver coach.
- Listen to Mäkinen!

Great analysis (as always when it doesn't come to space frame cars hahahahaha)!

[AL14]

I would think so. So a Fiesta R5 would be a possibility.

Sorry I meant in a Fiesta WRC, not an R5. Would it be possible? I'm not an expert but maybe staying in a WRC is better than go with an r5 in order too keep the speed.

[Lundefaret]

If I was in Toyoda's shoes, I would have put a new scope to the German Motorsport arm. Make a R5 of their existing Yaris project ASAP.
This was done by Ford, and has worked ok for them.

Why: Start building their database with the R5, and develop the WRCar, building it around Meeke.

Thats a very good idea. TMR/Gazoo could buy that service from TMG.

[Lundefaret]

Great analysis (as always when it doesn't come to space frame cars hahahahaha)!

Hehe, thanks. But don't forget that the coolest modern rally car competing anywhere in the world right now is a New Zealand space frame build �� and this actual car should be used as an object for study as to how wrc could reach some hefty price, performance and sensory targets ��

[Lundefaret]

Sorry I meant in a Fiesta WRC, not an R5. Would it be possible? I'm not an expert but maybe staying in a WRC is better than go with an r5 in order too keep the speed.

Kris in a Fiesta WRC would fight for victories, and I don't think Toyota would like Kris to be on top of the wrc podium after driving a Ford. Dont know if Malcolm would have liked it either. A privateer being faster than the factory guys would maybe look a little strange.

Sullands Toyota R5 idea is probably the best one, if feasable.

Either way, this is Kris last chance to compete in a lower class - something that can be very helpful, from a driving technique stand point, and he should take it.

[Lundefaret]

Camilli is a good example?

Absolutely, and BTW Camilli will be very good. He has higher potential than Evans, and is possibly a future star. If its correct that no one is paying for him I must say that Malcolm has surprised me positively. He has been the most important talent scout in the WRC, and i think Camilli could be a gift for his efforts.

[Rallyper]

Absolutely, and BTW Camilli will be very good. He has higher potential than Evans, and is possibly a future star. If its correct that no one is paying for him I must say that Malcolm has surprised me positively. He has been the most important talent scout in the WRC, and i think Camilli could be a gift for his efforts.

Let´s wait and see. He has a lot to proof. Nothing much seen yet.

[Lundefaret]

Let´s wait and see. He has a lot to proof. Nothing much seen yet.

Not so strange when You consider how few events he has entered ;)

[Rallyper]

Not so strange when You consider how few events he has entered ;)

Absolutely and that´s the dodgy thing, don´t you think?

[Lundefaret]

Absolutely and that´s the dodgy thing, don´t you think?

The secrets of Loeb and Ogier wasn't: how many events they entered before they got their first victory, but how few.
It wasn't how Young they where, bit how old.
It wasn't how much motorsport experience they had - but how little.
It wasn't how many different classes and genres inside motorsport they had tested, but how few.
It wasn't how much money they had to start with, but how little.

And still the talent scouts continue to search for Young drivers that started karting at 9 months old, and think 13 years is old to be a driver in motorsport.
Strange.

[Rallyper]

The secrets of Loeb and Ogier wasn't: how many events they entered before they got their first victory, but how few.
It wasn't how Young they where, bit how old.
It wasn't how much motorsport experience they had - but how little.
It wasn't how many different classes and genres inside motorsport they had tested, but how few.
It wasn't how much money they had to start with, but how little.

And still the talent scouts continue to search for Young drivers that started karting at 9 months old, and think 13 years is old to be a driver in motorsport.
Strange.

So the secret of Loeb and Ogier was:

They started only a few events (Well maybe, but won cups)
They were not teenagers, Loeb 24, Ogier 23 when starting winning (Note)
They were only experienced in rallying (Good)
They didn´t bring money (other competence more counted)

So what talent scouts really shouldn´t look at is:
Too young driver
Didn´t win a thing
Has a lot of money
Driving other motorsports

Test and check on for example the one MW choosed and see if it firs in then. For me the Ogier and Loeb test fits on Bergkvist ways before anyone else.

[Lundefaret]

So the secret of Loeb and Ogier was:

They started only a few events (Well maybe, but won cups)
They were not teenagers, Loeb 24, Ogier 23 when starting winning (Note)
They were only experienced in rallying (Good)
They didn´t bring money (other competence more counted)

So what talent scouts really shouldn´t look at is:
Too young driver
Didn´t win a thing
Has a lot of money
Driving other motorsports

Test and check on for example the one MW choosed and see if it firs in then. For me the Ogier and Loeb test fits on Bergkvist ways before anyone else.

Dont forget that both Ogier, Loeb and Camilli won the Auto Jeunes talent competition :)

Emil Bergkvist is a very interesting driver. He is fast, and seems to have a professional approach. His winning both the Adam Cup (especially impressive since it was hard opposition, and mixed surfaces), and his winnings in the Adam R2 is very impressive.
I really hope he is on the road to somewhere.

Another very interesting Swedish young gun is Pelle Wilén. He is very fast, and EXTREMLY passionate, and has great charisma. Thats a type of driver the WRC sorely needs :)

[Rally Power]

No doubt Camilli's going places, but his learning curve still far from the top. We should be careful with over expectations about his first MC with a WRC car (and 2nd ever MC outing) and wait till the end of the season to make a fair judgement. Best luck to him!

[PLuto]

I think in Monte he should be quite good, especially if there will be not so much snow/ice. He is familiar with french tarmac roads. I am more curious to see his performance on different surfaces.

[tommeke_B]

+1. His Monte should be quite good, I'd even say no matter what the conditions are. He's from Nice, he should know the rally very well, even with little experience as a driver, and his driving looks smart enough to do a great Monte. A year ago I described his style as "Loeb-ish" (I think it was in the young drivers thread), I'm sure it still applies to him. It will be a very interesting driver to follow, very interesting career-path so far. Who knows how much kms he has tested with the Yaris WRC? :)

[dimviii]

Who knows how much kms he has tested with the Yaris WRC? :)

thousands i read before some days,but cant remeber where.

[dodge33cymru]

Good point on that, had completely forgotten - thanks for the reminder that he could well have a fair amount of experience with the TMG car.

[EstWRC]

2000 Kms, so he isn't that new to WRC car. I'm also interested how he will do on snow and gravel. Wouldn't be surprised if he is good on Tarmac.

[AL14]

The fact with Camilli is this.
Malcom Wilson had not the results he wanted from his young drivers. Evans didn't improve in speed the year when he should most, and Tanak showed sparks of it but finished as the last of the manufacturers drivers due to his inconstistency in both of staying in the road and in speed.

He had three options (I will list them in real Lundefaret style):
I will not consider only easy money as a variable. If Fiesta don't get real results he will sell less of them so he has to bring home podiums and stage wins.

1) give those guys another chance after two years. Was it worth it? I don't think so. If the outcome is almost the same after 2 full years something went wrong and in the third year it will not change too much. The only exception could be made for Tanak and in fact he will contest all rounds but in the DMACK Fiesta with tires he already knows and with a team wthat does not put as much as pressure.

2) Take one of the two drivers. The same goes for this option. Tanak will have his chances with DMACK, Evans would likely be a loss of time.

3) Get rid of them and try again with another young gun. Consider you already have an experienced, consistent and podium-winner driver that will assure you some more performance troughout the year. Now you have to choose the young boy (and with young I don't mean age which does not count that much in rally but experience, that count very much).
Let's make a list of them:

- Tidemand: VAG boy with a contract. Impossible to bring in.
- Lappi: same here.
- Lefebvre: Citroen boy. Impossible to bring in.
- Kubica: not actually a young gun, but he could have been an option. I won't write too much about him otherwise we will talk only of it. But well, Kubica is discarded from the list.
- Breen: it could have been an option but his outings with WRCs were not the most performing, he had a very unlucky season in 2014. I think that judging from his codriver tweet the morning after Camilli was announced he has been considered.
- Camilli: and only one remained. Our french guy won rallye de jeunes and despite his long break and few outings, he showed potential. Of course he did not win anything etc... But he was the only reasonable prospect of the only reasonable option that Wilson had at the end of the season.

[XXX]

What about Brynildsen?
45 WRC races, and the only guy who challenged Tidemand and Lappi in Finland with Dmack tyres.
And in Sweden he was quicker than Tidemand, also with dmack tyres.

[Mirek]

Brynildsen has been around for many years and it seems to me that he likely already reached his top. We can hardly find some improvement of his results from what was four or five years a go. He isn't bad but I doubt he has any potential to further growth of performance.

[tommeke_B]

What about Brynildsen?
45 WRC races, and the only guy who challenged Tidemand and Lappi in Finland with Dmack tyres.
And in Sweden he was quicker than Tidemand, also with dmack tyres.

How about Southern gravel rallies and tarmac rallies? WRC is much more than the 2 Nordic events, in which he is great. Also in Wales he should do well I think. Brynildsen is a very nice driver to see, providing a lot of spectacle, but I think his brutal driving style doesn't help him much on more technical events.

[XXX]

He won RACC rally a couple of years ago. And in GB he won the Great Orm stage on tarmac with poor brakes, over 4 seconds quicker than Breen.

[Mirek]

No sure if You are serious. He won class N4 in RACC in 2009 when he was the only driver with the S2000 car on start. Others were with ordinary gr.N cars.

When I look in his statistics he has never win a single event of SWRC/WRC2 while he has been competing for 6 years. His only victory in Wales 2009 was spoiled by a disqualification which wasn't his fault but anyway it was already 6 years a go. Unfortunately there has been no visible progress through the years.

[Lundefaret]

No sure if You are serious. He won class N4 in RACC in 2009 when he was the only driver with the S2000 car on start. Others were with ordinary gr.N cars.

When I look in his statistics he has never win a single event of SWRC/WRC2 while he has been competing for 6 years. His only victory in Wales 2009 was spoiled by a disqualification which wasn't his fault but anyway it was already 6 years a go. Unfortunately there has been no visible progress through the years.

Brynhildsen is a driver with huge potential, but a lack of funds, and a too aggressive (puncture inducing) driving style has set him back. He is naturally quick, and by far the fastest driver in the Norwegian rally championship at the moment. But he has gone in the same trap as many other drivers, thinking that You can do WRC rallies with either Your own team, or a lack of funds, or a combination of both.
For him to be truly great he needs a solid team and a solid economic platform, and he needs to adjust his driving style a little. Cutting etc like he does is okay in a national championship event with short stages, and few km overall, and where You almost know every bump and rock, but in a WRC event its a no go.

We see the same with Lappi. I let EVEN Management know about Lappis challenges when it comes to driving technique, and warned them before 2015 that he was going to have several offs, but they chose not to listen. I am sorry to say I was right.
Lappi is also a very fast driver, but he needs to adjust his driving if he is going to be a WRC contender.
To fight for victories on tough and rough events with stiff competition over 300km+ is completely different to doing it in ERC or national events.
There are a lot of Young talents in this same position: Tideman, Lappi, Brynhildsen, Abbring etc.
Loeb finished rallies, one needs to remember that :)

[Lundefaret]

The fact with Camilli is this.
Malcom Wilson had not the results he wanted from his young drivers. Evans didn't improve in speed the year when he should most, and Tanak showed sparks of it but finished as the last of the manufacturers drivers due to his inconstistency in both of staying in the road and in speed.

He had three options (I will list them in real Lundefaret style):
I will not consider only easy money as a variable. If Fiesta don't get real results he will sell less of them so he has to bring home podiums and stage wins.

1) give those guys another chance after two years. Was it worth it? I don't think so. If the outcome is almost the same after 2 full years something went wrong and in the third year it will not change too much. The only exception could be made for Tanak and in fact he will contest all rounds but in the DMACK Fiesta with tires he already knows and with a team wthat does not put as much as pressure.

2) Take one of the two drivers. The same goes for this option. Tanak will have his chances with DMACK, Evans would likely be a loss of time.

3) Get rid of them and try again with another young gun. Consider you already have an experienced, consistent and podium-winner driver that will assure you some more performance troughout the year. Now you have to choose the young boy (and with young I don't mean age which does not count that much in rally but experience, that count very much).
Let's make a list of them:

- Tidemand: VAG boy with a contract. Impossible to bring in.
- Lappi: same here.
- Lefebvre: Citroen boy. Impossible to bring in.
- Kubica: not actually a young gun, but he could have been an option. I won't write too much about him otherwise we will talk only of it. But well, Kubica is discarded from the list.
- Breen: it could have been an option but his outings with WRCs were not the most performing, he had a very unlucky season in 2014. I think that judging from his codriver tweet the morning after Camilli was announced he has been considered.
- Camilli: and only one remained. Our french guy won rallye de jeunes and despite his long break and few outings, he showed potential. Of course he did not win anything etc... But he was the only reasonable prospect of the only reasonable option that Wilson had at the end of the season.

I think You are right on the money AL14.

[rp]

What about Brynildsen?
45 WRC races, and the only guy who challenged Tidemand and Lappi in Finland with Dmack tyres.
And in Sweden he was quicker than Tidemand, also with dmack tyres.

The only one...? Nikara was 2nd in WRC 2 after SS 6 and also ahead of Tidemand...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Meeke news is out tomorrow according to Motorsport News' David Evans...

[paba]

https://twitter.com/F_Gustavsson

"Citroen or Toyota? I might be wrong,but my feeling is that Citroen will be more ready to fight for wins/titles from the word go in 2017 #WRC"

he has just deleted this entry

[EstWRC]

Dropped by Citroen and picked up by Dmack to partner Tänak...

[AL14]

I think You are right on the money AL14.

Only because I have used the lists, right? ;)

[Simmi]

https://twitter.com/F_Gustavsson

"Citroen or Toyota? I might be wrong,but my feeling is that Citroen will be more ready to fight for wins/titles from the word go in 2017 #WRC"

he has just deleted this entry

He's just a Citroen superfan I don't think he has any actual insight into the team. He's just saying what I think the majority of people are thinking.

[paba]

Yeah now I see, I thought he was involved in Citroen's PR

[AndyRAC]

If it is Toyota, then things are looking better for that programme than currently seem. Still think it will be Citroen....but won't be shocked if it isn't.