2016 Silly Season

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I would not bee too surprised if we see craig breen in a wrc car next year..just my taughts

Grabbed a quick chat with Craig at Rally GB and his was extremely cautious about 2016 and didnt seem to have anything definite decided. I would be very surprised if he does more than a couple of rounds in a WRC car...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Kubica wants to carry on ... http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/november/kubica-worst-time-to-stop/page/3011--12-12-.html

[Simmi]

Grabbed a quick chat with Craig at Rally GB and his was extremely cautious about 2016 and didnt seem to have anything definite decided. I would be very surprised if he does more than a couple of rounds in a WRC car...

Someone I know spoke to him and got a bit more of a confident answer. Sounds like he's got something sorted. Fingers crossed for him.

[Simmi]

https://twitter.com/MattJelonek/status/667698104095805441 source is not' confirmed, I don't know who he is but my friend sent me this tweet

I'm pretty sure he posts on here as GigiGalliNo1

[MartijnS]

Indeed.

[Lord_Shaitan]

https://twitter.com/MattJelonek/status/667698104095805441 source is not' confirmed, I don't know who he is but my friend sent me this tweet

BS if you ask me. I think there's no way Robert's future has already been sorted. A pure speculation and wishful thinking.

[macebig]

Maybe a WTCC program with SLR and a few WRC events with PH Sport is a good 2016 for Kubica.

[AL14]

It seems Kubica really don't want to go back to circuit. Rally has fully won him over. I think he love it and knows that the feelings he has in a wrc car through forests and roads he will not live anymore if he goes back to circles.
It is really a pity to lose him, he should have approached WRC in a different way and I'm sure that now he would have had an easy seat considering that team principals are hungry for new drivers except Capito.

[thuGG]

It is really a pity to lose him

And who says we lost him? I think he will be back.

[Simmi]

Honestly the more I think about it if I was Malcolm Wilson I'd try and get Kubica under that M-Sport awning again. He has been the best advert for the raw pace of that car and he's doing it with shonky set-ups, broken wheel rims, radged diffs, Pirellis and the stress of running his own team.

If you could iron out all those creases and build a bit of structure back in I think Kubica could at least rack up as many points as Tanak this year. He'll crash but he'll start to crash less. M-Sport have just spent three years developing a driver in Evans for precious little return. Kubica actually has pace, and his ceiling is so much higher than Tanak's.

Kubica and Ostberg could be a nice team next year I think. Doubt it will happen but I'd certainly consider it - especially if you could get at least some funds from those two and potentially Bertelli.

[dimviii]

Pirellis .

they are not good?

[Simmi]

they are not good?

Not sure - you tell me? Point is they aren't the best tyres.

[AL14]

Honestly the more I think about it if I was Malcolm Wilson I'd try and get Kubica under that M-Sport awning again. He has been the best advert for the raw pace of that car and he's doing it with shonky set-ups, broken wheel rims, radged diffs, Pirellis and the stress of running his own team.

If you could iron out all those creases and build a bit of structure back in I think Kubica could at least rack up as many points as Tanak this year. He'll crash but he'll start to crash less. M-Sport have just spent three years developing a driver in Evans for precious little return. Kubica actually has pace, and his ceiling is so much higher than Tanak's.

Kubica and Ostberg could be a nice team next year I think. Doubt it will happen but I'd certainly consider it - especially if you could get at least some funds from those two and potentially Bertelli.
It is just my speculation due to some not solid rumors i heard. But Kubica seems to be not an easy driver to deal with. He was with M-Sport in 2014 and some say that he wanted all the control, was impossible to work with him and he was very "stubborn". That is also why he went alone with a-style and then with his own team. He also had arguments with Citroen back in 2013.

The fact is that if he want to be a manufacturer driver he should get orders and not give them, even if he thinks they are stupid.
He should listen to suggestions, one of which should be he can't drive over limit every km and build his pace with patience. Forcing learning curve did not brought him anywhere.

But I repeat it is nothing solid.

[Bartek]

According to omnicorse.it Robert is preparing his Fiesta to Monte Carlo :) I hope he will change Pirellis for a Michelin this year

[EstWRC]

for me it seems that on tarmac and on muddy/wet gravel the pirellis are as good as michelins or even better.

[dimviii]

Not sure - you tell me? Point is they aren't the best tyres.

there is no ''best tyre''
Pirellis at some areas are better from michelins,as michelins are better in other areas/circumstances.

[dimviii]

for me it seems that on tarmac and on muddy/wet gravel the pirellis are as good as michelins or even better.

+1

at Acropolis all drivers were trying to find pirellis.The problem was that they were to little for all.

[PLuto]

ERC tyres are actually better from Pirelli than Michelin...

[tommeke_B]

There's a (some say big) difference between ERC-compound and WRC-compound for the Michelin tyres, they are not the same... ;)

[dimviii]

There's a (some say big) difference between ERC-compound and WRC-compound for the Michelin tyres, they are not the same... ;)

yes they are different.This year Pirellis were far better than Michelins at erc.
I had a conversation with Lukyanuk and Kajto at Acropolis,about why everybody at erc choosed pirellis this year, and confirmed it.
Dont underestimate Italians about tyre technology.Plenty of times we have seen them at previous years to have better tyres from Michelins even at wrc level.

[PLuto]

In WRC it is quite different, you cannot choose from more compounds, tyres must be more universal and must survive more kms...

[dimviii]

In WRC it is quite different, you cannot choose from more compounds, tyres must be more universal and must survive more kms...

thats not difficult for them when there is no competition and everybody uses the same tyre.
The difficult is to create a competetive tyre when there are more than one tyre suppliers.
And as we saw this year thats not a problem for Pirelli ,even if they were absent at wrc/erc as they were focused at f1 circus.
Pirelli we have to mention that is about 4 times smaller company from Michelin(according to sales 26 bn vs 7,5 bn )
Not bad..

[PLuto]

Michelin was sleeping last years as they were dominating. They were also pushing for unique tyres for ERC, they were only one ready at the beginning, but now they were overpassed...

[EstWRC]

https://twitter.com/WorldofRally/status/668035969413742593

[macebig]

I wouldnt bet at that but if Ostberg hasnt sign with Wilson the only place that could be opened is Neuville's seat at Hyundai.

[bluuford]

https://twitter.com/WorldofRally/status/668035969413742593
If you think out of the box, then why not PH Sport Citroen? That is a new team for him:-) M-Sport sounds like going back, not new ;-)
Final option is Toyota, a new team + maybe some rallies with rented M-Sport cars like they have done so-far. Sooner or later they must find some drivers for them, I mean real drivers not just juniors.

[EstWRC]

You may be right. The sentence "new team " is very interesting there. Like you said m-sport isn't new for him.

[AMSS]

thats not difficult for them when there is no competition and everybody uses the same tyre.
The difficult is to create a competetive tyre when there are more than one tyre suppliers.
And as we saw this year thats not a problem for Pirelli ,even if they were absent at wrc/erc as they were focused at f1 circus.
Pirelli we have to mention that is about 4 times smaller company from Michelin(according to sales 26 bn vs 7,5 bn )
Not bad..
That's exactly were Pirelli proved they're behind. Their tyre is fast I admit but only on a limited distance. This was clear on every rally, beginning of loops Kubica was fast but towards the end he lost time almost always. Or had punctures or had massive tyre wear. Same thing with all wrc cars on Pirellis. This was openly admitted from as well Kubica as Prokop. Also Nasser confirmed he made a mistake when changing to pirellis for one rally based on a short test. In Poland Michelin brought a specific tyre for wrc2 and were again setting the pace. So still some catching up to do in my opinion but it's good that there's competition even there!

[Rally Power]

Pirelli we have to mention that is about 4 times smaller company from Michelin(according to sales 26 bn vs 7,5 bn )
Not bad..

Btw, Pirelli was bought during the year by a chinese company. No funding problems ahead, but a chinese logo can appear one of this days on the italian tyres...

[Mirek]

That's not going to happen in forseenable future. Pirelli is a well respected brand and the Chinese bought it as such. They don't need to downgrade the brand by renaming it to some Chinese noname. The Chinese are anything but stupid.

[Rally Power]

For sure they aren't stupid, but it can't be seen as stupid to use motorsport and Pirelli know-how to promote a new (chinese) make.

[Mirek]

Well, that's exactly the DMack story :) Afaik Dick Cormack and his "gang" are former Pirelli managers who started new Chinese brand and promoted it through the WRC campaign using their Pirelli know-how.

[Rally Power]

Not quite the same, as DMack is a niche tyre company focused in motorsport and the Pirelli chinese owners will probably fight for the global market, using Pirelli motorsport and premium ranges as a lever.

[Mirek]

I thought the main market of DMack was utility and heavy duty tyres on Chinese market and that the motorsport is just a marketing tool for them.

[Rally Power]

I thought the main market of DMack was utility and heavy duty tyres on Chinese market and that the motorsport is just a marketing tool for them.

You're right, even if their road and industrial tyre share will always be residual. But in motorsport they're doing a great job, with an amazing growing pace. Good for them and rally costumers worldwide!

[dimviii]

That's exactly were Pirelli proved they're behind. Their tyre is fast I admit but only on a limited distance. This was clear on every rally, beginning of loops Kubica was fast but towards the end he lost time almost always. Or had punctures or had massive tyre wear. Same thing with all wrc cars on Pirellis. This was openly admitted from as well Kubica as Prokop. Also Nasser confirmed he made a mistake when changing to pirellis for one rally based on a short test. In Poland Michelin brought a specific tyre for wrc2 and were again setting the pace. So still some catching up to do in my opinion but it's good that there's competition even there!

you cant compare pirellis with Kubica-Prokop and fiestas,against Ogier with polo and michelins and have a safe conclusion.
somebody else can say that Kubica with private fiesta was plenty of times faster than works fiestas with michelins.
Pirelli at some terrains/surfaces are better.And these are measured with same car/driver.These tests were at asphalt and gravel.Its not something new,its something that happens for years.Some years depenting from tyre evolutions,michelins were overall better,some years were pirelli overall better.
Except these tests there are also real world examples from gravel and asphalt worldwide.

[Rallyper]

How come RK can´t listen to teamboss? He must have done it in F1, right? So adapting and being tactic is next step for him.

[paba]

He must have listened but being a perfectionist he can be difficult to work with
Like Willy Rampf told in latest interview about Robert - he needs to have precisely defined task.

I think in 2016 he will work in close cooperation with M-Sport

[EstWRC]

Tomorrow there will be an article with Wilson in one of the leading Estonian newspaper but there's something revealed already today and he says that Tänak and Evans definitely won't share a car. He says that he hasn't said anything like that at all and it's made up. He also says that he can't comment the Bertelli thing. Tomorrow I will see the full article.

[AL14]

Tomorrow there will be an article with Wilson in one of the leading Estonian newspaper but there's something revealed already today and he says that Tänak and Evans definitely won't share a car. He says that he hasn't said anything like that at all and it's made up. He also says that he can't comment the Bertelli thing. Tomorrow I will see the full article.

Thank god they won't share the car. It's useless both for them and M-Sport. After two years each it's time to take a decision. Or you take all the two, or just one or try again with some other young gun hoping for a better outcome in the future.

[Rallyper]

Kubica getting ready for RMC 2016. Not continuing is a waste of earlier seasons, he says.

http://www.emotorsport.se/nyheter.php?in=2&nyhets_id=11427

[AMSS]

you cant compare pirellis with Kubica-Prokop and fiestas,against Ogier with polo and michelins and have a safe conclusion.
somebody else can say that Kubica with private fiesta was plenty of times faster than works fiestas with michelins.
Pirelli at some terrains/surfaces are better.And these are measured with same car/driver.These tests were at asphalt and gravel.Its not something new,its something that happens for years.Some years depenting from tyre evolutions,michelins were overall better,some years were pirelli overall better.
Except these tests there are also real world examples from gravel and asphalt worldwide.

You are not reading what I wrote, the problem with Pirellis is not pure speed but more consistency, as I said they are fast over a short test probably on any surface (especially wet gravel, and Snow but also tarmac) the problem is the performance drops rapidly compared to Michelin. If you don`t believe me ask the drivers mentioned!! And I wasn`t comparing to Ogier I was making an overall comparison! But this is not the thread to discuss this.

[EstWRC]

Abbring http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/november/abbring-2016/page/3014--12-12-.html


but what a boring monday, was hoping to see some news from Ostberg or M-sport or both.

[Simmi]

A few vague details on Abbring's programme for 2016. Looks like he'll be lucky to get 2-3 rounds.

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/november/abbring-2016/page/3014--12-12-.html

Reading between the lines it looks like the ERC could be in for a nice boost.

[dimviii]

You are not reading what I wrote, the problem with Pirellis is not pure speed but more consistency, as I said they are fast over a short test probably on any surface (especially wet gravel, and Snow but also tarmac) the problem is the performance drops rapidly compared to Michelin.

that was happening before 3-4 years,not now,and only at very abbrasive tarmac.
About erc tyres we have measure them and there is not a problem such this.And they are tested at extremely hot asphalt/gravel surfaces.


If you don`t believe me ask the drivers mentioned!!
Lately i ve talked about this with Kajto and Lukyanuk,and there is not a problem like that.The opposite told me.


And I wasn`t comparing to Ogier I was making an overall comparison! But this is not the thread to discuss this.

overall comparison works cars/drivers with Prokop and Kubica.I told you that you cant compare for many reasons that i am sure you know about.

[AMSS]

that was happening before 3-4 years,not now,and only at very abbrasive tarmac.
About erc tyres we have measure them and there is not a problem such this.And they are tested at extremely hot asphalt/gravel surfaces.


Lately i ve talked about this with Kajto and Lukyanuk,and there is not a problem like that.The opposite told me.



overall comparison works cars/drivers with Prokop and Kubica.I told you that you cant compare for many reasons that i am sure you know about.

I am talking about WRC tires and everybody who follows the results can see this, as well as listening to interviews!

[dimviii]

I am talking about WRC tires and everybody who follows the results can see this, as well as listening to interviews!

yes keep comparing Prokop Kubica and private fiestas with works cars/crews and analyze the results.
Very usefull about which tyre is faster.

[AMSS]

yes keep comparing Prokop Kubica and private fiestas with works cars/crews and analyze the results.
Very usefull about which tyre is faster.

You can analyse the difference compared to the fastest and make conclusions regardless of driver. You can do this with the slowest dmack fiesta if you want, and see where they loose/gain time compared to the fastest. If the loose 1min/ stage or 1sec doesn't matter.
For example if a driver looses 1 sec/k on the first 2stages on a 4 stage loop and then for instance loose 4 sec/k on the other 2 than something is happening don't you agree?

[Mirek]

I can't comment WRC but in ERC Pirelli didn't suffer with fading of performance at all. Drivers in ERC mostly say that Pirelli had the upper hand this year and also here in CZ some changed from Michelin to Pirelli including the fastest local privateer Pech (and I'm sure that he changed due to better performance of Pirelli not due to price or something else).

[dimviii]

You can analyse the difference compared to the fastest and make conclusions regardless of driver. You can do this with the slowest dmack fiesta if you want, and see where they loose/gain time compared to the fastest. If the loose 1min/ stage or 1sec doesn't matter.
For example if a driver looses 1 sec/k on the first 2stages on a 4 stage loop and then for instance loose 4 sec/k on the other 2 than something is happening don't you agree?

no you cant compare and make conclusions with the slowest dmack fiesta.You cant analyse results with drivers like Prokop and Kubica when at stage 3 is 3rd faster and at next stage is 8th without problem,and at next stage is 0,3 sec behind Ogier.You cant have safe conclusions with such a driver.
An indication could be in a long asphalt for example stage without technical/setup problems to compare Kubica Evans and Tanak to see if pirellis loose their pace after 10-20 kms compared with michelins.Safer is to do that with many stages,and different rallies.

[AMSS]

Yes Mirek that seems to be the case in the ERC for some reason unknown to me Michelin won't nominate the lightest tire they have(Pirelli is ~2kg lighter I've heard) and already there is a big difference in performance.
Dimwii since you seem to know better than the teams actually using Pirelli I got this information from(indirectly) than by all means let them know they are wrong��

[tommeke_B]

Are we sure "the Michelin" for a privateer is the same Michelin as a works team gets? We can even wonder if the Michelins VW gets are the same as M-Sport or Hyundai for example. On paper all tyres should be same, but it seems like the tyres are held apart already before arrival on a wrc event, and we've see plenty of michelin trucks/people on footage of WRC tests... Michelin has it's own development project with a lot of testing on every surface. It would be strange to see Michelin attend so many tests of different WRC teams when all have to use the same tyre and nothing can be modified after manufacturing (even cutting isn't allowed), but maybe I'm missing something... :)

[AMSS]

Are we sure "the Michelin" for a privateer is the same Michelin as a works team gets? We can even wonder if the Michelins VW gets are the same as M-Sport or Hyundai for example. On paper all tyres should be same, but it seems like the tyres are held apart already before arrival on a wrc event, and we've see plenty of michelin trucks/people on footage of WRC tests... Michelin has it's own development project with a lot of testing on every surface. It would be strange to see Michelin attend so many tests of different WRC teams when all have to use the same tyre and nothing can be modified after manufacturing (even cutting isn't allowed), but maybe I'm missing something... :)

All WRC tires are given to teams as lottery controlled by FIA they can't choose themselves which pile they take.... same for all brands, Dmack, Pirelli, Michelin and Hankook

[dimviii]

Yes Mirek that seems to be the case in the ERC for some reason unknown to me Michelin won't nominate the lightest tire they have(Pirelli is ~2kg lighter I've heard) and already there is a big difference in performance.
its not unknown the reason,they just cant have average reliability with 2 kg less weight.Pirelli can.

Dimwii since you seem to know better than the teams actually using Pirelli I got this information from(indirectly) than by all means let them know they are wrong��

yes they are wrong.
Catalunya ss11 26,26km
Kubica 14,36
Ogier 14,32
splits for ss11
http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/results/spain/split-times/page/407-237---.html

at this point of rally Ogier had 11 sec difference from Latvala,so they were pushing.
Private fiesta against works polo,Ogier vs Kubica.
private fiesta with pirellis faster than works fiestas with michelins.
I cant see that pirelli looses their performance after some km.

really cant understand why you underestimate Pirellis.They are innovative,have huge history at motorsport tyres,and plenty of times had better tyres,from giant tyre makers.For 20 years michelin cant make a faster tyre at wet asphalt.Pirelli always had.
or the XR type for very raw gravel.Really bulletproof tyre.
D type for circuits faster by far.At road tyres with dot trofeo R the faster tyre you can buy.
Plenty of examples mate.

[dimviii]

Are we sure "the Michelin" for a privateer is the same Michelin as a works team gets? We can even wonder if the Michelins VW gets are the same as M-Sport or Hyundai for example. On paper all tyres should be same, but it seems like the tyres are held apart already before arrival on a wrc event, and we've see plenty of michelin trucks/people on footage of WRC tests... Michelin has it's own development project with a lot of testing on every surface. It would be strange to see Michelin attend so many tests of different WRC teams when all have to use the same tyre and nothing can be modified after manufacturing (even cutting isn't allowed), but maybe I'm missing something... :)

as AMSS wrote they get them by lottery.
At gr A era yes they had build specific tyres for a team.

[AMSS]

But please Dimvii contact Prokop, Kubica and Bertellis teams and tell them they are wrong than, and dig up Kubicas after stage interview from Poland where he openly admitted what I've been trying to say.
Also they had problems this year with several tyres coming off the rims for no apparent reason didn't they?
In NORF in the service area it was very close that all Pirelli drivers would be prohibited from entering since the tyres exploded when fitting on the rims at about 8 bars call the FIA and ask if you don't believe me!
I agree that Pirelli is a fast tyre but that is as consistent as Michelin I do not.

[tommeke_B]

@AMSS, @dimviii, you are right with the lottery. So officially it's not possible to have a different compound if everything is done right.

@AMSS, the 8bars is bullshit. That's the maximum (not minimum) pressure FIA allows for getting the tyre to "pop" on the rims. The pressure used to be higher. For tarmac tyres I know some drivers are actually complaining that the sides of the tyres can't be made as strong anymore, so the tyre is "living" much more in the corners. Maybe you didn't hear right, and the Pirelli's didn't "pop" on the wheels at 8 bar, that could be possible. ;)

[AMSS]

Yes you are of course right it's 8bars maximum. I wasn't next to the gauge so couldn't see at what pressure the tyres actually exploded at but it was before they popped on the rim, bu the explosions were so severe that it broke the mandatory pressure cage they were in. And I can tell you it made a massive sound!!

[EstWRC]

isnt this tire story out of topic?

[dimviii]

But please Dimvii contact Prokop, Kubica and Bertellis teams and tell them they are wrong than, and dig up Kubicas after stage interview from Poland where he openly admitted what I've been trying to say.

Bertelli and Prokop there is no reason to talk,there are not going to use any tyre at its maximum,so i really dont care what are they saying at 2-3sec per kn slower everywhere all over the world.
Lets go to Robert at Poland.
ss 7 39,12 km
Kubica 9 sec slower from Ogier and 7,8 from Latvala when the difference between Ogier and Latvala is 9,5 sec after 7 stages.
http://www.ewrc-results.com/results.php?e=19125&s=82178&t=Lotos-Rally-Poland-Rajd-Polski-2015

lets go to splits

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/results/poland/split-times/page/367-232---.html

after 39,12 km the private fiesta is 9-7,8 sec slower from the triple champion with works polo.Kubica at gravel against Ogier with polo.Can you show me where the pirelli lost its pace after 39 kms?




Also the problems they had this year with several tyres coming off the rims for no apparent reason doesn't exist in your world does it?
In NORF in the service area it was very close that all Pirelli drivers would be prohibited from entering since the tyres exploded when fitting on the rims at about 8 bars call the FIA and ask if you don't believe me!
I agree that Pirelli is a fast tyre but that is as consistent as Michelin I do not.

i didnt said that they didnt had these problems.Did i? if i did quote me please.

[dimviii]

, and the Pirelli's didn't "pop" on the wheels at 8 bar, that could be possible. ;)

yes plenty of times pirellis had to inflate much more from 8 bars to drive the sidewalls to the rim.

[AMSS]

Bertelli and Prokop there is no reason to talk,there are not going to use any tyre at its maximum,so i really dont care what are they saying at 2-3sec per kn slower everywhere all over the world.
Lets go to Robert at Poland.
ss 7 39,12 km
Kubica 9 sec slower from Ogier and 7,8 from Latvala when the difference between Ogier and Latvala is 9,5 sec after 7 stages.
http://www.ewrc-results.com/results.php?e=19125&s=82178&t=Lotos-Rally-Poland-Rajd-Polski-2015

lets go to splits

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/results/poland/split-times/page/367-232---.html

after 39,12 km the private fiesta is 9-7,8 sec slower from the triple champion with works polo.Kubica at gravel against Ogier with polo.Can you show me where the pirelli lost its pace after 39 kms?





i didnt said that they didnt had these problems.Did i? if i did quote me please.
What was Kubicas time on he powerstage in Poland ;)
No but correct me if I'm wrong but it has quit an impact on the final time if these things occur doesn't it. This is one of the things I count as consistency, and yes Michelin has tem as well of course but percentages counted alot less.
Estwrc is right we need to end this so lets leave it that both tire brands(well all for that matter) have their advantages an disadvantages and it's up to the customers to choose what they want to buy. Have a god evening and we can continue this sometime in another thread, or should we create a tyre discussion thread ;)

[dimviii]

What was Kubicas time on he powerstage in Poland ;)
No but correct me if I'm wrong but it has quit an impact on the final time if these things occur doesn't it. This is one of the things I count as consistency, and yes Michelin has tem as well of course but percentages counted alot less.


when at 39,12 km its clear that the tyre havent got any disadvantage about its pace after some 10-20-30-40km,the problem is somewhere else.
its impossible for a tyre to have excellent longevity at some stages,and at some other stages to dont.Its the same tyre.
The problem is not at the tyre.


btw Kubica at powerstage had a flat tyre.

[AMSS]

btw Kubica at powerstage had a flat tyre.[/QUOTE]
I know it hence the ;)

[dimviii]

Anyway,that i have to say is that there is not a best tyre,sometimes a make has a advantage sometimes have disadvantage.
Dont believe whatever you hear,specially from drivers that they dont had a good rally or plenty of bad results.
Its very easy to blame the tyre,while the problem could be a combo from different reasons,or even the driver.
Pirelli are very good at motorsport tyres,specially at rallies,the sport we love.Of course sometimes Michelin have/had a better tyre,but that isnt forever.
Tyre makers make ''evos'' of tyres,that they dont give to public the info at all,and you cant find it with a mark at the tyre(thay can recognise of course),everything is the same.But when you drive the tyre is different.Only from inside info is possible to know some details.So that today Pirelli is better,maybe this will change with next evolution of michelin,or maybe not change.

[AMSS]

Anyway,that i have to say is that there is not a best tyre,sometimes a make has a advantage sometimes have disadvantage.
Dont believe whatever you hear,specially from drivers that they dont had a good rally or plenty of bad results.
Its very easy to blame the tyre,while the problem could be a combo from different reasons,or even the driver.
Pirelli are very good at motorsport tyres,specially at rallies,the sport we love.Of course sometimes Michelin have/had a better tyre,but that isnt forever.
Tyre makers make ''evos'' of tyres,that they dont give to public the info at all,and you cant find it with a mark at the tyre(thay can recognise of course),everything is the same.But when you drive the tyre is different.Only from inside info is possible to know some details.So that today Pirelli is better,maybe this will change with next evolution of michelin,or maybe not change.

Agreed!

[Lundefaret]

Anyway,that i have to say is that there is not a best tyre,sometimes a make has a advantage sometimes have disadvantage.
Dont believe whatever you hear,specially from drivers that they dont had a good rally or plenty of bad results.
Its very easy to blame the tyre,while the problem could be a combo from different reasons,or even the driver.
Pirelli are very good at motorsport tyres,specially at rallies,the sport we love.Of course sometimes Michelin have/had a better tyre,but that isnt forever.
Tyre makers make ''evos'' of tyres,that they dont give to public the info at all,and you cant find it with a mark at the tyre(thay can recognise of course),everything is the same.But when you drive the tyre is different.Only from inside info is possible to know some details.So that today Pirelli is better,maybe this will change with next evolution of michelin,or maybe not change.

Of my experience/knowledge I would say that a driver with the driving method/style of Kubica will wear his tyres faster than say Ogier. This is because he rounder of the corners more, making them longer (going for highest minimum speed vs better braking/acceleration with lower speed at apex/turning/rotation point.

This way You put both braking, sideways directional, and accelerating forces trough the tire - both at the same time, and for an extended time.
By going so fast with the style he does, he also generates higher overall forces.

When Ogier is accelerating after a corner, he very often does this in a straight line, with the car straight, very early after the corner has ended.

Kubica stretches the corner for longer. Because carrying higher speed mid corner, the weight of the car pushes him outside, so he hav to counter that with throttle and steering, just to keep him self on the road, while trying to accelerate.

Splitting up braking, turning/rotating and accelerating is the modern way of rally driving, and its much easier for the tires.

There have been numerous examples of Loeb and Ogier coming to the stage finish with the best time, and the least worn tires. If everybody drove the same way, this would not be possible. Then the one with the highest average speed, would be the one that had pushed the most energy trough the tire, and would have the most worn tire. But this is not the case, and it baffles me that the non-Ogiers dont put more effort in finding out why :)

To quote a famous tire maker: "Power is nothing whiteout control."

[dimviii]

Of my experience/knowledge I would say that a driver with the driving method/style of Kubica will wear his tyres faster than say Ogier. This is because he rounder of the corners more, making them longer (going for highest minimum speed vs better braking/acceleration with lower speed at apex/turning/rotation point.


i wrote it politely http://www.motorsportforums.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



its impossible for a tyre to have excellent longevity at some stages,and at some other stages to dont.Its the same tyre.
The problem is not at the tyre.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

World-of-Rally.com ‏@WorldofRally Nov 21
According to Norwegian media, @MadsOstberg has signed for new team, but not allowed to go official yet. Are we in for a surprise?

World-of-Rally.com ‏@WorldofRally Nov 23
A follow up on @MadsOstberg. The management said Mads will do all events for 2016, for which team will be hopefully announced soon.

BILLIOT Jérémie ‏@planetemarcus
@WorldofRally @MadsOstberg @HartusvuoriWRC Monte Carlo Test Days is coming very soon... we will know in few days.

[EstWRC]

Adapta

[skarderud]

Mads Østberg is in the studio at the radioshow "parc fermé" at www.radiomotor.no tonight at 19.00.
Tune in for the intervju, in norwegian.

[Grundo Farb]

i wrote it politely http://www.motorsportforums.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Guys with all due respect I don't care about tyres. start another thread.

[EstWRC]

So what did mads tell?

[dodge33cymru]

Adapta
Surely if that were the case (family team), there wouldn't be much need for secrecy or much in the way of contracts etc.?

With all the rumours about Bertelli, M-Sport and the Tanak and Evans scenario, I imagine it's there.

[skarderud]

So what did mads tell?
Sorry, next week! Before weekend it was ready for a presentation, but something wasn't ready.

But european champion in RX s1600 Mats lysen do rally next season, Ole Christian veiby do RX in Argentina, but rally is his main focus next season too.

[WUff1]

Sorry, next week! Before weekend it was ready for a presentation, but something wasn't ready.

But european champion in RX s1600 Mats lysen do rally next season, Ole Christian veiby do RX in Argentina, but rally is his main focus next season too.

Won´t be any news - Ostberg goes back to M Sport (and doesn´t raise the level there).

[EstWRC]

i think Ostberg-Tänak line-up would be pretty good, basically like Ostberg-Meeke was. Ostberg-Evans line-up would be a nightmare IMO in the sense that both are solid point scorers and finishers but they don't have that raw speed like Meeke and Tänak. And i remember very clearly that Wilson this year has said many times that he is only interested in wins, good luck with that if you choose Ostberg-Evans.

[skarderud]

I think the Ford suits Mads better than the Citroën. He was much closer the winner in the Ford back in the days, so i'm quite sure he is still the best not vw in the end of next season too. What else can you ask for in a Ford when vw is totally out of reach?

[dodge33cymru]

And yet he was the first non-VW last year, both in the championship and on many events. I think the VWs' level of advantage has given him a worse reputation than he deserves.

[EstWRC]

Points wise yeah but speed wise he wasnt the best non-VW. im not saying that Meeke or Tänak would 100% win with m-sport but the chance with them is bigger.

Yeah Mads was great with Ford back in the day but for me it seems he reached his peak, from then on others have progressed while he he hasn't.

Anyway like i said, i think Ostberg-Tänak line-up would be strong but we will see what Wilson decides.

[EstWRC]

DMACK Tyres
‏@DMACK_Tyres
Just a few days until we release our BIG @OfficialWRC news regarding 2016… #staytuned

their own wrc team? or deal with m-sport? what do you think?

[DoubleD]

Tanak is out of M-Sport.

[AMSS]

http://beta.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121965/tanak-dropped-by-msport-for-2016

[Andre Oliveira]

Tanak dropped by M-Sport for 2016

Ott Tanak will be dropped by M-Sport's works World Rally Championship team but is set to immediately pick up a 2016 drive in a DMACK-branded Ford instead, Autosport has learned.

The Estonian is expected to form part of a two-car team with Jari Ketomaa in next year's world championship.

DMACK has long made clear its intention to step up its WRC commitment and will run both drivers in Ford Fiesta RS WRCs. The team is not expected to contest all 14 rallies.

Tanak's demotion, which has not yet been confirmed by DMACK or M-Sport, is the first part of a series of moves that will reshape M-Sport's WRC squad.

Managing director Malcolm Wilson confirmed to Autosport that he expects to be in a position to confirm his drivers in the coming days, with Monte Carlo Rally testing beginning next week.

Since the end of the season, Wilson has been openly critical of Tanak, telling Estonian media: "This has been less than satisfactory from a results point of view.

"Two crashes in the last two rallies for Ott does not put him in a strong position to be included as part of the main team next season."

Wilson's concern has remained Tanak's concentration level.

"It's always important to have a driver relaxed and Ott's had his own trainer with him this season, but there's obviously still work to be done to get the consistency back and to stop making silly mistakes," he said.

"The big thing is the concentration - look at the level of concentration Sebastien Ogier puts in; he's only made one mistake this year.

"To only have one accident when you're driving at the speed he's driving at shows he's absolutely concentrated and there's nothing else in his mind other than driving that car from one end of the stage to another."

M-SPORT CONSIDERED FOLLOWING CITROEN CUTBACK

As M-Sport closes on finalising its 2016 WRC plans, Wilson has admitted the team considered following Citroen into a part-time programme and leaving just Volkswagen and Hyundai as full-time manufacturer teams.

Wilson had always maintained M-Sport would contest the full 2016 season, but he said the calendar expanding to 14 events with China added and Citroen's decision had given him food for thought.

"I can understand Citroen doing what it's done," he said.

"I have told you before the calendar concerns me - it's very, very congested at a time when we need to be working flat-out on the 2017 car.

"At the moment it would be wrong to say we have decided not to enter as a manufacturer. The aim is to be there [on all 14 rounds].

"No firm decision has been taken at this point, but we'd be silly not to look at going down the route Citroen has taken."

The deadline both for manufacturers to sign up for 2016 and for Monte Carlo entries is December 18.

[EstWRC]

God how i hate Wilson, good luck to him getting to know the speed of the Fiesta with Ostberg, Evans and the Prada boy :rolleyes:

[WUff1]

Evans and Ostberg? Two point securers, but not extraordinary fast?

[rallyfiend]

I doubt it's Evans.

I bet he's on the outs as well.

[DoubleD]

I'm not sure I blame Wilson if I am honest, sure Tanak does set some quick times but he usually ends up in a tree/lake/ditch at the end of it. Not really advertising how quick his cars are if they are on a flatbed half of the time.

[EstWRC]

Of course it is Evans, who else? he talks him always up even is he has had a bad rally and he is besties with his father.

[EstWRC]

DMACK Tyres ‏@DMACK_Tyres 5m5 minutes ago
Loving all the driver transfer rumours this time every year, maybe @krismeeke wants to come and join us too??! #dreamteam

Tänak and Meeke would be great btw :P

[dodge33cymru]

Would be great to see a 2 car DMack team, really would put their products on show, although part of me would prefer them to stay in R5 ranks where they can compete for wins and raise the quality of the class.

Tanak frankly has done enough to be dropped or retained, apart from Poland and the odd stage elsewhere, he's shown very occasional pace but been arguably the least consistent out of all 10 full-time (--ish, in Paddon's case) manufacturer seats. At least Meeke's inconsitency beat all the Hyundais and Fords in the championship.

Ostberg and Evans would seems a slightly strange combination, but maybe they have a surprise lined up.

Can't blame Malcolm for dropping Tanak to try something else, nor could I blame him for cutting back his programme slightly on the overseas rounds - the best part of that is that it sounds like they're certainly planning a 2017 car at M-Sport!

[Andre Oliveira]

And an "official" M-Sport driver on WRC2. Kajto? Breen? Evans? This is silly season ahah next week starts M-Sport MC test

[EstWRC]

this news has turned into a joke now on twitter and it seems it may be not true

M-sport's PR:
Anna Louise Rudd ‏@AnnaLouiseRudd 55m55 minutes ago
Who doesn't love a bit of speculation at this time of year...? #goodcrack

Ott Tänak ‏@OttTanak 40m40 minutes ago
Seems this is my special song at the moment!!! #wrcfun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nox57hdgeAU …


Ott Tänak ‏@OttTanak 16m16 minutes ago
Maybe this is also on my playlist for this week!! #whoknows https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB1D9wWxd2w …


if it isnt true then i havent seen that Autosport have ever been so wrong. Then again, it is David Evans.

[er88]

Tanak only has himself to blame. He's blown it, but is lucky he'll have DMACK to pick him up off the floor. Ostberg and Evans would be a strange combination though, unless Evans is getting the bullet too?



Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

[christy but]

I still think breen will be in a wrc next year.maybe share seat with evans ?

[dodge33cymru]

Even is Evans also gets the boot, there's no other 'hot shoe' out there, apart from Meeke or Lappi, who are both pretty much accounted for, or a gamble on someone who's not proven as quick as either, like Breen or Bergkvist.

That said, there's every chance they'll be trounced for pace by the two works teams and be looking for finishers rather than pace-setters.

[Sch17]

It would be nice to see Ostberg with Mikkelsen on the second VW team, they would probably win Manufacturers Championship

[Lord_Shaitan]

Tanak and Meeke in DMAC WRT? Bring it on! That would be a sensational and fiery lineup.

I really hope Tanak will get a WRC seat for next year as well as Meeke and Kubica.

[dodge33cymru]

I expect Meeke will be happy with a 2016 partial season if he's guaranteed a seat in 2017.

[EightGear]

It would be nice to see Ostberg with Mikkelsen on the second VW team, they would probably win Manufacturers Championship

No they would not.

[Simmi]

If Tanak ends up falling into a Dmack Fiesta programme that is a great scenario for him and he's a lucky boy. Take it with both hands Ott.

[dodge33cymru]

I'd suggest he's earned the support of DMACK with some good WRC and WRC2 performances for them, he certainly hasn't earned the same from two years with M-Sport.

[Quad]

Then M-Sport has really "mighty" fast team with Ostberg and Evans...

I hope there will be Tanak, Meeke and Kubica somehow next season otherwise it's already boring

[Simmi]

Then M-Sport has really "mighty" fast team with Ostberg and Evans...

Let's wait until it's confirmed before getting too upset. Strong rumours M-Sport would drop both their 2015 guys.

EDIT: Although to be fair just listening to the Absolute Rally podcast (would recommend it this week) Julian Porter says his money would be on Ostberg/Evans.

I really hope Malcolm just takes a punt on some young gun. Just give them a chance - unless he thinks that Hyundai could be there for the taking next year if the car isn't sorted. That's second place in the manufacturers.

[macebig]

Come on,people.Ostberg is the best driver available and with quite some margin.He is a rally winner,the best finisher in 2015 championship(excluding of course the VW trio),a solid point scorer and has a lot of experience to help with car development-especially if Ford returns with the new Fiesta in 2017 thats very important-.Evans has some backing from Ford UK so it makes sense for him to stay.Tanak showed some pace but in the end what will be remember from him about his 2015 campaign is his dive in Mexico.What I want to see is Bernkvist get a chance in a R5.If Wilson does it,thats a plus.

[skarderud]

Or, just to shake things up a bit, If ostberg is in some private effort next year, he has something secured for 2017 already.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Who deserves M-Sport seat more, Evans or Tanak ?

http://worldrallyapp.com/2015/11/25/evans-vs-tanak-who-deserves-that-m-sport-seat-more/

[AL14]

I'm really sorry for Tanak but I can understand Wilson. Tanak has had chances for two years and apart for some spark he was crashing his car and going slow as well sometimes. I like the person and the driver and I hoped for a confirmation because his speed was huge sometimes and maybe he deserved one more year. But in WRC you can't be forever a promise, you should deliver soon and he didn't.

What I will not understand at this point is the confirmation of Evans if it will happen. He should really pay good money to stay again.

[Simmi]

In a sport riddled with problems, the fact that no one can really name a realistic stand-out candidate to replace Ott Tanak has got to be right up there at the top.

An awesome Ford team for me would be Ostberg/Kubica - with a bit of funding from those guys effectively allowing Ford to run Camilli/Tidemand on a few rounds each.

[AL14]

In a sport riddled with problems, the fact that no one can really name a realistic stand-out candidate to replace Ott Tanak has got to be right up there at the top.

An awesome Ford team for me would be Ostberg/Kubica - with a bit of funding from those guys effectively allowing Ford to run Camilli/Tidemand on a few rounds each.

I usually agree with you but getting rid of Tanak to take Kubica is not a good idea unless you want some of Kubica's sponsors.
I would let Tidemand have a few rounds like you said btw.

[wia5958]

Come on,people.Ostberg is the best driver available and with quite some margin.He is a rally winner,the best finisher in 2015 championship(excluding of course the VW trio),a solid point scorer and has a lot of experience to help with car development-especially if Ford returns with the new Fiesta in 2017 thats very important-.Evans has some backing from Ford UK so it makes sense for him to stay.Tanak showed some pace but in the end what will be remember from him about his 2015 campaign is his dive in Mexico.What I want to see is Bernkvist get a chance in a R5.If Wilson does it,thats a plus.

Rally winner? 1 win from 90 wrc starts. 14 podiums out of them 90 starts

[litifeta]

I think VW have redefined what a 'professional team' really is. The others are merely 'full time' now. Citroen had a good run with a car designed for one person. VW have proven that while theirs is heavily influenced by Ogier, other drivers can win driving it. The onboards show the VWs are driven nowhere near the level of risk the other team drivers are taking. Simply a better car prepared by professionals. The others unfortunately have been shown to come up short.

[Simmi]

I usually agree with you but getting rid of Tanak to take Kubica is not a good idea unless you want some of Kubica's sponsors.
I would let Tidemand have a few rounds like you said btw.

The reason I'd take Kubica is because I believe his upside, his potential, his ceiling - whatever you want to call it - is higher. I think he'd massively benefit from moving back into a professional set-up at this stage in his career. He's still going to have a few shunts, no doubt - but I think if you can remove that layer of niggling problems (bad reliability, bad preparation, punctures) then we know he has the pace. So often his rallies are over before they've even started and that bred negativity. With some man management from Malcolm and some structure and goal-setting on rallies (a bit of method instead of madness) I think he could certainly put up the same points Tanak did this year.

Plus he's a bigger name PR-wise, he has some sponsors. Maybe he doesn't need to be a manufacturer points scorer every round. And if he scores 11 points again at the end of next year we can close the book on Kubica.

[RS]

Ostberg / Kubica could be interesting, a tortoise and hare lineup if you like.

I wouldn't waste time thinking about Tidemand or Lappi, I suspect they're both under long term VAG contract and they'd be mad to want to leave that anyway.

[GigiGalliNo1]

FYI a meeting fell through/broke down with a "Leading" WRC driver and M-Sport....

[EstWRC]

Meeke?

[GigiGalliNo1]

I'll find out soon

[er88]

I'll find out soon
Please let us know when Ogier goes back to Citreon and is joined there by Evans, and when Meeke rocks up at VW. Ta


Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

[AL14]

The reason I'd take Kubica is because I believe his upside, his potential, his ceiling - whatever you want to call it - is higher. I think he'd massively benefit from moving back into a professional set-up at this stage in his career. He's still going to have a few shunts, no doubt - but I think if you can remove that layer of niggling problems (bad reliability, bad preparation, punctures) then we know he has the pace. So often his rallies are over before they've even started and that bred negativity. With some man management from Malcolm and some structure and goal-setting on rallies (a bit of method instead of madness) I think he could certainly put up the same points Tanak did this year.

Plus he's a bigger name PR-wise, he has some sponsors. Maybe he doesn't need to be a manufacturer points scorer every round. And if he scores 11 points again at the end of next year we can close the book on Kubica.

Agree on most of what you said beside this sentence: "With some man management from Malcolm and some structure and goal-setting on rallies (a bit of method instead of madness)".
The bigger error by Kubica in these two years has been not to listen to others and keep his own "madness" approach. He has never changed his idea and still believe he is in the right path. I don't think that a structure or Wilson could make him change his mind. We've had a proof in 2014.
If this wasn't true be sure that Wilson, which is seeking sponsored drivers like a man lost in the desert seek water, would have already contacted him.

[EstWRC]

I agree with AL14 about Kubica, this is why basically Wilson dropped Tänak again too because according to him Tänak still doesnt get his head together although he admits that he has changed a lot from 2012. He gave 2 interviews this week to estonian radio and newspapers and he said that Ott has huge natural talent and speedwise is TOP3 guy but he still doesnt have the consistency.

Anyway, i hope Tänak totally destroys Evans and Ostberg next season but it will be very hard with the Dmack tyres, i think it will be very good if he will be finishing in TOP6 and setting TOP6 stage times. And i hope he will get a deal with Citroen for 2017.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

This is silly (season) Ott Tanak vs ... :D

https://youtu.be/rJZjjaContk

[GigiGalliNo1]

Please let us know when Ogier goes back to Citreon and is joined there by Evans, and when Meeke rocks up at VW. Ta


Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

Sure....

[RICARDO75]

Bertelli with M-Sport

[GigiGalliNo1]

This is mega SILLY:

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/fiat-to-make-wrc-comeback-with-abarth-124-spider-ar171839.html?utm_content=buffer5f027&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[EstWRC]

lol, that team will be ridiculos...m-sport i mean

[Simmi]

I wouldn't waste time thinking about Tidemand or Lappi, I suspect they're both under long term VAG contract and they'd be mad to want to leave that anyway.

Yeah like you I figure Tidemand must have a VAG deal. But if I were him I'd be trying to get a few long-term assurances. Right now he is driving for a manufacturer which is great. If he is looking firmly at WRC in a WRC car I'd be slightly worried about Pontus getting caught in a VW/EVEN talent log jam.

In 2017 if we get the expected - Latvala out, Mikkelsen moves up, Lappi in. Where does Tidemand go then - bearing in mind he'll have had another likely season of WRC2 under his belt. I doubt there will be four VWs in 2017.

[rallyace]

This is silly (season) Ott Tanak vs ... :D

https://youtu.be/rJZjjaContk

The only reason the 1/8 car lost was because it was clearly on Pirelli tires... :D

[RS]

Yeah like you I figure Tidemand must have a VAG deal. But if I were him I'd be trying to get a few long-term assurances. Right now he is driving for a manufacturer which is great. If he is looking firmly at WRC in a WRC car I'd be slightly worried about Pontus getting caught in a VW/EVEN talent log jam.

In 2017 if we get the expected - Latvala out, Mikkelsen moves up, Lappi in. Where does Tidemand go then - bearing in mind he'll have had another likely season of WRC2 under his belt. I doubt there will be four VWs in 2017.

Maybe VW could run 4 cars in 2017, or maybe 2016 could be a shoot-out between Tidemand and Lappi?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Lorenzo Bertelli ‏@fuckmatie37
Fuckmatiè World Rally Team has closed, but I will still be there with @MSportLtd, pushing hard for another season in WRC.

Hmmm, 3-car M-Sport team, or two teams, M-Sport 1 & M-Sport 2 ?

[dodge33cymru]

Hope the latter, suspect the former.

[EstWRC]

Two teams, second one with dmacks

[Mariusz]

Agree on most of what you said beside this sentence: "With some man management from Malcolm and some structure and goal-setting on rallies (a bit of method instead of madness)".
The bigger error by Kubica in these two years has been not to listen to others and keep his own "madness" approach. He has never changed his idea and still believe he is in the right path. I don't think that a structure or Wilson could make him change his mind. We've had a proof in 2014.
If this wasn't true be sure that Wilson, which is seeking sponsored drivers like a man lost in the desert seek water, would have already contacted him.
This is just your imagination. What others should have he listened to? To forum experts like you? ;)

[Simmi]

Two teams, second one with dmacks

Seems like that Dmack outfit (Tanak/Ketomaa) is separate to M-Sport no?

[AL14]

This is just your imagination. What others should have he listened to? To forum experts like you? ;)
That would have been a nice start.
Those people could have been all the ones he got rid during his career, changing teams and collaborators, ending up to be surrounded by people who don't question him like you. ;)

[Mariusz]

That would have been a nice start.
Those people could have been all the ones he got rid during his career, changing teams and collaborators, ending up to be surrounded by people who don't question him like you. ;)
Names of those people please or it never happened.

[AL14]

I wrote it bad. I meant all the people who surrounded him when he was at Citroen, Ford and maybe even a-style were suggesting him to learn how to drive a wrc car and that maybe crash it all the time was not a good way to do it. I'm not giving any scoop, it's just my idea of the situation.

[Mariusz]

I wrote it bad. I meant all the people who surrounded him when he was at Citroen, Ford and maybe even a-style were suggesting him to learn how to drive a wrc car and that maybe crash it all the time was not a good way to do it. I'm not giving any scoop, it's just my idea of the situation.
What? All the people? How do you know that? ;) Maybe it was just the opposite and there were people who were suggesting him that to learn to drive FAST a wrc car you've got to hit your limits? And when would it be a better time to do it if not at the time when you're in your own team and you don't have to think about manufacturers points?
But I respect your opinion that you want him to become just another average driver.

[AL14]

What? All the people? How do you know that? ;) Maybe it was just the opposite and there were people who were suggesting him that to learn to drive FAST a wrc car you've got to hit your limits? And when would it be a better time to do it if not at the time when you're in your own team and you don't have to think about manufacturers points?
But I respect your opinion that you want him to become just another average driver.

Average? Don't you see he is not even close to average at the moment? How do you think he could be at the top? Continuing like this? Good luck with it!

[maciotacio]

Agree on most of what you said beside this sentence: "With some man management from Malcolm and some structure and goal-setting on rallies (a bit of method instead of madness)".
The bigger error by Kubica in these two years has been not to listen to others and keep his own "madness" approach. He has never changed his idea and still believe he is in the right path.

I don't agree with this sentence at all. In 2013 (WRC 2) he clearly showed that when he was asked (by Matton) to deliver the result he did it. The recent 2 years has been completely different in terms of pressure and his objectives and Mariusz explained it quite well.

[Mirek]

I don't want to argue about Robert but please don't paint his 2013 season in too shiny colors. His ERC mission was quite a disaster with just one 6th place out of four starts.

[maciotacio]

But i'm talking about WRC rounds - he complete each rally, only in Portugal (first gravel rally in life!) was out of podium position, not ERC campaign. Robert admited in some interview that he took ERC starts in training/learning attitude - completely different than WRC rounds

That all from me, because it's not Robert Kubica thread

[GigiGalliNo1]

You all got the story that FIAT will be entering the WRC?

[N.O.T]

You all got the story that FIAT will be entering the WRC?

yes this story is a classic for the last 10-20 years or so...

[GigiGalliNo1]

. .

[makinen_fan]

Tanak and DMack is official now

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUzpZ1VWsAAFUm5.jpg:large

Ott Tänak ‏@OttTanak 1m1 minute ago
Really happy to say I will be driving in WRC for @DMACK_Tyres in 2016. I’m very motivated to help DMACK and show my speed. #bringiton

DMACK Tyres ‏@DMACK_Tyres 6m6 minutes ago
We’ve launched the DMACK World Rally Team!! 2016 WRC with @OttTanak in a @MSportLtd Ford Fiesta RS WRC! #goOTT

[AL14]

Tanak and DMack is official now

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUzpZ1VWsAAFUm5.jpg:large

Ott Tänak ‏@OttTanak 1m1 minute ago
Really happy to say I will be driving in WRC for @DMACK_Tyres in 2016. I’m very motivated to help DMACK and show my speed. #bringiton

DMACK Tyres ‏@DMACK_Tyres 6m6 minutes ago
We’ve launched the DMACK World Rally Team!! 2016 WRC with @OttTanak in a @MSportLtd Ford Fiesta RS WRC! #goOTT

I hope he will be ahead of M-Sports drivers all the time. With DMACK will be harder but they've employed new and experienced people. Hope Ott will improve together with them and make that step forward he needs badly.

[EstWRC]

Awesome, knew it already from my insider but i didnt know that they were doing all the rallies! Now when theres not so much pressuse from Wilson, i think he will be performing better. Raigo has a year-long experience now and it all should come together!

[Simmi]

14 rounds is a good surprise. For me I don't think Tanak should be in a 'factory' seat right now but I still think he has something to offer in the WRC. This is a perfect opportunity.

Obviously this news today is different to the Autosport news of a 2-car team which was not expected to do all the rallies. So let's see if we get any drives for Ketomaa next year, given his WRC2 ride has been taken by the combination of Aasen/Parn.

[RS]

If DMack run a second car, I would rather they gave Hanninen a go than Ketomaa.

[EstWRC]

i think they won't run second car, it was just autosport's speculation.

[Simmi]

Whether the second car comes or not - full respect to Dmack. I was a bit p*ssed when they pulled their entries from GB but I sort of figured they had an announcement like this in the pipeline.

Look at what they are doing at all levels of the sport. FIA WRC team with Tanak. 2-car WRC2 squad. Dmack Fiesta Trophy (for me the more interesting junior series). 2-car BRC team. Probably also some other stuff I'm not aware of. It's very impressive.

[Rallyper]

So that was TAnak to D-MAck. Now we wait for MSport to do next official...

Ostberg - Evans or maybe Kubica? Meeke?

[maciotacio]

I would be surprised if Malcolm didn't choose Ostberg-Evans lineup.

[bluuford]

It seems to me that DMack has got the best available pilot for their campain for next year. Very good deal for both sides I belive.

[b3637853]

So that was TAnak to D-MAck. Now we wait for MSport to do next official...

Ostberg - Evans or maybe Kubica? Meeke?

I don't know how is Evans better choice than Tanak, but it's probably gonna be like that. Meeke should get some drives in Citroen so they could sign him in 2017. Concerning Kubica, Citroen said thay he can get newest DS3 evolution for his private team, but he bought 2015 Fiesta this year so why should he change that? I'm guessing few round for Kubica but still in his private team.

[Dug83]

Is it M-Sport going to be running Ott in the DMack car? If he starts beating the M-Sport guys will parts start failing on the car?

[Jack4688`]

i think they won't run second car, it was just autosport's speculation.

David Evans just reports speculation (or even ideas purely in his own head) as news.

[AL14]

David Evans just reports speculation (or even ideas purely in his own head) as news.

And they put some of his articles only for premium members. I wonder who is paying a single cents to read them.

[Simmi]

Is it M-Sport going to be running Ott in the DMack car? If he starts beating the M-Sport guys will parts start failing on the car?

Looks like M-Sport and Dmack have agreed a support package. Good conspiracy theory but not sure that's in anyone's interests.

[EstWRC]

The car is from m-sport and the same which Tänak drove this season but as i understand the mechanics and etc is up to Dmack. There's an interview with Dmack's PR Glenn Patterson in todays estonian newspaper and he says that they havent set any goals for Tänak and he has no pressure, their main goal is to develop the tires and get stage wins. In the end he says that MAYBE on some rallies they will have two cars with Ketomaa behind the wheel.

SHow them Tänak! :p

[faateris]

For Tanak this is step back and 1 year only for gaining experience...... Really bad news for fast driver. Dmack tyres, this is something XXXXXXX. Pirelli with punctures are bad, but dmack......
We all know how fast can be Ketomaa, but driving with these tyres he was so slow this year. I'm sure he is faster rally driver than Al-Attiah.
And next 2016' for Tanak result will be zero. This means, possible problems with finding seat in serious team for 2017'.
I hope, I'm wrong......

[prpr]

Will Autotek or CA1 Sport be involved?

[AL14]

For Tanak this is step back and 1 year only for gaining experience...... Really bad news for fast driver. Dmack tyres, this is something XXXXXXX. Pirelli with punctures are bad, but dmack......
We all know how fast can be Ketomaa, but driving with these tyres he was so slow this year. I'm sure he is faster rally driver than Al-Attiah.
And next 2016' for Tanak result will be zero. This means, possible problems with finding seat in serious team for 2017'.
I hope, I'm wrong......

You're right about DMACK tires but they have hired Brivio from Pirelli and now are investing huge amount of money in rally. Tanak will have a slower car than last year due to the new compounds tires, especially at the beginning of the year, but the goal is to improve together, and they can only go better from Monte to Australia.
As for the seat for 2017, first of all DMACK have a three years plan and Tanak is the best they could aim at the moment, and for sure on 2017, so at least he will remain there. Secondly I suppose that factory teams will take into account he will be driving with less performing tyres before taking the decision to judge him. Last but not least now Tanak has a full team backing him, encouraging him and helping him, instead of a boss, which I respect very much, but who had always sweet words for Ott's teammate who was clearly slower and with less hopes than Tanak.

[nafpaktos]

I dont think tannak's problem was wilson's behaviour.He is inconsistent driver like Meeke or Jarri and this will not change.At least i hope for him to gain some extra experience for the future with his new team.Since the tean wants to evolve it's tyres it is logical that he will do a lot of testing and that really good.

[Jack4688`]

No disrespect to Tanak or M-Sport but there's no chance they would have been challenging for regular wins next year and really putting up a fight to the VWs in 2017. When someone is as dominant and as competent as Ogier and the VW right now everybody else has to re-assess what they want from their career as a WRC driver. So with being dropped by M-Sport this is probably the best move out there for Tanak as I would imagine this is the start of a prolonged effort by DMACK at tackling the WRC.

Unless he fucks it up for himself I would expect him to be there for 3 seasons or if he turns into the second best driver in the WRC overnight at some point along that 3 year period and gains a factory drive. M-Sport doesn't want him anymore, Citroen will be at maybe 6 events next year, Hyundai is full and VW rightly have the best drivers under contract - this is easily the best option for him. He's doing a full season, in a car that is a known quantity to him and is driving for a 'factory' entry - if only in terms of tyres not the car.

[Simmi]

Yep I do not subscribe to the theory that Tanak has been hard done by at all. He was the lowest scoring factory driver this year by a decent amount. In the same 13 rallies Ogier scored literally 200 points more than Tanak did.

Okay Ogier smashed everyone this season, but it's difficult to turn around and demand a factory seat after that. He did nothing this year to prove the doubters wrong. So with that said this Dmack drive over 14 rounds is a gift from the rally gods. He's had all pressure removed from him.

Equally if Elfyn remains in a factory M-Sport Fiesta next year he will be a lucky boy - but he'll be under a lot of pressure and I doubt with more mediocre performances he'd be a lock for all 14 rounds. He'll be on a short leash.

[dodge33cymru]

Agree with Simmi, Elfyn will be lucky to keep his seat, but he is younger and less experienced than Tanak, yet still outscored him this year in the championship and even got a better 'best' result of the year.

I'm glad to see Tanak be handed another chance, but this really is his last one to do something more with his career. With only the two factory teams and M-Sport this year, but potentially up to 4 or 5 the following year, he has a chance to prove this year that he deserves a shot in one of those 10-12 coveted seats for 2017.

He's a lucky boy to get the chance, even after previous two attempts with M-Sport, whilst he's still relatively young still, but as I said before, he has earned that luck by showing strongly for DMack in the past and giving them enough confidence to throw their weight behind him, in a team that seems built around him no less, for 2016.

[AL14]

Guys of course Wilson is not the cause of Tanak bad results last year. I just wanted to say that this new team could help him because they have only him and will concentrate efforts helping him.

[EstWRC]

I wouldn't say that Evans is that less experienced than Tänak, both have had 2 seasons now on top level but Evans had the luxury to do 2 season in a row while Tänak had a 2 year pause basically and it really hurt him on tarmac.

[Rally Power]

The car is from m-sport and the same which Tänak drove this season but as i understand the mechanics and etc is up to Dmack.

The feeling from MSport/DMack PR is that MSport will run the car for DMack. They use words like partnership and combined platform, that doesn't make sense if MSport job was to be only a car/parts supplier.
http://www.m-sport.co.uk/m-sport-news/fiesta-rs-wrc/interest-high-as-2016-drive-dmack-fiesta-trophy-launches

Anyway, great news for WRC! Tanak, one of the finest drivers around, will continue and DMack strength their presence in rallying. Like many of you said, this might be a good move for Tanak, as DMack's showing they'll be in WRC for a long time.

This can be also a sort of confirmation of a full season entry for MSport, with Ostberg and Bertelli (Evans in WRC2 with the R5?). Not a competitive line up, but lots of funds for Mr. Wilson run the team in this interim season, before the 2017 WRC restart. Meanwhile, Wilson public uncertainty over the 2016 campaign is useful to pressure FIA on the 14 events calendar issue...

[Rallyper]

Any comparison between Tanak and Ogier is unnecessary.

[GigiGalliNo1]

A certain UAE state will be back supporting M-Sport if I haven't mentioned already :D

[jbmarcus21]

A certain UAE state will be back supporting M-Sport if I haven't mentioned already :D

Qatar ? Abu Dhabi ?

[liposh]

Qatar is not UAE state, so it has to be Abu Dhabi.

[EstWRC]

A lot of interviews with Tänak last night and some more information. This is what he said: The deal was basically already signed after Rally Spain, he is very happy about the deal because it its very important to be in the picture in 2016 to get a good deal for 2017. The speed was there this season but now he needs to put it together with consistency and make it into good results. The car, mechanics, inseners etc all will be same as this year. The only difference from other m-sport guys is just that he is driving with Dmacks. He expects the beginning of the season to be very though, expects to be on the pace on fast gravel rallies which suit the dmack tyres. Test days will be together with m-sport and it starts next weekend.

[Simmi]

With this you can see where the 'M-Sport to run Dmacks' rumours came from. It's half true ;)

It seems both Tanak and Dmack are auditioning themselves ahead of 2017. M-Sport will get a really good look at those tyres for 12 months - especially if they are testing together.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Oh sh!t, sorry I mean Middle East country.... damn it. You got me on that one...

[Rally Power]

Rallylink.it had a chat with Bertelli about his 2016 MSport program: Pirelli tyres and a new codriver (Simone Scattolin).

[Simmi]

I figured he would still be on Pirellis but good to see it confirmed. Lots of different tyres under the M-Sport service awning next year then.

[Mirek]

Lots of different tyres under the M-Sport service awning next year then.

That's actually very good for M-Sport. It has direct comparison; as a privateer-oriented team they can offer their customers better services based on experience with various tyres and in the end they can take sponsorship money from differend tyre manufacturers using several satelite teams :)

[dimviii]

Rallylink.it had a chat with Bertelli about his 2016 MSport program: Pirelli tyres and a new codriver (Simone Scattolin).

again Pirellis??

wasnt complaining about the tyres?

[tommeke_B]

Dimviii, your posts make it look like you are selling Pirelli tyres... :D

[dimviii]

i was working for Pirelli for some years.

[Simmi]

Fingers crossed we get some M-Sport news tomorrow.

[ruesluporp]

again Pirellis??

wasnt complaining about the tyres?


Yesterday, Valentino Rossi won the Monza Rally Show with Pirelli tyres, while Neuville was second on Michelin tyres...

[EstWRC]

M-sport will announce their drivers in an hour, my guess is Ostberg, Evans, Bertelli. Camili in the R5 for WRC2.

[KiwiWRCfan]

Just over one hour until silly season 2016 ends.
Any last predictions anyone ?
http://www.motorsportmonday.com/
What could the words "M-Sports all-new line-up for the 2016 #WRC season" mean ?

[maciotacio]

I can tell you right now, it will be Ostberg, Evans and Bertelli.

[AL14]

Ostberg. Evans, Bertelli and Tanak from DMack.

Wilson will provide services to those drivers and teams and will not pay one cent for drivers services.
On the contrary he will be payed by some of them and the others will drive for free if not pay as well. At the same time he will test closely all three tires brands.
As for outcome from 2016 he will count on two solid point scorers, maybe it is a boring lineup but he will get points.

This man is a genius.

[Karukera]

Wilson is an entrepreneur and Ford wears tutu.

[Jaanus]

http://www.m-sport.co.uk/m-sport-news/fiesta-rs-wrc/m-sport-confirm-ostberg-and-camilli-for-2016

[MartijnS]

Quite a surprise they signed Camilli imo.

[dodge33cymru]

Edit: ha, wrote the below before the confirmation. Little surprising to me, but I wonder if Toyota are paying for this season to see if he's worth having next year?



.
And why shouldn't he?

With no Ogier, Latvala, Mikkelsen, Neuville, Paddon, Sordo, Abbring, Lappi, Kopecky or Meeke on the market, Ostberg is the best available to them and they've signed him up.

Evans might not be a leading star, but he's a steady driver that will solidify a championship position and he's also intrinsically linked to Ford/M-Sport so, if he does have a breakout season, there is a good chance of him staying on there. Maybe a risk on a Tidemand, Camilli or Bergkvist could pay off, but with Citroen and Toyota (and probably Hyundai) recruiting next year, what would be the point in developing someone this year, that one of those teams would inevitably take if they turned out to be a success?

Is it a superb lineup? No. Is it as strong a lineup as possible? Pretty much. To not have to pay for it is excellent business and the reason why Malcolm is able to run a semi-factory team at the top level.

[EightGear]

Big gamble with Camilli, very curious how he'll go...

[MartijnS]

Can't see him having the pace of Evans.

[b3637853]

Hundreds of our posts where we were trying to predict the line-up and still a surprise. I personally don't know if it is a good choice by Malcom. I seriously doubt that Camilli can be better than Evans. Maybe Wilson just wanted the French guy because it is the only way to win ;)

[eestlane]

Money, money, money!

[seb_sh]

I think signing Camilli is a mix between a gamble and wanting to bring new drivers in. If Camilli performs well it will be hard to keep him on for 2017 but on the other hand worst case is he is a bit worse than Evans so really not that big a risk. There are probably some financial aspects as well, that we don't know.

[dodge33cymru]

Actually, the other interesting thing is that there's no mention of Bertelli

[EstWRC]

What the hell? Wilson needs to go to the doctor, so money hungry?

[tommeke_B]

Very nice surprise! :) I'm following him since he drove the 208 cup in France, this year his results were a bit disappointing but we'll see how he does. Remember he was driving a Fiesta R5 against more competitive R5 cars.

[mousti]

Money, money, money!

I don't know if Camilli has big backers..

[AL14]

This is a surprise indeed.
Is Eric the first french driver to drive for Malcom?
And what will Evans do now?

[Quad]

Camilli ? :eek:



What the....

[RS]

What about Evans?

Surprised about Camilli, I can't say i've seen anything that remarkable to deserve it but maybe Toyota pay.

I'm not a big fan of this 'throwing people in a WRCar before they are ready or proven' trend.

[EstWRC]

Tänak was also promoted straight from one full season in SWRC to WRC but he had more experience and he other hand showed amazing speed in S2000 car with mixing it up on some stages with WRC cars (finland 2011 for example). i havent seen anything like that from Camili or from others in recent years (apart from Ogier in skoda). Very Very surprising decision.

[tommeke_B]

@RS, Every current WRC-top driver was thrown in a WRC car before he had proven it to be worthy... How can you prove yourself without getting a chance for it? For Ogier people here said it was too early, for Neuville people here said it was too early, for Lefebvre the same, for Camilli the same... We'll see how it will turn out, I'm a big fan of Camilli with his efficient driving style. :) Also people judge his results in WRC2 as "not quick enough", but we have to question the speed of the current Fiesta R5 when M-Sport suddenly pulls 35hp and 50Nm out of their magic hat...

[b3637853]

Rumours say that Evans with Bertelli in second M-Sport team. Not said how many rounds each will do.

[French_Paulo]

Camilli... as an official M-Sport driver. Wilson is crazy ! I don't understand his choice. What about Meeke ? or others drivers who make good things in RC2. Poor Evans...

[b3637853]

What about Evans?

Surprised about Camilli, I can't say i've seen anything that remarkable to deserve it but maybe Toyota pay.

I'm not a big fan of this 'throwing people in a WRCar before they are ready or proven' trend.

That's what I suspect as well. Toyota wants Camilli to gain experience. They don't have a car so the choice is M-Sport. And it is first team because they want Eric to have as best as possible situation to measure his performance.

[rallyfiend]

Camilli was never contracted to 'Toyota', but to TMG. And it is reasonably well-known now that TMG is unlikely to have any involvement in the new Toyota GAzoo Racing WRC team under Tommi - indeed the car they've been testing seems to be destined for the museum, so all past work lost...

[dodge33cymru]

Yeah, that's the weird part of it. So it has to make you ask, who is paying if not them?

[Lundefaret]

Tommi has used both Camilli and Sunninen in testing, and they are both Toyota drivers. Don't see any other logic to this than that Toyota has outbid the Evans family, and want Camilli primed to the number two driver spot in the 2017 Toyota line up. Camilli is a very interesting driver, and in my opinion his current potential is above that of Evans.

[EightGear]

Looks like he has a deal for more than one year so that makes any Toyota link unlikely. Colin Clark is on twitter suggesting FFSA may be paying for him.

[kiil]

I am not disagreeing on the potential of Camilli, but i really see no indication this has anything to do with Toyota. Why kick out the current (long term) payer, Evans with a one year drive for Camilli who you will be competing against next year?

[dodge33cymru]

Surprising but that was my other guess, they could surely be funding a lot of young drivers in France with that budget, but depends

a) if they're actually paying a large % of it or 'just' a contribution

and

b) if it's a specific request of a private FFSA backer



At least it should calm down EstWRC knowing Tanak has a drive and Evans doesn't, but I feel that's very unlucky on Evans. Hopefully he has a few outings planned in the R5, is involved in development of the 2017 car or there's more news to come.

I don't see why Bertelli would share a car. If he doesn't have to (and clearly he can afford to run a season himself), I don't understand why he'd pay for someone else.

[tommeke_B]

And what if Evans has to bring a certain amount of money for the complete season and he couldn't manage to do it? ;) Maybe we could see a B-team with Bertelli and Evans next year (as mentioned here before).

[dodge33cymru]

I don't believe Evans has ever brought money to the team, he works at their facility and was a personal project of Malcolm, but I understand it's not one he can afford with the extra events, improving R2 and R5 competition and hopefully a 2017 car development.

[WUff1]

Bertelli said that he´ll keep his typical brown livery - so probably no official M Sport driver, maybe similar to Kubica in 2014.

[AndyRAC]

Where would Evans get the money from?? UK drivers have no chance of raising sponsorship....

I would think Camilli has got funds from possibly both the FFSA & TMG....
The MSA won't and never have funded drivers.....

[focus206]

Very surprised by the choice of Malcolm... I would have kept Evans and/or Tanak for at least another season, no point in "raising" them just to drop them so early, it's not like M-Sport has any chance to win any championship anytime soon...

[EstWRC]

Well, he actually kept Tänak with Dmacks money. Im still in shock with this decision, i was 100% sure that its Ostberg/Evans. I cant wait now to see what speed Mads shows with Fiesta on gravel.

Wilson is a genius, he has now different drivers and different tyres to compare for future and of course he has MONEY now.

[EstWRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVDmfQOWIAApysD.png

[macebig]

It took 15 years to see a Frenchman back at M-Sport.It was half expected as there was an interview from Wilson a few time ago where he named Camilli as a very good upcoming driver.So,if they didnt keep Evans he was probably the first choice.Lets see how that works out.On paper,it looks a pretty good lineup with an experienced and consistent points scorer and a young gun eager to prove himself.

[Kalm]

From TMG facebook : "Good luck to Eric Camilli, who leaves TMG to join M-Sport as a full-time WRC driver for 2016. It has been a pleasure working with you this year and we wish you a fantastic future!"

Dosnt sound like they "sending" him to M-sport just for one year , sounds more like goodbye...

[Rallyper]

Quite unexpected having Camilli, but understandable from many points of view, of which some of them probably is correct.
Camilli brings money. Who´s paying will be clear during the year.
I think it´s a good choice. Not many to choose from.
Evans has reached his peak and will never win or make it any further speedwise.

Mads was expected in MSport, no sensation there.

[RS]

Maybe Evans will do the WRC2 programme with the new R5?

[kiil]

One other good reason to try Camilli, is that there is no other obvious contenders. Of the experienced and proven drivers available, there is none that will be able to challenge for wins. You have to take chances, just like Wilson do here with Camilli, we'll see if it pays off :-)

[Simmi]

Even as a Brit I genuinely don't mind this move. I think there's certainly going to be a bit of funding in there somewhere. FFSA makes sense. If you know it's not going to work out long-term with Evans then why persevere and M-Sport pay to do so? At a certain point you have to cut your losses and do something different.

Better to take a chance on a guy who might make it. Fair play to Wilson in that sense - he has given a lot of top drivers their first opportunity in the sport. People saying "why did he not sign Meeke?" I think that's pretty clear. Same with the other top talents who are locked up in deals.

One thing this has shown is just how many people are confused by the Toyota situation. Camilli had no contract with Tommi so no works Toyota contract. So he's walked away from testing a stillborn WRC car and that's about it. Great move for him - especially if he's got a multi-year deal.

My best guess is Elfyn stays in a testing role. Does some WRC2 rounds in the new R5. Hopefully some BRC rounds. Things like that and maybe gets a few rounds in a WRC car.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Disappointed for Evans... but another case of it being hard to make a consistent driver fast ...

Tanak showed he does have the speed, so he gets another chance to become consistent (with DMack)...

Just looking at Camilli's results and I dont see anything to show this great potential. Can anyone throw any light on this ?

[Andre Oliveira]

It is a kind of record? Only 33 rallies to be official driver?

EDIT: Ogier did it :)

[Rally Power]

Nice move from Wilson.

I don't think this choice is about money. In all these years Wilson picked a lot of young promising guys (Solberg, Duval, Hirvonen, Latvala, Tanak, Evans) with limited (or even none) funds, and give them the opportunity to shine at WRC top level.

Now it's Camilli time. Best luck to him!

[stefanvv]

It is a kind of record? Only 33 rallies to be official driver?

EDIT: Ogier did it :)

Yeah, but Ogier actually won something before that. That doesn't mean Camilli won't, very surprising nonetheless, let's see how it goes...

[RS]

@RS, Every current WRC-top driver was thrown in a WRC car before he had proven it to be worthy... How can you prove yourself without getting a chance for it? For Ogier people here said it was too early, for Neuville people here said it was too early, for Lefebvre the same, for Camilli the same...

In the case of Camilli and Lefebrve they haven't even proved themselves to be amongst the best in the next category down yet. In F1 it is common for GP2 backmarkers to make the jump but the top WRC drivers should be a pretty elite group.

[wrc45]

Of course it's about the money. The FFA will pay for everything. M-Sport needs the money to develope the 2017 WRC car. Even Mads is bringing money in.

I don't understand why people are saying that you can't compare Camilli in WRC2 because Fiesta R5 is so bad. Kajetanowicz won ERC with it.
In Spain, even Suninen was beating him on gravel. Indeed on tarmac Camilli was decent.
In Finland a lot of Fiesta R5 were faster than him. For example Pärn.
In Portugal he was a lot slower than Ketomaa and in the stages that went good for him, he lost 1s per km.
In Wales he had problems defending off Suninen who was with a old S2000 car

I have nothing against Camilli but to say that he was picked for he's raw speed and talent is baloney. The saddest part is that Evans doesn't have a seat anymore.

[bluuford]

The money arrived to Wilsons account.. sorry, the decision was probably made a long time ago already. Look at the M-Sport press releases from Spain and GB, Camilli was real star fro M-Sport there.

[Hartusvuori]

In the case of Camilli and Lefebrve they haven't even proved themselves to be amongst the best in the next category down yet. In F1 it is common for GP2 backmarkers to make the jump but the top WRC drivers should be a pretty elite group.

Such an understatement of Lefebvre's case. He won JWRC and JERC in 2014 and he's pace in R2 at the time was unmatched. He's move up to 4WD has been disappointing, but at least I have not given up on him yet.

[Hartusvuori]

Tommi has used both Camilli and Sunninen in testing, and they are both Toyota drivers. Don't see any other logic to this than that Toyota has outbid the Evans family, and want Camilli primed to the number two driver spot in the 2017 Toyota line up. Camilli is a very interesting driver, and in my opinion his current potential is above that of Evans.

Tommi Mäkinen Racing is still building up their first Yaris WRC chassises in Puuppola. They have not tested yet a metre. In interviews Tommi has said they will start testing in March the earliest. If someone knows better, correct me if I'm wrong.

[RS]

Such an understatement of Lefebvre's case. He won JWRC and JERC in 2014 and he's pace in R2 at the time was unmatched. He's move up to 4WD has been disappointing, but at least I have not given up on him yet.

I completely agree, I have not given up on him either. At least he had a balanced programme this year but generally i think drivers would benefit from some more experience before being thrown in to a full WRC programme. It didn't work out too well for Evans it seems.

[dimviii]

Colin Clark ‏@voiceofrally

No really surprise at M-Sport. Supporting two drivers with no major sponsor wasn't sustainable. Economics had to play a part in decision

[Allyc85]

Camilli is one hell of a surprise, can't say I have ever seen him and thought that he looked quick. Maybe he takes the French, smooth style to another level..

Really hoping Evans can get some kind of WRC deal for next season, and not have to step back to WRC2.

[Simmi]

I completely agree, I have not given up on him either. At least he had a balanced programme this year but generally i think drivers would benefit from some more experience before being thrown in to a full WRC programme. It didn't work out too well for Evans it seems.

It will be interesting to see what Citroen do with Lefebvre next year. He had an amazing programme this year for a young driver. A huge amount of seat time in various different series - which is good because he does need to gain that experience.

If he can do some events in PH Sport next year at WRC level he can continue to develop under the radar. I have to admit he's not convinced me - I don't really see a spark - but I am guilty sometimes of forgetting how young he is.

[Rally Power]

Of course it's about the money. The FFA will pay for everything. M-Sport needs the money to develope the 2017 WRC car. Even Mads is bringing money in.
I have nothing against Camilli but to say that he was picked for he's raw speed and talent is baloney. The saddest part is that Evans doesn't have a seat anymore.

FFSA didn't paid TMG to hire Camilli...

Camilli record is quite impressive, considering that two seasons ago he was doing local rallyes in a R1 car and 2015 was his first season in a 4wd car and in WRC.

So far he didn't win anything, but he's showing an amazing learning curve (as this season 2nd part proves). Hope next year he'll manage to fulfill all these positive indications.

Of course everyone feels sorry for Evans, but this year he was a bit disappointing. Fortunately, MSport already said he'll have something next year (WRC2+some WRC events?).

[mousti]

I can't believe people think FFSA funded this drive, maybe a small bit but not enough for the whole drive. I find that bullshit, said it to Colin Clark also that a federation can't pay that, he must acknowledge that Evans didn't do what he had to do. Eventhough he is from GB.

[spyros]

Camilli will be the surprise of the next year.

[AL14]

In the case of Camilli and Lefebrve they haven't even proved themselves to be amongst the best in the next category down yet. In F1 it is common for GP2 backmarkers to make the jump but the top WRC drivers should be a pretty elite group.
Lefebvre did win and proved himself in 2wd and with 4wd he was right behind Skodas and won Monte. When in a WRC he set very good times in his very first outing in Germany, while having some problems on gravel. The fact is that 13 years of Sebs dominance have raised too much our expectations regarding young drivers.

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

Elfyn= WRC2, BRC, and some WRC rounds..?

[EstWRC]

Camilli will be the surprise of the next year.

we will see but you need experience at this level and he hasn't got it that much and it can be very costly. Yes, his progess is somewhat impressive but i dont see that special thing in him. Cant wait the season to begin.

[bassist]

Shame for Elfyn, but cash is `King`. Cant really blame M Sport, but they have gone for a real wild card here!

[Mirek]

Shame for Elfyn, but cash is `King`. Cant really blame M Sport, but they have gone for a real wild card here!

Do You suggest that Camilli bought the seat? Do You have any proof for that? I'm really surprised with the choice of him as well though.