Rally Argentina 2015

[noel157]

what kind of live coverage is that? Just the first 5 curves and then back to the other driver?

Hopefully will concentrate on the leaders later.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

And now Neuville :D

[MartijnS]

Auch, Neuville!

[stefanvv]

Neuville has watched Mikkelsen

[noel157]

Exciting last stage...

[focus206]

Neuville!

[EightGear]

Holy shit.

[dimviii]

same rock? really?

[mousti]

Holy shit!

Verstuurd vanaf mijn Nexus 5 met Tapatalk

[EightGear]

What a stupid mistake.

[dimviii]

Prokop 4th overall?

[stefanvv]

Exciting last stage...

the whole rally has been like this, but people found it boring

[GigiGalliNo1]

Yup

[GigiGalliNo1]

the whole rally has been like this, but people found it boring

EXACTLY.

Horrible!

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDhzJarWoAAvorG.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDhzH8MWEAEI_dv.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDhy_j8WEAE23vm.jpg

[MartijnS]

Would be a Meeke thing to hit it too ;)

[stefanvv]

shhh

[stefanvv]

I didn't expect to watch wrc2 on the ps

[HaCo]

Oh nooooo :(

I hope that Meeke survives!

[EightGear]

Problem for Evans

[N.O.T]

problem for evans...

[noel157]

Evans in trouble.

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDh11POUkAI5s1U.jpg

[N.O.T]

has a safe lead over prokop so he just needs to finish to get the podium.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Well done Elfyn !! Podium !!

[focus206]

I suppose Evans has to make it through the road section?

[jonkka]

Yes, he has to.

[Miika]

Yes he can.

[N.O.T]

YES !!!! Well done Chris...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Yesss !!!!!!

[stefanvv]

Sunday afternoon drive to the victory. Congratulations to Meeke!

[Micke_VOC]

Great that Meeke wins !
And very nice drive from Evans on third.

[EightGear]

Fantastic, great emotions.

[noel157]

Nice word to his friend and mentor.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

'For Colin'.. class from Kris.

[Micke_VOC]

I got tears in my eyes now...

[MartijnS]

Very nice!

[AL14]

Great win by Meeke, very happy for him! Well done!

[EightGear]

That commentator, does he have a brain?

He thinks Ogier finished 9th....

[dimviii]

congrats Meeke for your maiden win,congrats also for not to forgot the man he helped him more.

[kirungi okwogera]

That commentator, does he have a brain?

He thinks Ogier finished 9th....

9th WRC I guess?

[macebig]

Despite being a Ford fan ,big congratulations to Kris for his victory.Colin is smiling from heavens...

[dimviii]

krismeeke.com ‏@krismeeke 3 λεπτάΠριν από 3 λεπτά
Thank you for believing! This one is for you.. �� #winners @rallyargentina @CitroenRacing @AbuDhabiRacing1

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDh4XyCWIAAR8me.jpg



Kris Meeke: "What can I say, it's been an exceptionally long road and the one guy who's done it most is not here. This one's for Colin"

[EightGear]

9th WRC I guess?
Yes but he thinks he will get points.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Well done meeke!

[EstWRC]

Congrats to top three! well deserved

[Fast Eddie WRC]

What an afternoon - a Brit wins in the WRC and my team Everton beat Man Utd 3-0 !! :D

[Rallyper]

What a very very well deserved win for Kris M!!!!

[focus206]

Congratulations to Meeke! And also to Citroen for this 1-2 and a quite trouble-free weekend. 2 Brits on the podium, first time since 2002-2003?

[bluuford]

Great drive by Meeke! Congradulation! So, if I am not mistaken then Tänak should collect final drivers point? I remember from the regulations that national cars are in the general classification but they cannot collect points. So, ot is 11th and Villagra with national car should be infront of him?

[RJM]

Awesome Kris and Elfyn!

[noel157]

One happy team: https://twitter.com/CitroenRacing/status/592356685022388224

[Allyc85]

Amazing result for Meeke, Evans and British rallying general! :D

Always said I just wanted to see Kris given a proper chance in a WRC car, and while I have had my doubts at times, he truly has shown he can do it! Well done to Citroen for standing by him. Hopefully this gives him the confidence to kick on, and be a consistent force!

Get in there!! Buzzing! :D

[bassist]

Yes,yes,yes.yes Brilliant result for Kris/Paul and Elfyn/Daniel.

[WUff1]

Congrats to Kris Meeke!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

This is so good to see...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDh9o-7WoAA2TXU.jpg:large

Even better than this.. ;)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDh-GlLW0AENRyz.jpg

[rage82]

Very happy for Kris and Paul also, nice to see what a man can achieve through hard and consistent work. Hope to see him regularly on the podium in the next rallies.

[N.O.T]

only tennis is allowed from girl sports in here... no pics of chav sports and ladyboys allowed... we are prejudiced against them around here.

[dimviii]

Ogier 84
Ostberg 51
Mikkelsen 47
Evans 41
Meeke 35
Neuville 35
Sordo 30
Prokop 24
Latvala 19
Tänak 12
Paddon 10
Al-Qassimi 8


VW 103
Citroën 85
Hyundai 85
M-Sport 71
Jipocar 32
VW II 15
Hyundai N 9
FWRT 3

[bluuford]

Ogier 84
Ostberg 51
Mikkelsen 47
Evans 41
Meeke 35
Neuville 35
Sordo 30
Prokop 24
Latvala 19
Tänak 12
Paddon 10
Al-Qassimi 8


VW 103
Citroën 85
Hyundai 85
M-Sport 71
Jipocar 32
VW II 15
Hyundai N 9
FWRT 3

NATIONAL/REGIONAL CARS (NOT VALID IN EUROPE)
4.4.1 Cars homologated or approved by the ASN of the organising country will be permitted to take part
in WRC events outside Europe, without eligibility to score Championship points.
4.4.2 Prior to the rally, the organiser will propose to the FIA a list of cars for approval.
4.4.3 Drivers entered in the national class shall always use a different entry form.

So, who gets the final point?

[Rallyper]

Meeke has showed he can do it. Now he´s one of the stars. Until this weeekende he hasn´t proven much. Only partly fast. But now. Very good effort and a deserved win for KM!!

I guess much more to come from him and other drivers next to Ogier in the future.

[Ucci]

Well done Kris...Loeb's era is finnaly broken at Citro team.
I hope they will celebrate it propperly....
No VW in top ten! Also something new. At the most challenging rally the strongest car so far showed the weakest form....

[N.O.T]

Useless Latvala is useless...

lets hope the sport gets rids of him soon.

[N.O.T]

Meeke has showed he can do it. Now he´s one of the stars. Until this weeekende he hasn´t proven much. Only partly fast. But now. Very good effort and a deserved win for KM!!

I guess much more to come from him and other drivers next to Ogier in the future.

He proved he can win an event he leads by a VERY comfortable margin... nothing more.

He can now build onto this or return to his ways and join the long list of dogs that won a single event due to other peoples misfortunes... I really hope this was his breakthrough and he now becomes more constant, he will not win any events against the VW because the citroen is nothing but if he manages to keep tha speed he has without the crashes it will be a step forward.

[rp]

Useless Latvala is useless...

lets hope the sport gets rids of him soon.

Don´t worry. He will continue with Volkswagen also in 2016...

[stefanvv]

He proved he can win an event he leads by a VERY comfortable margin... nothing more.

Yes, but he has built this margin step-by-step. I can't imagine the psychological pressure while You have failed many times. It is giant leap for Meeke I believe.

[RS]

Useless Latvala is useless...

lets hope the sport gets rids of him soon.

He's one of the fastest drivers out there, he just needs more time to prove himself.

[RS]

Don´t worry. He will continue with Volkswagen also in 2016...

Does he already have a contract? If he can't beat Mikelssen this year I don't see the point.

[N.O.T]

He's one of the fastest drivers out there, he just needs more time to prove himself.

he already had 10+ years... enough is enough.

but maybe daddy will put the hand in his pocket again to keep him where he is.

[N.O.T]

Yes, but he has built this margin step-by-step. I can't imagine the psychological pressure while You have failed many times. It is giant leap for Meeke I believe.

you believe a lot of things... that is your main problem... you BELIEVE too much and KNOW too little.

[macebig]

If JML continues his current form he will be out of VW at the end of the year.The german heads will be more than happy to make Mikkelsen No 2 and push another driver (Wiegand,Lappi?) as No 3.

[N.O.T]

If JML continues his current form he will be out of VW at the end of the year.The german heads will be more than happy to make Mikkelsen No 2 and push another driver (Wiegand,Lappi?) as No 3.

MIkkelsen should already be in the factory car with full support.

[Miika]

He's one of the fastest drivers out there, he just needs more time to prove himself.

Yes, add another ten full seasons and 150-or-so WRC starts and we will surely see him in the points more often.

..

If Neuville is available for 2016, go for it.

[N.O.T]

If Neuville is available for 2016, go for it.

Neuville is heading the same way Latavla is now... way overated.

[stefanvv]

you believe a lot of things... that is your main problem... you BELIEVE too much and KNOW too little.

I don't believe in anything extraordinary here. I'm well aware he had no chance against Ogier & Mikkelsen without problems. But he has shown weaknesses before even in this situation, so it is a progress.

[stefanvv]

he just needs more time to prove himself.

is this irony or sarcasm?

[stefanvv]

If JML continues his current form he will be out of VW at the end of the year.The german heads will be more than happy to make Mikkelsen No 2 and push another driver (Wiegand,Lappi?) as No 3.

Yes, sooner or later they may have to come to this decision. This year is turning into disaster for him

[mousti]

LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEvQ6Q4M6IE

[EstWRC]

How long is Latvala's contract with VW? i think Neuville himself doesnt want to move to VW, he is happy with Hyundais progress.

[N.O.T]

he is happy with Hyundais progress.

it would be interesting to know if feelings are mutual the other way around.

[AL14]

Neuville is heading the same way Latavla is now... way overated.

According to you WRC should be a competition with 1 manufacturer and 2 or 3 drivers in total. A bit senseless.

[stefanvv]

he is happy with Hyundais progress.

Is that a fact, or just assumption?

[Rallyper]

Mikkelsen did make him self a fool today, seeing with your usual eyes N.O.T. But still he is soon no 2 in VW? That doesn´t make sense to me. He and Neuville should be equal useless dogs judged by you. JML had a car who let him down this time.

[stefanvv]

Mikkelsen did make him self a fool today, seeing with your usual eyes N.O.T. But still he is soon no 2 in VW? That doesn´t make sense to me. He and Neuville should be equal useless dogs judged by you. JML had a car who let him down this time.

Ok, but did he showed better pace until then? I think no

[RS]

If JML continues his current form he will be out of VW at the end of the year.The german heads will be more than happy to make Mikkelsen No 2 and push another driver (Wiegand,Lappi?) as No 3.

Wiegand has gone.

Maybe JML could head to Toyota but i guess that really would be his last chance.

[N.O.T]

Mikkelsen did make him self a fool today, seeing with your usual eyes N.O.T. But still he is soon no 2 in VW? That doesn´t make sense to me. He and Neuville should be equal useless dogs judged by you. JML had a car who let him down this time.

Mikkelsen is at the start of his career... for now he can afford to make all these mistakes.

Neuville starts to be worryingly reckless to be honest.

[MJW]

Wiegand has gone.

Maybe JML could head to Toyota but i guess that really would be his last chance.
You are probably closer to the mark with that statement about going to Toyota, remember the famous manager has come out of retirement and Jari Matti is a Timo Juohki driver.

[EstWRC]

Is that a fact, or just assumption?

cant remember where i read or heard it but i remember very well that he said that. this of course doesnt mean he doesnt go to VW some day.

[stefanvv]

It's been a tough rally, we can draw some conclusion of. I'm really glad for Meeke he had finally made it, this should be a real consolation and a proper confidence boost in his further career. Ostberg showed also good pace and consistency, Evans showed only consistency. The rest - well, nothing too much to judge in positive side, except Ogier, too early out to be in the game.

[dimviii]

didnt liked that...

Jari-Matti Latvala ‏@JariMattiWRC 2 λεπτάΠριν από 2 λεπτά
This was two minutes after I said that I was offering the drinks… ;-) #Busy #NotEnoughPesos #SS11

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDig1Z7WIAE1ice.jpg

[dimviii]

borl video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYe7Tg21Vvg&feature=youtu.be&a

[RAS007]

It's been a tough rally, we can draw some conclusion of. I'm really glad for Meeke he had finally made it, this should be a real consolation and a proper confidence boost in his further career. Ostberg showed also good pace and consistency, Evans showed only consistency. The rest - well, nothing too much to judge in positive side, except Ogier, too early out to be in the game.

Agreed. Really happy for Kris. It's been a long time coming, hopefully more to come. Good result for Mads too.

[Rallyper]

Mikkelsen is at the start of his career... for now he can afford to make all these mistakes.

Neuville starts to be worryingly reckless to be honest.

You have to do your homework mate. Mikkelsen has driven WRC now and then for almost ten years.

[N.O.T]

You have to do your homework mate. Mikkelsen has driven WRC now and then for almost ten years.

that "now and then" makes a difference...

[stefanvv]

Mikkelsen seem to have the famous "five years plan". Tried out at first, understood it is not for him at the moment, came back a step and did a proper job. Also I think there was some heavy crash in his early career which has discouraged him a bit..... So perhaps we can expect much more from him next year, if he doesn't progress then, then......

[Co-FIN]

that "now and then" makes a difference...

Mikkelsen is improving. But in start of his career, really? http://www.ewrc-results.com/profile.php?p=68


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[stefanvv]

He obviously can't be compared to Loeb.....

[N.O.T]

Mikkelsen is improving. But in start of his career, really? http://www.ewrc-results.com/profile.php?p=68


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

yes, his career started 2 years ago... he maybe rallying for a long time but he is at the start of his real career.

[Rallyper]

that "now and then" makes a difference...

Really? Maybe in your world when it suits you. Take facts instead and use them for what it is. Mikkelsen has been in the game for a long time, but for sure he is not bad. Neither is Meeke, JML, Ostberg...

[stefanvv]

No one is bad, the question is who is progressing and who is not.....

[AL14]

Someone in this forum said that it's not that other drivers are crashing to much but it's Ogier (and Loeb before him) that is hugely talented that crashes too less. He said that before Loeb world champions crashed everytime but they took titles anyway.

Of course no one of the drivers mentioned earlier should retire from the sport or is someone who doesn't belong to WRC. The result would be Ogier driving alone with one or two young boys that would retire after 3 years if they don't beat him.

[stefanvv]

Someone in this forum said that it's not that other drivers are crashing to much but it's Ogier (and Loeb before him) that is hugely talented that crashes too less. He said that before Loeb world champions crashed everytime but they took titles anyway.

It is not about the crashes, it is about to know what You want from particular event and to get it, it is not every time You can win it. Of course if You are more ambitious than Your abilities, with bigger competition You would crash more..... Ogier is really tough competitor though, probably even more than Loeb:)

[AL14]

It is not about the crashes, it is about to know what You want from particular event and to get it, it is not every time You can win it. Of course if You are more ambitious than Your abilities, with bigger competition You would crash more..... Ogier is really tough competitor though, probably even more than Loeb:)

Yes but the discussion was about people like Ostberg, Neuville, JML and others that are useless dogs or have to retire...leaving de facto Ogier and Mikkelsen alone. lol

[N.O.T]

Ostberg and Latvala must go... Neuville not yet. As of Meeke we must wait a bit more to decide.

[stefanvv]

Yes but the discussion was about people like Ostberg, Neuville, JML and others that are useless dogs

Useless for what? Championship title? Yes perhaps 99% certainty. Anyway some just have to fill the numbers.... May be it doesn't apply to Neuville, but only if he changes the team with Toyota or other....

[jonkka]

So, who gets the final point?

Tanak. BTW: Thanks for pointing out that rule, I had forgotten it and cursed those non-homologated cars in the classification.

[jonkka]

Why wrc.com doesn't have Mikkelsen's time for SS11? He retired at SS12, did he not?

[bluuford]

Why wrc.com doesn't have Mikkelsen's time for SS11? He retired at SS12, did he not?

Maybe the hit was so strong that the data disappeared.. he also disappeared from the last stage splittimes list. Same for Fucs. Mikkelsen time was 13:09.8 on SS11

[Rallyper]

Ostberg and JML replaced by whom? In my world they are competitiors on the highest level in WRC and can´t be replaced on other conditions they are "sick dogs". And that is stated by only one person I know.

[N.O.T]

JML by mikelsen... Ostberg by anyone, they can hire a stray dog in his place.

[Rallyper]

Hehehe....

You should be teamleader for sure.

[Karukera]

Refreshing results for Kris, Paul and Citroën.
Very good for Ireland, Éirinn go Brách ! :beer:

[b3637853]

Ostberg and JML replaced by whom? In my world they are competitiors on the highest level in WRC and can´t be replaced on other conditions they are "sick dogs". And that is stated by only one person I know.

Agreed. Ostberg is probably in his prime now, he fights for podium in every rally, probably except tarmac ones. Obviously he is not driver you get excited about, but the combination of pace, reliability, consistency and experience is at very high level. Latvala is great driver, but he lacks character and he has really fragile mentality.

[AL14]

Ostberg is second in driver ranking, Latvala is fragile but still one of the fastest. No reason to go away from WRC for both of them.

[Mintexmemory]

Would someone like to tell me by what criterion Mikkelsen should replace Latvala?
Is he ever quicker on like for like performance over the same stage in an undamaged car? Has he won a WRC event before he was 23? Does he ever really threaten to win without being gifted positions (as I see it only 1 second place on merit so far, and so he should in the best car available!). I believe he is underperforming in relation to the advantage the Polo gives him, just as much as JML - the difference is one has a mental block, the other just isn't quite fast enough. Mikkelsen may eventually win a WRC event (Kris has given everyone hope) but as for WDC - not a hope while Le Seb Nouveau still has an appetite. Only a few more years by the infallible NOT criteria before Mikkelsen has to be re-classified as 'canum infirmum' when a new kid on the block comes along
Sorry Mikkelsen is only ever an outstanding success with teenage girls (hell, they were noisy at Digne les Bains on last years Monte re-group!).

[N.O.T]

i could list a few reasons but you do not have the ability to understand them.

[Mintexmemory]

i could list a few reasons but you do not have the ability to understand them.

While exceedingly humble in the presence of such a super-brain (why the hell aren't you running the FIA by now?) I really would like to be the benficiary of whatever cogent argument you can muster that doesn't rely on sub-infantile name calling and does muster some hard facts to support your sweeping generalisations.
# Just saying!

[N.O.T]

ok then...

the problem with Ostberg and Latvala is not that they are not fast/consistent/handsome... the main problem is that they do not show any adaptation skills... there is absolutely no way for ostberg to become faster and there is absolutely no way for latvala to learn how to drive...

Mikelsen on the other hand is at the start of his career and worth the full support of VW to prove himself that he can be a future star and not another latvala... same goes for neuville and other youngsters, they might be reckless/slow/ugly but they might improve, a thing that will never happen to latvala or ostberg.

to put it simply so you can try and understand it...

you run a bussiness... you have an employee who is working on the field for 20 years, he is a good guy and he knows the job but every two weeks he presses a button with a big sign above it saying DO NOT TOUCH THIS BUTTON YOU WORTHLESS DOG which results in the bussiness to have some loses.... now here comes a new employer who tries hard and is good enough... maybe not as good as the one you have... he also presses the button due to curiosity but he shows sings that he might not do it in the future.... which one you keep ?

[dimviii]

krismeeke
I am thankful for all the support! No words to describe this feeling...

https://instagram.com/p/1-SlpfLN2z/

watch a nice spot at 0,04(video includes Mikelsen and Neuvilles crashes)
https://youtu.be/uHm7wWg4aMQ

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDmKum5WMAATrq0.jpg

[Mintexmemory]

...

the problem with Ostberg and Latvala is not that they are not fast/consistent/handsome... the main problem is that they do not show any adaptation skills... there is absolutely no way for ostberg to become faster and there is absolutely no way for latvala to learn how to drive...

Mikelsen on the other hand is at the start of his career and worth the full support of VW to prove himself that he can be a future star and not another latvala...
to put it simply so you can try and understand it...


Ok - as we are in full patronising mode I will spell out the flaws in your bland assertions quoted above

Latvala has shown considerable adaptation in his ability to drive on tarmac in a period where nordic drivers have been at a disadvantage in that aspect.
His only error was to join a team where he can never feel No1, loved, valued respected even. Just as Ogier could never have made Citroen his team and just how Mikko suffered from taking the No 2 to Loeb position in 2012. He still has time and ability

Andreas Mikkelsen has enjoyed VAG favoured son status for 4 full seasons prior to 2015
2011 & 2012 IRC winner with considerable VAG suport (also Italian Rally Championship)
2012 VW training year in Skoda to familiarise himself with the WRC stages - so it wasn't surprising that when Ogier wasn't testing set ups he was able to show young Andreas what an S2000 is really capable of!
2013 & 2014 6 Podiums so far - none of which have ever been gained by challenging for the win. He is the Vulture of VW picking up podium places through the opposition trying to beat Ogier (including Latvala) instead of contenting themselves in keeping ahead of Mikkelsen - which Neuville, Ostberg, Meeke and Latvala all can do.
He really should have won an event by now if he was ever going to develop a WDC mentality.
Still despite his very average perfomances in a very good car, you clearly have the hots for him - he's a good looking man - you'll have to fight the teenage girls though!

[N.O.T]

Note to self: Next time do not bother.

[Rallyper]

Ok - as we are in full patronising mode I will spell out the flaws in your bland assertions quoted above

Latvala has shown considerable adaptation in his ability to drive on tarmac in a period where nordic drivers have been at a disadvantage in that aspect.
His only error was to join a team where he can never feel No1, loved, valued respected even. Just as Ogier could never have made Citroen his team and just how Mikko suffered from taking the No 2 to Loeb position in 2012. He still has time and ability

Andreas Mikkelsen has enjoyed VAG favoured son status for 4 full seasons prior to 2015
2011 & 2012 IRC winner with considerable VAG suport (also Italian Rally Championship)
2012 VW training year in Skoda to familiarise himself with the WRC stages - so it wasn't surprising that when Ogier wasn't testing set ups he was able to show young Andreas what an S2000 is really capable of!
2013 & 2014 6 Podiums so far - none of which have ever been gained by challenging for the win. He is the Vulture of VW picking up podium places through the opposition trying to beat Ogier (including Latvala) instead of contenting themselves in keeping ahead of Mikkelsen - which Neuville, Ostberg, Meeke and Latvala all can do.
He really should have won an event by now if he was ever going to develop a WDC mentality.
Still despite his very average perfomances in a very good car, you clearly have the hots for him - he's a good looking man - you'll have to fight the teenage girls though!

+10

[janvanvurpa]

Note to self: ANY time do not bother.


We could only wish.. We'll struggle on and the Whirled Rally Chmpignonskit will muddle along without you.
Don't let the door hit you on your way out!

[AL14]

Speaking again about the rally I want to make amend.
I've said the rally was too rough for the cars and I was disappointed about all the drivers having problems but I have changed my mind. Rally is not only about pure speed, but also endurance, and drivers skills include also the ability to bring the car home setting fast times at the same time. When the rally finished yesterday I felt satisfied about it and I've understood that I was wrong.
So, hope there will be more like this ;)

[janvanvurpa]

Speaking again about the rally I want to make amend.
I've said the rally was too rough for the cars and I was disappointed about all the drivers having problems but I have changed my mind. Rally is not only about pure speed, but also endurance, and drivers skills include also the ability to bring the car home setting fast times at the same time. When the rally finished yesterday I felt satisfied about it and I've understood that I was wrong.
So, hope there will be more like this ;)


Well if you think about it---aside from my old Saab rally car with a FLAT FLOOR, there's very little chance of anybody's foot being on the gas pedal other than the driver. because of the big tunnel...(I HAVE had big size 46 boots on top of my foot a couple of times---very exciting----took a while for me to realise and find words:eek: )

So it follows is its only the driver's foot, then he has control..
He can gas it full or




OR!





OR!!!!!


He can occasionally actually LIFT.....

Really! Its true! The driver CAN---when needed---lift a bit or a lot....

Its particularly ironic that now when the gravel cars have such long travel suspension---who know REALLY what travel they have?? not about xxx, but definite "The have 320mm" type answer----

but just when they have such travel AVAILABLE, the push is to smooth sprinty type events...

So yeah a rally should test the CAR and the driver's ability to drive the car IN THAT particular event..


All us old dogs seem to agree that it was once a part of the fascination with rally that the conditions in each event---National or European or World series were different character....
variety...It meant it took a different kind of driver than just somebody who could go pretty good after tons of practice and notes and in short duration...

[dimviii]

Ogier is really tough competitor though, probably even more than Loeb:)
explain your conclusion please.

[AL14]

explain your conclusion please.

As soon as I read that sentence yesterday I thought: "dimvii will not like this". :D

[stefanvv]

explain your conclusion please.

I'll try very simple - He seem to be more unappealable in his victories, despite larger competition. But I have a second thought it might not be enough.....:)

[N.O.T]

explain your conclusion please.

you caught the bait... i expected better from you...

[N.O.T]

I'll try very simple - He seem to be more unappealable in his victories, despite larger competition. But I have a second thought it might not be enough.....:)

try harder.

[stefanvv]

you caught the bait... i expected better from you...

No N.O.T. there is no bait here. Just a personal impression how the things are going in WRC.....

EDIT: as of Your last post - no, I'm not going to jump into another Loeb vs the rest discussion, it is quite pointless and there cannot be true measure achieved any time..... any time.

[N.O.T]

No N.O.T. there is no bait here. Just a personal impression how the things are going in WRC.....

see above kid... you are just a one trick pony.

[stefanvv]

see above kid... you are just a one trick pony.

:D:D:D Don't try too hard to attract more Loeb fans on Your side. You will never succeed on my part:D:D:D

[dimviii]

I'll try very simple -
if it is so simple,it will be easy to proove it.


He seem to be more unappealable in his victories,
what do you mean unappealable? how you measure it?


despite larger competition.
larger competition? last 2 years you have seen better/faster drivers than last 10 years from Loeb era? who are they?

[dimviii]

you caught the bait... i expected better from you...

i have to give him for 100th time the chance to proove it.Last 99 times he failed.

[N.O.T]

he cannot prove anything... he only believes things and has personal opinions and assumptions... to prove something you must know some facts.

if you want to have a discussion with a person that doesn't know anything be my guest.

[stefanvv]

@dimviii, I said I'm not going to try to prove anything. I'm just expressing my impressions on a public forum.... No need to prove anything, even if I wish, I can't do that before insult someone's preference

[dimviii]

@dimviii, I said I'm not going to try to prove anything. I'm just expressing my impressions on a public forum.... No need to prove anything, even if I wish, I can't do that before insult someone's preference

you failed for 100th time.
rallies like all sports you can measure who is the best,which team is better etc.
We are not talking about Gods or miracles.

[stefanvv]

you failed for 100th time.

Believe me, it is fine by me!

[dimviii]

Believe me, it is fine by me!

no problem if its ok for you.

[stefanvv]

no problem if its ok for you.

yeah, sure. I know I don't count anything though;)

[stefanvv]

Well if you think about it---aside from my old Saab rally car with a FLAT FLOOR, there's very little chance of anybody's foot being on the gas pedal other than the driver. because of the big tunnel...(I HAVE had big size 46 boots on top of my foot a couple of times---very exciting----took a while for me to realise and find words:eek: )

So it foloow is its onlt the driver's foot, then he has control..
He can gas it full or




OR!





OR!!!!!


He can ocasionally actualy LIFT.....

Really! Its true! The driver CAN---when needed---lift a bit or a lot....

Its particularly ironic that now when the gravel cars have such long travel suspesnion---who know REALLY what travel they have?? not about xxx, but definite "The have 320mm" type answer----

but just when they have such travel AVAILABLE, the push is to smooth sprinty type events...

Yeah, that is a big problem as the last rally showed. The drivers are so used to sprint type of events, but on the other side everybody aside are romantically attached to more classic rallies endurance type of events. The rally is about ADAPTATION to the circumstances. I don't know why it is so hard for the current generation of rally drivers, for sure if someone puts them into 80's, they'll do just fine as the heroes of that time.

[EightGear]

I see you 3 are at it again. Thank God it's only the 5th time.

[dimviii]

yeah, sure. I know I don't count anything though;)

there are so many times you have failed to proove it,so i can understant you.

[stefanvv]

I see you 3 are at it again. Thank God it's only the 5th time.

me too. It's been a relief

[Rallyper]

What are they fighting/arguing about actually?

(Meeke, Ostberg and Evans obviously adapted best to circumstances of all current drivers)

[stefanvv]

What are they fighting/arguing about actually?

I have no idea.

[AL14]

If you guys do not argue about Ogier-Loeb the only topic left in this forum is Kubica. So stefanvv I hope you don't give up like you are doing today... ;)

[stefanvv]

If you guys do not argue about Ogier-Loeb the only topic left in this forum is Kubica. So stefanvv I hope you don't give up like you are doing today... ;)

I've expressed my opinion about Kubica a few times. It is not up to me no more

[AL14]

I've expressed my opinion about Kubica a few times. It is not up to me no more

I meant you have to keep talking about Ogier/Loeb cause otherwise we will talk only about Kubica (but I was just joking of course ;) )

[stefanvv]

I meant you have to keep talking about Ogier/Loeb cause otherwise we will talk only about Kubica (but I was just joking of course ;) )

I don't feel the need to, I'm sorry:)

[dimviii]

Sordo overshoot
https://youtu.be/uK_9UQx_Hms

[christy but]

great stuff from kris and paul also marshall on wrc2 win and chris Patterson on 6th over all..great stuff from the small sod called ireland

[bluuford]

By the way, this shot is taken on the same jump 2 minutes after Paddon crash:

https://fbcdn-photos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-0/11146554_451633898325464_1785531224151757220_n.jpg ?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=642cbf66a877d15b2f6e85f6404c873e&oe=559C8AA3&__gda__=1436380443_3568ce03ac2af2219b614cce468b60a 9

Good that there were no spectators on the road

[eib1]

By the way, this shot is taken on the same jump 2 minutes after Paddon crash:

https://fbcdn-photos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-0/11146554_451633898325464_1785531224151757220_n.jpg ?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=642cbf66a877d15b2f6e85f6404c873e&oe=559C8AA3&__gda__=1436380443_3568ce03ac2af2219b614cce468b60a 9

Good that there were no spectators on the road


https://www.facebook.com/ralli.ee/videos/835437853190973/?video_source=pages_finch_main_video
@ 3:00

[dimviii]

krismeeke.com ‏@krismeeke
Reaching for the sky!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDs7vvwWEAEuwZo.jpg

[dimviii]

Eze (WRC) ‏@EzeGiordanoOK
a genius @thierryneuville when staying with us and to have a good time after having abandoned @OfficialWRC

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDub622WIAA_tQE.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDub6IqWMAEbeJV.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Waited a looooooooooooooong time to see covers like this ! :)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDw6cXcXIAANrpS.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDwL8KSWMAA9-4R.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Final word to Meeke:

'We can’t forget Colin McRae. To be honest, during the final stage I was fine emotionally – everything was under control. But then when I got out of the car at the stop control and saw the end-of-stage commentators in tears, it did open up the emotions a bit.

It was something very natural for me to dedicate the win to Colin, because he took me right from the beginning – or when I’d only done a few rallies – and put me through all the difficult steps into the British championship and Junior World Championship. Without that support back then I simply wouldn’t have had a career in rallying. It’s not just Colin, too – the whole McRae family have been fantastic. Colin’s wife Alison, his father Jimmy and brother Alister all took me into Lanark and made me feel part of the whole family.

I have many things to thank them all for but this one definitely had to be dedicated to Colin.'

[Kielder]

Many hours together behind this hug. Many hours trying to make the Mini a winning car. Nobody better than Sordo knows that the wait is well worth it.

http://i58.tinypic.com/4j7xb9.jpg

[Luis Pacheco]

According to the daily "Carlos Paz Vivo" the lawyer of one of the injured spectators filed in court a complaint that demanded the opening of an investigation, and the withdrawal of the passport to the driver of the Hyundai until their responsibilities are cleared.

http://www.sportmotores.com/portal/!site.go?publishing=332&p=332.20055&id=42243

[N.O.T]

Low life argentinians... no surprise there.

[stefanvv]

Wow, brilliant comment again.

[Zeakiwi]

They are a bit slow, Paddon is back in NZ for Rally Otago.

[tommeke_B]

Let's hope it doesn't cause any issues for Paddon when/if he returns to Argentina next year. In case of any accident caused by a crash only the organizers and spectators themselves are to blame. Everyone knows the drivers take risks and there will be crashes.

[AL14]

Let's hope it doesn't cause any issues for Paddon when/if he returns to Argentina next year. In case of any accident caused by a crash only the organizers and spectators themselves are to blame. Everyone knows the drivers take risks and there will be crashes.
I think Argentina should hope to have a round in the WRC next year.

[bluuford]

Do not worrly about it. It is the rally with probably the highest number of spectators.

[AL14]

Do not worrly about it. It is the rally with probably the highest number of spectators.

As a rally fan I hope it will stay but if I were in charge to decide if they have to organize the rally next year I don't know if I would give them the opportunity. It is unforgivable that they let all those people in that spot, in a crowded area and in the exit of a corner after a jump. Steward were there, 3 metres from them...

[CWJ]

It is unforgivable that they let all those people in that spot, in a crowded area and in the exit of a corner after a jump. Steward were there, 3 metres from them...

That place was not so danger and no jump before. After cutting a big stone out in the first loop, many drivers were surprised in secons run. Unfortunately the notes still said "full". Btw I didnt see many stewards at the event. Mostly police man without much experience.

[rayh_mx]

Btw I didnt see many stewards at the event. Mostly police man without much experience.

Police inexperienced? with 26 international rallies? The area was marked with red tape and even a novice spectator follows that there can not be installed to watching cars at high speed.

I read the note and said that the case as a normal traffic accident is treated. If that were the case, everyone should be fine for speeding competitors.

Finally, what can blame Padon? having left the track on purpose? I think anyone in their right mind would say that the pilot who is vying to hit people do, do you?

[stefanvv]

Police inexperienced? with 26 international rallies? The area was marked with red tape and even a novice spectator follows that there can not be installed to watching cars at high speed.

I read the note and said that the case as a normal traffic accident is treated. If that were the case, everyone should be fine for speeding competitors.

Finally, what can blame Padon? having left the track on purpose? I think anyone in their right mind would say that the pilot who is vying to hit people do, do you?

Paddon did the right thing trying to straighten the car. If it has rolled over, the damage could be much worse.

[AL14]

That place was not so danger and no jump before. After cutting a big stone out in the first loop, many drivers were surprised in secons run. Unfortunately the notes still said "full". Btw I didnt see many stewards at the event. Mostly police man without much experience.

Are you one of the spectators? :)

[moto99]

https://www.facebook.com/ralli.ee/videos/835437853190973/?video_source=pages_finch_main_video
@ 3:00
crashed car, no crew, no OK sign and he drives past without checking
what a rally spirit...

nice how the fans flipped the car with the crew inside :)

[N.O.T]

crashed car, no crew, no OK sign and he drives past without checking
what a rally spirit...

nice how the fans flipped the car with the crew inside :)

no need to stop with so many people around... if something was serious the marshals would have signaled him to stop earlier...

OK sign is usually used when the accident happens in a remote place.

[moto99]

there was very need to stop him or rather slow him down - because of so many people there and he almost crashed in the Hyudai
no signals from marshals or has he ignored them? I see at least one man slowing him down on this video (but rather late)
and with people in hospital it was a rather serious crash

[N.O.T]

but it was not drivers duty to slow down it was the marshals job to slow him down.

[Munkvy]

but it was not drivers duty to slow down it was the marshals job to slow him down.

If there is a car off the road, no crew visible and no OK sign out, you should stop. How can you tell the crew are ok without that?

As far as I am aware (I have only ever competed in rallies in NZ, so other countries maybe different), it is a universal standard that no OK sign = stop to ascertain crew are ok. Of course I imagine this doesn't always mean people do that, in the heat of competition it is easy to miss that.

[N.O.T]

If every driver stopped when they saw a car on the side of road without an ok sign then there would be no rallies...

Its a marshals job to indicate if the rally needs to be halted when they are close to the incident. The ok sign is used when the accident happens in remote locations.

[bluuford]

And the whole New-Zealand is remote place ;-)

[N.O.T]

And the whole New-Zealand is remote place ;-)

that explains a lot...

[janvanvurpa]

If every driver stopped when they saw a car on the side of road without an ok sign then there would be no rallies...

Its a marshals job to indicate if the rally needs to be halted when they are close to the incident. The ok sign is used when the accident happens in remote locations.


Actually that's NOT correct...If you were actually knowledgable about rally instead of being a frustrated angy armchair wannabe---but never will be anything----you would know in many places it is a long long long term RULE requiring a car arriving on the scene of a stopped car on a SS to stop if there is no OK sign clearly displayed...

NOT saying that crews follow the other rule which REQUIRES a car that is stopped and doesn't need medical assistance to display the OK sign---and triangles----- but its pretty clear, you don't see an OK sign you stop and assess the need for--or NOT---medical assistance...

IF you knew anything---again you do NOT---you know that there are often miles of SS where there are very very few marshals, and evn less in direct radio communication with Rally HQ..
Simple logic and experience of doing 1 rally would bring the realisation that the FIRST line of defense is the immediately following car/crew....not some marshal somewhere with no means to communicate with the FOLLOWING car...


But you're NOT a rally guy, you've NOT done any rallys, you are merely a frustrated lab-rat in a basement and full of well justified self hate......

Have you considered maybe gracing someplace where just arguing and insulting the entire world is the whole point of the forum?
Shirley you would be happier where reality isn't a factor, just whatever you want to make up and scream about how stupid everybody is till your hearts content..:uhoh:

Try it.....

[AL14]

I don't know if it is a written rule, I don't think so actually, but I could be wrong. In any case I find weird that Evans had to stop with hundreds of people and several marshalls there to help.

[Mk2 RS2000]

And the whole New-Zealand is remote place ;-)

And your point is ?

[Mk2 RS2000]

Extracted from the 2015 FIA World Rally Championship Sporting Regulations

40. COMPETITOR SAFETY
40.1 EQUIPMENT OF THE CREWS
Whenever a car is in motion on a special stage, the crew must wear homologated crash helmets, all required safety clothing and equipment in compliance with Appendix L Chapter III - Drivers’ Equipment as intended by the equipment manufacturer and have their safety belts fastened. Any infringement will be penalised by the clerk of the course who may also refer the matter to the Stewards.

40.2 SOS/OK SIGNS
40.2.1 Each competing car shall carry a red “SOS” sign and on the reverse a green “OK” sign measuring at least 42 cm x 29.7 cm (A3).
40.2.2 In the case of an accident where urgent medical attention is required, when possible the red “SOS” sign should be immediately displayed to the following cars and to any helicopter attempting to assist.
40.2.3 Any crew which has the red “SOS” sign displayed to them, or which sees a car which has suffered a major accident where both crew members are seen inside the car but are not displaying the red “SOS” sign, shall immediately and without exception stop to render assistance. All following cars shall also stop. The second car at the scene shall proceed to inform the next radio point. Subsequent cars shall leave a clear route for emergency vehicles.
40.2.4 In the case of an accident where immediate medical intervention is not required, the “OK” sign must be clearly shown by a crew member to the following vehicles and to any helicopter attempting to assist.
40.2.5 If the crew leaves the vehicle, the “OK” sign must be displayed so that it is clearly visible to other competitors.
40.2.6 Any crew which is able but fails to comply with the above rules will be reported to the clerk of the course.
40.2.7 The road book shall contain a page giving the accident procedure.
40.2.8 Any crew retiring from a rally must report such final retirement to the organisers as soon as possible, save in a case of force majeure. Any crew failing to comply will be subject to a penalty at the Stewards’ discretion.
40.3 ACCIDENT REPORTING
If a crew is involved in an accident in which a member of the public sustains physical injury, the procedure as laid down in Art. 40.2.3 must be followed.
40.4 RED TRIANGLE
40.4.1 Each competing car must carry a red reflective triangle which, in the event of the car stopping in a special stage, must be placed in a conspicuous position by a member of the crew at least 50 metres before the car’s position, in order to warn following drivers. Any crew failing to comply may be subject to a penalty at the discretion of the Stewards.
40.4.2 This triangle must be placed even if the stopped car is off the road.
40.5 YELLOW FLAGS
40.5.1 Electronic yellow flags
a) Yellow flag lights will be used in all competing cars. When the electronic Yellow Flag is activated from rally control, the Yellow Flag LED light situated on the FIA Emergency Console will flash and a continuous alarm will ring in the cockpit. Crews must confirm acknowledgement of the electronic Yellow Flag by pressing the OK button as soon as they see it and must immediately reduce speed.
b) The FIA-approved Yellow Flag LED system to be used will be provided by SIT only.
c) The Yellow Flag LED must be visible by both crew members.
40.5.2 Yellow flags at radio points
The yellow flag will be displayed to crews only on the instruction of the clerk of the course. The flags may only be displayed at radio points marked in the road book and by a marshal wearing a distinctive jacket of the colour stipulated in Appendix H and on which is marked the radio point symbol. Flags will be displayed
40.5.3 Meanings of a yellow flag
On passing a displayed yellow flag and/or acknowledging an electronic yellow flag, whichever happens first, the driver must immediately reduce speed, maintain this reduced speed until the end of the special stage, and follow the instructions of any marshals or intervention car drivers. Failure to comply with this rule will entail a penalty at the discretion of the Stewards.
40.5.4 A crew which has been shown the yellow flag will be given a notional time for the stage, as in Art. 39.
40.5.5 If different signalling systems (e.g. flashing lights) are used in super special stages, full details must be included in the supplementary regulations.
40.5.6 If a stage is interrupted or stopped and the crews are required to pass through the special stage, a yellow flag must be displayed at the start to inform the drivers how they must proceed.
40.5.7 Yellow flag points during reconnaissance
During reconnaissance, a sign bearing the radio post symbol must be displayed at the location of each radio point. This sign may be smaller than that used in the rally but must be clearly visible to crews performing reconnaissance in order that the locations may be noted.

[bluuford]

And your point is ?
My point is that there are not too many people and not too many spectators around as well As far as I have seen from the videos). Argentina in the other had, has high population denisty and there are so many spectators and officials that nearly every bush has some people behind it. And maybe there was OK sign at the back of Paddon car? Paddon was outside the car already and it was probably visible..

[N.O.T]

Extracted from the 2015 FIA World Rally Championship Sporting Regulations

40. COMPETITOR SAFETY
Blah blah blah .

maybe i missed it but does it say what must happen if the crew of the incoming car doesn't see any SOS or OK sign ? because that is what happened here...

[AL14]

maybe i missed it but does it say what must happen if the crew of the incoming car doesn't see any SOS or OK sign ? because that is what happened here...

40.2.3 Any crew which has the red “SOS” sign displayed to them, or which sees a car which has suffered a major accident where both crew members are seen inside the car but are not displaying the red “SOS” sign, shall immediately and without exception stop to render assistance.

[Rallyper]

40.2.3 Any crew which has the red “SOS” sign displayed to them, or which sees a car which has suffered a major accident where both crew members are seen inside the car but are not displaying the red “SOS” sign, shall immediately and without exception stop to render assistance.

But I believe this wasn´t the case for Tanak (or Evans) coming to the sight. So maybe it wasn´t anything wrong just passing by?

[moto99]

And maybe there was OK sign at the back of Paddon car? Paddon was outside the car already and it was probably visible..
I've heard one of the injured spectators put his hand in the air and showed Tanak OK signs with his hand...

Would you put OK sign on the car that crashed into spectators?
Paddon was hidden in the crowd and car was on its side so you couldn't tell if somebody was inside.

[Mk2 RS2000]

maybe i missed it but does it say what must happen if the crew of the incoming car doesn't see any SOS or OK sign ? because that is what happened here... and ignores all the in-car warning systems, well we will have to wait and see what has been verified and reported to the FIA for further action.

I do not have a schedule of FIA standard penalties at hand. However FYI in New Zealand where all our rallies run very close to WRC regulations (but with a few changes because we are such a remote place) the penalty is:
A3R.17
Failure to stop for displayed
Red SOS.
$1000.00
1. Exclusion from Meeting or
Event.
2. Endorsement of
competition licence for
minimum of 12 months.

New Zealand does use the excellent Australian made Rallysafe vehicle tracking system www.rallysafe.com.au which gives instant information back to Rally HQ and from HQ back to the competing cars. It tracks vehicles, records times stages, measures "G" force in accidents, enables competitors to request fire or medical assistance. In all a magic system that for a minimal cost could be in use for all rallies world wide.

[N.O.T]

so what the regulation is if there is no sign at all ? maybe they inform them about these things before the event... In any case Tanak did the right thing. The place was full of marshals and spectators and nobody made a sign to him to slow down or stop...

[N.O.T]

and ignores all the in-car warning systems, well we will have to wait and see what has been verified and reported to the FIA for further action.

I do not have a schedule of FIA standard penalties at hand. However FYI in New Zealand where all our rallies run very close to WRC regulations (but with a few changes because we are such a remote place) the penalty is:
A3R.17
Failure to stop for displayed
Red SOS.
$1000.00
1. Exclusion from Meeting or
Event.
2. Endorsement of
competition licence for
minimum of 12 months.

New Zealand does use the excellent Australian made Rallysafe vehicle tracking system www.rallysafe.com.au which gives instant information back to Rally HQ and from HQ back to the competing cars. It tracks vehicles, records times stages, measures "G" force in accidents, enables competitors to request fire or medical assistance. In all a magic system that for a minimal cost could be in use for all rallies world wide.

again it says failed to stop at S.O.S

what about if nothing is dispalyed ???

[AL14]

But I believe this wasn´t the case for Tanak (or Evans) coming to the sight. So maybe it wasn´t anything wrong just passing by?

me too. It was impossible to see if someone was in the car and by the way for sure Evans wasn't wrong in an ethical point of view either.

[moto99]

judging from wild lines and the fact he hasn't lifted it was Tanak

[moto99]

yeap, it was Tanak

if you saw the back of the drowning Fiesta but it was impossible to see if someone was in the car would you drive past without stopping?

[moto99]

nobody made a sign to him to slow down or stop...
I saw at least one person slowing him down

[AL14]

I saw at least one person slowing him down

He was already in the air when that guy told him to slow. People before that corner should did it.

[N.O.T]

I saw at least one person slowing him down

i saw him too but he was around 10 meters from the crash... tanak is a human being not a cat and no fighter pilot to slow down mid air.

[Mk2 RS2000]

again it says failed to stop at S.O.S

what about if nothing is dispalyed ???

Again from the MotorSport NZ schedule of standard penalties
A3R.16
Failure to display a warning
triangle.
$500.00
Endorsement of Competition
Licence for a minimum of 1
month, and maximum of 12
months.

Stewards have the authority to add additional penalties.

One of the beauties of the in-car system is that you get a pre-warning aof a stopped vehicle. For instance with Rallysafe we get a 250 - 300 metres warning prior to an accident scene or a vehicle stoppage as the system also transmits between competing vehicles so it is a bit like the yellow flag in the motor race scene where to do get a warning of a situation before you become part of it.

When it comes to a hearing with the Clerk of the Course or the Stewards it is pretty hard to argue that you did not know about the incident

The in-car system does not remove the requirement to erect a safety triangle approx. 50 metres from the scene but sometimes people are still extracting themselves when the next car arrives.

[N.O.T]

Again from the MotorSport NZ schedule of standard penalties
A3R.16
Failure to display a warning
triangle.
$500.00
Endorsement of Competition
Licence for a minimum of 1
month, and maximum of 12
months.

Stewards have the authority to add additional penalties.

One of the beauties of the in-car system is that you get a pre-warning aof a stopped vehicle. For instance with Rallysafe we get a 250 - 300 metres warning prior to an accident scene or a vehicle stoppage as the system also transmits between competing vehicles so it is a bit like the yellow flag in the motor race scene where to do get a warning of a situation before you become part of it.

When it comes to a hearing with the Clerk of the Course or the Stewards it is pretty hard to argue that you did not know about the incident

The in-car system does not remove the requirement to erect a safety triangle approx. 50 metres from the scene but sometimes people are still extracting themselves when the next car arrives.

again no answer to the question... the car infront could be halted because a small wire fell off or because the car exploded in a million pieces or it stopped 200 meters in a field or sunk down the ocean and nowhere to be seen.

Do the drivers following need to slow down/stop once they get the incar signal ?

[Mk2 RS2000]

"the car infront could be halted because a small wire fell off or because the car exploded in a million pieces or it stopped 200 meters in a field or sunk down the ocean and nowhere to be seen."

Correct



"Do the drivers following need to slow down/stop once they get the incar signal ?"

Do you need to slow down/stop once you get a yellow traffic light at an intersection? I would like to know as we are coming your way shortly and wouldn't like to be involved in a traffic accident.

Look we are getting away from the guts of this thread which is about Rally Argentina

[N.O.T]

Rally Argentina is over... Meeke won.

the question is simple...

Is there an official regulation that states what a driver must do if he doesn't see any sos/ok/triangle and gets an incar signal that the car in front is not moving ??

I am aware that if a driver gets a sign he must act accordingly, but so far people are accusing Tanak that he did not slow down/stop while there was no indication for him to do so (apart from a guy standing 10 meters away from the accident)

[Mk2 RS2000]

Rally Argentina is over... Meeke won.

the question is simple...

Is there an official regulation that states what a driver must do if he doesn't see any sos/ok/triangle and gets an incar signal that the car in front is not moving ??

I am aware that if a driver gets a sign he must act accordingly, but so far people are accusing Tanak that he did not slow down/stop while there was no indication for him to do so (apart from a guy standing 10 meters away from the accident)

As posted earlier:

"and ignores all the in-car warning systems, well we will have to wait and see what has been verified and reported to the FIA for further action."

The FIA does not list a schedule of standard penalties on their website that I am able to find but I am confident that the Stewards handbook has them listed

Again, using the system that I am familiar with the yellow light is a warning that there is hazard ahead and to be prepared to stop, the safety triangle identifies the spot. The SOS or OK signs mean exactly that. If the Yellow hazard light is illuminated along with a green OK light then the road is clear and no assistance is required. If the red light is activated stop.

FYI, the Rallysafe system has identified cars in the water here in NZ. If it had been in use in Mexico at Rally HQ it would have shown the"g" forces that went into Tanak's car, the rollover and it's path off the road along with its last known GPS location. The tracks are on Google earth, HQ just zooms into where that reading is. . The cars following Tanak would have had the yellow hazard warning but no green ok. I really cannot understand why every event organiser in the world is not using it.

[makinen_fan]

https://scontent-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/11193374_816022198452928_4414168367706469092_n.jpg ?oh=af1bbb3914c5024457e266b65bda37ac&oe=55D25C2C

[N.O.T]

so no official rule, and it up to the event organiser to give direction of what must happen in case no sign is at the location of the incident... Court dismissed... Tanak not guilty...

go and enjoy the rest of your lives people.

[janvanvurpa]

so no official rule, and it up to the event organiser to give direction of what must happen in case no sign is at the location of the incident... Court dismissed... Tanak not guilty...

go and enjoy the rest of your lives people.





40.2.4 In the case of an accident where immediate medical intervention is not required, the “OK” sign must be clearly shown by a crew member to the following vehicles and to any helicopter attempting to assist.
40.2.5 If the crew leaves the vehicle, the “OK” sign must be displayed so that it is clearly visible to other competitors.
40.2.6 Any crew which is able but fails to comply with the above rules will be reported to the clerk of the course.

Great, no brilliant conclusion...

been sniffing too many test tubes?

[Mk2 RS2000]

Great, no brilliant conclusion...

been sniffing too many test tubes?

John, it is late on a Friday night (his time) and he is in a university city. He should be out getting drunk and/or laid but instead he is tied up in his little room with only his computer and us guys as his only real friends in the world.

[N.O.T]

John, it is late on a Friday night (his time) and he is in a university city. He should be out getting drunk and/or laid but instead he is tied up in his little room with only his computer and us guys as his only real friends in the world.

pretty shallow point of view of what fun is...

[Mk2 RS2000]

Because of something that you fail to do I will, according to the Oxford English Dictionary have the last word on our little debate. You may have to look it up as it is not in common usage today however the meaning remains unchanged. The word is zyxt.

[janvanvurpa]

John, it is late on a Friday night (his time) and he is in a university city. He should be out getting drunk and/or laid but instead he is tied up in his little room with only his computer and us guys as his only real friends in the world.

Well good point...but think..You seen a photo of him? Very angry looking guy, scrawny...glaring...in a obviously not in a good way...type way..
So even if he was out and about quaffing a few frostie ones, women, even impaired ones would avoid him like the plague..
That is of course assuming he "likes' women...

He is Greek after all
You know what they say about Greek!

Goes without saying! That's why nobody ever says it :disturb:
So say no more!

[pino]

For the very last time, all of you please quit personal comments, or you will be shown the door. No place in here for such childish and offensive comments !!!

[Mark]

I'm watching this thread now too. We don't want to ban members I would much rather we acted like grown ups in the first place. Not too much to ask?

[Rallyper]

But guys, this time I think NOT has a point.

[Mark]

But guys, this time I think NOT has a point.

I'm not bothered who has what point. I just need things to stop :)

[Rallyper]

I'm not bothered who has what point. I just need things to stop :)

Oh, I didn´t update last quotes. My answer is after MK2 RS2000 quote to John. But still it is relevant. Please Mark, don´t ban anyone.

[N.O.T]

personal comments do not bother me much i must say...never did, so no need to take action.

[janvanvurpa]

I'm watching this thread now too. We don't want to ban members I would much rather we acted like grown ups in the first place. Not too much to ask?


Then explain to your friend Pino that he must learn some discrimination in his threats.

This foorums rather unique take on what kind of insults are allowed---defining "personal' as who ever might have happened to wander in and manage to complete the registrartion process...

THEY are personal so we can't even RIDICULE them without Pino rushing in to threaten bans--


- But one person in a overwhelming majority of all his posts is continually, constantly, repetitively and boringly insults intentional virtually EVERY driver, every official, everybody up to and including entire countries.. see his post from a few days ago:



30th April 2015, 00:28 #663 (http://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?35471-Rally-Argentina-2015&p=1050274&viewfull=1#post1050274)
N.O.T (http://www.motorsportforums.com/member.php?154-N-O-T)
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God Join DateAug 2000LocationOxford - EnglandPosts17,466Like60Liked 318 Times in 212 Posts http://mystatus.skype.com/smallicon/grigoris.tsolkas


Low life argentinians... no surprise there.




The North Will Rise Again
My Pics https://www.flickr.com/photos/51932399@N07/sets/



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Bolded so your man Pino can't miss it.

I'm just going to guess but I think his daily, endless insulting of EVERYBODY in the whole world, and as above whole countries, is an awful lot if PERSONS.......so an awful lot of PERSONAL INSULTS...a significant percentage of all he posts

Since you and Pino choose to do nothing to moderate the endless daily pointless insulting pouring forth from NOT,

Participation in discussion is negatively affected, and people eventually tire....

It IS ridiculous---so in a ridiculous situation , people try something to maintain some minimal level of discussion---in this case ridicule---which IS a different thing than NOTS endless insulting to everybody---and by my reading to those who read it.

Do what you want, but Mark, explain to Pino the idea that insults to the degree that it is done NOT about EVERYBODY, eventually insults members here. And that ridicule in response is a different thing..

[Mark]

I care not for whom is a responsible for the state between you two. I only care that it is to cease and I'm rather I incredulous that my message seems to lack clarity. Now; desist.

I do not wish to hear any more about this. Thusly it's my instruction that any further discourse on this matter should be removed.

Now let's get back to the rally.

[Rallyper]

But what if - not in this thread, but in the bar-thread - and maybe others, when it corresponds to the topic, letting NOT make his "insulting" comments, and doing him a big favour? Maybe this forum is the only way he can let out his primal screams?

So why not let him do that? If I get angry with him I try to answer as good as I can, maybe trying to help him on his way back to selfconfidence. Or just maybe argue.

He has his own way making his voice heard.

[stefanvv]

I vote up for the rally discussions. And I wonder.... where is "not" place in that? May be we should go back to the definition of rally. What is rally indeed? And why do we like it? I'm a nice person so by default I don't want insult anybody, but I'm also quite tired of "not" and John has a good point....

btw it felt good to be out of the forum for awhile....

[stefanvv]

But what if - not in this thread, but in the bar-thread - and maybe others, when it corresponds to the topic, letting NOT make his "insulting" comments, and doing him a big favour? Maybe this forum is the only way he can let out his primal screams?

So why not let him do that? If I get angry with him I try to answer as good as I can, maybe trying to help him on his way back to selfconfidence. Or just maybe argue.

He has his own way making his voice heard.

Per, there are people who actually write in this forum which are involved in Rallying, well it is not me, but I can guess this is somewhat disturbing for them insulting any person other than.... (well You know who), is more or less disrespect for their work. Everything is fine a bar talk thread I guess though, but it has no place in the threads where the sport happens (and yes, we are not back in time between 2004-2012). So everyone who is just entertained by "not" comments can enjoy a "bar talk"....

[N.O.T]

Per, there are people who actually write in this forum which are involved in Rallying, well it is not me, but I can guess this is somewhat disturbing for them insulting any person other than.... (well You know who), is more or less disrespect for their work. Everything is fine a bar talk thread I guess though, but it has no place in the threads where the sport happens (and yes, we are not back in time between 2004-2012). So everyone who is just entertained by "not" comments can enjoy a "bar talk"....

if they did their work properly (as you know who...) then there would be no reason for insults... if you are insulted by critisism based on facts then you pretty much want an opinion less forum.

[stefanvv]

if they did their work properly (as you know who...) then there would be no reason for insults... if you are insulted by critisism based on facts then you pretty much want an opinion less forum.

No, I can't be insulted, but I am a good person and compassionate to the people who are.

[N.O.T]

No, I can't be insulted, but I am a good person and compassionate to the people who are.

even to those who are insulted by justified critisism ??

[AL14]

Shame on dimviii for not having found this one ;)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDcDXAzW0AAMsh6.jpg:large

[stefanvv]

even to those who are insulted by justified critisism ??

I haven't seen such so far. At least not on solid ground. Who do You mean?

[N.O.T]

I haven't seen such so far. At least not on solid ground. Who do You mean?

the fact that you have not seen so far does not mean it was not justified, different people different standards. Next time you feel something i say is not justified point it out and we go form there.

[stefanvv]

Shame on dimviii for not having found this one ;)

good one:)

[stefanvv]

the fact that you have not seen so far does not mean it was not justified, different people different standards. Next time you feel something i say is not justified point it out and we go form there.

First question - how can You justify something not in the same time, not the same conditions, and with not all the people involved? It's a difficult one, I know....

[N.O.T]

First question - how can You justify something not in the same time, not the same conditions, and with not all the people involved? It's a difficult one, I know....

you take into account some constants and you compare according to the era.

If you need everything to be on the same level and time to draw conclusions then you pretty much exclude any kind of comparison even if the two things are in the same time and level.

For example with your logic you can claim than the man who discoved the wheel was a smarter man than Einstein... or to claim that these two people cannot be compared.

[stefanvv]

you take into account some constants and you compare according to the era.

If you need everything to be on the same level and time to draw conclusions then you pretty much exclude any kind of comparison even if the two things are in the same time and level.

For example with your logic you can claim than the man who discoved the wheel was a smarter man than Einstein... or to claim that these two people cannot be compared.

Your response is pretty foggy and lastly quite dramatic. I am particularly interested who is the man who discovered the wheel?

[N.O.T]

Your response is pretty foggy and lastly quite dramatic. I am particularly interested who is the man who discovered the wheel?

that was exactly the reason why i used this example... with your logic nothing can be compared.

[stefanvv]

that was exactly the reason why i used this example... with your logic nothing can be compared.

So, why do You compare then?

btw, currently there are actually people with more IQ than Mr. Einstein. But they are famous only with this fact. How can You compare this?

[AL14]

I am particularly interested who is the man who discovered the wheel?

No one knows but there are high chances that his name was Sebastien

[N.O.T]

So, why do You compare then?

btw, currently there are actually people with more IQ than Mr. Einstein. But they are famous only with this fact. How can You compare this?

because you compare achievements not numbers... if you compare numbers then again with your logic they do not mean anything because for example IQ was calculated using different tests in the 40s than they use now.

my objection lies to the fact that by avoiding comparisons due to whatever reason you basically become an opinion less person. I prefer to have an opinion about everything that is of my interest than to be just a spectator of things.

[stefanvv]

No one knows but there are high chances that his name was Sebastien

Well done Al:D

[stefanvv]

because you compare achievements not numbers... if you compare numbers then again with your logic they do not mean anything because for example IQ was calculated using different tests in the 40s than they use now.

Exactly, numbers don't mean much if You compare different circumstances. We don't need to compare different eras, different drivers in different periods, different results in overall.


my objection lies to the fact that by avoiding comparisons due to whatever reason you basically become an opinion less person. I prefer to have an opinion about everything that is of my interest than to be just a spectator of things.

Opinion is one thing, You can make idols, or whatever You call them if You want, but everything in its time and personal preference. You can't change an opinion of an grown and experienced the "things" person though. So choking every spark of progress is not the way the things to get better. That applies to former persons involved in the sport in one way or another.

After all it is just a sport, and the sport idea is to enjoy it, no matter what time or era it is. For sure every one has it's own heroes (for one reason or another), it is for the bar where this can come to a fight or something;)

[N.O.T]

It is quite dangerous if people followed your logic where personal preferences should be accepted because you cannot change an adult persons mind...

What does it mean it is just a sport ? it is something some people are passionate about and enjoy it in different ways... choking a spark of progress is one thing and choking a spark of nothingness another...

About the comparisons as i said you compare things and people according to some constants and by comparing achievements/numbers and facts... its the complicity of the whole thing that makes it exciting to draw your conclusions... you prefer to be opinionless and i prefer to have a very strong opinion about things which i support with facts, if you want to argue you can simply state facts that disprove it, by saying you cannot compare them you just step aside.

I can do this all night... Mayweather vs pacquiao is in 3 hours time.

[AL14]

You guys are into a tunnel, you'll never end this conversation cause you're far from your main topic.

@stefanvv I see your point. But I think anyone can compare things in different eras and as NOT says supporting it with facts. Maybe his right maybe he's wrong but I think in a forum is good that everyone can do it and can criticise other opinions.

@NOT As I write before I think you have a point. But it seems to me some member of this forum is asking you to be a bit more respectful to those who you think are not right. This doesn't mean you don't have to argue or defend your position. But I'm not amongst them, I actually find it funny somehow (besides the "low life" referred to a nation like Argentina)

BTW if you want to fight NOT back it is very simple, you can talk about the last rally winner, say that his car was not too much sideways and the Nose End First guy will join the conversation. It seems he doesn't like it. ;)

[stefanvv]

It is quite dangerous if people followed your logic where personal preferences should be accepted because you cannot change an adult persons mind...

What does it mean it is just a sport ? it is something some people are passionate about and enjoy it in different ways... choking a spark of progress is one thing and choking a spark of nothingness another...

You're missing the point here. You can't compare different achievements in different times/eras just by numbers. It is just not justified.....


About the comparisons as i said you compare things and people according to some constants and by comparing achievements/numbers and facts... its the complicity of the whole thing that makes it exciting to draw your conclusions... you prefer to be opinionless and i prefer to have a very strong opinion about things which i support with facts, if you want to argue you can simply state facts that disprove it, by saying you cannot compare them you just step aside.

I don't have problems to step aside, after all I don't defend my personal ambition..... or something. You can find my opinions about different abilities of different persons throughout this forum, I hate to repeat myself. But You generally have a problem, I don't what it is, I'm not a psychologist or something, just this is not normal..... When I said it is a sport, I mean exactly what I wrote - "we should enjoy it"...... It is different time now with its own characters/heroes, and that is what that matters currently......

[stefanvv]

You guys are into a tunnel, you'll never end this conversation cause you're far from your main topic.

@stefanvv I see your point. But I think anyone can compare things in different eras and as NOT says supporting it with facts. Maybe his right maybe he's wrong but I think in a forum is good that everyone can do it and can criticise other opinions.

@NOT As I write before I think you have a point. But it seems to me some member of this forum is asking you to be a bit more respectful to those who you think are not right. This doesn't mean you don't have to argue or defend your position. But I'm not amongst them, I actually find it funny somehow (besides the "low life" referred to a nation like Argentina)

BTW if you want to fight NOT back it is very simple, you can talk about the last rally winner, say that his car was not too much sideways and the Nose End First guy will join the conversation. It seems he doesn't like it. ;)

Al. You seem reasonable person, I don't see that in "not". I admire some of Loeb's achievements (btw I can't understand the Loeb fans with their unprovoked defence mechanism), and I've said it throughout this forum, I don't have problems with that. But this is long over, it is different time now, with different passions and ambitions.....

[N.O.T]

You're missing the point here. You can't compare different achievements in different times/eras just by numbers. It is just not justified.....

I don't have problems to step aside, after all I don't defend my personal ambition..... or something. You can find my opinions about different abilities of different persons throughout this forum, I hate to repeat myself. But You generally have a problem, I don't what it is, I'm not a psychologist or something, just this is not normal..... When I said it is a sport, I mean exactly what I wrote - "we should enjoy it"...... It is different time now with its own characters/heroes, and that is what that matters currently......

as i said it is not just the numbers, you take into account other things as well through studying the details of each persons achievements. If numbers was the only factor it would be too easy to be exciting.

About the second thing, it just depends how passionate are you about it. I am not the kind of person who does or follows something with the logic of "It is just a..." It is not my life's philosophy, i either go deep into something or not at all.

[stefanvv]

as i said it is not just the numbers, you take into account other things as well through studying the details of each persons achievements. If numbers was the only factor it would be too easy to be exciting.

About the second thing, it just depends how passionate are you about it. I am not the kind of person who does or follows something with the logic of "It is just a..." It is not my life's philosophy, i either go deep into something or not at all.

Oh boy..... You can have You're own idols, no one can take it from You. I just find it inappropriate it continuously to flow in this forum, that is all. Not in the form You present anyway;)

[Mark]

It was a decent discussion now it's got personal again. Children please.

[dimviii]

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2015/photos/xion_rally_argentina_2015/rmo_dsc_0116.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2015/photos/xion_rally_argentina_2015/rmo_dsc_0451.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2015/photos/xion_rally_argentina_2015/rmo_dsc_0330.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2015/photos/xion_rally_argentina_2015/rmo_dsc_0117.jpg

http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/fotogalery.php?events=19122&fotograf=256

[dimviii]

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/251452CEA5WoKUUAAuckPjpglarge.jpg

[EstWRC]

Tänak's onboard from powerstage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKOsVNlqa4s&spfreload=10

[Antony Warmbold]

Tänak all over the place and 3 times lucky escapes from doing a Mikkelsen... in comparison to Ogier's drive. And Ogier 10 sec faster on 16km...

[dimviii]

Neuville vs Sordo ss6(Sordo faster for 1.9 sec at 6.04km )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lx7e1-CJ04&feature=youtu.be