Rally Guanajuato México 2015

[stefanvv]

Ogier gave 10 seconds opening the road to the others in a stage. 10 seconds in the most loose gravel rally of the champioship.

Yes I know that, that is the only onboard I watched on wrc+ from this rally. But I'm not talking about this stage in particular. Ogier was crazy fast there, it was mind blowing to watch it, it looked like he got away with many thing others could not, but if You watch more carefully, You'll understand why....

PS: Please don't use the words for the other drivers You use, it makes me not willing to respond....

[AL14]

PS: Please don't use the words for the other drivers You use, it makes me not willing to respond....

Guys, a bit of humor, we're just discussing about rally, we're not in a parliament. No need to fight everytime.
You know well I like more other drivers than Ogier.

[stefanvv]

impreseed with his pace? did you notice that he finished 22 minutes from leader?
fast times which resulted to crash we have seen from plenty drivers(Latvala,Kubica,Meeke etc).This is not competition.

That is second time You don't understand the word I used - pace. They can crash and they do, that is true, but You can't teach old dogs new tricks, can You?

[stefanvv]

Guys, a bit of humor, we're just discussing about rally, we're not in a parliament.

You know nothing about the parliament in my country obviously

[AL14]

You know nothing about the parliament in my country obviously

Lol, I have the worst one believe me, I didnt find a better comparison but I'm sure you understand what I meant ;)

[N.O.T]

I'd say maybe half of N.O.T's IQ if I'm very optimistic, so no...

he is not that smart...

[N.O.T]

Agreed. Certainly more competition than the Leotard faced after 2007.

who came after 2007 and made the competiton better ?

[stefanvv]

who came after 2007 and made the competiton better ?

VW

[dimviii]

That is second time You don't understand the word I used - pace. They can crash and they do, that is true, but You can't teach old dogs new tricks, can You?

yes but pace at some stages is NOT competition.And here we are talking about the absence of competition.

[COD]

There just is one above the rest now. Now returning to the days, when 5 potential winners fought for the win

[dimviii]

What's this comment for?

Greek is very different from English, and there are plenty of people who speak English as their first language who make mistakes as well. At least what he's trying to tell makes sense AND is interesting to read, something I can't say from your posts...

dont bother Tom.Every time Loeb wins is getting rude.He just cant manage it.

[stefanvv]

yes but pace at some stages is NOT competition.And here we are talking about the absence of competition.

For me it is competition, everyone of them is giving it's best. At the end there can be only 1 winner, or I am wrong?

[Viking]

The other Seb just won a wtcc race... yes must be the name...

[AL14]

The other Seb should stop going in circles and come back home.

[N.O.T]

VW

in case you haven't noticed Ogier drives for them...

[Muchonen]

Another disappointing rally from Latvala. Now his chance to be the champion went to almost zero. Same for Meeke. So far pretty equal with Kubica in performance and there may be some battle for manufacture's spot between them. Shame on Hyundai drivers, showed nothing here. Sordo aka gravel "expert" was terrible indeed. Ogier from another planet right now.

And Loeb just won WTCC race there... Oh Lord give me the strength.

[N.O.T]

dont bother Tom.Every time Loeb wins is getting rude.He just cant manage it.

It is normal... the victim never forget his rapist... so just sympathize the poor guy.

[dimviii]

For me it is competition, everyone of them is giving it's best. At the end there can be only 1 winner, or I am wrong?

giving his best resulted to 22 minutes from leader.Thats not competition.Same applies for Latvala,Mikkelsen,Meeke,Ostberg,Evans,Sordo etc

[stefanvv]

in case you haven't noticed Ogier drives for them...

I have, but I meant also the general competition between manufacturers and in team battles

[stefanvv]

giving his best resulted to 22 minutes from leader.Thats not competition.Same applies for Latvala,Mikkelsen,Meeke,Ostberg,Evans,Sordo etc

than go blame FIA for Rally2. I'm tired....

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_mgm4PUcAAdWom.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_mehyUVEAAsh6d.jpg

[dimviii]

than go blame FIA for Rally2. I'm tired....

why to blame fia? without rally2 the gap will increase.

[N.O.T]

I have, but I meant also the general competition between manufacturers and in team battles

where is the competition between the manufacturers ??? LOL... The Fords back in 2007 were much closer to citroens than any team is close to VW nowadays...

wake up or change the sport.

[stefanvv]

why to blame fia? without rally2 the gap will increase.

no it won''t. It'll be much less than 22 mins

[Viking]

Ogier 81
Mikkelsen 47
Neuville 35
Østberg 32
Evans 26
Latvala 19

[stefanvv]

where is the competition between the manufacturers ??? LOL... The Fords back in 2007 were much closer to citroens than any team is close to VW nowadays...

wake up or change the sport.

Yeah, VW is smashing the competition with good car, but let's hope this year hyunday will be some. Why should I change the sport? I like Ogier+VW combination.

[dimviii]

no it won''t. It'll be much less than 22 mins

how? Neuville without rally2 wouldn t had finished the rally.

[AL14]

no it won''t. It'll be much less than 22 mins

It won't be a gap 'cause Neuvile would be in Belgium just yet. So it will be worse than 22 mins. Come on you can't say there is a good competition. Last year a bit from Latvala, this year Mikkelsen and Neuville are better but you simply can't say competition is good. Ogier is clearly in another planet. It's more a fact than an opinion.

[stefanvv]

how? Neuville without rally2 wouldn t had finished the rally.

Let's take for example Monte Carlo - without Rally2 there were more finished drivers than with Rally2. It's all in the mind of the driver, Rally2 gives him chance to relax and make mistakes.

[dimviii]

Let's take for example Monte Carlo - without Rally2 there were more finished drivers than with Rally2. It's all in the mind of the driver, Rally2 gives him chance to relax and make mistakes.

lets talk about facts,and not what we are thinking if...

[stefanvv]

lets talk about facts,and not what we are thinking if...

Facts, hmm, ok. Fact is that this year Mexico had more competition than most of the years Loeb has been competing. If I remember right his closest competition was Grohnolm for 2 years and that was it. Later it was Hirvonen, which we can classify equal to Ostberg & Mikkelsen this year. So 1+1 against 3+2, how is that for facts? I think 3+2 is better competition than 1+1....

[Ounin]

lets talk about facts,and not what we are thinking if...

The fact is that 2015 is lost for some competition, it will be another Ogier year. I find it a bit weak to moan and suddenly call for Loeb, everybody was happy when he left...take some more time for the the Young Talents Thread, we have seemd to abandon that one ...

[Mk2 RS2000]

Whit your speaking skills it is really hard to underwhatever. How could you be in this forum from 8 years and not learn casual phrases from the simplest language on the planet?

Your spelling, proof reading and grammar is atrocious, didn’t you learn English at school?

[dimviii]

Hirvonen equal with Mikkelsen and Ostberg? you choosed his worst years to proove competition for Ogier? or i am missing something?
You said that Gronholm was worst competition for Loeb than Neuville,Evans Latvala for Ogier?

[dimviii]

The fact is that 2015 is lost for some competition, it will be another Ogier year. I find it a bit weak to moan and suddenly call for Loeb, everybody was happy when he left...take some more time for the the Young Talents Thread, we have seemd to abandon that one ...

of course we have to be patient.We cant do something else.

[stefanvv]

Hirvonen equal with Mikkelsen and Ostberg? you choosed his worst years to proove competition for Ogier? or i am missing something?
No I'm not talking about competition Hirvonen vs Ogier. I'm talking about approach to the rally.


You said that Gronholm was worst competition for Loeb than Neuville,Evans Latvala for Ogier?
No, he was good enough, but only 1 I'm afraid. Evans is not ready for true competition yet though, let's hope he will be in the near future....

[stefanvv]

of course we have to be patient.We cant do something else.

Patient for what? Ogier is the best driver ATM and he takes what is his. Just in Loeb times, well more or less anyway, mostly less....

[dimviii]

the big questionmark will be Latvala.Dont know if now with no stress about championship if he helps him mentally.
i believe that he would be better from next rallies.At least i hope.Except that is difficult to be worse than now.

1 Ogier 81
2 Mikkelsen 47
3 Neuville 35
4 Ostberg 32
5 Evans 26
6 Latvala 19
7 Sordo 18
8 Prokop 14
9 Tänak 12
10 Meeke 10

[dimviii]

No I'm not talking about competition Hirvonen vs Ogier. I'm talking about approach to the rally..
cant understant you.



No, he was good enough, but only 1 I'm afraid.

only 1 but much better than all of the current drivers except Ogier.He was world champion too,and could win in a straight fight Loeb.And for this driver you ,and some from here said that Ogier has now better competition.

[dimviii]

Patient for what? Ogier is the best driver ATM and he takes what is his. Just in Loeb times, well more or less anyway, mostly less....

didn t say something different about Ogier.We are talking about the current competition.
explain to us how Evans,Tanak from Ford,Neuville Sordo from Hyundai,and Ostberg Meeke from Citroen are better than Gronholm,McRae,Sainz,Makinen etc.
use facts please.

[stefanvv]

cant understant you.
Ostberg drives as good to finish, so is MIkkelsen suffering his experience last year. Much like Hirvonen in his mostly last years, that is what I meant


only 1 but much better than all of the current drivers except Ogier.He was world champion too,and could win in a straight fight Loeb.And for this driver you ,and some from here said that Ogier has now better competition.

I don't consider championship titles, there is no dispute there. I was talking about pure pace, not that hard to understand. Every driver is prone to error at some point, nobody's perfect. But the number of drivers is what that matters in my point.

[stefanvv]

didn t say something different about Ogier.We are talking about the current competition.
explain to us how Evans,Tanak from Ford,Neuville Sordo from Hyundai,and Ostberg Meeke from Citroen are better than Gronholm,McRae,Sainz,Makinen etc.
use facts please.

Ahhh. No, I'm not going for another "Loeb is not the best" debate, I have said it numerous of times I don't care about such things. I stated the competition is better for the last 10 years, don't see Sainz (very old), McRae (almost that old), Makinen (way out of the picture) there.

[dimviii]

Ostberg drives as good to finish, so is MIkkelsen suffering his experience last year. Much like Hirvonen in his mostly last years, that is what I meant
choosing worst Hirvonens years will not help to proove that the current competition is better.I told you that again.




I don't consider championship titles, there is no dispute there. I was talking about pure pace, not that hard to understand. Every driver is prone to error at some point, nobody's perfect. But the number of drivers is what that matters in my point.
so today the numbers of drivers(without a single win,or with 1 or 2 wins,and not a single championship) are better competition than Gronholms world championships?

nice photo
https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7591/16747115652_a124b77448_c.jpg

[latek]

So can anyone explain Bertelli's crash? What did happen actually?

[dimviii]

Ahhh. No, I'm not going for another "Loeb is not the best" debate, I have said it numerous of times I don't care about such things. I stated the competition is better for the last 10 years, don't see Sainz (very old), McRae (almost that old), Makinen (way out of the picture) there.

you told that the current competition is better.So we have to talk about last champions with facts.

[stefanvv]

choosing worst Hirvonens years will not help to proove that the current competition is better.I told you that again.

and which are Hirvonen's best years?

[dimviii]

and which are Hirvonen's best years?

search it it isnt so difficult.

[KKS]

I like Rally spirit
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_mlD0DUYAAUII5.jpg

[stefanvv]

search it it isnt so difficult.

no it isn't. But I have a flaw - the point of view of a Loeb fan. So from this point of view, which are, and more importantly, why the competition is better?

[N.O.T]

and which are Hirvonen's best years?

up until/including 2009 then the decline begun...

The thing is Loeb faced huge competition in his career... and we know what happened to all those people who challenged him. Loeb faced multiple champions/challengers/young guns he faced any kind of competiton imaginable and bare in mind.... he even won championship without the car being the best by far... and ridiculed them like they were nothing... that is why he is cemented as the best motorsport driver of all times...

Ogier so far only faces challengers...and his championships are with him competing with a car that is HUGELY better than the rest (like Loebs late C4s and DS3, but loeb won championships with the xsara that was not that much better if at all) i do not expect him to lose any titles for another 2-3 years even if hyundai/toyota manages to reach VW level, the only person i see that can face him is Mikkelsen and Latvala only if he has a very lucky year...

[N.O.T]

why the competition is better?

because it was diverse...

He faced multiple champions (makinen, Gronholm)
He faced drivers considering to be amazingly fast (Mcrae)
He faced drivers that were fast and consistent (Sainz,Burns)
He faced young guns hungry for victories and championships (Latvala,Hirvonen)
He faced champions that were on the rise (Solberg)

Ogier so far has faced an assortment of garbage dogs/tourists/drivers that were worn out by loebs dominamce....

now go to bed...

[KKS]

how? Neuville without rally2 wouldn t had finished the rally.

Old good team will teach him how to finish a rally, but Huyndai....

[dimviii]

no it isn't. But I have a flaw - the point of view of a Loeb fan. So from this point of view, which are, and more importantly, why the competition is better?

nothing to do with Loeb fan.
simply the competition at his days was much better.We cant compare Gronholm vs all the current drivers and Hirvonens good years when championship decided at last rally for 1 point
of course thats not Ogiers fault,but we have to talk truth.

[dimviii]

because it was diverse...

He faced multiple champions (makinen, Gronholm)
He faced drivers considering to be amazingly fast (Mcrae)
He faced drivers that were fast and consistent (Sainz,Burns)
He faced young guns hungry for victories and championships (Latvala,Hirvonen)
He faced champions that were on the rise (Solberg)


you forget Ogier.

[stefanvv]

simply, simply, I will go to bed soon indeed..... You should enjoy good competition anyway, for me Ogier to win is good enough

[stefanvv]

you forget Ogier.

Sordo, don't forget Sordo. He could take Loeb in his pocket on some asphalt events. Don't forget Sordo....

[KKS]

So can anyone explain Bertelli's crash? What did happen actually?

Today? or yesterday crash?
I think video that posted here - it's yesterday crash. Same place and same mistake that Protasov did.
As I saw that a small crest here and 10 meters after a right (5th gear corner). And both are jump from crest immediately to corner without that 10 meters gap
True road: Over crest, 10 Right 5
They drive: Over crest into Right5.

[N.O.T]

for me Ogier to win is good enough

nobody said something different... Ogier is a worthy champion and by far the one with the best driving ability from the current crop of driver.

But to each one its own... Loeb is Loeb.... the best of all times, the rapist, the rally god, the dog beater, the living nightmare, the world devourer, the soul molester, the one, the only, the bestestest, the one who will make your kid cry, the respectful.... and many many more...

[N.O.T]

Sordo, don't forget Sordo. He could take Loeb in his pocket on some asphalt events. Don't forget Sordo....

yes many events... namely only spain... and by 4 seconds (in his pocket LOLZORZ)... once in 2010... LOL

[stefanvv]

yes many events... namely only spain... and by 4 seconds (in his pocket LOLZORZ)... once in 2010... LOL

It is competition, isn't it?

[N.O.T]

So can anyone explain Bertelli's crash? What did happen actually?

Lack of driving skill...

[N.O.T]

It is competition, isn't it?

yes of course but i bother with the important ones...

[stefanvv]

yes of course but i bother with the important ones...

well, I'm not statistic. Just seem to me the competition last 10 years was much more pail than current one (I exclude 2010 or 2011 it was Loeb vs Ogier, don't remember exactly, which seemed all decided)

[N.O.T]

well, I'm not statistic. Just seem to me the competition last 10 years was much more pail than current one (I exclude 2010 or 2011 it was Loeb vs Ogier, don't remember exactly, which seemed all decided)

in the last 10 years no...

the competiton became ridiculous 2 years after Gronholms retirement and remains until now... before that it was quite fierce but the result was the same... rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape... someone would think the rivals of Loeb and its haters enjoyed that a bit too much... but i am not one of them so i cannot say for sure...

[litifeta]

Ogier simply the best again. Good to see Mads hold his nerve and keep second. Not sure I buy Jari's reason fro the crash, could not see what he was talking about. Great to see the Hyundais showing true speed. Really liked what Kubica did this weekend. Meeke was unfortunate, inexperience in Mexico carrying too much speed into corners to compensate for a lack of power. All in all, really good to watch.

[N.O.T]

Really liked what Kubica did this weekend

mee too.. 4 crashes in 3 events... hard to match.

Australian rally fans.... LOL

[stefanvv]

he competiton became ridiculous 2 years after Gronholms retirement and remains until now...

Ok, that was my point in this discussion actually. Even with him the competition now it's better. Don't care about "Jack"'s fevers.

[N.O.T]

ok. bed time now.

[litifeta]

mee too.. 4 crashes in 3 events... hard to match.

Australian rally fans.... LOL

Instead of science you should have studied psychology to help yourself with your own behaviour disorder

[N.O.T]

Instead of science you should have studied psychology to help yourself with your own behaviour disorder

ok mr serious person... what did you like about kubica on this event ?

[AL14]

The beard.

[stefanvv]

So can anyone explain Bertelli's crash? What did happen actually?

Can't say for sure, but here is extended video with lot of cursing - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnqLVt5q00Q

[AL14]

It really seems he thought that that trench was actually the road. Maybe a wrong pacenote, or maybe a lack of attention. It's a bit hilarious to be honest.

[EightGear]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/08/7f7f58eda94895a3204809af063d00b7.jpg

M-Sport are not milking this at all. :D

[stefanvv]

It really seems he thought that that trench was actually the road. Maybe a wrong pacenote, or maybe a lack of attention. It's a bit hilarious to be honest.

may be so. He needs more gravel experience.....

[N.O.T]

The beard.

the ugliness is even worse with that, so no...

[RAS007]

because it was diverse...

He faced multiple champions (makinen, Gronholm)
He faced drivers considering to be amazingly fast (Mcrae)
He faced drivers that were fast and consistent (Sainz,Burns)
He faced young guns hungry for victories and championships (Latvala,Hirvonen)
He faced champions that were on the rise (Solberg)

Ogier so far has faced an assortment of garbage dogs/tourists/drivers that were worn out by loebs dominamce....

now go to bed...

All of the ex-world champions Loeb faced (Sainz, McRae, Makinen) were WELL past their prime by the time he arrived on the scene, with the exception of Gronholm and Solberg, so lets not get carried away. Sadly, we never really got the chance to see what would have happened vs Burns. After Gronholm retired in 2007, Loeb faced practically no competition, just like Ogier now. As for Latvala/Hirvonen, you just referred to them as "garbage dogs....worn out by loebs dominance" above, so you can't also say that beating them was any kind of achievement.

[N.O.T]

All of the ex-world champions Loeb faced (Sainz, McRae, Makinen) were WELL past their prime by the time he arrived on the scene, with the exception of Gronholm and Solberg, so lets not get carried away. Sadly, we never really got the chance to see what would have happened vs Burns. After Gronholm retired in 2007, Loeb faced practically no competition, just like Ogier now. As for Latvala/Hirvonen, you just referred to them as "garbage dogs....worn out by loebs dominance" above, so you can't also say that beating them was any kind of achievement.

when you say past their prime you mean Mcrae at 34 ? Sainz/Makinen ects at an age when Loeb at that agr was winning championships and stages from the current champ still ? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

as i said Loeb for a few years faced and ridiculed solid champions and competition then after 2010 onward the competition was a farce including Mr Ogier.... unfortunately Ogier doesn't have a chance to do that yet...

Do not get me wrong Ogier could be very well a worthy challenger... but just a challenger...

[danon]

http://s27.postimg.org/e4yfm9rrn/sh1_3.jpg

[stefanvv]

All of the ex-world champions Loeb faced (Sainz, McRae, Makinen) were WELL past their prime by the time he arrived on the scene, with the exception of Gronholm and Solberg, so lets not get carried away. Sadly, we never really got the chance to see what would have happened vs Burns. After Gronholm retired in 2007, Loeb faced practically no competition, just like Ogier now. As for Latvala/Hirvonen, you just referred to them as "garbage dogs....worn out by loebs dominance" above, so you can't also say that beating them was any kind of achievement.

I agree. After Grohnolm it was veeeeeeeery boring. Hirvonen never became true competitor, and Latvala, eeeeeh, still struggling to find himself. Ogier became a danger and was kicked out of Citroen, or he just kicked out himself, doesn't matter.

[KKS]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_nKNBeXAAAB6Ax.jpg

[KKS]

Typical Sweden landscape from Mexico highlights https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QfKJXxQrj8&feature=youtu.be
http://i.piccy.info/i9/6ab18dd0bd294d0121c6a420258a1c60/1425860289/118725/744543/vlcsnap_2015_03_09_02h17m44s39.jpg

[the sniper]

Good job by WRC Promoter here, they've stuck the Rally Sweden result on the end of their Stages 19 to 21 video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QfKJXxQrj8

Only 1m 21s of video, and they managed to screw it up...

EDIT: I was too slow getting the link. :P

[KKS]

Ogier became a danger and was kicked out of Citroen, or he just kicked out himself, doesn't matter.

You know what happend... some guy did a bad choice, and choicemaker and choiser was leave a team at the end of 2011.

[KKS]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6i5kjeltUs&feature=youtu.be&a - borl

[Mk2 RS2000]

Credit where credit is due, Loeb has been a worthy world champion but he has yet to win the East African Safari and an event similar to the London to Mexico Rally. Hanau won all three.

[EstWRC]

very nice gallery from estonian photographer http://jree.ee/gallery/wrc-rally-mexico/

[A FONDO]

that guy marduk with pure sound clips

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRAeSCbAHgk - day 4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PGKDDc28uc - highlights from the whole rally

[N.O.T]

credit where credit is due, loeb has been a worthy world champion but he has yet to win the east african safari and an event similar to the london to mexico rally. Hanau won all three.

lol...

[KKS]

Not many in stages videos from Mexico :(
And even no video with WRC2 cars.... shame

[latek]

Evans:

[stefanvv]

VW the final video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVkm27GLQIw

[stefanvv]

Another Fiesta story - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TisGSxAcMuI

[stefanvv]

Not many in stages videos from Mexico :(
And even no video with WRC2 cars.... shame

Here is 1, there is wrc2 in there as well - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lguQsh3WGsY

[dimviii]

Mikkelsens spin including at ps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXyoUq17wCw

[AL14]

During lunch break I was watching Ogier onboard on PS compared to others, especially his teammates, and I struggle to understand where he gained so much time. I could be completely wrong but it seemed to me that he was able to take the car straight when going out a corner while others were a bit more "nervous" and that he had more speed in general, meaning that maybe it had a different setup with more traction than others.
But really, this can be totally wrong, did you notice something similar?

[jarauto2]

Your join date is Jan 2015, so propably You don't know what "nose end first" is:D

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_rHfaHUYAAenN7.jpg

[stefanvv]

Your join date is Jan 2015, so propably You don't know what "nose end first" is:D

what about it?

[AL14]

Your join date is Jan 2015, so propably You don't know what "nose end first" is:D

Everyone was mentioning it everytime so I found the thread and read a bit through it, so I'm aware about it. Do you guys want to speak about it again? ;)

[stefanvv]

imo Ogier gains in braking, not NEF.

[dimviii]

I agree. After Grohnolm it was veeeeeeeery boring. Hirvonen never became true competitor,

yes sure.. lets see year by year how true competitor was with facts.

2007 3rd 17 points from Loeb and 13 points from Gronholm

http://www.ewrc-results.com/season.php?s=2007&nat=0

2008 2nd 19 points to Loeb

http://www.ewrc-results.com/season.php?s=2008&nat=0

2009 2nd 1 point from Loeb

http://www.ewrc-results.com/season.php?s=2009&nat=0

2011 2nd 8 points from Loeb and 16 points ahead from Ogier(the year that Ogier wanted No1 from citroen against Loeb)

http://www.ewrc-results.com/season.php?s=2011&nat=0

2012 2nd 57 points from Loeb(270 vs 213)

http://www.ewrc-results.com/season.php?s=2012&nat=0




and Latvala, eeeeeh, still struggling to find himself.
he is the best competitor to Ogier last year 2nd at championship that you find with enough competition.


Ogier became a danger and was kicked out of Citroen, or he just kicked out himself, doesn't matter.
he kicked himself outside from citroen due to well known reasons.
Became a danger for citroen image with his ridicoulus interviews for sure.For Loeb no,he beated him even with cleaning all gravel rallies and without moaning.

[Lundefaret]

During lunch break I was watching Ogier onboard on PS compared to others, especially his teammates, and I struggle to understand where he gained so much time. I could be completely wrong but it seemed to me that he was able to take the car straight when going out a corner while others were a bit more "nervous" and that he had more speed in general, meaning that maybe it had a different setup with more traction than others.
But really, this can be totally wrong, did you notice something similar?

A VERY good observation! It is a lot of factors that needs to coincide to be able to straight-line-accelerate. Pace notes, the placing of the apex, curve radius strategy, etc etc, but it ends up in having the optimum acceleration out of a corner, versus having the highest minimum speed in the corner. Keeping the nose in the direction of wanted travel. "Nose End First."

[N.O.T]

well done AL14... i am proud of you.

[stefanvv]

yes sure.. lets see year by year how true competitor was with facts.

2007 3rd 17 points from Loeb and 13 points from Gronholm

http://www.ewrc-results.com/season.php?s=2007&nat=0

2008 2nd 19 points to Loeb

http://www.ewrc-results.com/season.php?s=2008&nat=0

2009 2nd 1 point from Loeb

http://www.ewrc-results.com/season.php?s=2009&nat=0

2011 2nd 8 points from Loeb and 16 points ahead from Ogier(the year that Ogier wanted No1 from citroen against Loeb)

http://www.ewrc-results.com/season.php?s=2011&nat=0

2012 2nd 57 points from Loeb(270 vs 213)

http://www.ewrc-results.com/season.php?s=2012&nat=0

yes, and? I may presume 2009 is the highlight from these numbers. That year he and Loeb have 1 retirement each, Loeb rally2 in Poland and a big penalty in Italy. Pace wise Hirvonen is not very close to him. Yes, he is good collecting as much points as he can, a admire him for that, but not head-to-head battles with Loeb. And I was talking about pace, not points and rally2 minutes.


he is the best competitor to Ogier last year 2nd at championship that you find with enough competition.

You talk about last year, I talk about pace in last 2 rallies.


he kicked himself outside from citroen due to well known reasons.
Became a danger for citroen image with his ridicoulus interviews for sure.For Loeb no,he beated him even with cleaning all gravel rallies and without moaning.

right, and now he ridicules VW I guess.

[A FONDO]

http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/0fa510b2f6630a7b80e227d77c7679f3.jpg

[dimviii]

yes, and? I may presume 2009 is the highlight from these numbers. That year he and Loeb have 1 retirement each, Loeb rally2 in Poland and a big penalty in Italy. Pace wise Hirvonen is not very close to him. Yes, he is good collecting as much points as he can, a admire him for that, but not head-to-head battles with Loeb. And I was talking about pace, not points and rally2 minutes.
whatever you choose to compare Mikko was better than current drivers.Faster and almost always finishing his rallies.
Today most of them cant finish a rally even 1 minute slower from Ogier.




You talk about last year, I talk about pace in last 2 rallies.
even at last 2 rallies there wasn t any competition.Same like last year.




right, and now he ridicules VW I guess.
no only himself.

[AL14]

Ogier reads this forum apparently. :)

Now he's become a gentleman:
"[...] I don't want it to sound arrogant but I really did not push too hard at all. Maybe the roads are made for me..."

[dimviii]

^^lol^^

Νeuville ss 21 incar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_qufiFBQDA

[Mintexmemory]

he kicked himself outside from citroen due to well known reasons.
Became a danger for citroen image with his ridicoulus interviews for sure.For Loeb no,he beated him even with cleaning all gravel rallies and without moaning.

Once again opinion masquerading as fact. Citroen showed Ogier that only one Seb was the favoured one and ensured they loused up the long term plan. Sabotaging Ogier in Spain to give Loeb an advantage you keep claiming he didn't need was the act of a team that had lost sight of reality. That one move, ensured Ogier would become their main competition and threw him into the arms of VW. Clearly Loeb wasn't about to stay around for a complete season against Ogier when he had no chance of team intervention! My opinion and just as valid as your litany!

[N.O.T]

Once again opinion masquerading as fact. Citroen showed Ogier that only one Seb was the favoured one and ensured they loused up the long term plan. Sabotaging Ogier in Spain to give Loeb an advantage you keep claiming he didn't need was the act of a team that had lost sight of reality. That one move, ensured Ogier would become their main competition and threw him into the arms of VW. Clearly Loeb wasn't about to stay around for a complete season against Ogier when he had no chance of team intervention! My opinion and just as valid as your litany!

what long term plan ??? Citroen knew that Loebs retirement was imminent and their withdrawal also...

Ogier would end up to VW either way due to financial reasons

so citroen went for the best motorsport driver of all times instead of a nuisance that he could not even beat a washed up Hirvonen...

it is good the ladyboy championship starts this weekend so less and less people are going to bother us with their ignorance in here...

[Lundefaret]

Once again opinion masquerading as fact. Citroen showed Ogier that only one Seb was the favoured one and ensured they loused up the long term plan. Sabotaging Ogier in Spain to give Loeb an advantage you keep claiming he didn't need was the act of a team that had lost sight of reality. That one move, ensured Ogier would become their main competition and threw him into the arms of VW. Clearly Loeb wasn't about to stay around for a complete season against Ogier when he had no chance of team intervention! My opinion and just as valid as your litany!

I think the Ogier vs Loeb battle had several sides to the story. Loeb had an "agreement" with Citroën, and Ogier that he should be the number one driver. This way he could take an active part in giving out information to Ogier, not fearing that this should be used against him in the championship. Ogier had an "agreement" with the team that he should be treated equal to Loeb. It was planned that Loeb would quit after the 2011 season, for Ogier to take over as the Nr 1 driver in 2012 - and he was VERY eager to do this. After some controversy whit in the team the "final blow" came when it was announced that Loeb was in for one more season. Now it was two fronts in the Citroën team (the old vs the new), wich ended up at board level. The Loeb-side had the most influence, and Ogier was told his place, and it ended in the team principal Quesnel even having to quit. I think this made it very easy for Ogier to quit, even if that made him having to run a complete season in S2000 as the Volkswagen Polo WRC was developed.
Who was right, who was wrong? Not easy to say, always more than one side to the story. But Citroën would have been a lot more victorious from 2013 and onward if they had kept Ogier, thats for sure.

[Mintexmemory]

it is good the ladyboy championship starts this weekend so less and less people are going to bother us with their ignorance in here...

You never let that stand in your way! - As for Citroen withdrawing, the corpse is taking a long while to stop twitching!

[N.O.T]

I think the Ogier vs Loeb battle had several sides to the story. Loeb had an "agreement" with Citroën, and Ogier that he should be the number one driver. This way he could take an active part in giving out information to Ogier, not fearing that this should be used against him in the championship. Ogier had an "agreement" with the team that he should be treated equal to Loeb. It was planned that Loeb would quit after the 2011 season, for Ogier to take over as the Nr 1 driver in 2012 - and he was VERY eager to do this. After some controversy whit in the team the "final blow" came when it was announced that Loeb was in for one more season. Now it was two fronts in the Citroën team (the old vs the new), wich ended up at board level. The Loeb-side had the most influence, and Ogier was told his place, and it ended in the team principal Quesnel even having to quit. I think this made it very easy for Ogier to quit, even if that made him having to run a complete season in S2000 as the Volkswagen Polo WRC was developed.
Who was right, who was wrong? Not easy to say, always more than one side to the story. But Citroën would have been a lot more victorious from 2013 and onward if they had kept Ogier, thats for sure.

Quesnel was kicked out like a a fleabag dog he was after the acropolis antics... he did not quit...

[macebig]

You can say whatever you want about Citroen but the truth is that sticking to Loeb for so much time has now turned against them.First they sack Ogier so as the golden one to win another championship and on top of that they screw Neuville by making a cut down offer for 2013 just to milk 4 more rallies by Monsieur Loeb.The truth is Citroen has only themselves to blame for their current situation and not thinking about their future in 2011 and 2012.Having either one of Ogier,Neuville or even both of them now and could have kept winning for at least a decade.

[N.O.T]

You can say whatever you want about Citroen but the truth is that sticking to Loeb for so much time has now turned against them.First they sack Ogier so as the golden one to win another championship and on top of that they screw Neuville by making a cut down offer for 2013 just to milk 4 more rallies by Monsieur Loeb.The truth is Citroen has only themselves to blame for their current situation and not thinking about their future in 2011 and 2012.Having either one of Ogier,Neuville or even both of them now and could have kept winning for at least a decade.

Citroen would not have the budget to pay for Ogier after the retirement of Loeb...

let me guess your nationality... US,NZ or OZ ???

[stefanvv]

A VERY good observation! It is a lot of factors that needs to coincide to be able to straight-line-accelerate. Pace notes, the placing of the apex, curve radius strategy, etc etc, but it ends up in having the optimum acceleration out of a corner, versus having the highest minimum speed in the corner. Keeping the nose in the direction of wanted travel. "Nose End First."

So it is not NEF the problem. Some drivers are doing it, they put the car's nose in the wanted direction, it is just that direction is different from driver to driver. Is that answers Your question AL14?

[stefanvv]

Ogier reads this forum apparently. :)

Now he's become a gentleman:
"[...] I don't want it to sound arrogant but I really did not push too hard at all. Maybe the roads are made for me..."

Yes he reads it, and it paid off. Now he sounds even more arrogant.

[rayh_mx]

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8622/16586214759_725dd56be4_z.jpg


Some pics https://www.flickr.com/photos/94035673@N05/

[AL14]

So it is not NEF the problem. Some drivers are doing it, they put the car's nose in the wanted direction, it is just that direction is different from driver to driver. Is that answers Your question AL14?

I think NOT will kill me if I answer this question :D but honestly I can only guess since I've never driven a race car in my life and I'm never been a motorsport fan since one year ago, plus I only like rally and no other motorsport. But it sounds natural for me that putting the car in the right direction and in a straight line when going out of a corner gives you a benefit in term of speed, I can't see anything to discuss about. I'm sure every driver is looking for it. It's just that Ogier has been able to do it better than others. I was just trying to see where he was faster.

[Lundefaret]

I think NOT will kill me if I answer this question :D but honestly I can only guess since I've never driven a race car in my life and I'm never been a motorsport fan since one year ago, plus I only like rally and no other motorsport. But it sounds natural for me that putting the car in the right direction and in a straight line when going out of a corner gives you a benefit in term of speed, I can't see anything to discuss about. I'm sure every driver is looking for it. It's just that Ogier has been able to do it better than others. I was just trying to see where he was faster.

Why are You so afraid of N.O.T. ?

[AL14]

Why are You so afraid of N.O.T. ?

Lol, it's just sarcastic, ;) in fact I've answered the question.

[Rallyper]

NEF has its own topic. Just posted a quote there.

[stefanvv]

I think NOT will kill me if I answer this question :D but honestly I can only guess since I've never driven a race car in my life and I'm never been a motorsport fan since one year ago, plus I only like rally and no other motorsport. But it sounds natural for me that putting the car in the right direction and in a straight line when going out of a corner gives you a benefit in term of speed, I can't see anything to discuss about. I'm sure every driver is looking for it. It's just that Ogier has been able to do it better than others. I was just trying to see where he was faster.

It's difficult to say exactly how Ogier got this advantage on PS, but You picked the right stage for comparison. Seemed neither of Latvala, Neuville nor Mikkelsen can do more about what they did. This stage was run for 3rd time and I guess Ogier had more than enough time to concentrate how to polish his driving and marks his braking zones on PS, rather than battling with someone else at the same time. Yes, probably they lost few tenths here and there throwing the car a little more than necessary, and Ogier did really clean drive, very precise and very fast.

[Muchonen]

Citroen would not have the budget to pay for Ogier after the retirement of Loeb...


I don't know details about sponsor contracts but wasn't Loeb retirement one of factor that Abu Dhabi cut off some money? Secondly they did not have challenging driver onboard. As I said I do not know much about it , so if any of u have info about it I'd like to know it.

[N.O.T]

I don't know details about sponsor contracts but wasn't Loeb retirement one of factor that Abu Dhabi cut off some money? Secondly they did not have challenging driver onboard. As I said I do not know much about it , so if any of u have info about it I'd like to know it.

Abu dhabi was just a sponsor when Loeb was in the team... the money flow came from the PSA group.

When Loeb left, the team withdrew and now lives just because of Abu dhabi with no development work and no proper driver contracts... There would be no chance that Citroen could Afford Ogier especially with the contracts VW were offering...

[PLuto]

I don't know details about sponsor contracts but wasn't Loeb retirement one of factor that Abu Dhabi cut off some money? Secondly they did not have challenging driver onboard. As I said I do not know much about it , so if any of u have info about it I'd like to know it.

No, Loeb easily retired because he wanted...

[rayh_mx]

this was in the second pass

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_rHfaHUYAAenN7.jpg

but in the first one
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8716/16587907590_2b84441c6b_z.jpg

[PLuto]

And even no video with WRC2 cars.... shame

This is normal... And thats the reason why everybody is doing WRC2 ;)

[macebig]

Abu dhabi was just a sponsor when Loeb was in the team... the money flow came from the PSA group.

When Loeb left, the team withdrew and now lives just because of Abu dhabi with no development work and no proper driver contracts... There would be no chance that Citroen could Afford Ogier especially with the contracts VW were offering...
m.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96263 Ogier was under contract until December 2013...

[macebig]

And dont forget that they lost Neuville for 4 rallies.

[N.O.T]

m.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96263 Ogier was under contract until December 2013...

contracts mean nothing... they break easily Solberg had a longterm contract and was left cold when subaru left...

[rallyfiend]

contracts mean nothing... they break easily Solberg had a longterm contract and was left cold when subaru left...

And he and Atkinson got paid out their contracts.

[macebig]

Hindsight is 20/20 but Citroen was here in December 2013 and also Solberg had only 1 year left in his contract when Subaru quitted and as rallyfiend said it was payed out.

[Muchonen]

Abu dhabi was just a sponsor when Loeb was in the team... the money flow came from the PSA group.



When Loeb left, the team withdrew and now lives just because of Abu dhabi with no development work and no proper driver contracts... There would be no chance that Citroen could Afford Ogier especially with the contracts VW were offering...

Right, forgot about developing the WTCC program. My nad.

[dimviii]

Neuville

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_xFtijW8AE-0th.jpg

[Karukera]

Neuville

Cliffhanger

http://www.breageeknews.fr/uploads/news/news_illustre_1401402474_234.jpg

WRC 2015, avalanche of thrills...

[KKS]

This is normal... And thats the reason why everybody is doing WRC2 ;)

In this case I can drive my old Porsche at backyard, even anybody doesn't see this. Why I should spend a lot of money for WRC2?

[dimviii]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118090

[mrakili]

I agree with the organisers. There should be some (maybe 2-3) tough endurance rallys on the calendar. It makes the championship even harder. But i fear that nowadays cars and drivers are so fragile to chrasing that the only one finishing the event without super rally would be Ogier.