Rallye Deutschland 2014

[HaCo]

Bouffier crash on PS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2mmstOhLTQ

[Jafry]

More photos HERE: http://www.rally-mania.cz/photogallery.php?id=1292

[Langdale Forest]

Nueville has repeated what Petter Solberg did in Corsica 2003, crash on shakedown and go on to win the rally.

[J.Lindstroem]

Well, I must say quotes like this one makes automatically the person who wrote out of the forum.

I don't think so, mate!

[Rallyper]

I don't think so, mate!

Having said like you did for many it´s too much. Du får försöka uppträda mer städat.

[Motorsportfun]

Congratulations to Neuville and Evans, fantastic job they did and I am so glad that we have such promising "youngsters".

Tidemand also deserves applauses.

Agree, They're gonna be the next "big things" in few years!

It's just a shame for Meeke, he really deserved a podium finish. :(

[J.Lindstroem]

Having said like you did for many it´s too much. Du får försöka uppträda mer städat.

Då är det ju tur att jag har en så proper och välartad landsman som du att ta lärdom av.

[stefanvv]

Whoa, what a Rally! I kind of agree with Lundefaret Latavala & Meeke coloured this one with great drives, yes, shame for the retirements, but the very positive side is for what we watched from them 2 days. Posistives for Neuvile & Evans as well, well done.

Pikem results should be fun.

[J.Lindstroem]

Great rally. Congratulations to Neuville as well as Huyndai. They tried for many many years in the late 90's and early 00's and got nothing so its great for them to achieve this result in their first season! I hope for more in the future!

[hari]

Some images from this Weekend:
http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos_bestof_wrc_rallye_deutschland_2014.php

What a great rally again.

http://www.ir7.at/g14f.jpg

[janvanvurpa]

All I see are polar bears and penguins in a zoo


No! That's not the TV, that's the window!

[Motorsportfun]

It seems VW was ready to celebrate the Manufacturers title, but instead they donated their confetti to Hyundai!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bv0mCQyCUAAB3Lr.jpg

Pic by Julian Porter

[Andre Oliveira]

Photos here (http://ewrc-results.com/foto.php?e=13899&t=ADAC-Rallye-Deutschland-2014)

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2014/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2014/msc_nq3p2320.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2014/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2014/msc_nq3p2253.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2014/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2014/msc_nq3p3260.jpg

[Andre Oliveira]

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2014/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2014/msc_nq3p2637.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2014/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2014/msc_nq3p3241.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2014/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2014/msc_nq3p2948.jpg

[gianni123]

Video Online

WRC Rally Deutschland + Mistakes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dByhv-tCZQk

[Nornbugger]

I know i bore You with my insights, but one question I have to ask You: Knowing that all three leaders except Neuville went of in dramatic accidents, would You say that that speed was sustainable?

Given Meekes was a note error I think its reasonable to assume that his speed otherwise was sustainable. I also think Latvalas off was a result of mental pressure not driving approach.

You give yourself points for Mikkelsen getting 3rd, sure he got it but damned sure he didnt fight for it as you predicted, it was gift wrapped and given to him on a plate.

I have enjoyed reading your 'nose end 1st' thread but IMHO you come across as a bit cocky about your own wisdom with your on event analysis.

[stefanvv]

World champ vs World champ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbMqFcbSJTY

[noel157]

Didn't see these posted:

Latvala and Meeke off https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6MJjO87JUI&list=PLVyRAt2cxbxvvvW4MEXexl6uI1GClS6ca#t=103

Latvala again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIxZg5rO12I&list=PLVyRAt2cxbxvvvW4MEXexl6uI1GClS6ca#t=27

And again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35hPuH2_iYE&list=PLVyRAt2cxbxvvvW4MEXexl6uI1GClS6ca#t=68

Hard not to feel sorry for Latvala in those pictures.

Apologies if already up.

[stefanvv]

I just watched the event highlights and both offs, Latavala's seemed a bit overdriving on a muddy long left corner (Mikkelsen had spin there too, but got away). While Meeke and Naggle seemed little nervous at the next stage as leaders and probably it was co-driver error.

[MartijnS]

Thanks for posting Andre! ;)

More of that at our Facebook Page (http://facebook.com/rallymedia) or our Website (http://www.rallymedia.nl/images/2014/rallyedeutschland/rallyedeutschland.html) !

http://www.rallymedia.nl/images/2014/rallyedeutschland/00449793.jpg

http://www.rallymedia.nl/images/2014/rallyedeutschland/07823752.jpg

We went for 3 days. Shakedown isn't that a great a stage, but was not bad either.
Friday we did 4 stages; Quite a nice spot at the first stage, fast cut right. Some dusty small country side road. After that to an almost flat out straight at Moselland. Bit more boring than we thought it would be.
Than back to the same part of the first stage, only than in the forest just after our spot in the morning. Difficult for photos, but nice action. Hairpin left and after that a bit muddy first right where most WRC's got oversteer. Good action. Than back to the final stage of the day, standard hairpin right.

Saturday we started at the first stage again. Difficult stage to find a decent spot. We drove it before and hardly came up with 1 spot where we've been before. Fast right, small cut. Not much going on but it looks okay on the photos. Than to the Panzerplatte, new part of the stage for us. Nice quite part with not much spectators. Like it a lot over there, they should drive a whole day on that place!
Back to Petersberg instead of Stein & Wein than, fast spot, raining for the first time, so nice spray behind the cars. Glad it rained otherwise it would not have been very interesting. Than back to the Panzerplatte again as the last stage for us. Good spot again, great light, some Hinkelsteins and than back home.

So shakedown, showstart (always nice there) and 8 stages. Quite difficult to compare to Finland, but still always great to see the WRC.

[noel157]

Heavy handed marshalls fighting with spectators overs Nasser's car. Any rally I've been to marshall's help not fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1-9csVeoLc&index=34&list=PLVyRAt2cxbxvvvW4MEXexl6uI1GClS6ca

[tommeke_B]

Some resume from my side... :)

Decided to do a short Germany-trip only last week, left after work on friday to arrive on the last stage of the first day. Since I could do only a bit more than half of the rally I decided to not take any photos this time (first time in 8 years, and back then I was only 14 years old). It was a very nice experience, in some way a much more pure way of experiencing the rally and the action/atmosphere, when you don't have to bother about right point of view/settings etc for photos. :)

On friday we did the last stage. Arrived on a technical place in the wineyards. A right corner into braking for long left with small cut (3rd gear) into long right (also 3rd gear) around wall. There was a visible difference between the drivers and cars there. For example Ostberg's car was way too soft, it was really diving in the braking and in that 2nd right corner you could see the chassis diving again, putting all pressure to the outer wheels. Same applied for practically all privateers. All other factory cars appeared to have a very hard setup, especially VW's were impressive. They are taking the corners a little quicker than most others and the chassis isn't moving a thing! From drivers I remember mostly Latvala looking quickest (very clean style) and Sordo really attacking, arriving sideways in braking for the corner, and being very early on the throttle which makes him going quite sideways in the exit. Not sure if Sordo's approach was the best one...

On saturday we started off in a fast right corner with cut in the wineyards on Stein&Wein. It was a good place, most drivers were a little sideways in the exit. It was interesting how some drivers (for example Meeke, Bouffier and Neuville) were taking a huge cut and driving over some metal parts (that keep the vines on place and straight). I was a bit surprised nobody punctured on this... After the first WRC2 cars we went to Panzerplatte, somewhere halfway the stage. We were in a fast downhill combination of turns: right(cut)-left(cut) before big twisty braking into hairpin left, it was on normal asphalt, no "panzer-concrete". The road was damp/wet (later on). It was interesting to see the crazy stability of the VW again. In the first right corner, the cut was a bit lower than the asphalt. When the cars exited the cut, most got some bump from it. For example Meeke went completely sideways and had to correct. The Ford's and Hyndai's could cope with it better than the Citroëns. But when you see the VW's, you see nothing, no movement at all as if this edge isn't there for them... On another level the same can be applied on the Opel Adam R2's, it's incredible how stable these cars are compared to the Fiesta R2's. On this place the braking for the hairpin was nice to see as well, interesting comparison between the big men and the "boys". For example Protasov was throwing his car sideways from one side to the other, to get the corner, which was really spectacular to see, but for sure not the fastest way.

In the second loop we started with Stein&Wein again, a place between trees. Some 90° right turn (with a dirty cut), with 50m after that a quick right turn (with dirty cut again) that was just slow enough to require the cars to brake a little before it. It was nice to see how sideways the cars went in the accelerating from both corners. Some funny moment there when some spectator wanted to put his phone IN the cut of the fast corner, to make a video exactly between where the wheels of the previous cars went. The first time no harm, the second attempt Meeke ran over the phone. He had a laugh about it until he picked up the phone and saw it became quite useless. The look on his face made it even more funny for anyone else who was watching it happen. :D A bit later some other guy wanted to put a gopro in the outside/exit of the corner, some 20cm away from the widest line so far. Sordo missed the entry of the corner a bit, went wide and gave the little thing a full strike and went wide into the grass, not that far away from some trees that could have taken him out. After that we went to Panzerplatte, to a long right (tightens a bit) downhill, with some bump in the braking. The cars were quite stable when going over the bump. Only Kremer-FabiaS2000 almost had some moment. Many drivers were blocking their wheels when braking before the bump already, especially DS3 R3's and Fiesta R2's. Latvala and Neuville were really impressive to see there. Neuville's car had quite a lot of understeer in the corner.

On sunday morning we did SS Grafshaft-Veldenz. Not too much special on this place, some quick corners in the wineyards. There was some cut in wet grass, but noone of the drivers seemed to be interested to take it. It was probably quicker to stay on the road in this occasion... After that we went to SS Dhrontal, just to watch the WRC cars. We were in a combination of: fast right (little bump), fast left (cut), fast right (don't cut). Mikkelsen had a little moment there, very spectacular place, probably the only occasion where we could see all WRC cars going sideways at high speed. After that we left to the stop of the powerstage. We were behind the stop-line, but the stage made almost some square around the place, which made it possible to follow the cars for the last little part of the stage. It was great to be between hundreds of Neuville-fans and being surrounded by plenty of Belgian flags. The tension was somehow building up when he had to arrive. The tension started building up when Neuville had to come, and it was a great moment when everyone saw Neuville emerge in the wineyard and become somewhat crazy. It's hard to describe but as someone who is following him since one of his first events and always believed in his talent, it's amazing to see him win in WRC (even with some luck). :)

Some remarks about a few drivers. Big thumbs up for Elfyn Evans, he did a really good event. Fortunately he proves to be a better driver on asphalt than on gravel. Pontus Tidemand did a great event, especially regarding how little he drove so far this year. If Wilson wants to take a gamble and put another youngster in one of the Fiesta WRC cars, he has found the right driver! Hirvonen was a bit invisible again, he's there, but it's nothing more than that. I think this could be his last WRC season... With the DS3's Camilli was incredibly quick before he retired. Also his lines were very clean and tidy, better than any other DS3-driver. Seen him a couple of times before in French rallies, and believe he is a driver to keep an eye on, could be "the next big thing"... In DMack Trophy Lemes was clearly the better driver of all, the thing that's keeping him down (for so long already) is his brutal way of driving.

Concerning safety I would also like to say some word... Normally nobody who's involved is reading this, but still... On many places (even the safest ones) you were not allowed to stand. For example on a 2m high wall before a corner it was a no-go, while there was a public area behind the corner, forcing all spectators to be packed like sheep, having to lean over to see the cars... On other places there was no safety at all, people were in the exit of corners, we've seen people standing on places where it could end up really ugly in case of crashes. In some occasions German marshalls are really rude (luckily we didn't encounter many of these people). By not allowing anything to spectators on public areas the organizers are forcing spectators to search for places without marshalls. On the long run this could make Rallye Deutschland even more dangerous than it was last year...

[AndyRAC]

Given Meeke's was a note error I think its reasonable to assume that his speed otherwise was sustainable. I also think Latvalas off was a result of mental pressure not driving approach.

You give yourself points for Mikkelsen getting 3rd, sure he got it but damned sure he didnt fight for it as you predicted, it was gift wrapped and given to him on a plate.

I have enjoyed reading your 'nose end 1st' thread but IMHO you come across as a bit cocky about your own wisdom with your on event analysis.


Latvala had a lead of a minute; he had no need to be pushing - just bring it home. He still needs to sort out his 'event management'. Meeke was slightly unlucky I feel; he didn't seem to be over driving and seemingly was driving at a fast, but safe speed. A sad time to have a pace note error.... He'll back back, stronger I'm sure.

[darkstar]

i´ve just watched stage 15 onboard from meeke. i recommend anyone who has wrc+ to watch that. i think it´s the most crazy onboard i´ve ever seen. flatout all the time. one proper off without damage pretty much at the start and 3 more crazy high speed closecalls plus one in a slower corner during the stage. i can not believe he really thought he can go on with that kind of driving on the next stage. the crash had to come! but wow, balls of steel, absolutely crazy guy!

in comparison latvala was driving like a grandpa...

[noel157]

i´ve just watched stage 15 onboard from meeke. i recommend anyone who has wrc+ to watch that. i think it´s the most crazy onboard i´ve ever seen. flatout all the time. one proper off without damage pretty much at the start and 3 more crazy high speed closecalls plus one in a slower corner during the stage. i can not believe he really thought he can go on with that kind of driving on the next stage. the crash had to come! but wow, balls of steel, absolutely crazy guy!

in comparison latvala was driving like a grandpa...

That's his "comfort zone", has always been like that and no doubt with a slower note on the corner he retired he would've won. But it's a nervous job following him at times on a rally.

[Roy]

Great victory in WRC4 for Griebel, he was dominating the debate's during the whole weekend. Good for the Opel Adam, who seem to be well faster as the Fiesta's.;)

Griebel was faster indeed. A lot. With Kreim he was he the only driver who beat the Fiesta's. Maybe with local knowledge of the route, but they where on Michelin tyres. The fiesta's where on the DMACK. And these are not good enough on tarmac.

[bassist]

Heavy handed marshalls fighting with spectators overs Nasser's car. Any rally I've been to marshall's help not fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1-9csVeoLc&index=34&list=PLVyRAt2cxbxvvvW4MEXexl6uI1GClS6ca
What the hell was going on there?

[Franky]

What the hell was going on there?

Authority + no idea how things operate = 90% guaranteed idiocy

[Doon]

That's his "comfort zone", has always been like that and no doubt with a slower note on the corner he retired he would've won. But it's a nervous job following him at times on a rally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLptg6BYNoo

He's always been the same, just look at this ^ His asphalt skills are astonishing.

Notice at 02:50 he says 'sensor problem'. Meeke is not just a fast driver but probably the most knowledgeable WRC on the engineering side. I know a lady who has massive experience in preparing/running Peugeots and Citroens; she said the Citroen guys thought Meeke was the most mechanically minded and naturally talented driver they had ever worked with, always listening for mechanical issues and hugely sympathetic towards the car.

He will win. Hopefully in Wales. He knows the stages from the 106 Challenge / BRC days, and has tackled the event a couple of times in WRC cars.

As rally fans we should support him no end, as he is the best hope of breaking the VW dominance that is making our sport pretty dull.

Neuville is also awesome, but despite this win, the car is not up to speed compared to VW. Let's not pretend!

[N.O.T]

None can win with both VWs in the rally and going for it... they do not have the speed and they do not have the equipment...

[Rallyper]

Då är det ju tur att jag har en så proper och välartad landsman som du att ta lärdom av.

Absolut. Gäller att uppföra sig om man ska vara trovärdig.

[Doon]

None can win with both VWs in the rally and going for it... they do not have the speed and they do not have the equipment...

Meeke has proven that he can take the fight, to the VWs, with more experience. He still needs more time in the car. The VWs are definitely faster thought, anyone who argues that point is insane. You must agree though, if the Citroen is slower, coupled with his lack of experience, that Meeke can be the fastest driver. He's older than the rest but he must still be on the list for Hyundai, VW, Citroen and M-sport for 2015. He is the 3rd fastest driver in the 4th fastest car ;) (i.e. Ogier, Latvala and Mikkelsen's cars are all faster)

[Roy]

None can win with both VWs in the rally and going for it... they do not have the speed and they do not have the equipment...

VW was in the rally, but the drivers can't manage the Germany stages. The best (=fast and reliable) driver wins.
If a team have the best equipment, but no drivers who can manage it... They become losers (for now) because the biggest car company of the world is German. In Rally of Germany these manufacturer is a farce! Ouch!

[stefanvv]

VW was in the rally, but the drivers can't manage the Germany stages. The best (=fast and reliable) driver wins.
If a team have the best equipment, but no drivers who can manage it... They become losers (for now) because the biggest car company of the world is German. In Rally of Germany these manufacturer is a farce! Ouch!

You are greatly mistaken, neither the manufacturer or drivers are farce

[Rallyper]

Some resume from my side... :)

Decided to do a short Germany-trip only last week, left after work on friday to arrive on the last stage of the first day. Since I could do only a bit more than half of the rally I decided to not take any photos this time (first time in 8 years, and back then I was only 14 years old). It was a very nice experience, in some way a much more pure way of experiencing the rally and the action/atmosphere, when you don't have to bother about right point of view/settings etc for photos. :)

On friday we did the last stage. Arrived on a technical place in the wineyards. A right corner into braking for long left with small cut (3rd gear) into long right (also 3rd gear) around wall. There was a visible difference between the drivers and cars there. For example Ostberg's car was way too soft, it was really diving in the braking and in that 2nd right corner you could see the chassis diving again, putting all pressure to the outer wheels. Same applied for practically all privateers. All other factory cars appeared to have a very hard setup, especially VW's were impressive. They are taking the corners a little quicker than most others and the chassis isn't moving a thing! From drivers I remember mostly Latvala looking quickest (very clean style) and Sordo really attacking, arriving sideways in braking for the corner, and being very early on the throttle which makes him going quite sideways in the exit. Not sure if Sordo's approach was the best one...

On saturday we started off in a fast right corner with cut in the wineyards on Stein&Wein. It was a good place, most drivers were a little sideways in the exit. It was interesting how some drivers (for example Meeke, Bouffier and Neuville) were taking a huge cut and driving over some metal parts (that keep the vines on place and straight). I was a bit surprised nobody punctured on this... After the first WRC2 cars we went to Panzerplatte, somewhere halfway the stage. We were in a fast downhill combination of turns: right(cut)-left(cut) before big twisty braking into hairpin left, it was on normal asphalt, no "panzer-concrete". The road was damp/wet (later on). It was interesting to see the crazy stability of the VW again. In the first right corner, the cut was a bit lower than the asphalt. When the cars exited the cut, most got some bump from it. For example Meeke went completely sideways and had to correct. The Ford's and Hyndai's could cope with it better than the Citroëns. But when you see the VW's, you see nothing, no movement at all as if this edge isn't there for them... On another level the same can be applied on the Opel Adam R2's, it's incredible how stable these cars are compared to the Fiesta R2's. On this place the braking for the hairpin was nice to see as well, interesting comparison between the big men and the "boys". For example Protasov was throwing his car sideways from one side to the other, to get the corner, which was really spectacular to see, but for sure not the fastest way.

In the second loop we started with Stein&Wein again, a place between trees. Some 90° right turn (with a dirty cut), with 50m after that a quick right turn (with dirty cut again) that was just slow enough to require the cars to brake a little before it. It was nice to see how sideways the cars went in the accelerating from both corners. Some funny moment there when some spectator wanted to put his phone IN the cut of the fast corner, to make a video exactly between where the wheels of the previous cars went. The first time no harm, the second attempt Meeke ran over the phone. He had a laugh about it until he picked up the phone and saw it became quite useless. The look on his face made it even more funny for anyone else who was watching it happen. :D A bit later some other guy wanted to put a gopro in the outside/exit of the corner, some 20cm away from the widest line so far. Sordo missed the entry of the corner a bit, went wide and gave the little thing a full strike and went wide into the grass, not that far away from some trees that could have taken him out. After that we went to Panzerplatte, to a long right (tightens a bit) downhill, with some bump in the braking. The cars were quite stable when going over the bump. Only Kremer-FabiaS2000 almost had some moment. Many drivers were blocking their wheels when braking before the bump already, especially DS3 R3's and Fiesta R2's. Latvala and Neuville were really impressive to see there. Neuville's car had quite a lot of understeer in the corner.

On sunday morning we did SS Grafshaft-Veldenz. Not too much special on this place, some quick corners in the wineyards. There was some cut in wet grass, but noone of the drivers seemed to be interested to take it. It was probably quicker to stay on the road in this occasion... After that we went to SS Dhrontal, just to watch the WRC cars. We were in a combination of: fast right (little bump), fast left (cut), fast right (don't cut). Mikkelsen had a little moment there, very spectacular place, probably the only occasion where we could see all WRC cars going sideways at high speed. After that we left to the stop of the powerstage. We were behind the stop-line, but the stage made almost some square around the place, which made it possible to follow the cars for the last little part of the stage. It was great to be between hundreds of Neuville-fans and being surrounded by plenty of Belgian flags. The tension was somehow building up when he had to arrive. The tension started building up when Neuville had to come, and it was a great moment when everyone saw Neuville emerge in the wineyard and become somewhat crazy. It's hard to describe but as someone who is following him since one of his first events and always believed in his talent, it's amazing to see him win in WRC (even with some luck). :)

Some remarks about a few drivers. Big thumbs up for Elfyn Evans, he did a really good event. Fortunately he proves to be a better driver on asphalt than on gravel. Pontus Tidemand did a great event, especially regarding how little he drove so far this year. If Wilson wants to take a gamble and put another youngster in one of the Fiesta WRC cars, he has found the right driver! Hirvonen was a bit invisible again, he's there, but it's nothing more than that. I think this could be his last WRC season... With the DS3's Camilli was incredibly quick before he retired. Also his lines were very clean and tidy, better than any other DS3-driver. Seen him a couple of times before in French rallies, and believe he is a driver to keep an eye on, could be "the next big thing"... In DMack Trophy Lemes was clearly the better driver of all, the thing that's keeping him down (for so long already) is his brutal way of driving.

Concerning safety I would also like to say some word... Normally nobody who's involved is reading this, but still... On many places (even the safest ones) you were not allowed to stand. For example on a 2m high wall before a corner it was a no-go, while there was a public area behind the corner, forcing all spectators to be packed like sheep, having to lean over to see the cars... On other places there was no safety at all, people were in the exit of corners, we've seen people standing on places where it could end up really ugly in case of crashes. In some occasions German marshalls are really rude (luckily we didn't encounter many of these people). By not allowing anything to spectators on public areas the organizers are forcing spectators to search for places without marshalls. On the long run this could make Rallye Deutschland even more dangerous than it was last year...

Sorry. I know you mean well, but too many words...

[N.O.T]

Meeke has proven that he can take the fight, to the VWs, with more experience. He still needs more time in the car. The VWs are definitely faster thought, anyone who argues that point is insane. You must agree though, if the Citroen is slower, coupled with his lack of experience, that Meeke can be the fastest driver. He's older than the rest but he must still be on the list for Hyundai, VW, Citroen and M-sport for 2015. He is the 3rd fastest driver in the 4th fastest car ;) (i.e. Ogier, Latvala and Mikkelsen's cars are all faster)

Meeke can for sure put some pressure on the VW boys with equal machinery. But again he is very inconsistent for a serious manufacturer to have a long term investment...

[N.O.T]

VW was in the rally, but the drivers can't manage the Germany stages. The best (=fast and reliable) driver wins.
If a team have the best equipment, but no drivers who can manage it... They become losers (for now) because the biggest car company of the world is German. In Rally of Germany these manufacturer is a farce! Ouch!

have you missed the previous 8 rounds ??

[danon]

Heavy handed marshalls fighting with spectators overs Nasser's car. Any rally I've been to marshall's help not fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1-9csVeoLc&index=34&list=PLVyRAt2cxbxvvvW4MEXexl6uI1GClS6ca

This mother fucker psycho-marshal deserved to be knocked out off his shoes
for his aggression fighting the innocent people trying to help a guy in need.

Outrageous!!!

[Roy]

have you missed the previous 8 rounds ??

Did they driven all in Germany?
I wrote about Rallye Deutschland 2013 & 2014

[litifeta]

Heavy handed marshalls fighting with spectators overs Nasser's car. Any rally I've been to marshall's help not fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1-9csVeoLc&index=34&list=PLVyRAt2cxbxvvvW4MEXexl6uI1GClS6ca

The very reason I stopped volunteering. Last time was marshalls mandhandling some kids who jumped the fence to see the last 30 minutes of Indy at the Gold Coast. Big F***ing deal. The kids had no money and saw 30 minutes of a 3 day event. One raised a grievance about me sticking up for the kids and pushing 2 marshalls off them. because they had grabbed these kids so hard the kids were turning blue from lack of oxygen. The job attracts tossers who need to feel important.

[dimviii]

Neuville flat out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=X81tQpG7bHE

Mikko
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QwSJ8Fh548g

[Lundefaret]

Some resume from my side... :)

Decided to do a short Germany-trip only last week, left after work on friday to arrive on the last stage of the first day. Since I could do only a bit more than half of the rally I decided to not take any photos this time (first time in 8 years, and back then I was only 14 years old). It was a very nice experience, in some way a much more pure way of experiencing the rally and the action/atmosphere, when you don't have to bother about right point of view/settings etc for photos. :)

On friday we did the last stage. Arrived on a technical place in the wineyards. A right corner into braking for long left with small cut (3rd gear) into long right (also 3rd gear) around wall. There was a visible difference between the drivers and cars there. For example Ostberg's car was way too soft, it was really diving in the braking and in that 2nd right corner you could see the chassis diving again, putting all pressure to the outer wheels. Same applied for practically all privateers. All other factory cars appeared to have a very hard setup, especially VW's were impressive. They are taking the corners a little quicker than most others and the chassis isn't moving a thing! From drivers I remember mostly Latvala looking quickest (very clean style) and Sordo really attacking, arriving sideways in braking for the corner, and being very early on the throttle which makes him going quite sideways in the exit. Not sure if Sordo's approach was the best one...

On saturday we started off in a fast right corner with cut in the wineyards on Stein&Wein. It was a good place, most drivers were a little sideways in the exit. It was interesting how some drivers (for example Meeke, Bouffier and Neuville) were taking a huge cut and driving over some metal parts (that keep the vines on place and straight). I was a bit surprised nobody punctured on this... After the first WRC2 cars we went to Panzerplatte, somewhere halfway the stage. We were in a fast downhill combination of turns: right(cut)-left(cut) before big twisty braking into hairpin left, it was on normal asphalt, no "panzer-concrete". The road was damp/wet (later on). It was interesting to see the crazy stability of the VW again. In the first right corner, the cut was a bit lower than the asphalt. When the cars exited the cut, most got some bump from it. For example Meeke went completely sideways and had to correct. The Ford's and Hyndai's could cope with it better than the Citroëns. But when you see the VW's, you see nothing, no movement at all as if this edge isn't there for them... On another level the same can be applied on the Opel Adam R2's, it's incredible how stable these cars are compared to the Fiesta R2's. On this place the braking for the hairpin was nice to see as well, interesting comparison between the big men and the "boys". For example Protasov was throwing his car sideways from one side to the other, to get the corner, which was really spectacular to see, but for sure not the fastest way.

In the second loop we started with Stein&Wein again, a place between trees. Some 90° right turn (with a dirty cut), with 50m after that a quick right turn (with dirty cut again) that was just slow enough to require the cars to brake a little before it. It was nice to see how sideways the cars went in the accelerating from both corners. Some funny moment there when some spectator wanted to put his phone IN the cut of the fast corner, to make a video exactly between where the wheels of the previous cars went. The first time no harm, the second attempt Meeke ran over the phone. He had a laugh about it until he picked up the phone and saw it became quite useless. The look on his face made it even more funny for anyone else who was watching it happen. :D A bit later some other guy wanted to put a gopro in the outside/exit of the corner, some 20cm away from the widest line so far. Sordo missed the entry of the corner a bit, went wide and gave the little thing a full strike and went wide into the grass, not that far away from some trees that could have taken him out. After that we went to Panzerplatte, to a long right (tightens a bit) downhill, with some bump in the braking. The cars were quite stable when going over the bump. Only Kremer-FabiaS2000 almost had some moment. Many drivers were blocking their wheels when braking before the bump already, especially DS3 R3's and Fiesta R2's. Latvala and Neuville were really impressive to see there. Neuville's car had quite a lot of understeer in the corner.

On sunday morning we did SS Grafshaft-Veldenz. Not too much special on this place, some quick corners in the wineyards. There was some cut in wet grass, but noone of the drivers seemed to be interested to take it. It was probably quicker to stay on the road in this occasion... After that we went to SS Dhrontal, just to watch the WRC cars. We were in a combination of: fast right (little bump), fast left (cut), fast right (don't cut). Mikkelsen had a little moment there, very spectacular place, probably the only occasion where we could see all WRC cars going sideways at high speed. After that we left to the stop of the powerstage. We were behind the stop-line, but the stage made almost some square around the place, which made it possible to follow the cars for the last little part of the stage. It was great to be between hundreds of Neuville-fans and being surrounded by plenty of Belgian flags. The tension was somehow building up when he had to arrive. The tension started building up when Neuville had to come, and it was a great moment when everyone saw Neuville emerge in the wineyard and become somewhat crazy. It's hard to describe but as someone who is following him since one of his first events and always believed in his talent, it's amazing to see him win in WRC (even with some luck). :)

Some remarks about a few drivers. Big thumbs up for Elfyn Evans, he did a really good event. Fortunately he proves to be a better driver on asphalt than on gravel. Pontus Tidemand did a great event, especially regarding how little he drove so far this year. If Wilson wants to take a gamble and put another youngster in one of the Fiesta WRC cars, he has found the right driver! Hirvonen was a bit invisible again, he's there, but it's nothing more than that. I think this could be his last WRC season... With the DS3's Camilli was incredibly quick before he retired. Also his lines were very clean and tidy, better than any other DS3-driver. Seen him a couple of times before in French rallies, and believe he is a driver to keep an eye on, could be "the next big thing"... In DMack Trophy Lemes was clearly the better driver of all, the thing that's keeping him down (for so long already) is his brutal way of driving.

Concerning safety I would also like to say some word... Normally nobody who's involved is reading this, but still... On many places (even the safest ones) you were not allowed to stand. For example on a 2m high wall before a corner it was a no-go, while there was a public area behind the corner, forcing all spectators to be packed like sheep, having to lean over to see the cars... On other places there was no safety at all, people were in the exit of corners, we've seen people standing on places where it could end up really ugly in case of crashes. In some occasions German marshalls are really rude (luckily we didn't encounter many of these people). By not allowing anything to spectators on public areas the organizers are forcing spectators to search for places without marshalls. On the long run this could make Rallye Deutschland even more dangerous than it was last year...

Thank You Tommeke B, for a very insightfull report!
Your description is very detailed wich makes it easy for driving-technique-nerds like me to get a really good picture of how the drivers drove where You stood. Thanks!

[noel157]

Thank You Tommeke B, for a very insightfull report!
Your description is very detailed wich makes it easy for driving-technique-nerds like me to get a really good picture of how the drivers drove where You stood. Thanks!

I too enjoy reading first hand accounts. Thanks TB.

[Mintexmemory]

Sorry. I know you mean well, but too many words...

Actually it's fine - great for those who want the detail that videos and journos don't often convey!

[Lundefaret]

Given Meekes was a note error I think its reasonable to assume that his speed otherwise was sustainable. I also think Latvalas off was a result of mental pressure not driving approach.

You give yourself points for Mikkelsen getting 3rd, sure he got it but damned sure he didnt fight for it as you predicted, it was gift wrapped and given to him on a plate.

I have enjoyed reading your 'nose end 1st' thread but IMHO you come across as a bit cocky about your own wisdom with your on event analysis.

Hello mr Nornbugger;)

Posting the analyzis on the net was really scary for me, because if I had been way off I would risk hurting my role in the whole "Nose End First" project. Sticking Your shin out is always scary.
But on the other hand, if I was in the ballpark, maybe some more forumists can open their eyes and minds to this philosophy.

We in the "Nose End First-gang" are avid rally goers, and we have experienced more than once that we can see the speed of a driver on the complete stage, and sometimes on the rally as a whole, by just watching them in one section on one stage.
Being that there was a lot of good test footage on the net before this event, I tought that I should try to do the same analyzis as a test of my own abilities (and I didnt plan to post it), but then I tought, "what the heck."
It was off cource very scary, because i felt that my aqcuired knowledge was some what on the line.

When it turned out that I got the speed very correct, it was a big relief, and another insurrance for me that the knowledge of Olav Bodilsen "holds up in court".
And tough I got it correct with every driver I marked as "High Risk" except Evans (wich I messed up on), I did a mistake on both Ogier, Latvala and Meeke, something I really shouldnt have done if I went a bit deeper in the analyzis.

Regarding Andreas Mikkelsens "fight for a podium", I marked him correctly regarding speed. And I tought that several of the front runners should go off or make costly mistakes, so the fastest of the 8.0-gang would probably be on the podium, I tought that Andreas was going to be fastest of that bunch, and that was why I tipped him having a shot at the third place, not because I tought he would be incredibly fast - because then I would rate his speed higher.

I am from Norway, where we have something called "The Law of Jante": "You should not believe You are better than anybody else in anything", "You should not believe that You matter" etc etc. As a person I am very opposed to this, to put it mildly, and I am not afraid of doing and saying the oposite. This can of cource lead to me coming off as cocky, thinking I actually know something, etc etc, and I am okay with that as long as I can back up my statements in such a matter that I can proove that I actually have some knowledge that everybody else does not. I think took a risk posting the analyzis on this forum, knowing that if I was completly wrong, I would fall right smack on my face, but when I actually was not far of the mark, I can still walk with my head up high.

If I was You I would be more occupied by finding out the essence of this information, and try to learn something, rather than taking one point of my whole analyzis and give me griefe about that, but thats just my opinion, You are of cource intitled to Your own.

What I can say is that Olav Bodilsens teachings has opened my eyes to a whole new world when it comes to rallying, and it is really a pleassure I hope more of You can experience, and thats why I actually try to teach something to others by having the NEF thread etc, instead of keeping it to my self.
I have followed rallying since the eighties (on TV), and the early nineties (being a spectator, and then a journalist), and the 00-s (driving some rallies my self), and have asked many of the greats to explain me "the secret" without anobody giving me answers that opened my mind. But when I now have been tough the Nose End First-philosophy I really feel that I have some usable knowledge.
But its of cource Your choice completly if You want to take me seriously, and learn a little about this or not;)

[Juha_Koo]

I've contacted the organization concerning the Nasser off incident, I truly hope that they react somehow. The action of the marshals in the video is a true disgrace to the sport.

Maybe someone else can send their opinion to the firm which apparently provided the marshals in the video... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Security-service-Schmitt/171589736268459

After seeing the video, I can personally assure you that I'm never going to attend ADAC Rallye Deutschland and I will advice all of my friends to do the same. Utter disgrace.

[noel157]

Wheel and half shaft let go:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bv4Jo58CIAEOyCz.jpg

[sindroms]

WTF it was?!

SS11, Meeke's onboard 2:58 minute.

[dimviii]

lol

[Juha_Koo]

WTF it was?!

SS11, Meeke's onboard 2:58 minute.

I noticed the same thing when watching the onboard. I got scared like hell, it was on a 5th-6th gear section... One metre to the right and scooter guy would have been no more. Crazy!

[noel157]

157 kph! Very fast scooter.....

[noel157]

New sponsor for Tidemand? LOL. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lteR_D38Iw&feature=youtu.be
Wonder where it ended up?

[bluuford]

New sponsor for Tidemand? LOL. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lteR_D38Iw&feature=youtu.be
Wonder where it ended up?
It was two corners before the rally finish on the last stage. So, it was taken to the finish line probably. He was a bit lucky not to loose 1.8 seconds in this corner ;-P

[Motorsportfun]

^^

It was just penultimate corner before the stop-line of Power Stage. ;)

[dimviii]

Ogier off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HXsMxtXpu6I

[SpeedEstRacing]

my vidéo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRhGKO7Zw2U

[rallysupportnl]

Video WRC Rallye Deutschland | Rally Germany 2014 is online! :D

http://i62.tinypic.com/24100ea.jpg (http://youtu.be/j_XU5WYMTRo)

Click on the photo or here ---> http://youtu.be/j_XU5WYMTRo

[bunnings]

My best of Rally Deutschland (includes mistakes from Tidemand, Prokop,Protasov & others)
http://i.imgur.com/nt61WhD.jpg?1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_wDvmgOacE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_wDvmgOacE

[noel157]

Top class as usual from Joost at Rallymedia:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7RisCknUAQ&index=15&list=PLlBw0zK4DJP7jUcLXZnnrcsyCCXpKlsjx

Stupid, stupid spectator runs out in front of Ostberg, steep hill or not.

Meeke @ 1.33....

[JoostSchouten]

Thanks Noel, just wanted to post the video here!
He was running to Neuvilles car down the vineyards and you couldn't hear the cars coming, really crazy to run there!

You can find the video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7RisCknUAQ
http://i62.tinypic.com/2pob81i.jpg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7RisCknUAQ)

[RallyloverNL]

My pictures from a great weekend in Germany are online now!

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3876/14833407817_72882f3415_o.jpg
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3861/14833516587_cbea2d4aea_o.jpg
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3890/14997002036_5946b449ac_o.jpg
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3872/15019950965_de23fa4f09_o.jpg

More pictures you can find HERE (https://flic.kr/s/aHsk2ou1oZ)

[HaCo]

Ogier off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HXsMxtXpu6I


Very cool footage!!!

[Roy]

I think if there is any chance for Hyundai's victory this year will be in Deutschlald.....

I thought by first reading no way. It is a DNF with electric failure or something. By second reading i thought the car is not fast enough.

And now i have to laugh. They had some luck with driver errors from others, ut it is again Neuville and Sordo this year. First win and 1-2 for Hyundai!

Good!

[cali]

Thanks Noel, just wanted to post the video here!
He was running to Neuvilles car down the vineyards and you couldn't hear the cars coming, really crazy to run there!

You can find the video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7RisCknUAQ
http://i62.tinypic.com/2pob81i.jpg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7RisCknUAQ)
Joost, absolutely brilliant video! Thanks!

[tommeke_B]

oh deer... :p

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t31.0-8/10648281_10204735182046150_6559081561153614780_o.j pg

Photo (taken by Thierry Denis) from a big moment for Mikkelsen on Panzerplatte. It's the downhill long right one (4th gear) I was talking about in my review, but this photo is from the first loop. ;)
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10502500_10204738214044305_7270922413139571485_n.j pg

[N]

I went to this rally for the first time, so this is my take on it.
Generally, well organized, I didn't see any misbehaving marshals :)
The autograph session was quite good, got to see all the drivers and cars right in front of me.
The opening ceremony went on for too long, it started at 20:30 going in reverse starting order. I don't remember the exact time, but it was after 22h that we went around the back of Porta Nigra and saw all the WRC cars waiting to cross the starting ramp, talked to some drivers.
On Friday went to SS2/5 Waxweiler, since our hotel was half an hours drive north of Trier (there weren't any hotels in Trier when I tried to book a few weeks before the rally). Good stage, went to spectator spot 2 and later 4, but nothing spectacular, especially when you have long straights and a few corners on tarmac.
On Saturday went to SS7/11 Stein & Wein, spectator spot 3 where there is a 180° corner, one after the other, it wasn't a hairpin, so not so much action as expected.
Went to the Service Park on Saturday, had a nice look at all the cars and got to see them coming into service.
And went back home on Saturday afternoon, since it's a long way away and work starts on Monday :)

Overall, I'm happy with the rally, really well organized, eg, parking, direction etc.
But, I probably wouldn't go again, IMO, gravel rallies are more interesting to watch live (TV is another thing). Also, seeing that Rally France in October is free and quite close to this area, if you are on a budget it might make more sense to go there.

[JoostSchouten]

Joost, absolutely brilliant video! Thanks!
Thanks Cali!

[bassist]

Thanks Cali!

Joost, wonderful video - putting the official coverage to shame again! Well Done!

[Antony Warmbold]

Thanks Noel, just wanted to post the video here!
He was running to Neuvilles car down the vineyards and you couldn't hear the cars coming, really crazy to run there!

You can find the video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7RisCknUAQ
http://i62.tinypic.com/2pob81i.jpg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7RisCknUAQ)

Hi Joost,

Being an amateur video maker I can see the amount of thinking and work you did to look for the right camera angles. The result is really awesome, you ca^pture the sensation of speed, thrill and action perfectly and indeed put the official coverage to shame as far as I am concerned. (except the Michelin videos which I like as well)
Keep it up and all the best!

[JoostSchouten]

Thanks both! Always nice to read the compliments!

[dimviii]

like this photo
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2014/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2014/rtu__mg_6888.jpg

more
http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/fotogalery.php?events=13899&fotograf=335

[dimviii]

have we see this close call from Kubica?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2RpF8Zo_zw

and this angle from Latvala?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2RpF8Zo_zw

[makinen_fan]

have we see this close call from Kubica?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2RpF8Zo_zw

and this angle from Latvala?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2RpF8Zo_zw

you posted Kubica twice. I guess you wanted to post this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sckIo8LvPG0

[dimviii]

i ve seen so many that ive been lost.lol

[dimviii]

nice pass from Meeke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qcw4SWBr5jY

[makinen_fan]

Kubica helped by fans
http://youtu.be/fGJx--2cJec

[Ucci]

Kubica helped by fans
http://youtu.be/fGJx--2cJec

I wonder how many meters did his copilot already run after Fiesta this season?? And helping to push the car out of ditches? I'm afraid that his patience will end some day....

[dimviii]

from Andre Lavadinho

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bvqh2k5IUAAJ-ca.jpg:large

[makinen_fan]

Nice video including the whole 5min fight of spectators with the stupid marshals to get Nasser out of the ditch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV1wLop7HKU&feature=youtu.be

[Lundefaret]

A lot of awsome photography, thanks for posting pictures to everybody of You that does:)

[noel157]

Nice video including the whole 5min fight of spectators with the stupid marshals to get Nasser out of the ditch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV1wLop7HKU&feature=youtu.be

Good video (despite the slow-mo). Those nightclub bouncers give marshalls a bad name.

[sete]

my gallery from Deutschland
http://mirousxl.rajce.idnes.cz/ADAC_Deutschland_2014

[satnav]

A lot of awsome photography, thanks for posting pictures to everybody of You that does:)
I'll 2nd that .

[noel157]

And I'll 3rd that.

[rallysupportnl]

Click ---> Photos WRC Rallye Deutschland 2014 (http://www.rallysupport.nl/index.php?id=266)

http://www.rallysupport.nl/fileadmin/template/main/afbeeldingen/2014/WRCGERMANY2014/WRCGERMANY0064.JPG

http://www.rallysupport.nl/fileadmin/template/main/afbeeldingen/2014/WRCGERMANY2014/WRCGERMANY0040.JPG

http://www.rallysupport.nl/fileadmin/template/main/afbeeldingen/2014/WRCGERMANY2014/WRCGERMANY0009.JPG

http://www.rallysupport.nl/fileadmin/template/main/afbeeldingen/2014/WRCGERMANY2014/WRCGERMANY0003.JPG

VIDEO:
http://youtu.be/j_XU5WYMTRo

[EightGear]

Neuville onboard SS17. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq6nDsO8dCk

He almost threw victory away at 1:15!

[tommeke_B]

Neuville onboard SS17. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq6nDsO8dCk

He almost threw victory away at 1:15!

This part of the stage must hate him :D The corner starting at 0min58 is the corner where he went off last year (but it was reversed).

[Franky]

Neuville onboard SS17. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq6nDsO8dCk

He almost threw victory away at 1:15!

I think Meeke had a moment pretty much at the same place during the first run.