Rallye Deutschland 2014

[jonkka]

I just look at the results.

[Mintexmemory]

The difference is a driver trying his damnedest - Put Meeke in Mikkelsen's car and you'd get a 3 way fight at the top. Put Mikkelsen in the Citroen and he'd be behind Ostberg, Neuville and Hirvonen.
Oh and @ Ucci - some things are readily apparent, you don't need to experience them personally! I'd imagine Kate Upton is a lot of fun, sadly I haven't had a road test!

[Lundefaret]

Pfff,

Loeb won 78 of the 156 WRC rallies he enteres. That's 50,0%. That's not really being "contempt" with good point scoring.

To compare the Valentino Rossi has a winning-% of 33,9% - Michael Schumacher has a winning-% of 29,5% and none of them has ever been accused of being "contempt".

PS: And stop talking down to people as if you know more about rally than people in here.

[QUOTE=MikeD;1009955]

My mission is not to talk down to other people, but to inspire to a debate, and that can be a thin line sometimes. So sorry mr "Pfff" if You feel insulted;)

In regards to You comparing Loebs number of victories to Schumacher and Rossi, what kind of context do You see this in?
Have You taken in to considiration the strength of their opponents, and the number off strong opponents?
For me its difficult to say if Loebs 50% is better or worse than Schumachers 29,5%.
How many of those years where Shumacher in the best car/team?
How many years where Rossi on the best bike/in the best team?
How strong where there competitors?

In my opinion You have to put Loebs victories in a context. Loebs seasons differ a lot in regards to what competition he had, and didnt have.
In 2004, with very strong competition from Solberg, he scores four second places in a row. I think that says a lot about the psychie of a top athlete.

Loeb was rallyings greatest master, no doubt about that, but he was this in a time where there were fewer and fewer factory teams, and all most no recruting of talent, because this was the age of the paid driver.
I rank Loeb among Schumacher, Rossi and the greatest of the great (winning in Germany all those years in a row, winning all the stages of a rally, and of cource winning all those WRCs), but it happend in some of the "worst" years of the WRC, and because of that - I think - it is difficult to compare those precenntage numbers.

And I am not saying Loeb was not a winner, but he was very good at getting those important second places, something i believe that is a bit more difficult for the other great Seb;)

[Lundefaret]

If that is so, why VW has uninterrupted streak of 12 consecutive wins whereas the next best record is just 8 consecutive for Citroen in 2011? And already this year they have five 1-2 wins... No, cars aren't quite so similar in performance.

Could it have something to do with the drivers maybe?;)

[kirungi okwogera]

If that is so, why VW has uninterrupted streak of 12 consecutive wins whereas the next best record is just 8 consecutive for Citroen in 2011? And already this year they have five 1-2 wins... No, cars aren't quite so similar in performance.

Yeah there's no way they are as evenly matched as they were pre-VW. Mikko Hirvonen (yes, the same one who is driving in this rally, in the lower-midfield) nearly beat Loeb to a championship twice in those days...

[Ucci]

Well, you will not convince me with stories "which WRC is the best". You obviousley forgotten situation few years ago, when Loeb was dominating scenary with Xsara&C4: all the time there were constant roumors about Focus lack of power...and then came Finland, where the power is Nb.1 fact; and Focus suddenly won. Why: car was top and the driver (with help of local knowledege) pushed 101%. As he should do all season, like Loeb....Yust crying, looking for excuses bring no result.

[Lundefaret]

Yeah there's no way they are as evenly matched as they were pre-VW. Mikko Hirvonen (yes, the same one who is driving in this rally, in the lower-midfield) nearly beat Loeb to a championship twice in those days...

For those of You that dont believe the cars are VERY evenly matched, I have some questions:

- In the last part of the 2013 season, Thierry Neuville was the only driver that could match Ogier on speed. He was driving a FORD.
Has the Ford suddenly got so much slower, or does it have anything to do with the drivers?

- In 2013 Sebastien Loeb was "forced" to do four rallies. With very little testing and preperation, he scored two victories and a second place. He was driving a CITROËN.
Both Kris Meeke and Mads Østberg have taken stage wins in this car this year. So can it really be so much slower than the VW?

- In 2014, Dani Sordo, during Rally Portugal, did his best gravel rally in ages, setting fastest stage times. He was driving a HYUNDAI.
We have seen several great performances in the Hyundai, last from Haydon Paddon in Finland. So can it really be that much slower than the VW, or is it Neuville that has lost some of his plot, wich I have written about earlier in this forum?

To judge the speed of the VW I think You can look at Andreas Mikkelsen. When on form he sets fastest stage times (like in Sweden), when not he is "one of the rest." As long as You are in a factory VW, Citroën, Ford or Hyundai, the only thing keeping You from winning is Your self, (and Ogier;)

[N.O.T]

Cars are not the same... VW is ages ahead.. end of story, if you want to live in star trek land go ahead.

[Lundefaret]

Well, you will not convince me with stories "which WRC is the best". You obviousley forgotten situation few years ago, when Loeb was dominating scenary with Xsara&C4: all the time there were constant roumors about Focus lack of power...and then came Finland, where the power is Nb.1 fact; and Focus suddenly won. Why: car was top and the driver (with help of local knowledege) pushed 101%. As he should do all season, like Loeb....Yust crying, looking for excuses bring no result.

The only "big" difference between the cars are the roll centre, and the diff strategy. Roll centre-vise ve are talking about tens of millimeters, with Ford in the one, Citroën in the other, and VW smack in the middle (unsure about the Hyundai.) On the diffs I believe VW is running 65 degrees ramp on throttle, with a smal difference between the drivers of (at leat on gravel.) The other teams do not have such steep ramps.

I dont know if You can remember, but Ogier was quite frustrated during testing of the Polo. Until Latvala came abooard, and agreed to Ogiers direction. I dont know, but I would think that this had something to do with the roll centre, or other factors that makes the VW not quite as extreme as the Citroën.

But as I said, Ogier would win in a Citroën (as he has showed), a Ford, a Hyundai (if it lasted a complete event), and of cource a VW. I do not believe that there ever has been a time where the WRC cars have been more similar in performance as now.

[Lundefaret]

Cars are not the same... VW is ages ahead.. end of story, if you want to live in star trek land go ahead.

Can You name the parts and the aereas the are "ages" ahead?;)

[N.O.T]

Can You name the parts and the aereas the are "ages" ahead?;)

No, time is precious. Say hi to Mr Spok for me...

[jonkka]

I do not believe that there ever has been a time where the WRC cars have been more similar in performance as now.

That I agree with, but it's not the same thing than your original claim that


The cars are so similar now that it is possible to win in all of them

[Lundefaret]

No, time is precious. Say hi to Mr Spok for me...

Is it scary or just difficult debating with facts?;)

[N.O.T]

Is it scary or just difficult debating with facts?;)

with people who know what they are talking about it is fun.
with ignorants is stupid.
and with people who believe they know what they are talking about and are clueless just not worth the time.

[Tom206wrc]

Again a nice time from Meeke(3rd best time in SS4) ;)

[jonkka]

Yeh, Meeke goes well.

[Ucci]

Stage 4: this time Jarri lost almost four seconds.

[Lundefaret]

Quote Originally Posted by Lundefaret View Post
"I do not believe that there ever has been a time where the WRC cars have been more similar in performance as now."

That I agree with, but it's not the same thing than your original claim that

Quote Originally Posted by Lundefaret View Post
"The cars are so similar now that it is possible to win in all of them"

Well, I do believe that the WRC cars never have been closer in performance, AND that You can win in all of them. Its the drivers that make up the difference, and that is why there are so huge differences whitin the teams: Ogier vs Mikkelsen, Meeke vs Østberg, Sordo vs Bouffier etc.

VERY positivly impressed by Evans!

[Tom206wrc]

Neuville was faster than Östberg and Hirvonen on SS4...and within the same second overall ;)

[Lundefaret]

with people who know what they are talking about it is fun.
with ignorants is stupid.
and with people who believe they know what they are talking about and are clueless just not worth the time.

So now You are making argumenst for me not to spend time debating You?
You are a funny fellow, altough a little cluelsess maybe;)

[stefanvv]

I don't see much difference in the second loop, guess the road position is not so important

[Andre Oliveira]

Now Bouffier appears too on WRC+ live map

[N.O.T]

So now You are making argumenst for me not to spend time debating You?
You are a funny fellow, altough a little cluelsess maybe;)

as you may have noticed i did not make an argument against your original claim which is useless... i answered a question about something irrelevant to your main question.

[jonkka]

Time for Sordo put some pressure on Meeke...

[jonkka]

Not quite...

[Lundefaret]

as you may have noticed i did not make an argument against your original claim which is useless... i answered a question about something irrelevant to your main question.

I have noticed that You only argument things of a personal matter, and only come with personal claims regarding my person, and shy away for factual argumentation on the claim that You dont have time etc.
If You really have knowledge about some important facts I want to hear theam, I am always on the lookout for new information/learning more, but if You dont have this knowledge/information, there is no use in taking out Your frustration on me - that is just trolling;)

[Lundefaret]

Has Colin Clarck found - and eaten - som strange mushrooms?
His descriptions of the clouds above the Mozel Valley sounded like something out of "Fear and Loading in Las Vegas";)

[N.O.T]

far too complicated thought even for me...

bottom line is Rallying is a sport that the driver factor accounts for 60% of the results produced and that is the reason i follow this sport. The rest 40% is the co-driver/car/team.

The evidence suggests that the VW is head and shoulders above the rest when it comes to everything from drivers to cars to way of doing things... and no Ogier would not have won in a Hyundai this year or in a ford.... but that is just hypothetical as your original argument.

Even if you take out of the way Ogier and Latvala Mikkelsen would have a pretty comfortable lead in the championship and i doubt he is that much better than the rest.

[stefanvv]

Has Colin Clarck found - and eaten - som strange mushrooms?
His descriptions of the clouds above the Mozel Valley sounded like something out of "Fear and Loading in Las Vegas";)
it's normal for him

[wwbroe]

On tracking, Ogier is not moving?

Edit: he is moving now, so no problem

[Rallyper]

For those of You that dont believe the cars are VERY evenly matched, I have some questions:

- In the last part of the 2013 season, Thierry Neuville was the only driver that could match Ogier on speed. He was driving a FORD.
Has the Ford suddenly got so much slower, or does it have anything to do with the drivers?

- In 2013 Sebastien Loeb was "forced" to do four rallies. With very little testing and preperation, he scored two victories and a second place. He was driving a CITROËN.
Both Kris Meeke and Mads Østberg have taken stage wins in this car this year. So can it really be so much slower than the VW?

- In 2014, Dani Sordo, during Rally Portugal, did his best gravel rally in ages, setting fastest stage times. He was driving a HYUNDAI.
We have seen several great performances in the Hyundai, last from Haydon Paddon in Finland. So can it really be that much slower than the VW, or is it Neuville that has lost some of his plot, wich I have written about earlier in this forum?

To judge the speed of the VW I think You can look at Andreas Mikkelsen. When on form he sets fastest stage times (like in Sweden), when not he is "one of the rest." As long as You are in a factory VW, Citroën, Ford or Hyundai, the only thing keeping You from winning is Your self, (and Ogier;)

It´s not all about power. You should know that. Some stages suites one car better. Some stages are not so demanding for suspension.

One thing is clear. The Polos has much better suspension. Just look at their handling after landings. And I would say they have a bit better torque than the others as well. And of course they have the two fastest drivers at the moment.

[MEGASinK]

few on-boards from ss1 here
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmUycCoEV1x0w16PuV55QKMcJBD-YPugC

[wwbroe]

JML is loosing another 2,8 sec to Ogier on second split

[N.O.T]

few on-boards from ss1 here
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmUycCoEV1x0w16PuV55QKMcJBD-YPugC

My eyes bleed... are you serious ?

[wwbroe]

Besttime for JML, beating Ogier with 0,1 sec

[jonkka]

Oh? Wow!

[wwbroe]

Meeke taking third, but only just faster as Mikkelsen. Hirvonen passing in front of Ostberg overall.

[wwbroe]

Neuville is gaining two places, passing both Ostberg and Hirvonen in overall classification

[stefanvv]

few on-boards from ss1 here
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmUycCoEV1x0w16PuV55QKMcJBD-YPugC

Can't make wrc+ onboards to run, but youtube works always, thx.

Not exactly clean run for Ogier, anyway he admitted himself made few mistakes there.

[306 Cosworth]

My eyes bleed... are you serious ?

What are you talking about?

[N.O.T]

What are you talking about?

the videos run at very slow frame rate below 10 fps.... is it just me ?

[Lundefaret]

It´s not all about power. You should know that. Some stages suites one car better. Some stages are not so demanding for suspension.

One thing is clear. The Polos has much better suspension. Just look at their handling after landings. And I would say they have a bit better torque than the others as well. And of course they have the two fastest drivers at the moment.

I have not stated that its all about power, that I can assure You off Rallyper;)

The Polos have the most developed suspension, engine etc, off cource. But the regulations are so strict that You can not get the huge leap in performance as You could earlier, with aspects like active diffs, different tire manufacturers etc.

The Polo is actually a little compromised compared to the VW on tarmac and high grip surfaces. This in relation to a 20mm higher roll centre.

But still these differences are so small that the driver is the deciding factor. Ogier in a Ford=Winner (Neuville showed the speed of the Ford last year). Ogier in a Citroën=a winner (Loeb showed last year that the car can still win, and Ogier has showed that he can beat Loeb).

And it is one VERY IMPORTANT factor because of this. Because the cars are so similar, the teams are 100% dependent on getting hold of the best drivers. Then they have to start paying for them. And goodbye paying driver, and welcome testing of a potential talent (wich Hyundai has done to a great degree, and the whole sport of rallying should thank them for that.)

The car can be a factor in a tight duell like in Finland. What would happen with Latvala or Ogier in a Citroën? Difficult to say. The Citroën has both plusses and minuses compared to the VW, but it would be more natural for Ogier to take advantage of the plusses.

[kubiczech]

Ogier is mega agressive and he si taking huge amount of risk ... look on right hand turn at 6:55 on his onboard from SS1 on wrc+ and compare with other drivers ... incredible cutting over the curb

[jonkka]

And yet he was only 0,4 secs faster than JML... worth taking such risks?

[wwbroe]

Sordo is loosing fourth overall to Mikkelsen, Neuville only 5 sec behind now.

[stefanvv]

Sordo is loosing fourth overall to Mikkelsen, Neuville only 5 sec behind now.

Yep, looks like there is a battle for 3rd-4th places, a big one

[N.O.T]

I have not stated that its all about power, that I can assure You off Rallyper;)

The Polos have the most developed suspension, engine etc, off cource. But the regulations are so strict that You can not get the huge leap in performance as You could earlier, with aspects like active diffs, different tire manufacturers etc.

The Polo is actually a little compromised compared to the VW on tarmac and high grip surfaces. This in relation to a 20mm higher roll centre.

But still these differences are so small that the driver is the deciding factor. Ogier in a Ford=Winner (Neuville showed the speed of the Ford last year). Ogier in a Citroën=a winner (Loeb showed last year that the car can still win, and Ogier has showed that he can beat Loeb).

And it is one VERY IMPORTANT factor because of this. Because the cars are so similar, the teams are 100% dependent on getting hold of the best drivers. Then they have to start paying for them. And goodbye paying driver, and welcome testing of a potential talent (wich Hyundai has done to a great degree, and the whole sport of rallying should thank them for that.)

The car can be a factor in a tight duell like in Finland. What would happen with Latvala or Ogier in a Citroën? Difficult to say. The Citroën has both plusses and minuses compared to the VW, but it would be more natural for Ogier to take advantage of the plusses.

so i guess mikkelsen is on par with sordo on tarmac and without VW he would have a comfortable lead in the championship because of his skills (if Ogier and Latvala where out of the picture) and lets say Meeke and Neuville where at VW...

sounds legit...

[Mintexmemory]

Yep, looks like there is a battle for 3rd-4th places, a big one

4-5th actually - Meeke is clear

[wwbroe]

Last stage of today is going live, seems like two VW's are out of reach, but might become nice battle for third to seventh.

[Eli]

Last stage of today is going live, seems like two VW's are out of reach, but might become nice battle for third to seventh.
live where?

[wwbroe]

live where?

I mean they are on the stage, you can follow it on WRC+

[wwbroe]

Actually, it seems like stage is delayed, i don't know the exact reason for this delay.

[Eli]

I mean they are on the stage, you can follow it on WRC+
oh yes, thought for a second it would have a live onboard...

[A FONDO]

Good job by Evans today, the rest are a disaster.

[Rallyper]

Hartusvuori says on Twitter a VIP car has rolled. That´s why delay.

[jonkka]

Good job by Evans today, the rest are a disaster.

Evans? Eight and a minute off the lead? Well, maybe it is relative...

[wwbroe]

Allready fiftheen minutes delay, what is going on?

[Doon]

Good job by Evans today, the rest are a disaster.

Are you saying Meeke has been a disaster today?

[Rallyper]

Allready fiftheen minutes delay, what is going on?

Look two quotes above...

[wwbroe]

Look two quotes above...

Yes, i've seen it now, i was a little bit late....

[Tom206wrc]

Camilli leading JWRC after 20" penalties for Riedemann :confused:

[wwbroe]

How come that Riedemann is not with Lara Vaneste as a codriver?

[wwbroe]

Stage 6 might start at 18h00 CET

[Tom206wrc]

No Quentin Gilbert time in SS5 :confused:

[Eli]

stage gets going in 2 minutes.

[Ucci]

According to Czech forum accident of "0" car was a reason for delay....

[Eli]

and they're off

[jolle1982]

Vanneste is doing there exams at the university

[mousti]

How come that Riedemann is not with Lara Vaneste as a codriver?
Busy with studying for her last exams :)

[wwbroe]

Ok, thanks for the explenation guys, considering Lara.

[jonkka]

Now, time to see whether JML can pull any time back...

[arko5]

Ogier stopped?

[Eli]

Ogier isn't moving for some time in WRC + maps

[wwbroe]

Ogier off road !!!

[skarderud]

Ogier off! And moving again...

[Francis44]

Now he's going to push like mad for the rest of the race, if the car holds till service.

[jonkka]

Wow... Interesting to see how bad it is...

[Juha_Koo]

Ogier off, now on a wrong road (not stage, possibly dropped to some other access road)... O-ou!

[wwbroe]

He is standig still again

[Eli]

hopefully there will be an onboard for this stage

[Francis44]

Looks like stopped for good.

Like we discussed a few months ago, Ogier has the ocasional mistake per season, here it is.

[HaCo]

Are they late?

[Gregor-y]

Wrong road? Wouldn't want to be Ingrassia right now. Looks like it was an off that left them on another road and not a bad turn, though.

[jonkka]

Interesting drama

[HaCo]

Let's see how Latvala can manage :-)

This might become an iteresting rally, just like last year.

Now let it rain!!!

[noel157]

Looks like stopped for good.

Like we discussed a few months ago, Ogier has the ocasional mistake per season, here it is.

Not you, but somebody here swore that he didn't take risks....... : )

[Eli]

Ogier on the move again, trying to find his way back

[jonkka]

Wouldn't it be better for him to just Rally2, surely he'd lose less time that way?

[noel157]

So what exactly happened? In a Vineyard looking for a gate or up the access road?

[Lundefaret]

What the hell!
I am away for half an hour trying to be a family man eating dinner with my girlfriend and our little daughter (1yo, future WRC Champ;)), and THIS happens!!!
I have seen som estressed tendences in Ogier latlely, but this I did not predict.
But as we discussed, Ogier is much more affected by stress than Loeb, but this I did not expect. Wow!
I am very sorry for Ogier (never good that any diver goes off), and now this rally is on full time.
This will affect the other drivers that now are a lot closer to the podium, they also know that Ogier most probably will not be the last casualty of this rally.
Hope Ogier can restart tomorrow, he will be charging!

[bluuford]

Now let it rain!!!
Wait till tomorrow...

[Francis44]

Looks like he was off to a blocked road. Might have tried to get back on the same spot where he was off but perhaps it was uphill and no traction to get up.

[wwbroe]

He is on the main road now, he went from road that he was on after crash down the vineyards to main road, but not on special stage.

[MikeD]

Could this be the first pure tarmac win for a finnish driver since Mäkinen in Sanremo 1999? (if my memory serves me right, and not counting ice/tarmac in Monte)

[wwbroe]

Second best time for Meeke, just in front of Mikkelsen.

[noel157]

OK, thanks.

[jonkka]

Could this be the first pure tarmac win for a finnish driver since Mäkinen in Sanremo 1999? (if my memory serves me right, and not counting ice/tarmac in Monte)

JML has not yet won. But should he do it, yes, it would be I think.

[noel157]

OK, thanks F44 and WWB.

[Eli]

so what's gonna happen with Ogier's time? 'cause i see he is using a different route now

[Rallyper]

Lundefaret!
You are spot on judging Ogiers driving style. I admit that!

WoW! this is going to be mad. unless Ogier not taking in 5 mins on an lunetic drive two days ahead...?

[Eli]

Could this be the first pure tarmac win for a finnish driver since Mäkinen in Sanremo 1999? (if my memory serves me right, and not counting ice/tarmac in Monte)

pure tarmac but as for tarmac itself, Gronholm was the last Finn to win back in monte 2006

[noel157]

so what's gonna happen with Ogier's time? 'cause i see he is using a different route now

Technically retired as off rally route.

[wwbroe]

Problems for Neuville at end of stage, seems like gearboxcasing is overheated. They jumped out at stop-finish.

[noel157]

Neuville's car melting?

[Eli]

He has fund his way to the main road leading from the vineyard. Looks like he's heading straight back to the service area. He'll collect a five minute penalty for retiring.
clever, less time loss than 10 minutes, 5 minutes in 2 days, in this rally very possible, he is very lucky that it happend to him on the final stage of the day

[Francis44]

Lundefaret!
You are spot on judging Ogiers driving style. I admit that!

WoW! this is going to be mad. unless Ogier not taking in 5 mins on an lunetic drive two days ahead...?

Might easily get up to 10th and score, and that's if everyones reaches the finish without problems, which is highly unlikely. And then there is the power stage.

[rallyfiend]

He has fund his way to the main road leading from the vineyard. Looks like he's heading straight back to the service area. He'll collect a five minute penalty for retiring.
clever, less time loss than 10 minutes, 5 minutes in 2 days, in this rally very possible, he is very lucky that it happend to him on the final stage of the day

It will be a 10 minute penalty - the minimum amount for any Rally 2 retirement.

[Eli]

yeah ok thankx for the correction

[noel157]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bvp-D41IIAA4l6X.png

[N.O.T]

Ogier should get into good points position in the next 2 days...

He is no Loeb.

Edit: If it is 10 minutes it should be interesting....

[EightGear]

He has fund his way to the main road leading from the vineyard. Looks like he's heading straight back to the service area. He'll collect a five minute penalty for retiring.
clever, less time loss than 10 minutes, 5 minutes in 2 days, in this rally very possible, he is very lucky that it happend to him on the final stage of the day
10 minutes for missing the final stage of the day.

Meanwhile Ostberg keeps telling excuses for his slow pace...

[Eli]

10 minutes for missing the final stage of the day.

Meanwhile Ostberg keeps telling excuses for his slow pace...

he's like a fish out of water in tarmac, will take him some time to get his skills better on the black stuff

[Juha_Koo]

Two notes about Ogier's off:

1. He's most probably going to "whine" about the long standing on the startline (cold tyres, loss of concentration) because of organisation error (it's justified in my opinion, but only to certain extent).

2. BUT according to Meeke's comment, the corner was "a place", aka very tricky place ("Ohh, I know the place, very tricky, almost caught me few years back in a Mini"). So I heavily doubt that the off has been entirely down to waiting and subsequent cold tyres (also it was some 7+ kms into the stage, so time to get them warm). Pressure got to him?

[Frostmourne]

JML should chill now and focus to finish the rally by not taking any risks. Meeke showing good time, but I think he cant reach JML because he (Meeke) want to finish the rally as well, at least a podium finish.

[Francis44]

Lot's of ifs. This is only the end of day one and and with the change of conditions everything can be twisted in one or two stages.

[wwbroe]

Second best time for Sordo, taking 4 sec back from Meeke. Could be a great fight tomorrow for second.

[Tom206wrc]

Sordo about to do a great time in SS6 :confused:

[jonkka]

Yes, JML has got a nice cushion but one has to remember that most of the rally remains and the conditions will be tricky if (or rather when) it rains. Also, if they run in reverse order as I believe they should if I read regs right, JML will have to cope with muddy corners. If he gets to run first on the road, it's much easier for him.

[HaCo]

Why was the stage delayed?

[Lundefaret]

Lundefaret!
You are spot on judging Ogiers driving style. I admit that!

WoW! this is going to be mad. unless Ogier not taking in 5 mins on an lunetic drive two days ahead...?

Well, Rallyper, I did not expect him to go off, I excpected him to destroy a rim or something, but I did expect him to react to the pressure.

I think this is what happened:
Ogier tried VERY hard on the first SS to "kill" the battle at once, but JML clung on.
Then he continoued to try very hard to create a gap, taking VERY big chances like the cut we saw in SS1. But still no big gap.
Then he pushes even more - not contempt on being second, or even in a battle for first, he wants to lead big time - and it bites him.
The trend since Helsinki Battle, Rally Finland and now is qiute obvious, over driving.
The spiral I wrote about earlier.
But I, and I guess most of You, am still in schock!

(But i register that my predictions regarding speed have been quit correct;))

[noel157]

Why was the stage delayed?

Safety car off.

[Lundefaret]

JML should chill now and focus to finish the rally by not taking any risks. Meeke showing good time, but I think he cant reach JML because he (Meeke) want to finish the rally as well, at least a podium finish.

The important thing for JML is that he has to drive fast enough to be over the treshold of the dampers/chassis. If not he will loose to much grip. The "safety" should come more from the safer lines You take, not the "safer" speed. He should drive 80% lines and 90-95% speed, and he will be safe.

[HaCo]

Was it the Toyota? :-)

[GallardoGT]

Love this WRC radio! Hope Colin still is there when Henk Vossen arrives.

[Tom206wrc]

Camilli is doing again a great time in SS6(his two first splits are better than the one from Riedemann fastest JWRC so far) :eek:

[Fast Eddie WRC]

So the battle of the VWs takes its first casualty.. I thought it would sooner or later.

Bet the team are worried now about a repeat of 2013...

What does JML do... fight on for the win and risk none or stay safe and take points for the Team title..

[N.O.T]

So the battle of the VWs takes its first casualty.. I thought it would sooner or later.

Bet the team are worried now about a repeat of 2013...

What does JML do... fight on for the win and risk none or stay safe and take points for the Team title..

fight for the win against who ?

[GallardoGT]

Henk Vossen did not finish :(

[Fast Eddie WRC]

fight for the win against who ?

Whoever is closest.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Yes, JML has got a nice cushion but one has to remember that most of the rally remains and the conditions will be tricky if (or rather when) it rains. Also, if they run in reverse order as I believe they should if I read regs right, JML will have to cope with muddy corners. If he gets to run first on the road, it's much easier for him.

What is the position, anyone know for definite... JML first or reverse order ?

[Tom206wrc]

I can't believe Marijan Griebel(Opel R2) is doing times almost as fast as the JWRC :crazy:

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Live interviews now on the WRC Live Stream .. :)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Capito states 'no team orders' & he knew Ogier/JML fight could lead to a mistake and Ogier made it ...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Is this the regulation - does this apply to all rallies ?

2014 FIA World Rally Championship Sporting Regulations
Application from: 01/01/2014 36/96
Published on: 30/06/2014

45.3 START ORDER FOR SUBSEQUENT DAYS
45.3.1 The start order for the first section on subsequent second days shall be based on the
classification at the finish of the final special stage of the previous day excluding super special stages if run
at the end of the day.

45.3.2 P1 and P2 drivers
P1 and P2 drivers shall normally re-start as a merged group in reverse order according to their overall
classification.

[kirungi okwogera]

OK we may have had a clash of know-it-alls in this forum but I grant that Lundefaret's predictions after shakedown have held pretty strongly.

1st day I am impressed with:
Camilli - FFSA just knows how to pick their junior drivers I guess. Who predicted an exciting battle in WRC3?
Reidemann - Yes it's his home rally, but he's been head-and-shoulders above the rest (if you discount his time penalty)
Maurin, Tidemand, Sousa - always nice to have a battle in the support categories and I am quite surprised that these three have fought well.
Sordo - wait, hear me out - he seems to be positioning himself for a repeat of last year; start slow and midfield, work your way up to top non-VW. No telling if that will give him a win as it did last year, but he definitely seems to be picking up.
And of course Meeke again impresses if he can keep it on the road. Maybe Ogier's consistence and Meeke's over-driving have somehow switched between the two of them.
Latvala looking serious on asphalt after 10 years training... practice makes perfect I guess.

Not happy about Bouffier, it's amazing to me he can privateer drive to the podium on M-C (and win it in IRC!), cross a little way over the border into Germany and be so much slower in a factory car. I would've wanted to see him do more.

Can anyone analyze how Evans is progressing this year? Is he driving better than when he started? Hard to tell since it's a different surface but he seems like Mr 7th Place at the moment. Bit like how Henning used to dominate that position... I know he's young, I've just not noticed any "flashes of brilliance" you sometimes get with young guys in his position (stage wins, one rally where everything goes right and he makes 4th or whatever, and so on).

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Can anyone analyze how Evans is progressing this year? Is he driving better than when he started? Hard to tell since it's a different surface but he seems like Mr 7th Place at the moment. Bit like how Henning used to dominate that position... I know he's young, I've just not noticed any "flashes of brilliance" you sometimes get with young guys in his position (stage wins, one rally where everything goes right and he makes 4th or whatever, and so on).

Malcolm Wilson just said this was Evans 'best day ever' in a WRC car ...

[Eli]

Malcolm Wilson just said this was Evans 'best day ever' in a WRC car ...

he was actually faster than Ostberg, Hirvonen, Neuville and Kubica

[Nornbugger]

- not contempt on being second,;))
Content will be the word you were looking for, contempt is a different word entirely

[N.O.T]

Malcolm Wilson just said this was Evans 'best day ever' in a WRC car ...

Evans does a great job... it is a kind of performance he has to build on if he wants a career.

[Lundefaret]

OK we may have had a clash of know-it-alls in this forum but I grant that Lundefaret's predictions after shakedown have held pretty strongly.

1st day I am impressed with:
Camilli - FFSA just knows how to pick their junior drivers I guess. Who predicted an exciting battle in WRC3?
Reidemann - Yes it's his home rally, but he's been head-and-shoulders above the rest (if you discount his time penalty)
Maurin, Tidemand, Sousa - always nice to have a battle in the support categories and I am quite surprised that these three have fought well.
Sordo - wait, hear me out - he seems to be positioning himself for a repeat of last year; start slow and midfield, work your way up to top non-VW. No telling if that will give him a win as it did last year, but he definitely seems to be picking up.
And of course Meeke again impresses if he can keep it on the road. Maybe Ogier's consistence and Meeke's over-driving have somehow switched between the two of them.
Latvala looking serious on asphalt after 10 years training... practice makes perfect I guess.

Not happy about Bouffier, it's amazing to me he can privateer drive to the podium on M-C (and win it in IRC!), cross a little way over the border into Germany and be so much slower in a factory car. I would've wanted to see him do more.

Can anyone analyze how Evans is progressing this year? Is he driving better than when he started? Hard to tell since it's a different surface but he seems like Mr 7th Place at the moment. Bit like how Henning used to dominate that position... I know he's young, I've just not noticed any "flashes of brilliance" you sometimes get with young guys in his position (stage wins, one rally where everything goes right and he makes 4th or whatever, and so on).

"The clas of the know-it-alls", sounds like a brilliant title for a satiric comedy:)

I agree with You kirungi okwogera, Camilli very strong, also Reidemann.
Sordo has been hampered by a bad starting position, but will come on very strong (and proves that the Hyundai is fast;))

Bouffier:
Regarding Bouffier I dont think its fair to expect more.
Firstly: A private car now is different to what it was before. See Pontus Tideman in Sweden in 2013. Se Bouffier in MC. Or what about Mads in a private Ford compared to a factory spec. A private Ford is only marginally slower than a factory one.
Monte is a specialist event, and Bouffier is a specialist. And the typicall tarmac rallies he has done before are very different to Germany.
Bouffier has talent, but Germany is very difficult for the drivers that dont fully understand weight management. First pass on a dry road You can perform okay, but You will loose time in the hairpins (and it doesnt help having the wrong gearing), but second passes, or stages with mud, they take no prisoners.
Hes chanses would be better in rallies like Corsica or Catalunya etc.
One guy I would really like to see in a Hyundai on tarmac is actually Paddon. He would struggle in germany to, but tarmac testing footage was more impressive than the gravel tests.

Evans:
I agree with You regarding Evans. He has not proved him self worthy of his current position, and should up his game. But how, if he dont know how?
Mr Wilson often have a three year plan for Young drivers, and a lot can of cource happen in three years, but absolutly not impressive so far - except for one thing. In the interview after the Power Stage in Portugal he said something that gave me a glimmer of hope in regards to what he needs to work on, but so far, not so good. Sorry... And the test before Germany, ouch...
I am actualy impressed of Evans speed compared to the testing footage, and the fact that he is still on the road. I would have predicted him understeering off already, so that is positive in my mind:)

[Lundefaret]

Content will be the word you were looking for, contempt is a different word entirely

In contempt of the court or something;) My bad. English is not my native language, but I guess most people on this forum will better understand my poorly written English compared to my somewhat better written Norwegian;)

[kirungi okwogera]

Evans does a great job... it is a kind of performance he has to build on if he wants a career.

So Doctor N.O.T. is he a healthy dog, not a sick one then?

I am glad to hear even oscar the grouch is not so skeptical of Evans potential. Seems the consensus here is positive. I will watch him more closely in the future!

Lunde, I too would love to see Paddon in a WRC on tarmac. 8th in Spain on his world rally car debut last year remember.

[Eli]

aren't the day 1 full highlights suppose to begin now?

[KKS]

Does anyone know if it is possible to listen to Rally Radio by Android phone otherwise then the WRC app?
It shuts down for me all the time and you have to restart it , which is quite annoying when you miss half of the drivers.
I have a link from web page and put in into VLC player - it's works fine, but two problems 1) 25% load for CPU and 15sec deley
Try same with Android VLC - it works! But not good too

try this link

http://wrcaudio-lh.akamaihd.net/i/wrc_audio_eng_1@61305/master.m3u8
in any stream player

[stefanvv]

"The clas of the know-it-alls", sounds like a brilliant title for a satiric comedy:)

I agree with You kirungi okwogera, Camilli very strong, also Reidemann.
Sordo has been hampered by a bad starting position, but will come on very strong (and proves that the Hyundai is fast;))

Bouffier:
Regarding Bouffier I dont think its fair to expect more.
Firstly: A private car now is different to what it was before. See Pontus Tideman in Sweden in 2013. Se Bouffier in MC. Or what about Mads in a private Ford compared to a factory spec. A private Ford is only marginally slower than a factory one.
Monte is a specialist event, and Bouffier is a specialist. And the typicall tarmac rallies he has done before are very different to Germany.
Bouffier has talent, but Germany is very difficult for the drivers that dont fully understand weight management. First pass on a dry road You can perform okay, but You will loose time in the hairpins (and it doesnt help having the wrong gearing), but second passes, or stages with mud, they take no prisoners.
Hes chanses would be better in rallies like Corsica or Catalunya etc.
One guy I would really like to see in a Hyundai on tarmac is actually Paddon. He would struggle in germany to, but tarmac testing footage was more impressive than the gravel tests.

Evans:
I agree with You regarding Evans. He has not proved him self worthy of his current position, and should up his game. But how, if he dont know how?
Mr Wilson often have a three year plan for Young drivers, and a lot can of cource happen in three years, but absolutly not impressive so far - except for one thing. In the interview after the Power Stage in Portugal he said something that gave me a glimmer of hope in regards to what he needs to work on, but so far, not so good. Sorry... And the test before Germany, ouch...
I am actualy impressed of Evans speed compared to the testing footage, and the fact that he is still on the road. I would have predicted him understeering off already, so that is positive in my mind:)

From Bouffier should be expected much more on tarmac.... and he is in factory car I believe. But his performance seem to reflect his current situation "in the middle of nowhere".

From Evans I personally expect much more next year when he should begin to fight for something, now he is learning the Rallies as he says many times, so we should just wait and see.

Quite odd Ogier to make major mistakes in Germany 2 consecutive years, I guess this Rally doesn't suit him well.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Weather forecast for Saturday:

Light rain early... then remaining cloudy with showers in the afternoon.

High 63F. Winds WSW at 10 to 15 mph.

Chance of rain 70%.

[N.O.T]

So Doctor N.O.T. is he a healthy dog, not a sick one then?

I am glad to hear even oscar the grouch is not so skeptical of Evans potential. Seems the consensus here is positive. I will watch him more closely in the future!

Lunde, I too would love to see Paddon in a WRC on tarmac. 8th in Spain on his world rally car debut last year remember.

Evans cannot be judged this year... this performance in germany could be very well be a fluke and he can follow the wilson/warmbold road of no development at all and perish when his dads money end.

That is why i said he must build on this performance... he must use this as a standard and move on with small steps... if he manages to develop it will be good for him and the sport if he doesn't he will join a very very long list.

[N.O.T]

I wonder if WRC will show any footage of Ogier off...

[makinen_fan]

Does anyone know if it is possible to listen to Rally Radio by Android phone otherwise then the WRC app?
It shuts down for me all the time and you have to restart it , which is quite annoying when you miss half of the drivers.

There is a new app in Android, if you still have the old one. Maybe this one works for you. For me it works fine
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=laola1.wrc&hl=en

[dimviii]

interesting rally,but couldnt follow as i wanted due to holidays.
Ogier after off
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvqFZG6CUAAFMlF.jpg:large

nice photo from Lavadinho Andre
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvpHBPaCMAAS_z9.jpg:large

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Just looked at the Pickems - in 7 pages of entries only 4 people predicted a Latvala win ...

Are those minority geniuses going to be right ?

His very first tarmac win & consecutive WRC victories, or will the old JML return to throw it away ?

Fascinating weekend ahead !

[Criterium]

Thanks to rallyVista, it is possible to view the place where Ogier went off (at 7.2km exiting from Sauer Brunnen wood), the little road he followed and its end.
http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/15/38/23/21/presde13.jpg (http://servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1101&u=15382321)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier with just light damage - lucky boy...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvqcYyYCYAEKRQ7.jpg

Better than last year here:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvEJjlvIUAAtj1S.jpg

[Miika]

Ogier off on Friday, rain on Saturday. If there is a pile of wood with JML´s name on it then it´ll be a complete rerun of the 2013 edition.

[dimviii]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bD9kQRD8dQ borl day1

[makinen_fan]

VW recap with Ogier crash/recovery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cOqdZcQfA4&feature=youtu.be

[Criterium]

Should he turn to the left instead of following the stage direction, could he reach it at a previous point in less than 10 minutes...
http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/15/38/23/21/presde14.jpg (http://servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1102&u=15382321)

http://www.interactiveinfluence.com/techali/rallyvista/rally/

[makinen_fan]

Ogier off on Friday, rain on Saturday. If there is a pile of wood with JML´s name on it then it´ll be a complete rerun of the 2013 edition.
+a Citroen winning for the 12th time...

I hope Latvala keeps it on the road, it will be interesting for the rest of the championship

[dimviii]

Kubica crash incar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bD9kQRD8dQ

[Lundefaret]

From Bouffier should be expected much more on tarmac.... and he is in factory car I believe. But his performance seem to reflect his current situation "in the middle of nowhere".

From Evans I personally expect much more next year when he should begin to fight for something, now he is learning the Rallies as he says many times, so we should just wait and see.

Quite odd Ogier to make major mistakes in Germany 2 consecutive years, I guess this Rally doesn't suit him well.

I dont think, stefanvv, that You can compare Germany to any other tarmac event.
The factors that really made Loeb stand out are the most important factors of this rally, and that is the "retention vs investing" strategy, where to go slow to be fast etc.
This is because You have the combination of contrasting grip (from very high to very low level), in critical places (where You want to change direction of the mass at speed (the rally car)), and extreme contrasts in speed from high to low to high again. (Read: a lot of hairpins and junctions.) If one was to take out three aspects that Loeb was an absolute master of, it would be these three. No wonder he won year after year after year.
I have never seen anything like that with Bouffier, so I did not expect him to go particalarly well here, and I dont think its fair to expect it either.

Regarding Evans I think my friend N.O.T (sic) put it correctly when he talks about the Wilson/Varmbold way of no progression. Tough I think his performance here so far actually has been a little positive, he must not get stuck in the "Wilson rut". Malcolm Wilson is a master of running a motorsport business, and I personally admire him for that, but even tough he him self drove at a reasonable level, he is not very knowledgable on developing talent, something the story of Mathew Wilson is a testament of, so he should either employ someone who is, or the Evans family should. From my very limited knowledge about Evans, he seems like a very eager driver who understands the time and effort he needs to put in, but he havent found the right people to give him the knowledge yet. So its still hope:)

And, to disagree with You on the final point also - to make my day complete (hope You have a sence og humor). No, it is not odd that Ogier makes a mistake in Germany for the second year running, its symptomatic to the way he drives. I have written about this earlier, but (fortunally, or he would even more), Ogier has greater cracks in his armour than Loeb did.
And its my mistake for not taking this enough in account when I wrote the first analyzis,but it was only based on the testing videos, tough I got my act togheter when I saw how this was panning out.
Ogier has weaknesses, and they are quit easy to spot. The only problem is, every other current driver in the WRC have more weaknesses, wich are even easier to spot, so in the title chase Ogier is still quit safe.

[stefanvv]

And, to disagree with You on the final point also - to make my day complete (hope You have a sence og humor). No, it is not odd that Ogier makes a mistake in Germany for the second year running, its symptomatic to the way he drives. I have written about this earlier, but (fortunally, or he would even more), Ogier has greater cracks in his armour than Loeb did.
And its my mistake for not taking this enough in account when I wrote the first analyzis,but it was only based on the testing videos, tough I got my act togheter when I saw how this was panning out.
Ogier has weaknesses, and they are quit easy to spot. The only problem is, every other current driver in the WRC have more weaknesses, wich are even easier to spot, so in the title chase Ogier is still quit safe.

Welllll... if I remember right it was Loeb vs Ogier fight culmination exactly in Germany in 2011 perhaps when He Himself made a mistake and Ogier made his famous statement and eventually won the event. Since he (Ogier) is in VW though some strange things happens exactly in this Rally, but may it's just fortune, I don't know, but I think it's not his driving style.... it just doesn't imply such overdriving which causes these mistakes..... there is little chance that I might be wrong anyway....

[Lundefaret]

Welllll... if I remember right it was Loeb vs Ogier fight culmination exactly in Germany in 2011 perhaps when He Himself made a mistake and Ogier made his famous statement and eventually won the event. Since he (Ogier) is in VW though some strange things happens exactly in this Rally, but may it's just fortune, I don't know, but I think it's not his driving style.... it just doesn't imply such overdriving which causes these mistakes..... there is little chance that I might be wrong anyway....

Yes, You are correct, but as You state, that was in a different car.
I have written about this earlier, also a little in this thread, the VW is more compromised on these types of events than the VW. Especially regarding the higher roll centre.
The Citroën "forces" You in a stronger way to drive like Loeb (one can look at Østbergs statments this year).
This is a very unatural way of driving, because You are so slow in certain parts of certain corners that You are sure that You are loosing minutes. But the car is built like this to reward acceleration and not retention of speed.
I think that Latvala "helped" Ogier to make the VW a little more rounded in the set up than the extreme Citroën (this is not confirmed.) And this way Ogier ends up not driving so "Loeb" as he did in the Citroën.
The two events on the calendar where the Citroëns are rewarded the most for this strategy is I believe Monte-Carlo and Germany.
When You combine high pressure from Latvala, with this set up strategy, one could in extreme circumstances end up with the result of Ogier going off on the same rally two years in a row. And off cource, this has also something to do with risk management in general.

But, I am not talking about Ogiers driving style in general, because he is the most Nose End First of the whole bunch, but when he is over driving, as I have seen more and more examples of lately, then it gets risky.

[MTA]

Thanks for the tip, will try that tomorrow if its still dosent work.

Skickat från min Nexus 5 via Tapatalk

[MTA]

I'm using the latest app. It could be the very slow WiFi at my job that make it not work because when I vent home I seems to work better over 4g.

Skickat från min Nexus 5 via Tapatalk

[janvanvurpa]

What the hell!
I am away for half an hour trying to be a family man eating dinner with my girlfriend and our little daughter (1yo, future WRC Champ;)), and THIS happens!!!
I have seen som estressed tendences in Ogier latlely, but this I did not predict.
But as we discussed, Ogier is much more affected by stress than Loeb, but this I did not expect. Wow!
I am very sorry for Ogier (never good that any diver goes off), and now this rally is on full time.
This will affect the other drivers that now are a lot closer to the podium, they also know that Ogier most probably will not be the last casualty of this rally.
Hope Ogier can restart tomorrow, he will be charging!


EATING DINNER!!???
You should be glued here and Czech site for SS times and 2 bottles of beer in hand: something to eat with the left and something to wash it down with the right hand..
A good Belgian Lambic beer is a real meal....

Jeezuz and i thought you were a fan..
Remember the operative phrase in the 10,000 rule: of dedicated practice beyond comfort level..
It applies to web-spectating too!
You don't see me wimping out and eating food do you?
Där har du det, poiken!

[wwbroe]

Seems like Ogier will be first car on the road today, folowed by Kubica. Latvalla will be 16th car on the road. It is for sure an advantage to be first on the road for Ogier, let's see what he can do.

[bluuford]

Yes, it was raining on firt two stages around hour ago and rain just finished on the Baumholder stages. Most likely there will be no more significant rain on morining stages (maybe a few raindrops here and there) but it is only +12..+13 degrees and cloudy. So, I expect open places to dry up put places in shade (with no wind will be still wet/damp. Lets see what strategy different cars are using.

[litifeta]

I feel very sorry for Robert Kubica. It appears the injuries to his hand are not healing and it affects his driving too much to compete at this level. He is driving on pure courage and trying to over compensate in areas that are no place for speed.

[SubaruNorway]

Wonder why WRC didn't show the forward facing inboard of Ogier, Becs just said she saw it. Was it on the Motors TV broadcast only or?

[jonkka]

You don't see me wimping out and eating food do you?

Well, you should. Your blood sugar levels are way too low, as we can observe.

[jonkka]

Seems like Ogier will be first car on the road today, folowed by Kubica. Latvalla will be 16th car on the road.

I am curious where the notion of not reversing the start order came from?

[Tom206wrc]

Kubica faster than Ogier on the 17km SS7 this saturday morning ;)

[Frostmourne]

Ogier "It's really drying quickly now, so they are going to have a dry road soon...now there is nothing to lose."

That guy when in not good situation/losing always moaning, like spoiled child. More please Ogier with these comments!! you only make it fun.

[Langdale Forest]

Hopefully Sordo can stop the VW domination, although it would be good for Latvala's championship chances if he was to win his first tarmac event.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Day 2 ... go Meeke !

[wwbroe]

Another rather poor time by Ostberg, he is disappointing in this tarmac rally

[wwbroe]

Good stagetime for Evans, beating Hirvonen by 4,5sec

[wwbroe]

Really good splits for Neuville

[Tom206wrc]

Interesting: Mikkelsen slower than Neuville in split one :confused:

[wwbroe]

Neuville is coming really close to Mikkelsen, he is taking about 7sec on Andreas.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Good work by Evans... he is improving.

[Tom206wrc]

Looks like Meeke will be even slower than Evans on that one(split one) :mark:

Edit: Meeke just ahead of Evans, Mikkelsen and Sordo ;)

[arko5]

Kubica won this stage :)

[jonkka]

Kubica seems to take stage win

[Tom206wrc]

So finally the first stage win for Kubica and Ford on this event :)

[jonkka]

Ogier is not pulling back huge amounts of time - will he score any points besides PS?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Latvala not bothered by running last on muddy roads...

[Tom206wrc]

Tidemand takes the lead in WRC2 ;)

[Tom206wrc]

Can't wait for JWRC times especially Camilli :D

[Tom206wrc]

Chardonnet fast on SS7 :)

[arko5]

Ogier stopped again??

[Frostmourne]

It will be a an interesting battle between Meeke, Sordo, Mikkelsen and Neuville :). Hope Meeke and Neuville will make it to podium.

[arko5]

Something happens becouse Kubica did not start yet...

[6789]

Ogier off?

[Tom206wrc]

Great time from Camilli on SS7, 7" faster than Lefèbvre and Riedemann :bounce:

[jonkka]

Ogier is trying Kubica's approach and finds it... crashy...

[Eli]

Yep Ogier off yet again

[6789]

Hope crew is ok.

[jonkka]

Ogier should have saved his second crash to another rally... to give the championship some spice

[Eli]

Stage might be cancelled

[Tom206wrc]

Great time from Camilli on SS7, 7" faster than Lefèbvre and Riedemann :bounce:


And finally the best of JWRC goes to Martin Koci about 4" faster than Camilli ;)

[jonkka]

Cancelled

[Eli]

Yep, stage cancelled

[EightGear]

What on earth is Ogier doing? :p

[Eli]

Making mistakes, twice!!!

[andyone]

well ogier is a good driver but now he is showing that he cant coupe with pressuer. now that latvala has masterd the VW. he is challenging him one rally after the other. so third rally being beaten by latvala.. how awesome.

[andyone]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT6naSOhIE0

[HarriK]

257 click to larger photo

[Ucci]

Ogier-pressur-rally Deutscland! Unsloved mistery for him.
And my god how nice is to see Kubica on the top of the board...this time not in a reteirment list!!!

[jonkka]

Ogi demolished the barrier?!

[EightGear]

257 click to larger photo
Holy crap!

[Rallyper]

Must have been a massive crash. Wonder how car looks like?

[WUff1]

How´s the crew? Any news?

[jonkka]

From live text:
Seb and co-driver Julien Ingrassia are going to hospital for precautionary checks.

[dimviii]

http://www.forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_08_2014/post-50-0-74785700-1408780633.jpg

[andyone]

http://www.forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_08_2014/post-50-0-74785700-1408780633.jpg

tha is what we call. he ditched it. has there been any world champion who did this before. ditching it twice in one rally?

[HaCo]

Making mistakes, twice!!!

This will make it very interesting for France. Normally it will be difficult conditions there as well on tarmac.

[WUff1]

From live text:
Seb and co-driver Julien Ingrassia are going to hospital for precautionary checks.

Thank You

[wwbroe]

Is it going to rain on the long Panzerplatte stage? We could see some surprices, but we will see.

[jonkka]

Had a discussion with wife this morning about drivers hitting animals. What I do recall are:
1997 Sainz NZ hit sheep (bad for sheep)
1998 Makinen Corsica hit cow (bad for cow and Tommi)
2004 Loeb Argentina hit bull (not bad for either)

Not 100% sure of years as I did not check. Remember any others?

[HaCo]

Is there footage of Ogier's off yesterday?

[wwbroe]

Mikkelsen keeping his place, being 0,4 sec faster as Neuville

[Tom206wrc]

SS10 Panzerplatte running ;)

[EightGear]

Had a discussion with wife this morning about drivers hitting animals. What I do recall are:
1997 Sainz NZ hit sheep (bad for sheep)
1998 Makinen Corsica hit cow (bad for cow and Tommi)
2004 Loeb Argentina hit bull (not bad for either)

Not 100% sure of years as I did not check. Remember any others?

Solberg hit a skippy in Australia back in 2005 or something.

[skarderud]

Had a discussion with wife this morning about drivers hitting animals. What I do recall are:
1997 Sainz NZ hit sheep (bad for sheep)
1998 Makinen Corsica hit cow (bad for cow and Tommi)
2004 Loeb Argentina hit bull (not bad for either)

Not 100% sure of years as I did not check. Remember any others?

Petter in Australia, subaru vs kangaroo. 2005?

8gear was faster:)

[Frostmourne]

Latvala off?

ewrc-results website says Latvala time is 22:01.9

[Eli]

Loeb in Australia same year another kangaroo

[jonkka]

No?

[Raini]

Latvala off?

Latvala is heading to SS10 now,

[wwbroe]

Latvalla is on liaison between two stages, so i guess he didn't go off

[Tom206wrc]

Prokop 3" faster than Kubica on split one SS10 :confused:
Edit: so is Bouffier ;)

[Frostmourne]

http://www.ewrc-results.com/results.php?e=13899&s=65664&t=ADAC-Rallye-Deutschland-2014

check JML time!!! I almost had a heart attack!!

Edit: it has been corrected on the website... thank goodness!!

[EightGear]

Latavala is fine.

[Tom206wrc]

Östberg -6 on Kubica split one SS10 :)

[arko5]

Kubica stopped. He is not moving...
Ups. Problem with my computer

[jonkka]

Sordo and Neuville are on hard tyres, others have soft ones. Interesting to see what effect that will have... At least on SS9 both Hyundai's were fast.

[wwbroe]

Kubica is in, he says he was overheating his soft tyres

[skarderud]

Østberg said before this rally that he tries to adapt to the car instead of try to adjust the car to himself. So he is like learning to drive on asfalt again. Hopefully he get to understand the car soon:)

[Frostmourne]

Question, are both Citroen drivers on a 1 year/season contract?

[wwbroe]

Question, are both Citroen drivers on a 1 year/season contract?

I think so, but not sure about it

[jonkka]

Since Citroen can dictate the terms, I think 1 year + option is the format they'd choose. I don't know though.

[Ucci]

Kubica is in, he says he was overheating his soft tyres

Kubica again damaged the car.....

[jonkka]

Meeke somewhat slower on split 1 compared to Sordo

[jonkka]

But faster on split 2

[wwbroe]

Prokop fastest trough sofar, first time he is pleased with his car's set-up in this rally.

[Tom206wrc]

Problems for Sousa in WRC2(split one) ;(

[wwbroe]

Good time for Ostberg, taking some time back from Evans

[Mirek]

Prokop fastest trough sofar, first time he is pleased with his car's set-up in this rally.

Panzerplate and all Baumholder stages have always been good for Czechs. The roads are more similar to ours than the rest of the rally. Kopecký or Kresta has always been fighting on the top of the leaderboard on these stages.

[wwbroe]

About same time for Hirvonen as his teammate Evans, loosing some time to Ostberg

[Sulland]

Østberg said before this rally that he tries to adapt to the car instead of try to adjust the car to himself. So he is like learning to drive on asfalt again. Hopefully he get to understand the car soon:)

Østberg has done the same transformation on gravel, that has worked. All he need is training with a good asphalt coach!

since the Norwegian series normally does not contain any asphalt rounds, the norwegian drivers do not have much experience driving fast on the black stuff.
pity really!