Rally Discussion and Bar Talk Thread

[focus206]

Is there an actual "rally sprint" championshop with R5s? Or maybe "what is the biggest one" out there?

I don't think there's any international rallysprint championship, even because the line between rally and rallysprint is blurred, depending on the country. You can find some national rallysprint championship, whether they're called rallysprint, mini rally or short rally.

[Norm75]

Would be nice to get drivers that drove multiple 2017reg cars do a comparison of how they were to drive compared with each other:

Candidates to ask during an interview:


Ogier - Polo, Fiesta, C3, Yaris (didn't drive i20)
Mikkelsen - Polo, Fiesta (tests on both surf.), C3, i20 ( no Yaris)
Tanak - Fiesta, Yaris, i20 ( no C3 and Polo)

I believe Ogiers wife reviewed the C3 couple years back.

[becher]

I believe Ogiers wife reviewed the C3 couple years back.

haha yeah she and here busy fingers where well qaulified to judge a multiple rally winner.

[Rally Hokkaido]

I just reported the various ...Rok spammers to hopefully be rid of them before the rally starts. Please do the same by hitting the caution mark at the bottom of any posts by them.

[becher]

Anybody knows if this 037 "restomod/replica" from the monte shakedown is built from scratch or do they honestly chop up a real 037?

[Norm75]

Anybody knows if this 037 "restomod/replica" from the monte shakedown is built from scratch or do they honestly chop up a real 037?

No that would be sacrilegious.
They buy up Lancia Monte Carlos (the base for the 037) and go from there.

[dimviii]

Isabelle Galmiche, Sébastien Loeb's co-driver: "I've always liked speed"


https://imgresizer.eurosport.com/unsafe/1200x0/filters:format(webp):focal(1274x942:1276x940)/origin-imgresizer.eurosport.com/2022/01/20/3292959-67339448-2560-1440.jpg

RALLYE MONTE-CARLO - A math teacher by training and freelance co-driver for Sébastien Loeb for more than ten years at Citroën and Hyundai, Isabelle Galmiche, 50, competes in the prestigious event alongside the nine-time world champion and joint record holder for victories ( 7) in the principality, from Thursday. She explains to us how she works with the Alsatian, and also Daniel Elena.

We know that few co-drivers make a living from their job in the world of rallying, even at a high level. Are you pro or amateur?
Isabelle Galmiche: I never had a pro status. Basically, I'm just a math teacher and a rally enthusiast for many years. I have been doing amateur rallies since 1984.
Did something predestine you to rally?


I. G.: I've always liked speed, a bit of a thrill. When I was young, I went to the specials with my brother. I've always been hooked. I think I've always been passionate about it.
How did the connection with Sébastien Loeb come about?
I. G.: We took part in the Challenge Trophy Citroën. We met through Citroën promotion formulas.
Later, you started collaborating with him doing replacements in the WRC.
I. G.: I was his backup co-driver, in a way, when Daniel [Elena] was not available to participate in the test sessions. I did my first official session with Seb in 2011 and then I did a lot with him at Citroën, and also at Hyundai. For a few years now, I've also been the opening co-driver with Patrick Magaud for Seb.
Daniel Elena often complained of being too low in the car to see the road well enough. What about you in the Ford Puma?
I. G.: I agree with Daniel on this point: I like to see a minimum of the road and in the Puma it's great. I am very well settled. Nothing to say.
Have you added your personal touch to Daniel's rating system?
I. G.: Sébastien has a well-established system and I don't interfere in that. The role of the co-pilot is to give back the information given to him by the pilot. I rode with many pilots, and each time I adapted.
For the general public, the role of co-pilot comes down to announcing these notes. But it's more than that: it is also sometimes necessary to help to repair, as Daniel often did...
I.G.: Absolutely. I have the information I need to intervene. During the test sessions, I had a lot of details and explanations about the car from the engineers and mechanics, in relation to the dashboard, the console. On the regulations too, which has changed a lot with the hybrids. Mechanical questions, Seb knows and I will be there if needed.


Apart from the notes, in what areas do you discuss with Seb?
I. G.: At all levels on the feeling of the car.
And Daniel?
I. G.: In fact, we know each other very well from my experience as an usher for them. There's no problem: I know I can call him for any questions. Of course, he answers me.
What road conditions are expected Thursday evening through Sunday noon?
I. G.: It will be a dry rally, which is not very common for a Monte-Carlo. In the 11/13 (Saturday) special, there will be just snow and ice.
The return of the "Nuit du Turini" (Thursday evening) will also be a great moment.
I. G.: Yes, it's a mythical stage. I did it in 2009, in IRC. The atmosphere at the pass is great.
The WRCs were already starting like catapults but there, with the 500 horsepower of the hybrid this year, it grows even more!
I. G.: Yes, it really pushes hard. The hybrid accentuates the phenomenon.

https://www.eurosport.fr/wrc/rallye-monte-carlo/2022/wrc-rallye-monte-carlo-2022-isabelle-galmiche-copilote-de-sebastien-loeb-j-ai-toujours-aime-la-vites_sto8725445/story.shtml

[lmmjvss]

I don't think there's any international rallysprint championship, even because the line between rally and rallysprint is blurred, depending on the country. You can find some national rallysprint championship, whether they're called rallysprint, mini rally or short rally.

Hmm interesting. I was thinking about Extreme-E's format, which is short, raced on one stage and its done. I was also re-watching 2020's Rally Sweden Lockdown (won by Oli Solberg) and it was also a "rally sprint" thing and I started to think "ah, theres something fun in this format eh?"... Idk, wrc is famous for being "hard to promote and to broadcast" bacause is too big and long ("thats what she said"), so I thought Rally Sprint is an interesting format. But yeah, couldnt find especifics on that, like full championships. Only things like you and Mirek said. It "depends" on country, event, etc...
Tnx fellas!

[Norm75]

On a completely different but cool topic, driving home from work this afternoon around a narrow country lane and a full on rally prep’d mk2 escort driving the other way in what looked like alied polymer livery but without the writing

[Norm75]

Just asked the missus if she drove past a cool car on the way home as she was following me in our Subaru. She said yeh he put his hand up and waved to me. She said she didn’t wave back so I called her a miserable bitch :)

[Sulland]

Finland has 1 - One driver in the top two classes in Monte Carlo!!

We will see one or two more on and off, and they have Pajari in WRC3.
But compared to what they used to have it is quite a change.

[Morte66]

So, when do we start the "Gus Greensmith - Future champion?" thread?

[becher]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeWSOZX-t2k&list=WL&index=1555

Pretty good look at the collection of the Dirtfish owner.

[pantealex]

Finland has 1 - One driver in the top two classes in Monte Carlo!!

We will see one or two more on and off, and they have Pajari in WRC3.
But compared to what they used to have it is quite a change.

Count again when you see Sweden entries... ;)

[Morte66]

What sort of stages can we expect for Safari Rally Kenya? Should we expect lots of road cleaning, like Portugal and Sardinia, so the running order is extremely important?

[AnttiL]

What sort of stages can we expect for Safari Rally Kenya? Should we expect lots of road cleaning, like Portugal and Sardinia, so the running order is extremely important?

Last year Ogier won first on the road...it was slippery for everyone

[240RS]

What sort of stages can we expect for Safari Rally Kenya? Should we expect lots of road cleaning, like Portugal and Sardinia, so the running order is extremely important?

Kenya is highly specialized. You tend to pick your way through the bad stuff and manage your pace accordingly. Road position is not a big thing. At least not as critical as say in the old Acropolis, for example.

[AnttiL]

Road position is most critical in Mexico, Sardegna and Portugal. The roads in Kenya are different, there's not that much of a hard base to be cleaned from loose gravel.

[dimviii]

Richard Mille
@Richard_Mille
·
21m
The Richard Mille Racing Team is replacing its driver line-up with a new trio combining ambition, experience and talent: eight-time world rally champion @SebOgier
, @LWadouxD44
, a rising star in motorsport and @Charles_Milesi
, reigning champion and 24 Hours of Le Mans.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FKcV_9ZXIAIymao?format=jpg&name=4096x4096


https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/ogier-to-contest-le-mans-24-hours-seals-wec-deal/

[Mirek]

Father and his children? :D

[dimviii]

where and when?

https://twitter.com/AutoCanario/status/1490089621182681091

[tommeke_B]

where and when?

https://twitter.com/AutoCanario/status/1490089621182681091

It's in the comments. Rallysprint de Gabiria 2008.

[dimviii]

we had talked about how Petter was involved so much at Olivers car/mechanics etc

https://twitter.com/Petter_Solberg/status/1496170671545610240

[AnttiL]

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2022/03/14/rally-finland-top-30-stages-introduction/

Soon I'll be listing the top 30 Rally Finland stages based on data.

[Rallyper]

we had talked about how Petter was involved so much at Olivers car/mechanics etc

https://twitter.com/Petter_Solberg/status/1496170671545610240

It used to be recorded one year before broadcasted. But yes father and som project also. Natural.

[ouvreur]

It used to be recorded one year before broadcasted. But yes father and som project also. Natural.

"Natural"...

Getting started, all the way up to first steps in ERC was a family / father and son project. It doesn't seem so helpful having your dad engineering the car for you at the top level, no matter how many titles that dad has won...

[Rallyper]

"Natural"...

Getting started, all the way up to first steps in ERC was a family / father and son project. It doesn't seem so helpful having your dad engineering the car for you at the top level, no matter how many titles that dad has won...

Don´t think he does anymore. Didn´t mean that. However it´s natural for a father following his sons career. Ask me... ;)

Maybe our norwegian friends do know?

[SubaruNorway]

"Natural"...

Getting started, all the way up to first steps in ERC was a family / father and son project. It doesn't seem so helpful having your dad engineering the car for you at the top level, no matter how many titles that dad has won...

Sometimes in the beginning it seemed like Petter had more control over the car than the Hyundai engineers and the car was not very good, many of the same problems coming back several times. Things got a lot better when he got the new engineer Gerard De Jongh from Monza.

[Kenneth]

Jost Capito told story in Drive to Survive about when one of his VW drivers lacked confidence, he told his co-driver to squeeze his balls. Then he asked driver "Do you feel the balls? So drive with balls you have".

Didn't say what driver it was, but I'm pretty sure it was JML.

[becher]

Interview with Biasion:

https://youtu.be/guB5-odP31U

In italian, but these guys usually add english subtitles for their international audiance. I haven't seen it yet, but they made a few videos with ex Abarth people that were very interesting.

[AnttiL]

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2022/03/14/rally-finland-top-30-stages-introduction/

Soon I'll be listing the top 30 Rally Finland stages based on data.

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2022/03/18/rally-finland-top-30-stages-21-30/

Rally Finland top stages 20-30

[focus206]

First race of FIA World Endurance Championship finished at Sebring.
Ogier's Richard Mille Racing Team finished 12th out of 15 in the LMP2 category (13 cars finished without troubles). Halfway through the race, he said he couldn't find the rythm with the car. In his last stint though, he managed to improve his lap times compared to his teammates.

Charles Milesi: 38 laps, best 1:52:33 (Milesi is 2021 LMP2 champion, drove way less because the race was red flagged twice)
Sebastien Ogier: 83 laps, best 1:52:67
Lilou Wadoux: 82 laps, best 1:52:90 (First race in prototypes for her, just like for Ogier)

[EstWRC]

this long pause feels like off-season again...even worse i would say, no news at all

they definitely have to find something for next year to fill the gap

[Danny0405]

For the 1st season of a new regulation, having a long pause at this moment is not bad even if it can be quite boring for fans.

It allows teams to work on the car, especially when they were late like Hyundai, and to work a little more quietly on specific issues such as the hybrid problems seen in Sweden.
I think that, if it is used properly by FIA and teams, it will help to improve the level on the long-term (better than being always in short-term workarounds to have short-term improvements).

But definitely yes, it is only valuable for this season, not the next ones. A return in Mexico would be good.

[Rallyper]

For the 1st season of a new regulation, having a long pause at this moment is not bad even if it can be quite boring for fans.

It allows teams to work on the car, especially when they were late like Hyundai, and to work a little more quietly on specific issues such as the hybrid problems seen in Sweden.
I think that, if it is used properly by FIA and teams, it will help to improve the level on the long-term (better than being always in short-term workarounds to have short-term improvements).

But definitely yes, it is only valuable for this season, not the next ones. A return in Mexico would be good.

Portugal was in March ten years ago...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

A question leading from a recent AR podcast...

Have there been any WRC drivers who have been a team-mate of both Loeb and Ogier ?

[HKSjbg]

Tanak. Briefly at Hyundai in 2020 with Loeb and of course at M-Sport from 2017-18

[AnttiL]

A question leading from a recent AR podcast...

Have there been any WRC drivers who have been a team-mate of both Loeb and Ogier ?


Sordo in Citroen 2010 (with both at the same time)
Mikkelsen with Ogier in VW 2013-2016, with Loeb in Hyundai 2019

[WRCStan]

Ostberg? or is the definition too loose - M-Sport/Ogier 2017, Citroen/Loeb 2018.

[AnttiL]

Ostberg? or is the definition too loose - M-Sport/Ogier 2017, Citroen/Loeb 2018.

In 2017 Östberg was in his own team, just entered through M-Sport, but they didn't collaborate at all.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Good answers ! It's surprisingly few considering the number of years they have both driven.

[KiwiWRCfan]

this long pause feels like off-season again...even worse i would say, no news at all

they definitely have to find something for next year to fill the gap

Yes it does feel like an off season again.
We need to assess the calendar gap with expectations and available knowledge at time calendar was set. To set events to later months was in my opinion a smart decision at the time. They were difficult decisions in a pandemic hit world. Hopefully situation continues to improve with more certainty for people everywhere. Setting of next years calendar should be easier.

[AnttiL]

Yes it does feel like an off season again.
We need to assess the calendar gap with expectations and available knowledge at time calendar was set. To set events to later months was in my opinion a smart decision at the time. They were difficult decisions in a pandemic hit world. Hopefully situation continues to improve with more certainty for people everywhere. Setting of next years calendar should be easier.

very good point Gary, definitely they must have thought about COVID as one factor. Remember in 2020 they had to cancel all rallies from March to July and people were here mocking FIA for not getting any rallies organized although in the end the situation turned out better for the summer. In 2021 we had a similar calendar as now with emphasis on the summer dates and it worked. Monte Carlo struggled with tight restrictions and Sweden was canceled altogether, as was Japan.

Another thing is that it's not that simple to make rallies change their dates. The hole is effectively left by Mexico, which is still off the calendar for COVID reasons(?). And furthermore, if Mexico makes it to next year's calendar, they won't have to do further arrangements.

They could have moved Portugal to March, but it's supposed to be a "linked" rally with Sardinia, so they would have to move both, and I'm sure both events benefit from a summer data in terms of spectators and road conditions (remember how ERC Fafe had to cancel stages a week ago)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The Promoter is probably ok with this WRC break so as to show and promote the first two rounds of the newly-acquired ERC.

[flat_right]

Agree with all the points but as a suggestion (maybe someone reads this) then maybe they can think out something for fans in the future. For example something like Drive to Survive in F1 but much better without the fake drama etc. Some behind the scenes stuff, meetings etc from past year. Or some special episodes with drivers. Would have been nice and could fill the gap and keep the buzz going. Now it is very-very quiet.

[AnttiL]

Agree with all the points but as a suggestion (maybe someone reads this) then maybe they can think out something for fans in the future. For example something like Drive to Survive in F1 but much better without the fake drama etc. Some behind the scenes stuff, meetings etc from past year. Or some special episodes with drivers. Would have been nice and could fill the gap and keep the buzz going. Now it is very-very quiet.

I think this was pretty awesome. https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc/wrc-at-50-1970s/

But I agree with you, maybe some special from WRC+, like at least retro highlights or something

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Even Dirtfish have run out of WRC stories and reporters are asking fans for their favourite unusual WRC facts... and even funny driver names.

[AnttiL]

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2022/03/18/rally-finland-top-30-stages-21-30/

Rally Finland top stages 20-30

And next we go to positions 11-19

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2022/03/25/rally-finland-top-30-stages-11-19/

[Lancia Stratos]

I think this was pretty awesome. https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc/wrc-at-50-1970s/

But I agree with you, maybe some special from WRC+, like at least retro highlights or something

Another one up now.

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc/wrc-at-50-1980s/

[pantealex]

and next we go to positions 11-19

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2022/03/25/rally-finland-top-30-stages-11-19/

top-10 ?

[AnttiL]

Forgot to post here

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2022/04/02/rally-finland-top-30-stages-1-10/

[lmmjvss]

Just came here to say that I find interesting to listen to Colin and the other Dirt Fish guys talking on the podcast about how WRC is the "ultimate proving ground" for manufacturers to develop technology and showcase their innovations...
While WEC reporters say WEC is the ultimate proving ground for manufacturers to develop technology and etc...
And F1 say it is the ultimate proving ground for bla bla bla.... And Formula-E and Extreme-E also say they are the proving ground for new tech and bla bla bla...

hahah Interesting.. I enjoy all of these championships and yet I dont see any of them being the proving ground for anything. I dont even know what that mean. Are any of these series actually developing something for the road?

Cuz if I were to guess, maybe that RoboRace could be the actual series that could be used as a "proving ground" series, but so far no one seems interested haha... The new FIM E-Xplorer World Cup could be more interesting, with 3 "manufacturers" building an electric moto that is capable of racing in urban and terrain (if we are talking about "proving ground"). The Air Race is also returning without RedBull, and they have this plan to start having eVtols with only manufacturer teams. That would be VEERY interesting from this tech-development point of view...

Where is "autosport" right now?

[WRCStan]

Where is "autosport" right now?

I've not listened to a recent Dirtfish pod on this but context might be key. If by 'manufacturers' you/they mean car brands then I think you've got it right. Dirtfish guys are just playing the promo game for the championship, which is a promo game for the brands. These have nothing to prove or develop, consumers may translate winning to quality but really can expect their cars to work all the time, every time, everywhere, else the lease/contract is void and the manufacturer gets it back. Don't think many new car sales are people buying cars outright based on reliability, durability and engineering technology, having test driven them and not just ordered online lol.

If the claims mean these championships are a great proving ground for third party manufacturers of parts used in road cars then they may have a great point, this is more in tune with what is happening in these championships - so the likes of Kreisel, Compact Dynamics, Williams, Bosch, Continental etc. etc. could be the manufacturers put to test for selling into the road car manufacturers. I'm not sure what needs developing now for road cars more than batteries and motors, and apparently (https://www.treehugger.com/who-makes-electric-car-batteries-5204752) "more than two-thirds of battery manufacturing is controlled by three companies—CATL, LG, and Panasonic". Probably not what these journos mean though.

I think everybody here agrees that 'win on Sunday, sell on Monday' is well out of date. Car brands now are just keen to build the best software for a dashboard display store for upselling features like trizone climate control, activating heated seats or windscreen wipers. There's no motorsport for that.

[dimviii]

Οgier teasing Sebastien Loeb

When you look at the months ahead ����: 1️⃣ @DTM race
, the @ExtremeELive
, the World Rally-Raid Championship … and maybe more ��


Come on Seb don't be shy... announce this Portugal rally ����!! History that we have a little fun ��

https://twitter.com/SebastienLoeb/status/1512365856763830274

[EstWRC]

https://twitter.com/kiwiwrcfan/status/1513801388429836289?s=21&t=DhQZii4FikSlY3ybj3FKXA

I didn’t even realize before this tweet it will be that long.

Only 9 days left until rally Croatia but this long pause has left me with a feeling like the WRC doesn’t exist anymore

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/kiwiwrcfan/status/1513801388429836289?s=21&t=DhQZii4FikSlY3ybj3FKXA

I didn’t even realize before this tweet it will be that long.

Only 9 days left until rally Croatia but this long pause has left me with a feeling like the WRC doesn’t exist anymore

We had the same last year really. 222 days from Sardinia 2020 to Portugal 2021 as a big gap of no gravel rallies and two months from Arctic to Croatia.

But it will be really busy after Croatia!

[dimviii]

We have asked Didier Charre for permission (rights reserved) to be able to upload this great document..��

���� It's about some pre Monte-Carlo Audi Sport tests, back in 1984, where they had a Peugeot 205 T16 to compare. Röhrl can be seen trying it out.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQFBSCgXwAwC5K8?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQFBSCnWUAskUzt?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQFBSC1XIAUVb8H?format=jpg&name=medium

https://twitter.com/MundoRallyes/status/1513562755479003140

[bomber21]

So big breaks are really bad for the sport. New fans are wondering if the championship still exists. Me, a hardcore fan, finds myself to lose interest.

[AndyRAC]

So big breaks are really bad for the sport. New fans are wondering if the championship still exists. Me, a hardcore fan, finds myself to lose interest.

Yes, quite agree. Whatever the reasons, it's something they need to address in the future. I much prefer the old style season with a summer break after the Acropolis in early June - and a return in late July, when it was often NZ. By April, we'd usually had 4-5 events. For new/casual fans, it seems as though it's just disappeared into the ether.

[AnttiL]

I would say it's about two things:

1) Rally Mexico not being in the calendar and other rallies not being able to move their slots
2) Calendar focused in the summer because in 2020 and 2021 COVID-19 situation was a lot better in the summer time.

I've also noticed that the rally twitter community is quite dead.

The Ukraine situation also likely takes people's attention from their normal interests.

[AndyRAC]

Yes, there are reasons, however the latter hasn't seemed to affect either MotoGP, F1 or other major series.

Those running WRC need to realise 'dead time' is a killer for interest in a series.

[Rallyper]

Ten years ago. Loutraki 2012.
Trying to paste a pic, but no...

[AnttiL]

Yes, there are reasons, however the latter hasn't seemed to affect either MotoGP, F1 or other major series.

Those running WRC need to realise 'dead time' is a killer for interest in a series.

Apparently the Rally1 cars being finalized so late also affected that, the teams couldn't ship their overseas early enough. Although contrary to what they say here, the cars are typically not shipped to Americas, but flown in, only the service gear and spare parts are shipped.

https://www.rallit.fi/torppaako-yhdysvallat-argentiinan-rallin-haaveet-paluusta-mm-sarjaan-saatamme-olla-silloin-ulkona-kalenterista/

[rallyfiend]

Yes, there are reasons, however the latter hasn't seemed to affect either MotoGP, F1 or other major series.

Those running WRC need to realise 'dead time' is a killer for interest in a series.

MotoGP runs almost entirely on airfreight.

F1 runs multiple long haul kits.

I think the issue for WRC teams this year was having the spare parts / hybrid kits ready to put in containers and on the high seas in January.... It's not about the cars themselves.

We all know how far Hyundai was behind in EVERYTHING to do with their homologation / testing. Let alone having duplicate bits and pieces...

[bomber21]

I think Hyundai need a new social media manager. Their twitter account is so passive and non enthusiastic, it is like a news website announcing results. Even M-Sport social media were more enthusiastic last year when they were absolutely lost and non competitive.

[steve.mandzij]

With victory in Croatia, Kalle Rovanperä becomes the youngest driver to win on all three surfaces; the previous holder of said record was Ogier, 29 years and 2 months at his first Sweden win.



Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[pantealex]

With victory in Croatia, Kalle Rovanperä becomes the youngest driver to win on all three surfaces; the previous holder of said record was Ogier, 29 years and 2 months at his first Sweden win.


another deadline setted for Oliver.
He has 11 months to beat it.

[Rallyper]

another deadline setted for Oliver.
He has 11 months to beat it.

If Toyota hires him he might within 24 months... :) :)

[cali]

If Toyota hires him he might within 24 months... :) :)Wishful thinking... Kalle had massive experience from WRC2 + titles when he sat to the WRC car.
Oliver has to learn in the WRC car mostly now and it isn't going to be that rapid development curve for him.

I know you Per like to have swedish top driver in the WRC ((remember the cases of Tidemand and Bergqvist (i was right in both cases btw)) but bending the real picture doesn't make it real. Kalle is far ahead compared to Oliver and this with or without Toyota

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[AnttiL]

Same thing with Oliver, Fourmaux and Greensmith - they stepped onto the top level without really winning anything in WRC2 (Oliver was fastest RC2 in Estonia 2020 and Greensmith in Monte 2019), too early.

[becher]

https://youtu.be/HvRter4JC1M

Another Biasion interview.

[flat_right]

I will post it here. In Polish rally, there was a life-threatening accident. These guys were extremely lucky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA1_5oQuZ_w

[Rallyper]

The expectations on Oliver is massive. Both here and elsewhere.
Therefore I´d say you guys are judging him much harder than for example Loubet, Fourmaux et others.
Having said that it´s fair to say he has done some bad performances. Finland last year was one. Croatia on Saturday was drvers error as well, but - if car wasn´t burning he´d started on Sunday. Sp outcome of his off was far worse and out of his boundarys.

No one can deny Olivers progress and speed. What I´ve said is that every driver have offs in their early careers. Kalle too. Why judge Oliver harder than other drivers?
About Tidemand and Bergkvist, it was a discussion about money and funding.
A driver who can´t compete frequently on top level, will never gain the speed needed for titles. So about Tidemand and Bergkvist no one have the answers, where they´d been if they had best opportunities.

[AnttiL]

I'm not saying a driver should not be allowed to make mistakes, everyone does. And I'm not judging Oliver harder than Fourmaux. I just said that these two drivers were lifted onto the top class too early. They haven't practiced winning, driving clean rallies from begin to end when there is tough competition.

We always make the comparison to Rovanperä, and we can see that he made mistakes in the beginning of his WRC2 career (Argentina 2018, Monte 2019, Sweden 2019, Corsica 2019, Deutschland 2019, Turkey 2019) but around this time he was also winning a lot. Wales 2018, Catalunya 2018 (against Kopecky!), Chile 2019, Portugal 2019, Sardinia 2019, Finland 2019, Wales 2019. I'm not even counting Australia 2017 because he was the only car in the class. Meanwhile in Finland 2018 a technical fault stole his win. When he stepped into the WRC car, it was no more learning, he was right away up there fighting for stage wins and podiums. It was just small refinement and learning to get to winning.

I know that Fourmaux is difficult to compare since his car was not on the same level last year and he still was up there in stage times. Oliver managed one 3rd stage time in Arctic Rally on the WRC car and a couple of fourth places there and in Monza. Oliver's WRC2 season in 2021 was particularly horrible.

[Jarek Z]

I will post it here. In Polish rally, there was a life-threatening accident. These guys were extremely lucky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA1_5oQuZ_w

Luckily, both the driver and co-driver are OK. The aftermath:
https://rallypl.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/IMG_20220423_165618-scaled.jpg

[dupanton]

I think this goes for Fourmaux and Solberg, but also for several others in the past (Camilli...): They went to WRC too early. I think you need at least 2 seasons in WRC2 fighting for wins at least, before making the step to WRC. You don't have the time (anymore) to learn the rallies and the driving while you are in a WRC.

[Sulland]

I will post it here. In Polish rally, there was a life-threatening accident. These guys were extremely lucky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA1_5oQuZ_w

Reminded me of Kubicas accident. They were lucky!

[EstWRC]

I think this goes for Fourmaux and Solberg, but also for several others in the past (Camilli...): They went to WRC too early. I think you need at least 2 seasons in WRC2 fighting for wins at least, before making the step to WRC. You don't have the time (anymore) to learn the rallies and the driving while you are in a WRC.

I would even add Tänak into this list. IMO 2012 was still too early for him to step into WRC.

[pantealex]

Small 4 stage rally in Turku, Finland has 2 ex. FORD drivers making "comeback" after long long break, in co-drivers side:

Suvi Jyrkiäinen - Antony Warmbold FORD Fiesta (Suvi is daughter of Minna Sillankorva, She did some Mazda factory drives with RX7 and 323 FWD in 80´s)

Roope Hirvonen -Mikko Hirvonen FORD Focus (Son/Dad)

https://akk.autourheilu.fi/Public/Kiti/Competition/CompetitionEnrollListPlain.aspx?id=15093

[Lancia Stratos]

I think Hyundai need a new social media manager. Their twitter account is so passive and non enthusiastic, it is like a news website announcing results. Even M-Sport social media were more enthusiastic last year when they were absolutely lost and non competitive.

They have a new one!

[flat_right]

Was thinking about Hyundai and why they started so late with the new WRC car and I don't know if it has been discussed here but maybe the reason was that they were waiting for Christian Loriaux arrival to the team? And maybe this was the reason why Ford started so early that they knew Loriaux would be departing and needed as much input from him as possible.

[AnttiL]

Was thinking about Hyundai and why they started so late with the new WRC car and I don't know if it has been discussed here but maybe the reason was that they were waiting for Christian Loriaux arrival to the team? And maybe this was the reason why Ford started so early that they knew Loriaux would be departing and needed as much input from him as possible.

Loriaux wasn't working on rally cars at M-Sport during his last years.

I think When Loriaux came to Hyundai, he wanted to re-design the car throughly, which set them back more weeks, or even months. Although it could be just Adamo shit talking to explain why they were so late.

[dimviii]

Was thinking about Hyundai and why they started so late with the new WRC car and I don't know if it has been discussed here but maybe the reason was that they were waiting for Christian Loriaux arrival to the team? And maybe this was the reason why Ford started so early that they knew Loriaux would be departing and needed as much input from him as possible.

late ok from Korean headquarters could be a reason.

[bomber21]

They have a new one!
Even worse…

[EstWRC]

Late Ok from headquarters + late arrival from Loriaux and other engineers

Ott mentioned it in the betsafe podcast

[wyler]

nice one from wrc social:

https://www.facebook.com/WorldRally/photos/a.67406350677/10159009558800678/

[focus206]

Second round of World Endurance Championship in Spa:
Ogier's Richard Mille Racing Team finished 8th in LMP2 class, out of 15. A bit of a joke of a race, more than half of the race under yellow / safety car / red flag. Impossible to properly compare Ogier's times with his teammates because as it rained a lot, conditions varied massively.
Not a good drive by Ogier in my opinion. He drove on a very wet track, got overtaken by 2 competitors and then went off, hitting the barriers and losing 2 more places. In typical Ogier fashion, the car was unharmed and he continued (haven't I see this before? :D )
Later he went off in the gravel again and went to the pits to change nose (so maybe the contact with the barriers did damage the car a little). His team was close to last in category, but later they managed to recover places thanks to favourable safety cars / tyre changes.

[WRCStan]

Meanwhile, the other Seb is leading a second FIA world rally championship like the unstoppable force that he is. Sorry if that point has been made, I only just noticed. Loeb leads Al-Attiyah 112 to 111 pts after 2 rounds with 2 to go.

https://www.worldrallyraidchampionship.com/en/rankings/fia1

[lmmjvss]

IDK why but I dont get the feeling of a WORLD RALLY event in Croatia and Ypres (last year).
Same for Monza and the Artic rally too. I dont know, these four places screeeeam "Rally2" only. Not sure what you think but I'd ditch Croatia and Ypress for 2023 in a heartbeat

[steve.mandzij]

IDK why but I dont get the feeling of a WORLD RALLY event in Croatia and Ypres (last year).
Same for Monza and the Artic rally too. I dont know, these four places screeeeam "Rally2" only. Not sure what you think but I'd ditch Croatia and Ypress for 2023 in a heartbeatI don't know what you're on but Croatia is easily one of the most exciting events on the calendar.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[denkimi]

IDK why but I dont get the feeling of a WORLD RALLY event in Croatia and Ypres (last year).
Same for Monza and the Artic rally too. I dont know, these four places screeeeam "Rally2" only. Not sure what you think but I'd ditch Croatia and Ypress for 2023 in a heartbeat

i think it's just because we already knew those rallies before.

[WRCStan]

IDK why but I dont get the feeling of a WORLD RALLY event in Croatia and Ypres (last year).
Same for Monza and the Artic rally too. I dont know, these four places screeeeam "Rally2" only. Not sure what you think but I'd ditch Croatia and Ypress for 2023 in a heartbeat

A lot of people don't get the WORLD RALLY feeling at any WRC event these days.

[Sergiow]

Second round of World Endurance Championship in Spa:
Ogier's Richard Mille Racing Team finished 8th in LMP2 class, out of 15. A bit of a joke of a race, more than half of the race under yellow / safety car / red flag. Impossible to properly compare Ogier's times with his teammates because as it rained a lot, conditions varied massively.
Not a good drive by Ogier in my opinion. He drove on a very wet track, got overtaken by 2 competitors and then went off, hitting the barriers and losing 2 more places. In typical Ogier fashion, the car was unharmed and he continued (haven't I see this before? :D )
Later he went off in the gravel again and went to the pits to change nose (so maybe the contact with the barriers did damage the car a little). His team was close to last in category, but later they managed to recover places thanks to favourable safety cars / tyre changes.

I find it still a bit of a pity that Ogier is having this big WEC chance when Neuville did so well in his one and only Touring Car race in 2019 https://tintopguru.wordpress.com/tag/thierry-neuville/

[flat_right]

Ott Tänak on the Betsafe blog about Dirtfish' article "Is WRC+ Really Changing Rallying?"

"This option has certainly completely changed the nature of the rally. In the old days, the rally was more of an adventure, where it was important to write a good legend with two passes. Today, everyone can adjust their legend from video to someone who is faster, which is why racing has become very intense, with young people learning through video tests and taking it as a circuit race. Of course, we also work through the videos to take advantage of the experience of all the riders in case someone made a mistake or got a surprise somewhere."

I can understand about correcting/adjusting the notes, checking difficult places from All Live but hasn't the video part and checking the legend (and memorizing it) available for couple of decades already? At least as long as Ott has been driving? No?

[AnttiL]

Ott Tänak on the Betsafe blog about Dirtfish' article "Is WRC+ Really Changing Rallying?"

"This option has certainly completely changed the nature of the rally. In the old days, the rally was more of an adventure, where it was important to write a good legend with two passes. Today, everyone can adjust their legend from video to someone who is faster, which is why racing has become very intense, with young people learning through video tests and taking it as a circuit race. Of course, we also work through the videos to take advantage of the experience of all the riders in case someone made a mistake or got a surprise somewhere."

I can understand about correcting/adjusting the notes, checking difficult places from All Live but hasn't the video part and checking the legend (and memorizing it) available for couple of decades already? At least as long as Ott has been driving? No?

I ’ve heard Grönholm was one of the first to film their recces. But other drivers’ onboards weren’t available until 2014

[KiwiWRCfan]

This used to be a nice bar until AlanRok turned up.

[EstWRC]

Cant We really do something regarding that?

It’s getting out of hands and so annoying

[bandit12]

This is slowly getting out of hand yes.

[bomber21]

Jesus, please ban the spam bots.

[Sulland]

Are all of us reporting in to the management about the ROK family?

Who on the forum are responsible to ban them from posting?

_______________________

And by the way where is Mirek theese days, miss his posts here!

[the sniper]

With the way things are going, if Dirtfish started a forum, I think we'd all Rok off there instead... Such a shame.

[cali]

Do we have mods here or is someone willing to be one?

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[bandit12]

Seems there is none.

[EstWRC]

I can easily be one if allowed. I’m here almost all day long

[bomber21]

Please contact someone to become a mod or let’s start something else.

[cali]

Please contact someone to become a mod or let’s start something else.I dunno if Mark is active anymore but Pino sometimes shows up here and there.



Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[cali]

I can easily be one if allowed. I’m here almost all day long
You get my vote easily.
Pls write to Mark or Pino.

[WRCStan]

With the way things are going, if Dirtfish started a forum, I think we'd all Rok off there instead... Such a shame.


Please contact someone to become a mod or let’s start something else.

I don't like the bot-spam or the abandoned theme park sensation but I do like this place permits free thought, is independent, is free of ads, gaslighting, algorithms and wokeneg; has (assumed) privacy over social mejuh companies, but most importantly has an established community that keeps on attracting and welcoming people. I don't think there's mass enthusiasm to either leave here or push for traction elsewhere even if an effort was made.

However, I started a Discord server out of curiosity, never used it before. It's not a BB forum, it won't replace here but could have potential for new, different things. If anybody wants to help build it/one in the spirit of this forum to see if it gains traction, just shout.

[KiwiWRCfan]

Discussion point.
Friday of Rally Portugal 2012 was much more dramatic than Friday of Rally Portugal 2022.

[skarderud]

From a safe source, Citröen going to quit rallying, but Stellantis going to keep up with other brands.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Eli]

From a safe source, Citröen going to quit rallying, but Stellantis going to keep up with other brands.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

Are we back in October 2019? I thought they already quit rallying. Also, does this mean will see Lancia back in 2024 or something like that?

[wyler]

Are we back in October 2019? I thought they already quit rallying. Also, does this mean will see Lancia back in 2024 or something like that?

Lancia is rumored back but by a longer term, surely after 2025 reg renewal...

[Sulland]

Are we back in October 2019? I thought they already quit rallying. Also, does this mean will see Lancia back in 2024 or something like that?

Sorry but Lancia is a dead horse. Stellantis will choose another brand.

[djip]

Sorry but Lancia is a dead horse. Stellantis will choose another brand.

My bet on Fiat or Opel. Both need image boosts ...

[Eli]

Sorry but Lancia is a dead horse. Stellantis will choose another brand.

Nothing to be sorry about, do you know who will replace them instead and do you know if they’ll be in the top category?

[wyler]

Sorry but Lancia is a dead horse. Stellantis will choose another brand.

there's a quote on it by the lancia ceo...

this time is lancia ceo to state there's the opportunity to do do it, but needs time and to "be good in doing homework".
also hint to reviving hf branded car for lancia sport section...

italian media: http://www.areacorse.com/lancia-ritorno-ai-rally/

[skarderud]

Are we back in October 2019? I thought they already quit rallying. Also, does this mean will see Lancia back in 2024 or something like that?No, the WRC2/Rally2 operation.
WRC was cut in 2019.

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[skarderud]

It is 12 brands in Stellantis, Opel and Fiat is obvious candidates.
I guess/hope for 1 brand in each class.

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[Eli]

No, the WRC2/Rally2 operation.
WRC was cut in 2019.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

I know, I was only kidding, I'm aware that for now they're running their WRC2/Rally 2 program.

[Sulland]

Lancia has from what I can see one - 1 car in their portfolio, this;
https://www.lancia.com/ypsilon-collections

even with one new car made for rallying, not man cars will get sold.

[wyler]

Lancia has from what I can see one - 1 car in their portfolio, this;
https://www.lancia.com/ypsilon-collections

even with one new car made for rallying, not man cars will get sold.

lancia plan is to launch brand new vehicles every 2 years from 2024 on. a new ypsilon, a new suv, the new delta. also revamp the hf brand for sport sector.

quote from lancia ceo ( linked above from ita media)

[Danny0405]

Quite strange from Citroen to withdraw from Rally2 whereas their program is going well and now competing with Skoda. They could keep a joint program with PH Sport as Skoda does with Toksport.

If another brand from Stellantis comes, most logical would be either Opel as they are improving in Rally (+ some experience with e-rally) or Lancia (if Stellantis wants to make it their equivalent of Alpine)

[Sulland]

One from the ROK family, that are spamming this forum, is out driving rally this weekend. :p

Turk Rok does well!
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/74234-amtk-rally-velenje-2022/

[pantealex]

Lancia has from what I can see one - 1 car in their portfolio, this;
https://www.lancia.com/ypsilon-collections

even with one new car made for rallying, not man cars will get sold.

as said: 2024 will come new "Ypsilon" which is "same" car than C3/Corsa/208 so perfectly suitable size for rallying. I don't care which brand Stellantis chooses, I just hope that come/stay in rallying.

[WRCStan]

Elfyn on Ralio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UxTnAPV6nc

*Pirelli getting unfair criticism in Portugal, roads worse than Turkey.
*Heat in the car, what they can do about it, the Rally1 build,

Neat brief pre-rally vid IMO, caught the one with Gus last time out too. Both drivers more relaxed than usual media.

[Portimao]

I started wondering, what was the reason behind removing paddle shifts in Rally1 this year?

[Eli]

I started wondering, what was the reason behind removing paddle shifts in Rally1 this year?

Cost saving measures.

[Franky]

I don't think it is possible to consume as much pills as the Rok gang is pushing here.

[lmmjvss]

Two random question for you, fellas.
1- Does any of you follow the SCORE championship from america? The "Baja" race's Trophy Trucks.
2- Do you think Having Dakar's Lightweight and SSV (t3 and t4) cars in a WRC class would be a good thing? Not sure if they actually sell products in europe as they do in america, for example.

[EstWRC]

this spamming here is next level already, lol

who the mods were here? I could write and ask to help with this

[KiwiWRCfan]

I wish the Rok's would just Rok off and not reappear here

[EstWRC]

point scores from the two gravel rounds (found from EE forum)

Rovanperä 44p
Tänak 35p
Sordo 34p
Evans 22p
Breen 22p
Katsuta 21p
Loubet 18p
Neuville 18p

[WRCStan]

I've just ignored the Rokbots then set a ublock rule on .postbitim.postbitignored. Now there's ~3 posts on a page so not really as good as blocking them but at least you can view a thread without scrolling through shitty links. Thirty second temporary half-fix.

[cali]

this spamming here is next level already, lol

who the mods were here? I could write and ask to help with thisMark and Pino

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[AnttiL]

point scores from the two gravel rounds (found from EE forum)

Rovanperä 44p
Tänak 35p
Sordo 34p
Evans 22p
Breen 22p
Katsuta 21p
Loubet 18p
Neuville 18p

And who was first on the road ;)

[skarderud]

This ROK-spam-shit is on it these days, how hard can it be to remove these?


Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Get to it Mods !

https://blog.vanillaforums.com/product/9-ways-to-eliminate-spam-in-your-community-forum

[Gregor-y]

Two random question for you, fellas.
1- Does any of you follow the SCORE championship from america? The "Baja" race's Trophy Trucks.
2- Do you think Having Dakar's Lightweight and SSV (t3 and t4) cars in a WRC class would be a good thing? Not sure if they actually sell products in europe as they do in america, for example.

Rally's road-relevance is already out the door so tube-frames with plastic pickup truck stamps over them would look fancy and be exciting to watch on a stage but they're a lot larger than most rally cars. They're also not particularly suited to corners unless it's for a three-wheeled sliding spectacle.

Like old Group N parts a lot of those bits can be slapped on to a truck or Jeep so you can pretend you're a racer. Normally it makes the vehicle downright dangerous but safety/standard/inspection rules are pretty woeful, here, and that assumes anyone would enforce what rules we have.

In US rallies dirt bikes and UTVs are creeping in to the less stringent events. They're cheaper, simpler and have more resale value than a prepared car.

[WRCStan]

Two random question for you, fellas.
1- Does any of you follow the SCORE championship from america? The "Baja" race's Trophy Trucks.
2- Do you think Having Dakar's Lightweight and SSV (t3 and t4) cars in a WRC class would be a good thing? Not sure if they actually sell products in europe as they do in america, for example.

1. No, I can't relate to it. I drive production touring cars on roads whenever I go anywhere.
2. No, because same reason. Rally is a road competition for vehicles that go the distance, most SSVs do the opposite. There are cross-country rallies for off-roaders which also allow cross-country cars in T1 and T2, so there's no pressing need to put them in WRC. Interesting though, Middle East and African Rally Championships let T4 in so good question for the appeal of WRC outside Europe, but for me keep on-road and off-road disciplines separate.

[bomber21]

I give up with this sh*t

[EstWRC]

Mark and Pino

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

wrote to Pino, but Mark who exactly? difficult to search for users here

[Franky]

wrote to Pino, but Mark who exactly? difficult to search for users here

Here you go - https://www.motorsportforums.com/member.php?3-Mark

[cali]

Here you go - https://www.motorsportforums.com/member.php?3-MarkI sent him the same link via PM

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[WRCStan]

This is beyond the role of a forum mod. AshRok has had at least three new accounts and done 1,000 posts in three days. No human should be playing whack-a-mole like this.

[bomber21]

Forum software is outdated, this is why all these spam bots join everyday.

[focus206]

Good enough result by Ogier's Richard Mille Racing Team at the 24 hours of Le Mans, finishing in P13 (9th in class).
Ogier's best lap was 1,7 seconds slower than Milesi's and 0,5 seconds faster than Liloux's.
Dirtfish is hyping Ogier's result in the article, but in my opinion he's doing decent, nothing special even for a rookie. Especially when we consider he was in talk with Toyota for a works seat with them in WEC, there are way faster drivers. For example, Vanthoor and Bortolotti, two of the fastest GT drivers around, were quite faster than Milesi in their first prototype race.
Then again, sometimes a slower driver gets carried by 2 faster ones, so it's not impossible that Toyota WEC team will sign Ogier.

https://dirtfish.com/road-racing/ogiers-first-le-mans-how-did-he-do/

[Eli]

Good enough result by Ogier's Richard Mille Racing Team at the 24 hours of Le Mans, finishing in P13 (9th in class).
Ogier's best lap was 1,7 seconds slower than Milesi's and 0,5 seconds faster than Liloux's.
Dirtfish is hyping Ogier's result in the article, but in my opinion he's doing decent, nothing special even for a rookie. Especially when we consider he was in talk with Toyota for a works seat with them in WEC, there are way faster drivers. For example, Vanthoor and Bortolotti, two of the fastest GT drivers around, were quite faster than Milesi in their first prototype race.
Then again, sometimes a slower driver gets carried by 2 faster ones, so it's not impossible that Toyota WEC team will sign Ogier.

https://dirtfish.com/road-racing/ogiers-first-le-mans-how-did-he-do/

He can always do another full season in the WEC with the LMP2 car, so he gets to grips with it, experience counts a lot here, and it's always tough to make the transition from rallying to circuit racing and vice versa, I think he'd be pleased with getting to the finish, he said from the start he wasn't expecting to win or anything like that.

[EstWRC]

Regarding that. Our Estonian driver Martin Rump did history as being first Estonian to compete at Le Mans in LMGTE Am class. Rump did his shifts very good and even managed to lead at one point but unfortunately they had suspension problems later on and one of the drivers went out briefly and they finished at 11th although being in podium contention all the race.

But a very good debut from him

[Eli]

Regarding that. Our Estonian driver Martin Rump did history as being first Estonian to compete at Le Mans in LMGTE Am class. Rump did his shifts very good and even managed to lead at one point but unfortunately they had suspension problems later on and one of the drivers went out briefly and they finished at 11th although being in podium contention all the race.

But a very good debut from him

Which car did he drive? and with who did he share the car? Asking out of curiosity.

[denkimi]

This is beyond the role of a forum mod. AshRok has had at least three new accounts and done 1,000 posts in three days. No human should be playing whack-a-mole like this.
It just takes a mod who visits at least every day. Banning those accounts on first reported post will not stop them completely, but will stop the forum from flooding.

[AndyRAC]

Good enough result by Ogier's Richard Mille Racing Team at the 24 hours of Le Mans, finishing in P13 (9th in class).
Ogier's best lap was 1,7 seconds slower than Milesi's and 0,5 seconds faster than Liloux's.
Dirtfish is hyping Ogier's result in the article, but in my opinion he's doing decent, nothing special even for a rookie. Especially when we consider he was in talk with Toyota for a works seat with them in WEC, there are way faster drivers. For example, Vanthoor and Bortolotti, two of the fastest GT drivers around, were quite faster than Milesi in their first prototype race.
Then again, sometimes a slower driver gets carried by 2 faster ones, so it's not impossible that Toyota WEC team will sign Ogier.

https://dirtfish.com/road-racing/ogiers-first-le-mans-how-did-he-do/

I'm afraid Dirtfish are proving they know very little about racing; he was just about average to be honest. We know he has far less experience, but needs to improve a lot more. Fortunately, he has more races to get up to speed. - and at the end of the season we'll know a lot more. It's all about seat time.

[WRCStan]

It just takes a mod who visits at least every day. Banning those accounts on first reported post will not stop them completely, but will stop the forum from flooding.

One can also cut the lawn with scissors.

[AndyRAC]

https://twitter.com/dhhracing/status/1536290599883591680

LMP2 driver lap times.

[EstWRC]

Which car did he drive? and with who did he share the car? Asking out of curiosity.

Hardpoint Motorsport and Porsche 911 RSR-19, the other drivers were Andrew Haryanto and Alessio Picariello

[mknight]

In some of the material from the new Fabia Rally2 premiere it is specifically mentioned that the new screen (behind the wheel) can play videos.

Most likely so they can play onboards on that instead of tiny phone screens like they mostly do now.

What's next in 5 or so years?

- map/gps on the screen (kick co-driver?). Well I do this in a roadcar when driving on an unknown road, but then again we also use automatic gearbox while they don't....

- How about watching the onboard and learning to turn-in at the correct time by using the steeringwheel-input compared with some calculated "perfect" trajectory?


Sci-fi? Well 5 years ago you had people here claiming how drivers can never learn all corners of a stage. Now it's basically standard.

[Rallyper]

In nordic offshore racing, 15 -20 years ago you had to use your brain and paper charts. Nowadays (well, since 10 + years) they all use GPS in the archipelago , which make an ape could be navigator.
Let´s hope we don´t see that in world rallying... :) :)

[WRCStan]

GPS is no good for pacenotes and won't help you change a wheel or help manage your rally. I don't really care if it's used on road sections, can use a phone anyway. Besides, if they rule out ABS, traction control etc as driver aids they could do the same with gps.

A screen is nothing new and just as cheap as any other dash and dials but with possibilities. Tough if they have time in a rally to sit and study onboards, something is wrong with the itinerary.

[drive]

has anyone ordered from this online shop? some stuff looks way better then from official wrc shop :)
https://www.gifnests.com/collections/world-rally-championship

[DoN_cz]

Good find! To be honest, the official WRC merchandise has gone very downhill (design wise). Atleast from what I could see in their official shop in Sardegna service park. I suppose they changed their supplier/designer few years ago... The things they offered 5-10 years ago were way more interesting and eye catching. Nowadays it's just clueless.

[lmmjvss]

haha it amazes me how bad "motorsport" merch always is. I prefer the simple ones, like
https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.3205730012.9106/ssrco,slim_fit_t_shirt,mens,fafafa:ca443f4786,fron t,square_product,600x600.jpg

[MartijnS]

Shipping costs in the official shop are too big for me.
Cap of 25 euro, shipping costs 10 euro..so no cap haha.

[wyler]

Italian science youtuber talking abouy rally (powered by ford)

120k views in 24h

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxdcWkFZKUU

[focus206]

In an interview on leaving the Richard Mille Racing WEC Team, Ogier said that it was never his intention to contest the full WEC season (6 races) and it was time to dedicate himself to his family.
Yet, at Le Mans 24h he was saying that Toyota's decision on letting him drive the factory hypercar next season was imminent. Hard not to believe he decided to quit this WEC season after a probable "no" from Toyota.

[AnttiL]

How about just keep the current petrol only cars for the stages and then tow or trailer the rally cars with an electric or hybrid car/ suv or pick up ute through the villages between stages.

No.

[WRCStan]

Five countries seek to delay EU fossil fuel car phase-out: https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/five-countries-seek-delay-eu-fossil-fuel-car-phase-out-document-2022-06-24/

Don't know where best to post this, could be relevant to many threads including R5/Rally2 thread in ERC room. The pushback against the green agenda could be something to watch over the coming months and years. Even if it isn't totally killed off, the counter-measures, delays and indecision could affect manufacturers, models and rulemakers in rally.

[skarderud]

If Hyundai quit Rally1 in the next years, then Rally2 has to be the main class.
Its much better to have a field of 5-6 brands and some semi-privateer teams than 2 teams with 3-4 cars.

Just hypotetical, i hope.
Stellantis will join next era of cars, much better with 4 factoryteams:)

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[AnttiL]

If Hyundai quit Rally1 in the next years, then Rally2 has to be the main class.
Its much better to have a field of 5-6 brands and some semi-privateer teams than 2 teams with 3-4 cars.

Just hypotetical, i hope.
Stellantis will join next era of cars, much better with 4 factoryteams:)

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

Who would then pay the driver salaries? Would Hyundai continue with Rally2? Would Skoda be unbeatable? Would Toyota be in the series anymore?

[skarderud]

Who would then pay the driver salaries? Would Hyundai continue with Rally2? Would Skoda be unbeatable? Would Toyota be in the series anymore?Same as today, i presume.
Who pays Mikkelsen, probably not toksport.

More cars, bigger field.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Rallyper]

Same as today, i presume.
Who pays Mikkelsen, probably not toksport.

More cars, bigger field.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

Yes. An open mind to to new solutions is always good. Not only pointing out the downsides but also see the possibilities is my way looking at it.

Having said that, there are no garanties what so ever what manufacturers will do if everything changes...

[WRCStan]

More cars, bigger field.

Fallacy. You'd even have to find 4-5 crews to replace the lost Rally1 star drivers to break even.

[skarderud]

Fallacy. You'd even have to find 4-5 crews to replace the lost Rally1 star drivers to break even.What?
Dont understand your argument.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[WRCStan]

What?
Dont understand your argument.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

I mean there's no plausible argument that there'd be an increase in entrants. It makes sense in simple logic only. Maybe on European rounds there are a handful more local privateers, but there'd be no championship left at all for even new entrants to enter.

WRC has to go to minimum 3 continents and current Rally1 manufs have to do every round. Which privateers do you see obliging this and/or what would have to change? Nobody would be doing ~12, few even do the 6 in WRC2 or the 8 in ERC now. So I think it's a bad belief unless you dream of a second ERC where you can call the champion the best in the world.

As for my points on the current crop:

M-Sport would lose Ford support if the hybrid Puma went, so wouldn't be supporting drivers. Breen and Loeb go, Fourmaux, Greensmith and Loubet might still play. As Fiesta R5 and Rally2 homologs are up in 2024 and 26, need a new car anyway, but one that will either sell in the hundreds or please Ford to maintain an M-Sport entry.

Toyota have no Rally2 car because they're in it for the branding, not a customer outlet. Rally2 just isn't a TV sport. Evans and Ogier go, K-Rov and Lappi might occasionally play elsewhere. Worst case for your point is they build a Rally2 and keep these drivers, serious privateer opposition teams stand no 'investable' chance at the championships just like now so they don't enter.

Hyundai IMO are only even in Rally1 still because of contract obligations. They're going. They already privatised their WRC2 doings, so zero sum. Few privateer Hyundai entries as is. Neuville goes, Tanak might occasionally play and Solberg too.

Skoda, the only remaining Rally2 manufacturer developing a car but who aren't even willing to pay the current WRC2 registration fees might be tempted back, but then you'd lose Toksport - zero sum. Skoda customers wouldn't be too happy either - nobody could compete up to 2019.

For all this pontificating, it's not going to happen. More likely that Red Bull build their own Rally1 and tweak the rules to fill the Hyundai void, even if looks like a monster, or looks like a Hyundai and is still built in Alzenau.

[240RS]

Something about super rally rules doesn't rub the right way.

A competitor fails to complete half a day and still ends up in the top ten with championship points to boot. Shouldn't there be a rule that makes it virtually impossible for those not completing the entire route easily beating those who do??? Ten minutes per stage ain't enough, clearly.

Also, a competitor winning a category should ideally complete the entire course. Am old school, but that's not the point!!!

[flat_right]

Rules are okay and in a normal rally, they do their work. The problem is that rallying and also travelling to rallies that are far away is expensive and we end up with fewer drivers which results the situation you explained. Normally, even if Rally1 drivers retire, Rally2 drivers will "collect" the points while not being 30 minutes off the leader.

[AndyRAC]

Something about super rally rules doesn't rub the right way.

A competitor fails to complete half a day and still ends up in the top ten with championship points to boot. Shouldn't there be a rule that makes it virtually impossible for those not completing the entire route easily beating those who do??? Ten minutes per stage ain't enough, clearly.

Also, a competitor winning a category should ideally complete the entire course. Am old school, but that's not the point!!!

I've consistently said since Super Rally was introduced that you shouldn't finish ahead of somebody who has done the full event; I compared it to showjumping where any rider with faults finishes behind 'clean' competitors, no matter that their time was faster.

However, we're stuck with the current rules, so it is what it is......

[AnttiL]

Safari is a corner case. The WRC2 entry list was low and everyone except the top three had multi-minute-issues. I bet it's very rare to have someone skip three stages and finish on points in any other rally.

I see that Loeb is pinpointed for finishing ahead of Solberg who completed the route. In addition to driving very slowly, Solberg also had to stop on first Sunday stage and the stage was red flagged for that. He lost 14 minutes on that stage. Without red flag, it could have been also a retirement? And then he lost almost 6 minutes on the penultimate stage. Meanwhile, in the old days' Safari, Loeb could have been serviced on the fly and finished much higher.

For me the rules are fine.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Re the general last day cruising / tyre-saving issue (not Safari)

How about a point for the winner of every stage on the last day and 3-2-1 on the PS ?

[J4MIE]

We got penalties for missing all 6 stages on Saturday (even though we decided to drive the first loop), so an hour was added to our time. We finished 20th overall but luckily not last. I think the penalties are fine.
You’ll always get some situations some people aren’t happy with. SR rules are part of the game, much like the rest of the sport.

[wyler]

Re the general last day cruising / tyre-saving issue (not Safari)

How about a point for the winner of every stage on the last day and 3-2-1 on the PS ?

i'd go with a point for every stage on all days.

[AnttiL]

Re the general last day cruising / tyre-saving issue (not Safari)

How about a point for the winner of every stage on the last day and 3-2-1 on the PS ?

One rally might offer just two stages on Sunday, one rally five. And the length of the stages can vary from 6 km in Wales to 80 km in Mexico.

Also, it makes everything very complicated to explain.

Also, could you score individual stage points although you don't complete the rally?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The only other way would be to make the final day a full day so there would be enough stages to allow sufficient changes in times to affect the leaderboard. But I guess that's not what they want and prefer the cruise then drama for tv...

[WRCStan]

Restarting is not a problem, but there shouldn't be a difference between a crew who retire at the first hurdle and a crew who crash on the last stage - or worse, use retiring at last control as a loophole for longer service or better final stage time. If it's argued that more distance is covered but agreed restarting is not a problem, it's only the rules that push them back to the next leg. Sure J4mie would have accepted restarting immediately (the purpose of OTL not being the point)!

How about scratch+10 for all the leg's stages, not just the ones missed, would reflect better in the standings???

[J4MIE]

One of the rules is that as soon as you’re OTL you get penalties for every stage after that. So even though we had a completely healthy car and we’re keen to drive some mileage, there was no incentive to.

Maybe you should be able to restart at the start of the next section of you wanted to? Would mean less of a penalty.

[AnttiL]

Usually just not enough time to haul the car back to service, let alone fix it.

EDIT: or were you talking about OTL situation? I didn’t even know you can restart after OTL.

[WRCStan]

Maybe you should be able to restart at the start of the next section of you wanted to? Would mean less of a penalty.

I've posed this before and response was that it could encourage potentially dangerous scrambles to recover crashed cars and also puts pressure on officials on tight itineraries. All retirements should be treated equally too IMO.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Top Gear @BBC_TopGear

Feast your eyes on the Ford Puma Hybrid Rally1 :cool:

Watch Chris Harris put it through it’s paces in the snow on this week’s all-new #TopGear. Sunday 8pm on BBC One and BBCiPlayer !

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWgsKHOXEAA0Hwk?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWgsLt8XEAEDVxu?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[Eli]

Top Gear @BBC_TopGear

Feast your eyes on the Ford Puma Hybrid Rally1 :cool:

Watch Chris Harris put it through it’s paces in the snow on this week’s all-new #TopGear. Sunday 8pm on BBC One and BBCiPlayer !

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWgsKHOXEAA0Hwk?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWgsLt8XEAEDVxu?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

I love the fact Chris keeps rallying so close to his heart, wish the people up there in the high places would share his same enthusiasm to it so we wouldn't be deprived of a rally in the UK & Ireland.

[cali]

I love the fact Chris keeps rallying so close to his heart, wish the people up there in the high place would share his same enthusiasm to it so we wouldn't be deprived of a rally in the UK & Ireland.Chris Harris is one of very few top motoring journalists. I like his content a lot

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[EstWRC]

Short clip about the top gear episode coming up https://youtu.be/-NnTWxIPHzA

[lmmjvss]

New suspension for all the ExtremeE trucks! They can push harder from now on. Some will crack eventually, but you can already notice some difference on the sideways moves. Nice! Really into this concept. Qualy 1 is "rally" style, against the clock. Very cool

[lmmjvss]

Tho Im still scared about the day when one of the trucks get on fire and the driver is inside... Safety crew is aaalways so far away from the actual track

[Päss1928]

Just a thought. Why couldn't WRC do 1 stage per rally in full EV mode. It wouldn't bother the fans if it's just 1 stage, but would give the manufacturers a chance to demonstrate their EV capabilities, which could in theory attract more manufacturers. Win-win?

[AnttiL]

Just a thought. Why couldn't WRC do 1 stage per rally in full EV mode. It wouldn't bother the fans if it's just 1 stage, but would give the manufacturers a chance to demonstrate their EV capabilities, which could in theory attract more manufacturers. Win-win?

It would require a huge and heavy battery

[J4MIE]

The currant HIV distance is in single figure kilometres per event. So no chance of even a full road section, never mind a stage.

When it was first announced I had naïvely assumed that all road sections would be done in EV mode. I really don’t see why they seem to have focused on boosting the already huge amount of power the car has, there wasn’t really a need for it. It’s a way of saying the cars are hybrid, environmentally friendly etc but doing the absolute minimum required.

[wyler]

It would require a huge and heavy battery

What about the super special? it's already far from "real" rally and just a showcase for catching people in town. km are few enough, and is normally close to service park... it could become the sponsor-show before the real start of the race...

[Sal yet again]

The currant HIV distance is in single figure kilometres per event. So no chance of even a full road section, never mind a stage.

When it was first announced I had naïvely assumed that all road sections would be done in EV mode. I really don’t see why they seem to have focused on boosting the already huge amount of power the car has, there wasn’t really a need for it. It’s a way of saying the cars are hybrid, environmentally friendly etc but doing the absolute minimum required.

Hyundai did a mock test with so called road sections allegedly using only EV mode? The WRC site/DF waxed lyrical about it. In retrospect its a bit of an own goal and opens the sport to ridicule if its not already there.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/gearing-up-for-hyundais-unique-rally1-test/

[AnttiL]

They only had a short city HEV zone, like current rallies (should) have

[Sal yet again]

True and I think Tanak's words in the follow up said what it really was about...PR

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/what-hyundais-test-told-us-about-the-wrcs-future/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

In the latest series of TopGear, Chris Harris drove the Ford Puma Hybrid Rally1 built by M-Sport.

Join Chris in conversation with TG Magazine’s Jack Rix, where they discuss Ford’s hybrid WRC contender, the current state of rallying, electrification in motorsport, and more...

Video here: https://twitter.com/i/status/1546524721444839424

[WRCStan]

In the latest series of TopGear, Chris Harris drove the Ford Puma Hybrid Rally1 built by M-Sport.

Join Chris in conversation with TG Magazine’s Jack Rix, where they discuss Ford’s hybrid WRC contender, the current state of rallying, electrification in motorsport, and more...

Video here: https://twitter.com/i/status/1546524721444839424

I, or we, couldn't have written a better script for him.

[becher]

https://youtu.be/esNBXqGouI0

This is a quite well made documentary series about rallying. The pronunciation is sometimes off, but at least there are next to no factual mistakes.

[WRCStan]

https://youtu.be/esNBXqGouI0

This is a quite well made documentary series about rallying. The pronunciation is sometimes off, but at least there are next to no factual mistakes.

Two minutes in and I recognise this script - it's lifted from Wikipedia, except Paris to Madrid was not half the distance of Paris to Bordeaux, so this was carelessly copied. Will watch more though thanks.

[becher]

Two minutes in and I recognise this script - it's lifted from Wikipedia, except Paris to Madrid was not half the distance of Paris to Bordeaux, so this was carelessly copied. Will watch more though thanks.

Well its not perfect, but at least he can read a Wikipedia page unlike plenty of others who "try" to make similar content. I mean even big budget stuff like "The Grand Tour" just sprouted bs about rallying that anyone with internet access could have looked up within 5 minutes.

[Sal yet again]

https://www.eifel-rallye-festival.de/de/nennliste_reader/neuville-thierry-peugeot-306-maxi.html

Neuville to drive a 306 Maxi at the Eifel Rally Festival

[WRCStan]

Well its not perfect, but at least he can read a Wikipedia page unlike plenty of others who "try" to make similar content. I mean even big budget stuff like "The Grand Tour" just sprouted bs about rallying that anyone with internet access could have looked up within 5 minutes.

Or Toyota marketing or wrc.com lol. Give anybody 5 minutes on the internet they will stick to Wikipedia. It's staggering how much bad information there is, and not necessarily by intention. It's the result of having an article written by committee over a 15-20 year period. Facts get eroded and removed from context bit by bit, facts become fctas, become accepted truth, then the lazy Toyotas and wrc.coms become the trusted citations of the new fctas, unless somebody steps up with real effort to really check the entire article, its history and sources, then the same things start to happen again anyway. The whole site is a fascinating experiment of human and social behaviour. It's OK for quenching the thirst for instant answers but must not to be trusted as a source for anything that matters, which is the mistake Toyota and wrc.com made. Aannyway....

[lmmjvss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBV4tNzKFhA

Hyundai and their weird marketing where they pretend they are a huge motorsport brand.
Urgh... you can KNOW whats the next line from the text during the whole clip.
Technology, Future, Electric, Hydrogen, Sustainability, Power.. haha You can literally antecipate the whole text. Ewww

The 74 looks cool tho.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

WRC is getting so predictable now - Toyota's are totally dominant, Hyundai's often unreliable and hard to drive and M-Sport's driver's mostly letting them down with errors.

I'm starting to follow it out of habit more than getting any real excitement in terms of the results.

Fan videos are still great though, showing the speed and skill of the driver's much better than the formulaic WRC+.

[lmmjvss]

WRC is getting so predictable now - Toyota's are totally dominant, Hyundai's often unreliable and hard to drive and M-Sport's driver's mostly letting them down with errors.

I'm starting to follow it out of habit more than getting any real excitement in terms of the results.

Fan videos are still great though, showing the speed and skill of the driver's much better than the formulaic WRC+.

THIS!
May I ask u (and the other fellas if thats the case too) for a longer thought on that? Do u think its just the predictabiliy? Cuz I have been feeling the same....same with MotoGP, BUT the series has never been so unpredictable, u'know? So I dont know "IMO" if the predictability in WRC is the actual reason some may be feeling "tired" of the sport.
Interesting topic, mate

[fiscorpun]

I'm starting to follow it out of habit more than getting any real excitement in terms of the results.


Same =/


THIS!
May I ask u (and the other fellas if thats the case too) for a longer thought on that?

Weirdly, I'd get SO much more excited about WRC as whole if the next months news were something like:
"Subaru to run the 2 Vermont ARA cars in Rally Japan", "Paddon to run his electric car in New Zealand", "ProDrive reportedly buying two '22 Toyotas to run as an independent team in '23 with Williams Engineering support", "EKS to enter 4 Audis in WRC2 for the next 3 rounds", "Peugeot to test a Dakar engine prototype in a 208 in Acropolis"....

Im missing some FRESH things around WRC. Need "new stuff" in some rounds to get me really pumped again. Hybrids were not fresh enough for me hehehe

[cali]

Give me good driving any day and I do not give a s%it what they are driving.

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Give me good driving any day and I do not give a s%it what they are driving.

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

Agreed... and the driving is still great to watch hence why I highlighted the fan videos which really show this way better than WRC+.

90% of WRC+ All Live is an onboard view of the track ahead or the drivers face and that gets pretty boring after a while.

[Sal yet again]

Sad to report the passing of Paddy Hopkirk the legendary Mini driver who's fame spread well beyond his win on the Monte into a successful business career.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motorsport-historic/obituary-rallying-legend-paddy-hopkirk-dies-aged-89

[Rallyper]

One of those drivers I first admired as a seven old boy... Him, Eric Carlsson and Bengt Söderstöm. Bengt also drove BMC Cooper S in1962... think Paddy drove 1962 Midnattssolsrallyt... not sure. In that case I saw him live in his best days.

[AndyRAC]

Sad to report the passing of Paddy Hopkirk the legendary Mini driver who's fame spread well beyond his win on the Monte into a successful business career.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motorsport-historic/obituary-rallying-legend-paddy-hopkirk-dies-aged-89

Winning the Monte - and making headlines, and an appearance on Sunday Night at the Palladium - it doesn't get better or bigger than that. A fabulous all round driver who was pretty handy on the circuits as well.

[Sergiow]

Paul-Henri Cahier
@F1Photo

The wonderful Paddy Hopkirk has passed away. He brilliantly won the 1964 Monte Carlo rally driving a Mini Cooper S.
The picture, taken my Bernard Cahier (my dad) after the event shows: Joan Cahier (my Mom), Jo Bonnier, Graham Hill, Fangio, Paddy Hopkirk, Sir Alec Isigonis. https://twitter.com/F1Photo/status/1550538058017042432?cxt=HHwWgMCj7cGJz4QrAAAA

note: Back row. Unknown; Tony Ambrose, Ron Crellin, either Erle or Don Morley, Alec Issigonis and Henry Liddon. That's Stuart Turner, seated right.

[WRCStan]

Found this early form of scepticism from the Daily Telegraph, November 1959, just before the special stage was introduced.

https://i.imgur.com/3y6isf7.jpg

[mknight]

Seems spot on to me. Special stage with road closed to public was perfect solution.

[lmmjvss]

Two things I was thinking today..
1) does anyone know if Lukyanuk is planning to return to rallying in '23?

2) Im not feeling like Ingram or Kajetan and Gryazin are getting more "RoI" from doing WRC2. Any chances of them going back to ERC?
(I meam, wrc2 is more expensive and the coverage on R5 now is basically bigger in ERC...sure, wrc gets bigger exposure, but is it working? Did Ingram or any of them said something about '23 or so?)

[WRCStan]

Seems spot on to me. Special stage with road closed to public was perfect solution.

Agreed for what we now know and love as rally but some privateers just wanted to tour the country, there were conversations at the time about the direction the rally was taking - that being the year the rally moved to November hoping the weather would provide an attractive driving challenge. I posted that because it doesn't look totally out of place as a forum post - nobody really knew what the future held.

One more evergreen clipping from the Herald Express January 1953. Torquay, Wales, Northern Ireland...

https://i.imgur.com/G7uyVjc.png

[Jarek Z]

2) Im not feeling like Ingram or Kajetan and Gryazin are getting more "RoI" from doing WRC2. Any chances of them going back to ERC?
(I meam, wrc2 is more expensive and the coverage on R5 now is basically bigger in ERC...sure, wrc gets bigger exposure, but is it working? Did Ingram or any of them said something about '23 or so?)

I don't know about Ingram or Gryazin, but if you were Kajto - would you find it motivating to go back to a championship that you already won 3 times?

[lmmjvss]

2309
Dad came to visit me using this shirt haha Out of nothing. I thought its really cool. Never seen this one

[Sal yet again]

General question about rally organisation in your respective countries be it a local level or up to WRC. Are rallies organised by volunteers giving up their free time to arrange road closures and insurance etc or do clubs or motorsport bodies employ people to do the job on a paid basis? Bit of an issue in the UK just now which is seeing events cancelled or stopping altogether as more and more time is being asked of less and less people who do the "job" on a voluntary basis. Not many younger people stepping up to help so rallies are biting the dust. This in turn is leading to even less interest in the media so less and less commercial interest as a result.

[fiscorpun]

In Europe theres the WRC, in "America" they have BAJA.
In Europe theres Rallycross, In America theres Short Course racing with 4wd 900HP super trucks
If someone here doesnt know this thing, check it out this quick clip from last
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVRiJJc7J2E

[WRCStan]

General question about rally organisation in your respective countries be it a local level or up to WRC. Are rallies organised by volunteers giving up their free time to arrange road closures and insurance etc or do clubs or motorsport bodies employ people to do the job on a paid basis? Bit of an issue in the UK just now which is seeing events cancelled or stopping altogether as more and more time is being asked of less and less people who do the "job" on a voluntary basis. Not many younger people stepping up to help so rallies are biting the dust. This in turn is leading to even less interest in the media so less and less commercial interest as a result.

Nobody seeing the business opportunity then?

Please don't blame the young because times have changed.

[J4MIE]

One of the organisers of a closed road event in the UK earlier this year told me that they had put in 800 hours of their own time to get the event running.

That is completely unsustainable.

[WRCStan]

One of the organisers of a closed road event in the UK earlier this year told me that they had put in 800 hours of their own time to get the event running.

That is completely unsustainable.

You don't have to answer this but scale-wise, if it was a music festival, would they be getting paid?

[Steve Boyd]

You don't have to answer this but scale-wise, if it was a music festival, would they be getting paid?
If it was a music festival the spectators would be paying a very significant sum for watching, leaving enough for the promotors and participants to be handsomely paid. Sadly for the organisers and competitors, rallying doesn't work that way.

[AndyRAC]

In the UK at nearly all events, spectators 'pay to park' - and money quite often goes to local charities, etc Organising clubs get virtually nothing. From memory, only RallyGB (and IRC Rally Scotland) charges/charged to spectate; and then that means they have to provide facilities, etc for spectators....which is a costly business. Which is the reason most events charge you to park your car - there aren't the same requirements for spectators. As already said, most events are run by volunteers, and they simply don't have the time/resources to do this.

I agree with Sal, I would love to know how other countries operate....I dare say it's different.

[WRCStan]

I agree with Sal, I would love to know how other countries operate....I dare say it's different.

And any role the state and authority play: in eg. France and Spain, their (democratic) authorities have directives set by the ministry of sport and receive state funding. Does any of that trickle down to support organisers?

[the sniper]

I never really understood why UK organising clubs don't keep the spectator parking money for themselves. Okay, it's not much but it's something.

[Sal yet again]

Nobody seeing the business opportunity then?

Please don't blame the young because times have changed.

Been thinking of some possible ways this could be done as a business for a while, offering a service to motor clubs to do all the applications for road closures etc however you first have to understand the "politics" that surround clubs and the egos that are involved. Its often the same people who are complaining of the amount of time they give up that are most reluctant to cede control of their events to others. Once spoke with a promoter of a major UK Rally championship and he told me that it was like herding cats trying to get 6 event organisers to agree on a standard format!

There would be a cost involved to clubs obviously and without big sponsors I'm not sure how many would be able to afford to "contract out".

Its clear something has to be done otherwise the proposed saviour of UK rallying, i.e closed roads will be dead in the gate before the tape drops.

Regards the average age of organisers, I've seen event after event talk of combined ages of their teams in high 100's. The fact is the motorclub structure just doesnt appeal to younger people and quite often the atmosphere around rallies is very poe faced and lacks "fun". I know that is because of rules and regs, insurance needs etc however it doesnt help get people engaged.

I guess motorsport of the traditional type in general could be on borrowed time on the island however am still interested to know how other countries go around thier business so we can learn from them.

[Jarek Z]

I would like to recommend you a documentary series on Netflix titled "Bad sport" that I saw last week. Especially interesting for us is episode no. 2 - about a hippie and pot dealer, who turns into a famous racing driver. It doesn't have anything to do with rallying, but it's still a great story:
https://www.netflix.com/pl-en/title/81084829

[mknight]

Saw the Renault 5 electric concept "driftcar".

Yet another example of how major manu uses electric "sport" car for promotion. Other recent big ones are the BMW thing with Extreme E base and off course the Electric Quatro from Block

And yet another example of how people claiming here that electric car adds/promotion will only be about driving slowly and using least energy were wrong. Two years ago that was the dominant idea here.

Thing is people don't change. They want to buy things cause they are cool and offer something new. Which is why this kind of advertising works.

[Sal yet again]

Only issue I have with a lot of these electric "concepts" is that the makers are trying to court favour by using iconic ICE models as the base rather than coming up with new designs. As the heart of those cars (the engine) has been ripped out to make way for all the batteries it kind of looses the point, at least Block's new Audi other than having traditional colours isnt trying too hard to be an ur Quattro.

I always thought the future was about the new and expected more "Jetsons" imagineering and space age design rather than the restomod approach. Ironically a lot of older machinery was hardly efficient design wise so it makes me grin that the manufacturers by sticking electric gubbins in these cars seem to be able to conveniently gloss over that!

Have to say love the look of the "5" and as long as my teeth dont have to suffer hearing it in real life would ne more than happy to see it in action on YT with the sound turned off.

[KiwiWRCfan]

Rally Australia 2011 Hayden Paddon finished P6 overall driving a PWRC car. At the time it was the best ever overall finish for a PWRC car.
Is Hayden's P6 in a Rally 2 car last weekend at Rally NZ the best overall result for a Rally 2 car against the current Hybrid WRC cars ?

EDIT - found answer to my own question. Stephane Lefebvre was first rally 2 driver to achieve a P6 overall against the hybrid Rally 1 cars. Stephane did it at Ypres Rally Belgium driving a Citroen C3

[AnttiL]

Rally Australia 2011 Hayden Paddon finished P6 overall driving a PWRC car. At the time it was the best ever overall finish for a PWRC car.
Is Hayden's P6 in a Rally 2 car last weekend at Rally NZ the best overall result for a Rally 2 car against the current Hybrid WRC cars ?

EDIT - found answer to my own question. Stephane Lefebvre was first rally 2 driver to achieve a P6 overall against the hybrid Rally 1 cars. Stephane did it at Ypres Rally Belgium driving a Citroen C3

I think it's a bit silly when the position is not based on the low class driver's speed but the amount of retirements for the top class.

[KiwiWRCfan]

An Irishman and a Kiwi walked into a bar and talked rally.
OK they were not in a bar but they share a passion for rally and they talked a lot about Rally NZ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhl84Z5g9fE

[Sal yet again]

I'd prefer it if they talked about rallying

[Humber]

The young Australians have been the quickest at the FIA Rally Star talent search (Asia Pacific region) event in Chennai, India.

I saw at least one of the Australians had done some pre-event cross-kart training.

https://www.fia.com/news/young-talents-progress-fia-rally-star-asia-pacific-final-india

Taylor Gill from Newcastle, NSW, Aus won the Asia Pacific Rally Star title.

from Facebook "FIA Rally Star Asia-Pacific continental Final winner������
Wow! Honestly Lost for words, bring on next year����
Massive thanks to everyone who got me here!
Thanks to everyone for the messages and support, will catch up when I’m back in Australia
Over and out��
#fiarallystar #bethenextone
FIA
Motorsport Australia
ARC - Motorsport Australia Rally Championship"

[Jarek Z]

Jeez, rally drivers are younger and younger these days. First Rovanpera, then Solberg, and now... 7-year old Niccolo Perico (son of Italian rally driver Alessandro Perico):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-offyRyDH6E

[flat_right]

Different titles for the articles which basically say the same things :D

Dirtfish: EIGHT-TIME WORLD CHAMPION RULES OUT FULL-TIME WRC COMEBACK

WRC.com OGIER: FULL-TIME RETURN NOT OUT OF THE QUESTION

[TypeR]

Ain't a mind-reader, but tell me what you want.. He wants the title(or 2), especially being in the best team/car.
2022' Monte still hurts him big time :D

[Sal yet again]

Interesting watching some of the footage from RallyLegend at the weekend in that the two most spectacular cars were "converted" Rally Cross Audis. Yes they were good drivers there to showboat but they made most everything else look pretty pedestrian.

[lmmjvss]

well... RedBull owner (Dietrich) has passed a few hours ago. RIP
I wonder if tis will affect RedBull as a whole, as someone said here.
I know the redbull's promoter/sporting "arms" are kinda "detached" from the main corporation but still... "Same brand". Havent read anything on that, but the Thai guy was already owner of 51% of the company since always, so maybe nothing changes... At the same time, world economy doesnt look so healthy so "TIMMING" may be an effect more than Dietrich's death?

[bomber21]

From fia.com

“At Spa-Francorchamps in August, Audi announced it was joining the FIA Formula One World Championship from 2026 as a power unit manufacturer. This announcement was an endorsement of the hard work by all stakeholders to develop those Regulations. We also note that Porsche are still in discussions with Formula 1 teams.”

What about WRC dear FIA????!!!!

[AndyRAC]

What about the WRC? Well it's pretty simple.....it doesn't give enough manufacturers the ROI they want; other series do.

[lmmjvss]

What about the WRC? Well it's pretty simple.....it doesn't give enough manufacturers the ROI they want; other series do.

OUCH!!! Duuude. Stop hurting us with truths!!!!!
=[

[NOT]

What about WRC dear FIA????!!!!

why bother with a dead sport ?

[Humber]

Loeb the goat wins the Andalucia Rally, but Nasser wins the World Rally raid title.

Loeb wins Andalucia Rally
https://youtu.be/DxABrNj1ZFQ

[skarderud]

If Tänak goes to Toyota, my guess is that the new topclass/rally1 from 2025 is Rally2 cars.
Its no point having 1,5 team in a world championship.

And, its time to let private tuners have the possibility to homologate new parts, to make those rally2's that is not up there better.
Manufacturers involvement has to end if rally as we know it can survive.

Simple, and sad, as that.

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