Rally Discussion and Bar Talk Thread

[dimviii]

THE MAXIS OF CARLOS SAINZ

Carlos Sainz, the famous Spanish driver, began his career with a Renault 5 TS. Thanks to Bernard Tramont, a former semi-official driver for Alpine and FASA Renault, Renault's subsidiary at Valladolid in Spain, he was quickly able to move up to the Group 4 R5 Turbo (VA 6658 I) and then an R5 TDC (VA 5060 I).
In spring 1985, he naturally took delivery of the Maxi 5 no. 704. The car was not registered straightaway, as it was not yet homologated in Spain. Until April 1986 it was driven with a temporary registration valid for six months, on red plates. Sainz competed in the first part of the 1985 season with his TDC. In June, he made his first outing with the Maxi 5 on the Rally Villa de Llanes, where his main opponent was Bruno Saby, driving a Peugeot T16. They fought hard, right up to the moment when the Spanish driver came off the road, seriously damaging the front of his car. The car was repaired and the second bodyshell, supplied as a kit, was fully assembled so that FASA could finish the 1985 season and start the next with two cars, as Renault Chartres, DIAC and Renault Sport had done, as Landon confirmed. It was a wise decision, as the Maxi was entered in October 1985 in the Rally San Froilán, which again ended in an accident! It was a painful start with the Group B car for the Spanish driver ...
In November, however, for the Rally Valeo Madrid, FASA entered a Maxi with a different temporary registration, 2M 3536P. This confirms that two cars were available, as the car damaged on the San Froilán was registered 2M 2527P and both numbers were valid during the second quarter, i.e. at the same time. Sainz finished third and was runner-up in the 1985 Spanish Rally Championship.
The new season began in February 1986 with the Rally Costa Brava, where the drivers were met with snow! FASA eventually obtained the car's homologation for road use in March and it was allocated the well-known registration number VA 4650 M and the chassis number PT 8220E 00001 (PT for prototype), which can be seen on the Maxi from Lohéac. Renault's chassis number VF1822100F0000704 was thus not used for this exceptional homologation granted by the Spanish authorities.
In 1986, Sainz competed in 15 rallies. On the Rally de Llanes on 1 June 1986, when he was in the lead with VA 4650 M, he skidded coming down the Fito on some worn-out tarmac and ran off the road, just as he had the previous year! He hit a tree trunk hard head-on. The front of the car was completely destroyed. Christian Pouchelon was present and confirmed the story. For Landon it was a miracle that Sainz escaped unhurt!
For the next rally, in the Canary Islands, the second car was used, as can be seen from its temporary registration from the first quarter of 1986, 2M 4747P. It had an air vent on the roof (which was present throughout the season until Group B was banned at the end of the year) and was forced to retire due to engine problems. For the rest of the season, Sainz used the second car (with a new temporary registration valid for six months from July 1986, 2M 5986P) and then the Maxi which had been damaged on the Rally de Llanes and had been rebuilt with a new bodyshell, making its reappearance in August registered VA 4650 M.
The strongest evidence that two Maxis were used came in November, when Sainz competed in three rallies: he drove in turn the car registered on temporary plates, then the car registered as a prototype and finally - for the last event of the season - once again the car on temporary plates, which had been serviced.
It is clear that for the 1986 season two Maxis were used. The Spanish FASA team did not want to incur any problems with the local authorities and therefore used the registration papers corresponding to each of the two cars. As we explained above, that was not always the case for some of the French teams, who used the same registration papers interchangeably for the two cars they had prepared. It seems very likely that the Maxi kept at the Manoir de l'Automobile was the car registered VA 4650 M used for the latter part of the 1986 season. The complete list of Sainz' entries with the Renault 5 Maxi can be consulted in the online version of the auction catalogue.
In 1986, Sainz won four rallies, came second on four occasions and retired six times, again finishing as runner-up in the Spanish Rally Championship.

[dimviii]

AFTER SAINZ

One of Sainz' two Maxis was then assigned to Guillermo Barreras, an official FASA Renault rallycross driver. The Maxi was equipped with a front drive axle to convert it to four-wheel drive ... With the car still registered VA 4650 M, Barreras finished second in the Spanish Gravel Rally Championship in 1988 and fourth in 1989. After restoring the car completely in 2WD configuration and Sainz' colours, he sold it to Olivier Quesnel in July 1990, as can be seen from the correspondence on file.
The second Maxi was sold to Alvarez Santiago in the Canaries, who also converted it to four-wheel drive for use on gravel. It too was restored in 2WD spec, in FASA Renault's colours. It was offered for sale a few years ago and is still in Spain.
The mechanic sent by Patrick Landon to help FASA was Christian Pouchelon, a member of Renault's motorsport team since the 1970s! He shared with us his memories and confirmed some aspects of the history of Sainz' Maxis. In particular, he authenticated this Maxi as the Group B car which he supported for Renault Sport and expressed his conviction that it was the car Sainz used at the end of the 1986 season. We cannot state categorically whether the car from the museum in Lohéac is the one registered as a prototype or on temporary plates, but the fact that the number PR8220E00001 is stamped on its chassis and that the car was sold by Barreras to Quesnel implies that it is in all likelihood the car registered as a prototype as VA 4650 M and not the car only registered on temporary plates.
Photocopies of the Spanish prototype registration document are provided with the car: the prototype chassis number PR 8220E00001 shown on it is the one stamped on the right rear suspension turret of the car from the Manoir de l'Automobile.

DESCRIPTION OF THE CARLOS SAINZ R5 MAXI TURBO FROM THE LOHÉAC MUSEUM

Some specific features may be noted compared with a Group 4 or "Tour de Corse" car:

- Reinforced bodyshell unique to the Maxi with aluminium roof and doors, Kevlar bonnet and wings, specific rear bodywork to improve flow to the large air filter and increase downforce, and eight lights at the front
- SECAN air-to-water intercooler positioned above the gearbox
- Injection of water into the intake manifold (F1 technology)
- Specific type of turbocharger installed to the right of the engine bay, with no waste gate (the valve to release excess pressure), this being located directly on the exhaust manifold (specific to the Maxi)
- Exhaust tailpipe in front of the right rear wheel
- Fuel filler cap in the left wing
- Strengthened magnesium gearbox with specific ratios and limited-slip differential
- Dry-sump lubrication with sump to the right and specific valve timing cover with chain-driven oil pump
- Specific pedal set with dual master cylinders as fitted to single-seat racing cars
- Ventilated brakes all-round with four-piston callipers
- Bilstein shock absorbers, suspension wishbones front and rear and hub carriers, all specific to the Maxi
- 11.5in wheels at the back (TDC: 10in) and 8in at the front (TDC: 7in)
- Cut-out switch specific to the Renault Sport R5 Turbos, exactly as fitted to the works Alpine berlinettes from 1972 to 1976!
- Windscreen wipers with new mechanism by Marchal fitted differently to the other standard or competition R5 Turbos. It should be noted that not all Maxis had this mechanism, but Sainz' car does
- Vent on the roof to supply fresh air to the crew: this appeared on the Rally Islas Canarias after Renault Sport had it approved by the FIA.
Exceptional rally cars, Maxi 5 Turbos rarely come up for sale. This is the official car of Renault Spain and was driven by Carlos Sainz, who, it should not be forgotten, was twice World Rally Champion with Toyota in 1990 and 1992 and runner-up on four occasions ... This impressive looking Group B car was restored by its second driver, Guillermo Barreras, at the end of his career in rallycross in 1989, starting from a bare shell and using original parts from the period. The Renault Sport mechanic Christian Pouchelon has confirmed that the car is in its original specification; it is a spectacular car with which to take part in historic motorsport events. In addition, this car's continuous history is exceptional and rare for a vehicle of this kind (FASA Renault for Sainz, the official Renault driver Barreras, the museum at Lohéac).

[dimviii]

https://www.artcurial.com/sites/default/files/lots-images/2021-01-11-15/4058_10690479_1.jpg


Chassis n°015

- The best result for an RS200 in the World Rally Championship
- Went almost straight from a rally stage to the museum
- Exceptionally well preserved
- Designed by top English engineers
- Ex-Kalle Grundel, ex-Stig Blomqvist

The Ford RS200 is the only car to have been designed from the ground up to compete in Group B, with unique bodywork unlike any production model. Its only fault was that it was introduced too late to play a leading part.
A delay due to the fact that the programme was implemented after the Escort RS1700 Turbo, which was initially intended to fly the flag for the company. After the Escort proved a dead end, Walter Hayes, the head of Ford, brought Stuart Turner back to run the motorsport department in 1983 and develop the car it needed to win. For Turner (who had dreamt up the GT70), it had to have four-wheel drive and a mid-mounted turbocharged engine. After failing to poach Gordon Murray from Brabham (faced with opposition from Bernie Ecclestone), Turner turned to other top-flight engineers. He selected the proposals made by John Wheeler and Tony Southgate (who were known for their work in F1) and turned to Ghia to design the body, insisting that the windscreen should not be set at too steep an angle, to avoid reflections. The car's monocoque structure used cutting-edge solutions and materials, employing fibreglass, carbon, aluminium and honeycomb sections. Logically, the engine was the Cosworth BDT (Belt Drive, T-type) intended for the Escort RS 1700 but enlarged to 1803 cc; this developed 250 bhp in roadgoing trim and up to 450 bhp in rally spec. Although the car's overall layout resembled the Peugeot 205 T16, it differed in terms of the longitudinal installation of the engine and its transmission, with the gearbox at the front and two driveshafts.
In March 1984, the car was presented to Ford's directors, who gave their approval for five prototypes to be built, and then unveiled to the public at the Turin Show in November that year. Although it was initially envisaged that the car would take part in the World Rally Championship from mid-1985, problems in its development delayed work on the project and the start of production of the 200 cars required for homologation, which would only be completed at the end of 1985.
The RS200 eventually made its first appearance in the World Rally Championship in February 1986 on the Swedish Rally, where the local driver Kalle Grundel won several stages and finished third, behind Kankkunen's 205 T16 and Alen's Delta S4. It was a promising start, but the team's joy was short-lived. During the next event, the Rallye de Portugal, Joaquim Santos ran off the road in his RS200 to avoid some reckless spectators and three people lost their lives.
The RS200 was only seen again on two rounds of the Championship: the Acropolis Rally, where Blomqvist and Grundel were in the lead before retiring with transmission problems, and the RAC Rally, where Grundel achieved the best result, finishing fifth.
The end of Group B after the 1986 season brought the RS200's career in rallying to a close before it had the chance to realise its full potential. Before this interruption, Ford had been working on an 'Evolution' model with a 2137 cc engine, the BDT-E, designed by Brian Hart and capable of producing 800 bhp. 20 such cars were built, but none took part in the Championship.
After the ban on Group B, the RS200 enjoyed a new lease of life, notably in Rallycross, where its agile handling worked wonders.

The car for sale

After Grundel's third place on the Swedish Rally (the best result achieved by an RS200 in the WRC), the car we are offering for sale (chassis no. 015, originally registered B200 YOO) took part in 1986 in the Rothmans Circuit of Ireland (where it retired) and the Audi Sport Rally, which it won, driven by Stig Blomqvist.

It was then bought by a Norwegian enthusiast, from whom Olivier Quesnel acquired it, as he explained to us: "I had met the Norwegian driver in Rallycross, where competed with the RS200 Evos in the Glomma Papp team. He had bought Grundel's Swedish Rally car but didn't drive it in competition as it was an older model.
I offered to buy it from him, but at first he refused, and I had to use all my powers of persuasion to convince him! I went to see him in Norway and remember it was snowing when we landed: I thought the plane was going to skid ..."
A document dated 15 September 1989, on Glomma Papp letterhead, confirms the transaction and the price paid. After this, the car was shipped back to France and put on display in the museum.
We have a document drawn up by Graham Robson, the motoring writer and specialist in the model (he was a close friend of Stuart Graham, who involved him in its development from 1983), stating that 148 RS200s survive and listing chassis no. 015 as a left-hand drive works car for the competition.
Its brief career in competition explains this car's exceptional original condition, and it still bears the number 8 from the Swedish Rally, as if it had just left the world of rallying. With the distinction of being the best-placed RS200 in international motorsport, this is one of the finest examples of this impressive yet little known model, developed by the most brilliant engineers of its time, which never had the chance to fulfil its potential. The significance of this opportunity will surely not be lost on enthusiasts.

https://www.artcurial.com/en/lot-1986-ford-rs200-usine-4058-6#popin-active

[AnttiL]

RS200 for me, please :)

[dimviii]

RS200 for me, please :)

cheaper one also according to estimated prices.
really cant understand why is cheaper,as it is at a very good example,without extended rebuilds,and at totally factory spec.

another point is that i cant understand how a museum will offer for sale all these icons.Really strange!

[Mirek]

Here is by the way Václav Pech driving the RS200 from Jiří Jírovec's collection in 2014 Eifel Rally Festival.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPOWVF7wUwI

[Rallyper]

I saw those live in Rally Sweden 1986. It was nice. Remember especially Kalle Grundel in a junction day 1...

[dimviii]

I saw those live in Rally Sweden 1986. It was nice. Remember especially Kalle Grundel in a junction day 1...

i was lucky too to watch these beasts live at various Acropolis editions.

There is a story about a secret McRae test
-------------------------------------------------------------

September 15 was the anniversary of Colin McRae's death. Undisputed idol of crowds, the flying Scot made his aggression and ruthlessness the main peculiarities of him as a driver. When the boy from Lanark got behind the wheel, he threw his heart over the obstacle, and this approach of his allowed him to win a world rally title but also to throw away many occasions with even very bad and dangerous accidents. Most importantly, McRae was able to win the hearts of rally fans.

Today we bring you in this article a story written by an anonymous professional photographer who frequented races and rallies until the end of the 90 '. We recovered this story from an abandoned Forum, a pearl that he deserved to be published and brought to light. McRae himself, at the time Subaru official driver, also starred.

Fasten your seat belts, let's go!

“… In addition to the F1 GPs, I often went to Catalunya for the winter tests; It was on one of these occasions that I was informed by a French photographer friend of mine that Colin McRae the next day would test the new car for the World Rally along some stretches of the Rally des Garrigues, a French race valid for the European disputed between Nimes, where the race direction was, and Montpellier.
I had already taken all the photos I needed of the tests, I notified my editorial staff (say that something important had happened the next day) and I got in the car to reach the presumed test area.
I had served three or four times in that rally so I knew the roads well enough, but it was like looking for a needle in a haystack.
I took a room in a country that I thought was in the most favorable position for the next day's research; I asked if they had seen any assistance vans around, but the answer was no.
I made a plan for the next day including all the PS traits I knew; I had breakfast and left; I realized that it was an almost impossible undertaking, but something told me that I would succeed; I walked around all morning, asking bars or gas stations if they had noticed anything; the answer was always the same: NO.
I was about to lose hope, when in a small street in a town from which one of the PS I knew departed I noticed a "suspicious" van; it was parked, there was no one, but inside there were cards of unequivocal rallying origin.
I began to walk the path of the hypothetical tests and in fact after a few kilometers I found a car across the street that blocked the passage; the tests always took place in this way; a stretch of road with little traffic and without side access was chosen; it was closed using two cars that blocked the passage; every 15, 20 minutes the tests were suspended and the cars that had arrived in the meantime were allowed to pass; all obviously without any permission !!!
I waited a few minutes and they let me pass; so I arrived at the place where they had arranged all the assistance; as soon as they saw me they certainly didn't jump for joy; McRae who was anything but an affable person sent a few accidents and walked away; Grist, the navigator, instead greeted me, but he made it clear that my arrival was not ... very welcome.
He immediately told me that they didn't want "technical" photos; I replied that that was their right, but that it was my right to take pictures while they were testing the car because I was on a road open to traffic and they agreed.
After a few minutes they started shooting again and I photographed; I made three or four passes in both directions, changing position, then suddenly, immediately after the car had passed from where I was, I felt a great braking and a violent impact; McRae had hit an embankment, severely damaging the car.
The mechanics ran to the place by car and when I arrived on foot they lined up preventing me from photographing in a threatening way; someone tried to snatch my camera; Grist intervened, calming them, took me aside and took me to their headquarters.
He offered me a coffee and asked me "please" to avoid posting photos that would make it clear of the accident; in return he gave me some of their technical images that were top secret at the time.
Whenever I met Grist in the following years, he always greeted me with cordiality, McRae never hinted at a greeting (he had never done it elsewhere, not even before this episode). "

PS: if the author recognizes himself in the story, please come forward

https://www.rally.it/2020/10/il-test-segreto-di-mcrae

[dimviii]

Guys i found an amazing Daniel Grataloup interview,that worth to google translate.
Plenty of comments about his relationship with Delecour,and the well known incident about Delecour and Panizzi at 206 wrc era.

Grab a beer/s and start reading. Probably the best interview i ve ever read.

http://www.estautomag.com/index.php/sports/40-rencontres/748-daniel-grataloup-le-sport-est-son-vrai-moteur

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Er9YNv1XYAo5sgN?format=jpg&name=medium

[Rally Power]

PSA and FCA merger was completed last Saturday, with Stellantis official launch. For now the company aim is to keep the existing 14 brands, giving each one of them a chance to rebound. In Lancia case, one can only hope its iconic rally heritage won't be forgotten. https://motor1.com/news/467272/lancia-to-become-premium-brand/

[Katvala]

New lineup for 2022

(i did not make this) 2029

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

[Sulland]

PSA and FCA merger was completed last Saturday, with Stellantis official launch. For now the company aim is to keep the existing 14 brands, giving each one of them a chance to rebound. In Lancia case, one can only hope its iconic rally heritage won't be forgotten. https://motor1.com/news/467272/lancia-to-become-premium-brand/

Mergers in the international business world gives us Fewer and fewer car companies and by that fewer possibilities for manufacturers to get approval to go rallying at the top level.

And with many things happening simultaneus, it is not easy to understand where our favotite sport will be in 5 and 10 years.
What will a top notch rallycar look and feel like in 2030?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

"Rally driver's have balls of steel"..
https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/154698/ocon-wrc-drivers-have-balls-of-steel/

[AnttiL]

"Rally driver's have balls of steel"..
https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/154698/ocon-wrc-drivers-have-balls-of-steel/

...according to F1 driver Esteban Ocon

[Rally Power]

Mergers in the international business world gives us Fewer and fewer car companies and by that fewer possibilities for manufacturers to get approval to go rallying at the top level.

Manus concentration will continue but on the well succeded mergers most car brands are kept and revitalized, many even manage a return to motorsport. Now it's up to the FIA and the promoter to convince them joining the WRC, instead of other series.

Btw, even if only as a privateer, it's worth mentioning that Stellantis CEO Carlos Tavares (former PSA boss and a known petrolhead) was about to enter RMC Historic at the whell of an ex-Munari Stratos (after running classic Peugeot models in previous years).

[Franky]

Think pub is a safe place. With all these mad debates in the last few days, I think I have an idea for the future of WRC. Grab hold of your drink and be ready to go bottoms up.

In order to eliminate all "stupid rules", go for maximum safety and be environmentally friendly, the WRC needs to go fully online competition. Besides eliminating pointless liaisons with all their drama and boredom, it would also eliminate the need for manufacturer involvement and cost of entry would be so low that even all the Joes could take part. And as the "cars" would be on equal footing, only the true talent would shine. Also we'd have all those cool looking cars with the nice liveries. Etc etc.

Written with 0% of seriousness

[Rallyper]

Think pub is a safe place. With all these mad debates in the last few days, I think I have an idea for the future of WRC. Grab hold of your drink and be ready to go bottoms up.

In order to eliminate all "stupid rules", go for maximum safety and be environmentally friendly, the WRC needs to go fully online competition. Besides eliminating pointless liaisons with all their drama and boredom, it would also eliminate the need for manufacturer involvement and cost of entry would be so low that even all the Joes could take part. And as the "cars" would be on equal footing, only the true talent would shine. Also we'd have all those cool looking cars with the nice liveries. Etc etc.

Written with 0% of seriousness

Would be thousands of seconds penalty for cutting, though... :)

[Franky]

Would be thousands of seconds penalty for cutting, though... :)

You'd just place pushes that work like invisible concrete blocks in those places. Far easier to alter the world you control compared to the real world :D

[pantealex]

"R5 should be main class because it´s more equal"

Top 10 overall Monte were seperated by:
1.Ogier
10.Camilli +10.41

Top 10 RC2/Rally2/R5
1.Mikkelsen
10.Burri +13.24
(if we count only WRC2/3 then it´s +16.58)

(Don´t take this too seriously)

[satnav]

Real good show on The stage by stage show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvjqV3MbCSY

[Lancia Stratos]

This is a quite unbelieveable article from Hugh Chambers in Motorsport UK's latest magazine. Most of the ideas he is critical of came from David Richards - his current boss..........

https://www.motorsportuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/revolution-issue-22.pdf

[EstWRC]

what the hell, lol https://twitter.com/nocontext_rally/status/1357672186174136320?s=20

[the sniper]

what the hell, lol https://twitter.com/nocontext_rally/status/1357672186174136320?s=20

Does he not know where it's been...? :D

[dimviii]

luchifumy
@luchifumy

Average speed record in Rally.
Rally Argentina 1983
Stig Blomqvist - Björn Cederberg
189.53km / h, 25min and 48sec of stretch at full speed, 81km of stretch.
Section Fray Luis Beltrán and Valle Azul
And he didn't train it, he ran it with notes from Hannu Mikkola!


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EtfhYoEXYAIO--l?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Allez Andruet]

And he didn't train it, he ran it with notes from Hannu Mikkola!

That stage didn't have too many notes though.

[Mirek]

That average speed has been always suspecious to me. I actually believe more that it had a wrong length in the itinerary than that it was a real average speed.

Those of you who ever played RBR know Frazier Wells stage. On PC simulator the "flight" over this stage means average speed around 150-160 km/h at world record (don't know what the record is now). Even on a computer where stages are generally faster than in reality such average speed looks like far impossible.

[dimviii]

Sergio Limone,father of 037

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIGVoxUH3BQ&feature=youtu.be

[dimviii]

its a post from French forum,(thanks to Calagan72) and i thought that his work to find these statistic worth to have here,and to discuss further
Watch that the most successfull wrc drivers started very late(Loeb,Ogier)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At the same time by making them start the rally barely out of the pram they begin to experience the 3 young people;)

Solberg (19 years old) - 5th season - 45 rallies

Rovanpera (20 years old) - 9th season (: eek:) - 74 rallies

Loubet (23 years old) - 7th season - 55 rallies



Given the track record they have having started so early, it's not surprising that things go quickly, after the rally it's also maturity, management etc ... it's up to everyone to prove themselves in the future (although Rovanpera already seems very solid)



It may only be a coincidence, but we can see that among the very great rally drivers those who started young are not necessarily very good at regularity and race management (and 'a championship):

Latvala (1st world rally in WRC at 18)

McRae (1st world rally in WRC at 20)

Hirvonen (1st world rally in WRC at 22)

Solberg.P (1st world rally in WRC at 23 years old)

Gronholm (1st world rally in WRC at 24 years old)

Neuville (1st world rally in WRC at 24 years old)

Sainz (1st world rally in WRC at 25 years old)

Ogier (1st world rally in WRC at 25 years old)

Loeb (1st world rally in WRC at 27)

[dimviii]

didnt wait that PH sport has so big facilities.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EuCb_ceWgAIuIN1?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EuCcGQoWYA0UVxg?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EuCcGRVXAAADnYE?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EuLfpn0WYAElfgH?format=jpg&name=small

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EuL0FZUWQAAvW2W?format=jpg&name=small

[SubaruNorway]

The story of what happened to Onebet if anyone feels like reading. https://kapital.no/reportasjer/avsloring/2021/02/25/7622518/rallystjernene-martin-prokop-marcus-groenholm-og-mikko-hirvonen-med-flere-varsler-soksmal-mot-morten-ostberg-og-gruender-av-bettingkonsernet-rush-entertainment-group-sondre-sagstuen.?fbclid=IwAR2oMxfbNXYWJlqvDMmVeLsobPrWRQm 8jkOH9uqqWy9HgK7TKrMk_5hC2JE

[MartijnS]

Never heard about it. Interesting.

[the sniper]

The story of what happened to Onebet if anyone feels like reading. https://kapital.no/reportasjer/avsloring/2021/02/25/7622518/rallystjernene-martin-prokop-marcus-groenholm-og-mikko-hirvonen-med-flere-varsler-soksmal-mot-morten-ostberg-og-gruender-av-bettingkonsernet-rush-entertainment-group-sondre-sagstuen.?fbclid=IwAR2oMxfbNXYWJlqvDMmVeLsobPrWRQm 8jkOH9uqqWy9HgK7TKrMk_5hC2JE

Crikey. Ugly business in such a small bubble...

[Co-driven]

The story of what happened to Onebet if anyone feels like reading. https://kapital.no/reportasjer/avsloring/2021/02/25/7622518/rallystjernene-martin-prokop-marcus-groenholm-og-mikko-hirvonen-med-flere-varsler-soksmal-mot-morten-ostberg-og-gruender-av-bettingkonsernet-rush-entertainment-group-sondre-sagstuen.?fbclid=IwAR2oMxfbNXYWJlqvDMmVeLsobPrWRQm 8jkOH9uqqWy9HgK7TKrMk_5hC2JE

I've heard before that there were issues with payments of sponsorship to WRC Promoter and also issues regarding the company itself, but didn't know about this other issues with other WRC drivers.

Funny to see that Grondal is involved in the lawsuit and that recently his wife was travelling and working together with Mads to Monte Carlo.

[SubaruNorway]

I've heard before that there were issues with payments of sponsorship to WRC Promoter and also issues regarding the company itself, but didn't know about this other issues with other WRC drivers.

Funny to see that Grondal is involved in the lawsuit and that recently his wife was travelling and working together with Mads to Monte Carlo.

Note that Mads doesn't really have anything to do with the business side of this and Grøndal has no issues with him, the two business partners to Morten look like they could fit in any mafia movie.
I got my bets win money out, anyone here who didn't?

Shame it didn't work out because it made the rallies more fun, I don't think there are any betting companies that does bets stage by stage?

[NickRally]

I don't think there are any betting companies that does bets stage by stage?

Business opportunity? ;)

[Co-driven]

Note that Mads doesn't really have anything to do with the business side of this and Grøndal has no issues with him, the two business partners to Morten look like they could fit in any mafia movie.


Yes, I understand that but it's still the son of the guys that "took your money"...I think many people wouldn't be so comfortable in that position, but anyway, Mads doesn't have anything to do with it.

[dimviii]

Yes, I understand that but it's still the son of the guys that "took your money"...I think many people wouldn't be so comfortable in that position, but anyway, Mads doesn't have anything to do with it.

so Mads what does he is doing for leaving?

[HarriK]

Any confirmation for sad news that Hannu Mikkola has moved to higher rally arenas today?

Fred Gallagher:
"Hannu Mikkola left us tonight, one of the greatest drivers of all time. Tony, Henri, Juha and I had some great battles with him. RIP."

Rally The Globe

[cali]

Any confirmation for sad news that Hannu Mikkola has moved to higher rally arenas today?What????

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

[Fast Eddie WRC]

RIP Hannu - Rally in Peace

[cali]

Hannu Mikkola Rest In Peace!

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

[M3 Jambo]

One of the all time greats, absolute legend. Condolences to his family. RIP Hannu

[dimviii]

rip Hannu Mikkola,a true legend.

[AnttiL]

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2021/03/02/wrc-calendar-history-i-1973/

I'm doing a series of blog posts to go through the history of WRC seasons through the routes and seasonal calendars, to see what kind of events there has been and how the calendar has evolved throughout the years. The first part looks at the 1973 calendar and its events.

[spark13]

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2021/03/02/wrc-calendar-history-i-1973/

I'm doing a series of blog posts to go through the history of WRC seasons through the routes and seasonal calendars, to see what kind of events there has been and how the calendar has evolved throughout the years. The first part looks at the 1973 calendar and its events.

This is really good stuff. Interesting reading and new point of view on history of rallying. Keep it up!

[Jarek Z]

Wow! After 27 years Inter Milan and Pirelli end their sponsorship deal. If only we had sponsors and deals like that in rallying!
https://www.republicworld.com/sports-news/football-news/inter-milan-and-italian-tire-giants-pirelli-end-27-year-sponsorship-deal-fans-emotional.html

[rp]

Wow! After 27 years Inter Milan and Pirelli end their sponsorship deal. If only we had sponsors and deals like that in rallying!
https://www.republicworld.com/sports-news/football-news/inter-milan-and-italian-tire-giants-pirelli-end-27-year-sponsorship-deal-fans-emotional.html

There was! Neste (Oil) was sponsoring Rally Finland 26 years as title backer and stopped last year. Also Lombard was 18 years with R.A.C. Rally...

[AnttiL]

There was! Neste (Oil) was sponsoring Rally Finland 26 years as title backer and stopped last year. Also Lombard was 18 years with R.A.C. Rally...

And Neste was sponsoring the event before they became title sponsors, you can see their logo on the Finish ramp already in the late 80's.

[rp]

And Neste was sponsoring the event before they became title sponsors, you can see their logo on the Finish ramp already in the late 80's.

That´s true!

[ShiftingGears]

Could almost swear I saw footage of Vatanen's '85 Argentina accident here but I can't find it anywhere on youtube...am I crazy?

[AnttiL]

Could almost swear I saw footage of Vatanen's '85 Argentina accident here but I can't find it anywhere on youtube...am I crazy?

Not sure if you are crazy, but there has never been any footage of that. :) However, there's footage of his crash in Corsica 1985

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLpg7gGqsoE

[ShiftingGears]

Not sure if you are crazy, but there has never been any footage of that. :) However, there's footage of his crash in Corsica 1985

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLpg7gGqsoE

Thanks! What gets me about group B isn't the power of the cars but how long the rallies were.

[AnttiL]

Thanks! What gets me about group B isn't the power of the cars but how long the rallies were.

Be sure to follow my blog, in a few weeks I will get to the part in my WRC calendar history which talks about the group B era rally routes. :)

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2021/03/02/wrc-calendar-history-i-1973/

[Jarek Z]

There was! Neste (Oil) was sponsoring Rally Finland 26 years as title backer and stopped last year. Also Lombard was 18 years with R.A.C. Rally...


And Neste was sponsoring the event before they became title sponsors, you can see their logo on the Finish ramp already in the late 80's.

Of course I remember Neste as the longtime sponsor of Rally Finland, but had no idea that it lasted so long. Thanks for the info!

[Mirek]

Jarek, Barum has been the sponsor of Barum rally for more than half a century ;)

[Jarek Z]

Jesus, of course! How could I forget it?! :)
https://i.stack.imgur.com/jiFfM.jpg

[the sniper]

Terrible clickbait by WRC on their Facebook page, got the world thinking Audi are coming back to the WRC, barely mentioning in their article that it's just a Rally2Kit car (wos that...?) from Ekstrom!

[Jarek Z]

How I hate click baits!

[KiwiWRCfan]

Couple of video clips of Audi S1 AP4 car that has competed in New Zealand Rally Championship since 2018. Car is owned and driven by Dylan Turner. The car has had several podiums in NZRC events. Dylan finished 3rd in Rally Of Auckland in December 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZog0_vT3m0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgyi5ePEze4

[pantealex]

Of course I remember Neste as the longtime sponsor of Rally Finland, but had no idea that it lasted so long. Thanks for the info!

Actually it lasted even longer because there were UNION sponsorship before that and UNION was bought by NESTE.

[Damian Baldi]

RC competición, the same team that build the Toyota Etios and VW Polo R4 here in Argentina, had build two or three Audi A1 Maxi Rally some years ago. Two of those cars are still running.


RC Competicion Audi A1 at the workshop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEbAJnyugNQ

Short review when Javier Castro became 2018 champion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sbt1aFQX58

test in 2019 with the turbo engine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbWFdUhH-Q4


https://i.postimg.cc/htmKNwvf/Audi-A1-MR.jpg

[pantealex]

3-door is older body shape, different chassis than current one which is only available with 5-doors.

[AnttiL]

What was the longest special stage rally in the history of WRC? When did Canada feature in the series? When did a stage feature on two rallies of the same season? When was the longest ever WRC Safari arranged?

Find out here https://itgetsfasternow.com/2021/03/05/wrc-calendar-history-ii-1974-1978/

[scn]

I read the post of Andre Oliveira in the "Audi" thread and I saw that FIA is trying to hold old N and A cars in international rallies by extending their homologation by 8 years. This is the first time this is done and it is an indirect admittance that cheaper cars are needed. I think it is also time to admit that some door must be left open for making new cheaper cars, that are not old like N and A.

I am not talking about the "big" classes, I am talking about the small ones. In 1997 the cost for building the new N1 I participated with was about 20 average wages in my country. Now, the cost for a new Rally5 is about 60 average wages. Surely, Greece had a major economic crisis and it is not the correct place to make comparisons, but the difference is still very big in all European countries. How on earth can we attract young drivers with such costs?

P.S. By the way, the 106 N1 was a hell of a car and getting in a rally with 22 other crews with the same cars was a fantastic experience.

[Rally Hokkaido]

I read the post of Andre Oliveira in the "Audi" thread and I saw that FIA is trying to hold old N and A cars in international rallies by extending their homologation by 8 years. This is the first time this is done and it is an indirect admittance that cheaper cars are needed.

Actually, this was done from 2019. The list of homologated cars is from that year. I agree with the rest of your post.

[scn]

Actually, this was done from 2019. The list of homologated cars is from that year. I agree with the rest of your post.

Thank you for the info.
I just read in a newer post that from now on in Rally5 there is freedom to use parts from private developers. This is good news, although the regulation still leads to high costs. But it is the first door to some cheaper solutions, if a car with sequential gearbox can ever be called cheap.

[AnttiL]

I am not talking about the "big" classes, I am talking about the small ones. In 1997 the cost for building the new N1 I participated with was about 20 average wages in my country. Now, the cost for a new Rally5 is about 60 average wages. Surely, Greece had a major economic crisis and it is not the correct place to make comparisons, but the difference is still very big in all European countries. How on earth can we attract young drivers with such costs?

To do some hobby rallying, you don't need to buy a new Rally5 car. There are many cheaper alternatives on national levels, and in most cases older cars can be used as well. Also, second hand cars exist, for example here you can get a secondhand Rally5 for 9900 euros

https://racemarket.net/rally/rally-cars-for-sale/r1

[Rallyper]

In Sweden we have group E and F, cars older than 12 years, floating age.
Gr E: >15kg/kW, typical car Astra 1,6, Golf GT 1,8 (1986) Golf III
Gr F: >12kg/kW Volvo 940, Golf GTI, etz.

Strict rules. No changes in engine and gearbox. All safety devices needed like rollcage, seats, belts etz..
Used cars for sale from 2500 Euros (25000 SEK) in Sweden. Almost as fun to drive in rallies... :)

[AnttiL]

In Finland we have also these V1600 cars which are very close to stock cars and very cheap to run. Maybe pantealex or someone else can explain them better.

[Mirek]

Almost 50 Rally5 cars enterd for Rallye le Touquet tell me that there is something right about them.

[Sulland]

Impressive with 50 Clios, and we have alsready seen that the Rally5 version is very quick, compared to old R1's.

Is there some discount or compensation for members of the french Clio trophy?

[SubaruNorway]

Petter just joined Sohlberg on twitch
https://www.twitch.tv/officialkristiansohlberg

[the sniper]

Petter just joined Sohlberg on twitch
https://www.twitch.tv/officialkristiansohlberg

Some great stories so far, surprised I hadn't heard them before.

[denkimi]

Almost 50 Rally5 cars enterd for Rallye le Touquet tell me that there is something right about them.
Lots of promotion by renault i assume.

But they seem to hit the right spot. Not too very expensive to buy and run, but fast enough to actually feel like rallying.

They are kinda what the clio2 group N and A were/are. In france many of those are still around, and i suspect lots of those drivers might switch to a new r5.

[dupanton]

Clio Trophy has very nice prices.

Everybody gets 2 tyres every rally, after 3 rallies you get €1000.

1st place in a rally gets you €5500 (some cash, some spare parts), €900 extra for 1st Junior.
1st in het championship gets you €5000 spare parts + 10 tyres. 1st Junior at the end of the season gets a program with Renault Sport in the Rally4.
1st team gets to run that program with the Rally4.
There are is a trophy for Gentlemen drivers as well. Female crews can enter the Trophy for free.

There is free catering, spare parts service, engineer at every rallye...

So in total, this is just a very good championship. The car isn't cheap, but a lot cheaper than any other new manufacturer car.


Full info: https://www.cliorally.com/IMG/pdf/2021_clio_trophy_france_guidelines_en.pdf

[lmmjvss]

BAR TALK: ON
- Do you think "Im ruinning WRC"? (Sorry for the long post)

I got into WRC in 2014/15 because of Rallycross. But I have been following the championship by watching the dialy highlights from WRC+ or RedBullTV. Sometimes I watch one live stage but thats it.
But I've been thinking that this is probably terrible for the series... dont you think?

I mean, what is the % of fans watching lots of live stages on WRC+ vs fans like me that watch only the 3 day highlights? If most of the fans around the world just watch the three 25min highlights, what would be the point for WRC? I mean... why to have multi-million buck programs and cars if a huge % of fans are only watching 25+25+25min of the whole events?

- I was thinking this because indycar and nascar are thinking about having a "netflix show", like F1 does.
But IMO thats so bad for motorsports. I work at a bar and everyday someone talks about racing and I say that "im a racing fan"... Then these young people say "Oh, Im a F1 fan". But when we chat, I always realize that they only watch F1's netflix show, the "funny radio" highlights and those "WTF1" youtubers talking about the race (but actually they focus on the gossip. Like "oh Max was so angry at Lewis" or whatever).
Basically the current F1 fan DONT WATCH the race, only these Gossip Focused things. So then theres the question: Why are F1 teams wasting half billion bucks in their programs if fans only watch the gossip and the highlights?

It looks "the future of motorsport" is not electric or hybrid (Cuz I honestly dont fall for "road relevance" in motorsports. Thats only P.R... and racing is just money laundry for big companies). The future of motorsport is 20min of gossip about drivers angry at each other, highlighs of the younger drivers talking sh**t on twitch and 5 min of actual race highlights... So, whats the point?

I understand that this is how we consume media right now. You guys are probably scanning this post searching for something usefull for you.. I know that. Cuz this is how we consume media right now. People (even more for youngsters) just want some quick dopamine rush or we lose our attention. This is what social media has done to us... even if you dont use it, like myself (only foruns).

So... what is "the future of motorsport"? Are we ruinning everything? Do you even think about this? haha
(again, sorry for this long randon thougth. Baah)
Cheers

[the sniper]

Something I've found rather depressing is that rallying would actually work in a documentary kind of format, like the F1 Netflix show, where the story of a rally could be properly told. The rally films of the 70s and 80s are what made rallying. Rather than the formulaic world feed style, soulless, cut and paste 25m highlights package that defined the ISC/North One era, something far more original could be created given more time. Taking the UK for example, if the general public has no idea when a WRC round actually was, would it matter if a 'film' telling the story of the rally was shown the following week on a late Saturday afternoon on BBC2 (terrestrial channel)? Anyone drawn into the sport by those could then go on to follow the rallies live on premium sports channels/WRC+ All Live. You can narrate a film in different languages.

Obviously, turning around a film/documentary in a week would be a challenge and compromises would have to be made, but can we honestly say the 'as live' highlights are the best expression of this sport? I appreciate the Red Bull highlights with Mike Chen were better than the standard format ones though, but how many people watch Red Bull TV?

[NickRally]

Coincidentally, Save Lancia put this old film on their fb page this week:

https://www.facebook.com/savelancia/videos/180092713685626

Remember watching this 30 years ago.

[EstWRC]

lets sing with the Hyundai guys cause weekend is head https://www.instagram.com/p/CMT7YM4n8L3/

[AnttiL]

I work at a bar and everyday someone talks about racing and I say that "im a racing fan"... Then these young people say "Oh, Im a F1 fan". But when we chat, I always realize that they only watch F1's netflix show, the "funny radio" highlights and those "WTF1" youtubers talking about the race (but actually they focus on the gossip. Like "oh Max was so angry at Lewis" or whatever).
Basically the current F1 fan DONT WATCH the race, only these Gossip Focused things. So then theres the question: Why are F1 teams wasting half billion bucks in their programs if fans only watch the gossip and the highlights?



To me it seems F1 has always had more friction between the drivers. Rally drivers have always been friends with each other outside the stages, having dinners together, practicing together (when practice was more free to arrange) outside team borders. I think it has to do with them not having to race against each other directly, with overtakings and possible collisions (remember the things Senna and Prost were involved in). In a way, the friction also creates drama, which is probably only beneficial for F1.

[denkimi]

Rally drivers spend a lot more time together. In f1 they are with their own team all day, and only meet at the track or during driver meetings.

In rally drivers spend a lot of their day together. Waiting to start a stage, waiting in regroup, waiting for service.
Especially the wrc drivers, who are always starting close to each other.

[AnttiL]

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2021/03/12/wrc-calendar-history-iii-1979-1986/

The third part of my WRC Calendar History focuses on the early years of drivers championship and the Group B era. When did WRC Rally New Zealand take place on the South island? When did Swedish Rally start from Stockholm? When did Argentina have snow on the route? Find out here.

[AnttiL]

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2021/03/19/wrc-calendar-history-iv-1987-1988/

In 1987 rallies were made shorter and slower, with more breaks. In 1988 all rallies had to arrange a super special. Even Monte, Corsica and Safari.

[EstWRC]

if you miss rally at the moment and want to see something, 24h of clips https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxnPezvf6UE

[Rallyper]

A lot of RWD Volvos on swedish clips. Just search for swedish rallying...

[the sniper]

Why is Subaru America so successful? Lesbians and Rally fans... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89rGdJVDiOM

If nothing else, this video highlights how highly the American division values rallying. This in a country where rallying is a very niche sport. It's almost incomprehensible that by comparison, almost everywhere else in the world where rallying is more popular, Subaru acts like it is ashamed of its rallying past. Funny enough, Subaru of America is the part of the business keeping the entire company afloat...

[AnttiL]

What was the first twin-car super special in WRC? When did Rally Argentina return to Tucuman? What was the last year Ivory Coast was a part of the WRC calendar? When did the RAC Rally allow reconnaissance for the whole route? Find out here.

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2021/03/19/wrc-calendar-history-v-1989-1993/

[the sniper]

I wouldn't normally post this, but just out of curiosity, what do people in this section make of NASCAR's gravel oval race? Almost unbelievable... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noMeyPDW_5w

The gravel isn't being cleared, as it appears, the gravel is getting rubbered in!

[Gregor-y]

It's a neat idea but the way NASCAR races are run these days with pauses killed the interest I used to have watching those cars trying to manage Watkins Glen. There are lots of small dirt tracks all over the US much like rallycross circuits in Europe and they're lots of fun. Combine it with a county fair and you have beer, animals, crops, a few races and a concert by an 80s hair metal band or a cover group and it's a great night.

[HKSjbg]

Correct me if I’m wrong but it looks more like the dirt is being worn down to the tarmac underneath, rather than ‘rubbered in’

[the sniper]

Correct me if I’m wrong but it looks more like the dirt is being worn down to the tarmac underneath, rather than ‘rubbered in’

That's what I thought, but all the comments, including in commentary, say that's what it is. I was sceptical too though.

EDIT: You can see it in these photos: https://twitter.com/BMSupdates/status/1375555308639113224

[SPKen]

Does the best Japanese driver in the WRC, have the potential to become a future champion?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-seNPPO5L_A

[Gregor-y]

Of course NASCAR at its roots is closer to rallying than anything else:
https://www.facebook.com/RallyUSA/videos/255153486244713

[dimviii]

Active suspension, or how to make the aero of a rally car more efficient

https://www.wrcwings.tech/2021/03/30/active-suspension-or-how-to-make-the-aero-of-a-rally-car-more-efficient/

[AnttiL]

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2021/04/02/wrc-calendar-history-vi-1994-1996/

From 1994 to 1996 all WRC events had to take a year off to host only the 2-litre World Cup. In addition, servicing was taken to service parks. In the middle of this all, Rally Indonesia joined in as the first Asian event.

[SubaruNorway]

I put together a drone video from last summer's vacation in Norway, some nice driving roads in here also if anyone needs some inspiration for a travel destinations :)

https://youtu.be/65Ah6KjP5Lw

[dimviii]

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2021/wrc/review--the-world-rally-guide/

[dimviii]

derekdauncey
1993 - Mitsubishi Ralliart Europe 10 x main service vans. No central service back then. On top of these 10 vans you need to add. 6 x Tire / wheel trucks each carrying 250 built units. 1 x Spares parts truck, 2 X Recce service vans, 2 x Pejero/Shogun chase cars, 3 Mechanic Shogun’s, 3 Supervision Shogun’s, 2 x Gravel cars checking the pace notes, 2
Motorhomes and a light aircraft used as a relay/repeater station to keep everyone in contact with each other. Remember all the above drove or transferred to the Rallies on car transporters. #busytimes #greatteamgreatpeople

click for photo
https://www.instagram.com/p/B2PvVltlJGh/?igshid=1es6umqeshogu

[lmmjvss]

Thoughts on that new extreme-e series?

I tried to watch but its not for me. Its more like a talk show about climate change than an actual racing championship. One hour of bla bla bla and only 10 minutes of racing. Meh. Almost like RedBull's WRC highlight program. I want racing, not bla bla bla... but maybe this is how people consume racing now. Meh

Also Way too dangerous to have multiple cars racing on that amount of dust... Next round is on sand too. They are planning to use just time-trial format ( https://inside-electric.com/2021/04/extreme-e-will-consider-time-trials-changes-for-dust-in-senegal-agag/ )... I bet the race on Ice will have some visibility problems too without proper track preparation (RedBull Frozen Rush for reference)... and then the rain forest race will also have some dust from the natural soil.

The races were decided on the "first corner" - which no one could see shit on the broadcast. We missed the two Kristoffersson's decisive overtakes for the win in the semi (on Loeb and Sainz)and in the finale (on Hansen). IDK why they havent thought that when deciding where to put the cameras.
Some big crashes from Matthias ekstrom's team... and the American squad. Kyle Leducc is such an amazing Pro4 driver but its like... Of Course he would be the one crashing out. Its like Ken Block. Maybe its an American thing.. IDK.

Anyway...Im still interested in seeing how the electric class in Dakar will looks but extreme-e is just Not for me. All the luck for them. GoKristoffersson. Bye!

[dimviii]

same impressions from me too.Also very dangerous as you mentioned.

[focus206]

I followed the semi-finals live on Youtube. I mean, it's more or less how I expected it, I would have been surprised to see more than a couple of overtakes. There was a live chat and you could see all the F1 fans kids complaining and being confused on why the big gaps between the cars and why no overtakes, because of course they only ever followed F1 and have no clue about rallying, rallycross and rally raid... and they could only talk of Rosberg vs Hamilton, as if they were the ones actually driving their teams' cars. Some people even thought that Carlos Sainz was the F1 driver Carlos Jr :D
And I feel Extreme E was made also to appeal these fans... I was surprised about how dangerous it looked, I thought they were going to build some sort of rallycross track, but I guess that goes against the environmental impact. In my opinion, it should have either a rallycross format (so they'd need to create some safer short tracks) or a rally/time trial spirit, which would certainly appeal less to the average F1 fan that they want. Like this it feels like some old arcade videogame, but real life is different...

[NickRally]

I put together a drone video from last summer's vacation in Norway, some nice driving roads in here also if anyone needs some inspiration for a travel destinations :)

https://youtu.be/65Ah6KjP5Lw

Magnificent, cheers SubaruNorway!
Couple of years ago, went on a driving holiday from the UK to Bergen, then Flam, then back to the UK - exceptional roads and sceneries. Would like to one day return and follow the coastal road beyond Bergen, all the way north.

[Gregor-y]

I took a two week driving holiday in 2015. It's worth the time. The inland mountains are really vacant and great for hiking. The coast and fjords from Trondheim down to Bergen hits all the main tourist points. I only wish I'd had added a full day in Oslo. All I managed there was the Viking Museum.

[Jarek Z]

Thoughts on that new extreme-e series?

We coincidentally saw some footage during a family dinner on Easter. We didn't see any multiple cars racing together, it looked more like a time trial competition. Some comments from my family:

My brother (a rally fan):
- Jeez, how boring it is!

My brother's wife (not a rally fan, but saw some rallies with my brother):
- Is there really no engine sound or are you making fun of me?
- Is this really the future of motorsport?
- Boring, but I like those mountains on the desert! (https://www.extreme-e.com/images/m2126_crop169006_2050x1153_1593415682DA73.jpg)

My brother's 8-year old son (likes cars and I think he saw 1 or 2 rallies in his life):
- Why do all the cars look the same?

Just our 2 cents ;)

[AndyRAC]

I'm not totally sold on it, it needs a few tweaks here and there to improve it. However, they've got the promotion well and truly sorted. Big names of motorsport, Free to air coverage on YouTube, many TV channels, all over social media, etc

And tellingly, social media, and car/motorsport website/forums had plenty of comments/interaction - and far more than you'd get for a WRC round. There were also articles on BBC Sport, and the Guardian sport website; something which WRC struggles to do. Whether it stays like that is another matter - but it makes you wonder just what RBMH/ WRC Promoter are actually doing with their promotion.

[Mirek]

I may be ignorant to social media but I personally haven't realized that something went on before reading it in this topic.

[dimviii]

“They had a very, very good car but the team was not working 100% with me,” Auriol explains.

“On Tarmac, it was OK but still I need to fight with the team to set up my car [as I wanted], just to accept my decisions. I want this, I want that – no, they say! You put this on your car, you put this, and I say no. I never drive like that.

“I developed all my cars until ’86; [between] all my cars I have won every rally in the world, and Lancia, and Toyota, and you ask me to do something where I don’t choose [what goes on] my car? So I was a little bit fighting all the season with the team. It’s why I stopped.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/why-auriols-final-shot-at-glory-didnt-pan-out/

[NickRally]

A bit split on Extreme E - spectacular backdrops (future ones may differ), very intense starts, but then a bit of a procession, plenty of media attention, though as AndyRAC pointed out we don't know how long that would continue. Naturally, as a design engineer, I am not a fan of single make series, and obviously competition would have led to a faster rate of technology development, but such scenario is more challenging from budgets point of view. It will be interesting how the Dakar gets on with the new technologies class, it is certainly more appealing to me. Back to Extreme E, I am not entirely sure how the dust slipped their attention and what their expectations were when they set up the series, as visibility was always going to be an issue racing in the sand. Anyway, they are now talking about time trials and from my point of view something like the Isle of Man TT type would work best, with min gaps just to ensure the dust settles. It would also mean the drivers can't afford to relax till the finish, rather than settle for the position they are in knowing they can't overtake/be overtaken. Constant on screen time info is vital to keep spectators informed.

[dimviii]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/end-of-an-era-ari-vatanens-tribute-to-sutton-and-mikkola/

[SubaruNorway]

Magnificent, cheers SubaruNorway!
Couple of years ago, went on a driving holiday from the UK to Bergen, then Flam, then back to the UK - exceptional roads and sceneries. Would like to one day return and follow the coastal road beyond Bergen, all the way north.

Thank you! Yeah you really could hold a Norwegian Monte Carlo around there, Rally Sokndal south of Stavanger has had some cool roads.
Lofoten area is next on my list i think! Had some GPS connection issues with the drone on the trip now and then so didn't get to follow the Flåm train for very long
(Drone stopped after 30m)

[NickRally]

Thank you! Yeah you really could hold a Norwegian Monte Carlo around there, Rally Sokndal south of Stavanger has had some cool roads.
Lofoten area is next on my list i think! Had some GPS connection issues with the drone on the trip now and then so didn't get to follow the Flåm train for very long
(Drone stopped after 30m)

Yes, truly spectacular locations there.

[dimviii]

early days for Breen
https://twitter.com/OfficialWRC/status/1380982785519841281

[Jarek Z]

Have you ever dreamed of becoming a rally mechanic? It will be possible at home soon :)
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1588090/Rally_Mechanic_Simulator/

[lmmjvss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zEPp0NECDg

WRC10 (game) will have more historical cars. I've never played these WRC games so IDK if they always have historical cars.
But Its crazy to think that WRC kinda "survives on its history". Its worrying in some aspects IMO but at this point I have no idea what WRC could do to be more relevant in nowaday's motorsport.

[AndyRAC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zEPp0NECDg

Its worrying in some aspects IMO but at this point I have no idea what WRC could do to be more relevant in nowaday's motorsport.

As I've said many times, the WRC should/could be the most relevant of all motorsports - it takes place on 'real roads' not circuits.....but for some reason it's not like that in reality. That's for the stakeholders to solve......

[lmmjvss]

Talking about 'relevance'... FINALLY I found someone on youtube doing these "modern videos" about WRC like F1 fan pages have been doing over the last 3 years... and its working preeetty well for them, we gotta admit.
Its the way people consume media today so we gotta embrace this type of thing in order to see WRC growing more to the nowadays public's eyes! Hope his channel grows and more people start to do videos and clips like this. Its the only way

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9FneXVz9Bc

[Rallyper]

Talking about 'relevance'... FINALLY I found someone on youtube doing these "modern videos" about WRC like F1 fan pages have been doing over the last 3 years... and its working preeetty well for them, we gotta admit.
Its the way people consume media today so we gotta embrace this type of thing in order to see WRC growing more to the nowadays public's eyes! Hope his channel grows and more people start to do videos and clips like this. Its the only way

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9FneXVz9Bc

Who is the guy producing this amazing vids?

[AnttiL]

Ken Järveoja and Gustav Kruuda.

They are good videos. However, there has been small factual errors. Also expression of opinion through cherry-picking of facts, for example with Katsuta they seemed to give a little more positive image than I would, like for example frequent crashes were not mentioned. Another concern is that they use footage from other sources, which could lead in the videos taken down or the channel being banned.

[Rallyper]

Ken Järveoja and Gustav Kruuda.

They are good videos. However, there has been small factual errors. Also expression of opinion through cherry-picking of facts, for example with Katsuta they seemed to give a little more positive image than I would, like for example frequent crashes were not mentioned. Another concern is that they use footage from other sources, which could lead in the videos taken down or the channel being banned.

There´s always room for improvement. But the format (?) is good I think, too.

[lmmjvss]

True!
But it is so good to see people having positive reactions about this channel on the comments and on twitter/fb. Hope it attracts more eyeballs to the sport - even if its only for the "youtube drama" haha F1 did it. Its working.
I think

[dimviii]

@RallyingUK
DELECOUR:
Mathys Delecour (son of François) getting some expert tuition from nine-times world rally champion, Sébastien Loeb yesterday.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzLnrT6UYAo0dqL?format=jpg&name=large

[Neige]

Hi folks!

I've done some article about Rallying and limits. Some really interesting thoughts from top Lithuania drivers, like Benediktas Vanagas, Vytautas Švedas, Vladas Jurekevičius. Also Finnish-short Teemu Asunmaa answer.

https://rally-week.com/limits-and-rallying/

Hope You will find it worth reading

[lmmjvss]

Hey what other motorsport championship do you guys follow closely?

[Rally Hokkaido]

Hey what other motorsport championship do you guys follow closely?

APRC, NZRC, Asian GT, ERC, ARC & FIA Cross-Country, in that order (when they are actually running!)

[AndyRAC]

Hey what other motorsport championship do you guys follow closely?

IMSA Weathertech series, WEC, Blancpain GT, Super GT, MotoGP, ELMS, NLS (Nurburgring, ex VLN), Indycar, etc Too many others to mention.

[lmmjvss]

Im not even naming what I watch because its +30 championships without a doubt hahah
(Including weird things Marble-Racing, Drone Racing, SnowboardCross and RC 1:8 Buggys haha)

[Myrvold]

Hey what other motorsport championship do you guys follow closely?

F1, F2, F3, IndyCar, WRX, NASCAR Cup, Xfinity & Trucks, Porsche Supercup, MotoGP,2,3, WEC, IMSA. Porsche Cup Scandinavia and Ferrari Challenge/Trophy.
Mainly whatever I can watch, most of this (not IMSA) is being broadcasted by Viasat in Norway.

[EstWRC]

F1, F2 and MotoGP very closely, also i big fan of LeMans

[AnttiL]

Hey what other motorsport championship do you guys follow closely?

Nothing else than rally, and nothing as closely as WRC.

[focus206]

I don't care much for motorbikes, while formula cars and prototypes (except Le Mans) don't attract me... I like cars that I can somewhat see they're "car-shaped" :D
Other than rallying I follow touring car racing, GT racing... rarely rallycross, I find it less exciting. I'd follow hillclimbing and cross country rallyes too, but can't do much to follow them, especially now.

[bomber21]

I only follow WRC. I know nothing about F1 etc.

[denkimi]

i follow f1, wrc and the belgian rally championship. and a bit of erc, dakar, lemans and rallycross.

[lmmjvss]

Interesting. I always thought rally fans would follow way more off road stuff but it doesnt looks so.

[pantealex]

Interesting. I always thought rally fans would follow way more off road stuff but it doesnt looks so.

What do you mean by "off road staff" ?
enduro motorbikes ?
downhill cycling ?
car trial ?

[Myrvold]

Interesting. I always thought rally fans would follow way more off road stuff but it doesnt looks so.

Like pantealex says, what? ERC? National championships? Or things like Dakar, Enduro etc.? Much is limited by coverage as well.

[lmmjvss]

I thougth I would see here more "rallycross, autocross, sprintcars and motocross" than F1 and Le Mans, for example, u'know? But its all fine. I love them all!

[Jarek Z]

I only follow WRC, ERC and Polish rally championship. I also like Italian rally scene, but don't follow it closely.
I used to like Dakar, but stopped watching it when TV reports started to be extremely boring a few years ago.

[Jarek Z]

formula cars and prototypes (except Le Mans) don't attract me... I like cars that I can somewhat see they're "car-shaped" :D

Is it car-shaped or a prototype? :D
https://motoraldia7.com/noticia/3956/jose-mari-estrena-motor-y-neumaticos

[focus206]

Is it car-shaped or a prototype? :D
https://motoraldia7.com/noticia/3956/jose-mari-estrena-motor-y-neumaticos

In hillclimbing you can find some of these "car shaped prototypes", I'm surprised this one is allowed in some rallyes in the Canarias. It gets a thumb up from me :D

[urabus-denoS2000]

Im not even naming what I watch because its +30 championships without a doubt hahah
(Including weird things Marble-Racing, Drone Racing, SnowboardCross and RC 1:8 Buggys haha)

Hey man RC racer here! 8th scale nitro is the glory! Took me away from full scale motorsport for a bit

[lmmjvss]

Hey man RC racer here! 8th scale nitro is the glory! Took me away from full scale motorsport for a bit

F* yeah! 1:8 is my favorite! (but off road 4wd! haha) Im not into any community but I do watch most of the races on Red RC Live and CTRL Sport youtube channels! Not MUUUUUCH action last year because of the Virus but always fun to watch! Are you racing in any of those big "efra" series? Cheers!

[urabus-denoS2000]

F* yeah! 1:8 is my favorite! (but off road 4wd! haha) Im not into any community but I do watch most of the races on Red RC Live and CTRL Sport youtube channels! Not MUUUUUCH action last year because of the Virus but always fun to watch! Are you racing in any of those big "efra" series? Cheers!

Yeah, it's awesome. The reflexes the top guys show, and how they react to changes in the track deteriorating from lap to lap, is amazing. And the cars themselves are amazing, I really think everyone into the technical side of full scale motorsport should check them out, some amazing features are present in a tiny package.

I raced 1:8th off-road nitro buggies but unfortunately the track has closed down. I've since become very much involved in 1:8 GT (an on-road nitro class), and even developed my own car with my dad which I now race. We're very deep into it, check it out on FB - it's called MLX 1/8 GT.

I've raced at some EFRA events - I competed in the 2015 1:8 buggy Euros in Italy, in 2017 I raced at the nitro Euros in France and also at the electric 1:8 Euros in Croatia, and finally in 2019 at the GT Euros in Germany - where I even managed a decent result :) And yeah, all the Euros got cancelled - last major race was the GT Worlds in Miami last January. This years Euros got cancelled as well a week ago, so no major racing in Europe till 2022 I'm afraid :(

[AnttiL]

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2021/04/30/wrc-calendar-history-vii-1997/

The WRC Calendar History series continues with the "new beginning" of WRC in 1997. 14 events, 400 km maximum length, per event all drivers doing all events for the first time.

[NickRally]

Gutted :), someone got to a road going version before me:

https://www.carscoops.com/2021/04/legendary-lancia-037-returns-as-a-modern-supercar-from-kimera-automobili/

My consolation is that I still prefer my version for a modern Rally 037, appreciating that taste is a personal thing :)

If they went for a restomod, I think I would have liked it, but not the mash up of 037, S4 and Integrale they have gone for. Considering that they are Italians and no one can beat their tradition when it comes to car styling, the result is quite surprising.

Coincidentally, a restomod 037 would be a fantastic exercise.

Nothing changes for me though, still want to build my Rally 037 MkII :)

[Humber]

Apologies, if this was put up before.

Paddon put the i30N TCR up for sale again.
His results in the one round NZTCR title event. race 1 dnf- driveshaft broke on the warm up, race 2 : 4th race 3: 1st

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/specialist-cars/competition-cars/listing/3075223435?rsqid=42a333e65d244075bb99824e154c8d55-001&bof=TMsTJZ3U

Also appears to be trying a different engine tuner for the i20 AP4+ before the next round of the NZRC at Whangarei.

[lmmjvss]

Is there anything ""like"" the "wrc" but with motorcycles?

[focus206]

Is there anything ""like"" the "wrc" but with motorcycles?

Enduro I guess?

[Rally Hokkaido]

Is there anything ""like"" the "wrc" but with motorcycles?

Yes, I believe in India they still have motorcycle rallies with navigator riding pillion. I have seen pix & video from a few years ago.

[AndyRAC]

Enduro I guess?

Yes, I'd say that's the closest motorbikes come to rallying; though I think all timed stages are 'off road'. Unlike rallying, they don't have Tarmac rounds.....

However, it's well worth going along to watch - I've been to a few in Wales, and it's a good day out.

[AnttiL]

Enduro is also raced with mountain bikes, although in many cases they use ski lifts for the "liaisons" to climb up a mountain and then descend rapidly on "special stages". But it's another sport that uses the same principle as rallying.

[OHL]

Is there anything ""like"" the "wrc" but with motorcycles?

Dakar is maybe the most famous but there are a bunch of other rally raid / cross-country rally events like Silk Way Rally, Rallye du Maroc, Abu Dhabi, Baja, Andalucia Rally, etc.
There are generally a lot of bikes at these events and they have their own FIA or other governing body championships that are equivalent to the WRC.

They don't have a codriver if that is what you meant but they have to navigate, have liaison and competitive sections, lateness penalties, timed services, controls, etc. etc.
To me it is one of the most impressive motorsport disciplines when you consider all that they have to do, and do well, to be a champion.

[dimviii]

Sohlberg talks about Gus,Pajari and Mitsubishi days.Nice interview.


http://motorboxradio.com.ar/2021/05/12/entrevista-con-kristian-sohlberg-conociendo-al-instructor-de-gus-greensmith-y-sami-pajari/

[lmmjvss]

Just checking the Number of followers on facebook and instagram (fb / insta)...
Dammn we are WAY behind NASCAR. I know this doenst mean anything but at the same time it does...

MotoGP 13mi / 10mi
F1 9,9mi / 13mi
NASCAR 5,1mi / 1,4mi
Supercross 3,3mi / 1,7mi
MXGP 3mi / 1mi
WRC 2,7mi / 1,6mi

-----------
Other series (only on facebook), just for the sake of it:
Dakar Rally 2,2mi, ABB Formula E 1,5mi, NHRA 1,3mi, WorldSBK 1,3mi,
Stadium Super Trucks 1mi, FIA WTCR 978k, Supercars 943k, NTT INDYCAR SERIES 935k, American Flat Track 924k, Pro Motocross 708k, WorldRX 668k, DTM 656k, FIA WEC 336k, World of Outlaws 328k, FIA ERC 296k, FIM SpeedwayGP 253k, IMSA 249k.
Crazy how wec, dtm, imsa are so small on these numbers.

[bomber21]

WRC promoter needs to hire a social media expert…

[focus206]

That means very little. NASCAR, just like any American series, heavily promotes their social medias pages, and Americans tend to use more social medias than Europeans on average. I bet that if we talk on a global level, rallying is much more known and followed than NASCAR, nevermind the "likes"... I don't even think I follow the WRC pages on any social media either. With that said, it's true WRC could increase their presence on medias...

[lmmjvss]

That means very little. NASCAR, just like any American series, heavily promotes their social medias pages, and Americans tend to use more social medias than Europeans on average. I bet that if we talk on a global level, rallying is much more known and followed than NASCAR, nevermind the "likes"... I don't even think I follow the WRC pages on any social media either. With that said, it's true WRC could increase their presence on medias...

True. Same here. I dont follow WRC to avoid spoilers also cuz I can only watch the races during the week when Im not working.

[lmmjvss]

In your opinion, which company should assume WRC as the promoter? I love that RedBull made it free and stuff but I really think WRC should reboot itself. Im not sure how... I know rally fans like to live in the past , want the old brands back (subaru-mitsubish FFS!!) want way more privateers and cool stories of "oh that guy entered his garage car and won monte carlo". We know that younger fans only pay attention to drama and short clips on youtube. We know that a racing series have to talk about what they are doing to "save the planet" (bio-fuels are a good thing. They should even present that to the european union as a solution, cuz Litium extraction sucks). New tech like Tweels (the "tire of the future??) or more carbontube parts. Idk if these things could help WRC to grow a little more but I really wish they were trying more. Maybe with a "younger promoter" like youthstream or monster energy? Idk.. Just thinking out loud about these things. I lost my job so I have more time to think about random sh*t haha

[AndyRAC]

In your opinion, which company should assume WRC as the promoter?

Ten years ago we had North One - and they weren't doing a great job. We all saw what a fantastic job Red Bull did with action sports, and people jumping to earth from space. Imagine if they got the WRC promoter job.
Well shortly afterwards they did, and we expected great things....... They've only done okay - C+ could do better!! Far too much of the coverage is behind a paywall - that's never going to get more people interested. But that is their business model......and maybe why we only have 3 manufacturers for the new regs next year. The sport isn't visible enough.

[focus206]

I know rally fans like to live in the past , want the old brands back (subaru-mitsubish FFS!!) want way more privateers
I want more brands, doesn't matter if old or new, 3 is the bare minimum, 2 is straight up depressing... Some privateers might fill a bit the gap left by the lack of manufacturers, but we don't have them either...


We know that younger fans only pay attention to drama and short clips on youtube.
I'm not sure... the live, free races I follow on YouTube have always plenty of views and many people in the chats, in relation to the importance of the championship. GT World Challenge races and 24 hours of Nurburgring always have a good amount of views, even if the races aren't promoted that much. Even "small" championships like TCR Europe always have decent views.
So I don't think young people aren't interest in longer products. If you look at the daily WRC higlights videos, you often see people complaining or being perplexed in the comments on why the highlights are so short. But if you put almost everything behind a pay wall, more people interested in the WRC will never arrive. In my opinion, a good start would be broadcasting at least a couple of stages per rally for free on YouTube, and make highlights videos longer than 1 minute. Locking everything behind a pay wall is like hiding yourself away from any possible newcomer.

[denkimi]

In your opinion, which company should assume WRC as the promoter?
It's been a long time, but the best rally promotor i have ever seen is eurosport back in the IRC days.

[AndyRAC]

It's been a long time, but the best rally promoter i have ever seen is Eurosport back in the IRC days.

Possibly - but don't forget, not every event had live coverage; only selected events, only the Monte had almost all stages live. Eurosport are still the promoter of the ERC - has that really been a success? 30 min late night highlights is a bit 'old school'.

[lmmjvss]

Is there any documentary showing the whooole process behind a rally event? Like... How does a promoter decides where to host the rally, all the meeting with the city, locals, how they get permissions to close the roads, what the people who live there think, all the stages being decided... It'd be so interesting. Thanks!

[KiwiWRCfan]

Eurosport are still the promoter of the ERC - ...
Speculation that RedbullTV will replace Eurosport as ERC Promoter from January 2022
https://dirtfish.com/rally/erc/wrc-promoter-to-take-over-running-of-erc/

[lmmjvss]

Not sure if you guy are into new Tires and Wheels tech but this video have some of the concepts and products out there. I really wish WRC could look into this u'know? I bet theres something tire's brands could take from rally when it comes to "develop new tech". The "we need car manufacturers" are getting old IMO. I'd rather have tire and fuel brands having "teams" in WRC to test these new tire tech and e-fuels via competition. I know, its expensive as f* but its just a wish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DxVq3Fhf8E

[skarderud]

Doublepost

[lmmjvss]

This trackmania Cheating Scandal Is Utterly Fascinating... And I have never seen these rally cars and stages on this game. This was very interesting to watch, even that I have never played that game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDUdGvgmKIw

[KiwiWRCfan]

An Estonian rally fan walked into a bar to celebrate his countryman leading the points table for new events on the 2021 WRC calendar.

[Rally Hokkaido]

An Estonian rally fan walked into a bar to celebrate his countryman leading the points table for new events on the 2021 WRC calendar.

Bit of a stretch to call the 2021 Safari Rally a 'returning event' and no way can the tarmac Rally Japan near Nagoya be seen as a return of the previous Hokkaido-based gravel event.

[KiwiWRCfan]

Bit of a stretch to call the 2021 Safari Rally a 'returning event' and no way can the tarmac Rally Japan near Nagoya be seen as a return of the previous Hokkaido-based gravel event.
You make a very good point. Heading changed to be more appropriate. Thank you for highlighting.

[lmmjvss]

extreme-e broadcast improved 100% for this event happening right now in dakar.
I was not impressed last time in saudi arabia but its pretty great right now haha
especially this "rally" part (racing against the clock)

edit: jeeeez Kyle Leduc is so fun to watch! What a beast.

[dimviii]

How Auriol started.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/how-it-started-didier-auriol/

[Humber]

Paddon writes about Sardinia.

HP said there was a phone call to do the Sardinia Rally in a WRC a few weeks back, but the quarantine was not going to work. My guess is someone like Pirelli (Paddon uses Pirelli on his AP4+ car in NZ ) might have wanted to run the old Citroen or something.(Italian sponsored entry on the Italian wrc round).
https://talkmotorsport.co.nz/rally/hayden-paddon-writes-a-wrc-invite-to-rally-in-sardenga/

[lmmjvss]

Im not paying for WRC+ this years cuz I lost my job so Im only watching that shitty RedBullTV's highlights coverage with lots of bla bla bla instead of showing the actual highlights like in WRC+ highlights...
However I just realized that RedBullTV is actually using the WRC+ highlights this year!
Any infos on that? I mean, I like WRC+ highlights better but that doenst sound like a "Gmbh thing".

[Corcaíoch]

Not trying to start another debate about Ostberg's comments and punishment, but simply a more general question. Are drivers obliged to take part in end of stage interviews or can the simply drive off if they wish? Also, if they are obliged to do so but still choose to drive off can they be punished for doing so or has this happened in the past? (apologies if this was already covered in the debate after Ostberg's comments)

[AnttiL]

Not trying to start another debate about Ostberg's comments and punishment, but simply a more general question. Are drivers obliged to take part in end of stage interviews or can the simply drive off if they wish? Also, if they are obliged to do so but still choose to drive off can they be punished for doing so or has this happened in the past? (apologies if this was already covered in the debate after Ostberg's comments)

At least Colin Clark has said repeatedly that they are not obliged to say anything, it's just a "promotional" opportunity they are given. And there are instances where the driver just drives off, if they have an issue.

[Corcaíoch]

Sorry I should have explained better, leaving because of an issue is understandable and reasonably common, I meant more if a driver simply drives off everytime? For example if Ostberg (or another driver) now decided not to bother with end of stage interviews at all.

[wyler]

Sorry I should have explained better, leaving because of an issue is understandable and reasonably common, I meant more if a driver simply drives off everytime? For example if Ostberg (or another driver) now decided not to bother with end of stage interviews at all.

it happens, when they are particularly pissed off. still, I think sponsors warmly suggest to stop and show their hat. Also as personal branding for drivers, is better to show your face to fans if u want to engage them (meaning social followers, merch selling, attracting more sponsors, ...)
then, as in ostberg case maybe, sometimes they just want to send messages with a bit of public pressure to manufacturers or suppliers.

[fiscorpun]

How long it takes for a driver to complete the whole event "recce"? I mean, passing thru all of the stages.
Cuz Racing at 150kmh it takes 2 hours to complete all stages

[AnttiL]

How long it takes for a driver to complete the whole event "recce"? I mean, passing thru all of the stages.
Cuz Racing at 150kmh it takes 2 hours to complete all stages

two days, occasionally three. They do two consecutive passes of each stage

[fiscorpun]

two days, occasionally three. They do two consecutive passes of each stage

Wow, thats a lot! WRC is the most "dificult" racing series in several aspects, right?
From 2 to 3 days of recce to promotion (tv/internet/audience) to ALL the work on and with the streets, houses, locals, governments, public on the track, the access itself, helicopters, safety, rescue, marshalls...
Its crazy to imagine all the work behind it! Amazing...

[KiwiWRCfan]

A Welshman, a Spaniard, an Italian and a Norwegian/Swede walked into a Naivasha bar.
"Guess it has been a tough morning at the rally lads. What would you like ?" asked the barman

[AnttiL]

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2021/06/28/wrc-calendar-history-viii-1998-2003/

WRC Calendar History from 1998 to 2003. Introduction of Cyprus, Deutschland and Turkey, as well as a visit to China. The format changed here to clover leaf and single service park as well as into the weekend.

[lmmjvss]

Random... again:
I was thinking about something kinda obvious but it was interesting to think about...
World racing championships are always "on social media" posting content, promoting themselves, showing clips, posting those "Oh, we cant wait for the next round in 30 days" or nowdays posting engaging things...
Same for American motorsport, but they focus more on the cars and drivers... I think? But its the same thing... every day on the internet.

BUT... when it comes to european championships like euro rally, euro motocross, euro rallycross, euro autocross, euro supermoto... they dont spend much time on "content" and "promotion". It looks more all about the racing, not the "propaganda". I mean, erc is the biggest european championship among these mentioned and you see one thing or another regarding "next race this weekend" but it is almost nothing compared to world and american series.
And I like to think that I respect THIS a lot... Idk, its getting tired the "you have to post things every day to stay relevant". Idk... I know its good because of sponsorships and stuff.. but hey... great job european championships!

[MartijnS]

https://i.postimg.cc/prsbQ95t/Whats-App-Image-2021-07-08-at-11-05-00.jpg

Max and Jos Verstappen having some fun with an Evo and Citroen C3 R5 at Weeze Airport Germany.
Jos has been into rallying for fun for a while now and bought these cars and Max joined him last monday :)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

GOODWOOD FESTIVAL OF SPEED RALLY STAGE LIVE STREAM

https://www.goodwood.com/grr/event-coverage/festival-of-speed/2021/7/2021-festival-of-speed-rally-stage-live-stream/

[dimviii]

Del Buono - Reutemann: the story of the pairing shared by a Lancia Delta in the 1991 Rally Argentina

A few days after the death of Carlos Reutemann, we decided to pay tribute to him with an interview and analysis that will explore one of the few but magnificent incursions of Santa Fe in the rally. Beyond the outstanding podiums of "Lole" in the Codasur Rally 1980 with the Fiat 131 Abarth and the Rally Argentina 1985 with the Peugeot 205 T16 of Group B, today we will have a deep and detailed talk with the navigator, Jorge "Bicho" of the Buono, who accompanied the 1981 Formula 1 runner-up aboard a Group A Lancia Delta Integrale at the 1991 Rally Argentina.

http://motorboxradio.com.ar/2021/07/13/del-buono-reutemann-la-historia-del-binomio-que-compartio-un-lancia-delta-en-el-rally-argentina-de-1991/

[dimviii]

“Corrado took [my concerns] like an insult. ‘How can you say that about Peugeot?’ No, it was the contrary, I was saying it as an alarm bell, that we needed a different strategy if we were to win the world championship.

“We should have won the world championship that year, had we had the same car as the previous season, but we made bulls*** changes, we screwed up. And he never listened to me.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/where-it-started-gilles-panizzi/

[fiscorpun]

I dont speak this language but the graphic is interesting... I think?
https://sport.delfi.ee/artikkel/82761773/wrc-kanali-tellijate-statistika-paljastab-eestlastest-suuremaid-rallifanne-maailmas-ei-leidu?

[Päss1928]

I dont speak this language but the graphic is interesting... I think?
https://sport.delfi.ee/artikkel/82761773/wrc-kanali-tellijate-statistika-paljastab-eestlastest-suuremaid-rallifanne-maailmas-ei-leidu?

This article is from 3 years ago. And fyi, you can translate the whole page with google translator.

[fiscorpun]

This article is from 3 years ago. And fyi, you can translate the whole page with google translator.

Sorry. Was on the smartphone at work. Reading it properly when Im home

[lmmjvss]

should we have a topic for extreme-e like we have for rallycross?
They just announced they will have a race in Sardegna (Island X-Prix) in 23-24 Oct (replacing the races in south america).

[lmmjvss]

I just noticed that there was a DS3 in Portugal! Cyrille, from France.
Thats cool!

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/SaariJarno/status/1426110914542120962

Some fire spitting action from a historic Audi quattro

[AnttiL]

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2021/08/16/wrc-calendar-history-ix-2004-2008/

Five years, 79 events. This is the busiest time in the history of WRC with 15-16 events in a season. In addition, super rally was introduced in addition to the rallies of Mexico, Sardegna and Japan, to name a few.

[AndyRAC]

The era when too many manufacturers pulled out - and not enough was done to address it. SupeRally was merely a sticking plaster to a major injury.....

[AnttiL]

The era when too many manufacturers pulled out - and not enough was done to address it. SupeRally was merely a sticking plaster to a major injury.....

I would say super rally has nothing to do with this. It was more like a reaction to single service park system and growing stage kilometres between two services.

Why manufacturers pulled out was more of a reaction to the decline in world economy. If FIA could have reacted to that somehow, they should have shortened the seasons to 10 rallies or something. Well, the season was shortened in 2009...

[AndyRAC]

To lose 3 in one year - Skoda, Mitsubishi & Peugeot is pretty damning......Too many events and not enough exposure, and ROI. Very little was done. By 2008 and the crash in the world economy, we lost Suzuki & Subaru. However, Honda pulled out of F1 at the same time, and the FiA tried to find a solution for their issues, whilst the WRC withered on the vine, not helped by North One being useless.

[AnttiL]

For Skoda and Mitsubishi the reasons were clear, their performance was miserable. I don't remember why Peugeot pulled out, was it because PSA wanted only one brand in WRC?

[Eli]

For Skoda and Mitsubishi the reasons were clear, their performance was miserable. I don't remember why Peugeot pulled out, was it because PSA wanted only one brand in WRC?

If I recall correctly they said they wouldn't allow both brands to compete against one another.

[lmmjvss]

Mitsubishi is running a SUV in some Rally with an old school livery... I dont see them coming back to WRC tho. Maybe hybrid Dakar and extreme-e... maybe?

https://jalopnik.com/mitsubishi-wants-to-relive-its-dakar-glory-days-at-the-1847548875

[dimviii]

Atkinson turned down the chance to be Loeb’s team-mate

https://www.speedcafe.com/2021/09/01/atkinson-turned-down-the-chance-to-be-loebs-team-mate/

[dimviii]

hahaahah
https://twitter.com/BritRallyMedia/status/1446407507652534296

[dimviii]

Borja Rozada and the technical role of a WRC codriver

https://www.wrcwings.tech/2021/10/11/borja-rozada-and-the-technical-role-of-a-wrc-codriver/

[fiscorpun]

Do the drivers can see their stage-times and current position on some screen inside the car?
Someone tells them via radio? Or they just discover how they went when the reporter tells them??
Noob doubt, sorry

[steve.mandzij]

Do the drivers can see their stage-times and current position on some screen inside the car?
Someone tells them via radio? Or they just discover how they went when the reporter tells them??
Noob doubt, sorryUp until 2015 drivers had their split times available from inside the car during the stage, and they could know whether another driver had gone off before them. Since 2016, that has been forbidden, so in theory no, they don't know anything.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[EstWRC]

as the current gen.cars or this era will come an end in a month, i looked some statistics during 2017 - 2021. Monza will add some numbers but most of the results are already decided.

Its still to be decided who will have the most wins during this era, at the moment Ogier has 15, Tänak 14 and Neuville 13. So, Ott has a chance to tie up with Ogier or Ogier has a chance to make things clear and get 16 wins with Monza. Thierry can tie up with Ott but all the 3 guys very close and with basically the same amount.

Wins

Ogier 15
Tänak 14
Neuville 13
Evans 5
Rovanperä 2
Sordo 2
Meeke 2
Latvala 2
Loeb 1
Lappi 1


Podiums:

Ogier 34
Neuville 31
Tänak 30
Evans 16
Sordo 10
Latvala 10
Lappi 7
Mikkelsen 5
Breen 5
Rovanperä 5
Meeke 4
Paddon 4
Loeb 3
Suninen 3
Ostberg 2
Katsuta 1

Power stage wins:

Tänak 16
Neuville 11
Ogier 8
Rovanperä 4
Lappi 4
Latvala 4
Sordo 3
Meeke 3
Katsuta 1
Mikkelsen 1
Evans 1

Stage wins:

Tänak 234
Neuville 205
Ogier 146
Evans 92
Latvala 73
Sordo 54
Meeke 43
Lappi 42
Mikkelsen 41
Rovanperä 29
Breen 20
Loeb 19
Paddon 18
Suninen 14
Katsuta 5
Fourmaux 1

Rally leaders

Tänak 294
Ogier 184
Neuville 178
Evans 93
Sordo 42

Stage wins by manufacturer:

Toyota 417
Hyundai 401
Ford 155

as there are 17 stages in Monza then Hyundai has a chance to pass Toyota but it would mean they have to win all stages, so basically we can say Toyota has won that category, although i must say i was surprised it is so close, i thought Toyota is way ahead


Wins by manufacturer

Toyota 25
Hyundai 17
M-sport 9

[AnttiL]

How about add Rovanperä, Lappi, Latvala and Meeke? At least they have power stage wins and stage wins

[EstWRC]

well my logic was only to add drivers who have competed every season in this era, but i can add them as well later if people are interested

E: added them for most of the categories

[Mirek]

Here in Czech Republic we are currently seeing a massive loss of entrants in rally events. Of course it's the end of the season and most of the fights are already decided but that's not the main reason. The economic problems (some covid related but mostly chip and energy crisis related) are hitting the motorsport very hard and it's likely that the next season will be very poor. Do you see similar trend in your countries?

[lmmjvss]

Here in Czech Republic we are currently seeing a massive loss of entrants in rally events. Of course it's the end of the season and most of the fights are already decided but that's not the main reason. The economic problems (some covid related but mostly chip and energy crisis related) are hitting the motorsport very hard and it's likely that the next season will be very poor. Do you see similar trend in your countries?

This is a very good question that deserves its own topic, IMO!
I checked some stats from the biggest championship in Argentina and the numbers are more or less the same. (it is way smaller and more "amateur" than rallying in europe tho)

[AnttiL]

In Finland September had three and October one ”local” rallies with 150 cars each. In addition to the final round of Finnish championship (100) and WRC event with its side national event (80).

[m-ast]

Here in Czech Republic we are currently seeing a massive loss of entrants in rally events. Of course it's the end of the season and most of the fights are already decided but that's not the main reason. The economic problems (some covid related but mostly chip and energy crisis related) are hitting the motorsport very hard and it's likely that the next season will be very poor. Do you see similar trend in your countries?

In Spain we had huge entries after the re-start because everyone was up for it, nowadays we have so many events each week (with re-scheduled events) that entries went down a bit, but I think nothing dramatic

[PLuto]

Here in Czech Republic we are currently seeing a massive loss of entrants in rally events. Of course it's the end of the season and most of the fights are already decided but that's not the main reason. The economic problems (some covid related but mostly chip and energy crisis related) are hitting the motorsport very hard and it's likely that the next season will be very poor. Do you see similar trend in your countries?

I also dont think that economic problems are the only problem. Of course it is not the best with economy, but it is related also to so many events in very short time. After later start of season and postponing the events to second half of the season, there is less and less crews which are doing whole championships and they are choosing events which they wants to start. It is also problem with similar situation in countries around, because some teams are renting cars to more competitors.

[denkimi]

Here in Czech Republic we are currently seeing a massive loss of entrants in rally events. Of course it's the end of the season and most of the fights are already decided but that's not the main reason. The economic problems (some covid related but mostly chip and energy crisis related) are hitting the motorsport very hard and it's likely that the next season will be very poor. Do you see similar trend in your countries?
Looking at the results of the czech championship on ewrc, i see big no loss of entrants in any rally.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/season/2021/2-czech-republic/

Here in belgium it depends. sSome rallies seem to have lost quite a few entries, mostly the big national ones. But the local rallies mostly seem to have remained stable.

[dimviii]

amazing story i didnt know!

“I more or less stood up on my chair in front of them and put my two hands on the table and said ‘OK, you feel that I am not able to do this job and you have some people that say so. I will find 10 times more people that will tell you that I am able to do that and I will prove you [wrong].”

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2021/wrc/ingrassia-opens-up-on-citroen-shock/

[Jewy46]

https://twitter.com/WRCgerardquinn/status/1463187638719025156?s=20

The car that nearly never happened! There's a documented story to be told on this one, one day.......
The results from 2017/18 alone are living proof that no one should ever give in to bullies.......trust me!

Interesting one! I wonder what the story is behind this?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Queen of Speed - the Michele Mouton documentary is out now on Sky in the UK..

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/sky-to-release-new-documentary-on-michele-moutons-career/6763000/

BBC interview (one hour in):
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0011rpl

[AndyRAC]

I was in the car running some errands, and I got a surprise when I heard the name Michele Mouton was bring interviewed. It's quite apt that this week in November there is rallying on BBC radio. (There was a time when the RAC Rally had hourly updates on Radio2/5/5Live.)

[Norm75]

A good and bad day today.
20 years ago Richard Burns wins championship.
16 years ago loses his battle with brain tumour.

[lmmjvss]

Do you guys follow any type of HillClimb competition? I have been watching that HillClimbMonsters channel on YouTube and I find awesome to see such a variety of cars racing against each other. It reminds me rally, but it looks more "open". Any tips of an official Championship for me to actually follow instead of just these clips?

[focus206]

Do you guys follow any type of HillClimb competition? I have been watching that HillClimbMonsters channel on YouTube and I find awesome to see such a variety of cars racing against each other. It reminds me rally, but it looks more "open". Any tips of an official Championship for me to actually follow instead of just these clips?

That's the beauty of hillclimbing, you can see many "extreme" cars built by small privateers and a huge variety. The only international championship I'm aware of is the European Hillclimb Championship (many clips of HillClimbMonsters are taken from that) but I don't think there are ways to follow it apart from results and videos. Sometimes an organizer might stream the start on their Fb page or YT channel.

[lmmjvss]

Thanks for the infos mate. Weird, it looks a "simple" championship to be broadcasted like the UCI MTB Downhill championship. With some clips from the "top20" plus the "top10" full run. It looks its normally just one stage. Way more simple than a rally Championship, eh? But anyway. Going to check this right now :)

[Mirek]

Thanks for the infos mate. Weird, it looks a "simple" championship to be broadcasted like the UCI MTB Downhill championship. With some clips from the "top20" plus the "top10" full run. It looks its normally just one stage. Way more simple than a rally Championship, eh? But anyway. Going to check this right now :)

I lived for years close to several hill climb tracks, one of them being a European championship (Ecce Homo) classic but to be honest I have never fell in love with it. In that area there were plenty of motorsports to see live every weekend from motorcross over go-karts or truck trial up to MotoGP. I used to visit motorcross and go-karts from time to time but only rally was the one I visited really regularly.

PS One of the craziest things you can see on hill climbs here from time to time is Buggyra with their trucks, both circuit or Dakar ones. Just check the link :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNCBtHk0x98

[seb_sh]

If anybody is interested tomorrow a nice potential christmas present is released: https://www.rallyandracing.com/en/mcklein-store/books/rallye-monte-carlo
There are also Loeb, Roehrl and Munari editions hand signed by each, limited to 200 copies also there on the store.

[AnttiL]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/your-favorite-world-rally-car-1-skoda-octavia-wrc/

According to Dirtfish readers, Skoda Octavia is the best WRC car of all time.

(This poll was open and anonymous, you could vote multiple times if you wanted)

[cali]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/your-favorite-world-rally-car-1-skoda-octavia-wrc/

According to Dirtfish readers, Skoda Octavia is the best WRC car of all time.

(This poll was open and anonymous, you could vote multiple times if you wanted)The Gravel Crew did his job perfectly, it's their cult rally car. But strangely I find it quite amusing and not a bad choice :D

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[Jewy46]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/your-favorite-world-rally-car-1-skoda-octavia-wrc/

According to Dirtfish readers, Skoda Octavia is the best WRC car of all time.

(This poll was open and anonymous, you could vote multiple times if you wanted)

The correct result! ;)

Proud Gravel Crew member!

[lmmjvss]

The Extreme-E season just finished! It was interesting. I was enjoying more the saturdays cuz its more like Rally (timed run) but the races on sunday with multiple cars were actually fun to watch too. I started kinda skeptic but in the end it was a cool series to watch. Hope they keep only 5 or 6 races per year... McLaren is joining for 2022.. No secret that other brands may enter too. FIA will make it a World Championship in some years (no doubt).. Its "easier" than Rally and Dakar to promote so I honestly expect some growth. They cant take over cuz rally and dakar are RALLY AND DAKAR, but they will grow in the next years. And Kyle Leduc is the coolest driver to watch haha awesome

[lmmjvss]

https://youtu.be/gPGh_lCDto4

This is my favorite thing in motorsport. Its like F1, but on dirt haha check it out

[Sulland]

Those cars just came on my bucketlist!

[fiscorpun]

Just thinking out loud but I just discovered that FIM is starting a new World Supercross championship since the federation is not working with the american series anymore. And this is like... Wtf is happening? Because ever year theres new racing championships... Its too much! Travis Pastrana has a new rallycross series! Yey! Oh, and a German guy also have a new Rallycross series! Oh and an ex Nascar driver have a new oval racing series! Oh and Robby Gordon has a new Super Truck series! Oh and FIA will have a new GT series for eléctric cars! OH and a new electric touring car series! Not to mention extreme-e. And a new cross country championship too! Oh and a new electric Boat racing series Called E1. Oh and a new "air race".... I mean, how many "new series" are we getting? Its weird. Is it too much or its just me? OHH a new touring car series in UAE! And a new fórmula 5000 in australia! Oh and a new Trans Am series in NZ! Aaaand a new Gt series in south america...... Jezzz

[Sulland]

Happy Yuletide to you all?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The 25 years of the World Rally Car by some driver's, team bosses and WRC media, plus their place in WRC history and how they will be remembered and compared:

http://motorboxradio.com.ar/2021/12/27/analisis-y-vision-el-paddock-del-campeonato-mundial-despide-a-los-world-rally-car-tras-25-anos/

[lmmjvss]

Haha me again with the: "hey Ive been watching the SCORE championship. You know... Baja1000, 500, 400... Thosr races with trophy trucks and utvs. I know thats different from wrc but booooy those Trucks are awesome. If they could only have a promoter to at leat do some "daily highlights", it be so amazing. They used to have these on ESPN but a long time ago. Kinda like WRC+ daily highlights. At the same time, I wish WRC were more like SCORE when it comes to entries: "here are the rules. Build your machine and race". I love the concept of these guys racing without manufacturer support, with toons of Trucks and UTVs on the entry list. What a blast!

[pantealex]

IceOne Racing is officially back, it has entered Justus Räikkönen to Arctic Rally 2022. Car is standard Ford Fiesta 1.6 and Justus is way under 18y.

[dimviii]

Happy new year guys!!

[wwbroe]

Happy New Year to you all :beer::beer::beer:

[cali]

Happy new year dear fellow rallyholics!

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[dimviii]

What could have been: When a rally king's Le Mans debut was scuppered
Carlos Sainz is a name synonymous with rallying, the Spaniard etching his name into the history books as a double World Rally champion and currently gunning for a fourth Dakar win with Audi. Had it not been for a date change, he may well have added a further bit of history to his credit at the Le Mans 24 Hours...

https://www.autosport.com/le-mans/news/what-could-have-been-when-a-rally-kings-le-mans-debut-was-scuppered/6971265/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=RSS-WRC&utm_term=News&utm_content=uk

[Eli]

Even if a bit belated, Happy New (Rally) Year's everyone!

[Rally Hokkaido]

It's only Day 1 of Dakar, but surprisingly WRC drivers occupy the first three places; namely Al-Attiyah, Loeb and Prokop! Sadly, Carlos got lost and is currently 37th. https://live.worldrallyraidchampionship.com/2022/dakar/ha-rsquo-il-ha-rsquo-il-1/asod/ukie/m

Edit: In the Prototype Class last minute substitute Dakar rookie Mikkelsen has been praised for .. surviving the first day and not running last!

[Mirek]

We have a thread for Dakar ;)
https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?42165-Dakar-2022&p=1289626#post1289626

[Rally Hokkaido]

We have a thread for Dakar ;)
https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?42165-Dakar-2022&p=1289626#post1289626

Yes, but I thought the Day 1 results were interesting from a WRC point of view!

[mknight]

Would be nice to get drivers that drove multiple 2017reg cars do a comparison of how they were to drive compared with each other:

Candidates to ask during an interview:

Ogier - Polo, Fiesta, C3, Yaris (didn't drive i20)
Mikkelsen - Polo, Fiesta (tests on both surf.), C3, i20 ( no Yaris)
Tanak - Fiesta, Yaris, i20 ( no C3 and Polo)

[lmmjvss]

Is there an actual "rally sprint" championshop with R5s? Or maybe "what is the biggest one" out there?

[AnttiL]

Would be nice to get drivers that drove multiple 2017reg cars do a comparison of how they were to drive compared with each other:

Candidates to ask during an interview:

Ogier - Polo, Fiesta, C3, Yaris (didn't drive i20)
Mikkelsen - Polo, Fiesta (tests on both surf.), C3, i20 ( no Yaris)
Tanak - Fiesta, Yaris, i20 ( no C3 and Polo)

Lappi - Yaris, C3, Fiesta

[Mirek]

Is there an actual "rally sprint" championshop with R5s? Or maybe "what is the biggest one" out there?

What is your definition of rally sprint? Here we have a rally sprint championship but in our country a rally sprint means a normal rally which has all stages in one day only.