Rally Discussion and Bar Talk Thread

[el_kukui]

Got it! Many thanks!

[dimviii]

Meeke without a roll
https://www.instagram.com/p/BoT6WWBFZ61/?utm_source=ig_twitter_share&igshid=kumzf3eot0cr

[AnttiL]

https://www.rally-maps.com/Rally-de-Espa%C3%B1a-1993

Rally Catalunya maps from 1993 onwards are now mapped, thanks to WRCWings for supplying the map material for digitizing.

[AnttiL]

https://www.rally-maps.com/Rally-de-Espa%C3%B1a-1993

Rally Catalunya maps from 1993 onwards are now mapped, thanks to WRCWings for supplying the map material for digitizing.

Also RAC Rally 1994 and 1995

https://www.rally-maps.com/RAC-Rally-1994

Talk about stupid liaisons, the whole of first day...

[AndyRAC]

Ah SS4 - Clumber Park; that was the live TV stage on Top Gear Rally Report....still got it on video somewhere.

I think it was only about 30 stage miles on the first day; but it was taking the sport to the masses. Unlike now when it's largely invisible. So much for progress.

[AnttiL]

Ah SS4 - Clumber Park; that was the live TV stage on Top Gear Rally Report....still got it on video somewhere.

Here is the 1993 video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6l-1f_XsRs

[krissucool]

A little of topic but wanted to raise the question. How popular is rally in other countries? In Estonia, when Tänak is fighting for a win, the whole news media stops talking about anything else and that is the most importand thing for the whole country it seems.
I know Finnish media follows rally quite closely as well. But how is it in other countries?

The question comes mainly since I have been working abroad and know a lot of people from all across Europe and I basically know nobody who knows anything about rallying besides Estonians and Fins.

Not a single UK person I have spoken to knows who Evans is for instance. Even not the Welsh! (and we both work in and around sports).
I know rallies get a lot of people on the roads but how popular is Thierry Neuville in Belgium? Does the media cover him closely there. Do regular people even know who Seb Ogier is in France and so on?
Really interested in this, since my experience is that we Estonians and Fins are the only nutjobs following rally this closely.

[dupanton]

I know rallies get a lot of people on the roads but how popular is Thierry Neuville in Belgium? Does the media cover him closely there. Do regular people even know who Seb Ogier is in France and so on?

Rally is getting more and more popular in Belgium. With reports of 20min to a half hour on sunday after noon of every round of the Belgian championship, even Belgian top drivers are getting more known. For sure, there are quite a few people how know who Neuville is. Football and cycling are far more popular for sure.

[pantealex]

Rally Discussion and Bar talk thread is for this kind of questions...

Good question but wrong chain.


A little of topic but wanted to raise the question. How popular is rally in other countries? In Estonia, when Tänak is fighting for a win, the whole news media stops talking about anything else and that is the most importand thing for the whole country it seems.
I know Finnish media follows rally quite closely as well. But how is it in other countries?

The question comes mainly since I have been working abroad and know a lot of people from all across Europe and I basically know nobody who knows anything about rallying besides Estonians and Fins.

Not a single UK person I have spoken to knows who Evans is for instance. Even not the Welsh! (and we both work in and around sports).
I know rallies get a lot of people on the roads but how popular is Thierry Neuville in Belgium? Does the media cover him closely there. Do regular people even know who Seb Ogier is in France and so on?
Really interested in this, since my experience is that we Estonians and Fins are the only nutjobs following rally this closely.

[USER47]

I was recently in Belgium and a friend from there (girl who isn't interested in rallye at all) knew who Neuville was, and I saw his face on some drinks and such, so he probably is quite well known there.

[Berke]

Loeb is quite well known in France but I don't know if that's the case with Ogier as well. Here in Turkey, people know no one from motor sports but Schumacher. :)

[krissucool]

Loeb is quite well known in France but I don't know if that's the case with Ogier as well. Here in Turkey, people know no one from motor sports but Schumacher. :)

This makes it double spectacular how 2 of the greatest drivers of the 21st century come from France where the sport is not even popular.

Another thing what amazes me is how much money big manufacturers pour into the sport while it is not the most popular of motorsports out there. Where in almost no countries the biggest stars of the sport are household names for the regular public. Not since Colin McRae.

[denkimi]

This makes it double spectacular how 2 of the greatest drivers of the 21st century come from France where the sport is not even popular.

Another thing what amazes me is how much money big manufacturers pour into the sport while it is not the most popular of motorsports out there. Where in almost no countries the biggest stars of the sport are household names for the regular public. Not since Colin McRae.
There are not many fia world championships, so they have not much choise. And besides f1 all the others are even more unknown to the general public.

And they really don't put in that much money compared to their other budgets. Toyota and ford spends both more than 4 billion dollar on advertising annually, Volkswagen even spends 6,5 billion. For a few tens of millions they can try to be wrc world champion, to do that in f1 they need to spend much much more.

[krissucool]

There are not many fia world championships, so they have not much choise. And besides f1 all the others are even more unknown to the general public.

And they really don't put in that much money compared to their other budgets. Toyota and ford spends both more than 4 billion dollar on advertising annually, Volkswagen even spends 6,5 billion. For a few tens of millions they can try to be wrc world champion, to do that in f1 they need to spend much much more.
Fair point. Moto Gp should still be a fair bit more popular but otherwise good points.

[EstWRC]

this Tänak thing has actually got out of hands in estonia at times and so big IMO...its just ridiculous sometimes, they make an article basically about everything

"EXCLUSIVE, Ott ate an sandwich"

[skarderud]

I Norway everyone know who Petter and Henning Solberg is, most people also know about Oliver Solberg:)
Maybe 30% know Mads Østberg and Andreas Mikkelsen?
I think most people don't know who foreign drivers is, exept colin mcrae of course:)


Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Mirek]

Fair point. Moto Gp should still be a fair bit more popular but otherwise good points.

MotoGP is irrelevant for carmakers simply because they don't sell motorbikes but cars.

[Mirek]

I Norway everyone know who Petter and Henning Solberg is, most people also know about Oliver Solberg:)
Maybe 30% know Mads Østberg and Andreas Mikkelsen?
I think most people don't know who foreign drivers is, exept colin mcrae of course:)

Recently Veiby became very well known in Czech Republic but instead of his performance it's because of his stupid instagram stunt. It got into all major media and at some it even topped the most read article of the month...

[Rally Power]

This makes it double spectacular how 2 of the greatest drivers of the 21st century come from France where the sport is not even popular.

Really? I’m not French but I’ve family living there for a long time and I can assure you Rally is actually popular in France. For sure it’s not as popular as Foot or Rugby but everyone knows who Ogier is and every weekend there are dozens of rallys taking place all over the country with huge entry lists. Rally was born in France and till the mid 70’s French drivers and manus were regularly among the rally elite; actually, the first WRC manus champ was won by Alpine Renault, with the iconic A110 driven by local aces like Andruet, Nicolas, Darniche or Thérier. After a period were F1 become locally more popular, the 205T16 rally achievements made the sport noticeable again among the French and many still remember Vatanen (probably the most 'Frenchie' of the Finns) wins with it. Before Loeb and Citroen domination era, guys like Auriol, Delecour or Panizzi also managed to impress the rally world. Btw, all French manus (Citroen, Peugeot and Renault) have been directly involved in the sport, not only by running huge profile programs but mainly for providing privateers a wide range of rally cars, from low budget to top spec machines.

PS: forgot to mention Michelle Mouton; the only woman capable of winning WRC events in the series history.

[skarderud]

Recently Veiby became very well known in Czech Republic but instead of his performance it's because of his stupid instagram stunt. It got into all major media and at some it even topped the most read article of the month...Stupid Instagram stunt? Not heard of?

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[SubaruNorway]

Stupid Instagram stunt? Not heard of?

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

https://www.lidovky.cz/byznys/auto/skoda-vypovedela-smlouvu-norskemu-zavodnikovi-udajne-kvuli-zverejneni-ocekavanych-propadu-provozniho-zisku.A181001_093520_ln-auto_tn

[janvanvurpa]

this Tänak thing has actually got out of hands in estonia at times and so big IMO...its just ridiculous sometimes, they make an article basically about everything

"EXCLUSIVE, Ott ate an sandwich"


WOW! What kind of bread? Mustard? That's sooooooooooooooooo cool..

Did he have anything to drink?

[skarderud]

https://www.lidovky.cz/byznys/auto/skoda-vypovedela-smlouvu-norskemu-zavodnikovi-udajne-kvuli-zverejneni-ocekavanych-propadu-provozniho-zisku.A181001_093520_ln-auto_tnOk, thats the reason. Heard it mentioned but missed the Instagram part.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Zeakiwi]

WOW! What kind of bread? Mustard? That's sooooooooooooooooo cool..

Did he have anything to drink?

Estonian Black bread, it does not make your butt large according to Ott.

https://estoniancuisine.com/2017/02/23/how-to-do-estonian-black-bread-leib/

[hype]

In Germany no one I know or speak to knows anything about rally.
- What did you do last weekend?
- I visited a rally
- Aha, hmm, did you drive yourself?
- No, I took photos
- mmh, aha, interesting, what kind of rally is that?
- The world rally championship
- Oh, wow, that sounds cool... never heard of it *yawn*

[N.O.T]

In Germany no one I know or speak to knows anything about rally.
- What did you do last weekend?
- I visited a rally
- Aha, hmm, did you drive yourself?
- No, I took photos
- mmh, aha, interesting, what kind of rally is that?
- The world rally championship
- Oh, wow, that sounds cool... never heard of it *yawn*

That is how it is in any country apart from very few exceptions...

[eib1]

Östberg´s Fiesta sold to Estonia. First start in 2 days at Saaremaa Rally

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-zdSoCpDFvAQ/W736837RDxI/AAAAAAAAClk/ZyJ5azSBOHEhoVPhYxpHBhfEF2Fhv9O6wCLcBGAs/s1600/43518823_332425217518808_4823829902174191616_n.jpg

[eib1]

According to local media, the owner of car is Tänak´s company OT Racing.
Was wondering, will he going to get latest upgrades also? :D

[EstWRC]

Yes the owner is OTracing but im sure it was bought by Tänaks long time sponsor Oleg Gross. At least this was the case with the previous car.

E: ok estonian media reporting that it belongs to Tänak..well maybe but im not sure.

[Tarmop]

Convenient, like many prefer to rent top machinery instead of owning, losing its value and maintaining it.

[EstWRC]

why i cant see Meeke in rally legend standings on ewrc site ?

[dimviii]

why i cant see Meeke in rally legend standings on ewrc site ?
he is at the ''show'' cars only.

[noel157]

In Germany no one I know or speak to knows anything about rally.
- What did you do last weekend?
- I visited a rally
- Aha, hmm, did you drive yourself?
- No, I took photos
- mmh, aha, interesting, what kind of rally is that?
- The world rally championship
- Oh, wow, that sounds cool... never heard of it *yawn*

What did you do at the weekend?
Went to a rally.
What were you protesting about?...............

[EstWRC]

he is at the ''show'' cars only.

neeehhh...such a mystery man nowadays

[Rally Power]

Red Bull continues to run some ‘top gear style’ challenges; this time it was Sordo vs a MTB champ, using a former Rally de Portugal stage: https://www.redbull.com/int-en/tv/video/AP-1X3Z4R2XD1W11/fast-encounter

[hype]

Has anyone visited Rally Argentina or Mexico and can recommend one of the two?

[GigiGalliNo1]

Mexico. Free to roam around, if you are Western or a Gringo it's an advantage.

Mexico is a fantastic rally!

[Barreis]

Meeke and Breen combo destroyed four chassis of C3 WRC
https://www.ewrc-results.com/cars/65-citroen-c3-wrc/

[Simmi]

Mexico. Free to roam around, if you are Western or a Gringo it's an advantage.

Mexico is a fantastic rally!

Planning to do Mexico next year. Looking forward to it!

[steve.mandzij]

Has anyone visited Rally Argentina or Mexico and can recommend one of the two?Argentina is sensational. If you stay in Carlos Paz you're not too far from Saturday and Sunday's stages. El Cóndor is something remarkable, the atmosphere is like nothing else and the view while you're hiking toward the stage is amazing.

The city center is pretty decent too, developed and well populated but not overly crowded, and the prices of food and things are quite low/reasonable.

I stayed in a small bed and breakfast called Mirador de las Sierras, family owned, and when we got up at 6 to go to the stages the owners made us coffee and gave us breakfast despite the official time being at 8. Hopefully I'll go again next year!

[hype]

Sounds awesome, that will be a really hard decision for me... I like both Mexico and Argentina.
It will be my first rally on a different continent (I've been to Jordan, but that's not that far away) so I want to pick the right one to not be disappointed.
Can you freely roam around in Argentina?
And can you spend around one week around Cordoba?

[steve.mandzij]

Sounds awesome, that will be a really hard decision for me... I like both Mexico and Argentina.
It will be my first rally on a different continent (I've been to Jordan, but that's not that far away) so I want to pick the right one to not be disappointed.
Can you freely roam around in Argentina?
And can you spend around one week around Cordoba?

I'm from Buenos Aires and travelled to Carlos Paz by car, and I haven't been to Córdoba city since I travelled on Friday (meaning I also missed that day's stages; as I said before, the stages in Villa General Belgrano on Friday are a couple hours away from Carlos Paz, so I only saw the stages nearer to me).

If by freely roam you mean travel anywhere in the country, yes! There aren't any restrictions on entering or leaving provinces.

To be fair, I didn't have much time to wander in Carlos Paz since I was at the stages most of the time. I visited Tanti for the Tanti-Villa Bustos stage on Saturday and stayed in that town until the second pass through the stage was done, and between runs when the stage wasn't being run I walked around the little town (really, Tanti is gorgeous) for a few hours just exploring, and I found a little waterfall and had a coffee there! My point is, most of the roaming and exploring is spent wherever the stages are, but while I didn't do much in Carlos Paz I know there was a karting track and a lot of cafés and bars and stuff.

You might find something to do for a week in Córdoba, but you might be stretching it in Carlos Paz. My advice would be to travel to Buenos Aires, the capital, and stay there for a week (the city is massive, there's lots to do, and the city is modern, classical and extremely beautiful; you could rent a bike and wander around Recoleta or Palermo, two neighborhoods off the top of my head that are some of the best areas in the city).

After your week in BA you could fly to Cordoba on Thursday and see the super special, then drive to Carlos Paz (must be an hour or two) to have it as your base and start the rally on Friday.

Renting or having a car available is very important IMO, I have no clue about guided tours other than they're quite expensive. If you keep an eye on the itinerary and plan ahead you can manage yourself just fine (when I went it was my first time and I drove everywhere and everything went fine).

Some of the best moments of the trip are between stages, like the hike to El Cóndor through legitimately virgin terrain (the sense of vastness and freedom is like nothing else) or the walks around Carlos Paz or Tanti just getting to know the place. The service park was enjoyable too, and completely free (only complaint was that Pringles began giving away little cans and everyone rushed to the stand!).

Something I should mention is that the Fernet Branca/Parque Temático SSS is a total blast to go watch, but the access road is not prepared for the masses of spectators that flock over there, so getting in is a bit of a pain. Leaving isn't so bad from the SSS, but leaving Tanti is a total nightmare and you might take a couple hours to make it back to Carlos Paz if you go at the same time as everyone else. Be prepared also to park next to the road on your way to El Cóndor and hike straight down into the sierras past the guardrails. It looks daunting but you'll likely not be alone treading those untouched lands, and spectators that walk along with you won't hesitate to help you climb a stone or shuffle down a hill.

One last thing: unless, and I'm not even entirely sure, you have Personal as your mobile service provider, you won't have any mobile signal on the stages. If you know Spanish, take a radio to hear the AM broadcast to know any updates or information about the rally while you're there. Carlos Paz has excellent 4G connectivity.

I got a little carried away maybe, but I could go on and on about how amazing Rally Argentina was for me.

[wrc2017]

Meeke and Breen combo destroyed four chassis of C3 WRC
https://www.ewrc-results.com/cars/65-citroen-c3-wrc/
says alot about the car

[TWRC]

says alot about the car
What exactly? By this argument, the Xsara, the Focus, etc were bad cars, beacuse they all had been crashed?

[CWJ]

Has anyone visited Rally Argentina or Mexico and can recommend one of the two?

Haha, equal on highest fan level. You gonna need to go for both! A night at El Condor as well as a night in Guanajuato you will never forget.

[hype]

Haha, equal on highest fan level. You gonna need to go for both! A night at El Condor as well as a night in Guanajuato you will never forget.

Not making it easier for me there, haha!

[hype]

I got a little carried away maybe, but I could go on and on about how amazing Rally Argentina was for me.

Thanks for your amazing description, you're helping me a lot, especially with the tip to visit Buenos Aires.
Although I like nature more than cities, I'd love to see the Glaciares national park for example, but that's waaaay more South, Argentina is so big :-)
By freely roam around I meant the stages, like are marshals very strict or can you freely walk around the stage?

[journeyman racer]

A few months ago, some of you got sand in your jock because I dared to validate an F1/circuit racer's ability in comparison to Rally drivers. Since then, 5 time WRC Sebastien Ogier floundered in the DTM. Diminishing the notion of Rally drivers being any better.


But don't worry. Overall, Ogier is still the best driver in the world. Cars in circuit racing nowadays have had so much engineering input into them, that you kind of have to be a specialist to succeed even in the lower levels of professional motorsport.

[OHL]

A few months ago, some of you got sand in your jock because I dared to validate an F1/circuit racer's ability in comparison to Rally drivers. Since then, 5 time WRC Sebastien Ogier floundered in the DTM. Diminishing the notion of Rally drivers being any better.


But don't worry. Overall, Ogier is still the best driver in the world. Cars in circuit racing nowadays have had so much engineering input into them, that you kind of have to be a specialist to succeed even in the lower levels of professional motorsport.

It's too early to say. Any driver needs time to settle in and learn the nuances and fine points of a completely different discipline. Circuit racing and rallying share almost nothing in common so let's see after 15 races where he is.

[janvanvurpa]

A few months ago, some of you got sand in your jock because I dared to validate an F1/circuit racer's ability in comparison to Rally drivers. Since then, 5 time WRC Sebastien Ogier floundered in the DTM. Diminishing the notion of Rally drivers being any better.


But don't worry. Overall, Ogier is still the best driver in the world. Cars in circuit racing nowadays have had so much engineering input into them, that you kind of have to be a specialist to succeed even in the lower levels of professional motorsport.

Put down the beer and step away from the keyboard.

Ogier not doing well does not "diminish the notion of rally drivers" anything..

it says only that Ogier is not doing too well..and does not say at all why..
Is it because he has crazy ideas how to drive circuits?
Or maybe he has a big ego and makes a big deal about how he wants the car set up--and its wrong?
Maybe the team hates him and ignores him?
One could speculate for weeks...but its circuit racing, so who cares?

Maybe you should try some remedial logic classes evenings?

[Rally Power]

I got a little carried away maybe, but I could go on and on about how amazing Rally Argentina was for me.

Nice post mate; you’ll end convincing all us to visit Rally Argentina!

[steve.mandzij]

Thanks for your amazing description, you're helping me a lot, especially with the tip to visit Buenos Aires.
Although I like nature more than cities, I'd love to see the Glaciares national park for example, but that's waaaay more South, Argentina is so big :-)
By freely roam around I meant the stages, like are marshals very strict or can you freely walk around the stage?The stages and the roads leading to them are already naturally beautiful and swerve around the mountains, so that's already some nature for you! It might be a stretch to go south, but some low cost flights have begun lately so there might be a flight you can catch from the Patagonia straight to Cordoba.

I'm not so sure how strict the marshalls are because I didn't walk around the stages too much. In between runs they're very relaxed for sure, because I saw people wandering around, and while they were quite strict in Tanti before the 000 car came through I'm sure you can walk on the stage anyway. All the people at the watersplash on that stage must have walked on it because it's the only way to get there (I was a little too compliant with the stewards since it was my first time).

[journeyman racer]

It's too early to say. Any driver needs time to settle in and learn the nuances and fine points of a completely different discipline. Circuit racing and rallying share almost nothing in common so let's see after 15 races where he is.
yeah, I said that racing cars these day have so much input in them that you have to become a specialist in them to succeed. It wouldn't surprise me if guys like Alonso and Hamilton couldn't dominate DTM. The question whether Ogier will ever get the time to master a dtm car, and if it's even worthwhile doing when he has a harder discipline to deal with?


Put down the beer and step away from the keyboard.

Ogier not doing well does not "diminish the notion of rally drivers" anything..

it says only that Ogier is not doing too well..and does not say at all why..
Is it because he has crazy ideas how to drive circuits?
Or maybe he has a big ego and makes a big deal about how he wants the car set up--and its wrong?
Maybe the team hates him and ignores him?
One could speculate for weeks...but its circuit racing, so who cares?

Maybe you should try some remedial logic classes evenings?

Don't get upset. Did you not read all of the post?

[janvanvurpa]

yeah, I said that racing cars these day have so much input in them that you have to become a specialist in them to succeed. It wouldn't surprise me if guys like Alonso and Hamilton couldn't dominate DTM. The question whether Ogier will ever get the time to master a dtm car, and if it's even worthwhile doing when he has a harder discipline to deal with?



Don't get upset. Did you not read all of the post?


What a strange presumption. not at all upset..Just pointing out an error in logic...Not disagreeing that DTM is specialised skills just that because Ogier hasn't done well means anything beyond that. It doesn prove that DTM drivers, or track racers are anything..

This is a rally forum. DTM and how or what anybody does there has no relevance to anything this forum is about..
The roadracers vs rally drivers "debate" is a horse that was beaten to death decades ago.
Are you a roadracer?

[OHL]

This is a rally forum. DTM and how or what anybody does there has no relevance to anything this forum is about..

IMO, It's actually quite relevant to discuss Ogier and what he does in DTM. He is the current reigning World Champion in rally and he has shown time and time again that he has briallaint race craft. It would be quite normal to be curious how that would translate. I suspect it could translate well, if he goes all in and has a good team around him, but there are no guarantees. Time will tell but as long as he is driving a rally car, it's interesting to also follow other things he is doing.

[Sanremo]

Ogier did an impressive job at Spielberg. He actually finished race 1 in P12, overtaken by two cars just in the last lap because of him being a bit too reckless. Watch the end of race 1 from his onboard video...breathtaking. That man was on fire!!!

Watch from 1:01:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqx-3D-Uh2k

[Zeakiwi]

Paddon for Waimate50 - street race event - demonstration/ ride laps in the AP4+ Hyundai i20.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/sport/107868765/hayden-paddon-aims-to-put-on-a-show-at-waimate-50

The Targa next week - as at 17/ 10 does not list HP as a competitive section entry, so possibly a zero car in an i30N or in the targa tour section? co-drivers not mentioned. There were rumours of another competition hyundai being prepared.

[N.O.T]

Ogier did an impressive job at Spielberg. He actually finished race 1 in P12, overtaken by two cars just in the last lap because of him being a bit too reckless. Watch the end of race 1 from his onboard video...breathtaking. That man was on fire!!!

Watch from 1:01:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqx-3D-Uh2k

he qualified last in both races... i highly doubt someone on fire would score P12...

wake up... or watch tennis.

[tolx]

Hello back there.
Don't want to make seperate thread or Monte Carlo dedicated, so will ask here.
Proposed dates for RMC 2019 are 24-27.01. 2019.
Somehow, I had an idea for skiing trip and some rally watching too. Like, skiing for a few days in the beginning of the week, then watch rally on friday and saturday, ski for one more day and going back home on monday morning. Traveling by car, so would arrive on previous sunday evening. For skiing and accomodation, I found nice options in Briançon, closer to Italian border.
In this scenario, I would need to relay on spectating options provided by fellow forum users, as I won't have a time for recce by myself.
What are your thoughts about this idea and possible problems I would face?

[Melmisek]

Hello back there.
Don't want to make seperate thread or Monte Carlo dedicated, so will ask here.
Proposed dates for RMC 2019 are 24-27.01. 2019.
Somehow, I had an idea for skiing trip and some rally watching too. Like, skiing for a few days in the beginning of the week, then watch rally on friday and saturday, ski for one more day and going back home on monday morning. Traveling by car, so would arrive on previous sunday evening. For skiing and accomodation, I found nice options in Briançon, closer to Italian border.
In this scenario, I would need to relay on spectating options provided by fellow forum users, as I won't have a time for recce by myself.
What are your thoughts about this idea and possible problems I would face?

I do it the same way last 3 years. You may like this village. It is close to the stages.

https://www.orcieres.com/en/

[tommeke_B]

I do it the same way last 3 years. You may like this village. It is close to the stages.

https://www.orcieres.com/en/

Good location indeed, were there once too (not for skiing but just staying there for the rally). Good location to stay for the rally as well (except for sunday).

[AnttiL]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dpu_cNOXUAI0A7g.jpg

Once again, no one has refilled the beer in the fridge in Puuppola...

[Barreis]

Meeke could make Makinen looks like this all the time :D

[hype]

I do it the same way last 3 years. You may like this village. It is close to the stages.

https://www.orcieres.com/en/

I stayed in Superdévoluy once:

https://www.google.de/maps/place/Superd%C3%A9voluy,+05250+D%C3%A9voluy,+Frankreich/@44.6784929,5.8511143,11.25z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x12cb3aecc7c6ec2f:0xa0819a8982e4d 00!8m2!3d44.6771389!4d5.926679

There's a big skiing area.
Pretty close to Gap, but still a while to drive.

[EstWRC]

I would like to see this brand in the WRC...the car would look badass with the current aero rules IMO :bounce:

https://d2d0b2rxqzh1q5.cloudfront.net/sv/1.67/dir/a0c/image/a0c68d3db3e28d6e8ff06b94474ebdd9.jpg

[deephouse]

They don't have the money to do it. But it would be awesome see Italians too in the championship.

[steve.mandzij]

I thought this would be the correct thread:

Who have you guys voted for co-driver of the year? It's tough to decide for me because I don't have a really good criteria for it; I was tempted to choose Elena for still being up to the task, like Loeb, but I chose Miikka Antilla for keeping sane next to Latvala this year!

[AL14]

They don't have the money to do it. But it would be awesome see Italians too in the championship.

Alfa has the money, the don't have the will.

[N.O.T]

Alfa has the money, the don't have the will.

Money owed to banks are not money...

[itix]

Found this on the web, too good not to post...

https://mobile.twitter.com/paulmcilroy/status/1058383832037158912?fbclid=IwAR19F-Q3_SFbFXvoDjPEIbqcrLNT7hAQ69fWNnGKa32ndKDWOtpOH9HB VA8

[AL14]

Money owed to banks are not money...

Which debt are you talking about? FCA has no more industrial net debt since june 2018.
Anyways they have the capability to invest in WRC if they want, just as they do in F1 partnering Sauber.

[NickRally]

I find it so funny how health and safety obsessed the western society is, directly affecting the rallying world, and yet when it comes to laying hands on people’s money, the government, at least here in the UK, is perfectly all right letting people play with explosives and cashing in in the process (ref. the 5th November madness).

[Rally Power]

Already mentioned?
https://jalopnik.com/the-worlds-coolest-volvos-are-for-sale-1830283079

[gorganl2000]

not sure if this was posted as yet and if this is the right section, but anyways
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFshyY8RXVw

latest Colin Clark kitchen table

[sonnybobiche]

I find it so funny how health and safety obsessed the western society is, directly affecting the rallying world, and yet when it comes to laying hands on people’s money, the government, at least here in the UK, is perfectly all right letting people play with explosives and cashing in in the process (ref. the 5th November madness).

It turns out that politicians are really quite fond of other people's money.

[krissucool]

Out of curiosity, can anyone count the times top3 drivers have gotten advantage of team orders this season. I mean late to time control, slowing down before the end and so on. I think Toyota is at 0, has Hyunday done it? Does not pop into my mind currently. M-Sport must me at around 8-9 time by now?

[Tarmop]

Um, Latvala Turkey, Latvala after his tire went in Spain (although yes, that was logical)...

[skarderud]

Since neuville, again, shit on his legs, with bold statements before the last race and bin it, is it time to build the car after Mikkelsens likings and give him more attention than this year? 3 year in the row neuville really stands out as an not so likely person.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Sulland]

Since neuville, again, shit on his legs, with bold statements before the last race and bin it, is it time to build the car after Mikkelsens likings and give him more attention than this year? 3 year in the row neuville really stands out as an not so likely person.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

That, or they will let him go.
He will have to swap team to get his speed back.

Ogier have now gotten the Ford to his liking, and them two shared a Polo a few years back, and both were quick in that one. So Ford might actually be a good solution for Andreas.

[Mintexmemory]

If after being the nearly man for 7 or more years Mikkelsen still isn’t convincing as a WDC candidate, I can’t see Malcolm giving him a seat unless he has a big pile of cash when he next visits Cumbria.

[mknight]

Mikkelsen has done his 4th full season this year, how does that count to 7 I wonder?

WRC is full of "nearly men" in fact the only not "nearly men" are two Sebastiens.
Latvala has been a nearly man for 12 full seasons and was getting beaten by Mikkelsen in same car.
Meeke has never had the reliability needed and his best result in WDC is 5th, again beaten by Mikkelsen in same car on tarmac in his first outing.

Hyundai has to decide whether they went to spend money and time to adapt the car to him. If not then there is not much point hiring him in the first place.
This year specially on tarmac thy simply didn't use resources on it. I dare say it cost them manu title.

[deephouse]

They could all 3 share the cars... Let's say this: Neuville all rounds, then each 9 rallies (Mikkelsen, Paddon, Sordo) and Huttunen one rally to fill the gap. Fair to all three and no need to add extra 4th car.

[GravelBen]

Mikkelsen has done his 4th full season this year, how does that count to 7 I wonder?

He had quite a few nearly-full seasons as well which you're conveniently ignoring for the sake of talking him up as usual. His first WRC rally was GB 2006, 12 years ago and 2 years before Ogier's first. He was very young then for sure and maybe should have learnt in lower classes for longer as he didn't do well during those first few years, but its not like you can claim he has any lack of experience.

[Rallyper]

Mikkelsen absolutely the 2018 disappointment. Second should be Evans, third Breen.

Full seat to Paddon next year is only natural for Huyndai.

[Mintexmemory]

He had quite a few nearly-full seasons as well which you're conveniently ignoring for the sake of talking him up as usual. His first WRC rally was GB 2006, 12 years ago and 2 years before Ogier's first. He was very young then for sure and maybe should have learnt in lower classes for longer as he didn't do well during those first few years, but its not like you can claim he has any lack of experience.
Thanks GB - I’d have said much the same. VW made him the anointed one giving him tons of Polo testing and the team building year in the Skoda with Ogier. 2 wins in 4 years with the class car in the game was a pretty accurate reflection of his abilities.

[gorganl2000]

here are my conclusions based on the past few seasons and up to the just concluded 2018 season:
Ogier, Neuville, Tanak ---these 3 have a reasonable chance at 2019 WDC and beyond. i think Tanak (mental/strategy) and Neuville (speed/mental) can both improve a bit more to make them even better. Ogier is a champion and knows what he needs to do to remain one, he needs to somehow keep motivated and mentally strong if he wishes to retain his championship next year and thereafter

Lappi, Suninen --- hard to say yet, need more driving time (full season or two) to fully develop and see where they really are in the scheme of things.

Paddon---i'm not sure if to put him in above or below section

Mikkelsen, Sordo, Ostberg, Breen, Evans, Latvala, Meeke --- each of them has some driving and/or personal obstacles to overcome to elevate themselves to the "next" level. Each of them is a unique case. If they don't improve, they will be forever be seen as number #2 drivers for one reason or the other.

Loeb --- he still has the driving ability/skill to be competitive, a true talent even at his age, but no desire to compete for a full season and i respect that. I believe he can still win individual rallies or get podiums when he does compete

[mknight]

He had quite a few nearly-full seasons as well which you're conveniently ignoring for the sake of talking him up as usual. His first WRC rally was GB 2006, 12 years ago and 2 years before Ogier's first. He was very young then for sure and maybe should have learnt in lower classes for longer as he didn't do well during those first few years, but its not like you can claim he has any lack of experience.

In 2006-2008 what they did is they basically paid him WRC car to learn, skipping all lower classes completely. Then went back there when his father lost a lot of money and couldn't pay for it any more.

Thing is he did win the IRC in 2011-2012 against Neuville among others so how was he nearly man then? At that time it was the series where young drivers drove, cause there just weren't WRC seats for them.
Had first full WRC season in 2014. 2018-2014 is still not 7. While you are free to accuse me of talking him up, I hate when people throw wrong numbers just like that on things that take 5s to check.

What I also find really special about Mikkelsen this year is how much flak he gets here for the simplest things compared with other drivers that are in the 2nd/3rd category (which gorganl2000 correctly defined). Sure compared to pre-season expectations this season is terrible and the speed of the car+driver combination on tarmac is ridiculous compared with his speed on same surface in other cars. But stuff like comparing him to Al Quassimi or suggesting Paddon replaces him on tarmac.......ok.

[Mk2 RS2000]

What I also find really special about Mikkelsen this year is how much flak he gets here for the simplest things compared with other drivers that are in the 2nd/3rd category (which gorganl2000 correctly defined).[/b] Sure compared to pre-season expectations this season is terrible and the speed of the car+driver combination on tarmac is ridiculous compared with his speed on same surface in other cars. But stuff like comparing him to Al Quassimi or suggesting Paddon replaces him on tarmac.......ok.

Sure he has had a poor season with reliability, quite similar in fact with Paddon's run in 2017 where amongst other things he had numerous power steering failures during the season but with no public comments from the driver.

[steve.mandzij]

In 2006-2008 what they did is they basically paid him WRC car to learn, skipping all lower classes completely. Then went back there when his father lost a lot of money and couldn't pay for it any more.

Thing is he did win the IRC in 2011-2012 against Neuville among others so how was he nearly man then? At that time it was the series where young drivers drove, cause there just weren't WRC seats for them.
Had first full WRC season in 2014. 2018-2014 is still not 7. While you are free to accuse me of talking him up, I hate when people throw wrong numbers just like that on things that take 5s to check.

What I also find really special about Mikkelsen this year is how much flak he gets here for the simplest things compared with other drivers that are in the 2nd/3rd category (which gorganl2000 correctly defined). Sure compared to pre-season expectations this season is terrible and the speed of the car+driver combination on tarmac is ridiculous compared with his speed on same surface in other cars. But stuff like comparing him to Al Quassimi or suggesting Paddon replaces him on tarmac.......ok.The thing is he's been a horrible driver when things went his way mechanically too. His wet pace in Spain was pitiful, slower than R5s.

[N.O.T]

Any suggestions what to do until 2019 season starts ?

Be useful for once you dogs !

[dupanton]

Any suggestions what to do until 2019 season starts ?

Be useful for once you dogs !

Cancel your internet subscription?

[Rallyper]

Any suggestions what to do until 2019 season starts ?

Be useful for once you dogs !

It´s fun having bartalks sometimes. And a beer or two...

[T16]

Any suggestions what to do until 2019 season starts ?

Be useful for once you dogs !

Watched the TT review DVD (again) last night... that fills a few gaps.

[Rallyper]

Where is the WRC rally Gala situated? Should be in Aus, I know, but timing seems very late at sight... looking at Twitter and all the awards.

Thought I´d pop in, but it probably is too remote for me?

[Tarmop]

Museum of Contemporary Art, Sydney

[Eli]

Watch 2004-2012 WRC seasons just so you can throw unimportant facts next year?

[Franky]

Any suggestions what to do until 2019 season starts ?

Be useful for once you dogs !

Get a dog.

[N.O.T]

very low energy efforts so far (apart from elis whose answer was a bit better)...

you disappoint me plebs...

[deephouse]

Hang out here with us or how you call ''useless dogs''.

[swanny]

Count down the days until we can watch the reporters complain about the conditions they are facing in Peru with occasional glimpses of some kind of event going on in the background......

Will be watching some Aussie touring cars this weekend before they also go on holiday, for 4 months!

[AnttiL]

If anyone’s interested in some geeky statistics of this year’s routes, read on my blog https://itgetsfasternow.wordpress.com/2018/11/21/2018-wrc-season-wrap-up/

[janvanvurpa]

Any suggestions what to do until 2019 season starts ?




Hold your breath.

[sollitt]

Any suggestions what to do until 2019 season starts ?Why not write a book? You could title it " How useless village team of nobodies, potato heads and useless dogs won the world championship".

[rp]

Why not write a book? You could title it " How useless village team of nobodies, potato heads and useless dogs won the world championship".

That was good! :)

[N.O.T]

Why not write a book? You could title it " How useless village team of nobodies, potato heads and useless dogs won the world championship".

i am already on it... but the title is a bit different..

"how an Estonian carried a sack of finish potatos on his back towards the championship"

[OHL]

i am already on it... but the title is a bit different..

"how an Estonian carried a sack of finish potatos on his back towards the championship"

What exactly is a finish potato? Is it like finish line, only it's a potato?
Oh, Finish potatoes are the new chicanes!

[GravelBen]

Maybe its the new trophy for Rally Finland... they hand out potatoes on the podium.

[Zeakiwi]

Has the WRC put out their cook book with recipes yet?

A dish from the countries that are visited and favourite recipes from the wrc co/ drivers.

https://youtu.be/kuD9xerGuBc (Reindeer - Helsinki style)

[dimviii]

Neuville interviewd while piloting a heli
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICJi9MrL0a0&fbclid=IwAR2QYBGEM6kWgv2YKiErrqRgiLJnHpinT_ZyVlKbU O5uJPh4iRMBy2SIMLw

[AnttiL]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtArN2fXcAEp83n.jpg:large

when you see it... :D

[deephouse]

Nobody is watching the trophies.

[ToughMac]

Nobody is watching the trophies.

I'm afraid they are, all two of them!!

[AnttiL]

https://www.rally-maps.com/RAC-Rally-1986
https://www.rally-maps.com/RAC-Rally-1991
https://www.rally-maps.com/RAC-Rally-1996
https://www.rally-maps.com/RAC-Rally-1997
https://www.rally-maps.com/Rally-of-Great-Britain-1998
https://www.rally-maps.com/Rally-of-Great-Britain-1999

Finished mapping some older editions of RAC Rally. 1986, 1991 and 1996-1999. If anyone has maps from the missing years, let me know, I want to fill the gaps.

[dimviii]

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_11_2018/post-4717-0-44726000-1543500065.jpg

https://twitter.com/AndreaKaiser

[Zeakiwi]

Skoda's going to need a bigger trophy cabinet.

[Zeakiwi]

Neuville interviewd while piloting a heli
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICJi9MrL0a0&fbclid=IwAR2QYBGEM6kWgv2YKiErrqRgiLJnHpinT_ZyVlKbU O5uJPh4iRMBy2SIMLw

Hyundai need to re-write the contract to prevent TN flying/ flying in that type of helicopter.

[the sniper]

Finished mapping some older editions of RAC Rally. 1986, 1991 and 1996-1999. If anyone has maps from the missing years, let me know, I want to fill the gaps.

Wonderful work Antti, thanks!

[Coach 2]

Norwegian TV2 Sport2 now has 1 hour from each of Rally Monte-Sweden-Mexico-Corsica-Argentina-Portugal and ends with 35 minutes from WRC Galla in Sydney.
When I write this we are in the middle of the hour from Monte.

[SubaruNorway]

Johan Kristoffersson will drive Romjulsrally in Norway December 29th in the Polo R5
https://www.norsk-rally.com/index.php/10-uncategorised/11234-johan-kristoffersson-med-vw-polo-r5-i-romjulsrally?fbclid=IwAR2AWxWS3N75XwxcKzUG-h8FmxBurcXObiyiFIiRdT27fdwHxEXLKIlBdPI

[Mk2 RS2000]

It is going to be another epic event.

http://www.otagorally.com/home/news/674-fans-get-their-wish-as-ostberg-to-return-down-under

http://www.otagorally.com/home/news/665-fast-frank-and-baby-blue-back-for-more-in-2019

[the sniper]

Does anybody know what plans Eerik Pietarinen (Finnish Champion) has for 2019? Or what his aim is at least?

[AnttiL]

Does anybody know what plans Eerik Pietarinen (Finnish Champion) has for 2019? Or what his aim is at least?

No idea, I'm afraid he'll turn into the new Sebastian Lindholm or Juha Salo, just winning Finnish Championships endlessly with no proper plan to go abroad.

[rp]

Does anybody know what plans Eerik Pietarinen (Finnish Champion) has for 2019? Or what his aim is at least?

He said that some WRC2 events at least. Rather sure that his season will start in Sweden. No Finnish Championship anymore, because his younger brother Henrik (SM2 Champion 2018) is aiming to drive TGS`s Fabia R5 in the Ralli SM next year.

[Rallyper]

He said that some WRC2 events at least. Rather sure that his season will start in Sweden. No Finnish Championship anymore, because his younger brother Henrik (SM2 Champion 2018) is aiming to drive TGS`s Fabia R5 in the Ralli SM next year.

It´s the right thing if he wants to go further. No way he should waste any more money winning Finnish Championship. Let´s hope for a successfull start of an international career.

[dimviii]

Neuville before 18 years
https://twitter.com/HartusvuoriWRC/status/1071087616345415680

[dodge33cymru]

not sure where to put this, but hope this takes off - RGT really deserves to become 'a thing'

http://www.thedrive.com/accelerator/25265/porsche-just-needs-100-orders-to-make-the-cayman-rally-car-a-reality

[Essaj]

Once again the co-driver trophy is smaller then drivers or teams trophy. https://twitter.com/fia/status/1071146526523736064

[SubaruNorway]

Ex rally driver fits in bar talk thread i guess.

If you somehow have missed Kimi tonight, here it is!
https://twitter.com/Insidef1/status/1071134784707948544

[dnb]

Once again the co-driver trophy is smaller then drivers or teams trophy. https://twitter.com/fia/status/1071146526523736064
That probably why Ingrassia is not smiling
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dt154GvXQAAXsTF.jpg

[stefanvv]

It's pretty, but difficult to drink wine from it.

[dimviii]

https://twitter.com/KiwiWRCfan/status/1071900500713324545

[Rally Power]

not sure where to put this, but hope this takes off - RGT really deserves to become 'a thing'
http://www.thedrive.com/accelerator/25265/porsche-just-needs-100-orders-to-make-the-cayman-rally-car-a-reality

It’d be great to have the Cayman rallying; 100 orders may seem a lot, but there’s a huge number of Porsche collectors always eager to get exclusive models, not caring about racing or rallying them (read somewhere that was the case of half of the 911 SCRS Gr. B production).

Btw, we usually talk about RGT here: https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?21279-GT-C

[Rally Power]

Besides how pissed off he was about the trophy, Ingrassia was also noticed for his shoes…
https://www.facebook.com/paulfraikinchampions/videos/2338994949701543/

[Essaj]

Has there been any news about the kid who got hurt in Wales in the motorcycle accident before the final stage of the event? did he make it? :/

[Rally Power]

https://europe.autonews.com/suppliers/ex-porsche-ceo-wiedeking-backs-effort-delay-death-combustion-engine

A new hope for ICE’s? Fingers crossed!

[Francis44]

https://europe.autonews.com/suppliers/ex-porsche-ceo-wiedeking-backs-effort-delay-death-combustion-engine

A new hope for ICE’s? Fingers crossed!

I think it will be several years before you see the last ICE.

I bet in 15 years time 60% of those so called "electrified" cars will still have some sort of ICE in them.

Anyway, every technology which indeed lowers emissions is welcome and I hope they get the funding.

[NickRally]

https://europe.autonews.com/suppliers/ex-porsche-ceo-wiedeking-backs-effort-delay-death-combustion-engine

A new hope for ICE’s? Fingers crossed!

They make some very bold claims, like up to 30% fuel consumption reduction, which equates to ~43% increase in efficiency from just the burning process, that seems like an unrealistically high number to me, but even if that is true and not just a marketing talk, and if they find the investment and interest required to implement it on a large scale, it will only slightly delay the inevitable. Even forgetting the sometimes dubious claims about the "cleanliness" of the electric cars (given the current state of electricity generation), and clumsiness of batteries aside, the electric motors are a much better propulsion system from pure dynamics point of view and only lose to the ICE's (in my passionate soul at least) on the sound front. But considering that the modern ICE sounds are so tamed and nothing like the 20, 30, 40 (or pick your number) years ago, then it makes for a pretty unfavorable future for the ICE's.

[Rally Power]

They make some very bold claims, like up to 30% fuel consumption reduction, which equates to ~43% increase in efficiency from just the burning process, that seems like an unrealistically high number to me, but even if that is true and not just a marketing talk, and if they find the investment and interest required to implement it on a large scale, it will only slightly delay the inevitable. Even forgetting the sometimes dubious claims about the "cleanliness" of the electric cars (given the current state of electricity generation), and clumsiness of batteries aside, the electric motors are a much better propulsion system from pure dynamics point of view and only lose to the ICE's (in my passionate soul at least) on the sound front. But considering that the modern ICE sounds are so tamed and nothing like the 20, 30, 40 (or pick your number) years ago, then it makes for a pretty unfavorable future for the ICE's.

Yep, it sounds a bit optimistic, but I still believe the right approach would be to continue ICE’s improvement alongside a huge development of the hydrogen tech; current EV’s are mostly a myth: the CO2 is just moving from cars exhausts to coal fired power plants chimneys (China and the other’s will never give up coal; even the US is now resisting).

[Franky]

Recently came across an article about the electrical power consumption of ICT (Information and Communication Technology). Some numbers for context, in a 2013 report, it was stated that the ICT annually uses the same amount of power as Germany and Japan combined produce. Another site claims that ICT accounts for 8-10% of European electricity consumption and up to 4% of its carbon emissions.

It's predicted that with the arrival of 5G it will most likely increase a lot more. Some projections predict that in 2040 ICT's global carbon footprint could be 50% of the current transportation carbon footprint.

So is our love for internet the next issue that's slowly showing itself on the horizon?

[Rally Power]

So is our love for internet the next issue that's slowly showing itself on the horizon?

Cow farts seems to be a more urgent issue... https://www.forbes.com/sites/samlemonick/2017/09/29/scientists-underestimated-how-bad-cow-farts-are/#67a2be6578a9

[Mirek]

Cow farts seems to be a more urgent issue... https://www.forbes.com/sites/samlemonick/2017/09/29/scientists-underestimated-how-bad-cow-farts-are/#67a2be6578a9

Twenty years a go South Park claimed so :D

[dimviii]

Merry Christmas guys!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181224/d0666459f6efc5bef4e7095c863a786e.jpg

[EstWRC]

Dimviii, I didn’t know that you are Latvala.


Merry Christmas everyone!

[dimviii]

Dimviii, I didn’t know that you are Latvala.




http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_12_2018/post-4892-0-38070600-1545738341.jpg

[dimviii]

Ηappy new year guys!!
Best wishes tou you, and your family!!

[NickRally]

Happy new year to all forum members!

http://geocities.ws/rallytech/greetings/happy_new_year_2019.JPG

(original winter image credits: Eyvind Brynildsen ‏@E_Brynildsen , Rally Sweden 2017 recce)

[Rallyper]

Take care everybody! See you next year!

[masa90]

Hi everyone! Did not really know to which topic to write, so sorry if it came to wrong place. I am thinking of coming to spectate rally sweden, but car is not an option for me sadly. Is there any chance to take public transport to stages or any rallybus or tours? Stages either in norway or sweden would be ok, not sure if i have time for full rally now. Thanks in advance !!!

[Allez Andruet]

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_12_2018/post-4892-0-38070600-1545738341.jpg

I have to say Miikka Anttila looks incredibly hot without a helmet. No wonder why Jari-Matti's been with him for so many years.

Happy new year for y'all! I've enjoyed reading the forum in 2018, let's keep it up in 2019!

[AnttiL]

Everyone, have an awesome 2019!

[deephouse]

from my side happy new year. I hope that this forum will go in 2019 with positive and support thinking.

[Rallyper]

Hi everyone! Did not really know to which topic to write, so sorry if it came to wrong place. I am thinking of coming to spectate rally sweden, but car is not an option for me sadly. Is there any chance to take public transport to stages or any rallybus or tours? Stages either in norway or sweden would be ok, not sure if i have time for full rally now. Thanks in advance !!!

Have a look at Rally Sweden topic.

[KiwiWRCfan]

Some things happen fast, some things happen slowly
Nandan already removed on this page https://motorsport.hyundai.com/team/key-people/
While Paddon & Marshall are still on this page but Loeb & Elena are not yet added https://motorsport.hyundai.com/team/crews/
May take several drinks before this starts to make sense.

[deephouse]

Some things happen fast, some things happen slowly
Nandan already removed on this page https://motorsport.hyundai.com/team/key-people/
While Paddon & Marshall are still on this page but Loeb & Elena are not yet added https://motorsport.hyundai.com/team/crews/
May take several drinks before this starts to make sense.

I think he is waiting for call. Mikkelsen is on the edge and that edge is calling Monte. Still Paddon could swap his seat for a few outings...

[dimviii]

Loeb Ogier tests
https://youtu.be/q38JbhuCZB4

[TypeR]

Loeb Ogier tests
https://youtu.be/q38JbhuCZB4

Aero seems to be working ;)

[stefanvv]

Loeb Ogier tests
https://youtu.be/q38JbhuCZB4

There it goes away Nose end first.

[Rallyper]

Loeb Ogier tests
https://youtu.be/q38JbhuCZB4

Hahaha!

[gorganl2000]

the "helicopter" footage is quite amusing

[RAS007]

Loeb Ogier tests
https://youtu.be/q38JbhuCZB4

These guys deserve a medal. That was hilarious.

[Allez Andruet]

1702

- be careful Esapekka, that Budar guy isn't the nicest of team managers.
- wait till you meet the duo of Mäkinen and Miettinen, Kris. Just wait.

[KiwiWRCfan]

Is it too soon for entries in the 2019 N.O.T. photos with Autumn colors award ? https://scontent.fakl4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/48364149_1201095793382468_2946067576137973760_o.jp g?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent.fakl4-1.fna&oh=fd528c1a49b9543aaff1053e97a66212&oe=5CB70223

[dimviii]

Hyundai Motorsport

#10YearChallenge Have @SebastienLoeb & @DanosElena changed much?�� #WRC #HMSGOfficial
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dxcia03X4AAixjl.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxcD3v5X4AQKZwO.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxcD3v7WkAAi6zR.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dxcia0vX0AA04DU.jpg

[Rallyper]

Now, I give a couple of beers for the person who fixes the points in Pickems...

[AnttiL]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dx_6e4GWsAE4v5d.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dx_6e4EX0AAuLlH.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dx_6e4DXgAcC7j2.jpg

Where's the beer?

[NickRally]

This night 36 years ago, we had the last 2wd winner of the Monte and if I remember correctly, the conditions were not dissimilar to this year's edition, so I was thinking how cool it would be if we had less restrictive R-GT class with vehicles capable of being on the pace of the WRC cars, even if they were not eligible for overall honours.

https://cdn-5.motorsport.com/images/mgl/YX4mEG5Y/s8/wrc-rally-monte-carlo-1983-walter-rohrl-christian-geistdorfer-lancia-rally-037.jpg

[dupanton]

This night 36 years ago, we had the last 2wd winner of the Monte and if I remember correctly, the conditions were not dissimilar to this year's edition, so I was thinking how cool it would be if we had less restrictive R-GT class with vehicles capable of being on the pace of the WRC cars, even if they were not eligible for overall honours.

https://cdn-5.motorsport.com/images/mgl/YX4mEG5Y/s8/wrc-rally-monte-carlo-1983-walter-rohrl-christian-geistdorfer-lancia-rally-037.jpg

Impossible. in Belgium and France the cars aren't very limited, but can't compete with the top R5 cars. So competing with WRC is impossible.

[Mirek]

Impossible. in Belgium and France the cars aren't very limited, but can't compete with the top R5 cars. So competing with WRC is impossible.

The problem with that idea is that those 2WD gr.B Lancias 037 were not semi-production GTs. They were pure purpose-built race cars. In this point of view F2 kit cars were closer to them them than the current heavy GTs.

Also in that time the 4WD cars were young and suffered from issues which have long been overcome such as massive understeering or no chance to use handbrake turns on asphalt.

For sure it would be possible to win certain asphalt events with 2WD car if suitable rules are created but what you'll get would be nothing close to the production GT but rather some crazy prototype which would cost even more than WRC.

[AnttiL]

Dream on :)

It's interesting comparing the Monte 1983 and 1984 results. In 1983 Röhrl won with Lancia, Audis got only 4 stage wins. Then in 1984 Audis took a 1-2-3 and Lancia had only two stage wins and the best RWD car was 24 minutes off the winner.

To develop your idea further, maybe some RWD or FWD cars could be made competitible with the new R4 cars? So we could have something like the early Group A where 4WD cars are a bit underpowered and overweight, but the 2WD cars have less grip.

[Mirek]

This night 36 years ago, we had the last 2wd winner of the Monte and if I remember correctly, the conditions were not dissimilar to this year's edition, so I was thinking how cool it would be if we had less restrictive R-GT class with vehicles capable of being on the pace of the WRC cars, even if they were not eligible for overall honours.

https://cdn-5.motorsport.com/images/mgl/YX4mEG5Y/s8/wrc-rally-monte-carlo-1983-walter-rohrl-christian-geistdorfer-lancia-rally-037.jpg

If I am not mistaken this photo is taken on stage St. Pierreville - Antraigues at the village St. Julien du Gua. This stage isn't being run anymore. I remember I visited it in 2010 and 2011 IRC editions when it was 45 km long (Mikkelsen crashed there once just after the start I think)...

[NickRally]

Impossible. in Belgium and France the cars aren't very limited, but can't compete with the top R5 cars. So competing with WRC is impossible.

Humanly impossible :)? I love challenges.



The problem with that idea is that those 2WD gr.B Lancias 037 were not semi-production GTs. They were pure purpose-built race cars. In this point of view F2 kit cars were closer to them them than the current heavy GTs.

Also in that time the 4WD cars were young and suffered from issues which have long been overcome such as massive understeering or no chance to use handbrake turns on asphalt.

For sure it would be possible to win certain asphalt events with 2WD car if suitable rules are created but what you'll get would be nothing close to the production GT but rather some crazy prototype which would cost even more than WRC.


Granted, it is not going to be cheap, but that is not my point. I think it will be cool and I would relish the challenge if the right opportunity came about :)

[Mirek]

Granted, it is not going to be cheap, but that is not my point. I think it will be cool and I would relish the challenge if the right opportunity came about :)

But why would somebody do that for 2-3 events in the calendar?

[NickRally]

But why would somebody do that for 2-3 events in the calendar?

Mirek, I appreciate that a factory is unlikely to do this, but money does not have to come from a factory, motorsport is booming at private level and there a reasonable number of potential scenarios where a privateer can get involved as long as the right environment is established, which once again I appreciate, is unlikely.

[Mirek]

I think that it's not worth the effort. Creation of such environment also needs a lot of work to be done by FIA and the promoter. I prefer if they are building on what already works well instead of wasting time and resources on experiments with very questionably outcome.

[NickRally]

I understand your point.

[Rally Power]

911’s won lots of events (and even championships) in Spain against S2000 or R5 cars, until they got a huge restrictor. It’d be nice to have a fair BoP allowing GT’s to battle R5 cars in national series and even on WRC tarmac events, but WRC cars should always remain as the pinnacle class of the sport. This said and once WRC cars are purposed build protos, it’d be fantastic to allow future WRC cars (always 4wd) to have a more diversified look, allowing GT or Coupe shaped cars.

[NickRally]

911’s won lots of events (and even championships) in Spain against S2000 or R5 cars, until they got a huge restrictor. It’d be nice to have a fair BoP allowing GT’s to battle R5 cars in national series and even on WRC tarmac events, but WRC cars should always remain as the pinnacle class of the sport. This said and once WRC cars are purposed build protos, it’d be fantastic to allow future WRC cars (always 4wd) to have a more diversified look, allowing GT or Coupe shaped cars.

I know I am biased, but I would support this ;)

[AnttiL]

As a route enthusiast I sometimes enjoy planning my own versions of WRC rallies. After archiving old RAC rallies I came up with the idea of planning a version of the current Rally GB that would be situated in Northern England and contain the classic Kielder and Grizedale stages. I just don't know anything about the roads in the area other than what was driven 30 years ago, and nothing about how the roads are today, or how the current political situation would interfere with driving a stage or two in Scotland. But here's something I came up with

Version 1: Newcastle-based

Thursday: Ceremonial start in Carlisle
Friday: Morning leg consisting of Comb and ~30 km Grizedale (combining the old East and West versions). Repeat, drive towards Newcastle and do one run of Stang on the way towards afternoon service in Newcastle. Evening leg has Hamsterley, repeat of Stang and then again Hamsterley, super special in the late evening.
Saturday: Three stages in Kielder, for example Pundershaw, Wauchope and Redesdale. Midday service in Newcastle and repeat of the stages.
Sunday: Two ~10 km stages in Yorkshire – versions of Gale Rigg and Dalby with latter as power stage.

In this version the long liaisons on Sunday morning and Friday midday bother me, so I came up with another one

Version 2: Carlisle-based
Thursday: Super special in Carlisle
Friday: Morning leg again Comb and 30 km Grizedale, both repeated, then midday service on Carlisle. Afternoon leg on the North side with a stage combining Twiglees and Castle O'Er (20 km) and 10 km Craik. In the middle single-run 10 km Kershope and then repeats of Castle O'Er and Craik.
Saturday: Kielder, as in version 1
Sunday: Stang and Hamsterley, latter as shorter version and as power stage

If we could find more stages in the area between Carlisle and Grizedale we could base the whole Friday in that area and have instead Sunday in Scotland to make the timetable looser and have even less liaisons.

If you know about stages run in the area, drop a comment :)

[Mirek]

I have to admit I also sometimes build myself stages or even whole rallies (including virtual WRC event) on the maps of my country (and since nearly every field road here has its street view on several map servers it's pretty easy to find great roads which will sadly never happen to become rally stages).

[AnttiL]

I have to admit I also sometimes build myself stages or even whole rallies (including virtual WRC event) on the maps of my country (and since nearly every field road here has its street view on several map servers it's pretty easy to find great roads which will sadly never happen to become rally stages).

Yeah, obviously I've planned more routes for Rally Finland, where I know more about the roads, more roads used in local rallies and their state today. It's a fun puzzle to try to make a route that fits the current limitations (like 80 km of kilometres per leg). I can only imagine how complicated it is when you have also the marketing side and road permissions in the equation as well.

[bearclaw]

Good to know that there are other crazy rally nerds around which are planning virtual rally events or virtual WRC events. I thought to myself you are a bit crazy - what are you doing – but good to know I am not alone. For me it’s ok – because other people are playing virtual football games for hours also.

I am from Austria - so I have done a remake WRC version of the infamous Austrian Alpine Rally (Alpenfahrt). This rally is one year older than Monte Carlo. The virtual rally has nothing really to do with the old Alpenfahrt despite a few stages from the 1973 version. It’s just the iconic name.

It’s a mixed event with one day on gravel (Friday) and two days on asphalt (Saturday, Sunday). At the moment the rally complies the FIA rules, but the FIA wants to ban mixed events in the near future.

It’s a combination of three existing events and some old gravel stages which were not be used for rallying since a while. Based in Linz (population 200.000, infrastructure is not too bad, hotel rooms, int. airport, big asphalt area for service and parc ferme in the city center, infrastructure for press conference, media room and rally HQ is there)

Thursday: Super Special in Linz (3,50km style mixture of Harju stage in Finland and the old RAC park stages. Not that crap SSS style like Germany 2018)

Friday: gravel stages from the Waldviertel Rally, old Semperit Rally, old Alpenfahrt Rally 1973 (115km) remote service or just a tyre fitting zone at Horn, unfortunately a long liaison to get there from the rally HQ (a bit like in Wales nowadays)

Saturday: crossing the border to the Czech Republic. 2 loops of 3 stages from the Cesky Krumlov Rally (Malonty, Kohout-Jan, Rožmitál-Rožmberk) - between back to service in Linz, in the afternoon loop there is a SSS at Ceske Budejovice integrated plus a time control at the main square of Ceske Budejovice including an autograph session. (150km)

Sunday: 2 loops of 3 stages from the Jänner Rally. Power Stage finish near Freistadt, finish at Freistadt Main Sqaure. (75km)

I am a bit worried because maybe some special stages are far too fast for the modern WRC cars and for our Czech friends I guess I have to rethink about the rally name.

In total about 344km with 22 special stages. I have to look a bit closer regarding the 25% special stage rule. Resumed for the virtual rally – the roads are all there, the infrastructure is there but to get it all together for a real event to get permission and stuff like that and organize it. It’s impossible.

The detailed intenary with stage times and so on is under way.

[EstWRC]

Fake WRC Driver
‏@fakeWRCdriver
2h2 hours ago

More
I love my car! PETesting has gone well mainly because I just love the car. Did I mention how much I love the car? Very much looking forward to Rally Sweden because I love my awesome car.

HELLO OLD TEAM ARE YOU HEARING THIS?

I do love this car, it's fantastic... (1/7)

https://twitter.com/fakeWRCdriver/status/1091408164493410305

lol

[the sniper]

Saturday: Three stages in Kielder, for example Pundershaw, Wauchope and Redesdale. Midday service in Newcastle and repeat of the stages.

I think Bewshaugh, Pundershaw and Shepherdshield, plus maybe Falstone, are the best of the core Kielder stages. I'd put Wauchope into your V2 Friday instead.


Sunday: Two ~10 km stages in Yorkshire – versions of Gale Rigg and Dalby with latter as power stage.

While Dalby is the most famous stage name in Yorkshire rallying, I think Gale Rigg, Cropton and Langdale are actually better for an event like Rally GB. Dalby has a lot of fast, narrow, long straights/corners broken up by 90° junctions. The other three are generally a bit wider and a bit more varied in their nature.


If we could find more stages in the area between Carlisle and Grizedale we could base the whole Friday in that area and have instead Sunday in Scotland to make the timetable looser and have even less liaisons.

If you know about stages run in the area, drop a comment :)

The only other forest with decent millage around there that I can think of is Greystoke, but M-Sport use it (quite extensively I believe) for testing, so I doubt they'd allow it to be included in a Rally GB route as it'd limit their use of it.

[AnttiL]

Thanks for the insight. I don't know much about the individual stages in Kielder but I have tried to look at some newer onboards and the roads seem awesome, partly like Finland with bends over crests. The road network is so wide that it could allow creating many stages with decent access for spectators. It often felt that in the RAC days they tried to just pack as much kilometres into the stage as possible and some of the stages were even completely closed for public. And the Dalby stage is another great example of making a very dense long stage in a small area.

[Bigalstosh99]

If we could find more stages in the area between Carlisle and Grizedale we could base the whole Friday in that area and have instead Sunday in Scotland to make the timetable looser and have even less liaisons.

If you know about stages run in the area, drop a comment :)

Nice exercise - be good to have a GB rally outside of Wales.

In the Carlisle area there is also Hobcarton and Wythop. Both are short <8km? Hobcarton is south side of the Whinlatter pass and could be linked directly to Comb with a small section of closed public highway. Wythop is west shore of lake bassenthwaite.

In south Scotland there is plenty of mileage in Forest of Ae north of Dumfries. Can be increased by short public road to include Windyhill.

[dimviii]

Τanak fans


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyfcEdxX0AEVR0_.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyfcEd0XgAE_3vs.jpg

https://twitter.com/OttTanak/status/1092083411492188160

[EstWRC]

a little bit background to this.

Theres a snowman parade today in Estonia where lots of people take part and are building snowmen. They are trying to break the world record which is held by Michigan at the moment, 2228 snowmen, last year Estonians did 1406.

So as you see some guys decided to do the Yaris :D

We will find out tonight if we break the record or not.

[Zeakiwi]

Mock electric car sounds put on wrc vid
BG Power yt channel
https://youtu.be/9RYp8tXgSNc


For the Rally Austria - reckon the Red Bull people could make it happen. Considering how many 4wd vehicles Maga Steyr build. wrc Austria is quite a good fit.

[AnttiL]

I made a small survey about which past and future rally classes you prefer. I would be fun to get as much data as possible so please drop a reply. It's anonymous and it's voluntary to reply your age and location

https://goo.gl/forms/JBpCkyuZPiDzRGh53

[tommeke_B]

Glad it's anonymous, I don't want anyone to know I cannot choose between group A and group B.

[N.O.T]

reminder that this poll was created by someone who considered the time when the best motorsport driver of all times competed was boring...

laughing stock fans creating polls about a sport that follow depending if their favorite kid is winning or not.

[pantealex]

Glad it's anonymous, I don't want anyone to know I cannot choose between group A and group B.

+1

[Morte66]

Glad it's anonymous, I don't want anyone to know I cannot choose between group A and group B.

I hear you. I mean, I wouldn't want anyone to know that I don't know the difference.

[AnttiL]

My Group A vs Group B poll has ended. I had 208 replies, thank you everyone. Firstly, here are the main results. Group A won slightly, and majority wants current WRC cars to continue with only 24.5% hoping for R5 cars. '

Like expected, the popularity of R5 for the main class was over double greater among Group A fans (38%) than among Group B fans (18.4%). Age-wise, it seems that 20-39 year old fans prefer Group A more, whereas the youngest and oldest fans prefer Group B.

The three countries giving the most replies were Finland, United Kingdom and New Zealand. Finns seem to like Group B more, Kiwis Group A and Brits both evenly.

FIN Group B 48.8% Group A 25.6%
GB Group B 44% Group A 44%
NZ Group B 33% Group A 51.3%

As for the opinions for the future category, almost all Finns and over half of Brits want to continue with current WRC cars, whereas over half of Kiwis are convinced with R5.

FIN WRC2017 79.1% R5 16,3%
GB WRC2017 52% R5 32%
NZ WRC2017 35.9 % R5 59%

The country-based results seem to have a clear correlation. If you liked Group B, you like also the current WRC cars, and if you liked Group A, you would rather see R5 as the main class.

[Mirek]

Hehe, I am kind of exception from the rule as it seems. I have prefered gr.A over gr.B but absolutely prefer the current WRC to stay the top class over the R5.

I have voted mainly according to the spectacle (in my eyes of course) and the reason why I like the Gr.A cars more than Gr.B is that I'm from an asphalt country. The Gr.B cars weren't very impressive on asphalt, often quite the opposite, they were overpowered but ridiculously clumsy. On the other hand the gr.A cars of the early 90' were likely the most spectacular cars on asphalt ever, at least for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bTEAHdBK3A

[dupanton]

Same for me Mirek :) Although I'm too young to have seen the group B and group A days.

[AnttiL]

Now if you had gone back to Group 4

I had to keep it simple. There's even now quite much data to crunch. Besides, I was only trying to make deeper the Group A vs Group B polls presented by The Gravel Crew and Gary Boyd.

[NickRally]

Hehe, I am kind of exception from the rule as it seems. I have prefered gr.A over gr.B but absolutely prefer the current WRC to stay the top class over the R5.

I have voted mainly according to the spectacle (in my eyes of course) and the reason why I like the Gr.A cars more than Gr.B is that I'm from an asphalt country. The Gr.B cars weren't very impressive on asphalt, often quite the opposite, they were overpowered but ridiculously clumsy. On the other hand the gr.A cars of the early 90' were likely the most spectacular cars on asphalt ever, at least for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bTEAHdBK3A

Defending the Group B corner, they didn't look that shabby on tarmac considering the 7-8 years of development between the two videos :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rePc-5VBiI

[MartijnS]

Group A and WRC here too.

[Rally Power]

Was only jesting. Like the music genres I have lived through feel blessed to have witnessed rallying in all its great formats so looking forward to the next era even if its milk floats with aero!

Yep, every WRC era has been fantastic and it’s hard to choose the best one; I’ve started following Portugal Rally in the early 80’s and it’s impossible to forget those initial memories, with top drivers like Rohrl, Alen, Mikkola, Therier and so many others giving an amazing show in the last rwd works cars (and the initial 4wd one, the Quattro). Probably the last Gr.2/4 and the first Gr.B generations are still my favourites, but I’ve no complaints on current WRC cars: they’re truly amazing to watch!

[dimviii]

flat out over jumps
https://twitter.com/Bertieschip/status/1094480478457999363

[EstWRC]

stronger than Toyota, radiator didnt break

[Mintexmemory]

Shout out for Gp4 - Toyota, Saab, Fiat, Lancia, Datsun and of course my beloved RS1800

[DocMS]

Craid Breen wins in Galway. With 25 R5's and 2 WRC on entry list. Be great to see this man back in the WRC. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190210/6dfa6a3687164e16c60ebbac0056124b.jpg

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[AnttiL]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DzcfLnLWkAAbJwN.jpg

"French teams still cannot put ashtrays on rally cars!" - Esapekka "Löysä" Lappi

Photoshop magic courtesy of Hartusvuori

[Rally Power]

Shout out for Gp4 - Toyota, Saab, Fiat, Lancia, Datsun and of course my beloved RS1800

Don’t forget the 911! Althougth mainly entered by private teams, the 911 Gr.4 versions were always competitive (mainly on tarmac) and a delight to watch. Hearing the flat 6 roaring in the forest long before Thérier wild slides become visible was a mind blowing experience! Here’s a taste of it: https://youtu.be/ALrrlhQfVfA?t=265

[AnttiL]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2F9_Ykc2Mw

Which one is faster? Kalle on Fabia R5 or Harri on Fabia WRC?

[Rallyper]

Who´s fastest? Haven´t seen, but Kalle must be fastest. Else it´s unlike me and my son... ;)

[pantealex]

I was surprised that old Fabia WRC is longer than Fabia R5.

[N.O.T]

Who´s fastest? Haven´t seen, but Kalle must be fastest. Else it´s unlike me and my son... ;)

its a staged show so it does not matter.

[Rallyper]

its a staged show so it does not matter.

However you should have seen me and Simon competing on RBR some 15 yrs ago, and I had to admit he was faster... :( :(

[Mirek]

I was surprised that old Fabia WRC is longer than Fabia R5.

It was because the rules at that time forced the manufacturers to have 4+ meter long cars hence stock Fabia I RS had longer bumpers (it was even more extreme with 206 WRC).

[dimviii]

Daniel Elena prefers to highlight the pedagogical virtues of these videos: "It allows young [pilots] to learn faster. Where a crew put five Rally Finland to understand that he could jump a full gas hump, the new ones see instantly whether it's feasible or not. The older ones also benefit. Five-time defending champion Sébastien Ogier (Ford Fiesta WRC) is watching Thierry Neuville's videos, and vice-versa. "And we will watch those of Ogier", complete "Danos". As a result, "the gaps between competitors are narrowing. The profession is evolving.



Julien Ingrassia, Sébastien Ogier's co-driver, is more critical. "It does not change the job, but it complicates the deal and it's a shame. When you are very strong in a special stage, it's easy for the boyfriends, the year after, to watch our camera. One does not ask anymore: "But how does it take us fifteen seconds on this special?" It loses its charm. There, everything is explicit. "

https://www.lemonde.fr/sports-mecaniques/article/2018/04/05/rallye-de-corse-l-intrusion-des-cameras-embarquees_5281192_1654646.html

[AL14]

Daniel Elena prefers to highlight the pedagogical virtues of these videos: "It allows young [pilots] to learn faster. Where a crew put five Rally Finland to understand that he could jump a full gas hump, the new ones see instantly whether it's feasible or not. The older ones also benefit. Five-time defending champion Sébastien Ogier (Ford Fiesta WRC) is watching Thierry Neuville's videos, and vice-versa. "And we will watch those of Ogier", complete "Danos". As a result, "the gaps between competitors are narrowing. The profession is evolving.



Julien Ingrassia, Sébastien Ogier's co-driver, is more critical. "It does not change the job, but it complicates the deal and it's a shame. When you are very strong in a special stage, it's easy for the boyfriends, the year after, to watch our camera. One does not ask anymore: "But how does it take us fifteen seconds on this special?" It loses its charm. There, everything is explicit. "

https://www.lemonde.fr/sports-mecaniques/article/2018/04/05/rallye-de-corse-l-intrusion-des-cameras-embarquees_5281192_1654646.html

Look, Ogier is whining about something, how come?

[Rallyper]

Daniel Elena prefers to highlight the pedagogical virtues of these videos: "It allows young [pilots] to learn faster. Where a crew put five Rally Finland to understand that he could jump a full gas hump, the new ones see instantly whether it's feasible or not. The older ones also benefit. Five-time defending champion Sébastien Ogier (Ford Fiesta WRC) is watching Thierry Neuville's videos, and vice-versa. "And we will watch those of Ogier", complete "Danos". As a result, "the gaps between competitors are narrowing. The profession is evolving.



Julien Ingrassia, Sébastien Ogier's co-driver, is more critical. "It does not change the job, but it complicates the deal and it's a shame. When you are very strong in a special stage, it's easy for the boyfriends, the year after, to watch our camera. One does not ask anymore: "But how does it take us fifteen seconds on this special?" It loses its charm. There, everything is explicit. "

https://www.lemonde.fr/sports-mecaniques/article/2018/04/05/rallye-de-corse-l-intrusion-des-cameras-embarquees_5281192_1654646.html

I know.

We just gather the best drivers, let´s say on Bahamas every three weeks, letting them compete in DIRT 2,0. Followers around the world just have to get WRC+ and no problems to follow the incar.

[mknight]

Daniel Elena prefers to highlight the pedagogical virtues of these videos: "It allows young [pilots] to learn faster. Where a crew put five Rally Finland to understand that he could jump a full gas hump, the new ones see instantly whether it's feasible or not. The older ones also benefit. Five-time defending champion Sébastien Ogier (Ford Fiesta WRC) is watching Thierry Neuville's videos, and vice-versa. "And we will watch those of Ogier", complete "Danos". As a result, "the gaps between competitors are narrowing. The profession is evolving.



Julien Ingrassia, Sébastien Ogier's co-driver, is more critical. "It does not change the job, but it complicates the deal and it's a shame. When you are very strong in a special stage, it's easy for the boyfriends, the year after, to watch our camera. One does not ask anymore: "But how does it take us fifteen seconds on this special?" It loses its charm. There, everything is explicit. "

https://www.lemonde.fr/sports-mecaniques/article/2018/04/05/rallye-de-corse-l-intrusion-des-cameras-embarquees_5281192_1654646.html


After Monte 2017 where Ogier said he remembered that the corner where he went off into the field on SS12 was open on the outside you declared how it's impossible for drivers to remember corners on a rally stage. The majority of the people around here shared the view.

This was 2? years after onboards became publicly available on WRC+. Off course they also had own recce onboards long before that.

Since then we have had many confirmations that drivers indeed memorize the stages and now Leob/Elena who came back after a break talk in detail about it. First time they mentioned it was after Mexico a year ago and now after Sweden they talk quite a lot about it.

-----------------

What's there to learn? That the first 15 min/2 page response crowd of "so called experts" here is often wrong. That includes me who was convinced for quite a few rallies in start of 2017 how C3 was fine on gravel.

It's also looks like the "strongest" opinions are often the most wrong. "Toyota village team of nobodies" story is the most widely known, but there are many other examples.

Nothing wrong about posting own opinion on forum, but perhaps a bit less aggressivity towards other opinions and a bit less "huge" immediate conclusions are in place. That again counts for all, me included.

[dimviii]

After Monte 2017 where Ogier said he remembered that the corner where he went off into the field on SS12 was open on the outside you declared how it's impossible for drivers to remember corners on a rally stage. The majority of the people around here shared the view.

.

the discussion was something different.
Some mates insist that Ogier knew from onboards,that he can take some more risks at some corners,because he knew that if he gets out of road,there will be no damage due to ''safe'' landing at these corners.

This it totally stupid,and different from the article i posted.
Why its stupid, i have explained many times.

[Rallyper]

the discussion was something different.
Some mates insist that Ogier knew from onboards,that he can take some more risks at some corners,because he knew that if he gets out of road,there will be no damage due to ''safe'' landing at these corners.

This it totally stupid,and different from the article i posted.
Why its stupid, i have explained many times.

Yeah. My quote was just something that came up.

Having said that, what do you mean "stupid"? Didn´t follow discussion about videos for recce at all ...

[AnttiL]

To me this conversation does not make any sense from post to another, but I just wanna drop in and say that the Monte Carlo 2017 SS12 was driven (in a longer configuration) 2014-2016 so it's not like WRC+ onboards were necessary for learning the stage.

[stefanvv]

it's impossible for drivers to remember corners on a rally stage.

It's hilarious someone to claim that. You should say not every driver, some drivers do that remarkably easy, like Rohrl in the article someone posted recently saying he remembers exactly 90 percent of the stages. This is phenomena in some people, they just remember instantly, the others need to learn, but surely they can do it if spend enough time.

[mknight]

the discussion was something different.
Some mates insist that Ogier knew from onboards,that he can take some more risks at some corners,because he knew that if he gets out of road,there will be no damage due to ''safe'' landing at these corners.

This it totally stupid,and different from the article i posted.
Why its stupid, i have explained many times.

Ogier insisted that himself:

This is Ogier's quote (from ewrc-results)
"We knew it was an open area but I wasn't expecting so much dirt on the road. On the winter tyre we understeered. Okay, I could take a risk there because I knew it was only a field on the outside. I had to try and do a bit more here"

You accused Ogier of lying cause he could not possibly remember it was "safe" to go outside there. Right now you repeated that, even when Loeb says that drivers now remember every corner and perfect their lines trough it.

Anyone who watches 2-3 onboards of same stage will start to remember the corners. Now for the WRC drivers they drive 2 times in recce, watch the recce vids in the evening and watch the onboards before each leg + all the time watching between rallies. This is on stages that are often run over and over again every year with some small changes. On top of that this is a stage a few kms from Ogier's hometown.

Surely if you remember a corner you can also remember if there is trees, ravine, concrete wall or open field on the outside. Off course that does not mean it's "perfectly" safe to go there, there can be hiding rocks etc, but it's clearly safer than on quite a few other corners.

Btw. there is an example of a "known" blind cut over a jump in Sardinia where Breen hit a rock in 2017 (and broke gearbox) while every other driver avoided it cause they drove the stage before and remembered it jumping further out.
There is even a vid of that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIprw5JPaSw

[Tarmop]

Umh, this old thing again? Well, for sure, if there is a stretch of straight road followed by curb with flat surface besides it, on will remember it. When one doesn`t have a memory of a fish...and is from there.

[AnttiL]

Also, Ogier could have just had that in his pace notes. He didn't say he remembered it, he just said he knew there's a field.

[denkimi]

and the drivers studying on-boards does not necessarily mean they try to remember them completely.

onboards are most usefull in combination with pacenotes. if you are not sure if you a certain corner or jump can be taken flatout, you can watch if the others lift or not and put it in the notes.

[dimviii]

It's hilarious someone to claim that. .

who claimed that? Show the post.

[dimviii]

Ogier insisted that himself:

This is Ogier's quote (from ewrc-results)
"We knew it was an open area but I wasn't expecting so much dirt on the road. On the winter tyre we understeered. Okay, I could take a risk there because I knew it was only a field on the outside. I had to try and do a bit more here"

You accused Ogier of lying cause he could not possibly remember it was "safe" to go outside there. Right now you repeated that, even when Loeb says that drivers now remember every corner and perfect their lines trough it.

Anyone who watches 2-3 onboards of same stage will start to remember the corners. Now for the WRC drivers they drive 2 times in recce, watch the recce vids in the evening and watch the onboards before each leg + all the time watching between rallies. This is on stages that are often run over and over again every year with some small changes. On top of that this is a stage a few kms from Ogier's hometown.

Surely if you remember a corner you can also remember if there is trees, ravine, concrete wall or open field on the outside. Off course that does not mean it's "perfectly" safe to go there, there can be hiding rocks etc, but it's clearly safer than on quite a few other corners.

who said that drivers cant remember various corners at stages?
are you trying to play the smart one?
i said that there is NO driver that he risk to go of the road at ANY corner because there is a field or an open space.
What Ogier says after an off is not a rule.Its not the first time he will say an excuse

[dupanton]

who said that drivers cant remember various corners at stages?
are you trying to play the smart one?
i said that there is NO driver that he risk to go of the road at ANY corner because there is a field or an open space.
What Ogier says after an off is not a rule.Its not the first time he will say an excuse

It can be done. And it's often done. You can make your note a bit "optmistic" if there is a lot of room on the outside.
I also know several cases where drivers deliberately overshoot the last corner when the finish line is in/just before that last corner.

[dimviii]

It can be done. And it's often done. You can make your note a bit "optmistic" if there is a lot of room on the outside.
I also know several cases where drivers deliberately overshoot the last corner when the finish line is in/just before that last corner.

last corner is something different and well known for decades,some crews have at their notes and one or two corners after the flying in some ocassions.
About the rest of the stage,its impossible to take risks due to a ''lot of room'' because when you exit the road,there are so many variables,that you cant predict the behavior of the car,and how this will end.

[AnttiL]

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2019/02/27/wrc-itineraries-by-the-rule-book/

I looked at the FIA Sporting Regulations and picked out the rules which limit itineraries and routes and analyzed how they have changed from the past.

[tommeke_B]

Anyone else here heard rumors that this year's Rally Catalunya will be the last time it's a mixed event? In Sweden I heard a few people saying that from next year on it should be full tarmac again.

[EstWRC]

yeah there have been some rumours about it already.

[dimviii]

quiz of the month.

which member from here is the driver?
winner takes 4 beers from driver

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0o5u5GX4AE7Os-.jpg

[AnttiL]

Can be no other than Rallyper!

[dimviii]

Can be no other than Rallyper!

Per owns you 4 beers!

[Rallyper]

Can be no other than Rallyper!

Well, maybe Antti read Twitter, so easy to win. I think it´ll be a beerparty in "Jyväskä" coming summer...

Dimitri, you should really come. I mean it.

[Rallyper]

quiz of the month.

which member from here is the driver?
winner takes 4 beers from driver

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0o5u5GX4AE7Os-.jpg

I can tell you more here:

The word "varuprov" means sample or pattern meaning I was sent this small photo and was able to order bigger photos. However at that time I spent all my money on rallying, being a student as well, so not much money to pay for all costs. I drove thre rallies in that car and sold it later in the autumn. But I had become C-class driver and my goal for that year (1972) was fulfilled...

[dimviii]

"The record of Jari-Matti will be hard to beat, although we never know, but 100 rallies in the World is also a good number, it's good, but I have not really thought about it yet. It's a snapshot, hope it will not be my last rally, I still want to do this job in the coming years, and we'll see when it stops, "said Thierry Neuville.

Neuville made his World Rally Championship debut on October 2, 2009. He raced a Citroën C2 R2 in the colors of the RACB. He did not finish the test. In the 14th special, the alternator broke down. The Belgian was in 21st position and leader in the R2 category.

"I do not remember much, I remember where it happened, we go there every year and I sometimes have to think about it, what I remember is that we did the shakedown with the notes Sébastien Loeb (five times world champion at the time and official driver Citroën, ed.) In this way, we were able to check his notes once again and I had the chance to understand his system of work. also offered to drive the entire race with his notes, but then I declined politely. "

https://www.rtbf.be/sport/moteurs/rallye/wrc/detail_thierry-neuville-devient-centenaire-au-mexique?id=10161445&fbclid=IwAR1IdK7hr5-52Feopu6amUgGqK1cNQlhRwPUgWDXrsUrCqPVMlrgqHKQ9w0

[dimviii]

The special quiz '100th' of Neuville

His first rally WRC: "In 2009. I remember it vaguely, it was in Spain."
His most beautiful victory: "That in Sardinia, in 2018."
His biggest output: "The worst was in a test session, in rally, maybe the shakedown in Finland, we managed to cut some trees."
The rally he wants to hang on his record: "No idea."
The opponent for whom he has the greatest respect: "Everyone, but some are more dangerous than others." Sébastien Ogier is a real reference, there is Sébastien Loeb too, with whom I share perhaps the character Always give the maximum without playing other things. "
197 departures for Latvala, is this a goal? : "We'll see, if the sport evolves towards the electric or the hybrid, it will be necessary to know if it will please me still."
How would he summarize his career? "It was fast, I started practically without experience in an almost professional setting with the support of the RACB, I arrived very early in the WRC, and yet I had a super speed It was a little lacking in regularity, but we have been able to work this point with time, we are 4 times vice-champion, we have been close by twice, we still have a few years ahead of us, it should be done. "
What he would like us to remember from him: "I hope I have been able to impress some of our fans, I'm doing the best I can, always."
https://www.rtbf.be/sport/moteurs/rallye/wrc/detail_le-quiz-special-pour-la-100ieme-de-neuville-en-wrc?id=10163814&fbclid=IwAR29MgKHVmz8nYR2qOxh-915oPf2diyPbA8bz4Ufzz4hm5KNSlaHCzRjodo

[dimviii]

"If I wanted to fly, I would've become a pilot" - Walter Rohrl talking about his dislike for Rally Finland

discuss

[Rallyper]

Well, with those 600hp+ engines and very poor suspension, I´d agree...

Nowadays no excuses for top driver to compete in Rally Finland

[N.O.T]

"If I wanted to fly, I would've become a pilot" - Walter Rohrl talking about his dislike for Rally Finland

discuss

you spelled "fight" wrong

[dimviii]

Well, with those 600hp+ engines and very poor suspension, I´d agree...



how the rest drivers could handle?

[Rallyper]

how the rest drivers could handle?

They did it good. But I don´t know how Rohrl felt driving it. He handled it not enough to be fastest, did he?

[pantealex]

Well, with those 600hp+ engines and very poor suspension, I´d agree...

Nowadays no excuses for top driver to compete in Rally Finland

Rohrl started skipping 1000 Lakes (Finland) long before B-era, even Fiat 131 or Opel Ascona was too difficult to handle in Finland for Walter.

[Rallyper]

Rohrl started skipping 1000 Lakes (Finland) long before B-era, even Fiat 131 or Opel Ascona was too difficult to handle in Finland for Walter.

Ei kukaan tosi mies!

[dimviii]

understeer is not good
https://twitter.com/YannEhrlacher/status/1104459015097061377

[dimviii]

haha
https://twitter.com/HartusvuoriWRC/status/1104992158778646528

amazing heli pilot
https://twitter.com/jwok_714/status/1104780962779394049

[dimviii]

Reinhard Klein interview
https://revivalofthemachine.com/blog/entrevista-reinhard-klein-retratos-rally/?fbclid=IwAR0dYPTORd-r_rHzhVGo8jIrp3DNZypYOuEQpSblvaEKTZsXoknDnGaHbIE

[dimviii]

young Soberg testing with Loeb racing
https://youtu.be/_EaaygyhtVs

[N.O.T]

young Soberg testing with Loeb racing
https://youtu.be/_EaaygyhtVs

young solberg should look elsewhere for a career when he cannot even beat local cowboys in a USA rally.