Which rally should they add to the WRC-calendar?

[OldF]

How do you like this? Much of my thoughts.

MAXRALLY - CALENDAR: the argument for staying the same (http://www.maxrally.com/2013/07/15/calendar-the-argument-for-staying-the-same)

“Why the constant fiddling? Why the great intrigue? What’s the trouble with what we’ve got?

What am I talking about? The calendar for the 2014 World Rally Championship.

At the moment, it seems to be one of the world’s greatest conundrums. And I don’t know why. We seem to be firmly in the situation where we’re trying to fix something which isn’t broken.

Yes, yes, I know President Todt wants to take rallying around the world, but, to be quite frank, the world’s not ready for rallying at the highest level yet. So, let’s stop messing around and stick with what we’ve got.

We’re told the Acropolis is for the axe, along with Sardinia. MAXRALLY’s newshounds regularly report that these two are at the bottom of the FIA’s league table, but having attended both events this year, MAXRALLY can report both to be in the rudest of health. The Acropolis was a classic, with day one as tough as any day in Greek rallying history (with the possible exception of the 1979 event, which included more than 1000 competitive kilometres, 58 stages, four days and about 10 minutes’ sleep).


And what about Rally Italia? Sardinia was supposed to be the real black sheep of the family; the one which simply wouldn’t come into line and go to the mainland. What, I ask you, does mainland Italy have that Sardinia doesn’t? Sanremo advocates will blether on about a stunning coastline and fabulous mountain scenery. Sardinia’s coastline goes all the way around and the inland moonscape is just mental. And this year there were more spectators than ever.

We start with the Monte and finish with Rally GB and what’s in the middle is fine by me. OK, there is just one possible exception… could we have New Zealand back please?

Forget all this energy being wasted on emerging markets like China and Brazil – in rallying terms they’re not even emerging yet. And the last thing we want to do is get there and suffer a rally being run at a standard way below what the WRC has come to be judged by. These things take time, so let’s give them time and enjoy the brilliant events we’ve got in the calendar right now.

Apart from being on the wrong side of the Tasman, I’m 100 per cent happy with where we’ve been and where we’re going this year.

And keeping things the same would give rallies the chance to develop long-term business strategies in the way Rally Finland did with long-term agreements with both a national television broadcaster and the then WRC promoter.

Long-termism’s about the best ism around. Let’s not ignore it.”

[Eli]

MAXRALLY - CALENDAR: the argument for making changes (http://www.maxrally.com/2013/07/17/calendar-the-argument-for-making-changes)

[OldF]

MAXRALLY - CALENDAR: the argument for making changes (http://www.maxrally.com/2013/07/17/calendar-the-argument-for-making-changes)

I read that news also. Would be nice to have those two guys in a live chat and see how it ends up (both sitting nicely in their chairs or….) :arrows:

[Prisoner Monkeys]

“Why the constant fiddling? Why the great intrigue? What’s the trouble with what we’ve got?"
I don't think there's a problem with the calendar as it is. But I also think that if new events can be found that offer a greater challenge, then they should at the very least be considered for inclusion. If an event is just going to be a carbon copy of another rally, then it's a problem, but if you can find an even with its own distinct character and stages with their own challenging surface, then it should be considered.

For example, if you ran a rally somewhere in northern India, you could conceivably have an event run at high altitude in the foothills of the Himalayas. The thin air would affect the engine's performance, giving the event is own character. Similarly, if you had an event in Malaysia, then it could be a rally run in oppressive tropical humidity, which also gives it character. And that, I think, is the sort of thing that should be considered.

[Eli]

it looks as if more & more they will take down rally acropolis & sardegna and instead have poland so my theory calendar for next year is:
Monte-Carlo
Sweden
Mexico
Portugal
Argentina
Poland
Finland
Germany
New-Zealand/Australia
France
Spain
Wales GB

[OldF]

I don't think there's a problem with the calendar as it is. But I also think that if new events can be found that offer a greater challenge, then they should at the very least be considered for inclusion. If an event is just going to be a carbon copy of another rally, then it's a problem, but if you can find an even with its own distinct character and stages with their own challenging surface, then it should be considered.

For example, if you ran a rally somewhere in northern India, you could conceivably have an event run at high altitude in the foothills of the Himalayas. The thin air would affect the engine's performance, giving the event is own character. Similarly, if you had an event in Malaysia, then it could be a rally run in oppressive tropical humidity, which also gives it character. And that, I think, is the sort of thing that should be considered.


“Why the constant fiddling? Why the great intrigue? What’s the trouble with what we’ve got?"

Those were not my words, just copies from the article and not my key issues from the article.

I’m not saying any new rallies outside Europe shouldn’t be added to the calendar but it should be a rally, as you said, offering great and new challenge.

I don’t understand the point that FIA want to have a rally in a country just because it’s a growing market if the rally hasn’t any local interest from people and media and especially if the manufacturers are not interested. If the manufacturers are interested it’s OK but only thing I’ve read about is VW is interested to go to Brazil.

Maybe FIA should do some test marketing in the growing markets to have a clue how much media exposure a WRC rally would have in a growing market country. I know construction companies does this in Finland before starting a new project to get some view if it’s worth to start building houses in a certain area or not.

A more worldwide WRC would of course be nice which could mean a stronger ERC. The only problem is that the manufacturers should be more interested (putting more many) in ERC or ERC teams getting more sponsorship. As I recall for example Renault haven’t been involved in rallies outside Europe since the Alpine era. Maybe Europe would be a market large enough for some manufacturers to invest more in a strong ERC?

[AndyRAC]

It's been said before, yes we want a global Championship, but if there is no market or interest in the WRC in the BRIC countries, no point in going there.

Concentrate on making the current events even better, and keeping hold of the 'classic' events - as well as having a more even spread of Tarmac/ Gravel. Endless dry, dusty gravel events are boring, and have no 'road relevance' to the Manufacturers.

[Eli]

it's really frustrating, the FIA is really not doing it's job properly, who the hell cares about Poland rally, and to take out rally sardegna and acropolis for it???!!!

[tommeke_B]

it's really frustrating, the FIA is really not doing it's job properly, who the hell cares about Poland rally, and to take out rally sardegna and acropolis for it???!!!

I care, and I want to go there if it is run. Amazing fast and flowing stages in my opinion. :) Somewhat like Finland, but more open, more narrow, and a softer surface. The stages were nice when it was in WRC in '09, but for me, from videos, the stages they used last years when it was ERC look even more impressive. On top of that it's always nice to discover something "new", therefor the years with alternating calendars were not bad at all... :) All events that made it into the WRC are nice, in my opinion.

[Franky]

I care, and I want to go there if it is run. Amazing fast and flowing stages in my opinion. :)

Like wise. The 2009 event left me with very good emotions. The roads were interesting, the atmosphere was great and the region is just stunning.

[wrc1600]

it's really frustrating, the FIA is really not doing it's job properly, who the hell cares about Poland rally, and to take out rally sardegna and acropolis for it???!!!

I care. Why do other/new rallies not deserve to be in WRC? I love Sardegna and want this rally to stay but at the same time want Poland to be in.

[stefanvv]

Frankly I like to see some different Rallies each year and that's what rotation principle is about. Some "fresh blood" couldn't harm and could only do good with limited number of events and so many new candidates willing to enter. In that respect even some remote but "exotic" Rally is good for the championship I think. About Rally Poland, I liked it 09', but recent changes are in wrong direction imho. They should go back to the good old Rally Poland we saw back then with these nice forest stages.

[wrc1600]

Frankly I like to see some different Rallies each year and that's what rotation principle is about. Some "fresh blood" couldn't harm and could only do good with limited number of events and so many new candidates willing to enter. In that respect even some remote but "exotic" Rally is good for the championship I think. About Rally Poland, I liked it 09', but recent changes are in wrong direction imho. They should go back to the good old Rally Poland we saw back then with these nice forest stages.

The only change I am aware of is new date of this year editon -September.

[Mirek]

+1. I'm no expert of Mikolajki stages but I don't recall any significant changes in stages in last years. The last major change for me was moving the rally from the old asphalt stages.

[Motorsportfun]

At the moment

Monte Carlo
Sweden
Mexico
Portugal
Argentina
Italy
Finland
Germany
Poland
France
Spain
GB

Plus another one between them:
Greece(?)
NZ/Australia(?)

Hope unpredictable Greece. :)

[Eli]

or maybe:
Monte-Carlo
Sweden
Mexico
Portugal
Argentina
Italy
Poland
Finland
Germany
France
Spain
Wales GB

[Motorsportfun]

It looks a 13-events calendar...

[Plan9]

I would be surprised if they got rid of NZ/Australian round. Keep alternating would make the most sense.

[Eli]

i would be too but i read in autosport that sardegna is in the best position to be kept for next year, and by the way "Motorsportfun" it's 12 rounds not 13.

[rallyfiend]

I think we've seen the last of the rotation system and Rally NZ. I reckon you'll find Australia is the choice for the region.

The rotation system was a vote-grabbing load of bull by Max when it was introduced, and was economically unsustainable - which is why it never really happened to start with. It was never about the best interests of the WRC or its organisers / competitors / manufacturers.

All it's done in Australia and NZ is run down two events. To run a WRC event (and grow it) you need full-time staff, good media interest, sponsors and government interest. Every two years kills all of that.

I think it'll be a 12 event calendar - same as this year, but no Greece or Sardinia. Although if the Italians find a mainland event it'll get added as a 13th event. It's an election year for Todt rememeber!

[A FONDO]

We had a similar topic recently (perhaps 1 year ago while waiting for the 2013 calendar) but I'll explain again my view on the events. Please people from mentioned or skipped countries don't get offended, my views are only sport-wise.

I think due to the tough financial times and the absurdish prices of the cars (and their running costs) it is still early to extend the calendar so 12-13 events are okay. 10 of them to be the same and rest 2-3 to be changing.

The 10 constant are:

Monte
snow - Sweden
dust - Portugal
mud - somewhere in Brittain
Argentina
Finland
Australia rotating with New Zelaand
all-tarmac in Spain, Italy, Greece

Changing: Mexico, Sardinia, Turkey (only one amongst them per year joining Portugal because they are all dusty); one of Russia, Estonia, summer Norway for a thick-forest smooth-gravel; there should be 1 more proper tarmac event too.

[Eli]

We had a similar topic recently (perhaps 1 year ago while waiting for the 2013 calendar) but I'll explain again my view on the events. Please people from mentioned or skipped countries don't get offended, my views are only sport-wise.

I think due to the tough financial times and the absurdish prices of the cars (and their running costs) it is still early to extend the calendar so 12-13 events are okay. 10 of them to be the same and rest 2-3 to be changing.

The 10 constant are:

Monte
snow - Sweden
dust - Portugal
mud - somewhere in Brittain
Argentina
Finland
Australia rotating with New Zelaand
all-tarmac in Spain, Italy, Greece

Changing: Mexico, Sardinia, Turkey (only one amongst them per year joining Portugal because they are all dusty); one of Russia, Estonia, summer Norway for a thick-forest smooth-gravel; there should be 1 more proper tarmac event too.

nice calendar, i would add Corsica,Cyprus and Norway in the summer, nice idea. keep Sardinia though

[A FONDO]

Sure Corsica, I knew I have forgotten something :up:

[stefanvv]

nice calendar, i would add Corsica,Cyprus and Norway in the summer, nice idea. keep Sardinia though

I would prefer Acropolis than Cyprus, it is basically the same surface and stage characteristics and is much more affordable.

[Eli]

I would prefer Acropolis than Cyprus, it is basically the same surface and stage characteristics and is much more affordable.
i would prefer both ;)

[stefanvv]

i would prefer both ;)

That might be very difficult :)

[edgars944]

Sure Corsica, I knew I have forgotten something :up:
+

[tommeke_B]

From what I have seen, Cyprus from last years is a very different event compared to mid-2000s (you know, the slow rough stages with average speed of 60 kph). Much faster and less fragile (also the region is different now). For example the "golden stage" was a very nice and relatively fast stage. :)

[Eli]

if the calendar was up to me it would go like this:
Monte-Carlo
Sweden
Norway (or put Norway in the summer as "slowsun" suggested)
Cyprus
USA-they really should have a WRC by now, unless you still want Mexico.
Argentina
Greece
Italy(Sardegna/San Remo-you decide fans)
Finland
Germany
New-Zealand
Spain(bring it back to full tarmac please)
Corsica
Japan
Australia (back to Perth already!!!)
Ireland (Great event-still don't understand why nobody want's it back- a tarmac rally with all of the gravel characteristics).
Wales GB
I know it's more than the 16 rallies held back in the years 2004-2007 but i don't care, i mean if Formula 1 has at least 20 rounds why can't the WRC have more than 16 and in these difficult days 12-13.

[focus206]

if the calendar was up to me it would go like this:
Monte-Carlo
Sweden
Norway (or put Norway in the summer as "slowsun" suggested)
Cyprus
USA-they really should have a WRC by now, unless you still want Mexico.
Argentina
Greece
Italy(Sardegna/San Remo-you decide fans)
Finland
Germany
New-Zealand
Spain(bring it back to full tarmac please)
Corsica
Japan
Australia (back to Perth already!!!)
Ireland (Great event-still don't understand why nobody want's it back- a tarmac rally with all of the gravel characteristics).
Wales GB
I know it's more than the 16 rallies held back in the years 2004-2007 but i don't care, i mean if Formula 1 has at least 20 rounds why can't the WRC have more than 16 and in these difficult days 12-13.
17 events?? 16 were already too many... I seem to recall also teams and some drivers criticizing the 16 events calendar, am I right?

[Eli]

17 events?? 16 were already too many... I seem to recall also teams and some drivers criticizing the 16 events calendar, am I right?

i said it was to my liking :)

[Franky]

The calendar and rallies subject is always a difficult one.

About rotating system, I think it would work if there's a very high level regional championship. E.g. some events in Europe would rotate between the WRC and ERC. But that would mean that the ERC has a very fierce competition going on nearly every round.

[Plan9]

I feel if the WRC becomes to European it would be like having 2 ERC's. I am also not sure if the FIA would allow the WRC to be purely based in Europe. I was given to the understanding that the FIA was obliged to promote motorsport world wide.

[Doon]

1998 was the best in my opinion;

Round Dates Race
1 19–21 January Monte Carlo Rally
2 6–8 February Swedish Rally
3 28 February-2 March Safari Rally
4 22–25 March Rally Portugal
5 20–22 April Rally Catalunya
6 4–6 May Tour de Corse
7 20–23 May Rally Argentina
8 7–9 June Acropolis Rally
9 24–27 July Rally New Zealand
10 21–23 August Rally Finland
11 12–14 October Rally Sanremo
12 5–8 November Rally Australia
13 22–24 November Network Q Rally of Great Britain

[Eli]

sounds good but i truly would bring back Rally Japan,Norway,Ireland, Cyprus and Perth in Australia (for the next time it rotates). so to sum it up i would do a 16 round calendar yes i know 16:
Monte-Carlo
Sweden
Norway
Mexico
Argentina
Cyprus
Greece
Sardegna
Finland
Germany
New-Zealand/Australia(in Perth obviously)
Spain
France
Japan
Ireland
Wales GB

[NxOxT]

sounds good but i truly would bring back Rally Japan,Norway,Ireland, Cyprus and Perth in Australia (for the next time it rotates). so to sum it up i would do a 16 round calendar yes i know 16:
Monte-Carlo
Sweden
Norway
Mexico
Argentina
Cyprus
Greece
Sardegna
Finland
Germany
New-Zealand/Australia(in Perth obviously)
Spain
France
Japan
Ireland
Wales GB

very nice calendar but again a proper WRC would have 18 events just like the best super motorsport of Formula one racing series... can you please post the 18 event calendar you would like to see ? i think we can have a calendar like that and maybe more, the teams can afford it.

[Eli]

very nice calendar but again a proper WRC would have 18 events just like the best super motorsport of Formula one racing series... can you please post the 18 event calendar you would like to see ? i think we can have a calendar like that and maybe more, the teams can afford it.
as you requested:
Monte-Carlo
Sweden
Norway
Mexico
Argentina
Cyprus
Sardegna
Greece
Finland
Germany
New-Zealand
Spain
Corsica
Turkey
Japan
Australia
Ireland
Wales GB

[NxOxT]

very nice.... i like your thinking.... for you what would be ideal ? for me i think 1 event every 15 days so that makes it 24 events per year...but they also need lets say 1-2 months holidays to see their families and play games with their kids and their doggies. so that makes it 20 events....you think it is possible ? what your 20 events would be ? my knowledge is limited so i do not know what we could add... maybe safari and an event in some distant place like Cuba and bikini islands or hawai which is in the USA ? so that would draw huge audiences from the Nascar people...or maybe untested markets like south and north korea.... what do you think ? 20 events !!!! go on please enlighten us...

[GigiGalliNo1]

Monte-Carlo (Wet Tarmac)
Sweden/Norway (Split 1.5day in each country)
West Virginia
Turkey
Brazil
Corsica (Tarmac)
Greece
Ypres (Tarmac)
Finland
Germany(Tarmac)
Poland (Tarmac)
New Zealand
Portugal
Jordan/AbuDhabi
Ireland (Tarmac)
Wales GB

(Monte with Swed/Norway keep same spec cars.
Send new cars to USA and then ship to Brazil.
Turkey/Greece same spec cars.
Corsica/Ypres/Germany/Poland same spec cars.
Finland cars send to NZ right after then back for GB from USA/Brazil.
Portugal/Middle East and Ireland same spec cars as Turkey/Greece.)

[Franky]

very nice.... i like your thinking.... for you what would be ideal ? for me i think 1 event every 15 days so that makes it 24 events per year...but they also need lets say 1-2 months holidays to see their families and play games with their kids and their doggies. so that makes it 20 events....you think it is possible ? what your 20 events would be ? my knowledge is limited so i do not know what we could add... maybe safari and an event in some distant place like Cuba and bikini islands or hawai which is in the USA ? so that would draw huge audiences from the Nascar people...or maybe untested markets like south and north korea.... what do you think ? 20 events !!!! go on please enlighten us...

For a moment I thought you're seriously thinking that but then saw the three capital letters in your user name

[GigiGalliNo1]

Bahahahahahaha

[makinen_fan]

lol, NxOxT initial post didn't trick me :p

I would agree with Doon that 1998 calendar look fantastic. Not a single event was boring or similar to another. The only thing is to have Catalunya rally as today mixed event and also Sanremo rally return to the 80 mixed event format. Those gravel roads were fantastic.

[Simorally86]

lol, NxOxT initial post didn't trick me :p

I would agree with Doon that 1998 calendar look fantastic. Not a single event was boring or similar to another. The only thing is to have Catalunya rally as today mixed event and also Sanremo rally return to the 80 mixed event format. Those gravel roads were fantastic.

Mixed San Remo was amazing...unfortunately, i think that it never come back :( Tuscany gravel roads are some of the best in the world, but nowadays it's so difficult find permits to close these roads... But i'm agree, 1998, and also 1999 calendars were defenetly amazing! SanRemo, Corsica and Catalunya were real asphalt rally, personally i really don't like Alsace, neighter Germany...

[sollitt]

I feel if the WRC becomes to European it would be like having 2 ERC's. I am also not sure if the FIA would allow the WRC to be purely based in Europe. I was given to the understanding that the FIA was obliged to promote motorsport world wide.The WRC is European. It couldn't become more European. The teams are based in Europe, the drivers are European, the best rallies are in Europe, they all eat pasta. The FIA is "obliged" to make the thing work. It ain't working at the moment. Get the costs under control and it's got a chance.

[stefanvv]

lol, NxOxT initial post didn't trick me :p

I would agree with Doon that 1998 calendar look fantastic. Not a single event was boring or similar to another. The only thing is to have Catalunya rally as today mixed event and also Sanremo rally return to the 80 mixed event format. Those gravel roads were fantastic.

My thoughts exactly. +1

[Eli]

i still would do 16 events, but it will take long time until they do that again...

[OldF]

my knowledge is limited so i do not know what we could add... maybe safari and an event in some distant place like Cuba and bikini islands or hawai which is in the USA ? so that would draw huge audiences from the Nascar people...or maybe untested markets like south and north korea.... what do you think ? 20 events !!!! go on please enlighten us... :D

Hawai every second year and Alaska every second year. Couple events on neutral ground, north and south pole.

[WRCfan]

I thought the whole idea of having a WORLD Rally Championship is that they travel around the world. Not just Europe. Obviously if you throw enough cash at the FIA, and have utterly s**t roads you will get a rally. It is a shame we are loosing good rallies to average at best ones. Poland's inclusion however I do welcome. That turned out to be a superb event when it was run last.

I just hope NZ doesn't loose out as it is single handedly the biggest, high profile sporting event to visit our shores, and it is nice to have something other than rugby showing up here. :D

[OldF]

I just hope NZ doesn't loose out as it is single handedly the biggest, high profile sporting event to visit our shores, and it is nice to have something other than rugby showing up here. :D

Rugby being obviously big over there but I share your opinion. I’ve always liked NZ with it flowing fast roads.

[Hazza555)]

Rugby being obviously big over there but I share your opinion. I’ve always liked NZ with it flowing fast roads.

It is generally always regarded as having some of the best stages in the world by most drivers. Often the really great drivers excel here. McRae, Sainz, Gronholm, Burns and Loeb to name a few.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Keep NZ ditch Australia

[sollitt]

I thought the whole idea of having a WORLD Rally Championship is that they travel around the world. Surely the whole idea of having a world championship is to have competitors from around the world. Where it plays out doesn't matter. Presently we have a French championship being contested all over the world because only two manufacturers can afford to enter and pay even one contracted driver. Consequently we have talented deserving drivers from around the world who we aren't getting to see.
I'd be happy to see one excellent rally repeated a dozen times if it meant more manufacturers and more seats and something actually resembling a competition.

[Mintexmemory]

Plea to all calender authors - Ireland will never come back if assigned an end of year date. Late spring is what the organisers stated was the only viable timing for a WRC event there.

[Franky]

Late spring is what the organisers stated was the only viable timing for a WRC event there.

Why only late spring?

[scn]

WRC should have events of different character. For example, Alsace and Germany are of almost the same type. One of them should be dropped and probably replaced by Corsica which is one of its kind. Sardinia and Portugal are also very similar in character. One of them should be dropped and make place for a different event, for example a mixed surface event in Tuscany.
On the other hand, Monte, RAC, Sweden, Acropolis, Finland and New Zealand are classic events with unique characteristics and should form the backbone of WRC. Personally, when Monte was dropped I regarded that WRC had lost its quality and image. You can't put events just because of the money that some organizer can find. WRC is not just business and if seen as business, in the long term the image loss will be so great that the money loss will make it not viable.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Rally Australia in Coffs Harbour is not a classic and not truely Australian...

Red gravel no

It's more in the rain Forrest... Yawn

[6789]

There's nothing wrong with Coffs Harbour.. The ARC used to run there for a long time.

It has a lot of political support as well, which is important for sure. I just hope NZ or Aus is on the calendar for 2014

[Hazza555)]

There's nothing wrong with Coffs Harbour.. The ARC used to run there for a long time.

It has a lot of political support as well, which is important for sure. I just hope NZ or Aus is on the calendar for 2014

But it doesn't have that unique standpoint like Perth did. The original rally australia was a one of a kind with it's loose ball bearing gravel.

[AndyRAC]

But it doesn't have that unique standpoint like Perth did. The original rally australia was a one of a kind with it's loose ball bearing gravel.

Exactly - it had it's own unique characteristic. Now, no offence, but it's just another gravel event.

In an ideal WRC, each event should bring something different to the table. Alpine tarmac roads in winter, snow & ice of Scandinavia in winter, very fast gravel in Finland, the dry, dusty car breaking gravel of Acropolis, the high altitude of either Mexico/ Argentina, the fast, flowing, cambered gravel roads of NZ, etc

[Mintexmemory]

Exactly - it had it's own unique characteristic. Now, no offence, but it's just another gravel event.

In an ideal WRC, each event should bring something different to the table. Alpine tarmac roads in winter, snow & ice of Scandinavia in winter, very fast gravel in Finland, the dry, dusty car breaking gravel of Acropolis, the high altitude of either Mexico/ Argentina, the fast, flowing, cambered gravel roads of NZ, etc

You forgot the wonderful Welsh mud ;)

[GigiGalliNo1]

Why not have a absolute WET Tarmac rally before Wales... in.... IRELAND!!!

[Mintexmemory]

Why only late spring?

The nature of the Irish climate makes flooded tarmac unpleasant for both competitors and spectators so November through to early April is felt to be the wrong time for the event to be most attractive. There is then about a 6 week period before closing the roads would interfere with agricultural needs. This continues through to late August / September when harvests have finished. From then until October is a possibility but they'd be competing with Germany, France and Spain for a tarmac rally spot.

[GigiGalliNo1]

I see

[Mintexmemory]

I see
Spooky that! I was answering an earlier point and it answered you too!
I went to both the WRC Ireland events which were great rallies if you are a brains-out afficianado BUT it was very wet. See this pic Dani Sordo Citroen C4 Sloughan Glen Rally Ireland 2009 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/74mex/4128769577/in/set-72157622864009376)

In order to get the spectatators needed to make the event viable they'd have to have it warmer (it's Ireland so the chance of rain is always there. A 'fine day' means it's only drizzling)

[Sulland]

If most of the drivers love Finland, and have that as their favorite, with fast gravel roads, then they should add a Finland look-alike.
Maybe in one of the Baltic countries has the most similar roads?

[Koceens]

The roads in Estonia are quite similar in character. It's very fast although not so many jumps as in Finland. But still plenty of blind crests. The thing that is different is the surface. It is more softer than Finland, I think about the same we saw in Poland.
In Latvia and Lithuania the surface is even more softer and also the roads are usually faster than Estonia, but of course you can always find roads that are more technical.
I would say that rally in Baltic countries would be something between Finland and Poland, the same as the countries are geographically situated. :)

[Eli]

so today they declare next year's calendar?.... or is it tommorrow i'm confused, i remember they said 'till the end of July.

[Eli]

what's up with next year calendar???!!!!

[EightGear]

End of August.

[kober]

Hopefully the calendar of the following years won't be going in the direction of F1, i.e. consist of we-paid-more events only.

[BleAivano]

If most of the drivers love Finland, and have that as their favorite, with fast gravel roads, then they should add a Finland look-alike.
Maybe in one of the Baltic countries has the most similar roads?

That would be Sweden then. ;)

[AndyRAC]

Hopefully the calendar of the following years won't be going in the direction of F1, i.e. consist of we-paid-more events only.

I honestly don't think the WRC would survive if that happened. That is a recipe for disaster.

[Eli]

End of August.
at the beginning they said end of June, then end of July now the end of August???? not cool, there are lot's of speculation of a 12 round calendar for next year, what's the problem with doing the following:
Monte-Carlo
Sweden
Mexico/Brazil
Argentina
Portugal
Italy
Greece
Finland
Germany
New-Zealand
Spain
France
Wales GB
just because Robert Kubica is rallying in the WRC, it doesn't mean they should bring rally Poland....such a mistake

[kober]

just because Robert Kubica is rallying in the WRC, it doesn't mean they should bring rally Poland....such a mistakeWell, one could also say: "Loeb is no longer rallying in the WRC, it doesn't mean they should keep Rally Alsace ... such a mistake"

[Eli]

Well, one could also say: "Loeb is no longer rallying in the WRC, it doesn't mean they should keep Rally Alsace ... such a mistake"
true, i think they should bring back Corsica.

[BleAivano]

at the beginning they said end of June, then end of July now the end of August???? not cool, there are lot's of speculation of a 12 round calendar for next year, what's the problem with doing the following:
Monte-Carlo
Sweden
Mexico/Brazil
Argentina
Portugal
Italy
Greece
Finland
Germany
New-Zealand
Spain
France
Wales GB
just because Robert Kubica is rallying in the WRC, it doesn't mean they should bring rally Poland....such a mistake


I think it seems that Poland will get a spot in 2015 and onwards if the Swedish Rally have to pull out.

[rallyfun]

at the beginning they said end of June, then end of July now the end of August???? not cool, there are lot's of speculation of a 12 round calendar for next year, what's the problem with doing the following:
Monte-Carlo
Sweden
Mexico/Brazil
Argentina
Portugal
Italy
Greece
Finland
Germany
New-Zealand
Spain
France
Wales GB
just because Robert Kubica is rallying in the WRC, it doesn't mean they should bring rally Poland....such a mistake

What is your problem with Poland? How many times have you been there to watch rally?

[SubaruNorway]

just because Robert Kubica is rallying in the WRC, it doesn't mean they should bring rally Poland....such a mistake

Rally Poland was great in 2009 apart from all the hay bales, something similar to Finland can't be a mistake...?

[wrc1600]

I don't get people who criticise rallies they never been to. If they follow rallies from behind the screen there is no difference if rally goes in China or in the Moon.

[rallyfiend]

Agree.

I went to Poland in 2009 as one of my first European WRC events.

It was far better an event than all the GB's, Spain's and Sardinia's that I've been to - and that's at least two of each.

[Franky]

... there is no difference if rally goes in China or in the Moon.

I'm sure that the promoter company would jump through I don't know what if that was possible :D

[Carlo]

at the beginning they said end of June, then end of July now the end of August???? not cool, there are lot's of speculation of a 12 round calendar for next year, what's the problem with doing the following:
Monte-Carlo
Sweden
Mexico/Brazil
Argentina
Portugal
Italy
Greece
Finland
Germany
New-Zealand
Spain
France
Wales GB


A nice list of events that would provide an excellent championship but how many of those countries can now afford the costs involved. Not everyone lives in a subsidised world these days and those that currently do will not be doing so for very much longer.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Ypres should be in it

[tommeke_B]

Ypres should be in it
Financially it is impossible. Ypres tried to get in WRC, and did a "candidate event" in the late 90's (I think it was '96). But what they learned from it wasn't so positive, and I don't think the organizers have any ambitions towards WRC right now (of course that can change). The fact is, to get in WRC, you need a huge sponsor and government support. Ypres has no support from any government right now, except the city letting them use the town center and the roads. Apart from that, it's only 400kms from Trier, 500kms from Strasbourg, think around 600kms from Wales, 600kms from Valence (don't know exactly how far from other Monte Carlo stages).

[Bartolbia84]

The latest rumors, the calendar should remain at 13 events ... so only one of Acropolis, Sardinia and Australia/NZ will leave the wrc.

[Eli]

it's not that i have a problem with Poland, it's just a shame to see Rally Acropolis,or New-Zealand/Australia, or even Sardegna which provided us a great event,if the sport wouldn't lack the cash i wouldn't mind having it.

[scn]

It is strange that one country, France, is the territory of two events and at the same time other countries are struggling to get in the calendar or remain in it. And it is even more strange that one of these two events, Alsace, is very similar to the event of another country, Germany.
I have been to Alsace and Germany as well as many other European rounds of the WRC. To my point of view, Alsace is a second Germany, with significantly less character. I know, it is in the center of Europe and so it has many spectators, but I don't think there is any other advantage in having it in the calendar. If the point is to have tarmac rallies, then Italy can surely be the ground for a wonderful tarmac event, of a unique character. And so does Corsica.

[Bill_]

If the point is to have tarmac rallies, then Italy can surely be the ground for a wonderful tarmac event, of a unique character. And so does Corsica.

San Remo and Corsica were adding their own unique colour to the championship. Wrc needs to have events with unique character!

[Simorally86]

I remember that Poland was an amazing event, very similar to Finland, so very spectacular! However, i think that it's not possible cut off Acropolis or one between NZ and Australia...these are "monument" for the wrc! Sardinia it's a great event too, with it's own caracter...but Alsace, why Alsace in the calendar? Onestly it's the worse event on calendar, morover with this WRC cars, that on termac are not so spectacular like 12/15 years ago...it's a copy of Germany! SanRemo unfortuately has no money to come back, and probably Italian federation neither want it...so cut off Alsace, and put in Poland! i'm shure that everybody will be very happy!

[rallyfiend]

Yeah, that's the best way to make the WRC stronger and more attractive.

Get rid of its best promoted, highest media coverage, best attended event.

[tommeke_B]

@Simorally86, you are right that the current WRC cars are not so spectacular in tarmac hairpins and junctions. I prefer watching the cars on faster places, and don't have any complaints about the spectacle modern rallycars provide... :)

I wouldn't mind a tarmac event in Poland (or Czech Republic), in stead of the gravel Rajd Polski (no matter how nice it is). :) The bumpy narrow tarmac roads in PL and CZ, that would be a new challenge for the teams and drivers.

[Eli]

they should do the following:
Monte-Carlo
Sweden
Mexico/Brazil
Portugal
Argentina
Greece
Sardegna
Poland
Finland
Germany
New-Zealand
Spain
Wales GB
and in 2015 bring back Corsica if possible, and if Rally Sweden can't be there, put Norway instead or even Canada or something like that. One more thing, i really wish they would bring Rally Australia back to Perth, although if it comes down to NZ or Australia, take NZ.

[BleAivano]

San Remo and Corsica were adding their own unique colour to the championship. Wrc needs to have events with unique character!

unique is long gone within the wrc, all rallies now is the same formula including the names.

[BleAivano]

they should do the following:
Monte-Carlo
Sweden
Mexico/Brazil
Portugal
Argentina
Greece
Sardegna
Poland
Finland
Germany
New-Zealand
Spain
Wales GB
and in 2015 bring back Corsica if possible, and if Rally Sweden can't be there, put Norway instead or even Canada or something like that. One more thing, i really wish they would bring Rally Australia back to Perth, although if it comes down to NZ or Australia, take NZ.

Norway pulled out because they couldn't get enough sponsors/spectators to get a viable budget. With higher costs I doubt that they would do better now.

[Simorally86]

@Simorally86, you are right that the current WRC cars are not so spectacular in tarmac hairpins and junctions. I prefer watching the cars on faster places, and don't have any complaints about the spectacle modern rallycars provide... :)

I wouldn't mind a tarmac event in Poland (or Czech Republic), in stead of the gravel Rajd Polski (no matter how nice it is). :) The bumpy narrow tarmac roads in PL and CZ, that would be a new challenge for the teams and drivers.

Yes you are right! Est Europe termac rallys are amazing! Fast roads, bumpy and often with a portion of gravel during the stage! Barum rally will be amazing in calendar! About modern rally cars...well, i'm a nostalgic of the first era of WRC cars...on termac was really high spectacle...i live close to SanRemo, and i had the fortune to see every year SanRemo, MonteCarlo, Tour de Corse and often old Catalunya in Vic...in my opinion there is no comparison with nowadays cars...instead, on gravel, modern wrc are amazing as well!

[Mirek]

Yes you are right! Est Europe termac rallys are amazing! Fast roads, bumpy and often with a portion of gravel during the stage! Barum rally will be amazing in calendar! About modern rally cars...well, i'm a nostalgic of the first era of WRC cars...on termac was really high spectacle...i live close to SanRemo, and i had the fortune to see every year SanRemo, MonteCarlo, Tour de Corse and often old Catalunya in Vic...in my opinion there is no comparison with nowadays cars...instead, on gravel, modern wrc are amazing as well!

Barum rally was a candidate event in 2005 but in current situation in our rallying I think it's impossible to find budget to organize WRC event. Also for spectators Poland is sure better now because they don't have the safety craziness what we have now.

[Bill_]

unique is long gone within the wrc, all rallies now is the same formula including the names.

Stiil, there are events that differ. Monte Carlo, Sweeden, GB, Acropolis, Finland are such examples.

[wrc1600]

Agree.

I went to Poland in 2009 as one of my first European WRC events.

It was far better an event than all the GB's, Spain's and Sardinia's that I've been to - and that's at least two of each.

Agree except for Sardinia, always had great memories from there.

[BleAivano]

Stiil, there are events that differ. Monte Carlo, Sweeden, GB, Acropolis, Finland are such examples.

The point is that even if there are some differences regarding the actual surface, they all (more or less) use the same formula.

They're all named the exact same way, Rally X.
Most Rallies are three day events.
Their more or less the same length
They're all have 3-4 stages before lunch and then after lunch its the same 3-4 stages repeated.
They all/most of them got at least one super special.

The only possible unique with Rally Sweden is that its a shared event between Sweden and Norway.

[Eli]

so in a couple of weeks time, new calendar for 2014 set to be revealed...

[MartijnS]

That will be your best day of the year I think!

[Eli]

No, but it's agenizing to wait which rally they will take off the calendar

[Franky]

No, but it's agenizing to wait which rally they will take off the calendar

You plan on going to the 1st event?

[Sulland]

Would be bad for the variation in the WRC to loose its winter-rally if it is not replaced on the calendar.
What Snow event could replace Sweden on such a short notice?

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Tunturiralli. :D
ETUSIVU (http://www.arcticrally.fi/)

[Eli]

You plan on going to the 1st event?
yes actually :)

[Eli]

iRally | The free independent Rally App for the iPhone, iPad and Android (http://www.irallylive.com/ir_news.htm?00004714&15)
looks like Rally Sweden might not event be in the calendar for next year....if they don't find funding soon enough the WRC could be without a snow rally!!!!

[rallyfiend]

FIA denies Acropolis Rally already dropped from 2014 WRC schedule - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109257)

Seems Sweden was a bit of talk. Says all events have signed the contract.

[Gregor-y]

Would be bad for the variation in the WRC to loose its winter-rally if it is not replaced on the calendar.
What Snow event could replace Sweden on such a short notice?
Sno*Drift in Michigan is run the last weekend of January... ;)

I don't think anyone in the US can organize a WRC event but hold out hope for Canada (preferably Ontario or Quebec).

[Mirek]

Sno*Drift in Michigan is run the last weekend of January... ;)

I thought that studs were not allowed in that event. I doubt WRC teams would be interested...

[Eli]

FIA denies Acropolis Rally already dropped from 2014 WRC schedule - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109257)
Well it looks like Rally Acropolis is ok.

[kober]

If I recall correctly, there was some talk by the FIA that all the regional zones should have a representative on the WRC calendar. So, what do you think about the following twelve-round schedule?

- Monte Carlo
- Sweden
- Finland
- Deutschland
- RAC
- Acropolis
- Mexico (NACAM)
- Argentina (CODASUR)
- Japan (APRC)
- New Zealand/Australia (APRC)
- Safari (ARC)
- MERC round

[Motorsportfun]

NO OFFICIAL CONFIRMATION, but rumors in the Service Park says that 2014 WRC will say goodbye to Acropolis. SHAME on you if confirmed!!!

[focus206]

If I recall correctly, there was some talk by the FIA that all the regional zones should have a representative on the WRC calendar. So, what do you think about the following twelve-round schedule?

- Monte Carlo
- Sweden
- Finland
- Deutschland
- RAC
- Acropolis
- Mexico (NACAM)
- Argentina (CODASUR)
- Japan (APRC)
- New Zealand/Australia (APRC)
- Safari (ARC)
- MERC round

way too many events outside Europe, I don't think something like that is possible... and when was FIA talking about that?

[Prisoner Monkeys]

The Acropolis has been a shadow of its former self for years. It's hardly even deserved the title of "Acropolis". The only shame would be in continuing to run such a half-baked event and pretending that it was still worthy of claiming some kind of legendary status.

[tommeke_B]

The Acropolis has been a shadow of its former self for years. It's hardly even deserved the title of "Acropolis". The only shame would be in continuing to run such a half-baked event and pretending that it was still worthy of claiming some kind of legendary status.

Were you living under a rock last year? Watch last year's route and itinerary before saying "for years"...

[NxOxT]

last true acropolis was in 2004... if it goes... it goes.

[Motorsportfun]

Were you living under a rock last year? Watch last year's route and itinerary before saying "for years"...

Totally agree. Greece last year had a great route and gave true drama to the championship (this year too!). Giving up Greece and leaving an event w/out any tradition like the Coffs Harbour's one (seems rotation has gone) is just bul**hit.

Shame on FIA and Promoter.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Were you living under a rock last year? Watch last year's route and itinerary before saying "for years"...
One good route does not make up for years of mediocrity. Especially if you're going to criticise other events for being added to the calendar without any pedigree despite their routes.

Sometimes I think people would rather have twelve "traditional" rallies with terrible routes instead of twelve brand-new rallies with fantastic routes. The irony is that those "traditional" rallies were new, once upon a time. The only way they could become "traditional" was by staying on the calendar. And yet, people would happily deny new events the chance to establish themselves as part of that ongoing tradition just because they're new.

After all, what if Finland or Monte Carlo had never existed, and were only just proposed for the first time today? Would people still oppose them because they weren't "traditional"?

[AndyRAC]

Personally, if the organisers have to competely change an event, just so they can get in the WRC – Then they shouldn’t do it. An event shouldn’t change it’s character purely for the WRC. RallyGB is a prime example of this.

[Eli]

well if i had to choose between NZ and Greece it would be NZ, far better rally

[Mirek]

After all, what if Finland or Monte Carlo had never existed, and were only just proposed for the first time today? Would people still oppose them because they weren't "traditional"?

That's of course a possible point of view but in my opinion far more important is that those two are classics known by everybody. We all agree that the problem of WRC is not enough attention by the public but how can You make public more interested when You remove those events they know and replace them by something anonymous no matter how good it is? The name of the event does a lot. Even my granny knows what is Rallye Monte Carlo and believe it or not she doesn't know what is WRC. If the championship was perfectly healthy it could afford to make experiments. In the shape it is now I think it's a must to keep all the strong points and to work on weak ones.

[EightGear]

Delayed again until end of september. https://www.facebook.com/rallymag/posts/707415882606841

[scn]

The Acropolis has been a shadow of its former self for years. It's hardly even deserved the title of "Acropolis". The only shame would be in continuing to run such a half-baked event and pretending that it was still worthy of claiming some kind of legendary status.
I wonder if you have driven in any of the "new" or "old" stages. I have driven through all of them, old and new, and I see no difference in character. Can you please explain what is the difference you have observed?

The only thing that I don't like is the fewer kilometers, but this is for all WRC rallies. It is impossible to have the Acropolis of 1980 or 1991 because, simply, no manufacturer will be able to afford the cost, no FIA regulation will be kept and the organizer will go bankrupt.

[amilk]

I wonder if you have driven in any of the "new" or "old" stages. I have driven through all of them, old and new, and I see no difference in character. Can you please explain what is the difference you have observed?

The only thing that I don't like is the fewer kilometers, but this is for all WRC rallies. It is impossible to have the Acropolis of 1980 or 1991 because, simply, no manufacturer will be able to afford the cost, no FIA regulation will be kept and the organizer will go bankrupt.

I think the rally had more caracter before Loutraki still in the time when the base was in Kamena Vourla or Delphi. To much to spend two days near to the Loutraki mountains. Peloponesos stages are great.
But this is not what counts I believe. The Acropolis rally has still great caracter and more than lot of rally in the calendar and always create interesting races. If that would be the main decision factor no doubt it will be the calendar. The promoter interested on short term profit therefore the entry ticket what counts. And Greece not strong enough nowadays in that.

[scn]

I think the rally had more caracter before Loutraki still in the time when the base was in Kamena Vourla or Delphi. To much to spend two days near to the Loutraki mountains. Peloponesos stages are great.
But this is not what counts I believe. The Acropolis rally has still great caracter and more than lot of rally in the calendar and always create interesting races. If that would be the main decision factor no doubt it will be the calendar. The promoter interested on short term profit therefore the entry ticket what counts. And Greece not strong enough nowadays in that.
Plan for 2014 is to have only one day around Loutraki. One day would be to south Peloponese, to the mountains that old Acropolis of the 70's and early 80's used to go.
The stages around Loutraki are great, but I agree that they should be used only in one day.
I agree that the whole problem is the intention of the promoter to get (rob) the biggest amount of money possible. It's a shame and a very bad sign about the future of WRC.

[Eli]

it seems as time will go by it will be a question of which rally shouldn't be dropped rather than which rally should be added... with the way the WRC is being handled. Look at Formula 1, it started with 8 races and now has 19-20-21, WRC started with 10-13 events and remains the same (with only 10 years of the championship being more than that)...

[amilk]

....and we are speking about character of the stages or rally. I just see pics, videos from stage 1-4 in Germany- I dont see any character, it could be anywhere almost, except Mosel vineyard parts . Except what is the character of this rally - Panzerplatte?
The start ceremony in Cologne was great scenery a we need like that to promote. From market point of view we need the German Rally no doubt but if we are spekaing about character, Greece will have always more.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

That's of course a possible point of view but in my opinion far more important is that those two are classics known by everybody. We all agree that the problem of WRC is not enough attention by the public but how can You make public more interested when You remove those events they know and replace them by something anonymous no matter how good? The name of the event does a lot. Even my granny knows what is Rallye Monte Carlo and believe it or not she doesn't know what is WRC. If the championship was perfectly healthy it could afford to make experiments. In the shape it is now I think it's a must to keep all the strong points and to work on weak ones.
But if there is an event that no longer lives up to its name and whose name is its only asset, why should it be allowed to continue? You might as well just put that name on another rally - like the way the Dakar moved from northern Africa to South America - and let it reap the benefits.

Maintaining "traditional" rallies for the sake of "tradition" is a bad idea. Sooner or later, the calendar is going to need new blood.

[6789]

Totally agree. Greece last year had a great route and gave true drama to the championship (this year too!). Giving up Greece and leaving an event w/out any tradition like the Coffs Harbour's one (seems rotation has gone) is just bul**hit.

Shame on FIA and Promoter.

So Rally Australia is in for 3 years?

[Mirek]

But if there is an event that no longer lives up to its name and whose name is its only asset, why should it be allowed to continue? You might as well just put that name on another rally - like the way the Dakar moved from northern Africa to South America - and let it reap the benefits.

Maintaining "traditional" rallies for the sake of "tradition" is a bad idea. Sooner or later, the calendar is going to need new blood.

Which event are You speaking about?

[Mintexmemory]

So, if Greece and NZ no longer figure, Tour de Corse and Sanremo are ignored by the national bodies. Japan / Cyprus / Bulgaria seemingly not in the running for a WRC spot - would a 'pirate series' like Kerry Packer did with cricket be possible? Even throw in a 'Rally of Northern Britain'. Marketing points: tourism, re-engagement with fans of classics, variety of event. Would have to start as a formula libre as there wouldn't be any manufacturer interest. Pipedream?

[makinen_fan]

I wouldn't think that it is possible for now with the current economic climate. But it worked well for the IRC a few years back. But that had as principle that each event paid a handsome amount to be in the championship, which is the primary reason the above events may not be in WRC next year.

[Gregor-y]

So, if Greece and NZ no longer figure, Tour de Corse and Sanremo are ignored by the national bodies. Japan / Cyprus / Bulgaria seemingly not in the running for a WRC spot - would a 'pirate series' like Kerry Packer did with cricket be possible? Even throw in a 'Rally of Northern Britain'. Marketing points: tourism, re-engagement with fans of classics, variety of event. Would have to start as a formula libre as there wouldn't be any manufacturer interest. Pipedream?
Sounds a bit like the idea behind the IRC when it started minus the upper limit being S2000 cars. Better split times and live coverage, too.

[kober]

AUTOhebdo.fr | WRC 2014-13 rallyes avec la Pologne (http://www.autohebdo.fr/rallye/wrc/breve-26-1-68223/280813-wrc-2014-13-rallyes-avec-la-pologne) Thirteen rounds. Acropolis out. Poland in.

[Lisa Statham]

I'd quite like to see something with more snow. I know theres already Sweden. Maybe more locations outside of Europe. I'd like to see them do the safari rally again.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Mintexmemory, Packer and Rupert Murdoch got involved in a dispute over the rugby league rights here in Australia about fifteen years ago. It ended in a complete disaster.

A rival series wouldn't work, because it would need FIA accreditation. And the FIA won't give it.

[scn]

Acropolis out.
Practically, this moment that it happens it is the death of Acropolis. If it happened some years ago, this would not be the case. But now it is.
Despite what few ignorant say, Acropolis is still so tough that it cannot be part of the ERC and, of course, it cannot be part of the Greek championship (it stopped being part of it years ago, simply because drivers complained that it is too tough). Acropolis out of the WRC cannot be done. The private company that is the organizer of Acropolis is a bunch of people that organize it just to keep it alive and give their own money for it. The company does not have any other activity except Acropolis, and I suppose that now it will not have any purpose in maintaining itself. When FIA will need to get back an event that also has some element of "machine breaking" and is not just another gravel sprint or a colorless tarmac "rally", it will have to create a new one. I wonder how and where.
The most stupid thing behind this decision is that for the first time Acropolis of 2014 would have 3-year government support for promoting tourism in the region of South Peloponese, support that is rumored to have been given by the prime minister himself as he was born in that area. FIA chooses to throw to the garbage basket this support and I do not think they will have it again. After all, FIA and its promoter never deserved it.

[Barreis]

What's this?
Pubblicata la prima bozza di calendario WRC 2014. | MotorSport Italia (http://formulaoneitalia.altervista.org/Blog/pubblicata-la-bozza-calendario-wrc-2014/)

[Mintexmemory]

What's this?
Pubblicata la prima bozza di calendario WRC 2014. | MotorSport Italia (http://formulaoneitalia.altervista.org/Blog/pubblicata-la-bozza-calendario-wrc-2014/)

B, Your questions really are too curt / capable of mis-interpretation.
The strict reply to your question is - An italian report on next year's WRC calendar
Alternatively you could be asking for a translation as Google isn't working in your region.
Or you may have already translated and are querying the content of the article which claims that both Acropolis AND NORF are not in next year's calendar. :eek:

[Barreis]

Oh, man, NOT is real answer for you... I have google translator but looking for truth if Finske is out...

[Miika]

"Finland has a contract with the promoter for 2014" says chairman of AKK-Motorsport and "Rally Finland is in its usual place in July-August in the calendar draft" says Jarmo Mahonen:
AKK:n puheenjohtaja: Vuoden 2014 MM-rallista on sopimus | Yle Uutiset | yle.fi (http://yle.fi/uutiset/akkn_puheenjohtaja_vuoden_2014_mm-rallista_on_sopimus/6806020)

[Eli]

so to conclude from all that's written here, 13 rounds next year includes:
Monte-Carlo
Sweden
Mexico
Portugal
Argentina
Sardegna
Poland
Finland
Germany
Australia
France
Spain
Wales GB

[NxOxT]

Looks good...12 or even 10 rounds would be better.

[focus206]

Rumors in Italian forums talk about moving the event from Sardinia to the North-East, probably on asphalt... but well, every year there are similar rumors about it...

[Motorsportfun]

AUTOhebdo.fr | WRC 2014-13 rallyes avec la Pologne (http://www.autohebdo.fr/rallye/wrc/breve-26-1-68223/280813-wrc-2014-13-rallyes-avec-la-pologne) Thirteen rounds. Acropolis out. Poland in.

Like I said last week...

[Motorsportfun]

Rumors in Italian forums talk about moving the event from Sardinia to the North-East, probably on asphalt... but well, every year there are similar rumors about it...

Still rumors. Discussions with 3 regions (North-East, Sardinia and a possible rally around Misano MotoGP circuit - as Rally hub - ) are ongoing. Keep calm till October 1st.

[sollitt]

Looks good...12 or even 10 rounds would be better.Absolutely agree. 10 rounds is plenty. One a month & December/January off.

[Toyoda]

Ill be pissed if NZ is cut for Ausi, those slimy Ausi's already stole Pavlova, Split Enz, Russell Crowe etc...hahaha...but seriously...STOP IT

[Prisoner Monkeys]

I wouldn'tind it if Italy went back to tarmac. I think the WRC could do with a another dedicated tarmac round. I kind if miss Ireland and Bulgaria for that reason.

[Hazza555)]

Ill be pissed if NZ is cut for Ausi, those slimy Ausi's already stole Pavlova, Split Enz, Russell Crowe etc...hahaha...but seriously...STOP IT

They can keep Russell, but yeah :mad: . Coffs Harbour is the biggest waste of a calendar slot in the entire championship. Last time around they said the roads are bit like NZ... Might as well just have a rally in NZ then!!! If the teams are going to come right across the other side of the world, surely they can take one more step and come to some of the best roads in the world!!!! It's not rocket science.

[Barreis]

I wouldn't be against swap Finland and NZ...

[Lisa Statham]

I agree with having more tarmac based events too. I think the WRC need to get out of Europe more though, have more of a diversity. I know it makes things more complicated and harder to organise. But hey ho! 13 events seems too much, 10 would be better, allowing a rest period.

[amilk]

I disagree with everything :)
Sardinia and Greece in the same time would be a big loss. Two spectacular gravel rally. Tarmac is not realy spectacular with this cars if the stage dry and clean as usually. We want live stages and promotion but average Joe see that cars ar cruising on tarmac without any sliding etc...

[tommeke_B]

Tarmac is spectacular, you just need to find the right places. And the WRC TV location manager (who is the same for years, don't think it changed because the promotor changed) doesn't seem to find the right places. On gravel there are also many extraordinary places who never make it to TV footage, the only difference is that gravel is nice(r) everywhere... The huge amount of spectacular youtube videos proves my point. ;)

[cytrus]

I hope that the WRC will go next year to the Polish.
In 2009, they were all very happy. A lot of fans on the route from many countries created a memorable atmosphere :)

[Eli]

i hope they bring back Japan, Corisca( after all Loeb won't be competing after this year) and Ireland..one more thing, if they continue with Rally Australia put it back where it belongs-to Perth!!!

[AndyRAC]

Maybe the FiA should tell the various countries were they hold their event....... So if Australia want a WRC event, it has to be in Perth. Similarly, France must use Corsica, GB the centre of the country, etc However, I doubt they have the power to make this happen.

Personally, I want a more even split of gravel/ tarmac - dry, dusty gravel events are all the same. Get rid of a few of them. Manufacturers are in it to sell more road cars - to be used mainly on tarmac......

[tommeke_B]

I would love to see mixed events, but in the meaning of really mixed. Make Portugal or Catalunya half gravel, half tarmac, but not splitted up in days, let one stage be half-half, like Cyprus (IRC) was... Tarmac with gravel setup can be so spectacular, it's unbelievable... :)

[Eli]

i would bring back cyprus as a mixed event, and and also it could be nice to add some tarmac to Japan, by the way, does anyone know why they are not bringing back Rally Japan,Norway,New-Zealand???

[focus206]

i would bring back cyprus as a mixed event, and and also it could be nice to add some tarmac to Japan, by the way, does anyone know why they are not bringing back Rally Japan,Norway,New-Zealand???

Because we can't have a 30-events calendar... you would bring back everything :D

[Barreis]

Seems that some countries have privileged status and some other can't get their slot in calendar at all... Can't see that as fair system... Rotation is the best solution, it seems...

[makinen_fan]

Rotation is not at all a good idea. It creates confusion especially for the fans that are not so engaged with the sport. I remember when I was younger and not so involved in rallying and looking at the review of 1995 and I was wondering how can WRC be without Acropolis and 1000 Lakes, and then 1996 no Monte Carlo. It does not provide a consistent spectacle for the casual fan.

I also agree that at least a round of full mixed conditions would be interesting, may it be Spain, Portugal or Cyprus (although Cyprus is not going to happen in the near future IMHO due to economic crisis). Tarmac with gravel setup/tyres is very exciting to watch!

[Eli]

Because we can't have a 30-events calendar... you would bring back everything :D

no, only these 3/4 (and if cyprus doesn't work out put Ireland instead) and honestly if F1 can have 20 rounds i think the WRC can have more rounds than it has now, just not in this economic situation...

[Barreis]

Casual fan doesn't know who are works drivers these days... I know this 'cos when talking about WRC on coffie with friends they don't know who're the works drivers. And some time ago they knew it...

[focus206]

no, only these 3/4 (and if cyprus doesn't work out put Ireland instead) and honestly if F1 can have 20 rounds i think the WRC can have more rounds than it has now, just not in this economic situation...

I'm not even sure WRC would be able to have so many rounds, and even if it could, why? I'd rather have 12 events than that many, and like me many others, including most probably teams and drivers...
and what's with "if F1 has 20 rounds"? this is WRC, it's not even a circuit racing series, how can you compare them??

[Lisa Statham]

F1 has more money poured into it than WRC does. Making it easier for them to arrange 20 events.

[amilk]

Tarmac is spectacular, you just need to find the right places. And the WRC TV location manager (who is the same for years, don't think it changed because the promotor changed) doesn't seem to find the right places. On gravel there are also many extraordinary places who never make it to TV footage, the only difference is that gravel is nice(r) everywhere... The huge amount of spectacular youtube videos proves my point. ;)

No need to prove..I saw that's why I'm saying. I was speaking about average Joe who is the target of the promoter. Even with a better WRC TV the difference is big for somone who is not a hardcore fun. He will not identify small details on the coverage which shows that someone was on limit.
The calendar influenced by manufacturer whishes (market) and the promoter short term profit target they don't realy care about tradition etc. Some rotation could be OK (2-3 event /year) but a strong base is needed IMHO.

[kober]

F1 has more money poured into it than WRC does. Making it easier for them to arrange 20 events.Also, circuit racing weekend is usually two-three days. You can have a drive flown on Thursday, and ship him home on Sunday. It's not possible with WRC, where an event takes seven to nine days with recce, etc.

In my opinion twelve rounds is optimal. Just have half of them outside of Europe, to make it a true world championship.

[focus206]

Also, circuit racing weekend is usually two-three days. You can have a drive flown on Thursday, and ship him home on Sunday. It's not possible with WRC, where an event takes seven to nine days with recce, etc.

In my opinion twelve rounds is optimal. Just have half of them outside of Europe, to make it a true world championship.

6 events outside Europe?? It would be way too expensive, so we'd have privateers contesting basically only 6 events, since it's very rare they put step outside Europe...
In my opinion "world championship" should mean the best rallies of the world, more than "rallies in every continent"... of course, we need some rallies out of the old continent too, and to me New Zealand, Australia and Argentina are totally fine, but I hardly see more than 3, maximum 4 rallies in other continents in one season... and I dislike the fact that they kept Mexico just because it's a North American round, they should have dropped it after those stones accidents... IMO

[6789]

They can keep Russell, but yeah :mad: . Coffs Harbour is the biggest waste of a calendar slot in the entire championship. Last time around they said the roads are bit like NZ... Might as well just have a rally in NZ then!!! If the teams are going to come right across the other side of the world, surely they can take one more step and come to some of the best roads in the world!!!! It's not rocket science.

Come on, us Aussies have to win something :D

But seriously, it is a shame that NZ isn't going ahead. Hopefully Coffs Harbour can continue to improve

[scn]

The most spectacular thing I have ever seen was in Acropolis 1988, Oriol, Integrale, gravel suspension and gravel tyres on tarmac. However, gravel tyres are very easily damaged on tarmac and it needs very careful thought if it is to have mixed stages.
WRC should have all its events different one from the other and with distinct character each one. One snow, one tarmac/ice, one gravel like NZ, one mud, one typical gravel like Porto or Sardinia, one tough gravel, one asphalt like Germany, one mountain asphalt like Corsica or Italy, one like Finland. Also, no country should have two events, even if the FIA offices are in it.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Maybe the FiA should tell the various countries were they hold their event....... So if Australia want a WRC event, it has to be in Perth. Similarly, France must use Corsica, GB the centre of the country, etc However, I doubt they have the power to make this happen.

You cannot say for Australia the rally has to be in Perth.

In this case, Perth cannot have the WRC, because the state and local government do not support it. They did not see it financially viable to hold it here. They as well as the tourism council were the ones putting up the bill to pay for the road closures as they well most of them were on private property and having to police everything, having organizers etc its very expensive. Australia is very far away and things not only in Perth but Sydney and Melbourne. Is expensive. Food, accommodation, travel etc for locals.

I won't be attending Rally Australia in Coffs Harbour because it'll cost me $600 to fly. About $500 for week accommodation. Rental car would be $350 but half if I share with another photographer or fan. Fuel which will cost for cheapest car, smallest engine about $50 each day. And I would only make about $700 from the weekend working.

Regarding having the Rally in Coffs or Auckland for NZ the local people are funding the rally. Greece have their funds from someone or a few big companies so obviously it'll stay in that region, but Cyprus didn't have good organizers from what I heard which made the rally not so good, but they probably had good funding.

Corsica, aren't there because of what reason? Why didn't the FIA let them continue? Logistics with the island? Going to and from with boat transport etc

Alsace has more money more organizers?

[dupanton]

Tarmac is not realy spectacular with this cars if the stage dry and clean as usually.

Just got this out of the italy topic:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7w4TwOJm3I

[A FONDO]

Tarmac is not realy spectacular with this cars if the stage dry and clean as usually.
I am sorry the forum limit is only 5 emoticons

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[GigiGalliNo1]

I also say MORE Tarmac rallies!!!

[GigiGalliNo1]

Just got this out of the italy topic:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7w4TwOJm3I

Looks like Gigi Galli controlling! Ha ha ha

[Rallyper]

As long as they don´t take away NORF, Rally GB, Portugal, Greece, Germany - a various calendar with spectacular rounds should be the way.

[stefanvv]

Monte? I can't live without Monte in WRC :D

[Rallyper]

Monte? I can't live without Monte in WRC :D

OK, but remember this yr, when stages were cancelled because of dodgy reasons...

[miniwintz]

Monte's fiasco pictures French organization at its finest :) They should take lessons from NORF

[amilk]

Just got this out of the italy topic:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7w4TwOJm3I

Nice moment for sure and you can catch some of them for sure on a whole event- then let's see a tarmac WRC in Italy in North East region and we will compare after with some gravel event from the past.

[amilk]

I am sorry the forum limit is only 5 emoticons

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Yes maybe my compariosn base is too strong. I started to visit WRC events when GrA cars driven by Auriol, KKK, Colin etc. There was no worry on tarmac. But this cars are others which is good at the end - evolution bring forward. I decide always to go to Monte or not just a week before when I see what is the wheather forecast. Then remember Bulgaria WRC round some year ago....was spectacular?
Other example Aquie Term region in Italy was part of SanRemo end of 90's for sure some Italyan guy remember to that here in the forum - if they will chose such tarmac stages I will like it.

[A FONDO]

What is the problem now - the cars or the roads, or everything? If spectaculat for you means swaying cars that slide around, you should change the sport. On tarmac rally spectacular is to watch the cars being tamed with least time loss to brake properly, to find the best lines without losing the weight balance, etc. Many differences can be found even on a single fast/flat corner (of course if you know what to look for). For me it is 100 times more interesting to watch Basso keeping the car like train on rails instead of some clown who pulls the handbrake on every second corner.

[Mirek]

OK, but remember this yr, when stages were cancelled because of dodgy reasons...

There was ONE canceled stage in last FIVE years of Monte Carlo and it was due to obvious reason. There is number of canceled stages in every season of WRC but You don't mind that elsewhere as it seems.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Rally New Zealand pulls out of 2014 Calendar to let Rally Australia have a 3 year stint, to make sponsors happy and then NZ will hold a WRC round for 3 years.

I hate this, Rally NZ every year! And I live IN Australia!!

[rallyfiend]

Rally NZ pushes for three-year WRC contract - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/09/02/rally-nz-pushes-for-three-year-wrc-contract/)

This article includes a quote from the NZ Chairman that seems to suggest that they were dumped from the calendar, and that they've come up with this 3-year rotation idea, but that no-one else seems keen on it....

[amilk]

What is the problem now - the cars or the roads, or everything? If spectaculat for you means swaying cars that slide around, you should change the sport. On tarmac rally spectacular is to watch the cars being tamed with least time loss to brake properly, to find the best lines without losing the weight balance, etc. Many differences can be found even on a single fast/flat corner (of course if you know what to look for). For me it is 100 times more interesting to watch Basso keeping the car like train on rails instead of some clown who pulls the handbrake on every second corner.

Read back - I said the gravel more spectacular for average Joe and for promotion if the tarmac dry and clean . Sure I like also gravel more maybe it's coming from the fact that I have/had always some camera in front of my head and gravel more picturesce. No problem for me if we have different views the life is like this and it's good.

[Rallyper]

There was ONE canceled stage in last FIVE years of Monte Carlo and it was due to obvious reason. There is number of canceled stages in every season of WRC but You don't mind that elsewhere as it seems.

Yeah, maybe, but this time it was determing the outcome of the rally.

[sollitt]

Rally NZ pushes for three-year WRC contract - Speedcafe (http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/09/02/rally-nz-pushes-for-three-year-wrc-contract/)

This article includes a quote from the NZ Chairman that seems to suggest that they were dumped from the calendar, and that they've come up with this 3-year rotation idea, but that no-one else seems keen on it.... You're reading too much into it.

[dupanton]

Yeah, maybe, but this time it was determing the outcome of the rally.

As was it in Germany... With Panzerplatte, Neuville would have been much further from Sordo going into the last 2 stages...

[Eli]

so let me get it right, the FIA are dropping Greece & New-Zealand, they should be ashamed of themselves...

[GigiGalliNo1]

If you listen to the podcast, FIA and new promotor are keen on this new rotation time period of three years and praised Rally NZ organizers!!!! Podcast/Interview on iRally app!!

[Rallyper]

As was it in Germany... With Panzerplatte, Neuville would have been much further from Sordo going into the last 2 stages...

Comparing those two rallies isn´t fair. OK, Panzerplatte was in an ongoing rally, while MC did cancel two last stages, even though Loeb had an 1:39 advantage the race could have ended in a different way during the circumstanses.

[Livewireshock]

Every year this thread appears and every year the same arguments are made. Everyone wants a round of the WRC in their own backyard. However, it is not possible to fit everyone into the calendar. To work into the future, the reality is that we can not be nostalgic. Even Rally Sweden is crying poor at the expense of hosting a round for 2014 onwards. Unless there is major corporate and/or governmental support, it is virtually impossible to host a WRC event in any country.

The WRC has to satisfy the needs of the established fans in the rally heartland of Europe, but at the same time, they should support new markets to ensure growth. Which will never happen if people selfishly limit the championship to being a glorified extended ERC. It is my opinion that there should be a round held in every FIA regional area, mandating an African round, a Middle Eastern round in addition to Europe, Asia Pacific and Americas. How can the sport grow if people are not able to travel to Europe. There should be a local regional event, so local competitors can compete, officials can gain greater experience and spectators can witness the best in the world.

Europe is economically depressed and the growth markets are all outside of there. So for manufacturers, there is little to be gained from rallying only mostly within Europe. Yes there should be a bottom line for what a season costs, but I believe that bottom line should include more non-European rounds.

[Eli]

so a prediction of next year's calendar would be:
Monte-Carlo
Sweden
Mexico
Portugal
Argentina
Italy
Poland
Finland
Germany
Australia
France
Spain
Wales GB
am I correct?

[Franky]

Just wait for them to publish the calendar

[NxOxT]

so a prediction of next year's calendar would be:
Monte-Carlo
Sweden
Mexico
Portugal
Argentina
Italy
Poland
Finland
Germany
Australia
France
Spain
Wales GB
am I correct?

no try again...

[A FONDO]

:D

[sollitt]

so let me get it right, the FIA are dropping Greece & New-Zealand, they should be ashamed of themselves...No, you're not right.

[BleAivano]

personally I don't want more tarmac rallies, there are more then enough tarmac rounds already.
IMO leave the tarmac to the circuit racing boys & girls. A proper rally is held on gravel roads or snow/ice roads.

[WRCfan]

No, you're not right.

Loosing an event like NZ is a loss to the calendar. FIA didn't drop us, we dropped ourselves in favour of trying to attract sponsors by trying to get a 3-year on, 3-year off deal with the FIA. I highly doubt that it will ever return now that we relinquished our spot.

All the drivers have said for years how good the event is, how superb the conditions of the roads are, and how they all look forward to this round as much as Finland. Never heard anyone say that about most of the other rounds. We shall see. For Kiwi's we now need to get our a$$es over to Finland to see it live. :D

[Toyoda]

Loosing an event like NZ is a loss to the calendar. FIA didn't drop us, we dropped ourselves in favour of trying to attract sponsors by trying to get a 3-year on, 3-year off deal with the FIA. I highly doubt that it will ever return now that we relinquished our spot.

All the drivers have said for years how good the event is, how superb the conditions of the roads are, and how they all look forward to this round as much as Finland. Never heard anyone say that about most of the other rounds. We shall see. For Kiwi's we now need to get our a$$es over to Finland to see it live. :D

Well said

[AndyRAC]

personally I don't want more tarmac rallies, there are more then enough tarmac rounds already.
IMO leave the tarmac to the circuit racing boys & girls. A proper rally is held on gravel roads or snow/ice roads.

The sport started on Tarmac. If you want to find the best all round driver - then you must have an even split of surfaces.

[GigiGalliNo1]

A certain Middle Eastern nation looks to be in the 2014 Calendar ;)

[Mintexmemory]

A certain Middle Eastern nation looks to be in the 2014 Calendar ;)

Had to be or there'd be a lot less cars in the WRC class!

[Mintexmemory]

The sport started on Tarmac. If you want to find the best all round driver - then you must have an even split of surfaces.
My only beef is that the 3 late summer / autumn tarmac rallies aren't the best tarmac events. Oh for the Manx to be the UK's round!

[tommeke_B]

personally I don't want more tarmac rallies, there are more then enough tarmac rounds already.
IMO leave the tarmac to the circuit racing boys & girls. A proper rally is held on gravel roads or snow/ice roads.
Complete bull****. A tarmac rally can be at least as difficult and challenging as a gravel/snow event. Especially mentally it is much more demanding in my opinion.

[rallyfun]

Complete bull****. A tarmac rally can be at least as difficult and challenging as a gravel/snow event. Especially mentally it is much more demanding in my opinion.

Are you rally driver or something?

[NxOxT]

Are you rally driver or something?

you do not have to be one to use common sense, and the way the sport is... a "rally driver" is equal to someone with money and a liking for rallying.

usually those who like gravel rallies to tarmac are either no good "hairpin" fans who like drifts and other funny stuff instead of rallying so they are better off to some drift competition...

[tommeke_B]

Are you rally driver or something?

No, but does that make my opinion invalid? I've visited a large number of events in my relatively short life, of which some WRC events (Finland, Sweden, Portugal, Sardinia, France and Germany). We drove many stages, in order to find nice places to spectate, and you must be blind to not see how the stage is, what's difficult about it etc. It's even not so difficult to predict places with a high crashing-chance, unless you are blind. :)

[Eli]

A certain Middle Eastern nation looks to be in the 2014 Calendar ;) let me guess- Jordan...

[NxOxT]

let me guess- Jordan...

no... i think you are at an age where you should focus on absorbing information istead of making predictions and assumptions on calendars. drivers ects...

[AndyRAC]

My only beef is that the 3 late summer / autumn tarmac rallies aren't the best tarmac events. Oh for the Manx to be the UK's round!

Or why not spread them out over the year - instead of late summer/autumn. There are some fantastic tarmac events not used - for various reasons; Manx, Ypres, and even, Mull...... imagine that as a WRC event......

[BleAivano]

Complete bull****. A tarmac rally can be at least as difficult and challenging as a gravel/snow event. Especially mentally it is much more demanding in my opinion.

Bullsh!t? I'd say your comment is bullsh!t.

Opinions are opinions not fact, hence they cannot be wrong ríght.

You can fancy your tarmac as much as you like but my opinion still stands. Tarmac is for circuit racing, gravel is for rallying.

I never said anything about tarmac not being difficult or challenging. But Tarmac is not a proper rally surface.

Its too different from gravel and snow and imo tarmac have no place in rally.

Tarmac also usually means too much grip and then the next hundred of second there is no grip at all causing the car to go out of control.

I also would like to see sources that rally started on tarmac, perhaps for rally in southern Europe while Northern Europe more likely had
their rallies on gravel roads already in the beginning since there weren't much tarmac roads up here during those times.

[sollitt]

Loosing an event like NZ is a loss to the calendar. Questionable. In reality it's just another event. By the end of this year it'll be just a fond memory like a pair of old slippers. In 3 years time no one will remember let alone care.
FIA didn't drop us, we dropped ourselves in favour of trying to attract sponsors by trying to get a 3-year on, 3-year off deal with the FIA. This is the point I was making.
I highly doubt that it will ever return now that we relinquished our spot. I agree.


All the drivers have said for years how good the event is, how superb the conditions of the roads are, and how they all look forward to this round as much as Finland. Never heard anyone say that about most of the other rounds. This is emotive nonsense born from too much reading your own press.

[dimviii]

a nice article from a Greek site
WRC | WRC- (http://www.motori.gr/newsarticle/5172)

[stefanvv]

Tarmac also usually means too much grip and then the next hundred of second there is no grip at all causing the car to go out of control.

That's why it is as difficult as other surfaces. Asphalt driving in changing conditions require no less mastering of a Rally driver. You'll never see that in circuit racing. I agree that to be Rally champion require mastering all these surfaces. Even in gravel surfaces there is much variety, like fast flowing roads of Finland, Baltics, New Zealand, to completely opposite rough gravels in Acropolis and Cyprus. Driving on snow also requires somewhat different driving style of Finland for example. I know they look similar, but they aren't.

[rallyfun]

No, but does that make my opinion invalid? I've visited a large number of events in my relatively short life, of which some WRC events (Finland, Sweden, Portugal, Sardinia, France and Germany). We drove many stages, in order to find nice places to spectate, and you must be blind to not see how the stage is, what's difficult about it etc. It's even not so difficult to predict places with a high crashing-chance, unless you are blind. :)

Take it easy man, just asking cause you gave so many details that ordinary driver couldn't give so I think you must have some experience on different surface at least on rally driver level. Also just being curios how many high crashing-chance spots did you find in Germany and many crashes actually have you seen?

[NxOxT]

a nice article from a Greek site
WRC | WRC- (http://www.motori.gr/newsarticle/5172)

it just states the organiser point of view.... and with no surprise it blames everyone else apart from the Greeks.... same old story.

[cali]

Bullsh!t? I'd say your comment is bullsh!t.

Opinions are opinions not fact, hence they cannot be wrong ríght.

You can fancy your tarmac as much as you like but my opinion still stands. Tarmac is for circuit racing, gravel is for rallying.

I never said anything about tarmac not being difficult or challenging. But Tarmac is not a proper rally surface.

Its too different from gravel and snow and imo tarmac have no place in rally.

Tarmac also usually means too much grip and then the next hundred of second there is no grip at all causing the car to go out of control.

I also would like to see sources that rally started on tarmac, perhaps for rally in southern Europe while Northern Europe more likely had
their rallies on gravel roads already in the beginning since there weren't much tarmac roads up here during those times.
This is hilarious stuff ... :D

[steve_spackman]

I'd quite like to see something with more snow. I know theres already Sweden. Maybe more locations outside of Europe. I'd like to see them do the safari rally again.

Siberia would be a great snow rally...

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

[amilk]

It's even not so difficult to predict places with a high crashing-chance, unless you are blind. :)

:) LOL

[Mirek]

Also just being curios how many high crashing-chance spots did you find in Germany and many crashes actually have you seen?

It's really not so difficult to predict crash places but speaking for myself I don't go to rallies to watch crashes. The last thing I want to see is somebody injured or dead. That's why predicting crashing places and spectating crashes are two different things. Still I have to admit I have seen quite a lot of crashes live. I do know one cameraman who has taken dozens of crashes in his videos because he likes to do so. He took some crash videos on every event where he was...

[Mirek]

Bullsh!t? I'd say your comment is bullsh!t.

Opinions are opinions not fact, hence they cannot be wrong ríght.

You can fancy your tarmac as much as you like but my opinion still stands. Tarmac is for circuit racing, gravel is for rallying.

I never said anything about tarmac not being difficult or challenging. But Tarmac is not a proper rally surface.

Its too different from gravel and snow and imo tarmac have no place in rally.

Tarmac also usually means too much grip and then the next hundred of second there is no grip at all causing the car to go out of control.

I also would like to see sources that rally started on tarmac, perhaps for rally in southern Europe while Northern Europe more likely had
their rallies on gravel roads already in the beginning since there weren't much tarmac roads up here during those times.

There is much more asphalt rallies in Europe than gravel ones. You can't close Your eyes and pretend the opposite. Asphalt is a natural part of rallying no matter if You like it or not.

[amilk]

It's really not so difficult to predict crash places but speaking for myself I don't go to rallies to watch crashes. The last thing I want to see is somebody injured or dead. That's why predicting crashing places and spectating crashes are two different things. Still I have to admit I have seen quite a lot of crashes live. I do know one cameraman who has taken dozens of crashes in his videos because he likes to do so. He took some crash videos on every event where he was...

On local/national events not that difficult yes but on WRC for the top15 drivers it's not so easy (they don't crash so much except Novikov and many competitive km's on stages so many possibility to chose from.

[Mirek]

On local/national events not that difficult yes but on WRC for the top15 drivers it's not so easy (they don't crash so much except Novikov and many competitive km's on stages so many possibility to chose from.

Who spoke about top 15 WRC drivers?

[Mintexmemory]

An interesting point regarding tarmac is that the UK drivers of the 60s 70s and early 80s had a career path that started with tarmac night rallies on public open roads (still something most of the world can't compute!) Cowan, Elford, Clark, J McCrae, Pond etc. all started on navigational night events and so were already adept at dealing with changing tarmac conditions before they ever got near forest gravel (although many road rallies would employ farmers tracks). Nowday's fast tracking into national forest events is the usual route (apart from N & S Ireland) for guys in the British Isles, without getting tarmac experience. The first time many of them see tarmac is Epynt or on the Jim Clark Rally. Maybe that's where we are going wrong.

[amilk]

Who spoke about top 15 WRC drivers?

Me+
The topic about WRC - of course they are other drivers than WRC top15 on WRC rounds but after some WRC2 and some clever guy with DS3 we see there mostly tourists

[Lisa Statham]

Agreed. I want more 'world' in the world championship.

[Mintexmemory]

Agreed. I want more 'world' in the world championship.

With respect, not much of the 'world' that isn't already covered by WRC has sufficient resource (trained marshals) and experience in what it takes to run an international rally, safely. Shoe-horning a WRC round into China (for example) is an invitation for a debacle. Hell, some existing, traditional long-standing rounds have less than acceptable standards. Fine while it all works but watch the brown stuff fly if there were to be a serious incident.

[scn]

it just states the organiser point of view.... and with no surprise it blames everyone else apart from the Greeks.... same old story.
I will tell you a dream that I had last night: A major manufacturer from some European country gets a driver to drive with full program, with a sponsorship from a petroleum company that is also the sponsor of a rally in the 2014 program that happens to take place in the country of this driver. Anyway, it was just a dream, so I could not see the names. We 'll talk again at the end of the year. Maybe then I will have another dream in which I will be able to see the names.

[tommeke_B]

Also just being curios how many high crashing-chance spots did you find in Germany and many crashes actually have you seen?
In Germany we did recce of the following stages on thursday, before the event: Sauertal, Mittelmosel, Veldenz and Dhrontal. About the "crashing places" I found, on Sauertal nothing. On Mittelmosel we stopped to have a look at where Ogier finally crashed (quite interesting, completely blind with very sharp crest and you didn't see how the corner ended at all), but 500m later we found the fast right corner with the huge bump from water draining, and decided to go there in stead, as it would be interesting on how drivers approach it and how the car/driver responds to the bump. We've seen the crash of Campedelli there, some other had big moments, few other crashed but when we weren't there anymore. On Dhrontal we stopped at the corner where Neuville crashed, but to be honest I didn't expect such an epic crash would happen there, just thought it would be a nice place (blind left don't cut into right big cut into blind left). Just left from it, if you walked some 50m, there was a gravel road. We tried all access roads to that gravel road, but all were undriveable... It varies, but from stage to stage, you can find sometimes only one, sometimes dozens of tricky places. In the last 6 WRC events I've always seen a crash, although I'm never really looking after it. Last year in France we found the corner where Solberg would crash tricky, and went there. Same for the place where Loeb went off in Sardinia (drivers were in a good rythm with corner after corner on a very wide flat gravel road, that left one was also very fast but the road became only half as wide, several group N drivers had close calls there).
I'm not searching for real crashing-places, but for another reason these places attract me, because on these places you can see the biggest difference between the good drivers, the great drivers, top drivers, and the sick dogs (to put it in NOT's words).

But back on topic (as far as you can call this thing one topic). :)

[dimviii]

I'm not searching for real crashing-places, but for another reason these places attract me, because on these places you can see the biggest difference between the good drivers, the great drivers, top drivers, and the sick dogs (to put it in NOT's words). :)

+1

[NxOxT]

I will tell you a dream that I had last night: A major manufacturer from some European country gets a driver to drive with full program, with a sponsorship from a petroleum company that is also the sponsor of a rally in the 2014 program that happens to take place in the country of this driver. Anyway, it was just a dream, so I could not see the names. We 'll talk again at the end of the year. Maybe then I will have another dream in which I will be able to see the names.

the same manufacturer uses (almost) the same scheme this year... but it has not affected the calendar. There were 14 events to drop in favour of poland (which by the way is an amazing rally) Greece was the weakest link... simple as that.

There were always dark alliances and sponsorship driven decisions in every motorsport, it is not something new... the goal is to avoid being the weakest link and Acropolis rally was the weakest link from every point of view you look at it.

[NxOxT]

In Germany we did recce of the following stages on thursday, before the event: Sauertal, Mittelmosel, Veldenz and Dhrontal. About the "crashing places" I found, on Sauertal nothing. On Mittelmosel we stopped to have a look at where Ogier finally crashed (quite interesting, completely blind with very sharp crest and you didn't see how the corner ended at all), but 500m later we found the fast right corner with the huge bump from water draining, and decided to go there in stead, as it would be interesting on how drivers approach it and how the car/driver responds to the bump. We've seen the crash of Campedelli there, some other had big moments, few other crashed but when we weren't there anymore. On Dhrontal we stopped at the corner where Neuville crashed, but to be honest I didn't expect such an epic crash would happen there, just thought it would be a nice place (blind left don't cut into right big cut into blind left). Just left from it, if you walked some 50m, there was a gravel road. We tried all access roads to that gravel road, but all were undriveable... It varies, but from stage to stage, you can find sometimes only one, sometimes dozens of tricky places. In the last 6 WRC events I've always seen a crash, although I'm never really looking after it. Last year in France we found the corner where Solberg would crash tricky, and went there. Same for the place where Loeb went off in Sardinia (drivers were in a good rythm with corner after corner on a very wide flat gravel road, that left one was also very fast but the road became only half as wide, several group N drivers had close calls there).
I'm not searching for real crashing-places, but for another reason these places attract me, because on these places you can see the biggest difference between the good drivers, the great drivers, top drivers, and the sick dogs (to put it in NOT's words).

But back on topic (as far as you can call this thing one topic). :)

do not try to argue with people who go to rallies to watch hairpins and handbrake turns... they are the same who save Ken Blocks videos in their hard drives...you are better than that.

[scn]

Acropolis rally was the weakest link from every point of view you look at it.
Please list these "points of view".

[NxOxT]

I will not... i do not trust Greeks.

[scn]

I will not... i do not trust Greeks.
Thank you for informing me about your feelings.
So the discussion ends with the general statement "every point of view".

[Eli]

since this is a thread of which rally should be added to the calendar, my thoughts were to Rally Ireland, it was great back in 2007 & 2009, so why is it not back?

[rallyfun]

since this is a thread of which rally should be added to the calendar, my thoughts were to Rally Ireland, it was great back in 2007 & 2009, so why is it not back?

Money matters and besides that I rate it as the worst rally in WRC calendar to watch as a spectator.

[Doon]

Money matters and besides that I rate it as the worst rally in WRC calendar to watch as a spectator.

Agreed! I didn't enjoy watching the rally compared with others. Standing in a field trying to peer over the hedge isn't exactly great viewing.

[Mintexmemory]

Money matters and besides that I rate it as the worst rally in WRC calendar to watch as a spectator.
Why so?
I went to both runnings and got soaked both times. These links show some of the places I went where the spectating was the equal of Germany or Spain and the roads a very different challenge.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/74mex/4129538798/in/set-72157622864009376 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/74mex/4129538798/in/set-72157622864009376)

Arigna 2009 -A brilliant Sunday morning after the previous day's rain. Unfortunately I'd run out of film and batteries by the time we got to the Donegal stage later on but that was also a great place.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/74mex/4128769577/in/set-72157622864009376 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/74mex/4128769577/in/set-72157622864009376)

Sloughan Glen 2009 - This shows why if Ireland had the late September date instead of France it would generate more cash for the local economy. Remember the rally was free both times. Lots of travellers were put off by a) the winter conditions, b) proximity to WRGB in 2007. Not the worse rain I've ever endured on a stage but I was so thankful to have a warm bath that night!!

[font=Arial][size=100][color=#800080]http://www.flickr.com/photos/74mex/4124919603 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/74mex/4124919603)
Tempo 2007 - fantastic downhill jump where you could see just who was committed

Yes there were 'pens' but with a bit of planning it was easy to find good spots. Certainly in 2009 I benefitted from the 2007 experience
Just wish I had learned more about photography back then, my kit and ability has improved since then so I really would like to see an autumn Rally Ireland

[Gregor-y]

Irish roads are hair-raising on a normal day, let alone as a special stage. It would make an excellent tarmac round.

[GigiGalliNo1]

But as someone has told me on the forums...

Ireland can only run a rally at WRC spec one time of the year!!!! Due to weather, rain and flooding.. Shame...

[GigiGalliNo1]

Also. It would be great to have a Tarmac rally with 80% chance of raining and being wet! Challenge to the max!

[Mirek]

But as someone has told me on the forums...

Ireland can only run a rally at WRC spec one time of the year!!!! Due to weather, rain and flooding.. Shame...

How many ITC or national events have been canceled in recent years due to the weather? I don't think it was any significant number.

[Eli]

anyways is still doesn't appear on the calendar

[Franky]

How many ITC or national events have been canceled in recent years due to the weather? I don't think it was any significant number.

I think the time period they'd like to hold the event would also be more profitable/better for the organizers/locals.

[Mintexmemory]

I think the time period they'd like to hold the event would also be more profitable/better for the organizers/locals.
In both the Rally Ireland editions stages were cancelled due to quantity of water on the road. It doesn't just rain in Ireland - as my partner's Galway cousin says " It isn't the vegetation that's green, its corrosion!"