Ott Tänak - Future champion?

[TypeR]

Awesome! Hopefully some young estonians can also get a chance on some rallies..
It shows that, M. Märtin has done good job with MMMotorsport and now under RG

[cali]

Awesome! Hopefully some young estonians can also get a chance on some rallies..
It shows that, M. Märtin has done good job with MMMotorsport and now under RGAlso it shows that interview he gave was a complete BS

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[TypeR]

Also it shows that interview he gave was a complete BS

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I still tend to believe that, it wasn't complete BS.. The rumours were that the R5 thing was the main reason why Ott left Toyota and in that interview Märtin denied that.. It could have come as a bonus, but I'm more than sure that is not the reason why Tänak changed team.

+ there is no Yaris R5 and I believe it won't come soon either..

[cali]

I still tend to believe that, it wasn't complete BS.. The rumours were that the R5 thing was the main reason why Ott left Toyota and in that interview Märtin denied that.. It could have come as a bonus, but I'm more than sure that is not the reason why Tänak changed team.

+ there is no Yaris R5 and I believe it won't come soon either..Whatever it was Märtin denied it all and dismissed any rumours about R5 programme...and today we know it wasn't so. I call this BS however you look at it even if I put my blue-black-white glasses on.

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[Jakem]

Take it easy... before you say somebody talking BS. Deal can be made also after Ott’s contract, because it was still time when Adamo was speaking about finding money and wanting to run R5 program.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Many assumptions here without knowing the facts. People dont like the truth to get in the way of a good story...

[er88]

Nothing will be said if Tanak storms to another title and things go well at Hyundai. But if he doesn't, then again questions will be asked about this move and Tanak & Martin's motives getting tangled up. Leaving a title winning team + car he's totally at one with, for reasons outwith pure driving...

Total bullshit spouted by Martin when he hammered the Finnish press in that interview a few months ago, so naturally makes you wonder how much else of that interview was bullshit as well (outside of the R5 stuff).

[EstWRC]

Many assumptions here without knowing the facts. People dont like the truth to get in the way of a good story...

+1

[er88]

we will know,if MMM run hyundais r5 programm.
Just few weeks ago we saw their brand new fiesta mk2 r5 for sale.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200114/b72d6ef1436ee1ec90e2f4f3d2094cb7.gif

[rallyfiend]

To think that this programme going to the team owned by Marko and Ott is a pure coincidence or not linked to his movement to Hyundai is to exercise such unbelievable naivety as to be bordering on the ridiculous....

[cali]

To think that this programme going to the team owned by Marko and Ott is a pure coincidence or not linked to his movement to Hyundai is to exercise such unbelievable naivety as to be bordering on the ridiculous....Exactly, puzzled by the amount of naivety here

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[AnttiL]

I don't mind that they had some synergy with the main driver and R5 program, I just don't like the bullshit talk in the Märtin interview.

[cali]

I don't mind that they had some synergy with the main driver and R5 program, I just don't like the bullshit talk in the Märtin interview.Exactly my thoughts, why you deny when in January everything will be made public anyways. I'm glad that they got this chance but I really do not like how this whole process was handled.

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[Rallyper]

Whatever it was Märtin denied it all and dismissed any rumours about R5 programme...and today we know it wasn't so. I call this BS however you look at it even if I put my blue-black-white glasses on.

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Why should he confirm during time of negotiations. Not BS in my point of view. Only secrets not ready to be official.

[cali]

Why should he confirm during time of negotiations. Not BS in my point of view. Only secrets not ready to be official.I guess you did not read the interview Per

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[Rallyper]

I guess you did not read the interview Per

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That´s true. But from the discussion here I made some conclusions.

In Sweden we have politicians saying No, meaning Yes. In the MM case I just commented why he maybe talked "bs".

If you like, you can give me more info that I missed.

[maailmameister]

Consequently, neither Märtin nor Ott had the right to make this R5 news public. Hyundai has decided to disclose it now and that's it.
In the same way, a driver cannot talk about his new contract until the team decides to make it public. It has already become commonplace in the WRC world that nobody talks before the time is right.

[cali]

Consequently, neither Märtin nor Ott had the right to make this R5 news public. Hyundai has decided to disclose it now and that's it.
In the same way, a driver cannot talk about his new contract until the team decides to make it public. It has already become commonplace in the WRC world that nobody talks before the time is right.The interview was about Toyota :) and I get the Hyundai part. Did you see how Märtin ridiculed the whole R5 idea?

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[TypeR]

it seems like you were about to get the R5 programme and now it's gone :rolleyes:

there is difference between Hyundai and Toyota R5 programs.. One team has already got a good car ready to race, other team's car is only being mentioned in the interviews..

[cali]

it seems like you were about to get the R5 programme and now it's gone :rolleyes:

there is difference between Hyundai and Toyota R5 programs.. One team has already got a good car ready to race, other team's car is only being mentioned in the interviews..I suggest you to remove your nationalistic glasses and step into real world. The question was did the demand to develop Toyota's R5 got in the way of Ott's contract renewal. The answer - he laughed off such idea.
I just don't tolerate bs and i do not lower my criterias even if it comes from a fellow estonians...


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[Japé]

Anyway, this is very good for Markko, Ott and Estonian motorsport industry. Hopefully this will boost OT Racing's activities as well, but is it so that RG will be run solely from MMM HQ at Tallinn?

[dimviii]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200114/b72d6ef1436ee1ec90e2f4f3d2094cb7.gif

the good guess was at 27 October 2019


just thinking loudly....
because also for me is hard to believe thats is about money,maybe Tanak asked to run the yaris r5 program for customers with MM sport and Tommi denied?
Maybe Adamo willing to give MM sport this r5 multi million programm to MM sport?

[dimviii]

discuss guys




Hyundai Motorsport and Red Gray Team formalized their union for the landing of the brand in WRC 2. The updated i20 R5 will be operated by the Estonian Markko Martin team, formerly called MM Motorsport. With this link, the representative of Ott Tänak and the WRC champion will go on to play a new key role in the rally client racing market, which handles large amounts of money in sales. In the background of this union, underlies an attempted frustrated agreement with Toyota.

The partnership formed between Hyundai Motorsport and Red Gray Team does not come by chance, but has developed a long history over the past year, linked in part to the hiring of Tänak. The current WRC champion is represented by Markko Martin, who at the same time is at the helm of MM Motorsport. This team, of which Tänak owns a small part, changed its name to Red Gray Team in 2020.

According to the European press, one of Martin's plans was to specify Tänak's arrival to the only 100% official WRC team. “Everything played a role in our decision. Leaving Toyota was difficult because, as a car manufacturer, they are involved in management-level rallies and want to do it big and correctly. But it was a private team, like M-Sport. Instead, Hyundai can be considered a factory team, ”Märtin told Delfi.

But this virtue of Hyundai is closely linked to another of the great secret plans: to find a manufacturer that will lead a new project in the R5 vehicle market.

Initially, he aimed to achieve the objective with Toyota, to develop his new Yaris R5, whose future launch would play an important role in the customer racing market for rally. But in November last year, the former pilot and Tänak representative denied this version.

“That story has been a complete invention. The same happened with the desire to represent R5 cars. All this is nonsense created by the Finnish media. I don't want to lead any team, nor is there any issue with R5 cars. Facing something like that would only mean an extra sacrifice and the income could only represent a minimal part of the contract. We have been working with our team for 15 years (N.de.R: MM Motorsport) and this is not something that should be changed by making extreme decisions. ”

Despite this, the Finnish driver Riku Tahko, owner of his homonymous team and columnist in the Yle media, was reluctant to believe Markko Martin's statements. On the contrary, he explained what were the reasons that truncated the initial project with Toyota and why the idea found its perfect niche in Hyundai.

“Markko's negotiation plan was for Tänak to drive, but his team, MM Motorsport, would get the rights to build the Toyota R5. It would have been a great deal! At that point, Ott's salary and contract would have been just a small drop in the ocean. ”

Tahko said the “R5 project” was also one of the great factors that has played a crucial role in the negotiations that led Ott Tänak and his representative, Markko Martin, to sign with Hyundai by 2020. “In the future we will see that there will be cooperation between MM Motorsport and Hyundai. The brand is developing its new R5 and I think MM Motorsport will be involved, ”the Finn had anticipated in November.

To graph the size of the commercial interests that were at stake in the negotiations between Hyundai Motorsport and the Markko Martin team, Tahko compared this case with those of Skoda Motorsport and M-Sport, the two leading sales structures, within the market of customer careers.

“The average price of an R5 car is € 250,000. Skoda has sold more than 300 R5 cars and M-Sport more than 200. Everyone knows how big this business is. Even Volkswagen has a queue of more than a year of orders with its Polo R5, ”said Tahko. “Right now, Toyota is the largest car manufacturer in the world and its World Rally Car is the fastest in the championship. Your Yaris R5 could be a very interesting product. ”

In the fall of 2019, Ott Tänak bought a small part of MM Motorsport, a team that at that time carried out the Toyota Gazoo Racing Rally Challenge, the Japanese driver training program that was driven by the aforementioned brand. Until 2018, Markko Martin's team competed with Hiroki Arai and Takamoto Katsuta, until the manufacturer opted for this last driver as the favorite to endorse.

“The collaboration between Tommi Makinen (N.de.R: Toyota Gazoo Racing director) and Märtin has started with R5 projects. MM Motorsport has been operating the Ford Fiesta R5 of Takamoto Katsuta for many years in the Toyota development program, which also included Hiroki Arai. I am sure that this big business has the R5 and Tänak in the background, ”explained Riku Tahko.


The Toyota project to create its Yaris R5 has been underway for a long time and Tommi Makinen himself had revealed it since April last year. However, Yle reported that since then there has been no progress.

“We do a lot of research on the R5 car. We have conducted market research and preparation. We still don't have a decision on how we are going to operate. The decision will probably come from Japan, ”Makinen had told Yle two months ago. “The finished R5 car will not be seen in action, at least in the near future. If it takes shape, it will take at least a couple of years, ”Makinen warned. "In any case, the R5 is not entirely planned"

According to Tahko's vision, “Toyota didn't have the right street car to build the R5. The previous Yaris engine was not the one for an R5 ”. However, the new version of the Japanese model, unveiled at the end of last year and presented at the Tokyo Auto Salon, already employs a new 1.6 three-cylinder engine.

Toyota sent a request to the FIA ​​to achieve the authorization of this type of driving plants, although Rallye Magazin informed that the latest regulatory modifications on this type of mechanics will be approved on January 1, 2021, which will further delay the arrival of the new Yaris rally.

http://motorboxradio.com.ar/2020/01/14/red-grey-team-markko-martin-y-tanak-nuevos-actores-clave-en-el-mercado-de-r5/

[Gregor-y]

One can't blame Tanak for thinking long term. Look at the career trajectories of Martin, Wilson and Makinen. Going further there's Dave Richards or if you're really lucky Jean Todt.

[AnttiL]

Why should he confirm during time of negotiations. Not BS in my point of view. Only secrets not ready to be official.

It's a different thing to say "some other people have made up that I want do X" instead of "I haven't agreed on X" or "I cannot comment on X". It's just the same arrogance as Tänak had in late 2017 when he in his column despised people spreading rumors about him leaving M-Sport, or telling David Evans directly in the face that he's not leaving M-Sport.

[AnttiL]

there is difference between Hyundai and Toyota R5 programs.. One team has already got a good car ready to race, other team's car is only being mentioned in the interviews..

How many WRC2 wins does the Hyundai R5 have? right, zero. And Hyundai will come out with a new car later this year, so in that sense they're quite similar gigs for a team.

[dimviii]

One can't blame Tanak for thinking long term. Look at the career trajectories of Martin, Wilson and Makinen. Going further there's Dave Richards or if you're really lucky Jean Todt.

of course no one can blame Ott and Marko for grabbing this opportunity.
Once in 100 lifetimes happens something like that.
i would do the same.

[AnttiL]

discuss guys

This is like a round-up of Märtin's Delfi interview, Mäkinen/Tahko YLE interview and what we've discussed here, nothing new.

[dimviii]

How many WRC2 wins does the Hyundai R5 have? right, zero.
thats not a problem


And Hyundai will come out with a new car later this year, so in that sense they're quite similar gigs for a team.

even better,money from today and many years more.

[doubled1978]

of course no one can blame Ott and Marko for grabbing this opportunity.
Once in 100 lifetimes happens something like that.
i would do the same.

Not at all, I would do the same...

[Rallyper]

It's a different thing to say "some other people have made up that I want do X" instead of "I haven't agreed on X" or "I cannot comment on X". It's just the same arrogance as Tänak had in late 2017 when he in his column despised people spreading rumors about him leaving M-Sport, or telling David Evans directly in the face that he's not leaving M-Sport.

Sorry, but I think you are marking words.

On the whole Martin didn´t want to tell what he knew. Bcs of negotiations etz, etz. Call it arrogance if you want. I call it "journalists will get to know when we have a deal"

[EstWRC]

With English subtitles now

Enjoy https://youtu.be/OQgVFKPWN2k

[EstWRC]

Ott Tänak | The road to Victory | The best of 2009 - 2019 [Passats de canto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiZ3bBaAkjE

visit to Hyundai motorsport https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtcvtGg854s

[eib1]

"How science won the World Rally Championship"

https://sciencebusiness.net/how-science-won-world-rally-championship?fbclid=IwAR0_OH2zavfLE4byyYoQAc_C_PtO 9z47000gKG1CaUfRymDcN1N03PS8veo

Thank you bluuford!

[Rallyper]

"How science won the World Rally Championship"

https://sciencebusiness.net/how-science-won-world-rally-championship?fbclid=IwAR0_OH2zavfLE4byyYoQAc_C_PtO 9z47000gKG1CaUfRymDcN1N03PS8veo

Thank you bluuford!

Or Hannes? ;)

[AnttiL]

Tomi Tuominen is an ex-co-driver who is now the main host of YLE's rallying television. He also now has a rally podcast and in the first episode he interviewed Marcus Grönholm. They talked about how rallying has evolved with technology, and one side comment came from Tuominen himself about driving Sardegna last year. He said that Tänak wants to have pictures in advance from the route as much as possible, to see what the conditions are, and this was only in a gravel rally, where they could spot possible bad stones or other hazards. Tuominen said he was included in a WhatsApp group where the pictures were sent.

EDIT: I listened to this bit again and it's actually Grönholm who says that "Tänak wants photos from the route all the time" and then Tuominnen tells about the WhatsApp group, not specifying it's Tänak who wants them.

[SubaruNorway]

Tomi Tuominen is an ex-co-driver who is now the main host of YLE's rallying television. He also now has a rally podcast and in the first episode he interviewed Marcus Grönholm. They talked about how rallying has evolved with technology, and one side comment came from Tuominen himself about driving Sardegna last year. He said that Tänak wants to have pictures in advance from the route as much as possible, to see what the conditions are, and this was only in a gravel rally, where they could spot possible bad stones or other hazards. Tuominen said he was included in a WhatsApp group where the pictures were sent.

I heard a story about a weather crew guy that had to run 4km i think it was in Likenäs to check a stone after 1st run in a fast combination with compression after the rallycross track, demanding to work for this Tänak :)

[flat_right]

Dirtfish made a short clip about Tänak’s lake incident. To this day, I get shivers when thinking back to it...


https://youtu.be/DcnglXDNO94

[meh]

Dirtfish made a short clip about Tänak’s lake incident. To this day, I get shivers when thinking back to it...


https://youtu.be/DcnglXDNO94

I still remember that incident clearly. Such a roller-coaster of emotions. Tänak was suddenly lost, no-one knew what was the situation. Next car came in, I think it was Paddon, Colin at the stage asked did you see Tänak? Answer is no. How one can just disappear?

For some reason this episode was not available later in wrc podcasts, but for me the hardest moment was when Colin reacted to someones message, "oh, boy...", it was clear message that something is really bad and this topic was stopped for some time. In this moment you start thinking... again? (for estonians - Märtin and Park 2005 GB).

Luckily soon some good news came in, but those minutes on that time were looooooooong to wait.

Later those "after stories" of course made things more spicy, like Raigo Mõlder was swimming legend in hand and later nursed it in Hotel. In some interview he said, he didn't take it on purpose with him to rescue it, he just "forgot it to hand" as automatic reaction.

Cherry on the cake was M-Sport car rebuild and recovery. All other teams were standing and checking the progress till late hours and M-Sport got round applause when car engine started. Even now, 5 years later, it's emotional to write about it....

[KiwiWRCfan]

I still remember that incident clearly. Such a roller-coaster of emotions. Tänak was suddenly lost, no-one knew what was the situation. Next car came in, I think it was Paddon, Colin at the stage asked did you see Tänak? Answer is no. How one can just disappear?

For some reason this episode was not available later in wrc podcasts.

Your memory is correct Hayden was next car on road. I remember it quite clearly. Hayden was slightly baffled by Colin's question. Another strong memory is the professionalism of both Becs Williams and Colin Clark given the situation that was unfolding live on air.

[denkimi]

Dirtfish made a short clip about Tänak’s lake incident. To this day, I get shivers when thinking back to it...


https://youtu.be/DcnglXDNO94
a lot of drama for nothing. it's not the first car that ends up in water, and it won't be the last.

[EstWRC]

It’s been one year since the premiere of Ott Tänak Movie!
Let’s celebrate the anniversary with exclusive extras on tanakmovie.com! You will find an exclusive short film "Becoming A World Champion in Rally Catalunya" and some untold stories that didn't make it to the film. Enjoy!

https://netikino.ee/tanakmovie?movie=178

[EstWRC]

DirtFish podcast with Ott https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/podcast-the-world-champion-from-home-and-the-heart/

[AnttiL]

DirtFish podcast with Ott https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/podcast-the-world-champion-from-home-and-the-heart/

And if it wasn't enough https://www.wrc.com/en/news/season-2020/wrc/backstories-podcast-ott-tanak/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

And if it wasn't enough https://www.wrc.com/en/news/season-2020/wrc/backstories-podcast-ott-tanak/

Q: Three words to describe yourself ?

Ott: Very Boring Guy

[EstWRC]

And if it wasn't enough https://www.wrc.com/en/news/season-2020/wrc/backstories-podcast-ott-tanak/

and if that still wasnt enough then Q&A with him and Adamo https://www.instagram.com/p/CAATKduJmCD/

i like how Ott describes Rally Finland here, "like drawing an art"

[TypeR]

Happy birthday to Ott!

[EstWRC]

Happy birthday champ!

https://youtu.be/P33K1N5qOvA

We have birthdays almost the same day. I had mine yesterday.

[AnttiL]

Happy birthday champ!

https://youtu.be/P33K1N5qOvA

We have birthdays almost the same day. I had mine yesterday.

Congrats to both! :) I have the same birthday as Hannu Mikkola (obviously just different year)

[AnttiL]

I already brought up this on twitter: During the last four years Tänak has been always celebrating a world title

2017 M-Sport
2018 Toyota
2019 personal title
2020 Hyundai

The manufacturer titles have all come from three different teams in four years. That must be a record...

[EstWRC]

this season reminded me 2018 in a way....

huge gap to the championship leaders already after 1st rally, then had a great come back like in 2018 with two second places and a win and was just 13 points down.

and then the car issues two rallies in a row which completely eliminated him from the championship again.

[Essaj]

this season reminded me 2018 in a way....

huge gap to the championship leaders already after 1st rally, then had a great come back like in 2018 with two second places and a win and was just 13 points down.

and then the car issues two rallies in a row which completely eliminated him from the championship again.

Next season drivers title will be very interesting, we have 4 drivers who could have won (or did) already this year and are really hungry to get it next year. Also we have the '17 car era ending with both Hyundai and Toyota pretty much in equal terms and I wouldn't count the 5th driver out this upcoming championship battle ;)

[EstWRC]

some statistics what Ott achieved with the Arctic win because you know why not, cause we have a huge gap to Croatia.

it was his 14th victory, got past Petter Solberg with that and is on par with Walter Röhrl. Next up is Mikko Hirvonen with 15 wins.

first time that he lead a rally from start to finish, last man to do it was Evans last year on Rally Sweden and before that Ogier in 2018 in Monte and Corsica. Total 27 drivers have achieved this.

and last but at not least, he has now won 11 different rallies. Latvala has 12, Grönholm 12, Sainz 13, Ogier 18 and of course the king Loeb has 23.

[EstWRC]

THE 2019 WORLD CHAMPION EXPLAINS HIS DECISION IN AN EXCLUSIVE COLUMN FOR DIRTFISH

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/tanak-on-why-he-signed-for-hyundai-in-his-own-words/

[EstWRC]

you guys can also now watch the left out material from the movie, which is called the series https://netikino.ee/otttanak_themovie_series?lang=en

i definitely recommend it, IMO its maybe even better than the movie material...theres more behind the scenes stuff, like how he goes to the president ball with his wife, what they do on recce and between the stages and etc, gravel crew stuff and Bluuford ;)

[Eli]

A bit pre-mature IMHO but still interesting none the less:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/is-tanaks-title-challenge-over-already/

If history can teach us anything, Tänak can take the fight back, but he'll have to pull something special with no DNF's until the rest of the season.

[EstWRC]

even me, as a diehard fan of his, im saying its over for this season

although he managed to reduce similar kind of points gap in 2018, i dont see it happening this year

[Eli]

even me, as a diehard fan of his, I'm saying its over for this season

although he managed to reduce similar kind of points gap in 2018, i don't see it happening this year

He (& Hyundai for that matter) have a tall order after this one, that's for sure. As someone mentioned earlier, we'll be smarter after Kenya. Also don't forget, we still have some new(ish) events coming up so that will be a level playing field.

[bomber21]

A bit pre-mature IMHO but still interesting none the less:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/is-tanaks-title-challenge-over-already/

If history can teach us anything, Tänak can take the fight back, but he'll have to pull something special with no DNF's until the rest of the season.
If there was no Ogier, he could fight back. But Ogier is in another level and so smart that his opponents have now no chance.

[er88]

Yeah it's almost done for Ott unfortunately. Ogier finishing on the podium in Portugal and winning Sardinia should send fear through the other challengers.

Ofcourse anything can happen in rallying, but this is Seb. And even if Seb falters, Tanak has to overhaul Thierry and Evans too. I think he has too much to do.

[Ucci]

Guys, it far to early to surrender.....Tanak will stand at the top on many events this season, remember my words.
But I agree theat Kenya is going to be decisive for him. If in this Africa event he retaires again (and if Seb & Elfyin are again at the top), than it is over.

[mknight]

- 2 remaining rough events (will something break again?)
- 3 tarmac events (where he struggles with the car)

- 2 events where he does great

Not a good outlook.

[pantealex]

Problems is that Ogier/Evans can be TOP3 in every rally, so Ott will not benefit 20p/rally

[denkimi]

Yeah it's almost done for Ott unfortunately. Ogier finishing on the podium in Portugal and winning Sardinia should send fear through the other challengers.

Ofcourse anything can happen in rallying, but this is Seb. And even if Seb falters, Tanak has to overhaul Thierry and Evans too. I think he has too much to do.
I believe the moment ogier was confirmed at toyota, everyone should have been scared. The best driver in the best car, it could lead to levels of VX dominance.

[EstWRC]

as for a fan, its the most depressing season since 2012, as last season was short i would even say seasons, although last year wasnt half as bad as this.

while in 2012 it was his fault, not listening what was told to him and going flat out all the time, then this and last year too much mechanical/technical troubles. Of course theres his own faults too, like going flat out in Estonia with the frustration he had from previous 3 rounds and ending the rally so early, the decision to take only on spare in Monte. But the biggest and most of the points he lost in Portugal, Sardinia and Kenya.

my hope is now turned into next year cause it seems this bad run doesnt seem to end this year. Really waiting to see how the new car will come out with his influence, he helped to develop the new Rally2 car and Huttunen has only good things to say about the handling.

The only thing i hope still from this year is that there wont be any issues in Finland, i really wanna see battle between him and the Toyotas without any issues.

[AnttiL]

It's sad to hear the bitter comments at stage end interviews or between finish line and time control. Like at the end of Ypres power stage "these two years have been quite complicated".

[flat_right]

Have the same feeling as EstWRC. I'm slowly getting back this anxiety that I had during his early years. Unbelievable splits and then Becks saying in Rally Radio "Oh no, Tänak has stopped". Then it was because of some accident, now because of some technical issues.

Yesterday I was a bit daydreaming and thinking, would he now be 3x times champ, if he would have stayed in Toyota. Car that is like a tank, was well developed for Tanak's driving style... But we will never know. I'm sure Tänak made the decision that was best for him at that time as he just wanted to drive and maybe even more that his word would mean something. If he wanted something changed the way he likes it, then all the team would be behind him. If I interpreted his answer correctly in 2019? interview to Betsafe, then he even took a pay cut.

Hopefully, next year(s) would be more satisfying to watch and enjoy this talent of a generation.

[EstWRC]

yes you are right, he even took a pay cut while moving to Hyundai. The relationship was just so bad between him, Tommi and especially Mia. Im sure he wouldnt have moved if they wouldnt have been there or he had maybe even stayed if he wouldnt have known they arent there anymore after 2020?

im quite sure he would have been champ last year with the Toyota which now suddenly is bulletproof :D should have been in 2018 too

but shoulda, woulda doesnt count anything.

[AnttiL]

yes you are right, he even took a pay cut while moving to Hyundai. The relationship was just so bad between him, Tommi and especially Mia. Im sure he wouldnt have moved if they wouldnt have been there or he had maybe even stayed if he wouldnt have known they arent there anymore after 2019?

Tommi was "eliminated" at the end of 2020, a year after Tänak made his choice. However, it can be questioned whether the Toyota bosses eliminated Tommi because it was his fault that Tänak left the team.

Another interesting if-sequence is that if Tänak had stayed at Toyota, would Ogier have left Citroen at the end of 2019, and would the team have continued in 2020 with the updated car?

Do you guys think Tänak and Märtin burned the bridges to Toyota, or would they be able to return to the team now that Tommi is not there anymore?

Another interesting thing is how early Tänak and Neuville signed for Hyundai this year, and right after that the cars started breaking in the rough rallies...would they sign now anymore?

[EstWRC]

as i have heard and understood, Ogier started to chat with Tommi after Germany 2019...i think this is also the reason why Tommi waited with the contract renewing with Tänak, as you remember Ott said already in spring 2019 he wants the contract done by Finland and in that Betsafe interview he said his first choice was to stay in Toyota.

[mknight]

Tommi was "eliminated" at the end of 2020, a year after Tänak made his choice. However, it can be questioned whether the Toyota bosses eliminated Tommi because it was his fault that Tänak left the team.

Another interesting if-sequence is that if Tänak had stayed at Toyota, would Ogier have left Citroen at the end of 2019, and would the team have continued in 2020 with the updated car?

Do you guys think Tänak and Märtin burned the bridges to Toyota, or would they be able to return to the team now that Tommi is not there anymore?

Another interesting thing is how early Tänak and Neuville signed for Hyundai this year, and right after that the cars started breaking in the rough rallies...would they sign now anymore?

Tommi getting kicked was definitely in.large part due to Tanak leaving. The optics at end of 2019 were just terrible for Toyota. In Spain most of the talk was about Tanak leaving, not about Toyota winning and then they lost manu title as well, due in large part to Tommi hiring Meeke.

Yes I do believe Ogier would have stayed and Citroen continued.

I think the Japanese will remember and not hire Tanak unless he is massively better than anyone else at that point.

Neuville would sign anyway, Tanak might consider MSport.

-------

"Everyone" wondered if Tanak will have problems with Hyundai and sadly it came true in all the bad ways. Lately it also seems that he is much more frustrated than 'business as usuall" Neuville.

Note that Tanak himself saw Loeb, Mikkelsen and Paddon struggling i Hyundai, but said that after Neuville in GB 2019 he believed Hyundai was good so he felt ok to switch.

[Lancia Stratos]

I don't think, when everything is taken into consideration (Red Grey etc), that Tanak took a pay cut to join Hyundai....

[AnttiL]

"Everyone" wondered if Tanak will have problems with Hyundai and sadly it came true in all the bad ways. Lately it also seems that he is much more frustrated than 'business as usuall" Neuville.


I was expecting a big rivalry to happen between these two hot heads (with Adamo as a third one), but I guess it hasn't happened because Tänak hasn't been able to fight with Neuville.

[cali]

I was expecting a big rivalry to happen between these two hot heads (with Adamo as a third one), but I guess it hasn't happened because Tänak hasn't been able to fight with Neuville.In terms of points and championship campaign - yes, true. In terms of speed and wins - no, or it depends how you look at it it's quite equal IMHO. Remember Ypres was just the 2nd win for Thierry since Monte 2020! Actually speedwise on tarmac Thierry has been better, but on loose surface and specially on faster stuff Ott has been faster while Thierry has been outperforming on rougher events. So far both of them have been let down by technical and other issues so we can't get the whole picture. Specially Tänak's Saturday mornings have been devastating.



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[EstWRC]

yeah i agree that on tarmac Thierry is faster and on gravel Ott is faster but no surprise there for me. Apart from his 3 wins on Rally Germany for Ott i have always considered Neuville better tarmac driver than Ott.

After 1 year and 7 months they both have 2 wins each, but they both have missed many more, especially Ott this year with let downs.

I havent looked the statistics now after Ypres but after Estonia Ott had 35 stage wins, just 3 less than in 2019 after the same amount of rallies, the year when he was really dominating. He was also leading in the "stages lead" classification having led for 32 stages this year, actually both him and Ogier had 32. Huge contrast compared to last year.

[Japé]

Noticed only now that there is extension available for Ott Tänak - The Movie, called The Series. It would be very nice to rent it, but https://netikino.ee web page does not tell how long (in minutes) the series together will be. Of course the longer the better, but since there seems to be set rental limitation that you need to complete series watching in 72 hours, so it would be nice to know how much time allocation would be needed to complete the series in time. Any tips? Thanks.

https://netikino.ee/otttanak_themovie_series?

[Oliverk]

5x 45 minutes

[EstWRC]

I definitely recommend it.

IMO It’s better than the movie itself

[Japé]

Watched it last night with one go, couldn't stop. Naturally not any big surprises for those who have seen the movie or follow the WRC, but the series is very well done, the edit, feeling and so on, good production crew for sure, and good look for behind the scenes. Definitely recommend it and will watch it again after some months. It would be perfect if they could had continued this series longer to following years from 2018, but understandably it costs. Hopefully there will be still a sequel done, maybe film crew could get some help for additional filming e.g. from Estonian team personnel.

[AnttiL]

https://www.rallit.fi/ott-tanakin-pitkaaikainen-tukija-taustoittaa-loppukauden-kohupaatosta/

Oleg Gross, long time supporter of Tänak, says about Tänak skipping Monza in an Estonian magazine Ärileht

"We only heard about it by then (probably referring to when it was announced?). There was lots of opinions and questions in the air about why he skipped the event. In the end it didn't make any sense anymore to drive because everything was decided already."
"Ott is also building his own house so he wants to spend more time with his family"

[flat_right]

"We only heard about it by then (probably referring to when it was announced?).

There wasn't anything written about this and I think something was lost in translation. Vice versa, when asked about how much does he talk with Ott, he said "We are good family friends and my son Georg talks with him often. Everything is fine. Ott is also fine."

I tried to understand what could the writer mean by this and the only logical thing would be the leaving of Adamo. Then Oleg Gross said that "Sometimes things happen very suddenly. Adamo's departure was very unexpected."

[EstWRC]

again a very good interview with his sponsor Betsafe, like two years ago but unfortunately no subtitles again, at least at the moment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtVEwxlp5_8

Like always with him, he doesnt go into that details with the answers

- says the COVID situation hit them at the bad time in the beginning of 2020, cause there was a lot work needed to be done (he means with the car as i understand) and the fact that you can test only one day now and other restrictions
- after the Arctic test in Finland, he was rather pessimistic but they found the solution basically at the end of the Otepää Winter rally, found something with suspension.
- always felt bad with the car on tarmac rallies. The car was homologated in the way that it wasnt possible to change it (the way he wanted). They tried a lot of things during the year but never found the window where it worked for him. Says the problem also was that the car was designed by the people who arent in the team anymore, so you couldnt even ask what was the initial design for.
- they did a step back for Rally Estonia after the many breakdowns in a row, but that reduced the speed again. Now afterwards says it wasnt the right idea to push so hard in the beginning of the rally and have punctures but admits he was basically pissed off because of previous breakdowns and that the tyre came off the rim on previous stage.
- Thierrys crash cost them duration tests in South-France and they havent tested on gravel yet with the final car
- Signed the contract that early because if you dont, then you cant see any info at all, let alone test the car
- The guy asks if Loriaux said some funny words about the first version of the car but Ott has a cheeky smile and doesnt answer. Loriaux came when they started to build the second car
- The launch of the car was delayed because of the chip problem and new engineers coming to the team but all those things took time cause of COVID situation in the world
- Says that R5-s could be faster on some parts of the stages this year, maybe even faster on whole stage but all depends of the stage characteristics and the surface
- interestingly says that in the big picture the new car actually doesnt have much less aero than the previous one, it looks like that but because the floor now is sleek and that causes effect like with F1 car and it works
- doesnt get the decision to go back to stick gearshift, says that there is parts on stages where you dont want to have only one arm on the steering wheel + the possible problems with the gearbox
- the coming of hybrid brought extra workers also to the team because you need to do simulations to know where to use the extra power and etc. it will be done also during the rallies. And laughs that the simluation actually costs a lot although FIA wanted to reduce costs

[AnttiL]

Thanks, very interesting details

as for 2020, they had a big meeting after Mexico and thought of lots of things to improve the car. But all testing was banned until summer.

[TypeR]

Cool new information and he looks physically very well prepared for new season!

[flat_right]

A very good interview. Some other things that caught my eye

- Was asked about the missing of the final rally. Says that him not going wouldn't change the championship but would save a life of someone at home. It was important to be at home for a month and be a father for his family
- Says that Adamo’s departure was very unexpected for everyone. Says it was not related to his profession/work life and was related to his personal life. Doesn’t say anything more about it and says that if Adamo will talk about it in the future then we will know.
- Praises new roll cage and says good direction for the safety
- Also said good things about MSport as they have always prepared and started well if the regulations change. But doesn’t think anything about the testing videos of other teams as we don't know what is the purpose of the test, what are the conditions, have they remembered the stage etc.
- Was asked if they can drive and will they drive local rallies with Rally1 car. Ott said that if the local federation allows then yes, they can drive but as it is so early in the season and they don't have many cars then during the first year it will be difficult. But I personally felt that there is interest as testing is needed.
- After Thierry's crash, they didn't have any car to use. Cars were already being built before the crash and in the end they used the car that went to FIA for homologation and after FIA did its job, then they could start testing again. And the same car will also now go to Monte so they can't crash it anymore (they will have 1 more test before Monte).
- Ott doesn't go along with the new FIA president hype in a sense that everything he is saying is good and true but wants to see if the same enthusiasm is there after 6 months. But mentions that after a very long time, the top of FIA is not so much French people based anymore.
- Was asked about the problem especially on the final days of the rallies where nothing is happening and everyone is waiting for the Power Stage. Doesn't fully agree with the idea that we should start giving out points for every stage as the guy who leads the championship doesn't have a chance during the Friday stages. And also understand why Seb was always crying about it.
- Thinks the key point during the first year will be who reacts fastest to their weak(er) points.
- Also praised Hyundai team several times as team is doing a very good job. For example if they had problem with durability then they left no stone unturned and were always looking for more and also now, when they don't have team principal then feels maybe they are even more united.

[EstWRC]

yeah thanks for writing more, it was a long one so i didnt remember all of it. i think i have to watch it again some time

[flat_right]

No problem! There was a lot of info to unpack and I think if you would watch it one more time, you would get more points out of it.

[WRCStan]

Was he asked if he is retiring? 58 minutes of enthusiastic chat says it all.

[flat_right]

Was he asked if he is retiring? 58 minutes of enthusiastic chat says it all.

No and there weren't any hints from his answers that he is thinking about it. Rather I got the impression that he is satisfied with the work that they have done and is reasonably eagerly waiting for the season to start so he can see where they are. Car feels strong and more durable, feels that it can be modified more (compared to old) and some calmness resonated from his answers.

[cali]

I will add this about 2017-2021 car as Ott said that the car's base foundation was designed improperly (at least for him) and the perfect operating window was so narrow. He tried to save or improve as much as they could but for instance on tarmac he didn't felt good with the car at all.
He mentioned few times that how he operates or wants the car to be wasn't matching the i20 at all. He was happy that for the new car's design engineers have ironed out the mistakes of the old car. When asked if maybe he could've used engineers knowledge more during 2020-2021, Ott's reply was a bit shocking to me as he said that there was no original car' s engineers left in the team and thus no specific information available.

I must give huge props for the interviewer (Kalev Kruus), he is every time properly prepared, asks questions which are more advanced and looks into more details. He is huge rally fan himself. I really miss it even on the WRC and AllLive as well. He is a no bullshit journalist and imho we need more guys like him be it on local or world stage. Very enjoyable interview.

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[mknight]

The big (seemingly unasked) question is why he signed for Hyundai and how he views the decision now.

Loeb was saying the same things about the car (particularly on tarmac) a year before, Mikkelsen a year before that again. Both had drastic drops of performance on tarmac.

Yet Tanak thought that he would make it work?

Lessons learned about overconfidence after 2 years of career "lost"?

-------------

Other than that the interesting bit is that they didn't test the new car on gravel at all.

[cali]

We all know why he left Toyota, nothing to do with your called "overconfidence"

[AnttiL]

Contracts are never that simple. It's not just about finding the perfect car for the upcoming season. I think it was simple as being in a dead end at Toyota and M-Sport obviously out of question. You have to make compromises and maybe he was already thinking beyond the current WRC era? And like we saw he made more stage wins in 2021 than anyone else, it's not like the car suited him especially bad, although I'm quite sure that in a Toyota, he would have won at least one of 2020 and 2021 titles if not both, even against Ogier in the same car.

[mknight]

We all know why he left Toyota, nothing to do with your called "overconfidence"

His own words were that when he saw Neuville fighting with him in GB 2019 he got convinced that the Hyundai is a winning car and (finally?) decided to leave.

Surely some reflection on that would be in order.

[mknight]

Contracts are never that simple. It's not just about finding the perfect car for the upcoming season. I think it was simple as being in a dead end at Toyota and M-Sport obviously out of question. You have to make compromises and maybe he was already thinking beyond the current WRC era? And like we saw he made more stage wins in 2021 than anyone else, it's not like the car suited him especially bad, although I'm quite sure that in a Toyota, he would have won at least one of 2020 and 2021 titles if not both, even against Ogier in the same car.

Don't buy that he was thinking about 2022. Specially after his talk about "having the title chance now" in Toyota in 2018.

As you know at Hyundai he was often pushing.even when not completely happy with the car. (Monte 2x, Mexico 20, Estonia 21, Spain 21.., not to count the punctures in important moments).
Resulted in stageiwns but not many points ( see how many stagewins are from Estonia this year).

[AnttiL]

Don't buy that he was thinking about 2022. Specially after his talk about "having the title chance now" in Toyota in 2018.


He was talking about using the title chance in 2018 yes, but he got the title in 2019. We know that he signed for Hyundai before Catalunya was finished, but the title was essentially in his pocket that year already. I would say the decision was easier to make after he got at least one title for his career. And at the same time we remember how Toyota was breaking down all the time for him (remember Sardinia power stage), like Hyundai started to do in 2021 while that behaviour stopped for Toyotas!



As you know at Hyundai he was often pushing.even when not completely happy with the car. (Monte 2x, Mexico 20, Estonia 21, Spain 21.., not to count the punctures in important moments).
Resulted in stageiwns but not many points ( see how many stagewins are from Estonia this year).

I would say it's more down to the car breaking in Portugal and Sardinia. Estonia was his own fault, yes.

I would say Monte 2020 and Mexico 2020 mistakes were due to him trying to go with same driving style as Toyota but it didn't work out with Hyundai, especially in Monte (and it was a new stage anyway, a very very fast section unlike anything in the previous years)

Estonia and Spain were already frustration after having lost the title (like he said in the interview).

He won a lot of stages in Estonia in super rally, but he would have won as many, had he been leading the event.

[mknight]

My point is:

- He didn't go to Hyundai to get 3rd and 5th place in championship (and only 2 rally wins). It is very likely he would have done better in Toyota.

- The "car issues" were quite known by the time he signed. With 3 to 4 drivers suddenly struggling in the car (Loeb, Mikkelsen, Paddon and partly Sordo (from tarmac specialist to "slow gravel" specialist))

=> He was confident he (and the team) would make the car work and they did not.
= overconfidence, just like Loeb had when he signed for Hyundai at end of 2018 or like Ogier had when he signed for Citroen in C3

-------

In retrospective, if he knew how it would turn out in Hyundai would he stay at Toyota? / Was it really impossible to stay?

[AnttiL]

To me it seems he was frustrated at two issues in Toyota
1) bad atmosphere in the team, especially the bosses
2) car breaking all the time

Maybe he saw developing Hyundai as a challenge that was more interesting than continuing the same way at Toyota? In the end he managed to develop Hyundai on gravel to be similar as Toyota in 2019 (capable of winning on slow and fast gravel rallies, but prone to technical failures), but not improve the tarmac handling (like he said in the interview, because of decisions that couldn't be rectified with homologation jokers).¨

Also there's the story that Dani Sordo invited Tänak into his hotel room during some 2019 rally. I need to recheck this story but IIRC this is where Adamo met Tänak for the first time. Maybe Tänak felt that he could make the car work for title fight since Thierry was able to do so, and also Sordo managed the car well on gravel and tarmac.

And once again, contracts are not as simple as just picking the best car at some moment. Cars develop constantly and the car that is best now might not be best next year etc.

[AnttiL]

- Was asked about the missing of the final rally. Says that him not going wouldn't change the championship but would save a life of someone at home. It was important to be at home for a month and be a father for his family

I want to believe him but I think he still attended some tests just before and/or after Monza?

[er88]

He also got a big fat contract and Redgrey running the wrc2 Hyundais.

So not quite as cut and dry as either "he was overconfident/ or he hated the Toyota atmosphere". Lots of reasons combined would've resulted in him switching teams, including the above.

There were a hell of a lot of people on here, including myself, who were sure it wasn't a good move from a purely sporting sense, and that's been the case. He'd probably be a triple world champion by now had he stayed at Toyota (as Ogier wouldn't be in the Toyota had Ott not left the team).

[AnttiL]

He also got a big fat contract and Redgrey running the wrc2 Hyundais.

I remember reading that financially the Hyundai deal wasn't as good as Toyota...but these things we never know for sure. RedGrey is another thing though.

[cali]

He also got a big fat contract and Redgrey running the wrc2 Hyundais.

So not quite as cut and dry as either "he was overconfident/ or he hated the Toyota atmosphere". Lots of reasons combined would've resulted in him switching teams, including the above.

There were a hell of a lot of people on here, including myself, who were sure it wasn't a good move from a purely sporting sense, and that's been the case. He'd probably be a triple world champion by now had he stayed at Toyota (as Ogier wouldn't be in the Toyota had Ott not left the team).Dunno how big or fat the contract was but they were able to keep their business going

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[flat_right]

I want to believe him but I think he still attended some tests just before and/or after Monza?

Yes, he did. Also in the interview he said he said that the first talks to miss the rally were held during the simulation rally that was in the end of October so about one month before the rally. But anyway, I take his word for it and have made peace with it long time ago and hopefully all is okay with him and his family.

My personal opinion why Ott left Toyota was that he was fed up with the atmosphere in the team and how much he has a say on different topics in the team. We can remember clearly that he was very frustrated about how certain things that were discussed about didn't improve (rims, floor). So maybe Adamo came in the right time and said who he is and how things are going to be in the team. If something needs to be done, then it will be done. And if one person in WRC has some track record, then it is Adamo. Maybe it is the beautiful past but if I remember correctly then Hyundai was becoming stronger and stronger and the pattern in Toyota was that if he can't have a say about different development things then soon Hyundai will pass them. Although in the end, Toyota repaired some of the mistakes, then maybe Ott felt that it was too much of a push to get things done and chose other path. And if we take Ott's word for it then he lost financially with the decision.

Sadly Hyundai also started to fall apart too much when Ott came as he made changes to get the car faster and more to his liking. In the interview he said it himself that the car wasn't designed to go that fast. And sometimes they had to take a step back to make some parts stronger (=heavier) and this reduced the speed. And like someone here said that with the new car he feels that all the mistakes are now ironed out and now they have wider window where they can operate and set things up.

[cali]

Yes, he did. Also in the interview he said he said that the first talks to miss the rally were held during the simulation rally that was in the end of October so about one month before the rally. But anyway, I take his word for it and have made peace with it long time ago and hopefully all is okay with him and his family.

My personal opinion why Ott left Toyota was that he was fed up with the atmosphere in the team and how much he has a say on different topics in the team. We can remember clearly that he was very frustrated about how certain things that were discussed about didn't improve (rims, floor). So maybe Adamo came in the right time and said who he is and how things are going to be in the team. If something needs to be done, then it will be done. And if one person in WRC has some track record, then it is Adamo. Maybe it is the beautiful past but if I remember correctly then Hyundai was becoming stronger and stronger and the pattern in Toyota was that if he can't have a say about different development things then soon Hyundai will pass them. Although in the end, Toyota repaired some of the mistakes, then maybe Ott felt that it was too much of a push to get things done and chose other path. And if we take Ott's word for it then he lost financially with the decision.

Sadly Hyundai also started to fall apart too much when Ott came as he made changes to get the car faster and more to his liking. In the interview he said it himself that the car wasn't designed to go that fast. And sometimes they had to take a step back to make some parts stronger (=heavier) and this reduced the speed. And like someone here said that with the new car he feels that all the mistakes are now ironed out and now they have wider window where they can operate and set things up.Just to remind what I have been heard that he was part of the problems and many times the cause of conflicts at Toyota. I was able to press that out but my source didn't give me any details beyond that.

As far as I understand Tommi didn't want him to leave....

IMHO we have drifted too far to the past now and are bit off the track so this is my last post about that Subject.

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[cali]

His own words were that when he saw Neuville fighting with him in GB 2019 he got convinced that the Hyundai is a winning car and (finally?) decided to leave.

Surely some reflection on that would be in order.Maybe to you, most of us are at peace with this topic

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[TypeR]

Third season(starting) in Hyundai and still some people over again.. Oh, why he left Toyota? Why didn't continue? Must be money.. yada yada

[flat_right]

Just to remind what I have been heard that he was part of the problems and many times the cause of conflicts at Toyota. I was able to press that out but my source didn't give me any details beyond that.

As far as I understand Tommi didn't want him to leave....



I can see that but usually there are both sides in every conflict. If Ott felt that nothing wasn't done to improve situation and problems still exist then he had to be the one who asks why certain things are not progressing. And if someone felt that he is conflict initiator in these situations then it is their choice. Ott has said it many times that it is never personal, he just wants things done. So if we look like this that in Hyundai Adamo was the one who was pushing things (also said this in this interview) then one can again see why he might have left. Maybe in Toyota everyone were too soft and polite.

Yes, I also agree that too much of the past and would rather discuss current things.

[AnttiL]

I think the leadership and atmosphere in the team was also one of the reasons why Lappi left the team for 2019...and now he came back after some changes in the leadership.

[linni]

I remember reading that financially the Hyundai deal wasn't as good as Toyota...

He said itself it in some Estonian interview that he lost a lot of money going to Hyundai. Just on driver`s contract.

[linni]

I think the leadership and atmosphere in the team was also one of the reasons why Lappi left the team for 2019...and now he came back after some changes in the leadership.

+1

[sti123]

Markko Märtin is Ott's mentor/manager and Ott's move to Hyundai was his decision because he needed new R5 business for Red Grey team, as Toyota finished Katsutas development program with him (Katsutas Ford R5 was rented from RG Team). Money talks, now Ott's wife is sitting in the board of the joint company with MM, SQM2 Invest, their 2020 turnover was 5 089 857€, 2021 4 347 259€.

[linni]

Markko Märtin is Ott's mentor/manager and Ott's move to Hyundai was his decision because he needed new R5 business for Red Grey team, as Toyota finished Katsutas development program with him (Katsutas Ford R5 was rented from RG Team). Money talks, now Ott's wife is sitting in the board of the joint company with MM, SQM2 Invest, their 2020 turnover was 5 089 857€, 2021 4 347 259€.

It`s really hard, if not possible to imagine, that Markko could make a decision for Ott. Ott, being solid "saarlane" (i.e.islander, something like an old tough-as-rock scotch fart). He is anything else but a stupid person.
Not saying, R5 program had no impact, but that was definitely not the main reason.

Besides, Ott is probably making this 5 mil euros and more a year only on salary and bonuses. And this is net income, not turnover, where profit could be even negative.

[Kradovech]

Just a heads up - the interview now has english subtitles, if any of you foreigners want to take a look

[mknight]

I agree that in 2019 Hyundai was on an upward trajectory. They improved the car on fast gravel (Finland 2019) and were spending tons of money on testing rallies with Loeb to improved tarmac (which ultimately didn't help).

While Toyota seemed a bit less ahead than at end of 2018 and has some issues like rims (though quite a few of those punctures were clearly driver mistakes, like Corsica 2019).

Anyway a big interview summing up the 2017 WRC cars era is exactly where these kinds of topics should be asked about ( if the interviewer is sharp). Ex. "Did you think you would make the car work on tarmac even after drivers like Loeb struggled?

The mentality of deliberately avoiding the topic by some people here is quite astonishing. Open wound?


. And like someone here said that with the new car he feels that all the mistakes are now ironed out and now they have wider window where they can operate and set things up.

Tanak says they never even tested the new car on gravel before homologation.

[Mirek]

Tanak says they never even tested the new car on gravel before homologation.

Which sounds like a recipe for disaster.

[bandit12]

Which sounds like a recipe for disaster.
It is hard not to agree with you. Hopefully they catch up.

[flat_right]

Tanak says they never even tested the new car on gravel before homologation.

This is true but it is not as dramatic as it might seem. They tested this first version of the car on gravel, which in Ott's words wasn't as different as Adamo claimed to be. He said that the "soul" of the car was still the same (differentials, suspension, some of car's geometry). And they had only planned 1 test anyway which was cancelled because of Thierry's accident. Also the first gravel rally is in the middle of May so they have plenty of time to test for gravel. So in Ott's words "they roughly know where they are on gravel".

[AnttiL]

This is true but it is not as dramatic as it might seem. They tested this first version of the car on gravel, which in Ott's words wasn't as different as Adamo claimed to be. He said that the "soul" of the car was still the same (differentials, suspension, some of car's geometry). And they had only planned 1 test anyway which was cancelled because of Thierry's accident. Also the first gravel rally is in the middle of May so they have plenty of time to test for gravel. So in Ott's words "they roughly know where they are on gravel".

I clicked "like" because it was interesting to hear from Ott that the car is not so different, I knew it was an Adamoism saying that only the rims are the same.

However, I want to add the same as in the news thread: the cars are homologated, all decisions are locked, you can only change the setup or create a homologation joker (when is the next date?) and testing days are very limited (only one day per driver per rally). So although the first gravel rally is in May, they cannot really do anything (except for run the car in their permanent test area / dyno / wind tunnel or do simulations).

[flat_right]

I clicked "like" because it was interesting to hear from Ott that the car is not so different, I knew it was an Adamoism saying that only the rims are the same.

However, I want to add the same as in the news thread: the cars are homologated, all decisions are locked, you can only change the setup or create a homologation joker (when is the next date?) and testing days are very limited (only one day per driver per rally). So although the first gravel rally is in May, they cannot really do anything (except for run the car in their permanent test area / dyno / wind tunnel or do simulations).

Totally understand and I'm also worried about this, to put it mildly. Just wanted to bring out the other side of it and not through speculations and guessing but through Ott's own words. And he admitted himself that the situation is not perfect but also not that bad as "haven't tested on gravel" might seem. The real development starts when they start rallying and gather data, see where they lack compared to others and what is good about this car.

[AnttiL]

Also good to remember that Toyota can test relatively unlimitedly on gravel in Jyväskylä and M-Sport in Greystoke (although that testing will not be that relevant to rallies like Acropolis and Kenya)

[EstWRC]

I don’t even know what to say

It’s like every decision he makes after 2019 is wrong, today the tyre choice again

When he is on it, then the car breaks down

Third year in a row 0 points from monte

Last year when there were rumors about him going to M-sport, I really wished so and after seeing the performance of Ford, I wish it even more it had happened

Okay, the season is still long and it’s just the first rally but as a fan it’s feels like the number of the year changes but the script every year is the same

I hope there’s a different script this year

[bomber21]

Tanak seems lost, bored and unmotivated.

[flat_right]

Tanak seems lost, bored and unmotivated.

Currently I don't feel this way. Rather this was the case in the closing stages of last year when there was no chance for the title and he couldn't set up the car the way he liked. Haven't heard any English interviews from Monte but at least in Estonian media he is saying that car feels good but slow but they know what to do but don't have tools to do it.

[bandit12]

I cant just get over it. He could be at third position right now, without that tire gamble...

[cali]

I cant just get over it. He could be at third position right now, without that tire gamble...Which Ogier has done many years. Waited until the fight in front produces results usually someone either crashing ot having mechanical. It's more typical in Monte.

Agreed, he should've had patience which he clearly doesn't have

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[wyler]

I cant just get over it. He could be at third position right now, without that tire gamble...

that's not really a complete analysis. the retirement came from the accident, not from the tire only. teammates was on the same strategy and get away with it, in the afternoon more than one other driver used the same tire choice.

[bandit12]

Yes. Bot on that morning stage, whole Hyundai team agreed, that it was a risky choice to gain some advantages....

[wyler]

actually a good choice tbh, didn't worked out because of other issues.

[EstWRC]

Was it really a good one? They lost a lot on the icy part

[Päss1928]

actually a good choice tbh, didn't worked out because of other issues.

I don't know. If I was Ott, I would think 10 times before going with the same risky tyre choice that resulted in a DNF last year. He's lost so many rallies because of tyre issues, yet still wants to gamble with them. I don't even know what the upside of that gamble is, 1-2 seconds of gains for 1 stage? Matters a lot in Monte being 7th or whatever he was? It just looks stupid, even if it wasn't his own suggestion.

E: Talking about the 5 tyre gamble, not the slicks on the snowy stage ofc.

[wyler]

I don't know. If I was Ott, I would think 10 times before going with the same risky tyre choice that resulted in a DNF last year. He's lost so many rallies because of tyre issues, yet still wants to gamble with them. I don't even know what the upside of that gamble is, 1-2 seconds of gains for 1 stage? Matters a lot in Monte being 7th or whatever he was? It just looks stupid, even if it wasn't his own suggestion.

E: Talking about the 5 tyre gamble, not the slicks on the snowy stage ofc.

i was talking the opposite, about slicks. 5 tire is ok if you can manage it...but i'm notorious for thinking tanak a "car stressing" driver.

edit: others with only 5 tire and puncturing today...

[wyler]

Was it really a good one? They lost a lot on the icy part

most analysis said so, but without an ok car to the end, remains controversial.

[skarderud]

If i was the teamboss, i would be shit angry on Ott.
1 time, ok
2 times, not ok.
3 times, its f..ing stupid, i would give ham a salary reduction. Its unserious.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[henzo]

im thinking that maybe ott and thierry went out with 1 spare because the hybrid system was not working correctly, and they tried to compensate the extra weight of the hybrid system?

[seb_sh]

On wrc live Interview with Msport, in the background Tanak was there and Malcolm was getting his hand around his shoulder.

[EstWRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJyZr3LXIAcn14j?format=png&name=900x900

[er88]

Ott probably already massively regretting signing that new multi year deal with Hyundai, instead of going back to Msport.

[DrLill]

Perhaps there could be some kind of performance clause in Tänak's contract that he could use to move to M-Sport? I know it probably sounds unrealistic but in F1 there have been such situations where a driver has such clause set in the contract. Although, when I think about it, the driver has then changed teams for the next season and not in the same year. All in all, probably just a wishful thinking from my side since I cannot see how the situation at Hyundai will get any better. But will see.

[cali]

Guys don't lose your minds now. At M-Sport he would not get the salary he needs or wants. You need to look now at the so called bigger picture as he is a family man.

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[EstWRC]

Ott probably already massively regretting signing that new multi year deal with Hyundai, instead of going back to Msport.

like Ott said in that podcast interview."no point to look back to the past, you have to look into future"

whats done is done, now big work ahead to get the car up to speed and working....it wasnt that bad as it seemed

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Nothing would surprise me in this sport. Tanak has earned well since he left M-Sport and I'm sure he'd now prefer to have more Titles than even more money...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJya7UeWUAQhtz6?format=png&name=small

[mknight]

I totally wouldn't be surprised if there are some text messages being sent between Wilson and Tanak to see what is possible. Either one of them has reasons to start it.

[MentalParadox]

Yep... M-Sport has a great car but only average drivers, Tänak is a great driver but with an average car. And they already know each other. It's a match made in Heaven.

[MentalParadox]

Guys don't lose your minds now. At M-Sport he would not get the salary he needs or wants. You need to look now at the so called bigger picture as he is a family man.

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

How many millions does one "need" to raise a family? Anyway, if I was a millionaire sportsman hungry for another title, I'd choose glory over money.

[cali]

How many millions does one "need" to raise a family? Anyway, if I was a millionaire sportsman hungry for another title, I'd choose glory over money.
What I've heard they're thinking already ahead when the career stops and making business decisions. They (together with Märtin) bought quite big chunk of property on the seaside of Tallinn which is about the most expensive place you can have today.

But this is what I've heard so it could be just stupid rumours although the source is quite believable

[Danny0405]

I don’t think renewing with Hyundai can be viewed as a big mistake at the time it was done:
Yeah, we could think M-Sport would make a good car from a technical point of view (2017 is the better example) but the Covid-related financial drought was a certain level of uncertainty for them about their ability to produce an even more expensive car (also having a rookie as development driver even if Matthew Wilson is a very good technical driver and was involved). Moreover, we know M-Sport doesn’t have a big development margin after 6 months or 1 year. So M-Sport was also a risk and their 2021 results were clearly weak compared with 2016 (in 2016, Ostberg could have been 2nd in championship at mid-season without an engine failure in Sardinia). As we said for shares, the past performance is not a prediction of future results.

In addition to that, the Hyundai was clearly the 2nd best car in 2017 from the beginning and quite close from the M-Sport, with more development margin also and Neuville was clearly in championship contention at that time. Don’t forget Neuville was dominant in the two first rallies in 2017 before having some issues (more mistakes than technical). So they should know how to adapt to new regulations.

So, if you add that Hyundai pays much more, it is clearly a logical choice. The fact that Tanak doesn’t adapt to the former i20 is not totally relevant because it was a car already designed whereas, for 2022, he could participate to the development.

That being said, I am worried for Tanak; I was already skeptical that his driving style could suit this new regulation and with a difficult car from the beginning, I don’t know if he has enough fighting spirit when we saw last year; yeah, Tanak did some comebacks in the past but, at a certain age and when you already have a title, it can be more difficult.
I’m less worried about Neuville that seems still hungry and less blockhead so if the Hyundai gets better enough (even slower than Toyota or M-Sport), he can be dangerous in the WDC.

[EstWRC]

i dont think we can say based on one rally that if it suits him or not.

look how he struggled with the previous gen. i20 on tarmac, especially compared to Neuville but this weekend when everything was more or less working for both of them, they both showed basically exactly the same speed (previous years Thierry was comfortably faster), which is a huge step forward cause i consider Thierry a better tarmac driver than Ott, at least definitely on Monte. Monte is Otts weakest rally IMO, not only based on the previous 3 years results but his speed hasnt never been on Monte as good as on other events.

based on the comments he seemed to feel more comfortable than Thierry with the car.

we will see as the season progresses.

[henzo]

Yes, t its like on dirt/snow.the ford was good and mostly problem free on tarmac - but we have yet to see wha
We know that tänak struggled with i20 on tarmac previous seasons, and the i20 struggled with tänak on dirt.
I too in my wet dreams see Tänak in msport again, but i dont think its happening this season, sadly.
Also, in estonian media hyundai said that what aided in the decision of tänak retiring from MC was that they could plant a new engine to his car prior to sweden that way. Otherwise they are limited to 2 engines er season, this way it doesnt count towards the 2.

[AnttiL]

Lasse Lampi was interviewed by Kristian Sohlberg on his twitch channel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giZ7bwxKu8s&t=4008s&ab_channel=KristianSohlberg

For background: In addition to his own driving career, Lampi was working as a test engineer with Audi in the group B days, with Mitsubishi from Galant to Lancer, then also working with Juho Hänninen at Skoda with S2000 cars and finally throughout Toyota's WRC project until he now retired.

Sohlberg asked his views on various drivers and Tänak was one of them. Lampi said:

- Tänak is difficult, especially towards engineers and opinions which are not his
- Tänak is not a team player, always playing into his own bag
- It would have been challenging to find an engineer [to work with Tänak], had Tänak continued [in 2020]
- Lampi got along with Tänak but they had a couple of discussions with "with larger letters"
- Lampi doesn't believe Tänak will be a champion in 2022 because he's been so lost lately, wonders whether it's because of having too tough teammate

1:44:22 into the interview

[flat_right]

Thank you for sharing. As I don't understand Finnish, then I have some questions for you which I hope you can clarify. Does this difficult mean demanding or stubborn? One being like "get this sh*t done" and other rather like "my way or no way". And what does this expression "with larger letters" mean? Haven't hear this one before. Like shouting?

[AnttiL]

Yeah I might have translated badly...difficult means a personality character, as in stubborn or not good at negotiating and co-operating.

Larger letters means higher volume, but I think Lampi said that it was only larger letters, not capital letters, so not total shouting. :D I think he said he used to have similar sessions with Mäkinen as well when Mäkinen was still driving.

[flat_right]

Okay, great inside info. Thanks!

[EstWRC]

not surprised at all, its a known fact from previous years that he is difficult to work with

like Ogier has said, Ott is himselfs worst enemy

[cali]

Yes, I've heard similar stories so no real surprise but still great to hear it from elsewhere as well.

[Eli]

Just saw his interview with his sponsor betsafe: https://youtu.be/FtVEwxlp5_8
To me he looks pretty tired and deflated ahead of the new season and from what he’s saying, they still have a lot of work to be done before the car starts being competitive this year on all surfaces.

[bandit12]

I see that there is no sponsorship between him and Dirtfish anymore. Well... This is not surprise. But now it seems, that Dirtfish is totally ignoring him. Some bad blood between them?

[mknight]

Dirtfish were(are) Adamo's fanboys/friends.

Some connection.there?

[EstWRC]

we dont know how long the sponsorship deal was, maybe it just ended and thats it.

i would say they got what they wanted, they are on a big picture now.

[linni]

not surprised at all, its a known fact from previous years that he is difficult to work with

Tänak is very straightforwarded person. No diplomacy sometimes at all.
When he got fired from Syrius ages ago, rumors were, that team owners wanted him to learn russian, but he instead sent them to sh*g their mothers.
Just rumours, but speaks a lot.

I remember 2003 in Finland, when Markko Märtin was in course to win the rally, we, some Estonian fans, rushed to him to get autographs before some SS in the forest and, seeing us, he ordered security guys in the start to stop us. And that was not a restricted area.

Difficult persons both.

[EstWRC]

I don’t even know what to say

It’s like every decision he makes after 2019 is wrong, today the tyre choice again

When he is on it, then the car breaks down

Third year in a row 0 points from monte

Last year when there were rumors about him going to M-sport, I really wished so and after seeing the performance of Ford, I wish it even more it had happened

Okay, the season is still long and it’s just the first rally but as a fan it’s feels like the number of the year changes but the script every year is the same

I hope there’s a different script this year

it is dfferent, even worse than last two years

[Eli]

it is dfferent, even worse than last two years

Maybe next year he’ll be wearing those red-bull Ford performance overalls and his script will improve, but just wishful thinking at this point.

[flat_right]

This is just plain sad, for fans and I can imagine for himself too.

[EstWRC]

Maybe next year he’ll be wearing those red-bull Ford performance overalls and his script will improve, but just wishful thinking at this point.

i hope so but i really doubt it, he is so tied with Hyundai because of redgrey

it was a huge mistake from him back in the day, yeah money wise good but career wise not

when was the last time that world champion had such a bad seasons after winning the title?

[Eli]

i hope so but i really doubt it, he is so tied with Hyundai because of redgrey

it was a huge mistake from him back in the day, yeah money wise good but career wise not

when was the last time that world champion had such a bad seasons after winning the title?

Petter after 2003?

[EstWRC]

Petter after 2003?

checked from EWRC, had better than Ott has had two last years, many wins and second in the championship the following years

2006 was bad yes, no wins at all but Ott is going on same route this year i fear...only one win also last year

[Eli]

checked from EWRC, had better than Ott has had two last years, many wins and second in the championship the following years

2006 was bad yes, no wins at all but Ott is going on same route this year i fear...only one win also last year

I mean, Gronholm did get his title back in 2002 and before that I can’t recall anyone having such a string of bad seasons.

[TypeR]

I think that if the car won't get more competitive in like next 3-4 rallies, he will either change team or retire..
Can't see him suffering for another year..

[AnttiL]

when was the last time that world champion had such a bad seasons after winning the title?

Kankkunen 1988-1990. He went to Toyota and the car broke down at almost every event during 1988 and 1989. Then he went to Lancia which was outdated in 1990 and Toyota (which he had developed) was a title winning machine.

Sainz's 1993 season was pretty miserable, same for Colin's 1996.

Definitely sad for Tänak, what a talent wasted.

[EstWRC]

Kankkunen 1988-1990. He went to Toyota and the car broke down at almost every event during 1988 and 1989. Then he went to Lancia which was outdated in 1990 and Toyota (which he had developed) was a title winning machine.

Sainz's 1993 season was pretty miserable, same for Colin's 1996.

thanks for the answer, so Kankkunens journey was quite the same then, 3 years of misery. and yeah i had forgotten Colin after 1996

[AnttiL]

thanks for the answer, so Kankkunens journey was quite the same then, 3 years of misery. and yeah i had forgotten Colin after 1996

Also during these years Kankkunen lost the win of his home event every year for a technical fault, from the lead. At least Tänak managed to win Estonia in 2020.

[Eli]

thanks for the answer, so Kankkunens journey was quite the same then, 3 years of misery. and yeah i had forgotten Colin after 1996

But apart from Kankkunen, the others didn't have those miserable 2020-2021-2022 seasons like Tänak's.

[EstWRC]

Also during these years Kankkunen lost the win of his home event every year for a technical fault, from the lead. At least Tänak managed to win Estonia in 2020.

TBH the only win i see him getting this year is Estonia

[Eli]

TBH the only win i see him getting this year is Estonia

Or Finland?

[WRCStan]

Or Finland?

Or Hyundai withdrawal.

[Eli]

Or Hyundai withdrawal.

I really hope it doesn't come to that. We still haven't found our 4th manufacturer so to lose them would be a major hit.

[Eli]

The more I think about it i realize how good was 2019 where you had a champion (almost) in each team. Now we don't have Citroën or a 4th manufacturer for that matter, the 'power' isn't well distributed & I'm guessing if Ott had been in M-Sport or we'd have that 4th manufacturer, the teams would be more evenly matched *assuming M-Sport could get Tänak or Neuviile or even Rovanperä* and if Neuville's car would break down it wouldn't mean Tanäk's car would be next to give up the ghost or vice versa and it would be much closer at the sharp end, also for the manufacturer's title.

[KiwiWRCfan]

i hope so but i really doubt it, he is so tied with Hyundai because of redgrey

Maybe redgrey needs to rebrand as bluepurple

[bandit12]

Maybe redgrey needs to rebrand as bluepurple
I like that idea. Both Marko and Ott stikl has good relations with Malcolm

[EstWRC]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220521/8264bd0e973c2a283b469542873d1f97.jpg

[TypeR]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220521/8264bd0e973c2a283b469542873d1f97.jpg

,,I miss you too!''

[EstWRC]

What’s also worrying for me this week is that he can’t find the right setup second day in a row with the car he helped to develop

[Eli]

What’s also worrying for me this week is that he can’t find the right setup second day in a row with the car he helped to develop

I’m starting to think that once again the car has been developed around Neuville.

[EstWRC]

I’m starting to think that once again the car has been developed around Neuville.

dont want to believe that, as far as i know no team build car around one driver

but what was interesting yesterday in the morning that Neuville said the car is great and Ott said its terrible, lol

[Eli]

dont want to believe that, as far as i know no team build car around one driver

but what was interesting yesterday in the morning that Neuville said the car is great and Ott said its terrible, lol

Well we did learn at the end of the day that Ott had a transmission problem that he’d carried through the day so I’d take everything he says with a grain of salt.

[pantealex]

Have to ask:

Why do you want Ott to MSport?

Yaris seems to be faster than Puma
(even Takamoto is faster than all Ford/Hyundai)

TGR will not run out of development money next year but is Ford giving enough money to MSport next year ?

I know it's not good if all fast drivers are in fast cars.

I also understand that it's good for WRC if every team has proven winner driving but for Ott it would be better if Evans goes to MSport and Ott back to TGR.

"Just my opinion"

[EstWRC]

Cause Toyota has Kalle and they dont want him, simple as that IMO

i agree with you that Toyota has the best overall car so far this season

[Eli]

Was it Ott who tested today the golden plated roof i20 in Sardegna?

[EstWRC]

Neuville

[Danny0405]

Cause Toyota has Kalle and they dont want him, simple as that IMO

i agree with you that Toyota has the best overall car so far this season

Yeah, clearly, Latvala has no interest on Tanak at the moment ... and even for Neuville, it’s not that simple, personally I wouldn’t take him if I was Toyota boss and if Kalle is champion.
So Neuville and Tanak have only 2 choices really: staying in Hyundai for the money and hope an improvement or trying M-Sport with a pay cut but no guarantee for the car as we know M-Sport is not able to be competitive after 2 years (looking at the situation, I’m quite sure that Hyundai would let at least Tanak leave for M-Sport if he accepts to drop his salary; I don’t think so for Neuville)
In the end, staying with Hyundai is probably the best solution, at least for now.

[Eli]

Well, what a difference one rally makes, one minute rock bottom, the next, on the top step of the podium, hopefully they can build on that momentum.

[EstWRC]

Ypres was his 12th different rally win, passed Neuville, McRae, Hirvonen and Kankkunen with this and tied with Latvala and Grönholm. Next one is Sainz with 13 different rally wins and then Ogier with 20 and Loeb 23.

[Eli]

Ypres was his 12th different rally win, passed Neuville, McRae, Hirvonen and Kankkunen with this and tied with Latvala and Kankkunen. Next one is Sainz with 13 different rally wins and then Ogier with 20 and Loeb 23.

Can he make it a hat trick like he did back in Finland-Germany-Turkey 2018?

[EstWRC]

Can he make it a hat trick like he did back in Finland-Germany-Turkey 2018?

who knows, he was second last year in Greece, so only one position needs to be improved ;)

[seb_sh]

Greece will be interesting it's not a Tanak rally imo but he's on some form at the moment and Kalle has the road position disadvantage and the need to just bank some points so who knows.

[Eli]

Greece will be interesting it's not a Tanak rally imo but he's on some form at the moment and Kalle has the road position disadvantage and the need to just bank some points so who knows.

He did win in Turkey back in 2018, and you can’t say that’s not a car breaker, question is, will the car hold together?

[AnttiL]

Last year in Acropolis Ogier barely lost anything during Friday while cleaning the road. Evans second on the road and Neuville third on the road both had issues on SS2 and SS3 so it's difficult to tell from their side but no big losses on the stages they completed normally. It seems those stages are so sandy that they don't clean that much with just a few cars. Although, last year we only had like six competitive entries, it's interesting to see if the condition starts to change for Loeb or Sordo...

[cali]

Don't forget that Tänak starts 2nd so not much of cleaning and Ott will suffer as well.

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[meh]

Tänak delivers, but we should be realists like Tänak himself is.

Win in Finland - this was out of this world effort put into this win. Road position advantage over Rovanperä was helpful as well.

Win in Belgium - again proper effort, but at the same time, he took what was given - Rovanperä, Breen, Neuville out, Evans with penalty.

He said in one interview (I think for some Estonian media) - "we can see from PowerStages (from Finland and Belgium), that we lack from raw speed compared to Toyotas, but we have managed to win".

[AnttiL]

Don't forget that Tänak starts 2nd so not much of cleaning and Ott will suffer as well.

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

Yeah but my point was that there might be not that much cleaning anyway, the first six cars could have equally slippery conditions

[WRC1]

Tänak delivers, but we should be realists like Tänak himself is.

Win in Finland - this was out of this world effort put into this win. Road position advantage over Rovanperä was helpful as well.

Win in Belgium - again proper effort, but at the same time, he took what was given - Rovanperä, Breen, Neuville out, Evans with penalty.

He said in one interview (I think for some Estonian media) - "we can see from PowerStages (from Finland and Belgium), that we lack from raw speed compared to Toyotas, but we have managed to win".

agree almost 100%....just one thing, Breen´s out has nothing to do with Tanak´s win....Breen in his actual form is maybe a competitor to Katsuta or Solberg, but not for Tanak, Kalle, Evans or Neuville

[mknight]

Ogier lacked raw speed for 2 years at MSport and still won both championships.

So realistic yes, but Tanak talks like it's the end of the world everytime he is not winning every stage and leading by 40s after first day like he used to during that period at Toyota.

[flat_right]

Ogier lacked raw speed for 2 years at MSport and still won both championships.

So realistic yes, but Tanak talks like it's the end of the world everytime he is not winning every stage and leading by 40s after first day like he used to during that period at Toyota.

Just to make it clear, Tänak is not talking about raw speed at the stage end, he is talking about car not doing what he wants. Tänak has said himself that he would like to do those times more comfortably i.e. every time he steers he gets the expected result. Rally Finland was the purest example of that - Tänak going full send and matching the Toyota drivers. Neuville not trusting the car and admitting that "I know they will do those corners at full speed but I have no trust". So the car has (raw) speed but it it gives too much surprises.

[TypeR]

Ogier lacked raw speed for 2 years at MSport and still won both championships.

So realistic yes, but Tanak talks like it's the end of the world everytime he is not winning every stage and leading by 40s after first day like he used to during that period at Toyota.
If you are capable of doing that(leading by 40s after 1st day) and car doesn't behave like it should, then ofc it makes driver angry. Cars can be changed better/faster, drivers on the other hand rather difficult.

One stage end comment explains the current i20 pretty well.. ,,I thought smth is broken at the rear, but then realised thar's just the car..''
Hopefully the rear end update makes it better.

[meh]

One stage end comment explains the current i20 pretty well.. ,,I thought smth is broken at the rear, but then realised thar's just the car..''
Hopefully the rear end update makes it better.

you can see it here:
https://www.facebook.com/RallyTroll/videos/1042090453161139/

[Danny0405]

Don’t know if someone noticed it but Moncet’s answer about Tanak’s contract situation sounds quite clear IMO: he probably has some sort of option like Ogier in 2019 to break his contract in exchange for a certain amount of money.

Maybe it is what is playing M-Sport but it would need a serious help (Red Bull?) to do it and to convince the car can still be developed.
And I’m still not convinced it would be a good plan for Tanak to go to M-Sport.
Don’t think Toyota is in the game: would be quite a non-sense for the team to add internal competition to Rovanpera with the risk of messing up everything whereas the situation is good right now.

[flat_right]

Tell me if I'm seeing things but Ott made a post on his social media that all Hyundai special edition merch is -30% (other merch will stay the same). Are they clearing their stock for a new manufacturer?

[Eli]

Tell me if I'm seeing things but Ott made a post on his social media that all Hyundai special edition merch is -30% (other merch will stay the same). Are they clearing their stock for a new manufacturer?

Worse than that, the fact they posted on a ‘special’ announcement that they’re keeping things as they are doesn’t give me much confidence for their immediate future in the wrc but that’s for the Hyundai thread.

[ouvreur]

Worse than that, the fact they posted on a ‘special’ announcement that they’re keeping things as they are doesn’t give me much confidence for their immediate future in the wrc but that’s for the Hyundai thread.
I think that's more a question of wanting to put as much space as possible between themselves and Eric Boullier :laugh:

[cali]

Tell me if I'm seeing things but Ott made a post on his social media that all Hyundai special edition merch is -30% (other merch will stay the same). Are they clearing their stock for a new manufacturer?Yes, so can we make some presumptions?
I think it's wise for Tänak/Järveoja fans to start purchasing TGR merchandise ;)

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[EstWRC]

Tell me if I'm seeing things but Ott made a post on his social media that all Hyundai special edition merch is -30% (other merch will stay the same). Are they clearing their stock for a new manufacturer?

Already after Finland, when he also had a discount sale but for all the stuff, a Belgian site speculated based on that fact that Tänak could be leaving

He has had A discount sale after every win this season but yeah interesting that this time only for Hyundai stuff

[Sergiow]

Worse than that, the fact they posted on a ‘special’ announcement that they’re keeping things as they are doesn’t give me much confidence for their immediate future in the wrc but that’s for the Hyundai thread.

We can really wondering what is going on with the main Hyundai WRC team and what the meaning is of the RedGrey Team (= Ott Tänak and Markko Märtin) is in the whole story. Could it possible that both Tänak and Märtin are also aiming at taking control of the main Hyundai WRC team?

[skarderud]

We can really wondering what is going on with the main Hyundai WRC team and what the meaning is of the RedGrey Team (= Ott Tänak and Markko Märtin) is in the whole story. Could it possible that both Tänak and Märtin are also aiming at taking control of the main Hyundai WRC team?Interesting tought, actually.
Markko Märtin as teamboss, how would that hit on the driver lineup?

Ott as nr1, but the rest?

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[mknight]

Indeed that's a new idea (to me at least).

How much "managing" has Martin done at any point? (I have no idea, just asking). Might be a bit strange that a current (or former in that case) manager of the main driver will be team boss.

On the other hand at Toyota Latvala who was always managed by Jouhki is now the boss of Rovanpera also managed by Jouhki.

[Co-driven]

We can really wondering what is going on with the main Hyundai WRC team and what the meaning is of the RedGrey Team (= Ott Tänak and Markko Märtin) is in the whole story. Could it possible that both Tänak and Märtin are also aiming at taking control of the main Hyundai WRC team?

I remember reading somewhere that Hyundai wasn't happy with RedGrey, especially after problem with Sunninen's car in Finland, and the "works" Rally2 car would be run in-house. Sorry, but I can't find/remember where I read this...

[bandit12]

I remember reading somewhere that Hyundai wasn't happy with RedGrey, especially after problem with Sunninen's car in Finland, and the "works" Rally2 car would be run in-house. Sorry, but I can't find/remember where I read this...

Well. If they terminate that Redgrey deal, then i might believe that Tänak to M Sport stuff

[mknight]

So after all the clarifying and rumors we now have two complete opposites with Tanak leaving and Redgrey ending on one side and Redgrey+Martin taking over whole Hyundai.

[AnttiL]

On the other hand at Toyota Latvala who was always managed by Jouhki is now the boss of Rovanpera also managed by Jouhki.

Mäkinen was also managered by Jouhki

[meh]

One thing I can not imagine - Märtin as a team boss == public face, giving interviews etc. Märtin is like shadow for media, he is somewhere, doing something, but mostly avoiding cameras.

Interesting idea anyway :)

[cali]

Märtin as a team boss is a no go.
I don't think this idea will suit koreans as well the french speaking at HSMG.

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[WRCStan]

Well. If they terminate that Redgrey deal, then i might believe that Tänak to M Sport stuff

But which is cause and which is effect?

[Eli]

https://www.autohebdo.fr/actualites/rallye/wrc/ott-tanak-pourrait-decider-de-prendre-du-recul.html

According to the article, Tänak could take a step back like he did last year in Monza, could be very logical if Rovanperä takes the title here in NZ.

[TypeR]

Hopefully now this question is set aside and everybody won't ask it 10 times a day.

[er88]

He'd be an idiot if he misses Japan.


^Scrap that comment, I'm the idiot for not reading the full translated article etc

[TypeR]

He'd be an idiot if he misses Japan.

He's not in Toyota, so not that important anyway..

[WRCStan]

He'd be an idiot if he misses Japan.

They're on about 2023.

[er88]

He's not in Toyota, so not that important anyway..It's a new event that's seemingly going to be in the championship for years (and an event towards the end of the calendar). Go and experience it so he is on a level playing field next year when a championship might be at stake

[JLunen]

But he is also considering to stay at home next season and in that case it doesn't matter if he did Japan or not. Even though we are on a rally forum, there are bigger things in life than rally. At least for most people.

[er88]

Ah ok, got mistaken by just reading Eli's post instead of translating the whole article.

[EstWRC]

it is dfferent, even worse than last two years


TBH the only win i see him getting this year is Estonia

how things can change, i wrote those posts after Rally Portugal, when everything just seemed so miserable and the car and the team was just nowhere. we really believed with friends that he will get no win or only one win this season.

now 5 months later, we have 3 wins and he has been out of podium only on Rally Safari cause of technical/mechanical issues. Great consistency

Points since Sardegna:

Ott 136
Kalle 131
Thierry 84
Elfyn 80
Takamoto 62

[AnttiL]

how things can change, i wrote those posts after Rally Portugal, when everything just seemed so miserable and the car and the team was just nowhere. we really believed with friends that he will get no win or only one win this season.

now 5 months later, we have 3 wins and he has been out of podium only on Rally Safari cause of technical/mechanical issues. Great consistency

Points since Sardegna:

Ott 136
Kalle 131
Thierry 84
Elfyn 80
Takamoto 62

And he didn't even win Estonia ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

how things can change, i wrote those posts after Rally Portugal, when everything just seemed so miserable and the car and the team was just nowhere. we really believed with friends that he will get no win or only one win this season.

now 5 months later, we have 3 wins and he has been out of podium only on Rally Safari cause of technical/mechanical issues. Great consistency

Points since Sardegna:

Ott 136
Kalle 131
Thierry 84
Elfyn 80
Takamoto 62

Fair enough, but Kalle had the points on the board after Portugal so his approach may have been different if he was in Ott's position. And of course Ott had nothing to lose after that start to the year and could just go all-out for wins.

[denkimi]

Fair enough, but Kalle had the points on the board after Portugal so his approach may have been different if he was in Ott's position. And of course Ott had nothing to lose after that start to the year and could just go all-out for wins.

kalle has 3 wins, a second place and 2 crashes since sardegna. That surely looks like someone going all-out for wins.

[TypeR]

Happy birthday, champ! :)

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfxwH-NXgAIQfoY?format=jpg&name=large

[Brynmor Pierce]

Off to msport to help develop their Darak project and also WRC in Puma I would reckon

[Eli]

I don’t even know what to say

It’s like every decision he makes after 2019 is wrong, today the tyre choice again

When he is on it, then the car breaks down

Third year in a row 0 points from monte

Last year when there were rumors about him going to M-sport, I really wished so and after seeing the performance of Ford, I wish it even more it had happened

Okay, the season is still long and it’s just the first rally but as a fan it’s feels like the number of the year changes but the script every year is the same

I hope there’s a different script this year

I think for sure 2023 will have a different script, hopefully, fingers crossed, one that says, title fight on his hands.

[meh]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220521/8264bd0e973c2a283b469542873d1f97.jpg

So, the caption is: "Tänak between Toyota and M-Sport cars analyzing the future options"

[meh]

A lot of "what if-s", but really seems like wasted 3 years of prime-time. Remembered my own comment after Rally Sardinia:

https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?42333-Rally-Italia-Sardegna-2022&p=1301041&viewfull=1#post1301041


Watched the rally and got some hope that they have improved a lot.

Now watched that interview.. and I'm not that optimistic anymore.

I can imagine, how disappointed he actually can be. I remember from some interview, when he was asked for future perspective after winning the title - he said, that he is interested to be part of building new generation car, to be able to build the things like he sees the best.

For that exact reason he made the contract quite early last year. and then... Hyundai basically just blew it up with delaying every kind of decisions to start development, then lack of leadership with Adamo leaving and there is still Neuville's legacy with what they driving. He is master, he can adapt his driving, but it's not something like "being one with the car" effect. He is really good mechanic, he was in important role for building successful car for M-Sport for 2017. And now... Such a waste of talent and waste of time in a way.

From positive side - if they will get it working, it will taste good for sure :)

One more thing. It was Adamo personally who hired/convinced him to join. They seemed to match quite well, and we know how that developed - Adamo left. Another reason, why he joined, didn't realize or do not exists anymore.

[EstWRC]

David Evans thoughts https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/tanaks-left-hyundai-but-what-does-he-do-next/

Sound like he won’t be driving next year

[Fast Eddie WRC]

David Evans thoughts https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/tanaks-left-hyundai-but-what-does-he-do-next/

Sound like he won’t be driving next year

Makes sense as the other team options aren't really practical (MSport) or necessary (Toyota).

Surely if he wanted to keep competing he would negotiate a new drive before quitting Hyundai.

[meh]

Actually I can not see too much logic behind "M-Sport does not have enough money to hire Tänak".

The sentence is true in condition when there are many team fighting to get Tänak to their team, but this is not the case at the moment.

If money could be priority no 1, why he left Hyundai then? So it's not probably most important thing.

At the moment I would say, if Tänak want to drive for M-Sport, he can do it. Means he is not forced to retire.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Switch to drive for M-Sport on the cheap instead of staying at Hyundai for €millions ? I dont think so.

[dimviii]

if Ott has to quit,why he didnt announced it yesterday?
cant see the logic

[Sal yet again]

Wish him well whatever he chooses and if its a different chapter outside the sport then the best of luck to him and his family.

[doubled1978]

Switch to drive for M-Sport on the cheap instead of staying at Hyundai for €millions ? I dont think so.

I know it would be unusual, but of all the drivers that could possibly do that he would be top of my list. He has spent the last 5 years at Toyota and Hyundai, getting paid very well, but never really being the favoured driver despite his ability.
Maybe for him the prospect of being the guy who the team gets behind and be able to lead the development of not only the WRC, but the Dakar too, is more appealing than battling against the tide in a team more orientated around another driver.

Of course it may not happen, but with him it wouldn’t surprise me as much as it would others if it did.

[manthey]

A lot of "what if-s", but really seems like wasted 3 years of prime-time. Remembered my own comment after Rally Sardinia:

https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?42333-Rally-Italia-Sardegna-2022&p=1301041&viewfull=1#post1301041

The final reason you mentioned in the end is about rally2?

[KertR]

I think there is not much left for Tänak. Definetly Toyota has no interest for Tänak, Rovanpera is doing the job, M-Sport there is no perspective for Tänak. If Tänak wanted to continue his career, only way was Hyundai, now when he leaves Hyundai there are no opportunities left.

Yes 100% he could go to M-Sport, Malcolm would be happy, but dont think that Tänak wants to fight with a car thats not on the level others and with no salary.

So the most logical end of the story is retirement as sad as it is.

[er88]

Can see Tanak doing selected events next season, so he can drive for the fun of it while also getting to spend more time with the family.

Msport would make sense, how good would be if Tanak and Loeb could split a season between them. Msport would have a potential winner on every rally.

Or....,what about split season at Toyota with Ogier ;)? You'd imagine Tanak wanting to do a lot of events Ogier won't - for instance Sweden, Estonia, Finland etc. And he can also help with the rally2 development and his redgrey team can get their paws on that potential cashcow....

If he was retiring or taking a sabbatical I'm sure he would've announced that in his statement. Plus, if he wasn't driving next year, would it be in Tanak or Hyundais best interest to do Japan together (with both titles wrapped up? Ott could stay at home with his family and Hyundai could give Suninen/Mikkelsen/Meeke or whoever a drive instead.

Best case scenario is he does the full season and leads Msport.

[1988senna]

why so many people feel tanak will retire?? and I'm feeling he will continue in Toyota in 2023 no matter how latvala think. it's the Mr toyoda who make the decision