Rally Japan 2010

[bt52b]

SS23: Petter has had broken front left damper and some steering problems for last few stages

[N.O.T]

Hirvonen will say bye bye to his position on this stage....Ogier seems to clear things up. but its not over yet 1 spin can make the difference.

[pettersolberg29]

Mikko only +7. Was +15s at same point last time so I assume Petter is struggling.

[N.O.T]

Pataer is already faster than his morning time by 2 seconds though...

[N.O.T]

Ogier marches on....

[jonkka]

Loeb missing a split...

[blissard]

Broken damper......... :(

[pettersolberg29]

Great stage times for Petter if his problem is as bad as it sounds.

[N.O.T]

Latvala with a stellar drive passes Sordo...who was very upset at the end !!!!

Ogier most likely secures the win...if something doesn't happen.

[blissard]

Aargh, so typical, just finish the race and let's forget about the whole thing. Time for some well overdue sleep.

[N.O.T]

Both Loeb and Sordo report that they lose too much on slow parts....

[WRCfan]

When is Petter going to catch a break? I know it's only Seb juniors 2nd win although why does it feel like another procession where Loeb is going to win?

Same car & same colours? haha

[tmx]

Right, Petter isn't going to win. He might had a chance without that penalty. End of rally for me, goodnight. Follow again in Wales when Petter has another chance.

Loeb finishing behind other drivers is good tactical decision for Sordo and Ogier to increase their championship points (for Ogier to stay ahead of Latvala and Dani to catch up with Petter) now that Citroen has both championships in the bag. Loeb and Ogier/Dani could drive for Junior team and try to beat Ford manu team. Kimi + Ogier/Dani in lead team, probably isn't going to happen, but would be good for PR with F1 champion in lead team. If they do this, both main and junior Citroen team can potentially beat Ford manu team.

I wish when Loeb purposely drive slow he should stop pretending and Paul King should stop patronizing the viewers as if Loeb is struggling.


When is Petter going to catch a break? I know it's only Seb juniors 2nd win although why does it feel like another procession where Loeb is going to win?

Same car & same colours? haha And same name, same driver, same boring personality (sorry if I offend any Ogier fans, just my opinion).

[xavier]

....
And same name, same driver, same boring personality (sorry if I offend any Ogier fans, just my opinion).

No offense taken, but really? Are we, as rally fan, looking for entertainers or good rally drivers?

Don't take me wrong, I enjoy the likes of Petter or Marcus, but down the line I surely prefer seeing Ogier becoming the driver that will be able to challenge Loeb next year, rather than seeing one great personality shooting to be 2nd or 3rd in the standings!

[pettersolberg29]

No offense taken, but really? Are we, as rally fan, looking for entertainers or good rally drivers?

Don't take me wrong, I enjoy the likes of Petter or Marcus, but down the line I surely prefer seeing Ogier comes to be the driver that will be able to challenge Loeb next year, rather than seeing one great personality shooting to be 2nd or 3rd in the standings!

I like having both. Entertainers don't seem interesting unless there are some boring drivers too.

[Langdale Forest]

Ogier has won.

[Ucci]

Great success for young Seb!! He clearly showed his superiority over Ford official boys and this is a clear message to Mr.Wilson, that for the next season Ford will strugle even more to win some rallies. Still I must congratulate to Peter Solberg for an excelent performance over those three days-yust imagine no penalty for him, we could see a private car winning an WRC event.About Hirvonen-it is clearly that he lost his motivation. I expect even worse performance in Spain&France.
Talking about Spain&France-Kimster must present a superb drive, as this is his last chance to correct the impression about him...Otherwise all the fame as a rally roockey will collect Mr.Kubica...

[ste898]

Yet another boiring event..............I so wanted Petter to win bur alas not this time.

[pino]

Congrats to Ogier but I really wanted Petter to win this :(

[6789]

Ah, I can't believe it, really though Petter had this one. 3 more rallies left and one big chance left for him in Wales.

My predictions for the next 3 rallies are

France: Loeb
Spain: Sordo
GB: P. Solberg

Going to be a good way to finish the year, although the championships are sealed up. Could end up with 6 different winners which is something cool

[Tomi]

Congrats to Ogier, nice and well deserved win, not so bad of Ketomaa either, the pace is there.

[N.O.T]

Very nice win by Ogier.

[dimviii]

congrats to Ogier for the win.
Pitty for Mikko.....i doubt if he can find his speed with 2 asphalt rallies in a row.

[Rallyper]

Great success for young Seb!! He clearly showed his superiority over Ford official boys and this is a clear message to Mr.Wilson, that for the next season Ford will strugle even more to win some rallies. Still I must congratulate to Peter Solberg for an excelent performance over those three days-yust imagine no penalty for him, we could see a private car winning an WRC event.About Hirvonen-it is clearly that he lost his motivation. I expect even worse performance in Spain&France.
Talking about Spain&France-Kimster must present a superb drive, as this is his last chance to correct the impression about him...Otherwise all the fame as a rally roockey will collect Mr.Kubica...

Only the difference that this time it was technical failure not the drivers which caused them the bad result.

Both Mikko and JML had the speed.

[alleskids]

Jari Ketoma won SWRC, Martin Prokop 2nd. Third entered SWRC Bernard Sousa retired. PG Andersson is indeed excluded from SWRC, only his Swedisch results as wild card counts. Jani Touhino was disqualified earlier, but his team JanPro still is in the championship

1 Pons 96 (2 wins)
1 Prokop 96
3 Ketomaa 83 (3 wins)
4 Sandell 74 (1 win)

[Mirek]

Matt was quite unlucky in his retirement yesterday...
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs639.snc4/59915_10150250954200403_10150137030195403_14708676 _872155_n.jpg

[Karukera]

]Matt was quite unlucky in his retirement yesterday...
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs639.snc4/59915_10150250954200403_10150137030195403_14708676 _872155_n.jpg

I wouldn't say unlucky. He put himself in this ridiculous situation.

[Barreis]

Why didn't he drive to the woods?!

[WRCfan]

As much as I wanted Petter to win congrats to Seb jr. Was a excellent drive for his first time in Japan.

Would really like Solberg to get a rally win in GB as he really does deserve it. No one can deny that. He has the pace, although has been dogged by problems this rally. Wishing him the best of luck for GB!

WRCfan

[N.O.T]

can someone please tell e what cheeseburger boy says after his off ? Sounds upset about something....

http://www.wrc.com/video/onboards/japan-2010-hirvonen-without-a-paddle/?vid=1746

[ProRally]

Rally Japan 2010 done and dusted....
Congrats to Seb, but even more to Petter.
Good job of Jari in SWRC and Patrick in PWRC.
Now quickly to Tokyo and then tuesday back to Europe

[Juha_Koo]

can someone please tell e what cheeseburger boy says after his off ? Sounds upset about something....

http://www.wrc.com/video/onboards/japan-2010-hirvonen-without-a-paddle/?vid=1746


Kimi: "Ohh ff*uck!" What was that?! (probably referring to his notes)

Kimi: Oh for f*ck sake! It was here the...[sentence cut short] (probably remembering the place from recce and it's difficulty) Here it is, game over. Perkele.

Kimi: I remembered a totally wrong corner. My mistake.

[N.O.T]

Kimi: "Ohh ff*uck!" What was that?! (probably referring to his notes)

Kimi: Oh for f*ck sake! It was here the...[sentence cut short] (probably remembering the place from recce and it's difficulty) Here it is, game over. Perkele.

Kimi: I remembered a totally wrong corner. My mistake.

Thanx for the translation

the last sentence means a lot.....F1 attitude at its finest.....

what are the initials of the finnish unemployment office again ?

[gloomyDAY]

Thanx for the translation

the last sentence means a lot.....F1 attitude at its finest.....

what are the initials of the finnish unemployment office again ?I don't know what your problem is against Kimi.

Kimi brought more attention to the WRC, he's going flat-out every rally, and tends to post competitive times. I think you've forgotten that this is Kimi's first year in the WRC and it takes time to acclimatize to a different driving style and working with a co-driver.

Give credit to the man for having some huevos!

[driveace]

Huevos !Thought that was Spanish for eggs! or is that Heuvos?

[Mintexmemory]

Great success for young Seb!! He clearly showed his superiority over Ford official boys and this is a clear message to Mr.Wilson, that for the next season Ford will strugle even more to win some rallies. Still I must congratulate to Peter Solberg for an excelent performance over those three days-yust imagine no penalty for him, we could see a private car winning an WRC event.About Hirvonen-it is clearly that he lost his motivation. I expect even worse performance in Spain&France.
Talking about Spain&France-Kimster must present a superb drive, as this is his last chance to correct the impression about him...Otherwise all the fame as a rally roockey will collect Mr.Kubica...

All that SO has shown is Citroen's mechanical superiority over Ford with the current cars. Had JML not had the driveshaft failure I've no doubt he would have won and Mikko had a number of gremlins all rally. Seb O is a great driver but NZ, Finland and Japan up until the end of day 2 tell you who is currently the best gravel driver (even in a car which requires over-driving to stay in touch with the opposition). Now if JML can use Spain and France to develop the approach he showed in Germany then next year will be very interesting.

[N.O.T]

All that SO has shown is Citroen's mechanical superiority over Ford with the current cars. Had JML not had the driveshaft failure I've no doubt he would have won and Mikko had a number of gremlins all rally. Seb O is a great driver but NZ, Finland and Japan up until the end of day 2 tell you who is currently the best gravel driver (even in a car which requires over-driving to stay in touch with the opposition). Now if JML can use Spain and France to develop the approach he showed in Germany then next year will be very interesting.

that logic really will not get you anywhere....

if Latvala and hirvonen come back strong next year with your logic will just do so due to the mechanical superiority of the fords....

It was Sebastien ogiers FIRST EVER rally japan...i think that alone makes his win way more important and meaningful and not knowing the roads (not even having notes !!!!) definately is a bigger handicap in modern WRC than any minor mechanical superiority.

[gloomyDAY]

that logic really will not get you anywhere....

if Latvala and hirvonen come back strong next year with your logic will just do so due to the mechanical superiority of the fords....

It was Sebastien ogiers FIRST EVER rally japan...i think that alone makes his win way more important and meaningful and not knowing the roads (not even having notes !!!!) definately is a bigger handicap in modern WRC than any minor mechanical superiority.Your logic is skewed. Ogier has a lot more experience in rallying than Kimi and obviously that counts for something. I think Kimi's notes are his weakest point, which can only be mended by experience, because Kimi has shown some flashes of pace throughout the season.

I don't even know where to begin on the JML/Mikko analogy.
Doesn't make any sense! :laugh:

Honestly, you just seem like an overall negative person. You were taking a dump on Petter for not being competitive in a Subaru and now that he actually has something worthwhile beneath his bum you stop the criticism. You were wrong then and you're wrong again today.

[N.O.T]

Your logic is skewed. Ogier has a lot more experience in rallying than Kimi and obviously that counts for something. I think Kimi's notes are his weakest point, which can only be mended by experience, because Kimi has shown some flashes of pace throughout the season.

I don't even know where to begin on the JML/Mikko analogy.
Doesn't make any sense! :laugh:

Honestly, you just seem like an overall negative person. You were taking a dump on Petter for not being competitive in a Subaru and now that he actually has something worthwhile beneath his bum you stop the criticism. You were wrong then and you're wrong again today.

read the post again...the comparison was between Ogier and the ford drivers....not kimi...it would be sacriledge to involve kimi in a comparison with a rally driver. but i guess you had to argue with me on something, even irrelevant......

I have said many times that Solberg really proved me wrong on some of my points i made abut him...on others not.

[gloomyDAY]

read the post again...the comparison was between Ogier and the ford drivers....not kimi...it would be sacriledge to involve kimi in a comparison with a rally driver. but i guess you had to argue with me on something, even irrelevant......

I have said many times that Solberg really proved me wrong on some of my points i made abut him...on others not.I read the post, alright, and it seems as if you're trying to back step on something you now find wrong. My initial post had nothing to do with Ogier because I was discussing Kimi's rally. I find your hubris over a world champion quite humorous.

[N.O.T]

I read the post, alright, and it seems as if you're trying to back step on something you now find wrong. My initial post had nothing to do with Ogier because I was discussing Kimi's rally. I find your hubris over a world champion quite humorous.

yes but my quote was on mintexmemories post not yours...so why involve kimi
?

[Mintexmemory]

:p NOT, people will always assume you are bashing Kimi, even when you aren't!
My point is that JML, in a car that doesn't keep braking on him, (unless you contend that is because he is more careless in looking after his machine) is, at present, quicker than little Seb. In an equally matched car I think results show that JML is number 2 behind Maestro Loeb, though Petter fans will say that his Citroen isn't equally matched ;) . Of course this is only an opinion but next year I think will much more about the driver than the car and this will show how much JML has matured in 2010.

[N.O.T]

:p NOT, people will always assume you are bashing Kimi, even when you aren't!
My point is that JML, in a car that doesn't keep braking on him, (unless you contend that is because he is more careless in looking after his machine) is, at present, quicker than little Seb. In an equally matched car I think results show that JML is number 2 behind Maestro Loeb, though Petter fans will say that his Citroen isn't equally matched ;) . Of course this is only an opinion but next year I think will much more about the driver than the car and this will show how much JML has matured in 2010.

indeed latvala is a bit faster on gravel for now....but you have to take into account the experience he has both of the events and also from a WRC car...its Ogiers 1st full year in a wrc and by full i mean its his first year which invloves thorough development and testing. I think latvala is going to be his biggest rival in the future when the emperor retires.

As for the car lets hope that all 3 manufacturers start on equal basis and those that come are up to speed in a short time, but again as in everything in life what you spend is what you get so if ford (m-sport) continues to waste sponsor money on 5 year plans and see the WRC as an income provider then it will not take long for citroen and other manufacturers to be ahead once more.

[The D Man]

Daniel Elena smoking while in refuel!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHxRM3zHoGM

[bluuford]

Now I know why Loeb was so slow in Japan. Seems like Elena has gained some weight :-P!

[N.O.T]

yes indeed...however he is far slimmer than when he started in the WRC.

[Mintexmemory]

Biggest weight loss of 2010 is replacing Cato with Ilka - beats going on a personal dief :D

[ARF]

Daniel Elena smoking while in refuel!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHxRM3zHoGM

Clearly out of refuel.

[Rallyper]

yes but my quote was on mintexmemories post not yours...so why involve kimi
?

It could be interesting doing that, because regarding to Kimi from your point of view, it doesn´t matter whether he´s good or bad in writing pacenotes. He´s just slow.
On the other hand you think SO has a big disadvantage not having driven in Japan before, just regardning pacenotes.

You are inconceqvent as someone posted above. And that´s for sure. I wonder what your age is? Hamburger age or maybe starting losing memory....

[N.O.T]

It could be interesting doing that, because regarding to Kimi from your point of view, it doesn´t matter whether he´s good or bad in writing pacenotes. He´s just slow.
On the other hand you think SO has a big disadvantage not having driven in Japan before, just regardning pacenotes.

You are inconceqvent as someone posted above. And that´s for sure. I wonder what your age is? Hamburger age or maybe starting losing memory....

there is a slight difference between them .... Ogier is fighting for wins and kimi at the local Mcdonalds with some bigmacs, so notes or no notes the difference is not too big for both, but in the case of ogier this little detail can make the difference and win events while in the case of fatboy it makes the difference in be faster than the 5 year plan son....when was the last time you saw a guy fighhting with villagra and wilson to be on the pace the next year ?

usually you cannot get so much faster over the years, especially if you 31-32 years old....at best if cheeseburger fatboy remains in the WRC will manage and beat wilson on every rally without too much effort and without crashing...

[JFL]

not a good advert for Citröen anyways.... I'll bet this video will get a lot of clicks.. ;)

[Rallyper]

not a good advert for Citröen anyways.... I'll bet this video will get a lot of clicks.. ;)

What video?? :confused:

[Barreis]

Ferrari's main sponsor is tobacco industry so he doesn't care 'cos 7th title is very close..

[Psycho!]

not a good advert for Citröen anyways.... I'll bet this video will get a lot of clicks.. ;)

Just look at his tummy afterwards.....My God he is supposed to be a sportsman...That's why Loeb wasn't so fast here...

[noel157]

Does it really matter that he has a bit of a beer belly and likes a smoke or two? Loeb has an odd cigarette too doesn't he? Suppose it's a sign of the times.
Good thing Ronnie Peterson is about these days.

[bowler]

the car was not in refuel, it was in the zone where the tapes and cameras are serviced

[N.O.T]

Does it really matter that he has a bit of a beer belly and likes a smoke or two? Loeb has an odd cigarette too doesn't he? Suppose it's a sign of the times.
Good thing Ronnie Peterson is about these days.

i doubt any top driver smokes....co-drivers can do whatever they want....

[ProRally]

Does it really matter that he has a bit of a beer belly and likes a smoke or two? Loeb has an odd cigarette too doesn't he? Suppose it's a sign of the times.
Good thing Ronnie Peterson is about these days.

Or Tapio Laukaunen, I still remember him take a last drawn of his cigarette when his co-driver was counting down at the start, flinging the cigarette out of the window of his Golf and starting the stage with the blue smoke coming out of his mouth :D :D :D

Good old Tapsa....

[Woodeye]

Ogier is fighting for wins and kimi at the local Mcdonalds with some bigmacs...

...at best if cheeseburger fatboy remains in the WRC will manage and beat wilson on every rally without too much effort and without crashing...

You're just yet again proving what a clown you really are. If someone is driving slowly, sure go ahead and write that he's slow. But would it be too much to ask from you to pay at least some respect to drivers and not call them "fatboy" or whatever. That's just idiotic and shows what a little kid you are. It's not fun, it's not "cool" or whatever word you little kids use these days and none here on the forum will give any respect for you because of that.

[jiipee64]

Can You quess whats behind his back?
There is a hint in the picture.

Not judging just an observation :)

[Loose_Unit]

i doubt any top driver smokes....co-drivers can do whatever they want....

i beg to differ. i have seen seb loed AND co driver puffing away during recce in new zealand this year. I was doing recce for our part of the rally and during a break they were both seen having a smoke.

[noel157]

i beg to differ. i have seen seb loed AND co driver puffing away during recce in new zealand this year. I was doing recce for our part of the rally and during a break they were both seen having a smoke.

Yes, thankyou, as I said Loeb has the odd smoke. Does that mean NOT is wrong? Surely not?

[MJW]

I think you will be surprised how many sporting figures still smoke, even in this politically correct time. I have seen Marcus Gronholm smoke a cigar and having a beer, (this was on the Friday night of Rally Sweden when he was with Peugoet) and hadn't retired or super rallied - I think he won that year.
Also Elena is a regular smoker, didnt know about Loeb, Kimi smokes, Michael Schumacher (occasionally) a whole host of England footballers, (but that doesn't count for me as its not sport unless it has an engine)

[N.O.T]

You're just yet again proving what a clown you really are. If someone is driving slowly, sure go ahead and write that he's slow. But would it be too much to ask from you to pay at least some respect to drivers and not call them "fatboy" or whatever. That's just idiotic and shows what a little kid you are. It's not fun, it's not "cool" or whatever word you little kids use these days and none here on the forum will give any respect for you because of that.

respect is earned...and to see a sportman deteriorate into a guy who is in top sport and doesn't care about his physical condition is disgsting. So as long as he doesn;t respect the sport he gets no respect either....if he wanted to be a fatboy he could do it out of the WRC field by staying home.

[N.O.T]

I think you will be surprised how many sporting figures still smoke, even in this politically correct time. I have seen Marcus Gronholm smoke a cigar and having a beer, (this was on the Friday night of Rally Sweden when he was with Peugoet) and hadn't retired or super rallied - I think he won that year.
Also Elena is a regular smoker, didnt know about Loeb, Kimi smokes, Michael Schumacher (occasionally) a whole host of England footballers, (but that doesn't count for me as its not sport unless it has an engine)

it depends what you call smoking....an odd cigarette or 2 to relieve tension is ok i guess (although i don;t approve especially on a sport) but i wouldbe really surprised if Loeb or any other driver is a regular smoker....i wish i am not wrong this time.

[Loose_Unit]

maybe i should take it up, sounds like its the key to being fast!!

[Tomi]

I have seen Marcus Gronholm smoke a cigar and having a beer, (this was on the Friday night of Rally Sweden when he was with Peugoet) and hadn't retired or super rallied - I think he won that year.

I guess he was celebrating something, because in real he dont smoke, not so that it really matters what totally strange people does, long as they are not somehow dangerous to the society.

[Woodeye]

respect is earned...and to see a sportman deteriorate into a guy who is in top sport and doesn't care about his physical condition is disgsting. So as long as he doesn;t respect the sport he gets no respect either....if he wanted to be a fatboy he could do it out of the WRC field by staying home.

And he has to earn the respect from you? Don't make me laugh. No one else here uses words like "fatboy", "sickdog" etc.. but you, have you noticed that? Everyone else here respects the sport and the drivers into extend that they don't use idiotic names like that.

Show some respect for the sport that you are so worried about.

[MJW]

I guess he was celebrating something, because in real he dont smoke, not so that it really matters what totally strange people does, long as they are not somehow dangerous to the society.
Now that you mention it - it was during Rally Sweden, and its around that time Marcus celebrates his birthday, and it was a cigar not cigarette. I hope I didn't offend by suggesting Marcus was a regular smoker, (I have WAY TOO MUCH respect for that guy) and I have even heard him saying some anti smoking type comments. Still, on that night in 2002 he had a drink and a cigar......so what?

[bluuford]

Last time I was in France.. i thought that everybody in France are smoking :-)

[JFL]

I don't care what anybody does.. but then they have to stop to talk about world rally-people as top-athletes..

[Josti]

I don't care what anybody does.. but then they have to stop to talk about world rally-people as top-athletes..

I totally agree.

[belas]

I think that Loeb should be banned for the rest of the season because of that cigarette. The same should apply to every driver that is having a beer. What is wrong with some of you people ??? Rallying is supposed to be (or used to be) one of the few remaining sports where the whole atmosphere is less clinical or ''politically correct'' than most. Perhaps spectators should be allowed in superspecials only and all the people involved should be monitored all the time in order to avoid these things in the future. It seems that I am getting old...

[Josti]

I think that Loeb should be banned for the rest of the season because of that cigarette. The same should apply to every driver that is having a beer. What is wrong with some of you people ??? Rallying is supposed to be (or used to be) one of the few remaining sports where the whole atmosphere is less clinical or ''politically correct'' than most. Perhaps spectators should be allowed in superspecials only and all the people involved should be monitored all the time in order to avoid these things in the future. It seems that I am getting old...

Indeed, we should be happy that WRC ain't the glamour world F1 is these days.

[gloomyDAY]

Everyone here should watch Thank You for Smoking.

[Josti]

Everyone here should watch Thank You for Smoking.

Or Mad Men. :)

[Tomi]

.. but then they have to stop to talk about world rally-people as top-athletes..

Who are they?

[Mirek]

Everyone here should watch Thank You for Smoking.

That's great movie :D

[JFL]

Who are they?
media, themself.. ..

[Macd]

Juha Kankkunen smokes like chimney, guy is one of the best drivers of all time.

[N.O.T]

the drivers of the past were a different breed.....they wouldn't stand a chance against the drivers of today.

i understand why people want rally drivers to be incopetent (smoking, drinking, being fat... ects) because its easy to reflect into their incopetent life they do. but saying its nice to be that way its pathetic.

[Josti]

i understand why people want rally drivers to be incopetent (smoking, drinking, being fat... ects) because its easy to reflect into their incopetent life they do. but saying its nice to be that way its pathetic.

I don't want that necessarily, but it's just a choice of life, so don't bother that much. They are responsible adults you know.

I think strenght and anticipation is more important in rallying than fitness.

[N.O.T]

I don't want that necessarily, but it's just a choice of life, so don't bother that much. They are responsible adults you know.

I think strenght and anticipation is more important in rallying than fitness.

there is a misconseption about fitness and exercise, may people think exercise as going to the gym getting steroids and protein drinks and become a walking pitbull with ears..

Fitness and being an athlete in general requires mental strength, determination and sacrifices and all these help you to pass through difficult and challenging situations with much more ease..

Paasonen is a prime example of a talent going to waste because of his way of life....Atkinson on the other hand is a prime example of what mildly talented individual can achieve through hard work since Atkinson followed (don't know about now) one of the most demanding conditioning programes in the WRC.

Kimi has at least put 5-10 kgs since he came to the WRC......that shows that the flare and the determination is not there, for me it shows he has the WRC as alittle game to spend his time while unemployed, and he will not get any kind of respect.

Its not about being perfect and all....none can and none will. But to show to the world the proper way to do things its nice...

When it was the last time you saw an incompetend individual succeed in any kind of sport...and i see rallying as a sport not a rich boys gathering racing arounf the world.

[Woodeye]

I remember certain Carlos Sainz. He was an excellent driver - and never in perfect fit.

If a guys smokes a cigarette every now and then, that doesn't make him unfit.

[N.O.T]

and i remember salonen smoking and being overweight....the drivers of the old were used in a different kind of rallying...they were driving flat out 1-2 stages per day and the rest they were going just as fast to preserve the car.

When the events became more sprint like were you had to keep a very high pace throughout the day...those disappeared like the dinosaurs.

Please don't compare the old drivers to the new drivers. Things were very different back then. Rallys were much longer and hard. There was a lot of night driving with very little sleep for 4 or 5 days at a time. Cars were much less reliable and uncomfortable and much harder to drive.

Saying that todays drivers would beat easily the drivers of the old days, rrelatively speaking, is nonsense and is obviously a comment of someone who has no idea what he is talking about.

lets put loeb in a 1800RS Escort versus hannu mikkola in 1979 RAC rally and see what happens.

[ShiftingGears]

Of course natural talent will always be a key part of the greatest rally drivers which is why Loeb would be fast in any era.

As far as motorsport goes, being unfit/fat and smoking does you no favours.

[Leon]

I thought this is rally japan 2010 thread

[Woodeye]

Of course if you smoke like a chimney and drink like Jeltsin, that might effect your driving also a bit. But none of the drivers for sure do that.

But then on the other hand, if you run a marathon under 2 hours, do 100 metres running under 9 seconds, lift 300 kg from the bench and have a black belt in 15 different marshall arts, does that give you wings on the road? No.

[N.O.T]

Of course if you smoke like a chimney and drink like Jeltsin, that might effect your driving also a bit. But none of the drivers for sure do that.

But then on the other hand, if you run a marathon under 2 hours, do 100 metres running under 9 seconds, lift 300 kg from the bench and have a black belt in 15 different marshall arts, does that give you wings on the road? No.

my point also... you need to combine both to be at the top. One without the other will get you nowhere

[Rallyper]

Without some exceptions, I would say golfers are sportsmen without any demands of fitness... But having said that it´s hard reaching the top today without any kind of fitness program.

I think most of the top drivers today, have it in one way or another.

N.O.T: The rallies back in the old days where in an other space than todays sprints.
For example 1000 Lakes in Finland back in 1983 where 52 stages, driven from early morning until late in the evening for at least four days, maybe five. So please, don´t compare if you don´t have the full picture, man!

[6789]

Any pics from the Rally? Wold be some great shots with the ruts and loose surface?

[noel157]

Without some exceptions, I would say golfers are sportsmen without any demands of fitness... But having said that it´s hard reaching the top today without any kind of fitness program.

I think most of the top drivers today, have it in one way or another.

N.O.T: The rallies back in the old days where in an other space than todays sprints.
For example 1000 Lakes in Finland back in 1983 where 52 stages, driven from early morning until late in the evening for at least four days, maybe five. So please, don´t compare if you don´t have the full picture, man!

Think you'll find that most (the younger ones) professional golfers are some of the most fit athletes around.

[Mintexmemory]

lets put loeb in a 1800RS Escort versus hannu mikkola in 1979 RAC rally and see what happens.

+1

I think the only way Tony Pond could get through rallies back then was due to the fact that he couldn't drink, chain smoke etc while driving so he felt much better than usual!! :) I'm sure he knew all about sleep deprivation too ;)

[N.O.T]

Please don't compare the old drivers to the new drivers. Things were very different back then. Rallys were much longer and hard. There was a lot of night driving with very little sleep for 4 or 5 days at a time. Cars were much less reliable and uncomfortable and much harder to drive.

Saying that todays drivers would beat easily the drivers of the old days, rrelatively speaking, is nonsense and is obviously a comment of someone who has no idea what he is talking about.

lets put loeb in a 1800RS Escort versus hannu mikkola in 1979 RAC rally and see what happens.

it would be an ugly spectacle to ridicule mikkola like that....the drivers of today are a different breed...

i prefer to be romantic when it comes to girls and sheep...being romantic with rallying doesn't lead anywhere...

The drivers of the 70s and 80s have nothing to show over the current ones.

[JFL]

the wrc-cars of 2010 drive themselves compared to older cars...you can just go back to Gr.A... I've tried...
thats why youngsters do so great in a WRC car.. they have no limits... they are not scared of the limit...
I dont say that todays top drivers are better or worse..

[Karukera]

Many former champions coming back in a modern rally car for a one shot (Vatanen, Auriol... to recently Kankkunen) would say the engine is nothing special but the handling has improved a lot with the in car comfort.

Today you can drive flat out over any special stage with a wrc car. no need to take care of your car because it is so strong.
You can do the complete rally with one set of shock absorbers, just clean them in the evening service. Unless you hit something big, you can just put the pedal down and worry about your lines. That is why, first of all, young drivers are able to get top results early in their career.

With driving skill, good notes, memory and a good car the result will be there soon. in the old days this was not enough, you needed real brains and a LOT of experience to take your car to the limit but not overdo it !

Today it seems that between the top drivers the difference will be made by the guy who has the most confidence in his car.