Mini set to announce wrc entry

[Francis44]

The test is rumoured to take place in Arganil.

[TheFlyingTuga]

Francis44, the test could also be held in Fafe, cause they could use the roads from Rally Portugal in the 90's but also the good asphalt roads where the Rally Serras de Fafe (National Open Rally Championship) is made!

Keep post info, I really want to see this test :P

[bt52b]

None of the drivers or Prodrive, the British team which is running MINI’s return to the WRC, would comment on the driver line-up, but Meeke and Andersson are both reckoned to have signed their contracts for 2011.
http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/meeke_and_andersson_tipped_for_mini/

[Luis Pacheco]

Azores are a nice place to test...

[trinamixx]

Portugal is a nice "place" to test :)

[Sulland]

Here are some more details:
http://www.motoringfile.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Mini-rally-car-sales-package.pdf

So the new Category (R4) could be called Super Production if this is not just a temporary name from Prodrive.
346 000 £ is a stiff starting price !

[ProRally]

Here are some more details:
http://www.motoringfile.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Mini-rally-car-sales-package.pdf

So the new Category (R4) could be called Super Production if this is not just a temporary name from Prodrive.
346 000 £ is a stiff starting price !

No that would be the S2000 version of the Mini WITHOUT the WRC kit.... but still with 1.6T engine

[bt52b]

Here are some more details:

So the new Category (R4) could be called Super Production if this is not just a temporary name from Prodrive.
346 000 £ is a stiff starting price !

Morrie Chandler talked about Super Production at least a year ago. He said Super Production would incorporate S2000 and N4. There's a thread about it somewhere. I think the idea is that it sounds sounds better and is easier to explain than S2000 and N4.

[Sulland]

No that would be the S2000 version of the Mini WITHOUT the WRC kit.... but still with 1.6T engine

And that is not the new category that has been talked about here as R4 ?

So are we getting more than one new class ?

[ProRally]

No the 'base' Mini is in the S2000 category.

R4 is in line with R1/R2/R3 basically a N4 but with less weight, bit more freedom in parts (like seq gearbox).

During many of the WRC events this year when they weigh the cars just before the remote refuels very rarely a N4 goes BELOW 1500kg this is way to much.

Nobody can get close to the homologation weight, but in R4 you can use composite rear doors, bonnet and boot lid, also wiring loom made to order etc.

Lets wait a few more days ....

[Sulland]

So will R4 still be with 2,0T engine, or will it adopt the 1,6T as well ?

[giangino]

http://alojamentos19.com/~ralis/miniestudo10.jpg

http://www.ralis.online.pt/

[ProRally]

So will R4 still be with 2,0T engine, or will it adopt the 1,6T as well ?

It should stay with 2.0T but with 34mm restrictor and different conrods and pistons.

[traxx]

First test of the mini and first pix !
http://wrc.is.free.fr/posts/2010/09/09/1239-premiere-image-de-la-mini-wrc

[hari]

First test of the mini and first pix !
http://wrc.is.free.fr/posts/2010/09/09/1239-premiere-image-de-la-mini-wrc

It looks strange...

[Francis44]

The test in Portugal is expected next week, they are trying to do it quietly.
ACP, who usually organises tests here, said it had no contact by Prodrive.
Probably ACP was asked not to say a word or Prodrive are organising the test by themselves, either way Im sure they dont want reporters and photographers there.

[Barreis]

Looks like ****..

[noel157]

Interesting mock-up............by a rally fan:

[AndyRAC]

Isn't there a 3-door version? Don't like 5-door hatch backs.....

But, we should wish them well.....another Manufacturer - good news!!

[bt52b]

Looks like ****..

Hope it sounds better than it looks?

[N.O.T]

yeah it doesn't look good indeed...but we have to wait and see the final version of it... the vodafone livery is fantastic though.

I really hope its competitive, no matter the looks.

[Barreis]

Hope it sounds better than it looks?

I agree..

[6789]

Are these 1.6ltrs going to be high reving? That's what makes the S2000 so interesting, you can hear them coming and going for miles!

[I am evil Homer]

Who knows...given what the C4 is like you'd expect the DS3 to be fairly high revving.

[Allar]

I think it looks good. atleast better then DS3.

[koko0703]

Appearance is not what it's all about but..... not my preferance. Well at least, it is finally running now so I guess it's good.

[Woodeye]

Who gives a crap what it looks like. Hopefully it's fast, that's the only thing that matters.

[Tomi]

Who gives a crap what it looks like. Hopefully it's fast, that's the only thing that matters.

have you not learned by now, that the most important things is the sound and the livery ;)

[Motorsportfun]

that's the hi-res image from prodrive website

http://www.prodrive.com/up/_DH32716_2.jpg

[Woodeye]

have you not learned by now, that the most important things is the sound and the livery ;)

Oh, forgot about the livery. It needs to be cool and have flames and lightning and horses in it.

[VFTS]

Right hand drive....

[serial jeff]

I think that's just a test mule livery... they often cover the cars with weird swirls and checks and stuff to make it impossible to properly tell what the car looks like, until they've produced the final body parts. Those aero parts are likely just temporary.

[JFL]

The test MINI, sporting yellow camouflaged paintwork, is fitted with an interim body and aero package, while design of the final World Rally Car bodywork is underway.

[bt52b]

The test MINI, sporting yellow camouflaged paintwork, is fitted with an interim body and aero package, while design of the final World Rally Car bodywork is underway.

The bodywork looks pretty standard apart from the rear wing.

[pantealex]

Right hand drive....
look at the seats, left one has "ears", so it is left hand drive I think...

[Red bull]

i dont mind the sound shape and liverly as long as we have a new manufucturer apart from the winning citroen and the loosing ford :D :D :D

[Francis44]

Well Prodrive should be testing next week in Ponte de Lima and São Lourenço, north region of Portugal.

And they will probably test for 3 days.

[Sulland]

http://translate.google.no/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=no&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.norsk-rally.com%2Findex.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26vie w%3Darticle%26id%3D7186%3Apressemelding-fra-mads-ostberg

[JFL]

http://translate.google.no/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=no&tl=en&u=http://www.norsk-rally.com/index.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26view%3Darticle% 26id%3D7186 :p ressemelding-fra-mads-ostberg
Mads Østberg behind the wheel...

[ste898]

I dont think any maojor bodywork changes or livery will improve what looks like the most hideously ugly rally car ever to rally!!!!!!!!!

[I am evil Homer]

No I think the BX4TC still wins that accolade!

[rp]

No I think the BX4TC still wins that accolade!

Yes, the BX4 TC is the first...

[tmx]

PG is excluded from SWRC for not attending Japan, but he gets to keep the points. Is this because he don't have the budget to compete Japan or he already contracted Mini?

[alleskids]

I though PG already sceduled to miss Japan and do France and Wales. But then he misses 1 ouside Europe event, and SWRC drivers have to do 2 outside Europe. PG did Jordan, and missed Mexico and New Zealand.

[ProRally]

PG is excluded from SWRC for not attending Japan, but he gets to keep the points. Is this because he don't have the budget to compete Japan or he already contracted Mini?

I think RUFA Sport as entry is excluded, not PG himself.

[noel157]

I think RUFA Sport as entry is excluded, not PG himself.

Yes, I think that is correct.

[Viking]

I think RUFA Sport as entry is excluded, not PG himself.

Seems like PG has lost all points but Rally Sweden (wild card).

http://www.wrc.com/swrc/results/

[noel157]

Seems like PG has lost all points but Rally Sweden (wild card).

http://www.wrc.com/swrc/results/

I expect he doesn't really care that much assuming he has a future in Banbury or Cockermouth.

[OldF]

http://translate.google.no/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=no&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.norsk-rally.com%2Findex.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26vie w%3Darticle%26id%3D7186%3Apressemelding-fra-mads-ostberg

http://www.prodrive.com/p_releases.html?id=281

This initial part of the car’s test and development programme took place with the engineering team driving the car……

Was Mads part of the engineering team?

[driveace]

I thought that Terry Kaby was doing some work for Prodrive so maybe he will have done some work on this project!

[Francis44]

Mini is testing right now in Portugal with Markko Martin.

Small video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T_fXEzlTdo .

[Mirek]

Great sound :)

[Hartusvuori]

]Great sound :)

I second that. Perhaps it have a lot to do with the place where it was filmed, and the raw equipment, but the echoing forest before the car appears I something I love. This is not a direct comparison, but somehow it reminds me of the early 90s Group A with Celicas raging through the stages. At least the echo :-)

[cali]

I second that. Perhaps it have a lot to do with the place where it was filmed, and the raw equipment, but the echoing forest before the car appears I something I love. This is not a direct comparison, but somehow it reminds me of the early 90s Group A with Celicas raging through the stages. At least the echo :-)

Got exactly the same feeling. What a nice sound!

[wwbroe]

Really nice sound indeed, hope they will keep it like that. ;)

[Iskald]

http://www.prodrive.com/p_releases.html?id=281

This initial part of the car’s test and development programme took place with the engineering team driving the car……

Was Mads part of the engineering team?

Don`t know exactly abot that, but Mads was the first "proper" rally driver to sit in the car. He undertook driving duties during the "official" shakedown last week. Not much to say about that, as Mads wasn`t willing to reveal a lot when I spoke to him on sunday. He made it strongly clear, however, that the car he drove was in a very early development stage. Engine programme development had been hampered by a computer virus (!), Mads said. So the 1,6T engine felt strong on low and max revs. In the middle it was nearly nothing, he told me. But this will of course be sorted out. Mads also told that there was a lot of Prodrive and BMW/Mini persons present, and they were very eager to learn of his initial impressions of the car.

[MartijnS]

Sounds great!

[RICARDO75]

http://alojamentos19.com/~ralis/miniwrc10.jpg

[RICARDO75]

http://alojamentos19.com/~ralis/miniwrc201.jpg

[euskalteam]

It's really ugly!! but sounds great!

[JFL]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T_fXEzlTdo

[Allyc85]

Nice and raspy engine note, I like :)

[wwbroe]

They don't seem to wear any helmets? :(

[Allar]

It's really ugly!! but sounds great!
It's really pretty!! and sounds great.

[Josti]

It's just a first version and please let the livery not fool you. Having said that, the Countryman ain't the best looking car IMO, so I don't expect the WRC version to be either.

Sound is pretty unique indeed, hope to see a bit more footage in the next few days though.

[J.Lindstroem]

Is that Markko Märtin driving?

[urabus-denoS2000]

Yes

[RICARDO75]

More photos from Bruno Fernandes
http://www.fotosralis.online.pt/miniwrcte10/

[Sulland]

It's really ugly!! but sounds great!

Not a beauty yet, but will wait to see it in final config before I slaughter or not ! :s mokin:

[N.O.T]

it doesn't look that bad.....the engine is the 1.6t or borrowed from another rallycar?

[Mirek]

Two more videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In9uQ30HnO8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERNRHtFLfvU

[Josti]

]Two more videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In9uQ30HnO8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERNRHtFLfvU

Thanks!

Not sure if this is far fetched, but sometimes the sound reminds of the MG Metro 6R4, not as sharp and loud, but still that's quite something.

[bt52b]

Sounds great.

Using Öhlins dampers
http://www.fotosralis.online.pt/miniwrcte10/

Öhlins actually announced on August 3rd
http://twitter.com/Ohlinsracing

[JRodrigues]

I was there, and the car sounded great!!!! What a sound! And it goes really well.. In the end, Markko was in co-driver's seat and someone else was driving. I don't know who it was, but his helmet had some pink things on it, and he was co-driving for Markko as well.

[noel157]

Best so far, 5 min video of the test:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3STajPxP7mc

[dimviii]

not antilag yet,and seems with not so much suspension travel.Sounds amazing though!

[jonas_mcrae]

Best so far, 5 min video of the test:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3STajPxP7mc

must say it looks more powerful than I thought it would be, and the sound, oh man I hope it stays like that. I also think the suspension might be too hard for the testing grounds but, this is the first tests and it looks great, well done for prodive and mini/bmw

hope it kicks some DS3 ass!

[grugsticles]

Oh.... My... God!!!

The sound, its fantastic!
In a way it combines the sounds of a current WRC car with that of a Group B Peugeot and a tinge of a wet fart. I love it!
The car does sound as though its struggling for air intake though. Mind you, it looks as though the testing roads are quite high in elevation.

I assume the sound is a result of using a lower capacity engine with the same inlet restrictor allowing the power band to be that little bit higher in the rev range than the current WRCars?

To be honest, the car itself doesnt even look that bad. Certainly better than I thought a wagon-ised mini with WRC kit would.

[6789]

Lets hope it goes like it sounds!!!

[J.Lindstroem]

To be honest, the car itself doesnt even look that bad. Certainly better than I thought a wagon-ised mini with WRC kit would.

Yeah, and it doesn't even have the Wrc kit on so i think it will look very good when the kit is finally designed!

[ARF]

I was there, and the car sounded great!!!! What a sound! And it goes really well.. In the end, Markko was in co-driver's seat and someone else was driving. I don't know who it was, but his helmet had some pink things on it, and he was co-driving for Markko as well.
Tänak.

[JAM]

Tänak.

Sure?

[Mintexmemory]

Tänak.

Ah that's who I thought it would be. Seems Marko is taking Ott everywhere he goes to gain experience not just of rallying but all the PR, testing and general hanging out that is part of being a successful rally driver.



From what I saw at Goodwood and in Rally Deutschland the guy is a quick learner.. customer car maybe?

[ARF]

http://www.fotosralis.online.pt/minitesbftarde10/ sure, he's on the last picture here. And the last part of the photos it's definately his helmet behind the wheel.

[cali]

Seeing the pictures now, I can almost definitely :p say that the other guy behind the wheel is Ott Tänak. Markko has co-driven Ott on few rallysprints as well - as far as i can see, it's all part of Ott's education programme.

[JAM]

http://www.fotosralis.online.pt/minitesbftarde10/ sure, he's on the last picture here. And the last part of the photos it's definately his helmet behind the wheel.

OK. I wasn't there, but a friend of mine told that it seems Tanak indeed, but other put some questions because de colour of the helmet. Yesterday i couldn't see the photos because a stupid mistake in my pc, but today already saw it.

Tanak, another name on the list?

[RICARDO75]

Another video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNxDPf3LbeU&feature=player_embedded

[Rallyper]

Another video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNxDPf3LbeU&feature=player_embedded

Good pics, but as true rallyfan it shouldn´t be music. The engine music is what we like to hear... ;)

[bluuford]

Busy week for Tänak. He takes part in Estonian Championship event Viljandi ralli in Estonia that starts on Friday :-) This time he drives older version Subaru (N12) That belongs to Georg Gross), because he rented his own car to his teammate Egon Kaur;-)

[koko0703]

It's always exciting to see a new car start testing. Its appearance is not my favorite but it does sounds really good.

[pantealex]

Busy week for Tänak. He takes part in Estonian Championship event Viljandi ralli in Estonia that starts on Friday :-) This time he drives older version Subaru (N12) That belongs to Georg Gross), because he rented his own car to his teammate Egon Kaur;-)
and next week He will drive Fiesta S2000 in Finish Championship in Hyvinkää

[dimviii]

Good pics, but as true rallyfan it shouldn´t be music. The engine music is what we like to hear... ;)

i really can t understant which is the reason to have music in a video such this?
ie never saw a football video with music.

[Allar]

and next week He will drive Fiesta S2000 in Finish Championship in Hyvinkää
and then EVO X in france and then S2000 in Saaremaa. No Rest for Ott!

[noel157]

and then EVO X in france and then S2000 in Saaremaa. No Rest for Ott!

I think it's great that he can get so much experience in different cars and on different event. Hope he does well. Sign of a good driver who can go from car to car and perform well.

[Hartusvuori]

and next week He will drive Fiesta S2000 in Finish Championship in Hyvinkää

Is that Marko Kakko's Fiesta? Kakko is entered with Impreza it seems. If so, it's a car proofed fast: first S2000 ever to win an event in Finland.

[cali]

Is that Marko Kakko's Fiesta? Kakko is entered with Impreza it seems. If so, it's a car proofed fast: first S2000 ever to win an event in Finland.

Yes, it's Kakko's Fiesta.

[Tomi]

[quote="Francis44"]Mini is testing right now in Portugal with Markko Martin.

Grönholm is supposed to drive on friday, maybe already on thursday.

[oreixa]

Another video of the second day testing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX_PI66BDMg

[noel157]

Another video of the second day testing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX_PI66BDMg

Were you there today? Or anybody else? Any other drivers appear?

[JRodrigues]

Sorry noel I didn't reply to your PM. Yes, I was there today and it was Meeke testing... Aaaaaaaaaaaand.... Marcus was there!!!! :D

[dimviii]

Sorry noel I didn't reply to your PM. Yes, I was there today and it was Meeke testing... Aaaaaaaaaaaand.... Marcus was there!!!! :D

tell us mooooooree!! :D

[Doon]

sounds great.....but isn't it the same engine as the DS3?

[JRodrigues]

tell us mooooooree!! :D

The car did less km's than on tuesday.. It looked like they had overheating problems. Meeke didn't seem to push as hard as Markko as well.. Marcus seemed to enjoy riding with Meeke even though it was just for a while.

[noel157]

Sorry noel I didn't reply to your PM. Yes, I was there today and it was Meeke testing... Aaaaaaaaaaaand.... Marcus was there!!!! :D


No worries, I thought Meeke would be there, obviously Peugeot have given him permission to start testing which is good for everybody. Look forward to the videos of him and Marcus.

[JRodrigues]

Don't have videos, but I'm sure they'll come up. There were a dozen of people there and some of them were filming...

[JRodrigues]

AH! And the WRC TV crew was also there.. So stay tuned for something in the website or on TV

[turves]

not sure if these have been posted already (can't be bothered looking im afraid).

http://www.rallybuzz.com/mini-wrc-videos-2/

[Mirek]

With bang...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k1Ay6ZuHAI

[JRodrigues]

]With bang...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k1Ay6ZuHAI

Lots of bangs!!! :cool: Today the test was next to the firing facility of the national police and I was in doubt if it was the car's noise or from the weapons :D

[noel157]

Hey, maybe it's only Meeke that gets the car to pop...car looks faster here too but that may only be camera angles.
David Lapworth is there too, all suited up:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NH54D2mthA

[JRodrigues]

Maybe some different engine mapping. Yes, yesterday it was David Lapworth on the co-driver's seat, but also doing some installation laps when the car had some problems.

[Sulland]

Photoshop is an impressive tool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkhIcaqXpW4&feature=related

[bennizw]

Is it only me, or does that car have paddle shift? I thought that was banned for next year?

[manta400]

Was Paul Nagle there?

[noel157]

Was Paul Nagle there?

Don't think so, it was more just a introductory drive, so to speak.
I'm assuming Nagle is part of the package next year, they seemed to work well together over the past few years.

Gromholm and Meeke will share the car today.

[RICARDO75]

Day 3 with Kris Meeke
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NH54D2mthA&feature=player_embedded

Very professional approach from PRODRIVE to put MARTIN, MEEKE and BOSSE in the car right from the start. These guys will definitely help MINI step in the right direction towards bringing the challenge to CITROEN. I am looking forward to the next couple years and the upcoming competition between the two brands.

[Viridian Black]

i hear anti-lag this time :)

[JFL]

Is it only me, or does that car have paddle shift? I thought that was banned for next year?
I was wondering the same...

[dimviii]

i hear anti-lag this time :)
not yet

[noel157]

Yes, no anti lag, car is really only running at 50%.
I wonder if PG will get a seat or will Marcus do from Sardinia onwards?
Hopefully hear soon.

[jbmarcus21]

what is anti-lag?

[Mirek]

System for reducing turbo lag by keeping a pressure in exhaust manifold even when driver doesn't push the throttle.

[fastboy]

Yes, no anti lag, car is really only running at 50%.
I wonder if PG will get a seat or will Marcus do from Sardinia onwards?
Hopefully hear soon.

I think PG is closing in on a deal with Ford for next year.

[alleskids]

Maybe a silly question, just wondering, Meeke is preparing for his entry with the team, but what's in it for Markko Martin and Marcus Gronholm doing the test with the Mini? Pure for fun of getting away from house, driving a rally car, or will Martin for example make a WRC comeback, or is he networtling for his protege?

[noel157]

Maybe a silly question, just wondering, Meeke is preparing for his entry with the team, but what's in it for Markko Martin and Marcus Gronholm doing the test with the Mini? Pure for fun of getting away from house, driving a rally car, or will Martin for example make a WRC comeback, or is he networtling for his protege?

Suppose it depends on who you listen too and what you read.
I think Martin is simply a test driver and part of the deal was to bring young Tanak along just to see how things work. I don't think we'll see Martin back again in the WRC.
As for Bosse, some say he is seeing how good the Mini is or could be before signing. Others have said he has signed and will help develop the car with Meeke and compete from Sardinia onwards.
Then there's the possibility of a 3rd driver, PG? all a mystery at present.
Maybe an announcement at Rallye de France or the Paris Salon in October.

[alleskids]

The Mini want be seen in WRC before the Sardinia Rally, and the Prodrive wil do only a limited rounds in 2011? When will the Countryman WRCar become available for privateers?

[Tomi]

Maybe a silly question, just wondering, Meeke is preparing for his entry with the team, but what's in it for Markko Martin and Marcus Gronholm doing the test with the Mini? Pure for fun of getting away from house, driving a rally car, or will Martin for example make a WRC comeback, or is he networtling for his protege?

Teams often like to use experienced drivers when develope the cars, no point to use drivers who has no clue how a good car is supposed to be, maybe thats why Markko and Bosse is there.

[JRodrigues]

Teams often like to use experienced drivers when develope the cars, no point to use drivers who has no clue how a good car is supposed to be, maybe thats why Markko and Bosse is there.

After seeing how the S14 was, I don't understand why they called Martin again..

[bt52b]

After seeing how the S14 was, I don't understand why they called Martin again..

And the rear suspension on the N14 is crap

[MJW]

The base car from Subaru (14) was / is "difficult" especially on the rear end.

[alleskids]

I understand the need for experienced drivers to devellop a new car, but what is in it for the testdriver(s)? Normallly a testdriver wants to race with the car he devellops. So my point was: what has Mini/Prodrive to offer to Marcus Gronholm and Markko Martin to come out of their "retirement"? Gronholm could have a contract for 2011, with not too many rallies so he can be home for quality time. But what has Markko on the agenda to do the testjob? Just for the fun of driving and develloping a new car or a drive for his protege in a (privateer) team for a reduced price?

[Barreis]

This two guys used to be paid with six zeros and now it's different situation but for good offer don't think they could refuse it..

[Tomi]

After seeing how the S14 was, I don't understand why they called Martin again..

Really, what do you know about that what Prodrive dont know?

[Tomi]

I understand the need for experienced drivers to devellop a new car, but what is in it for the testdriver(s)? Normallly a testdriver wants to race with the car he devellops. So my point was: what has Mini/Prodrive to offer to Marcus Gronholm and Markko Martin to come out of their "retirement"? Gronholm could have a contract for 2011, with not too many rallies so he can be home for quality time. But what has Markko on the agenda to do the testjob? Just for the fun of driving and develloping a new car or a drive for his protege in a (privateer) team for a reduced price?

Maybe the challenge and cash, both are professionals so I dont think they do it just for fun.

[RICARDO75]

Day 4 with Marcus Gronholm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF_75w6CL_k&feature=player_embedded#!

[bt52b]

Day 4 with Marcus Gronholm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF_75w6CL_k&feature=player_embedded#!

Thanks everyone for the videos and photos of the tests.

Looks like its going a little bit faster.

[Barreis]

This time they will listen what drivers have to say, I guess.. They don't want to repeat the fate of subaru from 2006..

[J.Lindstroem]

It looks really good with Grönholm driving it! Cant wait for 2011 now!

[Sulland]

Smart of them to use a lot of drivers to get as many driving styles and aspects of the car to the surface.

Gronholm looked like he had a bad back walking to the car.

[Red bull]

I think PG is closing in on a deal with Ford for next year.
to be honest i dont see anything special about PG and meek,their perfomances didnt impress me since the start of the season only retirements and excusses :dozey:

[noel157]

to be honest i dont see anything special about PG and meek,their perfomances didnt impress me since the start of the season only retirements and excusses :dozey:

So who did impress you? If you were DR or Pappa Wilson.

[Red bull]

jari ketoma and sandell

[Mirek]

to be honest i dont see anything special about PG and meek,their perfomances didnt impress me since the start of the season only retirements and excusses :dozey:

Don't You think that it's not very likely that Meeke lost his last year's performance suddenly? The reason for his bad results is just that Skoda works more efficiently. Anyway two retirements were technical failures, two crashes but in both cases he was given orders by Quesnel to try to defeat Skoda for any cost. It's no wonder it led to accidents. His problem is not his speed but Peugeot philosophy where engineers have the main word in setting car and driver has to obey. Another problem is that Peugeot fired other good drivers (Vouilloz and Loix) who were supporting Meeke last year. At all respect Magalhaes and Neuville are not experienced enough to substitute them. Moreover those fired guys turned to Skoda and helped it to defeat Peugeot and Meeke. It's a fight which Meeke could win only in extremely lucky circumstances. And we could see that miracle hasn't come.


jari ketoma and sandell

Ketomaa is great on gravel but has no experience on tarmac at all and for car development that's VERY important skill. Sandell? Sorry, but what did he prove? He drove superior car in PWRC for two years and didn't achieve anything remarkable. Now he has the best Skoda in SWRC and besides quite surprising performance in Deutchland there is again nothing remarkable.

[Barreis]

Petter Solberg.

[JRodrigues]

I couldn't go yesterday, so I didn't see Marcus driving!! :mad: :mad: Mas he sure looked much, much faster than Meeke..


Smart of them to use a lot of drivers to get as many driving styles and aspects of the car to the surface.

Gronholm looked like he had a bad back walking to the car.

I heard him talking about a small injury.. guess it is that.

[Mirek]

I couldn't go yesterday, so I didn't see Marcus driving!! :mad: :mad: Mas he sure looked much, much faster than Meeke..


On Thursday there were technical problems and anyway it's development testing, it's not a race.

[noel157]

I couldn't go yesterday, so I didn't see Marcus driving!! :mad: :mad: Mas he sure looked much, much faster than Meeke..



I heard him talking about a small injury.. guess it is that.

Hi JR, as Mirek said, car was basically in safety mode, maybe only 50-60% performance and there were minor technical issues with the dust etc and suspension. No different from you going to your local Mini dealer and getting a test drive (without the sales guy shouting at you to slowdown) :)

I think once the project gets going with more development, testing and the correct components we can then see what the situation is.

[noel157]

Petter Solberg.

I believe Petter was never considered for the drive.

[Brother John]

]Don't You think that it's not very likely that Meeke lost his last year's performance suddenly? The reason for his bad results is just that Skoda works more efficiently. Anyway two retirements were technical failures, two crashes but in both cases he was given orders by Quesnel to try to defeat Skoda for any cost. It's no wonder it led to accidents. His problem is not his speed but Peugeot philosophy where engineers have the main word in setting car and driver has to obey. Another problem is that Peugeot fired other good drivers (Vouilloz and Loix) who were supporting Meeke last year. At all respect Magalhaes and Neuville are not experienced enough to substitute them. Moreover those fired guys turned to Skoda and helped it to defeat Peugeot and Meeke. It's a fight which Meeke could win only in extremely lucky circumstances. And we could see that miracle hasn't come.

It will remain always this way with French teams, how they treat foreign people and drivers! Look at Citroën (Duval,Sordo.) And how with the future from Petter Solberg?), Peugeot in the past (Loix, Grönholm)!
Look in the history.
The worst that you can do is to drive or work at a French team. :rolleyes:

[ste898]

]Don't You think that it's not very likely that Meeke lost his last year's performance suddenly? The reason for his bad results is just that Skoda works more efficiently. Anyway two retirements were technical failures, two crashes but in both cases he was given orders by Quesnel to try to defeat Skoda for any cost. It's no wonder it led to accidents. His problem is not his speed but Peugeot philosophy where engineers have the main word in setting car and driver has to obey. Another problem is that Peugeot fired other good drivers (Vouilloz and Loix) who were supporting Meeke last year. At all respect Magalhaes and Neuville are not experienced enough to substitute them. Moreover those fired guys turned to Skoda and helped it to defeat Peugeot and Meeke. It's a fight which Meeke could win only in extremely lucky circumstances. And we could see that miracle hasn't come.



Ketomaa is great on gravel but has no experience on tarmac at all and for car development that's VERY important skill. Sandell? Sorry, but what did he prove? He drove superior car in PWRC for two years and didn't achieve anything remarkable. Now he has the best Skoda in SWRC and besides quite surprising performance in Deutchland there is again nothing remarkable.


That is exactly correct, what a well written post......

[Tomi]

It will remain always this way with French teams, how they treat foreign people and drivers! Look at Citroën (Duval,Sordo.) And how with the future from Petter Solberg?), Peugeot in the past (Loix, Grönholm)!
Look in the history.
The worst that you can do is to drive or work at a French team. :rolleyes:

Lol, you are joking? Why would it be worst, also can you explaine why should they be in somekind of responisibility of petters future?

[Barreis]

I believe Petter was never considered for the drive.

They're doing with their JWRC champs.. Except with Prokop..

[Tomi]

Its easy to speculate, but next year we will see who is faster, if Meeke dont need many events to learn the car.

[bt52b]

Petter Solberg.

He needs VW. Ford should have signed him when he left Subaru, huge blunder not too and they still need someone like him for next year.

[Barreis]

I agree..

[noel157]

+1.

[Rallyper]

]Don't You think that it's not very likely that Meeke lost his last year's performance suddenly? The reason for his bad results is just that Skoda works more efficiently. Anyway two retirements were technical failures, two crashes but in both cases he was given orders by Quesnel to try to defeat Skoda for any cost. It's no wonder it led to accidents. His problem is not his speed but Peugeot philosophy where engineers have the main word in setting car and driver has to obey. Another problem is that Peugeot fired other good drivers (Vouilloz and Loix) who were supporting Meeke last year. At all respect Magalhaes and Neuville are not experienced enough to substitute them. Moreover those fired guys turned to Skoda and helped it to defeat Peugeot and Meeke. It's a fight which Meeke could win only in extremely lucky circumstances. And we could see that miracle hasn't come.



Ketomaa is great on gravel but has no experience on tarmac at all and for car development that's VERY important skill. Sandell? Sorry, but what did he prove? He drove superior car in PWRC for two years and didn't achieve anything remarkable. Now he has the best Skoda in SWRC and besides quite surprising performance in Deutchland there is again nothing remarkable.

Well, Mirec, I don´t think you count everything that´s on Sandell´s CV. Remember GB 2007, was it? Leading the S2000 when engine broke. He´s a professional in all the ways needed. And also a good driver, good enough for anything among the top WRC.

So -don´t count Sandell out. In my world he´s one of the best. PG is even better but never count out Sandell! :mad:

[Mirek]

Sorry, if it offended You. The talk was about suggesting Sandell as better choice than PG or Meeke and with all respect to Patrik I'm absolutely sure that he isn't better choice.

[Barreis]

Meeke is from GB so that's why he's in..

[Rallyper]

]Sorry, if it offended You. The talk was about suggesting Sandell as better choice than PG or Meeke and with all respect to Patrik I'm absolutely sure that he isn't better choice.

OK. Taken. But when not counting PG (and Meeke maybe) then you have Sandell... ;)

[Barreis]

Meeke is in 'cos DR wanted somebody with english accent..

[noel157]

Meeke is in 'cos DR wanted somebody with english accent..

Rubbish, Richards wanted the best man available for the seat and that's who he got. Oh, and Meeke is not English and therefore, surprisingly, he does not have an English accent.

[manta400]

I agree Kris Meeke has busted his balls for years and I have followed him. He won the IRC championship fair and square last year and deserves this chance.
Citreon and Oliver what ever his name is are messing him about, saying if he was french bla bla bla he would get a seat. He has developed the C4 and Ds3 its about time the guy from Gods country got a chance...Give him a break

[N.O.T]

Meeke is a good choice..he has a solid fan base, he drives fast everywhere and always goes flat out and crashes. Him and PG are a good choice froma fan perspective, from a team with high expectation i have my doubts.

The ideal, at least for next year, is that Gronholm, meeke and Pg alternate between events and whoever manages to beat Gronholm constantly gets the seat full time in 2012.

[J.Lindstroem]

Meeke is in 'cos DR wanted somebody with english accent..

Thank you for putting this into the light, Barries. Your posts are always very acurate and serious.

[manta400]

Accurate? how has Kris Meeke got and English accent? he is from Dunngannpon Co Tyrone, try looking up his website. he has a Northern Irish one big difference.

I also seem to remember another driver under DR who crashed quite a lot and he turned into a world Champion

[Barreis]

I don't have anything against Meeke.. My favorite driver was C.McRae and if Meeke was his potential then I'm happy.. But how much competetive km's does he have in WRC car? I remember Prodrive WRC in 2005 GB and after that?

[Hartusvuori]

Accurate?

= Sarcasm.

[RS]

I don't have anything against Meeke.. My favorite driver was C.McRae and if Meeke was his potential then I'm happy.. But how much competetive km's does he have in WRC car? I remember Prodrive WRC in 2005 GB and after that?

He has about the same competitive KM in a 1.6T "S2000" car as anyone else...

[RS]

OK. Taken. But when not counting PG (and Meeke maybe) then you have Sandell... ;)

Sandell surprised me in Finland and Germany but overall I would say he is behind Meeke, Hanninen, PG, Ketomaa and maybe some others. Do you know what his plans are for next year?

[Brother John]

Lol, you are joking? Why would it be worst, also can you explaine why should they be in somekind of responisibility of petters future?

No i´m not joking, I have enough experience with French companies and are not frightened to talk about that.
Concerning Petter I can say that Citroën lets stand him beside in spite of he performed well and paid much to drive with the C4.

[Camelopard]

No i´m not joking, I have enough experience with French companies and are not frightened to talk about that.
Concerning Petter I can say that Citroën lets stand him beside in spite of he performed well and paid much to drive with the C4.


Also just look at how they have treated Sordo, how many rallies has he been allowed to win?


Then another frenchman comes along and he can win 2 rallies in his first year...........



It reminds me of the saying "all are equal, but some are more equal than others..............."

[Barreis]

You must fight for yourself and it's a cruel world..

[RS]

No i´m not joking, I have enough experience with French companies and are not frightened to talk about that.
Concerning Petter I can say that Citroën lets stand him beside in spite of he performed well and paid much to drive with the C4.

It would be better if there were a manufacturer points scoring system like there is in IRC, then Citroen would be encouraged to support strong private drivers like Petter. Instead it looks like we are continuing with the pretend teams again next year.

[Sulland]

Why did they choose the Countryman over the normal Mini or Clubman ?
Has it to do with distance btw the axels ?

[noel157]

He has about the same competitive KM in a 1.6T "S2000" car as anyone else...

Good point. By all accounts Hirvonen and Latvala won't have driven one until next month. Loeb has had 3 days in the DS3T, Sordo maybe only 1 or 2 days, not sure about Ogier, remember when he was flirting with M-Sport wasn't apparently allowed to test and Meeke has had 2 or 3 days with the Citroen and 2 days with the Min Bin. For the purpose of Barreis's statement it's a lot of test days for all concerned especially Meeke but in reality it's all academic, there's 3 or 4 months until Sweden.

[Barreis]

It's good for Meeke that he has chance in first league (WRC) after winning second division (IRC).. Sordo beat him in JWRC but now he has another chance..

[OldF]

Why did they choose the Countryman over the normal Mini or Clubman ?
Has it to do with distance btw the axels ?

Maybe because it is 4WD and it’s bigger than the other models. I was wondering why it hasn’t wider fenders but in fact it’s a wide car, 1830 mm (if I remember right the max width is 1820 mm ???).

http://www.bmwblog.com/2009/08/22/rumor-mini-to-unveil-countryman-crossover-next-week/

[Tomi]

No i´m not joking, I have enough experience with French companies and are not frightened to talk about that.
Concerning Petter I can say that Citroën lets stand him beside in spite of he performed well and paid much to drive with the C4.

Yes, but why make it an nationality issue, Delecour and Auriol got the same stuff, from Peugeot, Dele got the boot in the middle of a dinner.
Petter like everyone else privateer gets what he pay for, nothing strange about that, professional motorsport is tough, if the driver is incapeble to look after his own interest nobody else will also not, thats how it is, nothing comes for free, club rally stuff is different.
In many ballsport if they win in lower leagues they play next year in higher league, but that has never been the case in motorsport, and will never be.

[Bobcat]

Also just look at how they have treated Sordo, how many rallies has he been allowed to win?


Then another frenchman comes along and he can win 2 rallies in his first year...........



It reminds me of the saying "all are equal, but some are more equal than others..............."
+1 (+100) ;)

[N.O.T]

Also just look at how they have treated Sordo, how many rallies has he been allowed to win?


Then another frenchman comes along and he can win 2 rallies in his first year...........



It reminds me of the saying "all are equal, but some are more equal than others..............."

how many rallies sordo was able to win ? i only count 1....

how many times Loebs championship was so easy ? and sordo had chance of winning within that year ?

and finally....citroen doesn't do anything different from any other professional team...

[Tomi]

and finally....citroen doesn't do anything different from any other professional team...

agree, and i think the French teams are most professional in WRC, Peugeot before and Citroen now.

[lancisti]

Maybe because it is 4WD and it’s bigger than the other models. I was wondering why it hasn’t wider fenders but in fact it’s a wide car, 1830 mm (if I remember right the max width is 1820 mm ???).

http://www.bmwblog.com/2009/08/22/rumor-mini-to-unveil-countryman-crossover-next-week/

Forgot this bmwblog data. the correct dimensions: 4.110 / 1.789 / 1.561 mm (Mini Countryman Cooper S ) lancisti

[Mirek]

Why did they choose the Countryman over the normal Mini or Clubman ?
Has it to do with distance btw the axels ?

Normal Mini is 3,69 meters long. Minimum length of S2000 car is 3,9 meters (don't know if it's same for new WRC but probably yes).

[Barreis]

I agree..

[noel157]

More detailed video from day 3 of the test:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6dBqsGSbeY

[jbmarcus21]

Marcus likes the Mini not ?

look mgr.fi .... hehehe .. is coming

[Barreis]

Marcus should be the best choice..

[Sulland]

]Normal Mini is 3,69 meters long. Minimum length of S2000 car is 3,9 meters (don't know if it's same for new WRC but probably yes).

Yes but the Clubman is LxWxH:
396 x 168 x 143 cm
Wheelbase: 255 cm

So that one could have been an option, compared to the Countryman that is:
410 x 179 x 155 cm
Wheelbase: 259,5 cm

The Clubman is 11 cm narrower, and it might be harder to reach the 182 cm with allowed, compared to the Countryman.

But I guess Prodrive know what they are doing ! :D

[Mirek]

That's no problem. Fabia is originally only 1642 mm wide. It's in fact better for smaller front area.

[JRodrigues]

Maybe because there's no tunnel for the transmission in the Clubman.

[jonas_mcrae]

marcus testing, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF_75w6CL_k&feature=related
fastest driver so far IMO

[RJM]

marcus testing, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF_75w6CL_k&feature=related
fastest driver so far IMO

meeke will be faster on a rally...

[Tomi]

meeke will be faster on a rally...

atleast he should be, if he cant beat an old driver who has not been driving seriously for years, he is not much of a driver. :)

[RJM]

Your 100% right, if meeke has a future in the wrc he needs to beat gronholm.

[OldF]

Maybe because there's no tunnel for the transmission in the Clubman.

That’s no problem. They can make modifications to the bodyshell that enables 4WD in the same manner as in WRC, S2000 and rallycross.

At the beginning of page 6.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/8C150505AAC84F05C1257690004AEBA2/$FILE/279%20(10-11).pdf (http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/8C150505AAC84F05C1257690004AEBA2/$FILE/279%20%2810-11%29.pdf)

[Sulland]

I guess none of the WRCars or S2000s, apart from the two GrN manufacturers, are based on a 4WD car - so I think that is not an issue.

But the old GrA cars all were, and we had a lot of nice roadcars as a result !!
Not a bad spinoff at all ! ;)

[navtheace]

So is the Super Production MINI for R4 regs?

Yes GpA (R categories now) is the best way forward, as manufacturer will make performance road cars as that is the only way to rally that model.

Now we have Ford and Citroen who dont know 4WD for road cars competing with 4WD for rallying. Disapprove.

[Mirek]

So is the Super Production MINI for R4 regs?

There are no existing R4 regs. WRC commission hasn't discuss them yet. There is only proposal, which is still long way from regulations.


Yes GpA (R categories now) is the best way forward, as manufacturer will make performance road cars as that is the only way to rally that model.

Regarding 4WD cars it's true only in nice dreams, not in current reality on car market. But of course I agree about 2WD cars where gr.R is definitely good choice.

[bt52b]

So is the Super Production MINI for R4 regs?



More like S2000 but with 1.6l turbo

[Voice of Rally]

Guys,

David Richards is our guest on totalrally tonight, live at 8pm UK time.
Get your questions in early to [email:1b12hnt0]studio@totalrally.com[/email:1b12hnt0]

[Hartusvuori]

According to Turun Sanomat, Grönholm says no to a WRC return:

Google translate (http://translate.google.fi/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fi&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ts.fi%2Ff1%2Fuutiset%2F166605.h tml)

[Rallyper]

OK, that opens for PG I think, even though I´ve been putting him in Ford Stobart next year for a long time now. Let´s wait and see... :)

[MR666]

Have not seen this posted here yet

Mini considers increased 2011 campaign (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87450)

[Sulland]

What do we know of the two other candidates considered by Prodrive before deciding on the Mini ?

What do we know of the two other candidates considered by Prodrive before deciding on the Mini ?

have been asking same question to myself. Apparently "theey were very interested". I have a hunch it was TOYOTA with AURIS and MAZDA with MAZDA 2.

:confused:

[jbmarcus21]

i have some doubt about no return rallying that Marcus............

[gravelman]

Watch this space, Marcus will be doing a limited programme adn testing next year ;) A little birdie in the know and I mean really in the know told a close friend of mine. This is not BS

[Barreis]

That's nice to read..

[DonJippo]

Watch this space, Marcus will be doing a limited programme adn testing next year ;) A little birdie in the know and I mean really in the know told a close friend of mine. This is not BS

That little bird should have told that to Marcus because two days ago he told to Finnish press that he won't come back to WRC...

[milly]

have been asking same question to myself. Apparently "theey were very interested". I have a hunch it was TOYOTA with AURIS and MAZDA with MAZDA 2.

:confused:

Toyota won't go near Prodrive and Mazda rejected Prodrive in January/February of this year.

[noel157]

That little bird should have told that to Marcus because two days ago he told to Finnish press that he won't come back to WRC...


Interesting.

[bt52b]

So will DR and Prodrive lose focus if AM & Merc = Prodrive F1?
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/10/17/mercedes-and-aston-martin/

[Macd]

Don't Ford own Mazda?

[Rally Hokkaido]

Don't Ford own Mazda?

Less and less, it seems
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/mail/nb20101017a1.html
Their peak shareholding of about 34% was back in 2008.

[noel157]

So will DR and Prodrive lose focus if AM & Merc = Prodrive F1?
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/10/17/mercedes-and-aston-martin/

Didn't DR say sometime that once he recruited a good management team to run the project he would retire into the background and work on other things? So maybe F1 is still unfinished business. As long as the people running the Mini team know what they are doing and have the resources hopefully all should be well. But i agree with your question, F1 is the holy grail for a company like Prodrive and it can cause problems.

[ARF]

Mini is testing this week near Sevilla.

[AndyRAC]

Didn't DR say sometime that once he recruited a good management team to run the project he would retire into the background and work on other things? So maybe F1 is still unfinished business. As long as the people running the Mini team know what they are doing and have the resources hopefully all should be well. But i agree with your question, F1 is the holy grail for a company like Prodrive and it can cause problems.

Yeah, and it's caused 'problems' before. In 1998 Subaru led both championships at the mid-season break. DR went to Benetton, and Subaru never won another event that year. Similarly when he was in charge of BAR-Honda, Subaru started their drop off in form. Coincidence...??? Maybe....

[Sulland]

Mini is testing this week near Sevilla.

Who are driving ?