Rally Jordan 2010

[Francis44]

Solberg does not wear number 4 I mean manufacturer entries. Just to bring them back on earth. Solberg wins, Ogier second, Wilson third.. etc.

Oh ok sorry I thought you meant 1-4 overall Rally Jordan finishers.

[Bobcat]

Well, they have done it in sensible way. I dont see nothing bad in slowing down for some seconds to get better position for next day.. and such a cat and mouse play.. but to play with time penalties.. it is completely unacceptable. Imagine, I have one reserve driver just for in case sitting in 8-9th place. When i need I put him 9 minutes before everybody on road and voilaa My team driver nr 1 is not first anymore.
I agree with you. To sum up, the Cheats Citroën...


Visibly upset by the problem, which occurred in the final 25-mile run through the Jordan River test, Ogier said: "We had a problem with the communication from the team. We didn't receive the last information until we had finished the stage. Okay, it's not the plan we wanted to do, but at least we're not first on the road. What can we do?
"We had a lot of split times coming to the car in the long stage and we were okay and driving on the same rhythm as Jari-Matti. But when I didn't receive his final split at the end, the plan from the team was to continue to push if I had no information. Then the target time came three seconds after the finish. We missed the last information, which was also the most important one."
Rally leader Sebastieb Loeb said: "It's not ideal, but what can we do?'"
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82628

[Lousada]

They should exclude everyone except our boy Kimi. He is the only one that plays it coool. And he happens to be Finnish and also drives a Citroen, so everybody on the forum will be happy.

[AndyRAC]

All that was unnecessary and comical. Loeb would win anyway without Ogier, so the only one to lose is Ogier himself. I was hoping for a very exciting 3 way fight between Latvala, Ogier and Petter. Too much tactics ruined that.

I also feel Jari could fight for the win if he was driving not with a 2nd driver mindset.

F1 Sepang qualifying was more interesting.


Mmm, and that is the problem. F1 = Motorsport, nothing else counts. And with todays farce, it will turn more people/media against the sport.
What are interested Manufacturers to think? Er, no thanks....

[tmx]

They should exclude everyone except our boy Kimi. He is the only one that plays it coool. And he happens to be Finnish and also drives a Citroen, so everybody on the forum will be happy. Should also be excluded for not manage to roll down his window.

[Lousada]

Mmm, and that is the problem. F1 = Motorsport, nothing else counts. And with todays farce, it will turn more people/media against the sport.
What are interested Manufacturers to think? Er, no thanks....

What would manufacturers say when they see MotorsTV coverage (if they could receive the channel)?? In 45 minutes you barely see the cars...

[bluuford]

Should also be excluded for not manage to roll down his window.

The problem is that he can roll the window down only by rolling the car and breaking the window. They cannot open their windows :-)

[RS]

Well this latest round of the WorldRoadsweepingChampionship will fit very nicely in the schedule of Dave tomorrow evening amongst all the other comedy programmes.

[Viking]

Should also be excluded for not manage to roll down his window.

Not an easy thing to do in a C4 ;)

[alleskids]

Has Petter Solbrtg WRT entered the Teams championship? On eWRC.cz he is entered in the Manufacturer standings

[sarally]

Flodin almost blew the Prdn win, or did he have a problem in the final stage?

[John V]

They should exclude everyone except our boy Kimi. He is the only one that plays it coool. And he happens to be Finnish and also drives a Citroen, so everybody on the forum will be happy.

Hey, first thing which make me smile with this rally today :) Lousada for president! :s mokin:

[Mirek]

What happened with Brynildsen? I don't see him in standings after stage 20? :confused: :(

He finished, only times are missing.

[Mirek]

Flodin almost blew the Prdn win, or did he have a problem in the final stage?

There are still 2 minutes left between him and Araujo in finish.

[bluuford]

Tuohino is missing?

Edit: He is there:-)

[sarally]

]There are still 2 minutes left between him and Araujo in finish.

MIsread sorry....figures are becoming blury....

[bluuford]

No, it was Ketomaa whos interview was at the end.. Tuohino is still missing..

[Langdale Forest]

Citroen team oders are a discrace! :mad:

[Mirek]

http://wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=407&season=2010&rally_id=HKJ

He's out :(

[John V]

No, it was Ketomaa whos interview was at the end.. Tuohino is still missing..
Yes, correct. I was just waiting for Tuohino and used save button in system, it was my fault.

[Mirek]

I think that in the end this event was all the time a well made piece of Monty Python's flying circus...

[dimviii]

Flodin almost blew the Prdn win, or did he have a problem in the final stage?

Broken suspension at 2 last ss.

Congrats to Loeb for beeing perfect all three days.
Lucky Pons with 2 wins in two rallys,but has to improve his speed.

[René]

Today the Jordan Rally 2010, showed us the limits of the established rules. As for the worldwide financial system, only the result counts and it doesn't much matter method. The financial system collapsed.... About the Rally when it is for????

[bluuford]

Yes, correct. I was just waiting for Tuohino and used save button in system, it was my fault.

No problems.. I was listening rally radio as well and didnt realise that it was ketomaa :-)

[muscrae]

So, very interesting championship standings, with JML 2nd and Mikko 3rd just ahead of Petter going on the Rally of Turkey in Istanbul :) (http://rallyofturkey.org/)

[bassist]

Well , I`m Stunned!! The WRC/ S2000/Rallying has more than it`s fair share of bad publicity. But surely this can only be seen as a massive `shoot yourself in the foot` exersise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even with a 6 time World Champion in the team, Citroen have to degrade themselves to this level to win (Quickly followed by Ford!) In my opinion Sebastian didnt need this help- he would have won hands down anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!! What the average `punter` thinks of all this, God Knows? I think it`s about time an example was made, and Citroen/Ford should be punished, and excluded from the overall results! This will penalise innocent drivers, but i think it is time now that sanctions are imposed! Petter would have won. and i think his emotion still shows that he drives a WRC car within the spirit of `Fair Play` !!!! :mad:

[pettersolberg29]

The main discussion should be where is the limit in regards to tactics? Personally I'm quite happy for the drivers to slow at the end of stages; even though it isn't preferbale it still seems 'fair'.
However getting intentional penalties is taking it way too far. Ogier losing 50s to move behind JML and Petter was a good move as it may have helped in road position, but it's still cheating in my view. For Ford to then break the guidelines massively by moving Mikko so far forward is a disgrace. Then for Citroen to ruin a truly fantastic performance by Ogier by making him drop 8 minutes even though Loeb would probably have won anyway is just completely out of order. Citroen should be fined for this, as should Ford, but the drivers shouldn't be penalised as its not their idea. These tactics have ruined an otherwise good rally.

[jens]

I liked the starting order system we had in the beginning of the century, which saw Top15 starting the new day in a reverse order. Why on earth was that changed and why not change it back now? Losing 8 minutes is ridiculous - I feel sorry for Ogier, he could have been 2nd in the overall standings after today.

[ste898]

Yet another boring WRC parade is finished............

Roll on 2011 when we hopefully will have some competition!!!!!

[ridder]

Agree with #527.

Besides tactics, my view of the event:

Loeb - great drive, deserved to win
Latvala - about same pace as Solberg on day 1 and 3, good drive
Solberg - same pace as Latvala for 2 days, same pace as Loeb in 4 out of 6 stages on day 2. Clearly faster than Sordo and Ogier. Most probably lost second place due to his problems on that one stage.
All in all this rally showed that Mexico wasn't just road position and luck, I'm sure he'll try to analyze the bad stage to get to the heart of the issue.
Sordo - another rather disappointing drive, ok on day 1, not good on days 2 and 3. In a way the worst of the 4 Citroens
Ogier - very good drive, should have ended 4th.
Hirvonen - again rather disappointing, glimpse of speed in one stage on friday, then crash.

[Rallyper]

Well, I think that Wilson has played with the tactics mostly in sensible way. Slowing town on the last stage and playing with the position is quite interesting quite often.. but those decisions that gave Loeb a Title (last year in Poland) forcing satellite team drivers to stop for nearly half hour and now playing with time penalties when failing to play the game that most of tactics fans consider as interesting.. well. He ruined the few interesting parts that FIA had left. Sorry, no respect to Quensel anymore. This time Wilson just did what he had to do. Quensel did the first bad move and Wilson didn't had a choice. Hopefully PSA will not get any titles this year.

Mr Quesnel is ruining the sport. The regulations should imeadeatly be changed. Why not let PWRC (or SWRC or JWRC) start before WRC in opposite order1-10 so then we´ll have clean roads for the main class. Fixed!

Else there would be big punishment for apearently tactic last two days. :mad:

[Francis44]

Mr Quesnel is ruining the sport. The regulations should imeadeatly be changed. Why not let PWRC (or SWRC or JWRC) start before WRC in opposite order1-10 so then we´ll have clean roads for the main class. Fixed!

Else there would be big punishment for apearently tactic last two days. :mad:

There is no need for S-WRC to be first on the road, just run WRC on reverse order like they did some years ago.

This solution has been adressed by more than one user, and few suport it. Wonder why.

[Rallyper]

Yes, ford have done it before but not like that. They have done it before the end of rally to switch positions. As I mentioned, I like that cat and mouse slowing game before the end of day.. bust to do such nasty thing like Quensel did today and Malcolm followed, I can see only one way, exclude cars nr 1-4 from the standings and drivers as well.

And I dont consider myself as ford fan.. I was a few years ago.. but now I am just a fan of rally :-) And for me, This is the worst thing that has happened in last ten years that Quensel did today.

Bluuford! I´m with you! This is the only thing that they will understand! Unless the rules isnt gonna be changed! ;)

[Francis44]

Am I the only one seeing Ogier drop out of Citroen next year for other manufacter seat??!!

[Luis Pacheco]

The solution to end with this kind of tactics is giving points in the end of leg one and two to the top 3.

[pettersolberg29]

Am I the only one seeing Ogier drop out of Citroen next year for other manufacter seat??!!

I see him dropping out of Citroen Junior, yes. To join the full Citroen squad alongside Sordo if Loeb gets his 7th title.

[Barreis]

I agree..

[AndyRAC]

Yet another boring WRC parade is finished............

Roll on 2011 when we hopefully will have some competition!!!!!

Well my fear is that there won't be any competition. Surely we should have solid news by now about new Manufacturers. Please, not another Ford/Citroen borathon...

[COD]

Broken altenator belt for Tuohino. Quite many Fiestas had the same problem...

[chryby]

some pictures from third leg:
http://www.rally-mania.cz/photogallery.php?id=679&fseason=2010

[serial jeff]

It would've been a very good rally without all the "tactics". It'd be nice if Seb put a stop to this at Citroen. He may just be a driver and Quesnel is the boss, but seriously, if Seb says he wants something there's not much they can do to disagree.

Maybe the starting order for the entire rally could be fixed before it even began, elimnating the tactics that are employed to change it. Perhaps days 1 and 3 could start in order of championship standings, while day 2 starts in reverse order?

[zatharas]

in cricket, the morning of a match, the captains toss a coin and the winner has the option of either batting first or sending the other side in to bat. why don't they simply get drivers 1 and 2 in the standings (or championship if it is day 1 of a rally) to toss a coin before cars leave the service park in the morning, and the winner gets the option: to go first on the road (if they want to) or put the other driver first on the road. simple, and would end these stupid tactics completely.

[xavier]

Quesnel and all drivers have said they dislike the rule for 2 years now (even though Ford Driver are less vocal about it but i think it's because of the team position). Only Malcom Wilson is for them (for a reason i fail to see).

I think Quesnel is so fed up with these rules than he decided to basically make the system explode in the hope the FIA will finally change that.

Note that we cannot blame the teams or the drivers, they have a set a rule and they can play within them. The blame of that farcical situation is only on the FIA

[tmx]

I see him dropping out of Citroen Junior, yes. To join the full Citroen squad alongside Sordo if Loeb gets his 7th title. And I see Loeb stay rallying with Citroen along with Ogier in the manu team. I don't see Loeb quitting rally yet because he doesn't show any signs of it in the interviews and still is motivated.

I think it's a tough call for Citroen, Ogier is becoming good enough to be in top team, especially if he end up with more points than Sordo by end of this year, but they can't just discard Sordo because he's a tallent too.

Two things going against Sordo: Even if Sordo does stay, either manu or junior team, he will not be allow to fight for the title. If he is in manu team along with Ogier, he'll be a second driver.

It won't be hard for Sordo to find a drive if there is one available, but there isn't a team more competitive than Citroen. The best he can do now is try to beat Ogier in every rally to prove himself so he can stay 2nd to Loeb for 2011. However, by 2012 Ogier will be promoted to factory team regardless of Sordo performance.

[Viking]

Note that we cannot blame the teams or the drivers, they have a set a rule and they can play within them. The blame of that farcical situation is only on the FIA

We (or FIA) can blame them if the teams are bending the rules so much that it is "bringing the sport into disrepute" as in the Nelson Piquet Jr/Renault Crashgate.
The late/early TC penalty rule was not meant for teams playing around with starting positions!

[tmx]

A thought occur it wouldn't make sense to have two Frechman in a team for PR value, but if marketed correctly maybe they can still promote with Sordo in junior team, if you look at Ford situation with Ken. My point remains, Sordo shouldn't bank on being the lead driver, unless they promised it to him by now.


I think Quesnel is so fed up with these rules than he decided to basically make the system explode in the hope the FIA will finally change that. Citroen is quite clever, regardless of what the team principal say. If that was really what Quesnel think then he must be irresponsible because he took a lot from Ogier today, but he knows what he was doing. This isn't the first time. Was it one of the rally last year they tell both Rautanbach and Ogier to slow down so Seb can slot in for points.

[serial jeff]

Quesnel and all drivers have said they dislike the rule for 2 years now

He may claim that, but I don't buy it. Quesnel has repeatedly sacrificied a good result for some of his drivers to help the team. Regardless of what he says, Quesnel is perfectly happy to spit in the face of fair competition and do whatever it takes to get points.

[Bobcat]

Quesnel and all drivers have said they dislike the rule for 2 years now (even though Ford Driver are less vocal about it but i think it's because of the team position). Only Malcom Wilson is for them (for a reason i fail to see).

I think Quesnel is so fed up with these rules than he decided to basically make the system explode in the hope the FIA will finally change that.

Note that we cannot blame the teams or the drivers, they have a set a rule and they can play within them. The blame of that farcical situation is only on the FIA
As far as I know, FIA = France In-house-PSA Assistance, this is a great way how to attract more automakers.

[AndyRAC]

According to Autosport, the drivers want to use Shakedown as a qualifying session, to decide the running order. Personally, I'm all for it.
As for Quesnel, he has history; protesting against Audi at Le Mans\ Sebring. Not that Ford are innocent either!

[RS]

Quesnel and all drivers have said they dislike the rule for 2 years now (even though Ford Driver are less vocal about it but i think it's because of the team position). Only Malcom Wilson is for them (for a reason i fail to see).

I think Quesnel is so fed up with these rules than he decided to basically make the system explode in the hope the FIA will finally change that.


I agree. Quesnel has been the most outspoken against the current rules, so it's no use blaming him for today's situation.

The reason that Wilson likes it the way it is is that it gives his drivers a better chance of winning.

[serial jeff]

According to Autosport, the drivers want to use Shakedown as a qualifying session, to decide the running order

If the drivers are for it I'm sure it'd be good, but I don't understand how that would work... would the shakedown results give the reverse starting order for day 1, or all three days?

Even the current system would be fine if drivers weren't allowed to know splits and times during the last stage of the day. Stopping any non-emergency radio contact between teams and drivers would do it, but it'd be difficult to enforce. Drivers could still slow down at the end of the stage in the hopes of getting a better position, but without knowing what was going on, it'd be a risky move.

[TMorel]

Well as Wilson and Ford are just as happy with these tactics where do you all suggest Ogier and Sordo move to? Both manufacturers are pulling these tactic not just the evil French as some of you seem to imply.

[tmx]

Or men pop out from the bush with a sign. For qualifying, then I would just try to qualify slower. For lower class sweeping, you have to think marketing as well, people wants to see the fast cars.

Going back to reverse seems to be the best choice if you want changes.

[jrally]

Someone could tell me why Flodin lost 27m in the last stage to Armindo and yet is still in front of him in overall classification ?

[Tomi]

According to Autosport, the drivers want to use Shakedown as a qualifying session, to decide the running order.

It would be good, also it would give some value to the shakedown, at the moment its nothing but a wast of time.
The system that they did have in AUS a few years back, where drivers could choose their starting order was best sofar.

[Josti]

According to Autosport, the drivers want to use Shakedown as a qualifying session, to decide the running order. Personally, I'm all for it.
As for Quesnel, he has history; protesting against Audi at Le Mans\ Sebring. Not that Ford are innocent either!

Sounds sensible.

How did the system worked in the old days, where the drivers were seeded a different starting number (almost) every rally? Was it just a draw or..?

[tmx]

It would be good, also it would give some value to the shakedown, at the moment its nothing but a wast of time.
The system that they did have in AUS a few years back, where drivers could choose their starting order was best sofar. Not a waste of time, need to drive a bit to get the feeling, especially drivers who gets little to no testing. How will you know how to setup the car for the rally? How about F1 practices, waste of times? No testings for newcomers like Rosjean.

Of course, you can have qualifying in addition to shakedown. Again I point out its better to qualify slower so you can start later, same thing. However, let highest qualifier choose his starting position, and so on for the next fastest qualifier. This is still down to tactic and will get abused.


Someone could tell me why Flodin lost 27m in the last stage to Armindo and yet is still in front of him in overall classification ? It was seconds.

[Tomi]

Not a waste of time, need to drive a bit to get the feeling, especially drivers who gets little to no testing. How will you know how to setup the car for the rally? How about F1 practices, waste of times? No testings for newcomers like Rosjean.

Of course, you can have qualifying in addition to shakedown. Again I point out its better to qualify slower so you can start later, same thing. However, let highest qualifier choose his starting position, and so on for the next fastest qualifier. This is still down to tactic and will get abused. Don't think qualifying works for rallying.

It was seconds.

Offcourse the fastest chooses where he want to start between 1-15, the second fastest after him, 15 fastest should do like this, the rest in time order. Also there should be limited runs, max 3, fastest counts.
And this same could be used also to decide next days driving order, the fastes chooses where he want to start next day.... and so on.

[AndyRAC]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82678

Seems perfectly sensible to me.

[serial jeff]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82678

Seems perfectly sensible to me.

I like it too

[Red bull]

Am I the only one seeing Ogier drop out of Citroen next year for other manufacter seat??!!
Its totally impossible your honour :eek: maybe if there is another french team in 2011 :p :

[Oppositelock]

There is a very simple solution (which has been used in various national cahmpionships) to stop drivers from deliberately slowing down: Award championship points for every day as well as the overall position at the finish.

I think, drivers and teams will think twice if they have to sacrifice let's say five points for a better road position.

Problem is, I must admit, that won't stop them from fussing araound with TCs the next day.

[bluuford]

No, points every day makes the points system very difficult to understand and then it is not rally but rally sprint.
There are actually several possibilities.
1. Use shakedown as a qualification for first day and then top 10 reversed. No need to put top 15 cars in reverse order. In Jordan we had only 10 WRC- cars. No need to put too slow drivers in front.
2. Between first and zero cars apply sweeper cars. For example cars that will be financed by different programs like Pirelli star drivers who dont drive for their own money. They must be 4WD cars and they should create similar lines to WRCars.

At the end of day we still have problem. Who can guarantee that if we find some drivers too front of the start list (fails to do well in shakedown) then no one else from sattellite team wont check in early and give better road position for official driver? There is easy solution. No early check-in. Currently you get 1 minute penalty for one minute early. Then there will not be any penalties. It will not be allowed to check in early. You can just fell back with time penalty but you cannot start earlier.

[TMorel]

I thought that time penalties didn't count towards starting position, did I just imagine that or was it a throwback to the days of Sainz & McRae ?

[Tomi]

Not a waste of time, need to drive a bit to get the feeling, especially drivers who gets little to no testing. How will you know how to setup the car for the rally? How about F1 practices, waste of times? No testings for newcomers like Rosjean.

Well shakedown stages seldom reflect the caracter of the actual rally stages, and also if you think there is time to do bigger changes in the setup, you are wrong in that too.

[bluuford]

I thought that time penalties didn't count towards starting position, did I just imagine that or was it a throwback to the days of Sainz & McRae ?

When you are late in the morning then you lose your starting position. When you are early in the morning then you can drive in front of the cars in front of you (depends how many minutes early). So, my idea is to not count "reaching early" to the time control or just give penalty but without changes in road position. You can put the car back where he belonged when he is early (you cannot do that when driver is late for example).

[JFL]

:dozey: maybe Citröen and Ford could pay of some of the backdrivers/privateers (Gr.N or whatever) to show up really early, and the they could sweap the road...

[Ucci]

I took the time to read all the today's posts and must admit, I'm very disappointment for all of you guys.....You are behaving like old grandmothers, squealing, crying, accusing Quesnel as a criminal!!!??? Who the hell are you, by what right are you doing this?? If the rules permit this, accept this like an adult person !! Loeb would win either way.
Instead you should concentrate on the event, the race was pretty interesting, a lot of changes, particularly in the SWRC class, not to mention first points for Räikkönen-good job Kimi, calm ride, keep on Kimi.....
I have a feeling that all Ford fans are now offended and you are looking for an excuse in dirty tactics, but the problem is in the Ford M-Sport department: they don't have a driver capable to tackle Loeb!! Here is the essence of the problem. Now just attention is turning away....And this tactic can be a good excuse. And a further pain for Ford fans is Mr.Ogier, who is entering in WRC drivers elite with big steps....
So, I'm very pleased by a great Loeb victory, see you in Turkey. Champagne will be waiting for the fastest..Citroën will bring glasses ! Good night!

[COD]

I thought that time penalties didn't count towards starting position, did I just imagine that or was it a throwback to the days of Sainz & McRae ?

If taken at the last control of the day (start order decided based on results after last stage of the day, excluding possible superSS). But if they take penalties the following morning, then they obviously apply.

[JFL]

I took the time to read all the today's posts and must admit, I'm very disappointment for all of you guys.....You are behaving like old grandmothers, squealing, crying, accusing Quesnel as a criminal!!!??? Who the hell are you, by what right are you doing this?? If the rules permit this, accept this like an adult person !! Loeb would win either way.
Instead you should concentrate on the event, the race was pretty interesting, a lot of changes, particularly in the SWRC class, not to mention first points for Räikkönen-good job Kimi, calm ride, keep on Kimi.....
I have a feeling that all Ford fans are now offended and you are looking for an excuse in dirty tactics, but the problem is in the Ford M-Sport department: they don't have a driver capable to tackle Loeb!! Here is the essence of the problem. Now just attention is turning away....And this tactic can be a good excuse. And a further pain for Ford fans is Mr.Ogier, who is entering in WRC drivers elite with big steps....
So, I'm very pleased by a great Loeb victory, see you in Turkey. Champagne will be waiting for the fastest..Citroën will bring glasses ! Good night!

I kinda agree with you.. But if Loeb would win anyway, why do all this?

[DonJippo]

Who the hell are you, by what right are you doing this??

Simple, this is a free forum where all have right to express their opinion as they feel, same way like you have right to write your bull**** here others can do that as well if they want.

[alleskids]

PG Andersson is getting points in SWRC, due to entering under the team banner, but his team JM Racing / Rufa Sports is not registerd for the World Cup champion standing. So how come he can score points then? Mikkelse could not score in Sweden.

[bluuford]

I took the time to read all the today's posts and must admit, I'm very disappointment for all of you guys.....You are behaving like old grandmothers, squealing, crying, accusing Quesnel as a criminal!!!??? Who the hell are you, by what right are you doing this?? If the rules permit this, accept this like an adult person !! Loeb would win either way.
Instead you should concentrate on the event, the race was pretty interesting, a lot of changes, particularly in the SWRC class, not to mention first points for Räikkönen-good job Kimi, calm ride, keep on Kimi.....
I have a feeling that all Ford fans are now offended and you are looking for an excuse in dirty tactics, but the problem is in the Ford M-Sport department: they don't have a driver capable to tackle Loeb!! Here is the essence of the problem. Now just attention is turning away....And this tactic can be a good excuse. And a further pain for Ford fans is Mr.Ogier, who is entering in WRC drivers elite with big steps....
So, I'm very pleased by a great Loeb victory, see you in Turkey. Champagne will be waiting for the fastest..Citroën will bring glasses ! Good night!

You know I was sad to loose one day of good rallying.
Try to imagine. Loeb first on the first day, sweeping, felling behind to third place, Latvala first on the road for the second day. At the end of second day Loeb leads with quite a good margin and Latvala managed to third from first on the road.. now imagine the joy of the win by Loeb if he would have defended Latvala being first on the road? or Latvala winning by just a handful of seconds? It would have been great end for the weekend but now.. nothing happened in WRC, SWRC or PWRC today. I am just sad for loosing that adrenalin dose I get when I am watching which one is going to win. By the way I am playing one virtual manager game and my team was Citroen-Solberg-Ogier :-)

[Rallyper]

Norf 2010 is doing just the way we want to get rid of the cheating process at the end of the rallies.

They will have a qualifying SD where first man starting tneth on friday mornings first stage. Dont know how starting order decides on Saturday but still a good try which will be interesting to see how it works out. :)

[Mirek]

This system was already used in IRC.

[raybak]

They could always do what we do here in Australia in tarmac rallies. Have the slowest car in the field start 1st the fastest last. Means the roads are well swept and the spectators will hang around for the whole stage.

Ray

[figjam]

Well I had a great time and glad I made the effort to come here, not as hot as last time, but still warm. I spoke to rally radio and sent you guys a cherio from the end of stage 15, did anyone hear it?

[Ucci]

Simple, this is a free forum where all have right to express their opinion as they feel, same way like you have right to write your bull**** here others can do that as well if they want.
It hurts....I see you are not enough men to admit and say: well done Loeb, you are still number 1.!!

[tmx]

Well I had a great time and glad I made the effort to come here, not as hot as last time, but still warm. I spoke to rally radio and sent you guys a cherio from the end of stage 15, did anyone hear it? Yes, thanks for mentioning us. Colin wasn't fond of it because he said we criticize him.

[6789]

Well I had a great time and glad I made the effort to come here, not as hot as last time, but still warm. I spoke to rally radio and sent you guys a cherio from the end of stage 15, did anyone hear it?
I got the message too, they said people on here criticised them lol

[Tomi]

It hurts....I see you are not enough men to admit and say: well done Loeb, you are still number 1.!!

Seems that you have dropped of the notes, this issue has nothing to do with any person, but about the system and sportmanship.

[Wasted Talent]

PG Andersson is getting points in SWRC, due to entering under the team banner, but his team JM Racing / Rufa Sports is not registerd for the World Cup champion standing. So how come he can score points then? Mikkelse could not score in Sweden.

PG got special dispensation from the FIA before the event as a late SWRC entry.

WT

[ProRally]

Just back from Jordan, was funny at TC after first service saturday, Ogier arriving late.... but then the next TC of ss14 that was hilarious.... to see it on the timing screens...
Jean Todt was also there, so at the stewards meeting maybe hard to talk about this as JT started this in 1980s with team-orders.
Anyway, event for me was weak, the stages ok, but service park is not. There are hotels there but thats it. Each hotel where you go into they screen your car and bags like on airports...
Next event NZ, at least that one is going to be good as it is 40th edition

[bluuford]

So, looking at the results wise, I can see that Attiyah got third place in MERC and our future JWRC challenger (Kruuda) ended his first ever WRC rally without using superally 50 minutes behind leader. He got I think 5 punctures during the race. Four of them were on the first day when he always reached too close to the car in front and while driving in the dust punctured 4 tires in total :-) So, he was 20 minutes behind 2WD winner and SWRC second place Brynildsen :-P

[alleskids]

PG got special dispensation from the FIA before the event as a late SWRC entry.

WT

Thanks for the info. PG can count Sweden as the start of his SWRC season. But he is planning only 1 event outside Europe (Jordan) but needs a second for the championship. Andersson is planning 5 more events (Portugal, Finland, Germany, France, Great Brittain), but all in Europe. His team JM Racing /Rufa Sports is planning Rally Japan, but with an other (local ?) driver.

[Bobcat]

Ford team questions Ogier’s delay in Jordan http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/ford_team_question_ogiers_delay_in_jordan/

Ogier frustrated by Jordan Rally tactics http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/ogier_frustrated_by_jordan_rally_tactics/

[havk]

I took the time to read all the today's posts and must admit, I'm very disappointment for all of you guys.....You are behaving like old grandmothers, squealing, crying, accusing Quesnel as a criminal!!!??? Who the hell are you, by what right are you doing this?? If the rules permit this, accept this like an adult person !! Loeb would win either way.


Probably you're right that Loeb would win without Ogier help, so I'm really disappointed in Citroen decision. They spoil good rally for Ogier, they give a 2nd place to Latvala as Sebastien could be even 2nd. And probably without all this mess still Loeb'd win the rally. Why they didn't wait at least one or two stages to see if Loeb could keep Latvala behind before making decision??? Looks like they devoted Ogier's result for nothing... Apart from that I agree - rules permit this, we can't blame teams for taking advantage of this. It's not the first time when gravel rally is spoiled by tactics and FIA should have solved this problem long time ago.

[serial jeff]

Apart from that I agree - rules permit this, we can't blame teams for taking advantage of this

Just because you can do something, it doesn't mean you should. I think we can totally blame the teams for this. Its violating the spirit of the rules, if not the letter, and we certainly can blame the teams for intentionally finding loopholes that allow this.

[havk]

Well, I'm sure manufacturer points were the main motive in this move. So give Latvala 3 and Sordo 3 makes no change. While securing the 14 relative gain from a sure win by Loeb.

Yes, you're right in maunfacturer points table it doesn't changed anything but still I'd think many times if I did such a move. Ogier just deserved the chance for fighting for 2nd place.

[havk]

Just because you can do something, it doesn't mean you should. I think we can totally blame the teams for this. Its violating the spirit of the rules, if not the letter, and we certainly can blame the teams for intentionally finding loopholes that allow this.

I admit you're right.. but still I think it's FIA to be more responsible for this.
I think Loeb's idea about shakedown deciding about position on the road (already checked in IRC) is best solution.

[Tomi]

Anyway, event for me was weak, the stages ok, but service park is not. There are hotels there but thats it. Each hotel where you go into they screen your car and bags like on airports...
Next event NZ, at least that one is going to be good as it is 40th edition

The reporter, Anette Latva-Piikkilä, reported samekind of things, claimed it was difficult to do her work.

[WRCfan]

Was one of the most pathetic rallies I have ever watched. Seeing all the bullsh*t unfold before me was depressing. What happened to drivers actually driving and winning on their driving abilities?

Now they basically drive the first day to lie 4th or 5th on the road and have these other young guys specially employed for the purpose of then being their lacky within the team cleaning the road for them.

A team needs about 3 cars to try and ensure one guy wins. Mr Quesnel also, every time he talks about why he did something the filthy smirk, I couldn't trust him as far as I could kick him.

Thank goodness I have the better days of rallying on DVD's, just pop those in everytime I need a WRC fix now, watching the recent dribble is not worth it.

[rbatista82]

Photos from Jordan Rally 2010
http://www.supermotores.net/sm/fotos.asp?id=148
http://www.supermotores.net/sm/fotos.asp?id=147

[Barreis]

The only important thing is that Seb. Loeb won and that's it.. :)

[JFL]

Photos from Jordan Rally 2010
http://www.supermotores.net/sm/fotos.asp?id=148
http://www.supermotores.net/sm/fotos.asp?id=147
Nice pics... But where is the yellow C4? ;)

[COD]

Just have to add that with two manufacturers and stupid rule this sport has been destroyed. Hope next year will change everything...

[MJW]

Just have to add that with two manufacturers and stupid rule this sport has been destroyed. Hope next year will change everything...
Not very much will change next year. New car rules mean that hi-tech stays, paddle shift gearboxes, direct injection (200 BAR) turbo engines etc. Maybe Prodrive Mini joins in but I suspect Citroen have had their way, and it will be a Citroen/Ford series in the "new era" Sorry to be negative, but I cant see many manufacturers rushing in with the expensive slightly changed status quo. I don't like S2000 / IRC but at least it has manufacturers, and more cars capable of winning. I feel that allowing hi-tech will keep new manufacturers away. - I hope I am wrong.

[Mirek]

Škoda confirmed ongoing development of new WRC car. In the moment we don't know if they want to only supply private teams or also take part in WRC as works team.

So in the moment it looks like we have four new generation WRC cars for start - DS3, Fiesta, Mini and Fabia. At least it's more than two :)

[MJW]

]Škoda confirmed ongoing development of new WRC car. In the moment we don't know if they want to only supply private teams or also take part in WRC as works team.

So in the moment it looks like we have four new generation WRC cars for start - DS3, Fiesta, Mini and Fabia. At least it's more than two :)
Thats good, and I am glad if that's the case. I had picked up on something about Skoda - can you point me to something official? Rumours that the official announcement re the Prrodrive Mini later this month. Names connected with Prodrive Mini are rumoured to be Kris Meeke, PG Andersson and Chris Atkinson. Allthough everyone (including Prodrive management) are denying that anything about drivers is sorted.

[Mirek]

The source is this article (in Czech only): http://moto.sport.cz/moto/rallye/166735-skodovka-chysta-vyvoj-sestnactistovky-pro-svetovou-rallye.html

Mr. Hrabánek, Škoda Motorsport boss, confirmed there that Škoda will continue in S2000 development and in the same time starts development of 1.6T engine for future WRC car which he considered important for Škoda because new WRC cars will be allowed in all FIA championships, not WRC only. As far as I understand that is the main reason for building that car.

[WRCfan]

Great news about Skoda possibly joining the sport again on a higher level.
Missed the Fabia cars on the stages after 05.

[ProRally]

]The source is this article (in Czech only): http://moto.sport.cz/moto/rallye/166735-skodovka-chysta-vyvoj-sestnactistovky-pro-svetovou-rallye.html

Mr. Hrabánek, Škoda Motorsport boss, confirmed there that Škoda will continue in S2000 development and in the same time starts development of 1.6T engine for future WRC car which he considered important for Škoda because new WRC cars will be allowed in all FIA championships, not WRC only. As far as I understand that is the main reason for building that car.

Fantastic news....

[Sulland]

In english: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmoto.sport.cz%2Fmoto%2Fra llye%2F166735-skodovka-chysta-vyvoj-sestnactistovky-pro-svetovou-rallye.html&sl=cs&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

[Tomi]

Good that Skoda finally came out from the closet, there has been allkind of rumours about this for a long time already.
Hopefully this gives Hänninen a way to get out from the toss challenge, and PG a seat too.

[alleskids]

Janne Touhino was entered with Team Abu Dhabi for MERC points in Rally Jordan. Strange as he is also entered with team JanPro in SWRC/S2000 World Cup

[jbmarcus21]

some pics Rally Jordan : http://planetemarcus.free.fr/photosjordanrally10.htm

[RS]

Good that Skoda finally came out from the closet, there has been allkind of rumours about this for a long time already.
Hopefully this gives Hänninen a way to get out from the toss challenge, and PG a seat too.

Nice chap, aren't you Tomi.

Perhaps without the opportunity to drive in IRC Juho would have had nothing at all. Now I am sure he is a better driver because of it and maybe he has a chance to progress that into a WRC drive too which would be good for him and good for the sport.

[Tomi]

Nice chap, aren't you Tomi.

Perhaps without the opportunity to drive in IRC Juho would have had nothing at all. Now I am sure he is a better driver because of it and maybe he has a chance to progress that into a WRC drive too which would be good for him and good for the sport.

It was good for him, at that point yes, but in several interviews he has hinted that his aim is the top level of the sport, this could be his chance.
It sure would be nice for us Finns too, if we get 2 new drivers driving on the top level next year.

[jbmarcus21]

again pics from Jordan Rally : http://planetemarcus.free.fr/photosjordanrally10.htm

http://forum.rallyeforce.free.fr/files/4190.jpg

[Livewireshock]

again pics from Jordan Rally : http://planetemarcus.free.fr/photosjordanrally10.htm

http://forum.rallyeforce.free.fr/files/4190.jpg

Cool picture. The road works after the heavy rains certainly made it a different event from the slicked up almost tarmac like gravel roads of the previous WRC Rally Jordan.

[Moriarty]

Jordan tactics on tv - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct3eD7TnNrs

[bluuford]

Jordan tactics on tv - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct3eD7TnNrs

LOL Mikkos face when he said: "I just woke up too early" His face was like he was still sleeping :-)

[6789]

Shakedown today.. Go Petter!!

[Langdale Forest]

again pics from Jordan Rally : http://planetemarcus.free.fr/photosjordanrally10.htm

http://forum.rallyeforce.free.fr/files/4190.jpg


Kickin' up some dust! :s mokin:




Shakedown today.. Go Petter!!


Wrong thread! :p