Mobile phones & tablets thread [Archive] - Page 4

Jag_Warrior

18th May 2011, 19:41

Obama has had a Blackberry for years, since well before he became President. While the platform is secure, his device(s) had to have an extra layer of security built in before he was allowed to use it on official calls. The NSA has built very advanced encryption and code changing into the existing RIM features. And Obama doesn't use one Blackberry, but several (randomly). So it's not as if the Blackberry, off the shelf, was sufficient for the job.

Interestingly enough, the PM of Norway used an iPad to run his government after the volcanic eruptions last year.

You're right that security is important. But as was detailed above, back office support can and does add extra security to the company's liking. An aerospace company and military contractor that I had an affiliation with is now allowing iPhones on its network (as well as Blackberrys), and a slew of iPads showed up in the engineering dept. late last year. This is the same operation that forces people from other company divisions to give up their cell phones at the security office if those phones are equipped with cameras. But those employees who agree to have their iPhones on the network have some sort of software/app installed so that the phone can be remotely wiped clean if it is lost or stolen. When I was there, a laptop was stolen and you'd have thought the world was about to end. So given how RIMM is now losing enterprise marketshare, it seems that some companies are balancing security concerns with how capable the device in question is.

Mark

20th May 2011, 08:49

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13409318 Nokia to drop Ovi brand.
Good. It was a silly idea in the first place, when it should have been called Nokia Store or similar. Why bring an entirely new brand into it when you've already got a perfectly good one!

Of course, Smartphones are going to use Windows marketplace, but Nokia is still going to make a massive number of phones running symbian - just not top end stuff, and they will continue to use the Nokia/Ovi store.

Now how sensible it is to be producing and supporting phones running on two entirely different operating systems is another question entirely!

Daniel

20th May 2011, 10:15

Daniel

20th May 2011, 11:51

The Ovi store was pretty awful to navigate and the apps were crap though. Hopefully for Nokia fans that will improve.

Well, WP7 only has 1 screen resolution and all apps for one phone work on all others (other than of course HTC apps working on a Samsung phone) so the experience will be much better :) The problem with the Ovi store is that there were so many different phones and different screen resolutions and aspect ratio's.

MrJan

20th May 2011, 11:55

My Nokia is basic as but I find the Nokia software to sync it with the PC to be very annoying. It's hard to find exactly what you're after and just clogs itself up, even iTunes is easier to use.

Mark

20th May 2011, 11:55

Yep, that was certainly an issue, for Symbian in general trying to get one OS to work with a vast array of different hardware. When you read the reviews of applications on the Ovi store they nearly always said e.g. "Doesn't work on N97".

Daniel

20th May 2011, 11:59

My Nokia is basic as but I find the Nokia software to sync it with the PC to be very annoying. It's hard to find exactly what you're after and just clogs itself up, even iTunes is easier to use.

OUCH :D

As above, thankfully the software to sync the phone will all be the same, so if you bought a Nokia WP7 and I came to your house and wanted to sync my Samsung Omnia 7 then I could :) I don't know the software for Android but suspect it's possibly much the same?

MrJan

20th May 2011, 12:02

OUCH :D

As above, thankfully the software to sync the phone will all be the same, so if you bought a Nokia WP7 and I came to your house and wanted to sync my Samsung Omnia 7 then I could :) I don't know the software for Android but suspect it's possibly much the same?

:D It's true though. The old Nokia PC Suite was a doddle but for some reason I had to 'upgrade' to the Ovi Suite which is rubbish. I love Nokia as a basic phone brand, the 6303 that I use for work does exactly what a mobile should and is solid, but I'm tired of syncing to my PC and not being able to find the option where it doesn't delete new numbers that I've put on the phone (sometimes it does this, sometimes it doesn't).

Daniel

20th May 2011, 12:17

:D It's true though. The old Nokia PC Suite was a doddle but for some reason I had to 'upgrade' to the Ovi Suite which is rubbish. I love Nokia as a basic phone brand, the 6303 that I use for work does exactly what a mobile should and is solid, but I'm tired of syncing to my PC and not being able to find the option where it doesn't delete new numbers that I've put on the phone (sometimes it does this, sometimes it doesn't).
I know what you mean :) I didn't use Ovi Suite much tbh as my last phone (an e71) was quite good and didn't need a huge amount of updating, I never really plugged it in much. My Omnia 7 has required 3 or 4 updates and the software is a doddle to use :)

Daniel

20th May 2011, 12:24

When I had my 5800 Xpress I found the apps that were designed specifically for that to be rather below par. It is about 18 months since I've last used Nokia and Ovi so I can't say that is still the case. I don't know why Nokia don't just join Androids Market place and concentrate on producing stylish phones rather than focusing their brand around their own operating system whilst trying to play catch up. There collaboration with Window's is a positive but when you have companies like HTC joining forces with both Android and WP7, it makes you wonder if Nokia will ever concede they have lost a massive part of the market in just 2 short years.

Well the thing is Nokia's sell well regardless of OS. People are still buying Nokia's these days despite the lack of a proper OS compared to the rest. Nokia customers want consistency (remember how long the original Nokia charger was around for?!?!??!?) and IMHO WP7 offers that. If you walk into a store and there are 2 Nokia's side by side they HAVE to be very similar in terms of software or else people will just get confused. Microsoft are so strict that they didn't allow HTC to put HTC Sense on top of the OS as they do with their Android handsets and made it something that is just an app.

You can't make everyone happy and I think allying themselves with WP7 is more sensible for Nokia than hedging their bets with WP7 and Android.

Mark

20th May 2011, 12:32

Daniel

20th May 2011, 12:38

tbh allowing manufacturers or networks to force their own software onto users was never a good idea. One of the best plans Apple had was to stop carriers from doing that and give users a consistent experience. I remember when the iPhone was first launched and commetators were saying it would never be successful as they wouldn't allow carriers to install their bloatware on there.

Can't disagree with that. The only thing which 3 have put on my phone is their little app which enables me to look at billing and so on. I'm free to delete it if I like :) I also like the fact that unlike my N95, I've had all the updates so far that Microsoft have offered for the phone :) I had to debrand (effectively you tell your phone that it's not from any particular carrier) my N95 to get updates for it....

Consistency, consistency and more consistency :)

Daniel

27th May 2011, 05:00

Demonlion Chica was looking for a new QWERTY phone and wanted recommendations. So I said to look at the Dell Venue. The link I sent her said it was available on T Mobile. Great you'd think! So she checks the site and it's not on there. So I went to the Microsoft site http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/buy/7/phones.aspx and it seems it's only available from Dell directly.

Now call me silly, but if Microsoft (or Dell for that matter) want to sell these things then they should be on the carriers site and also available instore. Now as I'm not in the US I'm assuming it's not available instore and although i could be wrong I suspect I'm not.

Facepalm, only the iPhone has such a draw that it could be an online only sale item...... Microsoft should be forcing Dell to sell their product in their carrier's stores or telling them to GTFO.....

Mark

27th May 2011, 07:17

Facepalm, only the iPhone has such a draw that it could be an online only sale item

Which of course it isn't, Apple aren't *that* daft!

Microsoft should be forcing Dell to sell their product in their carrier's stores or telling them to GTFO.....

But that's up to Dell? If they want to cripple their business model that's up to them?!

ioan

27th May 2011, 21:29

raybak

28th May 2011, 11:20

Going to get the Samsung Galaxy tab next week. I was hoping that the smaller version will also be upgraded/upgradeable to Honeycomb but it doesn't look like it. :\
Anyway it looks and feel like a great mobile device and has the right size too.

Got a Galaxy Tab a few months back, very happy with it. Has plenty of great features. Can even use it as a good sized rally tripmeter.

Ray

Jag_Warrior

4th June 2011, 23:15

On April 28, after an earnings guidance call, the stock fell 11% to around $50/share - a six month low. On May 13, the stock was trading down another 13%, at $43.14 (just above its 52 week low).

If the sales don't meet expectations, or they try to use fuzzy math to express sales (as Samsung did with its tablet and Microsoft appears to be doing with the Windows Phone 7), then I expect RIM to take another hit after the May 28 earnings announcement - probably down to the mid $30's. If they exceed expectations, then the stock should recover. But we'll have to wait and see.

I should have gone short! While walking around Best Buy the other week, an associate there told me they weren't selling the PlayDead... I mean, PlayBook. Now I see that analysts have cut their sales forecasts for it by 23%? Why didn't I short this thing???!!! An "easy" $4.50/share in two weeks!!! :mad:

RIMM Intraday Low on June 3: $38.53
52 week low: $38.53
Close: $38.96

As for Nokia, is Nokia going to survive? Will Microsoft come to the rescue (with its checkbook) if things get any worse? Or will the company just be broken up and sold in pieces, as some large investors and analyst suggest? The stock has also fallen out of bed again, and is trading at/near its (new) 52 week low.

The tech world is starting to develop some really interesting news stories!

Daniel

4th June 2011, 23:16

I should have gone short! While walking around Best Buy the other week, an associate there told me they weren't selling the PlayDead... I mean, PlayBook. Now I see that analysts have cut their sales forecasts for it by 23%? Why didn't I short this thing???!!! :mad:

RIMM Intraday Low on June 3: $38.53
52 week low: $38.53
Close: $38.96

As for Nokia, is Nokia going to survive? Will Microsoft come to the rescue (with its checkbook) if things get any worse? Or will the company just be broken up and sold in pieces, as some large investors and analyst suggest? The stock has also fallen out of bed again, and is trading at/near its (new) 52 week low.

The tech world is starting to develop some really interesting news stories!

I think you're looking very short term. Tried a Windows Phone 7 yet?

Jag_Warrior

4th June 2011, 23:27

I think you're looking very short term. Tried a Windows Phone 7 yet?

Nope, I'm still the proud owner of a 2003 Motorola v60 flip phone. Unless it finally dies, I plan on keeping it for at least another year. I'm a nostalgic old schooler. :bounce: The iPod Touch allows me to do anything else I might want to do - and I don't have to pay for monthly service with it. :)

Short term or long term, Nokia and RIM are down hard. So is Microsoft, which has been dead money for about ten years now - it's around a new 52 week low too. Microsoft may find its way. But Nokia better get itself together soon or it risks a shareholder demand for breakup. RIM isn't in as bad a shape as Nokia, but what I've been saying is happening. They need the PlayBook to be successful, as it leads to the next phone platform. And thus far, the market has largely rejected it. Not good at all.

odykas

4th June 2011, 23:35

I think you're looking very short term. Tried a Windows Phone 7 yet?

http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/scared/scared0008.gif http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/scared/scared0008.gif

Daniel

4th June 2011, 23:41

Nope, I'm still the proud owner of a 2003 Motorola v60 flip phone. Unless it finally dies, I plan on keeping it for at least another year. I'm a nostalgic old schooler. :bounce: The iPod Touch allows me to do anything else I might want to do - and I don't have to pay for monthly service with it. :)

Short term or long term, Nokia and RIM are down hard. So is Microsoft, which has been dead money for about ten years now. Microsoft may find its way. But Nokia better get itself together soon or it risks a shareholder demand for breakup. RIM isn't in as bad a shape as Nokia, but what I've been saying is happening. They need the PlayBook to be successful, as it leads to the next phone platform. And thus far, the market has largely rejected it. Not good at all.

Well then, not to be funny but slagging off Nokia without checking out their silver bullet is a bit dumb non?

That's like someone who's never driven or heard of a Subaru saying they're crap ;)

You should have a look at the coverage of the Mango update for Windows Phone 7, it takes the Windows Phone 7 more or less up to a level pegging with Android and iOS. Just remember that a good deal of the stuff they're talking about is built in and not a third party app.

Daniel

4th June 2011, 23:41

http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/scared/scared0008.gif http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/scared/scared0008.gif

Have you tried one tOdy? I guess you prefer closed source Google stuff :D

odykas

4th June 2011, 23:51

Have you tried one tOdy? I guess you prefer closed source Google stuff :D

Welcome to Android | Android Open Source (http://source.android.com/index.html)

http://serve.mysmiley.net/happy/happy0099.gif

Daniel

4th June 2011, 23:52

Google (http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&xhr=t&q=android+closed+source&cp=15&pf=p&sclient=psy&safe=off&source=hp&aq=0&aqi=&aql=&oq=android+closed+&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=1049c6ab4560320d&biw=1920&bih=1105)

Do some reading, Android is nowhere near as open as they want you to think ;)

Jag_Warrior

4th June 2011, 23:57

Well then, not to be funny but slagging off Nokia without checking out their silver bullet is a bit dumb non?

You're confusing a product with the fortunes of the company. One does not necessarily have anything to do with the other. The Ford Edsel was said to be a great and innovative car in its time. But it was a disaster in the market.

You should have a look at the coverage of the Mango update for Windows Phone 7, it takes the Windows Phone 7 more or less up to a level pegging with Android and iOS. Just remember that a good deal of the stuff they're talking about is built in and not a third party app.

I would, but I don't think Mango will run on my iPod Touch. :D

Don't get me wrong, Daniel. Mango might be a wonderful offering from Microsoft. But if we're talking about my own personal likes and desires, I have no real interest in it... or any other smartphone, for my own use. And from a company or stock perspective, I'll go long or go short, irrespective of whether I'm a fan of a product or company. I'll go long MSFT if I think the trade will make money for me. I'll go short AAPL if I think that will make money for me. I'm as emotionally detached as possible when it comes to investing.

That's like someone who's never driven or heard of a Subaru saying they're crap ;)

As for Subaru, while I might like their cars (or did), it could still be a crap or poorly run company.

odykas

5th June 2011, 08:50

GridGirl

5th June 2011, 12:08

Isn't the techo nerd geek conference were they normally unveil the new iPhone taking place this week?

Mark

5th June 2011, 12:19

It is indeed!
http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/

Daniel

6th June 2011, 21:36

Just want to point out that a few of the things that Apple has debuted today were already being done by other companies :)

Ability to take photos without unlocking the phone with the click of a button, WP7 has done it since launch. Probably one of the most useful features WP7 offers :)
Apple iOS 5 adds instant camera access from lock screen and shutter release to volume-up button -- Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/06/apple-adds-camera-shortcut-to-lock-screen-volume-up-shutter-key/)

Uploading your crap to the cloud, WP7 already did it :)

Syncing over WiFi, WP7 already did it.

OTA updates, Nokia has been doing this for years.

Now of course adding features is a good thing so you can hardly criticise Apple for it, but I just wanted to point out that in some ways WP7 is superior to iOS. Of course only an idiot would say that WP7 as it is at the moment is better than iOS but I think come Mango time the gap will be far smaller :)

Have a look at this and tell me that the Bing visual search isn't cool :) Jump to about 3:30 and I think the biggest iOS or Android fan will admit that it's a pretty cool feature.

OP30F3ZxTmw

odykas

6th June 2011, 21:48

Apple is just marketing hype..... :|

GridGirl

6th June 2011, 22:31

Daniel, your post is completely and utterly predictable but I still cant quite understand why your trying to point out things that everyone knows already. Apple always take old things and throw magic fairy dust over them and magically a whole lot more people want them. I'm guessing most rival tablet manufacturers weren't complaining when tablets took off again after the launch of the ipad. Long live the magic fairy dust eh?. :p

Daniel

6th June 2011, 22:37

GridGirl

6th June 2011, 22:57

Maybe so. I think I'm just bored of you trying to tell us that Apple are evil because they are not innovative. We all know they just glitz up old things you don't need to give is a blow by blow account of what they have sprinkled the fairy dust over. We have a good idea already. :p

ioan

6th June 2011, 23:13

Apple is just marketing hype..... :|

For once we agree! :D

Daniel

6th June 2011, 23:15

And perhaps I'm tired of you telling what to say and what not to say?

airshifter

7th June 2011, 03:46

GridGirl

7th June 2011, 07:20

Windoze products will be getting fairy dust in version 3.5.1 update 3. So there! :)

Surely Windoze cant have magic fairy dust as well. Say it isnt so. ;)

Its quite interrsting that Apple have said you have all this stuff but not until Autumn though. Is it paving the way for a new or revamped iPhone with the new IOS later in the year?

Mark

7th June 2011, 08:14

Just want to point out that a few of the things that Apple has debuted today were already being done by other companies

But iOS 5 looks promising and I'm looking forward to it giving my iPhone a new lease of life. As good as iOS is at the things it does, there are some glaring omissions!

Ability to take photos without unlocking the phone with the click of a button, WP7 has done it since launch. Probably one of the most useful features WP7 offers
Apple iOS 5 adds instant camera access from lock screen and shutter release to volume-up button -- Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/06/apple-adds-camera-shortcut-to-lock-screen-volume-up-shutter-key/)And Nokia too, the camera always has a seperate button so hold it down and the camera app starts.

Uploading your crap to the cloud, WP7 already did it :) As did many other phones.

Syncing over WiFi, WP7 already did it.
OTA updates, Nokia has been doing this for years.This is about flamin' time. They really did need to get away from the idea that you have a home computer and your phone must return to it on a regular basis. You should be able to just have a phone and nothing else! I can see major firmware updates needing to be done via a wire (as Nokia did). I wonder if they offer an OS upgrade service at Apple shops, and if they charge for it?

Now of course adding features is a good thing so you can hardly criticise Apple for it, but I just wanted to point out that in some ways WP7 is superior to iOS. Of course only an idiot would say that WP7 as it is at the moment is better than iOS but I think come Mango time the gap will be far smaller :) Which makes little sense :p . Sure in some ways WP is better in other ways iOS is better, this is hardly a surprise?

Have a look at this and tell me that the Bing visual search isn't cool :) Sorry I can't do flash :laugh:

Mark

7th June 2011, 08:15

PS. iOS 5 does look look :D , considering it won't be out until "the fall" can we assume that the iPhone 5 won't be out until then either?

Dave B

7th June 2011, 09:00

Updating without a computer should have been a feature from day one: an iPhone and especially an iPad should be considered stand-alone devices and it's monumentally stupid that they rely so heavily on iTunes. Software and OS updates should be performed OTA as a when required - I've just updated half a dozen Android apps with a couple of clicks.

Don't take this as an anti-Apple rant, they've shown that they can successfully shake up a market by making existing ideas user-friendly, but this update just seems to show them playing catch up once again in a market they previously dominated.

As for The Cloud, I can see some uses: for example my calendar and email are up there somewhere and sync effortlessly to my phone and computers; as do contacts, navigation points and some small documents. But what all of these have in common are small file size which I can easily duplicate on my devices.

What I don't think will ever take off is having your media stored in the cloud, mainly because connectivity cannot be guaranteed - especially on the move. I can store thousands of hours of music on a portable device which won't suffer if I'm in a tunnel, out in the sticks, or hit my network's arbitrary usage cap.

MrJan

7th June 2011, 09:15

As for The Cloud, I can see some uses: for example my calendar and email are up there somewhere and sync effortlessly to my phone and computers; as do contacts, navigation points and some small documents. But what all of these have in common are small file size which I can easily duplicate on my devices.

What I don't think will ever take off is having your media stored in the cloud, mainly because connectivity cannot be guaranteed - especially on the move. I can store thousands of hours of music on a portable device which won't suffer if I'm in a tunnel, out in the sticks, or hit my network's arbitrary usage cap.

I haven't read anything about the iCloud but did have a look at the Amazon one when it launched in the US. To me it will be incrediably useful, I use a laptop at work that I don't like to clog with my own stuff (maybe a few photos but very limited music). Something that can easily let me store music online means that the Spotify premium account I was considering just isn't needed :)

However as it's Apple no doubt it will turn out to be extremely limited and they won't let anyone with MS software use it...and you'll only be able to use it on the 5th Tuesday of the month.....when you're wearing a hat at a jaunty angle.

Mark

7th June 2011, 09:17

Dave B

7th June 2011, 09:27

You can update iPhone apps over the air. It's only the firmware that you have to use iTunes for.
Fair do's, but the point still stands that if Apple are trying to promote the iPad as a successor to a home computer then it's crazy that their OS requires a connection to iTunes for any updates. :)

The reliance on iTunes was the main reason (among several) why I opted for Android over iOS - I simply refuse to have it installed on any computer in the house!

Mark

7th June 2011, 09:30

Fair do's, but the point still stands that if Apple are trying to promote the iPad as a successor to a home computer then it's crazy that their OS requires a connection to iTunes for any updates. :)

True enough. Which is why it's being addressed, which is excellent. I certainly agree that, if I were to buy an iPad, *that* would be my home computer, I shouldn't have to have an additional device.

Having said that I've had my iPhone for about a year now, I think I've connected it to iTunes about 4 times in total. But iTunes should disappear IMO, all iOS devices should be completely standalone and never need to connect to a PC, ever. Which I think is what Apple is now aiming for - at long last.

Remember that although Nokia did so OTA updates the majority of the OS updates still required installing the Nokia Suite software on a PC. But they were crap with coming out with updates anyway so most people didn't bother upgrading the firmware. My wife bought a new phone rather than update the firmware on her Nokia!

Dave B

7th June 2011, 09:40

Remember that although Nokia did so OTA updates the majority of the OS updates still required installing the Nokia Suite software on a PC. But they were crap with coming out with updates anyway so most people didn't bother upgrading the firmware. My wife bought a new phone rather than update the firmware on her Nokia!
Please don't remind me - even now I get nightmares and flashbacks to the afternoon I wasted trying to update a map on my E71. The Nokia Suite and the Ovi store were two of the biggest mistakes Nokia ever made and the primary reason why Symbian failed despite being a decent OS running on excellent hardware.

GridGirl

7th June 2011, 09:43

Mark, do you ever back your phone up then seeing as you've only connected it to a PC around 4 times in a year? Actually do people using other operating systems feel the need to back up their phones?

Mark

7th June 2011, 09:44

Please don't remind me - even now I get nightmares and flashbacks to the afternoon I wasted trying to update a map on my E71. The Nokia Suite and the Ovi store were two of the biggest mistakes Nokia ever made and the primary reason why Symbian failed despite being a decent OS running on excellent hardware.

Did Symbian fail? Possbily, but for many years it was at the cutting edge, sure it eventually got overtaken (in the manner that a Ferrari overtakes a guy on a bicycle), however the only issue was that they should have killed it off and moved on several years earlier rather than trying to flog the horse which was already long dead.

MrJan

7th June 2011, 09:45

I don't really back up my iPhone, I only sync when I want a a change of choons. I do back up my work phone (Nokia) but that's only because I have far more numbers on there that I want to keep hold of.

Mark

7th June 2011, 09:45

Mark, do you ever back your phone up then seeing as you've only connected it to a PC around 4 times in a year? Actually do people using other operating systems feel the need to back up their phones?

No, not really. But there isn't really much on my phone that *needs* backing up. All the Apps I can download again, my emails are on the servers not my phone. There's only really stuff like photos (the ones I want to keep I put on flickr anyway) and notes.

That was another good feature of Nokia's - backing up to memory card, but like all Symbian features, sometimes it worked, sometimes not.

Dave B

7th June 2011, 10:09

Actually do people using other operating systems feel the need to back up their phones?
All my contacts and emails are in t'cloud; my messages are automatically backed up by an app; my media is duplicated on my home PC (and backed up - twice!); and my apps are easily downloaded for free if required.

Did Symbian fail? Possbily, but for many years it was at the cutting edge, sure it eventually got overtaken (in the manner that a Ferrari overtakes a guy on a bicycle), however the only issue was that they should have killed it off and moved on several years earlier rather than trying to flog the horse which was already long dead.
As an OS probably not. What did for Symbian was the user experience. Apple showed that getting software to your phone could be a doddle, others followed but Nokia clung to the dog's dinner that was the Ovi Store. Had they put some effort into that and incentivised developers to write some mass-appeal software they could still have a significant market share instead of watching the bulk of their customers drift away to Apple, Android, RIM and W7 devices.

The partnership with Microsoft could yet save their bacon but there are no devices available yet, meanwhile nobody will develop for Symbian or buy the hardware because everybody knows it's being abandoned.

GridGirl

7th June 2011, 10:37

I thought that more people would back up their smartphones. I back mine up on a semi regular basis but this is mostly in preparation for rebuilds due to TomTom app updates. Apart from TomTom related rebuilds I've only been forced to reload a back up once which was about a month ago. I changed a password for something on my pc and the related app on my phone didn't like it one bit and caused an error. :s Having said that the only piece of information that I missed was a text message telling me the details of an ex work colleagues leaving do and was easily solved by ringing them up and asking them for the details again. :) Maybe I should download Dave text message backup app. :)

Dave B

7th June 2011, 11:28

Amid all the hype about the cloud, have we all missed this great new advance?

Mail

Your inbox is about to receive some great new features. Format text using bold, italic, or underlined fonts.
Apple - iOS 5 - See new features included in iOS 5. (http://www.apple.com/ios/ios5/features.html#more)

Wow. My Desire is going straight on eBay. Hell, in the bin. I simply must have an iPhone just for this! Bold text in emails... whatever will they think of next? All hail King Jobs!

:p

Daniel

7th June 2011, 11:29

The partnership with Microsoft could yet save their bacon but there are no devices available yet, meanwhile nobody will develop for Symbian or buy the hardware because everybody knows it's being abandoned.

Yep. I guess I can understand why Nokia want to wait till Mango till Q4 2001 as is now rumoured but they're going to by losing money rather badly in the meantime.

Daniel

7th June 2011, 11:30

Amid all the hype about the cloud, have we all missed this great new advance?

Apple - iOS 5 - See new features included in iOS 5. (http://www.apple.com/ios/ios5/features.html#more)

Wow. My Desire is going straight on eBay. Hell, in the bin. I simply must have an iPhone just for this! Bold text in emails... whatever will they think of next? All hail King Jobs!

:p

Can you list my WP7 along with it? I simply much have an iPhone also, with all the technological advances we're seeing I doubt my phone would be worth enough to justify paying the listing fee!!!!!!

MrJan

7th June 2011, 11:42

However as it's Apple no doubt it will turn out to be extremely limited and they won't let anyone with MS software use it...and you'll only be able to use it on the 5th Tuesday of the month.....when you're wearing a hat at a jaunty angle.

Not quite, but I won't be getting iCloud. iOS5 won't be coming to my crusty old 3G so that means no cloud for me, back to thinking about whether Spotify is actually worth it.

GridGirl

7th June 2011, 11:51

Can't wait until Autumn now. Dave and Daniel should expect to be sent thousands of spam emails from iPhones where people have set the signiture to sent from my iPhone in bold font. :p ;)

Daniel

7th June 2011, 12:06

Call me silly, but I don't really feel the cloud is as useful as it's being cracked up to be in terms of use on a mobile device. Whether it's an iCloud, a Cloudroid cloud or a Windows Phone Cloud. Things like contacts, OK I can see the point in that. But music? Files? How annoying is it going to be to try and listen to music over 3g? I can understand for instance, Jan Yeo finding it useful to use it between work at home where there is a certain level of guaranteed bandwidth, however most good IT departments will block that sort of service for good reasons :)

Mark

7th June 2011, 12:10

The main problem with all data hungry smartphones is getting a signal! It's fine if you're in a city centre or you've got a wifi signal. But IME much of the time you're struggling for any data signal at all, so the idea of viewing photos etc online isn't going to be a good experience.

Daniel

7th June 2011, 12:13

Dave B

7th June 2011, 12:15

Exactly. Even in city centres the coverage can be patchy. Then again I am with Three :D

I can sympathise: I'm with O2 and switching to them was a huge mistake. Their data service is truly dreadful.

Mark

7th June 2011, 12:16

But T-Mobile and Vodafone are also poor in my experience. So I think we can conclude they all suck!

Daniel

7th June 2011, 12:17

I can sympathise: I'm with O2 and switching to them was a huge mistake. Their data service is truly dreadful.

Oh and another thing which i meant to post before..... I remember your facebook post from last month complaining that you had NO signal with O2 at all for a time..... When that happens your data can't be accessed at all :mark:

ioan

7th June 2011, 19:00

Andrewmcm

7th June 2011, 22:26

Just out of interest, how many people here have experience of developing software?

Daniel

7th June 2011, 22:36

Just out of interest, how many people here have experience of developing software?

Not directly. But I did work alongside a team of developers, supporting and testing their application.

Andrew, do you not agree that more or less all of the features announced in iOS 5 have been done before?

airshifter

7th June 2011, 22:56

Have a look at this and tell me that the Bing visual search isn't cool :) Jump to about 3:30 and I think the biggest iOS or Android fan will admit that it's a pretty cool feature.

OP30F3ZxTmw

This is one of those things that will be as good as it is developed and fine tuned. If you can take a photo of a car and identify make, type, year, etc it might be great. But if it's only as good as the example they show it will IMO be only technology for the sake of saving a few key strokes.

You have a book. You photograph the book to find out where to get the book. It would seem to me you could either ask the owner of the book, or avoid photographing it in the book store. And even without the search you could snap a photo and easily look it up when you want.

As for the whole Cloud thing I don't see the upside much myself. It's a time and bandwidth burner mostly against for the sake of technology. Why stream music when you can just have it available without streaming it?

Daniel

7th June 2011, 23:08

This is one of those things that will be as good as it is developed and fine tuned. If you can take a photo of a car and identify make, type, year, etc it might be great. But if it's only as good as the example they show it will IMO be only technology for the sake of saving a few key strokes.

You have a book. You photograph the book to find out where to get the book. It would seem to me you could either ask the owner of the book, or avoid photographing it in the book store. And even without the search you could snap a photo and easily look it up when you want.

As for the whole Cloud thing I don't see the upside much myself. It's a time and bandwidth burner mostly against for the sake of technology. Why stream music when you can just have it available without streaming it?

Couldn't agree more about the Cloud, at least in terms of mobile useage. For use from home/work I can see the point kinda.

The point they are making about the visual search is that you can not only find where to buy stuff and how much it is, but actually purchase it if that company's app allows you to do so :) This is pretty nifty. I'd love to walk into a shop, see some DVD's I like which are ridiculously priced and while I'm there I could order them from the cheapest site that Bing lists :)

ioan

7th June 2011, 23:20

As for the whole Cloud thing I don't see the upside much myself. It's a time and bandwidth burner mostly against for the sake of technology. Why stream music when you can just have it available without streaming it?

You mean it would be expensive to stream music and images to mobile phones?
Well, it looks like you have found the reason for the iCloud! I am convinced that mobile service providers don't find it useless at all! :D

Mark

8th June 2011, 08:13

Andrew, do you not agree that more or less all of the features announced in iOS 5 have been done before?

So what if they have? Apple should implement them as they weren't the first?

Mark

8th June 2011, 08:28

On the subject of backups, on the feature list it says
iCloud can be used to backup your phone.

And I do like the OTA updates but you can bet the upgrade from 4 to 5 will still need to be done via USB!

IMO the biggest omission from the iPhone which even early Nokias had is a filestore accessible to all applications.

Mark

8th June 2011, 09:07

I find I do the majority of things on the iPhone sitting on the sofa :p . I've thought about getting an iPad but they are rather too big. An XL iPhone would be good :p

Andrewmcm

8th June 2011, 10:41

I haven't read about all of the features of iOS5 hence I can't really comment on what has and has not been done before.

I do recall Apple getting a lot of stick for no copy-and-paste in one of their previous iOS releases. Then I seem to recall that Windows Phone couldn't do copy-and-paste in its first release either. Perhaps Microsoft shouldn't have included copy-and-paste as it had been done before too.

Daniel

8th June 2011, 12:25

So what if they have? Apple should implement them as they weren't the first?

Of course, I'm merely saying this is hardly game changing stuff :)

MrJan

8th June 2011, 12:46

Of course, I'm merely saying this is hardly game changing stuff :)

Apple don't really do game changing, they do slick. As I've said before the main attraction is that it's Easy Learning Centre stuff. A bloke at work got an HTC Desire and I set it up for his e-mails and work wireless; it wasn't difficult but it definitely took me more time than when I first got my iPhone. I know they like to announce them in a 'song & dance' way, but is that really any different to the other technology firms? Look at the fuss that gets created around E3, even though half the time is jazzed up versions of what we've seen before.

I agree with others about Cloud on the move, for most of us it's just not viable/worthwhile, especially with the way that connecting to 3G and listening to music eat the battery on phones. Also in my neck of the woods the areas that you can get 3G are kinda limited. But the Cloud idea in general, implemented properly, could be a great resource. I quite often use e-mails as an alternative to carrying a memory stick (just e-mail something to yourself), but bringing in a bigger capacity for media etc. is a neat little toy. I know that I was annoyed when Amazon released their Cloud and limited it to the US market.

Daniel

8th June 2011, 12:56

Apple don't really do game changing, they do slick. As I've said before the main attraction is that it's Easy Learning Centre stuff. A bloke at work got an HTC Desire and I set it up for his e-mails and work wireless; it wasn't difficult but it definitely took me more time than when I first got my iPhone. I know they like to announce them in a 'song & dance' way, but is that really any different to the other technology firms? Look at the fuss that gets created around E3, even though half the time is jazzed up versions of what we've seen before.

I agree with others about Cloud on the move, for most of us it's just not viable/worthwhile, especially with the way that connecting to 3G and listening to music eat the battery on phones. Also in my neck of the woods the areas that you can get 3G are kinda limited. But the Cloud idea in general, implemented properly, could be a great resource. I quite often use e-mails as an alternative to carrying a memory stick (just e-mail something to yourself), but bringing in a bigger capacity for media etc. is a neat little toy. I know that I was annoyed when Amazon released their Cloud and limited it to the US market.

It's EARLY Learning Centre :D Caroline uses the skydrive functionality that comes with having a hotmail account. Personally it's not much use for me.

MrJan

8th June 2011, 13:08

It's EARLY Learning Centre :D Caroline uses the skydrive functionality that comes with having a hotmail account. Personally it's not much use for me.

That's the one, knew it didn't look right but couldn't be arsed to Google it and check :D

Mark

9th June 2011, 12:17

iTunes match seems like an interesting feature. For $25 a year it will scan all the music files you have in your library including ripped or even illegally downloaded MP3's, if it then finds a match with a song which is already on iTunes, it effectively marks that as purchased and so you can download it on whatever devices you have. All sounds great until you read that it's USA only!

Daniel

9th June 2011, 13:27

ioan

9th June 2011, 20:14

A chap I work with said this morning that he has 4 ipods and his ipad going off his itunes so his wife and kids can just use the same computer without it getting over complicated and expensive. The problem being with the new update it suggested something he downloaded some while ago by the name of 'Bouncing Boobies' was an option to download on the other devices linked on his itunes. His wife was not too impressed and his 9 year old son and daughter (twins obviously) asking what it was too was rather uncomfortable over the breakfast table. Ooops.

Wives! :rolleyes:

ioan

10th June 2011, 17:09

This ist my first ever post using my new galaxy tab. . :)
it will take time to get used to it.

Mark

10th June 2011, 18:02

Cool. Let us know how you get on with it!

ioan

12th June 2011, 20:47

Cool. Let us know how you get on with it!

Better then expected. For now i'm learning to use the various interesting apps and mostly.using it for browsing the web when away from home. Looks and feels great!
Got myself the book cover case,great item though very expensive.

14th June 2011, 06:25

Samsung and HTC are just copying what apple is doing. Ipad , i pod and i phone are the best in the market. I phone display glass is as hard as the helicopter's front glass, it's metal part is as harder as 30 times the plastic. It has the maximum resolution and the best retina display.Playing games is like a live experience.
________________________
Download Transformers: The Dark of The moon movie (http://www.moviesorb.com/transformers-the-dark-of-the-moon-movie-online) Watch The Smurfs Online (http://www.moviesorb.com/the-smurfs-movie-online)

Valve Bounce

16th June 2011, 13:26

Mark

16th June 2011, 13:59

Wrong thread.

Daniel

16th June 2011, 14:00

Here's a question: How does Windows 7 Starter compare with Windows 7 Home Premium? I ask because there is a netbook at Costco for around $350 with Windows 7 Starter. It is possible to find a better deal elsewhere, but I am waiting till Jan next year to buy a netbook for my next holiday.

Google (http://www.google.co.uk/#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=How+does+Windows+7+Starter+compare+with+Windows+ 7+Home+Premium&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=159a805a1cfc9e7f&biw=1920&bih=1105)

Valve Bounce

17th June 2011, 11:31

Dey Daniel, thanx! Just what I needed. Will study in more detail after Taggert. :)

Jag_Warrior

17th June 2011, 22:50

"Devastating" seems to about capture the Research in Motion conference call and the stock market's reaction. While the whole stock planet may have been texting each other over the likelihood of RIM turning in a stuck-pig ugly quarter, the numbers were actually worse than that. Despite repeated markdowns, sales of the Blackberry actually fell for the first time in 6 years. RIM dropped estimates for the current quarter from $1.05 to $0.75 and lowered their outlook for the year from $7.50 to a range of $5.25 - $6.00 (take the under). (http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/upside-rim-downfall-180919798.html)

And just today RIMM stock was down an astounding 21%, to close at $27.75. I believe that it was in the mid $40's when we first began talking about this a few weeks ago. Instead of getting angry at journalists (like during the BBC interview back in April), I think that the RIM CEO(s) need to finally accept that they have a very serious problem on their hands. And what's with having co-CEO's anyway? Who does that?! Clearly that "two heads are better than one" approach is not working (anymore).

Dave B

21st June 2011, 10:30

From: Nokia unveils N9 smartphone | Technology | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/jun/21/nokia-n9-launch-smartphone)

Nokia has launched a new smartphone, the N9, which uses its own Meego software, while chief executive Stephen Elop said he has "increased confidence" that the struggling Finnish mobile phone maker will launch its first Windows Phone device this year and ship in volume in 2012.

"Our primary smartphone strategy is to focus on the Windows phone," Elop, who moved to Nokia from Microsoft last year, said at a telecom conference in Singapore. However he provided few details on how he planned to arrest a slide in Nokia's market share.

The N9 is the first – and last – smartphone from Nokia to run Meego.

Any point?

Who in their right mind is going to buy a device which will have such miniscule support? Meego will be a dead duck, utterly nowhere compared to Android/iOS/RIM/W7. It'll go down in history with Laserdiscs, Philips digital cassettes and the N-Gage.

I despair for Nokia, I really do.

janneppi

21st June 2011, 14:57

Me thinks it's published for few reasons, first they they spent years on Maemo/Meego and releasing this was a small nod to the developers before they'll all get axed. It's also a technical shocase, a preview what kind of technology the windooze phones could get. Besides, it's probably at least another year before they begin to sell windows phones, something to get publicity is needed.
Elop has made his best to stomp this thing to the ground so it doesn't sell well, it's that good. :)

Mark

21st June 2011, 15:06

I pity the fool who buys the N9

Dave B

21st June 2011, 17:12

I find I do the majority of things on the iPhone sitting on the sofa :p . I've thought about getting an iPad but they are rather too big. An XL iPhone would be good :p

Almost every non-Apple tablet is a far more sensible 7" ;)

Back to clouds, and this is a perfect example of why I wouldn't use it for anything remotely sensitive:

Dropbox, the cloud-based file-hosting service, left all 25 million of its users' accounts open to all comers on Sunday when it accidentally turned off its password security system.

Cloud file-hosting service Dropbox leaves 25m users' accounts unlocked for four hours - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/internet/8589460/Cloud-file-hosting-service-Dropbox-leaves-25m-users-accounts-unlocked-for-four-hours.html)

Daniel

21st June 2011, 19:55

Janneppi, Nokia have said that they're on topic to release their first wp7 handsets late this year :)

Daniel

21st June 2011, 20:06

Whilst I wouldn't buy an n9, but I can understand why a Nokia fan would buy one

Daniel

21st June 2011, 21:13

The thing is that Nokia's aren't bad phones. The hardware you get with a Nokia is great and that's why people like them.

Daniel

21st June 2011, 21:26

Caroline has a 5800 and I agree that it's dismal. Mark my word however, the wp7 Nokia phones I'll be fantastic

CaptainRaiden

21st June 2011, 21:35

Got a Samsung Galaxy S in late 2010, and never been a happier man. Couldn't believe how easy it made everything, especially constantly checking 10 mailboxes. A handy tool for any business owner to have. I remember I used to have Thunderbird, Gmail and AOL mail all open all the time, what a mess.

Also, I don't care for any of the pads. Pointless to spend $1000+ on a tablet when you can have a kickass laptop for that money, which will do much, much more.

Now, looking with some very keen interest at the Samsung GALAXY S II (http://www.samsung.com/global/microsite/galaxys2/html/feature.html)

1.2 Ghz dual core processor + 1 GB RAM + 16 GB internal memory all in stock smartphone. :eek:

Then there's also the Motorola Atrix. The dual cores are raining down now. Who would have thunk it a few years ago? Dual core processors for phones. :)

Dave B

22nd June 2011, 09:54

Then there's also the Motorola Atrix. The dual cores are raining down now. Who would have thunk it a few years ago? Dual core processors for phones. :)
I've been hearing a lot of bad things about Motorola, mainly about their Motoblur overlay on Android devices. Can any users give first-hand experiences?

555-04Q2

22nd June 2011, 10:23

The thing is that Nokia's aren't bad phones. The hardware you get with a Nokia is great and that's why people like them.

Indeed :up: I currently have a Black Berry and it is a great phone :) But I have had over a dozen Nokias in my day and all have been great phones :up:

555-04Q2

22nd June 2011, 10:24

I've been hearing a lot of bad things about Motorola, mainly about their Motoblur overlay on Android devices. Can any users give first-hand experiences?

They make great two way radios, but can't make phones for sh!t :(

Daniel

22nd June 2011, 10:49

I've been hearing a lot of bad things about Motorola, mainly about their Motoblur overlay on Android devices. Can any users give first-hand experiences?

That's the one thing I like about owning a WP7 or buying another one is the fact that OEM's aren't allowed to do this. HTC have their Sense UI on WP7, but it's an app and it doesn't sit about the base OS :)

CaptainRaiden

22nd June 2011, 12:41

I've been hearing a lot of bad things about Motorola, mainly about their Motoblur overlay on Android devices. Can any users give first-hand experiences?

Oops, didn't know about this. I haven't personally used a Motorola Android phone yet. One of my friends was using a Droid X and was quite happy with it. The screen was awesome, and if I remember it also has the longest running battery in the android smartphones group, which is a good thing because of the way these things eat up their batteries especially if you have background and auto sync on. They say they're also making Motoblur less intrusive after complaints, so you never know.

CaptainRaiden

22nd June 2011, 12:47

They make great two way radios, but can't make phones for sh!t :(

Can't say I agree with that. I like Motorola phones, and have grown to hate Nokias over the years. Around 2005 I bought a Nokia 6670, kickass for that time, good camera, latest Symbian OS, did a lot of things, worked fine for 6 months and then went ape$hit. Had to go to the Nokia "service" center for about 10 times in six months, because every time they'd say it's fixed, and it would die again. They flashed the OS, replaced the battery, and finally exchanged it, same problem again. Finally got rid of it and bought a Motorola SLVR L7. The most hassle free phone I have ever owned. Wifey had a Motorazr which worked fine for half a decade without a squeak. I think they make solid phones, and have left Nokia behind, for now at least. Well, everybody is leaving Nokia behind as of now. :p

555-04Q2

22nd June 2011, 13:12

Can't say I agree with that. I like Motorola phones, and have grown to hate Nokias over the years. Around 2005 I bought a Nokia 6670, kickass for that time, good camera, latest Symbian OS, did a lot of things, worked fine for 6 months and then went ape$hit. Had to go to the Nokia "service" center for about 10 times in six months, because every time they'd say it's fixed, and it would die again. They flashed the OS, replaced the battery, and finally exchanged it, same problem again. Finally got rid of it and bought a Motorola SLVR L7. The most hassle free phone I have ever owned. Wifey had a Motorazr which worked fine for half a decade without a squeak. I think they make solid phones, and have left Nokia behind, for now at least. Well, everybody is leaving Nokia behind as of now. :p

I never had any problems with any of my Nokia's with over a dozen models and over a decade of use :)

The only Motorola I ever had was, to be polite, cr@p :(

Daniel

22nd June 2011, 18:41

Daniel

22nd June 2011, 18:48

This is SPARTAn!!!!!!

I'd love to see this do well and chip away at Apple's iTunes revenue and take away Apple's control of their own platform. :laugh:
Project Spartan: Facebook’s Hush-Hush Plan To Take On Apple On Their Own Turf: iOS (http://techcrunch.com/2011/06/15/facebook-project-spartan/)

airshifter

23rd June 2011, 05:23

Hey jag, Apple stock is doing well isn't it? DailyTech - Apple Stock Plunges as Investors "Think Different" (http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Stock+Plunges+as+Investors+Think+Different/article21955.htm)

If you think that's a crash, you haven't seen the cliff faces in the Microsoft charts that happen on a regular basis. If you chart them out one year, it looks more like a heart monitor than a stock charting.

Then again, if you chart back a year on each, you'll notice the profits for Apple and the losses for Microsoft.

Jag_Warrior

23rd June 2011, 10:07

Hey jag, Apple stock is doing well isn't it? DailyTech - Apple Stock Plunges as Investors "Think Different" (http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Stock+Plunges+as+Investors+Think+Different/article21955.htm)

Over the years, I've bought AAPL shares from the mid $30's to about $190/share. Except for those medical/legal bills last year, I haven't sold any of it for price reasons. My avg. per share cost basis is somewhere around $110/share. So yeah, in my world, AAPL is still doing well.
Really, really well. :s mokin:

AAPL has not performed so very well so far this year though - pretty much even money Year-to-Date. But it's hardly a stock or company that's in trouble, as is Nokia and RIM. And what we've had is not exactly a "plunge". It's amusing when tech sites try to write stories about the equity markets. But with that said, there are questions and concerns among investors, as detailed in the article you linked. But with the next quarterly earnings announcement, my guess is those who buy around current levels will be rewarded. I don't plan on buying any more shares right now, but I may buy some calls or sell some puts.

But before we bag too much on AAPL, let's compare AAPL vs MSFT vs the S&P 500 (a broad market measure). I think this will explain why I'm not all that concerned - but if I were a MSFT shareholder, I would not be happy. Apple is roughly tracking the market. MSFT (along with RIM and Nokia) is severely underperforming the market (and Apple).

Microsoft Corporation Stock Chart vs. Apple vs. S&P 500| MSFT Interactive Chart - Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=MSFT+Interactive#chart4 :s ymbol=msft;range=ytd;compare=aapl+^gspc;indicator= volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;lo gscale=on;source=undefined)

Daniel

23rd June 2011, 10:19

Jag_Warrior

23rd June 2011, 10:55

The problem with Apple is that they could disappear tomorrow and it would have little impact upon the market. Apple constantly needs to innovate to make money, all Microsoft needs to do is incrementally improve their products because they provide solutions for everything and not just a few shiny trinkets.

So Microsoft's new claim to fame is that they exist... and that's about it? Apple innovates and they experience growth. Google innovates and they experience growth. Cypress Semiconductor innovates and they experience growth. But as you say, Microsoft sort of just exists these days... churns out commodity products with little value added, and they make enough money to get by. Hardly a ringing endorsement, IMO. Investors don't pay very high P/E multiples for companies that do that. And as we can see over the past decade, anyone who has bought Microsoft has dead money on his hands. Even by your description, I could say the same thing about a utility or dog food company.

When Ballmer either quits/retires or gets fired (not likely, but his fan club on Wall St. is getting smaller by the day), maybe MSFT will get back on track. The latest rumor has Microsoft buying either Nokia or RIM. Unlike the Skype purchase, both these companies could be had on the cheap. But as a stock, I don't see MSFT going anywhere anytime soon. And if it gets back up to $28 again (and I don't see a good, fundamental reason to support that price level), I'll short that dog again... and ride it back down to $24-$25. I look for RIM to bounce back above $30 before I expect MSFT to even get a glimpse of $30. I just read a report that since introducing the Win Phone 7 platform, Microsoft has actually LOST marketshare, instead of gained. It might be a great phone platform. I don't know. But as with its recent history in so many consumer oriented areas, Microsoft's poor execution causes carriers and consumers to lose faith before they even try the thing out. It's just hard to get people to bet on a horse that has a tendency to trip and fall as soon as he gets out of the gate. I can't say that's an unfair statement on MSFT at this point. Maybe they'll get better. Time will tell. But no one is going to wait for them.

Like I keep saying, I'm not a fanboy or a hater of any of these companies - though some I admire or follow more than others. But basically, I just call 'em like I see 'em. On stocks, when I'm right, I'm right (Apple long, Bank of America, Nokia, Microsoft and RIM shorts :) ) and when I'm wrong, I'm wrong (Saks, Wendy's and AMD longs and Tivo short :( ).

DonJippo

23rd June 2011, 22:34

Mark my word however, the wp7 Nokia phones I'll be fantastic

YouTube - ‪Nokia Sea Ray : (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M1wC0pS_No&feature=player_embedded)

Daniel

23rd June 2011, 22:38

YouTube - ‪Nokia Sea Ray : (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M1wC0pS_No&feature=player_embedded)

I love that. What are your thoughts on it? Do you think it's a good move for Nokia?

Daniel

23rd June 2011, 23:07

YouTube - ‪Nokia Sea Ray : (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M1wC0pS_No&feature=player_embedded)

Just finished watching the video.....

What do people in Nokia think of Elop? He seems to talk very casually about the redundancies which are obviously going on. I can imagine that might annoy some people as he came from Microsoft and then started making changes which resulted in jobs being lost and a Microsoft operating system suddenly being the future direction of Nokia.

In my opinion the problem that Nokia had was that their good products were quietly brilliant. I had an E71 and the people at work with Blackberry's all remarked at how much better built it was and how much nicer it was to use than their Blackberry's. But Nokia barely advertised it here and I guess qwerty phones are a bit old hat now.......

DonJippo

23rd June 2011, 23:33

I love that. What are your thoughts on it? Do you think it's a good move for Nokia?

Time will tell but I believe with Microsoft ecosystem they are in much better position than with Symbian and can challenge Android, Apple is no real threat as you will see soon...

Daniel

23rd June 2011, 23:52

Time will tell but I believe with Microsoft ecosystem they are in much better position than with Symbian and can challenge Android, Apple is no real threat as you will see soon...

Well I've had mine since about a week after launch and I would never go back :) Like Jukka Kiiskinen points out, it's not about apps, all the important stuff like Facebook, email, twitter and cloud storage is integrated or is going to be integrated very soon. Integration > application. If the rumours of free turn by turn sat nav for all WP7 devices turns out to be false I can definitely see myself buying one of these and selling my Samsung Omnia 7 :D it's not a patch on the build quality of the E71 I had.....

Daniel

24th June 2011, 07:59

Out of interest Daniel what do you do with your phones that requires them to have such solid build quality? Do you drop them alot? :)

No :P I just like stuff that's well made.

Daniel

30th June 2011, 23:16

WP7 got Angry Birds yesterday! No one can say it's an incomplete OS now! :p

A nice (if slightly spoilt due to the ignorance of the guy doing the videos) video of the mango update. Quite a few things that he talks about as being new, are already in the OS and he simply doesn't know..... but anyhoo

Windows Phone 7.5 Mango in-depth preview (video) -- Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/27/windows-phone-7-5-mango-in-depth-preview-video/)

Looks like it'll be released in 4 months or so and I'm guessing that's when the Nokia devices will land as well.

Daniel

1st July 2011, 13:56

rah

7th July 2011, 06:13

Chart of the Day: Android dominates smartphone subscribers | DVICE (http://dvice.com/archives/2011/07/image-of-the-da-219.php)

Thought you might find this interesting. Its the smartphone trends in the US over the last 12 months. Looks like Google is killing it. Apple the only other one increasing.

Daniel

7th July 2011, 15:53

intheway

7th July 2011, 16:40

Apple lost a big one today though... trying to block Amazon from using "App Store".

Judge rejects Apple bid for injunction against Amazon (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/07/apple-amazon-ruling-idUSN1E76520W20110707)

Of course there's a further trial to be held later on that.

ioan

8th July 2011, 16:54

Good, every time Apple get's one over their nose is a step in the right direction.
It's called APPlication not APPleecation, isn't it?! ;)

ioan

8th July 2011, 16:56

another day another lawsuit from Apple......

DailyTech - Apple Lawyers Attempt Kill Shot on Samsung's Flagship Smartphones (http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Lawyers+Attempt+Kill+Shot+on+Samsungs+Flagsh ip+Smartphones/article22068.htm)

Seems Apple are suing Samsung for selling black rectangular phones, Apple have patented that.

Jobs really thinks that everyone is stupid out there, let's hope the judge is an open minded person and throws them out of court.

Judging by the number of lawsuits one would think that Apple have turned into a lawyer school.

Andrewmcm

16th July 2011, 12:42

Daniel

16th July 2011, 13:14

Don't see the point of a touch interface for a desktop. But no doubt things will go that way

Mark

16th July 2011, 16:25

Me neither. The only advantage of touch screens is portability. A mouse and keyboard is a far superior interface.

race aficionado

16th July 2011, 18:27

Me neither. The only advantage of touch screens is portability. A mouse and keyboard is a far superior interface.

Do any of you use a Pen?

I have used a Wacom tablet for ever and it's been ideal for me now that the mouse actions for a profession like mine (video editing) would leave me exhausted.

it's interesting how others will see me use it, give it a try and then throw the pen in the floor disgusted by how hard it seems. It really isn't and of course it takes some getting used to it.

And of course to each his own - I find the actions on a portable computer by dragging your finger on that small space to be tedious but that's because I have never owned a portable computer.

But back to the question, any pen users out there?

:s mokin:

Daniel

16th July 2011, 19:05

Do any of you use a Pen?

I have used a Wacom tablet for ever and it's been ideal for me now that the mouse actions for a profession like mine (video editing) would leave me exhausted.

it's interesting how others will see me use it, give it a try and then throw the pen in the floor disgusted by how hard it seems. It really isn't and of course it takes some getting used to it.

And of course to each his own - I find the actions on a portable computer by dragging your finger on that small space to be tedious but that's because I have never owned a portable computer.

But back to the question, any pen users out there?

:s mokin:

not used a pen before but I can imagine their use. I imagine it just requires patience as people are so used to using a mouse for mouse functions.

I too hate touchpads but only because I'm used to good mice and even a good touchpad is still crap in comparison.

Daniel

16th July 2011, 19:15

Microsoft (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/microsoft/8641170/Microsoft-plans-single-operating-system.html)

Interesting. I wonder where desktop PCs will find themselves in a few years' time if their interface is primarily touch based? The upcoming OS X Lion borrows fairly heavily from iOS so it does seem like OS vendors are migrating towards a unified interface for both 'traditional' and portable devices.

My god some of the comments on that story!!!!! These are either people who haven't used a PC for 5 years or the sorts of people who buy purely on price and therefore have a really crappy underspecced.

Incidently I'm getting an SSD delivered on Monday! Another windows install (grrrrr) but a welcome upgrade from a 36GB Western Digital Raptor which I've had since February 2004 and which I suspect is a little past its best, to a 120GB Corsair Force GT which will make for a MUCH quicker PC.

janneppi

18th July 2011, 19:03

Do any of you use a Pen?

:s mokin:
I'm currently thinking about getting a pen/tablet thingy for a mouse when using tv as monitor, a normal mouse wouldn't work well in that place. That or a wirelss keyboard with a touchpad. :)

Daniel

18th July 2011, 19:07

I'm currently thinking about getting a pen/tablet thingy for a mouse when using tv as monitor, a normal mouse wouldn't work well in that place. That or a wirelss keyboard with a touchpad. :)

Have you tried one of these?

http://images.maplin.co.uk/full/n18hc.jpg

We've got one for our bedroom PC and it works fine as a mouse.

janneppi

18th July 2011, 19:41

ARGH, another remote on the non-existing coffee table. :)

Daniel

18th July 2011, 19:43

ARGH, another remote on the non-existing coffee table. :)

Well surely better than a pen and tablet! :)

Jag_Warrior

18th July 2011, 20:31

Hey jag, Apple stock is doing well isn't it? DailyTech - Apple Stock Plunges as Investors "Think Different" (http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Stock+Plunges+as+Investors+Think+Different/article21955.htm)

I don't plan on buying any more shares right now, but I may buy some calls or sell some puts.

BTW, options expiration was this past Friday. :s mokin:

Daniel and I have been carrying on this playful banter of Apple vs. Microsoft for a long time now. I like Daniel and I rather enjoy it, as it makes me think and consider whether I'm acting/speaking on emotion or rational data. But from all the data I could gather, I saw no reason for a stock, that was set to beat earnings estimates on the next earnings call (shortly after options expiration on the 15th), to be trading as low as it was when I made that post - $320 or so? Luck or skill (luck more than skill, as everything happened to line up about the time Daniel made his post), buying the (cheap as dirt) out-of-the-money July $340 calls proved to be a nice move. I only wish options expiration had been today: AAPL is now sitting at all time high of $372/share, instead of the $365 last week.

Shares go up and down over time - 25 years of trading have taught me that much at least. AAPL may go up or AAPL may go down from here. But when the fundamentals are good (or great, in this case) and the technicals are on your side, BUY, BUY, BUY!!! :bounce: And never make a purchase or sale just because you're a fan or a foil of a company. Emotional investing seldom, if ever, works out in your favor. As speculative buys, I'm just waiting for the right time to buy shares or call options in both RIM and News Corp... and I have NO use for either company or their products/services.

race aficionado

18th July 2011, 22:33

Jag_Warrior

19th July 2011, 22:23

I have some friends visiting from my hometown in Colombia and they were amazed at the amount of people on the Apple Store that they tried to get into in Manhattan. It was packed and people were buying, not just checking out and testing. It has to be all the gazillion tourists that this great city attracts and also the value of the dollar - and of course the quality of the product ;)
This all sure helps your stock portfolio Jag.

:s mokin:

Your friends from Colombia sure must have bought a BUNCH of iPads! 9.25 million iPads sold in the quarter (consensus estimate was around 7 million, I believe), and that BLEW AWAY analysts' estimates. They also sold about 4 million more iPhones than analysts predicted. In the after-hours session, the stock is trading around $400/share (up about $20 from the 4PM close). 2009 and 2010 were great for trading/investing. This year has been VERY flat overall. But with this, Apple has saved the day.

Also, MSFT is getting pretty close to where I typically short it ($28/share +/-). And down around $25, I figure RIMM is probably worth a buy. But today belongs to the boys & girls over at AAPL. Great job, kids!!! :bounce: I hope all my new friends from Colombia got extra good service in the Apple Store - and return many, many times! :)

race aficionado

28th July 2011, 15:38

talking about the use of a pen - I still don't own a pad but a friend recommended this product for whenever I did purchase my iPad.

Does this interest anybody else?

Jot: Capacitive Touch Stylus by Adonit! by Kris Perpich (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/531383637/jot-capacitive-touch-stylus)

:s mokin:

DonJippo

15th August 2011, 13:17

Bye bye Motorola.

Daniel

15th August 2011, 13:23

Bye bye Motorola.

Wonder if it had anything to do with this -> Motorola is open to windows phone 7- The Inquirer (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CEoQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theinquirer.net%2Finquirer%2F news%2F2100670%2Fmotorola-windows-phone&ei=nA9JTuaPDsuWhQeg5ZikBg&usg=AFQjCNGukm_BmO-Un35EZDGBjs9l6JD1Rw)

DonJippo

15th August 2011, 13:45

Wonder if it had anything to do with this -> Motorola is open to windows phone 7- The Inquirer (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CEoQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theinquirer.net%2Finquirer%2F news%2F2100670%2Fmotorola-windows-phone&ei=nA9JTuaPDsuWhQeg5ZikBg&usg=AFQjCNGukm_BmO-Un35EZDGBjs9l6JD1Rw)

Nokia is up to 10% in Helsinki after news about Motorola & Google.

Daniel

15th August 2011, 14:11

Nokia is up to 10% in Helsinki after news about Motorola & Google.

Interesting. Some are suggesting they're just buying up Motorola for patents. Patent trolling seems a good way to make money these days :rolleyes:

ioan

15th August 2011, 20:01

Bye bye Motorola.

Or maybe the start of bye bye Apple?!

Daniel

15th August 2011, 20:04

I can't think why. Motorola phones have awful software and have slipped behind in the technology race in recent years. I've owned a couple of Motorola's and although they were stylish at the time, they weren't as good as Nokia's 5 or 6 years ago. I can't say I was impressed when I tried out Motorola's attempt at an android phone a few months back either. It would be nice if they made a serious attack on the market once again however.

You should have a look at the way patents are being used at the moment by major companies...... it's disgusting

Daniel

15th August 2011, 20:16

I've taken out several patents myself and can understand the frustration. Apple are one of the worst for that and sue any company that makes a phone that resembles theirs which I find amazing, even if they lose more often than they win.

I think if people come up with a genuinely good idea which is unique then it deserves protection, but Apple patenting the physical looks of their product is just ridiculous and SURELY there must be some corruption going on behind the scenes for such ridiculous patents to be granted. Car makers copy stuff all the time and as long as it's not actually being passed off as the original it's all good.

Just out of curiosity Henners, care to share the ideas which you patented?

Mark

15th August 2011, 20:21

ioan

15th August 2011, 20:23

You should have a look at the way patents are being used at the moment by major companies...... it's disgusting

Exactly! :up:

> For Apple, No Tactic Is Too Sneaky When It Comes to Defending the iPad | BNET (http://www.bnet.com/blog/technology-business/for-apple-no-tactic-is-too-sneaky-when-it-comes-to-defending-the-ipad/12247?tag=cbsnewsSectionContent.10)

ioan

15th August 2011, 20:27

One of them was a locking mechanism for a boat mooring rope that stopped thieves stealing your yacht from marina's. The others have not been used as of yet but have patents pending on them. I can't really give details of what they are as I have signed disclosure agreements with my employers. :)

I thought these are called non-disclosure agreements, or confidentiality agreements! ;)

ioan

15th August 2011, 20:28

Quite so. I mean the design of the iPad for example is good because it's entirely functional and anyone designing a tablet would come up with a similar design not because they've copied but because it's an optimal arrangement in the first place.

The first company who made a rectangular screen should sue the crap out of Apple! :D

Daniel

15th August 2011, 20:31

Quite so. I mean the design of the iPad for example is good because it's entirely functional and anyone designing a tablet would come up with a similar design not because they've copied but because it's an optimal arrangement in the first place.

Exactly. It's like patenting having a steering wheel, gear shift, clutch, accellerator and brake pedals as controls for a car.

It's just not something which should be something you're able to patent.

For instance Fiat's multiair technology which uses hydraulically operated valves is something which Fiat have developed at great cost and which has obvious practical uses and is unique not simply because of the shape of one particular part of it like an iPad...... this sort of thing should be rewarded with patents and in this way we'll encourage genuine creativity and advancement and not patent trolling. The sheer amont of patents which I've seen contested in court and having a judgement in favour of the patent holder when there has been clear prior art is freaking ridiculous and the courts should be ashamed of themselves.

How to get rich.
Patent some idea which you don't have the expertise, intelligence, inclination or money to develop into something useful.
Wait till it becomes a miniscule part of some successful product.
SUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

or

Buy shedloads of patents like they're going out of fashion, doesn't matter if they're obvious and not worthy of being patents
Wait till they become a miniscule part of some successful product.
SUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ioan

15th August 2011, 20:31

You must have deleted the 'non' when you quoted me ioan.. :p

Nope! But you're getting better at correcting your mistakes. :up:

Daniel

15th August 2011, 20:32

One of them was a locking mechanism for a boat mooring rope that stopped thieves stealing your yacht from marina's. The others have not been used as of yet but have patents pending on them. I can't really give details of what they are as I have signed non disclosure agreements with my employers. :)

Interesting :)

ioan

15th August 2011, 20:34

We live in a rotten world. Anyone who thinks it isn't the case feel free to make a point against it.

DonJippo

15th August 2011, 20:34

Or maybe the start of bye bye Apple?!

Like I said it earlier Apple is small potatoes or apples...the real fight will be between Android and Windows.

Daniel

15th August 2011, 20:34

I should also mention that the LG Prada is black and rectangular and predates the iPhone design.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada_(KE850)

But still who cares about prior art......

Henners, can you send me some details of your boat mooring thing? I want to do the same thing but yellow and then patent it.

ioan

15th August 2011, 20:37

Like I said it earlier Apple is small potatoes or apples...the real fight will be between Android and Windows.

Or maybe they will just share the market in a way both find it OK as none of them is perfect anyway and they rather complement each other.

Daniel

15th August 2011, 20:39

I doubt it would fit a Fiat 500 mate, and it had yellow on it I'm afraid...... I might seek advice from Apple and sue you for simply considering it. I'm sure I have a case? :p :

Well with the courts here I'm sure I have a case against you and I've never even considered designing any anti-theft devices for boats :)

ioan

15th August 2011, 20:40

Henners, can you send me some details of your boat mooring thing? I want to do the same thing but yellow and then patent it.

That's not the way it's done.
You have to go to court and tell them that you have already thought about such system many years ago, no one will care if you even know how henners' companies' system looks or works, that's just technicalities and do not make any difference over the mere idea of IP infringement.

Daniel

15th August 2011, 20:43

That's not the way it's done.
You have to go to court and tell them that you have already thought about such system many years ago, no one will care if you even know how henners' companies' system looks or works, that's just technicalities and do not make any difference over the mere idea of IP infringement.

Well then tell me how the hell Apple have got courts here to ban Samsung from selling a product which looks like an Apple product which looks like an LG product which went to market before Apple's product and which Apple NEVER challenged?

If the Galaxy Tab infringes upong Apple's patent then so did the LG Prada and everyone knows that if you don't protect your patent then your patent is worthless. For Henners' patent to stand up, if someone infringes upon it, he has to make an attempt to protect it.

ioan

15th August 2011, 20:49

Well then tell me how the hell Apple have got courts here to ban Samsung from selling a product which looks like an Apple product which looks like an LG product which went to market before Apple's product and which Apple NEVER challenged?

If the Galaxy Tab infringes upong Apple's patent then so did the LG Prada and everyone knows that if you don't protect your patent then your patent is worthless. For Henners' patent to stand up, if someone infringes upon it, he has to make an attempt to protect it.

I guess you didn't read the link I posted on the previous page.
Here: For Apple, No Tactic Is Too Sneaky When It Comes to Defending the iPad | BNET (http://www.bnet.com/blog/technology-business/for-apple-no-tactic-is-too-sneaky-when-it-comes-to-defending-the-ipad/12247?tag=cbsnewsSectionContent.10)

Finding the right court room seems to be the most important. Maybe the judge is an Apple fan, it wouldn't surprise me at all.

ioan

15th August 2011, 20:55

So are you, we are improving together!!.. :p :up:

You did delete part of my quote however! Now I'll think about suing you! ;)

Jag_Warrior

15th August 2011, 20:56

Like I said it earlier Apple is small potatoes or apples...the real fight will be between Android and Windows.

You mean Android vs. Windows Phone? Microsoft has actually lost even more marketshare since WP7 was released. It's currently just an also-ran mobile OS. The mobile OS fight will continue to be between the big boys: Android, iOS and Blackberry. WebOS and WP7 are just bit players.

ioan

15th August 2011, 20:59

ioan

15th August 2011, 21:05

I could accuse you of the same thing, so we've got no choice but to see each other in court my friend. Bring it on lol.

My lawyer will send you a PM with the sentence tomorrow morning after he visits a certain German Courtroom! :p ;)

Daniel

15th August 2011, 21:09

I'll bring my solicitor, my HTC that looks a little like an iphone, the laptop I am writing this on, and a £250,000 patent I took out on the sentence I am accusing you of altering. :eek:

I'm sure I posted and patented something VERY similar previously. I'll sell you the patent for that for £50 though.

ioan

15th August 2011, 21:13

I'll bring my solicitor, my HTC that looks a little like an iphone, the laptop I am writing this on, and a £250,000 patent I took out on the sentence I am accusing you of altering. :eek:

Well, I hate to brake it to you but I have already patented the suing process and the patenting process so I think I am 2 steps ahead! ;)

PS: Isn't it fun to play like this? man I should have become a lawyer! :rotflmao:

Daniel

15th August 2011, 21:14

You mean Android vs. Windows Phone? Microsoft has actually lost even more marketshare since WP7 was released. It's currently just an also-ran mobile OS. The mobile OS fight will continue to be between the big boys: Android, iOS and Blackberry. WebOS and WP7 are just bit players.

I'm sorry but that's a very simplified view of it. Sure Apple stole a march on everyone, but they've done little else other than add features which others already had since before the original iPhone was launched......

A centralised App store is the only real innovation that Apple brought to the market and even that wasn't an innovation per se, just something they marketed well and placed restrictions on which ended up being a bonus for the customer.

Mom said it well with this

JSHusKDYgP0

Jag_Warrior

15th August 2011, 21:16

Maybe it will be Android vs WP8 or WP9 or 10 or 11?! All this while Apple will be busy defending rectangle and circle IP in court rooms against Aristotle and Pitagora.

That's possible, though I don't see it as likely. Why, out of the blue, would MSFT all of a sudden get its mobile strategy right, when all its done up to this point is get it wrong? It could happen. Just as the lawsuits brought by Apple and Microsoft against Google could cripple Android - seen by most as the reason Google is buying Motorola Mobility. Google needs patents like a drowning man needs air. Instead of wasting money on Skype, Microsoft should have probably bought Motorola (IMO).

They're all suing each other. It's not one or two suing one or two. Everybody is getting "lawyered up".

Daniel

15th August 2011, 21:21

That's possible, though I don't see it as likely. Why, out of the blue, would MSFT all of a sudden get its mobile strategy right, when all its done up to this point is get it wrong? It could happen. Just as the lawsuits brought by Apple and Microsoft against Google could cripple Android - seen by most as the reason Google is buying Motorola Mobility. Google needs patents like a drowning man needs air. Instead of wasting money on Skype, Microsoft should have probably bought Motorola (IMO).

They're all suing each other. It's not one or two suing one or two. Everybody is getting "lawyered up".

Perhaps Microsoft actually sees value in Skype other than in paying just to have google not have Skype....

ioan

15th August 2011, 21:23

Daniel

15th August 2011, 22:17

Every now and then MSFT does get some things right otherwise they wouldn't be what they are. And together with a Nokia team that has knowledge of what mobility solutions should be like they might pull a rabbit again.

I still think that the market is big enough for all of them but the one that will do best is the one who offers an open and thus easily compatible OS.

The way I look at it is like this. If tomorrow Apple announced that they were shutting up shop and no longer making anything, what would happen? People would merely move on to other stuff. If Microsoft announced they weren't making OS's for business or office packages for business or Server OS's for business then the world would quickly grind to a halt. If RIM shut up shop there would be a lot of problems.

Apple's problem is that they've got to be popular to really sell lots of their product. The moment Apple products become uncool or someone brings out something which gets even more hype then Apple will be kicked out of bed faster than a thing that kicks stuff out of bed fast. Will that be in a years time? 2 years time? 5 years time? Who knows, but it won't last forever.

ioan

15th August 2011, 23:21

The way I look at it is like this. If tomorrow Apple announced that they were shutting up shop and no longer making anything, what would happen? People would merely move on to other stuff. If Microsoft announced they weren't making OS's for business or office packages for business or Server OS's for business then the world would quickly grind to a halt. If RIM shut up shop there would be a lot of problems.

Apple's problem is that they've got to be popular to really sell lots of their product. The moment Apple products become uncool or someone brings out something which gets even more hype then Apple will be kicked out of bed faster than a thing that kicks stuff out of bed fast. Will that be in a years time? 2 years time? 5 years time? Who knows, but it won't last forever.

Your pretty much right about MSFT and RIM, however I do believe that Apple will survive, won't be a threat to MSFT though, as they did for many decades due to their fanatic followers.

Jag_Warrior

16th August 2011, 10:14

I'm sorry but that's a very simplified view of it. Sure Apple stole a march on everyone, but they've done little else other than add features which others already had since before the original iPhone was launched......

A centralised App store is the only real innovation that Apple brought to the market and even that wasn't an innovation per se, just something they marketed well and placed restrictions on which ended up being a bonus for the customer.

Simplified or not, those are the facts as they currently stand. Things may change. And as I've said previously, I can't predict that - no one can. But unless and until Microsoft develops a mobile strategy that consumers are attracted to, they will likely continue to be where they are now. Whether it's based on WP8 or some new Nokia phones, it is not going to change overnight.

As for this continuation of what the world would be like if Apple shut down vs. if Microsoft shut down... to be honest, I've never read that scenario as part of an analyst's report. I know of no one who values a corporation or stock shares based on anything like that.

Look guys, this became (from a U.S. perspective) a Chevy vs. Ford argument a long time ago. In the U.K. or Europe I'm not sure what car brands compete with one another. But again I'll say, people should buy whatever device or brand that best suits their needs. Plain & simple. These fanboy arguments are fun (for awhile) but when I buy a device, I buy that which best suits my needs. I'm not married to a brand. And when I buy (or short sell) a stock, it is based on the best fundamental and technical data that I have access to. If & when MSFT looks like a buy, I'll buy it. I have before. And if AAPL ever looks like a sell, I'll sell it. Though I have preferences, I don't (seem to) have the same emotional ties or disdain that some of you fellows seem to have.

If you like WP7 phones, buy one. If you like Androids, buy one. If you like iOS devices, buy one. Why does it bother some of you that not everybody else in the world likes (or hates) the same things you do? Sorry, but I just don't get that. Or maybe I do: Chevy vs. Ford (Mrs. A's classroom, circa 1974). So yeah, I get it. I'm just getting a bit long in the tooth to rehash it day after day. :dozey:

Still long AAPL. Still happy. Shorted MSFT at $28.25, covered at 24.70 (call it the clockwork trade). Should have bought RIMM at $23+/-, but got nervous about the market gyrations. Prediction for the day: AAPL will hit $425 before MSFT sees $28. That's a touch over 10% on both stocks. But unless the market is soaring, if MSFT does hit $28 again, I'll short it again. I see nothing in its fundamentals to validate a sustained price above $28. Given Google's latest move, I just don't see another (major) player in mobile OS's leaping forward. IMO, it will be, as I said, Android, iOS and Blackberry for the foreseeable future. But we shall see...

DonJippo

16th August 2011, 10:16

Interesting. Some are suggesting they're just buying up Motorola for patents.

All 17000 of them with these patents they can better protect Android against Microsoft and Apple.

Daniel

16th August 2011, 11:16

Simplified or not, those are the facts as they currently stand. Things may change. And as I've said previously, I can't predict that - no one can. But unless and until Microsoft develops a mobile strategy that consumers are attracted to, they will likely continue to be where they are now. Whether it's based on WP8 or some new Nokia phones, it is not going to change overnight.

As for this continuation of what the world would be like if Apple shut down vs. if Microsoft shut down... to be honest, I've never read that scenario as part of an analyst's report. I know of no one who values a corporation or stock shares based on anything like that.

Look guys, this became (from a U.S. perspective) a Chevy vs. Ford argument a long time ago. In the U.K. or Europe I'm not sure what car brands compete with one another. But again I'll say, people should buy whatever device or brand that best suits their needs. Plain & simple. These fanboy arguments are fun (for awhile) but when I buy a device, I buy that which best suits my needs. I'm not married to a brand. And when I buy (or short sell) a stock, it is based on the best fundamental and technical data that I have access to. If & when MSFT looks like a buy, I'll buy it. I have before. And if AAPL ever looks like a sell, I'll sell it. Though I have preferences, I don't (seem to) have the same emotional ties or disdain that some of you fellows seem to have.

If you like WP7 phones, buy one. If you like Androids, buy one. If you like iOS devices, buy one. Why does it bother some of you that not everybody else in the world likes (or hates) the same things you do? Sorry, but I just don't get that. Or maybe I do: Chevy vs. Ford (Mrs. A's classroom, circa 1974). So yeah, I get it. I'm just getting a bit long in the tooth to rehash it day after day. :dozey:

Still long AAPL. Still happy. Shorted MSFT at $28.25, covered at 24.70 (call it the clockwork trade). Should have bought RIMM at $23+/-, but got nervous about the market gyrations. Prediction for the day: AAPL will hit $425 before MSFT sees $28. That's a touch over 10% on both stocks. But unless the market is soaring, if MSFT does hit $28 again, I'll short it again. I see nothing in its fundamentals to validate a sustained price above $28. Given Google's latest move, I just don't see another (major) player in mobile OS's leaping forward. IMO, it will be, as I said, Android, iOS and Blackberry for the foreseeable future. But we shall see...

One of the points I would like to make is that people like yourselves don't seem to care what companies like Apple do to the competition as long as your stock goes up.

You've also missed out that Nokia has announced that they're going to more or less get rid of Symbian on all but the most basic of smartphones and entirely in the USA. Therefore Nokia's marketshare will = WP7 marketshare and Nokia's markesthare at the moment is a lot.......

Nokia to retire Symbian in North America, going all-in on Windows Phone -- Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/09/nokia-to-retire-symbian-in-north-america-going-all-in-on-window/)

Then consider that your Samsung's and HTC's might not be particularly happy with Google jumping into bed with Motorola as this will almost certainly mean special treatment for Motorola handsets......

Google's Moto Mobility deal may have had Microsoft roots, comes with $2.5 billion break-up fee -- Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/15/googles-moto-mobility-deal-may-have-had-microsoft-roots-comes/)

Mango is on the way which will more or less bring WP7 up to the same level as the other mobile OS's are at.

DonJippo

16th August 2011, 12:00

You've also missed out that Nokia has announced that they're going to more or less get rid of Symbian on all but the most basic of smartphones and entirely in the USA. Therefore Nokia's marketshare will = WP7 marketshare and Nokia's markesthare at the moment is a lot.......

Don't know how big Nokia will be when they finally get their Windows phones out with CEO like Elop ...

Communities Dominate Brands: Coining Term: "Elop Effect" when you combine Osborne Effect and Ratner Effect (http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2011/08/coining-term-elop-effect-when-you-combine-osborne-effect-and-ratner-effect.html)

Daniel

16th August 2011, 12:39

Don't know how big Nokia will be when they finally get their Windows phones out with CEO like Elop ...

Communities Dominate Brands: Coining Term: "Elop Effect" when you combine Osborne Effect and Ratner Effect (http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2011/08/coining-term-elop-effect-when-you-combine-osborne-effect-and-ratner-effect.html)

All very true, why they haven't had product out yet I simply can't fathom. Saying all of your current products are obselete and then not announcing new product immediately is dumb.

Malbec

16th August 2011, 12:55

Apple's problem is that they've got to be popular to really sell lots of their product. The moment Apple products become uncool or someone brings out something which gets even more hype then Apple will be kicked out of bed faster than a thing that kicks stuff out of bed fast. Will that be in a years time? 2 years time? 5 years time? Who knows, but it won't last forever.

The thing is Apple have annexed entire swathes of the market. I know a lot of non-technological people for whom smartphone = iPhone, for them getting another brand wasn't on the menu. Likewise before that for many people portable MP3 player = iPod. Big brands like Sony have tried and barely left a mark on the same market despite producing similar or better products.

Like someone else said with smartphones its likely that you'll end up locked into whichever brand you get first. I've got an android phone and I stand to lose a lot of stuff if I switch to any other format. The same is true for any other mobile OS.

Apple is using their iPod and iPhone to introduce new users to their real moneymakers, the desk and laptops. Its a strategy that is working.

Geeks like you may well say that X or Y is better but the functionality and cross compatibility of Apple products makes it an attractive brand even though other individual competitors may outperform them.

Daniel

16th August 2011, 15:29

The thing is Apple have annexed entire swathes of the market. I know a lot of non-technological people for whom smartphone = iPhone, for them getting another brand wasn't on the menu. Likewise before that for many people portable MP3 player = iPod. Big brands like Sony have tried and barely left a mark on the same market despite producing similar or better products.

Like someone else said with smartphones its likely that you'll end up locked into whichever brand you get first. I've got an android phone and I stand to lose a lot of stuff if I switch to any other format. The same is true for any other mobile OS.

Apple is using their iPod and iPhone to introduce new users to their real moneymakers, the desk and laptops. Its a strategy that is working.

Geeks like you may well say that X or Y is better but the functionality and cross compatibility of Apple products makes it an attractive brand even though other individual competitors may outperform them.

To be honest Apple probably makes FAR more from selling iPhones and iPads than Mac's. IIRC the revenue from iPod's and iPhone's combined is roughly double that which they get from Mac's

Daniel

16th August 2011, 16:22

Did Apple alter photos of the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 in its injunction filing? -- Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/15/did-apple-alter-photos-of-the-samsung-galaxy-tab-10-1-in-its-inj/)
Yet more dodgyness from Apple......

Jag_Warrior

16th August 2011, 20:20

One of the points I would like to make is that people like yourselves don't seem to care what companies like Apple do to the competition as long as your stock goes up.

Given that you are a huge Microsoft fan, are you sure you want to open that can of worms? More than any company since probably Standard Oil, Microsoft is featured in so many anti-trust and anti-competitive case law studies at major law schools around the country. Have you read Paul Allen's book, where he details how Bill Gates conspired with Steve Ballmer to marginalize (steal) his interest in MSFT... WHILE HE WAS FIGHTING FOR HIS LIFE BATTLING CANCER???!!! Apple would have to work overtime and hire someone to study Microsoft's dusty, old Book of Dirty Tricks and Back Stabbing just to match what they did to Netscape and a great many others. How are you able to criticize Apple and yet ignore the laundry list of things that Microsoft has done over the years??? Chevy vs. Ford? Yeah, Chevy vs. Ford. :D

But in answer to your question, that's essentially correct. I owned Microsoft at various times, while the charges of their anti-competitive practices were making the news. The sole purpose of a (for profit) corporation is to enhance shareholder wealth. That's it. So any (for profit) corporation which isn't doing that is failing in its mission.

If you want to be at all successful with trading or investing, you should stick with a methodology which is based on quantitative measures and avoid making decisions based on qualitatives as much as possible. P/E ratios, book value, whether or not a company beats avg. analysts' estimates, etc., matter to me on the fundamental side and RSI, stochastics, etc., matter to me on the technical side. Unless the company is facing criminal charges over something it's done, I have no way of quantifying whether a company is nice or mean, good or bad. A company that deals in stolen Holocaust gold and is run by a Colombian cocaine kingpin, who gouges out the eyes of baby seals in his spare time, no, I wouldn't buy their shares, even if earnings were growing 25% year over year.

But lawsuits are how modern companies settle disputes. In the Roman collegia days, one company would send its ex-Legionaries over to plunge daggers into the ex-Legionaries of the other company and the best knives would win. Thankfully, we've come a long way since then. Or at least the modern way is less bloody.

You've also missed out that Nokia has announced that they're going to more or less get rid of Symbian on all but the most basic of smartphones and entirely in the USA. Therefore Nokia's marketshare will = WP7 marketshare and Nokia's markesthare at the moment is a lot.......

Not at all. That's been widely known and reported for quite some time. And the market has greeted that news with a giant yawn. Nokia has been plagued with severe execution problems for several years. And until the market sees them execute, nothing is a given. Think about it. If people are not buying WP7 and people are not buying Nokia smartphones... how would you add two failures and get a success? I think adding in Nokia will help the WP7 platform, but only if they get it right. An increasing amount of Nokia's business is in cheaper, low margin "dumb phones" in developing countries. That will do nothing for Microsoft or Nokia.

I'm not predicting failure. I'm simply saying that it's not an obvious win.

Then consider that your Samsung's and HTC's might not be particularly happy with Google jumping into bed with Motorola as this will almost certainly mean special treatment for Motorola handsets......

This is a distinct possibility. But a J.P. Morgan analyst believes that Google may shut down device production at Motorola Mobility and just milk the patents, so as not to offend Samsung, HTC and the others. Also note that Nokia is up on speculation that Google's rich offer for Motorola makes them a decent takeover candidate now. If someone else (even private equity) makes a play for Nokia, I wonder if Microsoft would launch a rival bid?

Lots of possibilities. I have no idea how it might play out. But it is fun to watch.

Mango is on the way which will more or less bring WP7 up to the same level as the other mobile OS's are at.

I honestly haven't heard or read anything really bad about the current version of WP7. It seems that the overall strategy, including the marketing (a Microsoft sore spot in many areas), is more the reason for their lack of success. Will Mango make a difference? I don't know. But it seems (from reviews) that WP7 is a better mobile OS than 6.5, yet WP7 has led to a loss of market share vs. 6.5. If mango is properly featured, then it might help. But if they sit on their hands too long, Apple, Google, HP and RIM will have come up with their own shiny new toys to catch people's attention.

Daniel

18th August 2011, 08:58

Good points. I agree Microsoft certainly lead the stakes in squeezing rival companies with their fair share of dirty tricks over the likes of Apple. Its a savage business and you'd have to be mental to think one is more credible than the other IMO. :)

Tbh Microsoft has been a lot better of recent with this.

Editorial: Google, Microsoft and the incredible shifting mobile landscape -- Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/17/editorial-google-microsoft-and-the-incredible-shifting-mobile/)
Not sure what this graph actually indicates tbh. One moment you're hearing WP7 has nearly no share now it has 9% (combined with WM! of course)? Tbh there's something very weird about the statistics that we seem to see.....
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/08/nielsen-smartphone-marketshare.jpg (http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/17/editorial-google-microsoft-and-the-incredible-shifting-mobile/)

Interesting to see the suggestions of Microsoft taking over RIM or HTC, though I'm sure the regulators would have puppies if they tried to do that. If they did buy RIM and had BBM integrated with WP7....... *strokes chin* Interesting times.

Well at least there would be a market for it with rioters :D

Mark

18th August 2011, 10:03

Of all those possibilities I could see MS buying HTC and rebranding them as Microsoft phones. But where does that leave Nokia?

Daniel

18th August 2011, 10:13

Of all those possibilities I could see MS buying HTC and rebranding them as Microsoft phones. But where does that leave Nokia?

Well a small piece of a big pie is better than a big piece of a pie that's constantly getting smaller.

Malbec

18th August 2011, 10:14

Of all those possibilities I could see MS buying HTC and rebranding them as Microsoft phones. But where does that leave Nokia?

If HTC were bought by Microsoft though that would negate one of their biggest strengths, their ability to flit between OS's depending on which one is currently strongest.

As for Motorola, I've been to a couple of management courses now where their mobile phone section has been used as a specific example of the vicious cycle of failure. I wouldn't have thought their mobile phone design and manufacturing is as valuable as their patents. It wouldn't surprise me if google shut down manufacturing especially as entering into the hardware market entails a significant change in direction and increased risk for them.

Daniel

18th August 2011, 10:33

If HTC were bought by Microsoft though that would negate one of their biggest strengths, their ability to flit between OS's depending on which one is currently strongest.

As for Motorola, I've been to a couple of management courses now where their mobile phone section has been used as a specific example of the vicious cycle of failure. I wouldn't have thought their mobile phone design and manufacturing is as valuable as their patents. It wouldn't surprise me if google shut down manufacturing especially as entering into the hardware market entails a significant change in direction and increased risk for them.
It's all about the patents really.

Daniel

18th August 2011, 11:54

ioan

18th August 2011, 18:11

It gets more and more ridiculous every day.......

DailyTech - Kodak's Patents Maybe be Worth Five Times the Company's Market Cap. (http://www.dailytech.com/Kodaks+Patents+Maybe+be+Worth+Five+Times+the+Compa nys+Market+Cap/article22469.htm)

Ridiculous? Not really, knowledge and the rights to it have always been worth a lot more then anything else, it just that nowadays there is a lot of noise about smartphone technology patents due to Apple's stupid court addiction.

Daniel

19th August 2011, 10:56

Well HP's killing off WebOS

Editorial: Engadget on the death of HP's webOS devices -- Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/18/editorial-engadget-on-hps-denial-of-webos-operations/)

Love this quote from the comments

Launch Pre 3 in the UK on August 17.

Announce that you're pulling out of the smartphone business on August 18.

Problem officer?

Daniel

19th August 2011, 11:03

Ridiculous? Not really, knowledge and the rights to it have always been worth a lot more then anything else, it just that nowadays there is a lot of noise about smartphone technology patents due to Apple's stupid court addiction.

I know, but these days you can patent anything and then sue for it even if the idea is just ridiculously basic.

Genuine inventions and innovations should be protected, but not ridculous stuff like the look of a product.

This made me giggle anyhoo.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/293680_10150268037079366_560474365_7767415_6357682 _n.jpg

Daniel

19th August 2011, 13:59

Some trash talking from Elop

DailyTech - Nokia Chief Warns Android Phonemakers Should "Watch Out" (http://www.dailytech.com/Nokia+Chief+Warns+Android+Phonemakers+Should+Watch +Out/article22479.htm)

This can either go two ways, Google starts releasing its own phones through Motorola and pisses Samsung and HTC off, or it just uses the patents to defend itself and all is well. Personally I don't see Google making their own phones, but if Samsung and HTC would be stupid to not be just a little worried right now.

ioan

19th August 2011, 14:44

I know, but these days you can patent anything and then sue for it even if the idea is just ridiculously basic.

Genuine inventions and innovations should be protected, but not ridculous stuff like the look of a product.

And that's a big problem indeed, but I think isn't the biggest problem of the rotten society we are living in.

Dave B

3rd September 2011, 17:03

I might order myself one of these for a giggle:

'HiPhone 5', fake of Apple (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/8693525/HiPhone-5-fake-of-Apples-latest-iPhone-on-sale-in-China.html)

Daniel

8th September 2011, 12:18

If you don't all run out and get Windows Phones after seeing this you suck!

EIz4C93i-U8

DOING DOING DOING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rotflmao:

ioan

9th September 2011, 15:15

Android stories - Gizmodo (http://gizmodo.com/android/)

David against Goliath. Or is it karma?

Malbec

9th September 2011, 17:35

David against Goliath. Or is it karma?

Hardly a case of David against Goliath given the size of HTC.

It sounds as if Google did indeed raid Motorola for its patents, which it has passed onto HTC. If so this means they are working together against Apple and that the likes of HTC and Samsung have nothing to fear from Google's Motorola purchase.

This article btw demonstrates the incestuous relationship between a lot of these companies.

Apple and Samsung's symbiotic relationship: Slicing an Apple | The Economist (http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/08/apple-and-samsungs-symbiotic-relationship)

ioan

10th September 2011, 17:30

Karma for what?

For starting the patent wars against it's competition.

gloomyDAY

10th September 2011, 22:49

Location: Tustin, CA, Ameri-cuh!
Time: 1034 PDT
Date: 10SEP11
Weather: 63*F and rainy

Daniel is driving down the street in his Fiat 500 like a BOSS. Suddenly, he stops at a red light and spots a Starbucks on a street corner! Daniel notices that the people inside are wearing flannel shorts even though the weather outside is quite cold and rainy. Daniel chuckles at the notion that anyone would wear such ridiculous clothing at the expense of looking cool, which annoys him. All of them are wearing collared shirts from top designer brands. Daniel imagines that they are conversing about the brutal working conditions of sweatshop laborers in third-world countries, and how they state that they would never buy products from companies that would propagate such deviousness. The irony strikes Daniel with a bit of anger. Finally, what drove Daniel over the edge, is that the people inside this trendy overpriced crappy-coffee establishment are on their MacBooks, iPhones and iPads; they're probably discussing how they're not slaves to a multinational corporation. A cold sweat runs down the back of Daniel's neck. He doesn't feel anything, nothing at all, except rage.

The light turns green. Daniel casually shifts his car into first gear. He slams his foot on the accelerator and aims directly for the green glass-stained windows of this hell hub. His car immediately consumes three patrons as Daniel's little Fiat breaks through the glass. Daniel laughs and yells, "Take that hipsters!" Daniel is just getting started.

A Windows powered laptop is sitting on the passenger side seat. Daniel picks it up and storms out of his car. He begins to beat the customers inside with his Windows machine, but none of these "hipsters" are capable of fighting back after years of believing that their Mac apparatuses can handle every conceivable task. The blood begins to accumulate on the floor. Daniel feels a surge of adrenaline pulsate through his body as he sees a wounded hipster try and escape from underneath his beloved 500. Daniel asks, "Any last words?" The wounded man pleads, "Please...I...I have a wife, kids, and loving fam..." Daniel bashes his head with his Windows powered laptop. The man dies and Daniel lets out a roar of laughter.

Finally, the carnage is laid out all over the Starbucks lobby and Daniel decides to spare the workers. Daniel hops back into his car, puts the car in reverse, and decides to go home.

Daniel

11th September 2011, 01:20

Awesome :D

J4MIE

11th September 2011, 03:38

Well I am about to get my Streak replaced shortly and will rejoin the masses with a smartphone :D

I'd never really looked at tablets previously, but after missing a bus home earlier in the week I found myself in Curries and was having a look at the tablets in there. I was really going to try and get a look at the Galaxy Tab but no shops seem to have them in. But anyway I picked up an iPad 2 and after having a wee play with it I thought it was actually pretty good, and if I had money and had gone in to buy one, I would probably have walked out with it! Sorry Daniel!! :) Will have to see how the prices of the Samsung go over the next couple of months and maybe splash out on one for my christmas..............

GridGirl

11th September 2011, 09:26

I can believe that Henners. :) A friend of mine had a 2 year old 3GS that had a battery that was overheating and used 15% of it's power to send one text message so she rang me up two weeks ago asking when the new iPhone (if indeed there is one) is coming out and how much hers would be to get fixed as it was so old. I told her to take it to the Apple shop and see what they say. She walked out with a brand new 3GS for £55. Not a bad exchange for her 2 year old phone I thought. If indeed a new one comes out she would most likely be able to get more than £55 back from a mobile phone purchase website like Mazuma.T

A friend of mine also managed to get Apple customer service to replace his 3 year old MacBook for a MacBook Pro for free by reading from a script he'd found on an internet forum while doing some research on the cracked case his MacBook was suffering from. Apple took his creditcard details and said they would charge him for the MacBook Pro if he didn't send his MacBook with the cracked case back to them. Obviously he FedExed later that day. It was worth the extra postage for getting the MacBook Pro for free.

Daniel

11th September 2011, 09:38

I just want to share my experience of Apple's customer service at their store in Cardiff yesterday. My wife has had a problem with her iphone 4 for the past few weeks where the button does not respond and takes a few presses to actually get any response. Its meant to take you back to the home screen and its rather annoying when you have to wiggle it around to get it to work. We phoned up Apple who booked us in with the Genius Bar in Cardiff Central at 10am yesterday morning. We strolled in where we were approached by a tiny gentleman (he was a midget) who was only too pleased to check us in. We waited a few minutes where we looked around their rather large store and were called to the bar at the back. We explained the problem and were met with the response:
Our mouths hit the desk and we said yes of course. My wife has just 3 weeks left of her 12 month warranty and she's getting a brand new phone. I asked if it was a refurbished model to which the answer was no, its a factory fresh model. We couldn't even get the problem to show itself to the assistant even though it had been doing it all morning but no questions were asked. Great service and although the phones are expensive, its service like this that sets them apart IMO. I had a HTC G2 Hero as my phone before the Incredible S and I had a hardware fault which was difficult to solve. HTC told me I had to send it off 3 times before I could be considered for a complete replacement. Apple's products might be slagged off and I admit I do that from time to time, but their support network is spot on.

The wife has backed up her data and we are heading back in this morning to pick her new iphone up.

If you look at the profit margin on an iPhone then it makes sense for them to give you a new one and keep you sweet and repair the old one which they'll still sell on for a handsome profit :)

Dave B

11th September 2011, 10:28

Great service, and as Daniel points out obviously part of the business model, but it seems to vary so much. I know of people who've taken 6 or 7 month old handsets in only to be batted away with the old "water damage" excuse even though they haven't checked the internal sensors and it's well known that the external ones are triggered by such things as having the phone in your pocket, breathing on it when using the microphone, or living in dodgy climates such as most of northern Europe.

Daniel

11th September 2011, 12:39

Mark

11th September 2011, 15:35

Apple are well known for good service like this. After all most of what you are paying for is the operating system and the development of the phone. The hardware itself isn't that significant.

They also recognise it's critical to keep you as a customer as if you have a bad experience it means you'll change brands so they can't sell you new models and you wont buy apps etc.

It's good to know that when I inevitably water damage this phone, which I have with most of my phones! That I can replace it without having to pay the original purchase price again.

Daniel

11th September 2011, 17:19

Mark

11th September 2011, 17:49

As I say theres more to it than just the phone these days. It's not like they just sell you a phone and that's the last they hear of you any more.

Daniel

11th September 2011, 17:57

He was lucky there. HTC aren't the best for their customer service in my own experience and for others I know.

Dunno. Back when Microsoft launched the NoDo update for WP7 which bricked a few phones, they were giving out new handsets as replacements when I've known other manufacturers to sent out brick updates and force refurbs on people. That Apple are more consistent is a good thing it has to be said.

Mark

11th September 2011, 18:00

Officially Apple only do supply refurbs I think but in practice it's often new phones.

I had problems with my Nokia's and got refurbs in return which were often more broken than the previous ones.

Daniel

11th September 2011, 18:03

Officially Apple only do supply refurbs I think but in practice it's often new phones.

I had problems with my Nokia's and got refurbs in return which were often more broken than the previous ones.

Tbh a lot of Nokia's have just been broken and you inexplicably chose phones like the N97 for some reason :p

Mark

11th September 2011, 18:12

Whata mistaka to maka

Daniel

13th September 2011, 12:06

I know this is on a Microsoft friendly site, but I think it's quite true

HTC: iPhones are for old people | wpcentral | Windows Phone News, Forums, and Reviews (http://www.wpcentral.com/htc-iphone-old-people)

I think iPhones are nowhere near as cool as they used to be, Android is the new cool because iPhones are conformist and a rather unimaginative choice. It's not like back IN 2007 when other touchscreen phones probably weren't as slick, didn't work as well and didn't have an easy to use app portal. But now you can buy an Android, WP7 or RIM handset that is every bit as good as an iPhone.

Daniel

13th September 2011, 12:10

and a good reason why Windows Phone 7 will still continue to stay in the doldrums

Microsoft Discovers Windows Phone Retailers Know Nothing About Windows Phones (http://gizmodo.com/5837883/microsoft-discovers-windows-phone-retailers-know-nothing-about-windows-phones)

Microsoft really do need to get off their butts and actually do some promotion with WP7. It's not going to sell itself.....

Daniel

13th September 2011, 12:48

I know you have a WP7 phone Daniel but IMO the interface is awful. The 'tile' interface just seems dull to me and I haven't been impressed when I've had a go with friends phones. Sure you can customize which tile goes where and you can change the colour which is probably marvellous, but I think different phones serve different sectors of the market. Its personal preference at the end of the day. :)

Thing is it's all about what you've used. When I've tried to use an Android phone to Frape someone I didn't even know how to turn the 3g on.

I think if you watched a few youtube videos of how the WP7 interface works and understood it a bit better you might grow to like it a bit more. Just as I'd probably like an Android phone if I knew how to use it :p

Daniel

13th September 2011, 13:13

Another day another lawsuit.

Samsung files French patent complaint against Apple, targets iPhone, iPad -- Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/13/samsung-files-french-patent-complaint-against-apple-targets-iph/)

This stuff really pisses me off. It all seems so childish and silly and the only people who get harmed are consumers.

I want one of these Electrolux kitchen laptop concept disregards grease, common sense -- Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/12/electrolux-kitchen-laptop-concept-disregards-grease-common-sens/) though!

airshifter

14th September 2011, 00:15

You can also have operating systems that aren't Microsoft running your PC. Microsoft if just conformist, and not nearly as trendy as it used to be. :)

If people are still buying Iphones long after they quit being trendy or cool, maybe it's because they actually like them. But I'm sure the haters of those products would never consider that as an option in a persons choice of how they spent their own money.

gloomyDAY

14th September 2011, 01:07

My MacBook is from mid-2007 and is starting to give me some problems. There are blotches on my monitor, the optical drive is acting screwy, and my trackpad doesn't like to work 100% of the time. Not too back for 4 years, and definitely impressive with the way I treat my notebooks. I'm taking it into the Apple shop in 2 hours, so we'll see what they say.

Mark

14th September 2011, 09:26

I didn't buy my iPhone because I thought it was 'cool' but because it does the job.

Mark

14th September 2011, 09:55

Daniel

14th September 2011, 11:13

Windows 8 Slate Hands On: It's Fantastic. (But Don't Sell Your iPad.) (http://gizmodo.com/5839665/windows-8-slate-hands-on-its-fantastic-but-dont-sell-your-ipad)

Its only the developers version being tested so far.

What a ****ty review. It warbles on incessently about how great Windows 8 is, then goes on to complain about flash not running on a developer preview (a developer preview is not even anywhere near the standard of a beta) when only an idiot would expect everything to work. A developer preview is a sort of proof of concept, this is something to get developers thinking about the designs of their apps for when Windows 8 launches this timeish next year. Criticising this version of Windows for not having things working is like criticising a test mule car for having bits in the interior which don't necessarily fit together 100% perfect etc etc.

He then jibber jabbers on about how it's better than any Android he's ever used. I like Microsoft more than most, but even though I've not spent a huge amount of time with an Android tablet (there's one here on my desk at work unused) I somehow suspect that Android is currently a more feature rich and stable environment than a developer preview of Windows 8. Personally whilst this is a far better tablet OS than 7, I still don't get the whole tablet thing. Marginally more portable than a laptop, less powerful than a laptop, far less portable than a phone...... I could go on. I see the uses for them, I work in a college for mentally handicapped young people and in the kitchens the students use them and I think for people who aren't going to have the ability to use a keyboard and mouse 100% they're great, but if you can use a keyboard and mouse you really should use them.

The author then goes on to prove what a moron he is by saying that Windows 7 is his least favourite build of Windows along with ME. What about Vista? Windows 98????? People are quite rightfully ripping into him on the comments section for that :laugh:

The Metro UI really is rather fantastic and I think once it launches in Windows 8 people will start to see how great it is to use and how tiles make more sense than a grid full of icons as in iOS or Android. Wonder how long it'll take before Apple and Google are doing live tiles?

Mark

14th September 2011, 11:32

So they are just big icons which can update themselves?

Daniel

14th September 2011, 11:37

So they are just big icons which can update themselves?

Well yes, but icons updating themselves isn't simply the work of 5 minutes.

Daniel

14th September 2011, 11:52

Now if I could have an iPad, that is the same weight and thickness etc but have a full (not mobile) version of Windows on it, that would be fantastic!

From what I've seen iPad is excellent but there are still a few issues with it which mean it can't yet replace a proper PC.

I don't get why you'd want to replace a PC though? Phones are excellent portable computing devices which in terms of brute force aren't that far behind tablets in terms of performance. A tablet has all the disadvantages of a phone with the advantage of a larger display and the disadvantage of having to find somewhere to put it when you want to take it somewhere.

I really think this is almost an electric car type device. Fantastic for its purpose, BUT due to limitations it can't really replace the device it's meant to replace, so you end up with 3 devices (a phone, tablet and computer) rather than just 2.

Daniel

14th September 2011, 12:25

I hope not. Its the most least appealing characteristic of WP7 for me and I hope others don't go that way. A screen full of tiles that update is just a different way of doing what the other interfaces already do and its purely an aesthetical difference IMO. I don't see it as massively innovative and something that will be copied as the others are already ahead in the market at this stage.

I personally think you're wrong and whilst you're right that it's purely aesthetical, isn't that the whole reason Apple have succeeded with the iPhone? The whole point of live tiles is that you can get certain information without having to actually open an application. If I just want a temperature why should I have to launch the bloody app? If you're wanting to see if there are any new tweets waiting for you, the live tile can tell you.

Dave B

14th September 2011, 12:41

If I just want a temperature why should I have to launch the bloody app? If you're wanting to see if there are any new tweets waiting for you, the live tile can tell you.
You've just described widgets which Android already has - and which are far more customisable than Mango / Metro - and which iOS5 looks like it's going to copy.

Daniel

14th September 2011, 12:55

You've just described widgets which Android already has - and which are far more customizable than Mango - and which iOS5 looks like it's going to copy.

Fair enough. I have seen other people using widgets like that. I think it's a 6 of one half a dozen of the other type thing.

From what I remember the WP7 implementation is a little bit more minimalistic. For me at least, I'd rather just have a notification of something new if all of the data can't fit into the field. Swings and roundabouts though I suppose.

Dave B

14th September 2011, 13:15

Fair enough. I have seen other people using widgets like that. I think it's a 6 of one half a dozen of the other type thing.

From what I remember the WP7 implementation is a little bit more minimalistic. For me at least, I'd rather just have a notification of something new if all of the data can't fit into the field. Swings and roundabouts though I suppose.

I don't know if you've played much with Android handsets, but one of the things I like about it is the way I can have widgets mixed in with shortcuts, in various sizes.

For example I use Plume as my Twitter client and I can have any or all of a simple icon which takes me to the full app, a 2x1 tile with basic notifications, a 4x1 tile which displays the latest tweet... right up to a 4x4 tile which is pretty much fullscreen. I can drag this to wherever I like (so long as there's space), duplicate it, mix it with icons and shortcuts, use 2 or 3 different widgets from the same app, whatever.

Windows' tiles are a similar concept but I'd only be interested if I could customise them in a similar way. I don't want Microsoft or a developer telling me that my Facebook tile must be blue and a certain size, for example.

Daniel

14th September 2011, 13:47

I don't know if you've played much with Android handsets, but one of the things I like about it is the way I can have widgets mixed in with shortcuts, in various sizes.

For example I use Plume as my Twitter client and I can have any or all of a simple icon which takes me to the full app, a 2x1 tile with basic notifications, a 4x1 tile which displays the latest tweet... right up to a 4x4 tile which is pretty much fullscreen. I can drag this to wherever I like (so long as there's space), duplicate it, mix it with icons and shortcuts, use 2 or 3 different widgets from the same app, whatever.

Windows' tiles are a similar concept but I'd only be interested if I could customise them in a similar way. I don't want Microsoft or a developer telling me that my Facebook tile must be blue and a certain size, for example.

I think I'd have to see what you're talking about to really understand it tbh. Maybe I'll have a play on the Android tablet that's staring at me.

I wouldn't imagine MIcrosoft would be too silly with restrictions.

In terms of playing with android handsets. It's always been someone elses phone and of course you don't go moving other people's stuff around so my experience of moving stuff around and configuring Android is virtually nil :)

Dave B

14th September 2011, 17:14

m.guardian.co.uk (http://m.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/sep/14/windows-8-metro-developer-viewpoint?cat=technology&type=article)

Some interesting but nerdy details for developers.

Daniel

14th September 2011, 17:39

m.guardian.co.uk (http://m.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/sep/14/windows-8-metro-developer-viewpoint?cat=technology&type=article)

Some interesting but nerdy details for developers.

Good piece. If as they say, the Metro UI is a success in the desktop field then it'll give a massive boost for Windows Phone and if people are buying windows phones then why are they going to go for Mac's and so on and so forth. As some sites are saying, it's an attempt at "One OS to rule them all"

Daniel

14th September 2011, 17:46

In the link I posted earlier on the Windows 8 tablet, am I right in thinking 'Socialite' and 'Tweeter' are microsofts apps for running Facebook and Twitter? Or are these applications microsoft has developed to rival the two?

I would imagine they're the apps Microsoft has Twitter and Facebook. I would imagine Socialite works with myspace, bebo and facebook etc etc whereas tweeter is probably just solely for twitter.

gloomyDAY

14th September 2011, 19:16

I mentioned earlier that I took my MacBook to the Apple store because of some hardware issues. Well, they fixed my trackpad and hard case for free and I just picked it up this morning. They said that any repairs to my monitor and my optical drive would cost extra (no surprise since my MacBook is from 2007). I may be a douche bag for owning a MacBook, but at least the customer service is AWESOME-O!

Daniel

15th September 2011, 10:47

Daniel

15th September 2011, 11:06

Having just tried an iPad (not sure if it was a 1 or a 2) for the first time for any length of time I have to say I'm not that impressed. It's not as intuitive as I would have thought. I'm sure if I spent another hour or so with it then I'd have been fine but it just wasn't a device you could pick up and use after not having used iOS before.

We were trying to sort something out for a quadriplegic boy whose brain still goes at a million miles an hour, but who has very little use of his hands and arms. He was pretty darn excited to have the chance to use an iPad so I think they're going to do their best to get him one. Having virtually no fine motor skills I think it's going to be a struggle but I think it's far better than him just telling someone else to something on his behalf. He struggled to hit the right buttons himself so I did wonder if a Windows 8 tablet would actually quite suit him because the icons are rather large but of course with it being a year off......

Daniel

15th September 2011, 12:22

Oh my god! I've just found the other person who bought a Windows Phone and she works at the same place as me! :p

Daniel

15th September 2011, 15:49

Mark

15th September 2011, 19:35

Indeed, competition is good. We want better products and maximum choice.

donKey jote

15th September 2011, 20:40

Oh my god! I've just found the other person who bought a Windows Phone and she works at the same place as me! :p
:kiss: :s ailor: :p

donKey jote

15th September 2011, 20:42

gloomyDAY

15th September 2011, 22:02

Yeah, but it broke in the first place which sucks.Well, no. I broke it by putting my MacBook in my backpack and throwing my stuff around. I really don't use my optical drive that much anyway and the screen got messed up because of moisture that seeped in from being around the beach.

I'll never buy a brand new MacBook because the price is nowhere near justified. Buying one second hand as I did would be a far better option, especially if your friend sells it to you for only $340.

Dave B

16th September 2011, 08:52

Jag_Warrior

16th September 2011, 10:00

Why doesn't Samsung just ramp down it's apple chip factory? :confused:

Money. Apple is one of Samsung's biggest customers. Apple's contribution to Samsung's annual revenues is reportedly in the $7.5-$8.0 billion range for 2011. And though Apple would have to find another chip manufacturer, the mobile chip designs belong to ARM (and Apple). Samsung just licenses the technology from ARM Holdings. But I suspect that Apple will begin moving certain chip purchases away from Samsung. I'm not sure what they'll do with NAND flash purchases. But with almost $80 billion cash on hand, Apple could snap up a chip manufacturer and start supplying itself, as well as others. But the margins aren't very high in chips (or flash), so I don't think that will happen.

Samsung and Apple were once friends. Now they're frenemies (I've been wanting to use that word for the longest time!).

Daniel

16th September 2011, 10:52

m.guardian.co.uk (http://m.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2011/sep/16/ios-android-windows8-programming-choose?cat=technology&type=article)

More nerdery which probably only Daniel and I will find interesting.

That screwed with my head somewhat :p

Whilst I can see his logic, sadly logic doesn't seem to matter these days. iOS, in spite of being more difficult to program for still had craploads more apps than anyone else.

I still remember when the original iPhone launched and didn't even have 3g and both of us laughed at how Apple could launch such a product without such a vital feature and how it would fail..... Thing is there seem to be enough ignorant people to buy Apple products that it doesn't matter, they could take 3G out of their next iPhone and people would still buy it and then put it in on the next model and it would be hailed as a triumph.

If anyone else had made a phone which you could kill the 3g signal on by holding it in a particular manner then they'd be laughed out of business. Not Apple. As someone who enjoys technology and likes to see good implementation of technology, Apple stuff pisses me off because it's expensive and underfeatured. I'm not a gadget person like others on here. I simply don't see the point of technology for technology's sake and I really hate to see duplication of function across 2 or more devices. Why do I want a tablet when my phone can do all that crap and is infinitely more portable? You've got yet another device to lug about as well.

I really doubt I'll get a tablet ever tbh. It's too much like my phone yet doesn't provide all the functionality of a computer because you can't use a proper hardware keyboard. If there is a good quality convertible tablet that doubles as a laptop and is good at both tasks then I'd certainly consider that.

Mark

16th September 2011, 12:36

You can get Bluetooth keyboards for iPad and iPhone but I agree with your point a tablet which is just one half of a laptop.

Mark

16th September 2011, 18:55

Looks like ARM is going to take over the world then. Look what the humble BBC Micro has become :p

Daniel

16th September 2011, 20:41

Looks like ARM is going to take over the world then. Look what the humble BBC Micro has become :p

Hmmmmm I think we'll wait and see with that. The only thing that's certain about the processor world is that it doesn't stand still and no one ever stays on top forever. I think beefy processors running the x86-64 instruction set will be with us in our laptops and desktops for a good while longer :)

ioan

16th September 2011, 20:52

Dave B

16th September 2011, 20:55

Looks like ARM is going to take over the world then. Look what the humble BBC Micro has become :p

Electron, surely? The BBC's used 6502s.</geek>

ioan

16th September 2011, 20:58

Oh my god! I've just found the other person who bought a Windows Phone and she works at the same place as me! :p

A match made in heaven! ;)

ioan

16th September 2011, 21:00

DailyTech - Apple Looks to Kill Samsung's Android Tablets and Phones in Britain (http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Looks+to+Kill+Samsungs+Android+Tablets+and+P hones+in+Britain/article22729.htm)

Hmmmmmm any bets as to whether this backfires on Apple? :dozey: People are going to start getting annoyed at this anti-competitive behaviour just like they got annoyed at Microsoft in the past.

No. And you described the reason yourself:

I still remember when the original iPhone launched and didn't even have 3g and both of us laughed at how Apple could launch such a product without such a vital feature and how it would fail..... Thing is there seem to be enough ignorant people to buy Apple products that it doesn't matter, they could take 3G out of their next iPhone and people would still buy it and then put it in on the next model and it would be hailed as a triumph.

If anyone else had made a phone which you could kill the 3g signal on by holding it in a particular manner then they'd be laughed out of business. Not Apple. As someone who enjoys technology and likes to see good implementation of technology, Apple stuff pisses me off because it's expensive and underfeatured. I'm not a gadget person like others on here. I simply don't see the point of technology for technology's sake and I really hate to see duplication of function across 2 or more devices. Why do I want a tablet when my phone can do all that crap and is infinitely more portable? You've got yet another device to lug about as well.