2008 Rally New Zealand - official thread

[rp]

Rally will be decided during the saturday, so now it is time to go sleep...Good night!

[jonkka]

No Aava?

[KKS]

As I am happy that I only get up early on Monday :D

[WRC1]

where is aava????

[jonkka]

Rautenbach is missing split...
And Aava has finished...

[CABAIO E'LONA]

WILSON M. / MARTIN S. "This stage was OK, but on previous one we spun and stalled engine. We lost about 20 seconds."
SOLBERG H. / MENKERUD C. "Powersteering is broken"
SOLBERG P. / MILLS P. "I cannot do more. I'm trying, but it is like this."
LATVALA J.-M. / ANTTILA M. "Have good time and good feeling. On second stage we run little bit sideways."
ATKINSON Ch. / PREVOT S. "It's going better than we expected. It was tricky, really narrow and slipery."
SORDO D. / MARTÍ M."Very good at the moment. This stage was very narrow and loose. Time is not best, but OK. I'm very happy at the moment."
HIRVONEN M. / LEHTINEN J. "It's going quite well. I got the rhythm. It's very hard, but good at the moment."
LOEB S. / ELENA D. ç "Last two stages were quite OK, no problems. But it's really very slippery. We have hard compound tyres, hard to keep car on the road."

From:

http://www.vysledky-rally.cz/vysledky/?rz=839&filtr=

[jonkka]

P-G faster than Duval on split 4 :eek:

[Halvis]

OMG, I just remembered that the rally started tonight, and boy - the Solberg brothers are really doing it easy for me to go straight to bed...

[WRC1]

wow very good time for andersson

[PuddleJumper]

Nice time for P-G on SS3 (SS2.2) :up:

So the SX4 can be fast.

[PuddleJumper]

Unfortunately I won't be able to function at work tomorrow if I don't sleep tonight, so it's time to go to bed. Hope to follow the final stage of the day in the morning.

Good night all.

[dimviii]

my bed is waiting for my tired body.
good night to all mates :D

[N.O.T]

when does the next loop of stages starts?

[sollitt]

At 2.07pm local time. Just under 2 hours.

[sollitt]

Richard Mason 10 seconds faster in old model Grp N Subaru than factory #1 driver in new model WRC car.
Back to drawing board needed I think!

[N]

Interesting start to see them having issues with tyres and deep gravel... But it's still very close at the top.

[jonkka]

After 2hrs of sleep, I'm back. Anyone with me?

[jonkka]

Loeb has no splits?

[xavier]

After 2hrs of sleep, I'm back. Anyone with me?

It's not too late yet in he US.. No 1st split for Seb?

Update: WRR says it's on stage, just split troubles apprently

[jonkka]

Sordo faster than Mikko, interesting... Just wondering how much faster still Seb is...

[xavier]

Sordo's position is important, Maybe Citroen will want to make sure he is ahead of Seb by the end the day.

[jonkka]

Same thought occurred to me...

[jonkka]

Atko is losing time

[jonkka]

Atko has rolled

[jonas_mcrae]

well its not late here so Ill try to follow the rally for a bit more, hope Latvala stays on the road!

[jonkka]

JML is about to drop 3rd

[xavier]

anyway, due to that stupid running order rule, today is pointless: The Ford will let the Citroen pass them on the last stage.

And it might the very same tommorow.. Why the FIA thinks that reducing rallies to 1/2 day is a good thing for the sport? this is beyond me.

[jonkka]

Atko stopped

[xavier]

Petter's time is abysmal....

[jonkka]

Petter's time is abysmal....

Well, when even Wilson is faster...

[ZequeArgentina]

I guess Aava could fight with Duval for, may be Petter can later match their speed too.
that would be 5th position after works Fords and Citroen. Interesting fight besides the top 4

Sordo is doing OK, as I expected.

[atchoum]

I guess Aava could fight with Duval for, may be Petter can later match their speed too.
that would be 5th position after works Fords and Citroen. Interesting fight besides the top 4

Sordo is doing OK, as I expected.

With the car Sordo has, the converse would be a pity! :D

[Minke]

Atko stopped

I can't get rally radio at work.. any reason why yet?

[jonkka]

I can't get rally radio at work.. any reason why yet?

He rolled and after that engine cut out and wouldn't restart.

[xavier]

I can't get rally radio at work.. any reason why yet?

He rolled and apprently damaged the engine

[jonkka]

Loeb is reeling Mikko in hand over fist... or is Mikko slowing down on purpose?

[N]

Well Atkinson is out, Solberg is having issues with his performance, so, nothing from Subaru...
I guess it's gonna be Loeb for a win with Hirvonen and Latvala pushing. It will be easy to finish in the points in this rally with the way everything is going now.

[John V]

So similar situation to last year - PCWRC battle more interesting than WRC

[jonkka]

Wilson out?

[jonkka]

Loeb late from start, on course for 30sec penalty

[tmx]

wow loeb obliterated everyone on that ss5, he took away all of hirvonen lead in a single stage.

[CarlosF]

Loeb late from start, on course for 30sec penalty

Ah,so Citroen do do tactics after all!...

[jonkka]

It seems genuine problem but ...

[CarlosF]

The fact that WRC.com don't have splits for Loeb.....does this mean that Ford don't either?

[jonkka]

Yes, it does

[CarlosF]

Ah, intriguing indeed.

[N]

Ok, Loeb is through the stage with a 30 second penalty, so, he is behind Mikko by 27.4 seconds.

[jonkka]

Half a minute is nothing against Loeb, especially when he's behind you on the road...

[CarlosF]

The really interesting thing is Latvala slowing to let Loeb marginally ahead by 2 secs. Surely he would have been better to have just gone for it on this last stage?

[CarlosF]

OK, on this whole issue of tactics...

The general consensus all year has been that Ford use them, but Citroen don't. However, at least Ford have been honest about it, even Jari-Mati admitted just now that he slowed on that last stage.

Now however we have Sebastian with an alleged starter problem at the start of the last stage but he manages to get going just behind Mikko. Added to the fact that for some reason he has conveniently shown no splits for this second leg......methinks Citroen have just given away any moral advantage they may have held......

[jonkka]

I do not give a damn. Tactics are not forbidden and current running order rules justify use of those so...

[jonas_mcrae]

OK, on this whole issue of tactics...

The general consensus all year has been that Ford use them, but Citroen don't. However, at least Ford have been honest about it, even Jari-Mati admitted just now that he slowed on that last stage.

Now however we have Sebastian with an alleged starter problem at the start of the last stage but he manages to get going just behind Mikko. Added to the fact that for some reason he has conveniently shown no splits for this second leg......methinks Citroen have just given away any moral advantage they may have held......

well said I think citroen should just admit they are using tactics as well, no big deal if your honest about it.

[tmx]

I'm having a difficult time reading here with all the jugdemental bsism this place have developed. Loeb is clever but I don't think it is his style to throw away times like that. It is not a smart tactic to throw away 30seconds in the middle of a race.

Although I don't think its smart for Latvala to give Loeb back all the time, this is getting annoying to me. I support the Ford team, I don't care if they use tactic. But this is excessove, they could do it in the end of the day, why now right away. I want to see a good race not everyone trying to slower than the other. It has become less of a race.

As I said before I believe it would be hard for Hirvonen to match Loeb here. This is very good for him, he should fight as hard as possible and increase his lead. I don't care what tactic it is, this is good fortune for Hirvonen for his title fight back and I hope he can stay in front of Loeb. I will be very disappointed if he also slowed down behind Loeb on purpose. Ford will lose a lot of fans if they do this too much.

[Minke]

The fact that WRC.com don't have splits for Loeb.....does this mean that Ford don't either?

yea.. I noticed that.. I'm thinking that Citeron did that on purpose so that the FOrd guys couldn't watch his split times and thus play road position games...

[tmx]

The Ford team doesn't rely on wrc.com to check Loeb's split.

I really want or wish to beleive the decision for Latvala to slow down is his own decision and not Malcolm's.

[Tom206wrc]

Well...tactics again :mark:

[MikeD]

I simply hate this use of tactics by slowing down. I have lost a lot of my support for Ford after Turkey, and maybe Loeb did have a problem with the starter ... or maybe Citroën just wanted to teach Ford a lesson.

[Minke]

The Ford team doesn't rely on wrc.com to check Loeb's split.

I really want or wish to beleive the decision for Latvala to slow down is his own decision and not Malcolm's.

There would only be one timing system.. and is Loeb's transponder isn't working (or showing up on WRC.COM) you can bet that the teams would also be lacking Loeb's splits..

[Buzz Lightyear]

gooo subaru.... :confused:

[Koppomsbo]

There would only be one timing system.. and is Loeb's transponder isn't working (or showing up on WRC.COM) you can bet that the teams would also be lacking Loeb's splits..


I can tell from very secure sources that this isnt the first time that Citroens splits stop working ... It have happend before that the connection cable to the tracking system have "fell out" in their cars

[White Sauron]

Just some thoughts about Latvala-Hirvonen comparison. People tend to say that Hirvonen is slower than his younger compatriot, while Latvala himself is a new generation of talent, much faster than even Loeb, judging by his raw speed. But it's not the first time that I notice Latvala is actually fast only when he's helped by better road position. And while he's in the same conditions as Loeb and Hirvonen, he loses to both of them. Combined with his inconsistency... He doesn't impress me at all on gravel anymore...

[Wim_Impreza]

Nice to see Hirvonen in the lead after the first day. Loeb must finally push in the next days. Good day for Duval, 5th place is excellent. P. Solberg is again very disappointing. It seems Andersson is faster than Gardemeister, why is Gardemeister too slow this year? Or had Garde problems in this day?

I am going now to work.

[bluuford]

yea.. I noticed that.. I'm thinking that Citeron did that on purpose so that the FOrd guys couldn't watch his split times and thus play road position games...

Actually they are not allowed to do so. Only thing they can do is connect it little bit "loosely": I remember that it was in the rule book that all P1 and P2 drivers should have GPS tracking system connected all the time (to give split times for wrc.com). But I don't think that Loeb played tactics. second on the road is not much better than first.. and to hope claw back 30 sek from Hirvonen is a bit tall task even for Loeb :-)
More realistic is the possibility that on the first stage, when Loeb went off, he damaged his car a little bit and therefore some electrical problems appeared such as starter was not working and GPS was lost.

[bluuford]

Nice to see Hirvonen in the lead after the first day. Loeb must finally push in the next days. Good day for Duval, 5th place is excellent. P. Solberg is again very disappointing. It seems Andersson is faster than Gardemeister, why is Gardemeister too slow this year? Or had Garde problems in this day?

I am going now to work.

Gardemeister went off on the first stage, hit a bank and got puncture and damaged a car a little bit. On the afternoon stages he was nearly as fast as Andersson.

[bluuford]

Loeb was indeed lucky not to roll and not to damage the car:
http://demand.global-mix.net/?o=gmuk-n.one-vod/WRC0670.wmv&.wvxg=

[Daniel]

Loeb was indeed lucky not to roll and not to damage the car:
http://demand.global-mix.net/?o=gmuk-n.one-vod/WRC0670.wmv&.wvxg=
What quick work at the wheel. That's why he' 4 times world champion and the rest are nobodys :)

[White Sauron]

What quick work at the wheel. That's why he' 4 times world champion and the rest are nobodys :)

you dare call the rest "nobodys"? I wouldn't.

[tmx]

Slowing behind is one thing, losing 30 seconds is another. With the speed of competition right now 30seconds is a very big gap. One would not stop in the beginning of the stage unless he can foretell what will happen during the stage.

If Loeb does it ion purpose he could go to Hirvonen and said: I think you are too slow so I gave you some times to make it more interesting.

[Donney]

It's really amazing how calm and collected Elena is all the time, it's like nothing happens around him except his notes.

[A.F.F.]

Loeb was indeed lucky not to roll and not to damage the car:
http://demand.global-mix.net/?o=gmuk-n.one-vod/WRC0670.wmv&.wvxg=

That's what I call pretty greedy cut :D

[I am evil Homer]

It's really amazing how calm and collected Elena is all the time, it's like nothing happens around him except his notes.

A huge, and often passed over, reason why Loeb is the champion he is. Elena is simply the best co-driver out there, both the pace notes he works on with Loeb, his calmness etc. It's a relationship built on many years together and total trust.

Add to that he also seems like a really nice guy :up:

[bennizw]

Somehow it seems Subarus statement "We can we in New Zealand", faded away in a one, two, three.

[bluuford]

There is still possibility that Subaru wins.. let say that Hirvonen and Loeb crash on the same stage at the same spot.. Sordo wears his tires on the last stage today and loses a lot of time.. Latvala Does what he usually does and Solberg finds some speed to catch Duval and Aava. Lets say the possibility is nearly 2 % :-)

[AndyRAC]

Somehow it seems Subarus statement "We can we in New Zealand", faded away in a one, two, three.

Mmm, but they didn't say what year, did they? Maybe 2010, 2011, 2012,....

[Mirek]

Or 2100? :D

[Finni]

I seem to remember that Citroen has got technical problems in favourable time also before this. Last year in Japan Loeb's engine went broken under superrally which according to Grönholm was benefit to Citroen and Loeb.

I think now race is quite open in terms of road positions. There is didfficult to say if Hirvonen's position is worser or better than Loeb's. If Loeb had gone leading then Hirvonen would have got real advantage by going second on the road and giving only one or two seconds.

If Ford had really played properly and thoroughly Hirvonen would be now behind Loeb.

[KKS]

Why at press conferense we see Mikko, Seb, and Dani who 4th? No J-M?
http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=31 ... 0day%20one (http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=310&page=1&featureid=696&desc=New%20Zealand%202008:%20Drivers'%20press%20co nference%20day%20one)

[MikeD]

Why at press conferense we see Mikko, Seb, and Dani who 4th? No J-M?
http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=31 ... 0day%20one (http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=310&page=1&featureid=696&desc=New%20Zealand%202008:%20Drivers'%20press%20co nference%20day%20one)

Sordi is 3rd is overall classification af SS7 Mystery Creek - but road positions were given after SS6 - so JML will be third on the road tomorrow.

[White Sauron]

Why at press conferense we see Mikko, Seb, and Dani who 4th? No J-M?
http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=31 ... 0day%20one (http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=310&page=1&featureid=696&desc=New%20Zealand%202008:%20Drivers'%20press%20co nference%20day%20one)

Because Latvala is fourth, point one behind Sordo. But tomorrow he starts 3rd, cause the last superspecial stage doesn't count for start order.

[Dingardo]

some of my day one pics are up

http://gallery.wrcfm.com/main.php?cmd=album&var1=RallyNZ+2008%2FDay+1%2F

[KKS]

OMG Day 1 have SS7
Not important stage can choose the position as last year, a pity that only for 3-4 places

[KKS]

MikeD, White Sauron - tnx

[Woodeye]

Interesting to see that the knights of Citroen with shiny armors use tactics as well against the badbad Ford. Could people now stop the Ford -bashing without any good reason? If you don't want to see tactics watch darts... or something else.

[N.O.T]

Tactics within a team is ok and acceptable, nobody complained when it was just hievoen slowing down to let 1 car ahead.....interfering with other teams to achieve your goal is dirty...

Those 30 second are hard to cover i think but if Loeb manages to cut down the lead of Hirvoen to around 10 seconds entering day 3 he has a chance.

[Mirek]

Martin Prokop is pleased with his performance after leg 1. It is his first run on New Zaeland and is currently second in PWRC. He said he made a spin in SS1 and lost some time. He also said he didnť want to take any risk.

[John V]

More realistic is the possibility that on the first stage, when Loeb went off, he damaged his car a little bit and therefore some electrical problems appeared such as starter was not working and GPS was lost.

ISC GPS units not completelly realiable. I remember one our race, two years ago, we had to change car GPS unit three times ...

[Wim_Impreza]

Gardemeister went off on the first stage, hit a bank and got puncture and damaged a car a little bit. On the afternoon stages he was nearly as fast as Andersson.

Thank you.

[A.F.F.]

Does anybody know what happened to Hänninen?

[PuddleJumper]

you dare call the rest "nobodys"? I wouldn't.
Daniel's an expert so he knows.

[bluuford]

Does anybody know what happened to Hänninen?

Almost the same thing as Loeb, but bit worse. Went too fast into right hand corner, then cut too much from the following left hander. Then the car fell on its left side and it took some time to get it on wheels again. After the end of the stage he tried to repair the wheel which was out of wheel arch as a result of that accident and it caused him 15 minutes lateness for the next stage, so he got 2:30 road penalties.
Shortly said, he did his usual thing in N-Z :-)
You can see bit of it from the video as well: http://demand.global-mix.net/?o=gmuk-n.one-vod/WRC0673.wmv&.wvxg=

[pantealex]

Does anybody know what happened to Hänninen?
Ulosajo ek1/Run out ss1 and then ss2 and ss3 with broken car, before service!

[c4]

Atko's roll and other youtube vids
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/rally-new-zealand-2008-day-one-hirvonen-leads/

[DonJippo]

Almost the same thing as Loeb, but bit worse.

Was even on the same corner as Loeb.

[tmx]

There would only be one timing system.. and is Loeb's transponder isn't working (or showing up on WRC.COM) you can bet that the teams would also be lacking Loeb's splits..

that doesn't seam right, since it happens in the past that his splits do not shows up. and fia officials don't look into this?

[DonJippo]

What quick work at the wheel. That's why he' 4 times world champion and the rest are nobodys :)

That one was pure luck, nothing more.

[Karukera]

No such luck at that level and speed, something you have learned by now.

It's talent and it does apply to all Rally drivers with only "little" personal variations in styles and effectiveness. :s tare:

[Kamikaze]

Where are all the People who cried loud about Ford´s Tactics ?
Nothing to say to the 30 Sec. Penalty of Loeb ?

:rolleyes: :s mokin:

[Tomi]

Where are all the People who cried loud about Ford´s Tactics ?
Nothing to say to the 30 Sec. Penalty of Loeb ?

:rolleyes: :s mokin:
Lol, dont you understand that Ford played tactics the wrong way and Citroen the right way ;)

[A.F.F.]

Ulosajo ek1/Run out ss1 and then ss2 and ss3 with broken car, before service!

Ok. Just a fleshwound :)

[N.O.T]

Where are all the People who cried loud about Ford´s Tactics ?
Nothing to say to the 30 Sec. Penalty of Loeb ?

:rolleyes: :s mokin:

how many cars are infront of Loeb tommorow sweeping ??

[A.F.F.]

how many cars are infront of Loeb tommorow sweeping ??

Is this a trick question ?

[White Sauron]

how many cars are infront of Loeb tommorow sweeping ??

one

[Torsen]

it looks like to me the reason that chris flip'd was because the suspension on the front left wheel sprung the car like a trampaline... now I don't claim to be an expert on suspension by any means... but it seems like on roads like this the rebound/fast bump was a little extreme? Thoughts? :dozey:

[Torsen]

Where are all the People who cried loud about Ford´s Tactics ?
Nothing to say to the 30 Sec. Penalty of Loeb ?

:rolleyes: :s mokin:

i doubt this was a tactic :vader:

[A.F.F.]

it looks like to me the reason that chris flip'd was because the suspension on the front left wheel sprung the car like a trampaline... now I don't claim to be an expert on suspension by any means... but it seems like on roads like this the rebound/fast bump was a little extreme? Thoughts? :dozey:

It would really help to see the footage from another angle. If that was indeed the same corner where Loeb had a moment then maybe there was a camera unit *fingers crossed*

[playmo]

I think that every car would do the same, bearing in mind that it shoud go at he same speed and through the same "line".
As a side-comment, i think Chris was "too much in" on that corner.

I sincerely think that Loeb does not need the "magic of tactics", he can outdrive any driver at this moment and, at this moment of time in technology i think that the team can control all of the electronics of the car remotely and that would explain that strange failure on Loebs car (and others on Sordos too) and i firmly believe that citroen DO use this kind of tactics (on secresy of course). That's the only good thing 'bout Ford: they are open on how they use tactics, no matter who likes/ dislikes.

[gloomyDAY]

it looks like to me the reason that chris flip'd was because the suspension on the front left wheel sprung the car like a trampaline... now I don't claim to be an expert on suspension by any means... but it seems like on roads like this the rebound/fast bump was a little extreme? Thoughts? :dozey: Chris probably botched this corner. You can clearly hear Prevot warning Atkinson about the camber and he still cuts into the corner. I wasn't really surprised by the consequences.

[Corny]

i doubt this was a tactic :vader:

I don't, Loeb will probably be a few seconds behind Mikko after tomorrow, so he will not have to sweep the road on sunday

[Daniel]

you dare call the rest "nobodys"? I wouldn't.

Ooh what are they going to do? Come and beat me up? It's a compliment to Loeb. He's that much better than the rest out there. It's just the truth. Sometimes people whose first language isn't English take things a bit literally. I didn't mean that the others are totally crap drivers. It's just that Loeb is such a good driver. If Marcus was still here I wouldn't be saying this at all. Loeb was better than Marcus by a good margin but he's better than Mikko and Jari-Matti by a country mile or a country 1.609344 kilometers if that makes more sense to you :)

[DonJippo]

i doubt this was a tactic :vader:

Ofcourse it was, no question about it. Have to give the credit for Citroen this time, they were the clever one compared to Ford, will be interesting to see if Ford will have similar failures tomorrow morning and Seb has to go first on the stages... ;)

[A.F.F.]

Ooh what are they going to do? Come and beat me up? It's a compliment to Loeb. He's that much better than the rest out there. It's just the truth. Sometimes people whose first language isn't English take things a bit literally. I didn't mean that the others are totally crap drivers. It's just that Loeb is such a good driver. If Marcus was still here I wouldn't be saying this at all. Loeb was better than Marcus by a good margin but he's better than Mikko and Jari-Matti by a country mile or a country 1.609344 kilometers if that makes more sense to you :)

Daniel, you should know that if Frodo come and seek you up, he won't be coming alone. He will have a whole fellowship with him.

[Daniel]

Daniel, you should know that if Frodo come and seek you up, he won't be coming alone. He will have a whole fellowship with him.
I'll be waiting for the little so and so with my horde of uruk hai ;)

[Finni]

Loeb was better than Marcus by a good margin but he's better than Mikko and Jari-Matti by a country mile or a country 1.609344 kilometers if that makes more sense to you :)

When Grönholm at last got the proper equipment he lost only marginally to Loeb. And that little thing was basicly asphalt factor (on gravel marcus got more points).

[White Sauron]

Funny you guys)) Ok, let's continue the trend.
Not me, it's Loeb like Frodo. A small hobbit good at gymnastics. First lucky to have a person to bring him to action life. Then lucky to be a part of the strongest fellowship (I think we can compare the 9 with Citroen Sport). Then lucky to have a sensible and reliable partner (Elena - Samwise). Then lucky to have his rivals weakened (2004 = Moria = Gendalf falling = Petter unlucky despite great power; 2005 = Great River = Boromir falling = Gronholm facing crap 307 WRC; 2006 = Dead Marshes and Mountains = rivals busy with other parties (Isengard, Minas-Tyrith) = Ford having first issues with the new car = victory despite a bite from a spider = victory despite falling from bike; 2007 = ... well, difficult to remember, anyway, again lucky to have Sam close to him and Sauron busy with the Northern gates.

[White Sauron]

Just kidding, guys. Don't take everything "literally", Daniel, my friend.

[Daniel]

Funny you guys)) Ok, let's continue the trend.
Not me, it's Loeb like Frodo. A small hobbit good at gymnastics. First lucky to have a person to bring him to action life. Then lucky to be a part of the strongest fellowship (I think we can compare the 9 with Citroen Sport). Then lucky to have a sensible and reliable partner (Elena - Samwise). Then lucky to have his rivals weakened (2004 = Moria = Gendalf falling = Petter unlucky despite great power; 2005 = Great River = Boromir falling = Gronholm facing crap 307 WRC; 2006 = Dead Marshes and Mountains = rivals busy with other parties (Isengard, Minas-Tyrith) = Ford having first issues with the new car = victory despite a bite from a spider = victory despite falling from bike; 2007 = ... well, difficult to remember, anyway, again lucky to have Sam close to him and Sauron busy with the Northern gates.

Suddenly it all makes sense :p

[Daniel]

When Grönholm at last got the proper equipment he lost only marginally to Loeb. And that little thing was basicly asphalt factor (on gravel marcus got more points).

True. But if you compare Seb and Marcus on their full seasons against each other it's 4-0 in Seb's favour. Don't get me wrong, Marcus will go down as one of the all time greats but Seb is just better :)

[A.F.F.]

Suddenly it all makes sense :p

Yep. WhiteSauron, you have my sword :)

[Finni]

True. But if you compare Seb and Marcus on their full seasons against each other it's 4-0 in Seb's favour. Don't get me wrong, Marcus will go down as one of the all time greats but Seb is just better :)

Nah, you are playing rhetorical number game. As I stated I consider that Marcus had parallel equipment only in 2007. So Seb won rather 1-0 only due to his better asphalt drive. :)

[Daniel]

Nah, you are playing rhetorical number game. As I stated I consider that Marcus had parallel equipment only in 2007. So Seb won rather 1-0 only due to his better asphalt drive. :)
Thing is you can never really compare cars properly. The fact stands that Seb has had 4 and Marcus none in the time Seb has had a full time drive in a WRCar.

If we were talking about a football match 4-0 would be a humiliating defeat for Marcus FC but in the WRC I think the fact that Marcus finished well in all those seasons says a lot about him and the level he was at. Perhaps if Peugeot had made another 206 WRC he would have been champion another 4 times but they didn't and we can only go on what ACTUALLY happened :)

Part of the skill in a driver is to pick a good team to drive with and if memory serves me correct Marcus could have moved to Citroen if he had wanted but he chose to go to Ford.

WhiteSauron, you have my keyboard and mouse :)

[FST]

I predict Miko's advantage will be gone after the 4th stage.

Unlike Friday’s roads, half of which were repeated, all of Saturday’s stages apart from the Super Special are used only once.

[turves]

oh dear......

Subaru: We know we can win in NZ

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70101

Hmmmmm....!

[White Sauron]

Well, Jani and Daniel, let's hope one sword, one mouse and a keyboard can help us with some fascinating action tonight!

[N.O.T]

When Grönholm at last got the proper equipment he lost only marginally to Loeb. And that little thing was basicly asphalt factor (on gravel marcus got more points).

hmmmm so marcus had 10 events favouring him and Loeb 4 and he still lost.....hmmmmmmm.....

[N.O.T]

Hirvonen through the first split...

[White Sauron]

and losing

[FST]

Loeb -0.4 on first split

[White Sauron]

What is more interesting is that as I predicted Latvala actually isn't as fast.

[N.O.T]

Is there an eye in the sky link ??

[A.F.F.]

Well, Jani and Daniel, let's hope one sword, one mouse and a keyboard can help us with some fascinating action tonight!

:) :up:

[MikeD]

I think Loeb just had Mikko for breakfast.... - 7.5 sec

[noel157]

Is there an eye in the sky link ??


Can't find the link on WRC.com.

They seem to have lost Colin.....

Loeb 7.5 up on Hirv.

[FST]

What is more interesting is that as I predicted Latvala actually isn't as fast.

Repeat that ;)

[pettersolberg29]

Is that Petter fastest at 1st split? A Subaru?

I bet it'll all go wrong by split 3!

[KKS]

Is there an eye in the sky link ??

at 10:00 local time must be

[Subarulover]

whats up with eye in the sky today? does anybody know?

[Finni]

If we were talking about a football match 4-0 would be a humiliating defeat for Marcus FC but in the WRC I think the fact that Marcus finished well in all those seasons says a lot about him and the level he was at. Perhaps if Peugeot had made another 206 WRC he would have been champion another 4 times but they didn't and we can only go on what ACTUALLY happened :)

In my view it's quite factual truth that if you have major technical problems 3-4 in a season you have little chances against a driver who has one or zero technical problems in the same period.

[SubaruNorway]

whats up with eye in the sky today? does anybody know?

Not supposed to start in another 30min like yesterday, let's hope it works this time...

[A.F.F.]

Thanks Becks :)

[FST]

H.Solberg is flying

[N.O.T]

HIRVONEN M. / LEHTINEN J. "I will try to go faster to Seb not catching me, but it will be hard."

LOEB S. / ELENA D. "Everything goes well at the moment. We took 7 seconds away from Mikko

LATVALA J.-M. / ANTTILA M. "It's allright. I'm not pushing like crazy, but we trying to keep Citroens under pressure.

SORDO D. / MARTÍ M. "My target is go to second place. But now I lost something on second split."

[KKS]

Hening flying

[Daniel]

In my view it's quite factual truth that if you have major technical problems 3-4 in a season you have little chances against a driver who has one or zero technical problems in the same period.

We could argue about this for hours on end :) At the end of the day the record books say 4-0 to Seb :)

[N.O.T]

with 3 long stages today Hirvonen should worry for Latvala and Sordo as well if he continues at that pace.

[A.F.F.]

Dammit, I have to get to bed now. Work tomorrow...

Have a fine rally night folks :wave:

[jonkka]

One must quit such a work if it starts blocking one's hobbies...

[N.O.T]

Hirvonen through split 1 in ss9

[KKS]

Prokop have problems at last split.. so Novikov maybe go to 3rd

edit: Fantastic last split by M. BALDACCI but anybody can't go same speed at that split

[MikeD]

Grrrr my Internet is so slow....and when it's slow at night it's because people in the building are watching porn.

Feel like shouting "Somebody is actually trying to get some splits down here" ... but they might not understand :/

[jonkka]

Sordo has superb 1st split... :eek:

[KKS]

strange video at home page wrc.com

[noel157]

Grrrr my Internet is so slow....and when it's slow at night it's because people in the building are watching porn.

Feel like shouting "Somebody is actually trying to get some splits down here" ... but they might not understand :/

Actually they may think they understand what you are shouting............

[Viking]

Hello to all!

Wery strange comments from Petter this weekend, never heard him like this before, is he on somekind of strike or something?

And Henning, way to go , beat them gr.N guys :)

[pettersolberg29]

Aava is impressive!

[Halvis]

Hello to all!

Wery strange comments from Petter this weekend, never heard him like this before, is he on somekind of strike or something?

And Henning, way to go , beat them gr.N guys :)

What comments? Haven't seen/heard anything, now I became curious...

[KKS]

Aava off?

[jonkka]

Aava losing time on 3rd split

[pettersolberg29]

Aava is impressive!

Typical!

[pettersolberg29]

Rautenbach fastest!

[jonkka]

And Conrad fastest on 1st split... I must be still asleep and dreaming...

[Viking]

What comments? Haven't seen/heard anything, now I became curious...

on WRR, all this "no confidense at all, but what can you do" stuff, no fighting spirit at all.

[jonkka]

Hmmm... I just noticed that the language options of wrc.com (on top right hand corner) are exactly the same than the remaining four events of this season... Weird co-incidence... :eek:

[pettersolberg29]

Petter crashed...

[pettersolberg29]

...no

[jonkka]

Petter crashed...

Huh?

[Halvis]

on WRR, all this "no confidense at all, but what can you do" stuff, no fighting spirit at all.

OK, hopefully a sign of him finally giving up on Subaru. I doubt that we will see him in that car next year. Either he quits or find himself another team.

[jonkka]

No news as to what happened to Aava?

[Tomi]

OK, hopefully a sign of him finally giving up on Subaru. I doubt that we will see him in that car next year. Either he quits or find himself another team.

time to quit, and give space to younger more faster and motivated drivers.

[Finni]

time to quit, and give space to younger more faster and motivated drivers.

Solberg would beat Hirvonen and Latvala in one breath with the same car.

It just seems that with Subaru drivers are inconsistent. It's curious. In any case with the new car Petter has been mainly faster than Chris.

[crazy]

He lost his mojo with all the disappointments.

[playmo]

grat time by Wilson, 12 seconds after Loeb! (in just one stage)
Good thig to know the kid is improving, now i can get to work calmly after that GREAT time....
That Becks is funny

[KKS]

Novikov at 3rd again :D

[Finni]

He lost his mojo with all the disappointments.

Probably partly true. But gice him a proper car and mojo is back. Give Solberg little smell of win and that guy will go for it harder than anybody.

[jonkka]

That Becks is funny

So sad that it's borderline hilarious, you mean?

[Tomi]

Solberg would beat Hirvonen and Latvala in one breath with the same car.

I dont think so, he dont have what it takes anymore.

[KKS]

Anybody knows SS 9 Mystery Creek 2 will be at internet stream?

[Finni]

I dont think so, he dont have what it takes anymore.

I think even Atkinson would at least parallel Hirvonen and Latvala or could be even better at that point (Latvala is inconsistent).

[jonkka]

JML throws down the gauntlet at Loeb... Even Sordo faster again...

[bluuford]

Looks ike Aava´s problems are solved.. probably it was puncture. It looks like that on time wise.

[Tomi]

I think even Atkinson would at least parallel Hirvonen and Latvala or could be even better at that point (Latvala is inconsistent).
keep on thinking, but what if the subaru is better car than what you think.

[playmo]

So sad that it's borderline hilarious, you mean?

Yep

[Halvis]

Probably partly true. But gice him a proper car and mojo is back. Give Solberg little smell of win and that guy will go for it harder than anybody.

I think you're right. If you compare with Henning, Petter has more experience and have been faster for many years - and Henning wins stages in the Ford. I'm pretty sure Petter would be faster than him in that car aswell. Put Petter in the Ford and he will certainly be trading fastest times with Seb on gravel.

Pity that it's very unlikely that he will get the opportunity.

[Finni]

Looks like Hirvonen is off..

[noel157]

Go on George Donalson, telling Bex that WRC.com is a load of c-rap because Eye in the Sky is not working. Well done George.

[Finni]

Looks like Hirvonen is off..

Too hasty anticipation!

[dimviii]

impressive pace so far from Mason :eek:


anybody knows the reason of abandoned Arai? :rolleyes:

edit..from radiator

n14 is a dissapointment so far,even not fast,as his big brother s14...

[noel157]

keep on thinking, but what if the subaru is better car than what you think.


The Subaru is a better car than many people think.

[Finni]

Latvala found his groove.. I think he is biggest threat of Loeb's win.

[jonkka]

WRR people talk way quite a lot about food. The obese lot...

[Finni]

keep on thinking, but what if the subaru is better car than what you think.

I know Chris and Petter are top-notch. Petter was paralleling Grönholm when Chris came in and Chris was instantly very, very fast.. Doing almost stage wins in Finland in his frist year.

[jonkka]

Half of the day gone and Seb has taken 20sec out of Mikko. If it continues like this, he'll be 10sec ahead of Ford driver by the end of the day. Not a big gap but...

[Tomi]

WRR people talk way quite a lot about food. The obese lot...

maybe, because they get paid in bananas.

[alleskids]

with 3 long stages today Hirvonen should worry for Latvala and Sordo as well if he continues at that pace.

4th starter Sordo is pushing 3rd starter Latvalla and doing so Latvalla will pass Hirvonen if the battle keeps continueing like this. Sordo is shoveling Latvalla passsed Hirvonen. The tactic plans seems to favour Citroen this time instead of Ford. But then ofcourse, Latvalla will have "problems "' sunday, if he is in front of Hirvonen. Maybe Ford has to installe the start engine they borrow from Loeb :) :) .

[Viking]

The Subaru is a better car than many people think.

Yeah, probably 3`rd best rallycar in the world, not to bad ;)

[noel157]

Yeah, probably 3`rd best rallycar in the world, not to bad ;)

Hey, P3 ain't bad. Seriously I really do think it will get better and will challenge before season's end.
(famous last words....)

[jonkka]

4th starter Sordo is pushing 3rd starter Latvalla

I wouldn't call "falling steadily further away" as "pushing".

[playmo]

anybody knows if one could watch the SSS live on internet?

[jonkka]

Hey, P3 ain't bad. Seriously I really do think it will get better and will challenge before season's end.

One can hope so but evidence isn't exactly very convincing as of yet. Especially here in NZ it seems that both drivers have a resigned outlook...

[dimviii]

Petter said....

"As I said earlier. I don't know what to do. Struggling a huge."

D.R i am sure he is not smiling :p :

[Roy]

Promising times of Wilson. :bounce: Shame he had problems yesterday.

[KKS]

Novikov touch Nutahara car O_o

[Viking]

Petter said....

"As I said earlier. I don't know what to do. Struggling a huge."

D.R i am sure he is not smiling :p :

Not better from Atko "best I could do" and young Wilson beat him with 30s!

[dimviii]

also Atko says strange words...
"It's hard to say anything. It's tough. Just keep smiling and driving."

[playmo]

That mr. DR must be holding a gun to petter's wife and Cris's girlfriend, in case they slip some ill words for that great-new-car
Where is the pace from Finland?
That car is a total CR@p!

[crazy]

What is the suzuki then ? :D

[SubaruNorway]

Just went for a walk with the dog and ready for more rally :)

Scary how awake i still am lol

[ZequeArgentina]

So, anybody out there??
It seems it is only me right here

[jonkka]

You're soooo wrong. Truth is out there and I am here... :eek:

[ZequeArgentina]

wow, 1 finn, 1 norwegian, it is really late (or very early )there !!

Well Loeb on a chase, I guess he will end day 2 as first one, the question is: would that be enought for tomorrow

[jonkka]

Six o'clock in the morning and I've slept two hours before the Leg 2 started and now a little short of four hours between the stages. Not bad... :)

[jonkka]

RE: Loeb's lead
Let's see how big gap he'd get first, judging from his pace so far I'd reckon it'll be between 5-15 secs. If it's closer to 15 or more, it'll be enough, less is a bit tricky call.

[jonkka]

Bruno? Portela? From Portugal on WRR...

[ZequeArgentina]

at spit 5 Loeb iss 5,3 sec in front, so at that split the lead is exactly shared with Mikko, last part of the special, and next one (another over 30 km long staage) should be be the difference Seb will build to manage the race tomorrow!

[jonkka]

Nah, he's from Oporto...

[jonkka]

JML's speed ebbs strangely, at one split he's 1.2sec behind Loeb, at next he's only 0.1sec behind...

[ZequeArgentina]

overdriving someplaces, just flying in others.................JML way so far this year (I really like his lines when he is on fire!!!!)

[jonkka]

But look at Sordo!

[ZequeArgentina]

so 9,5 seconds faster this stage, it must be similar next one, it will be close to the 15 secs you mentioned.
interesting, still flat out for both till the end if nobody does a mistake, and JML and Sordo very close, a msitake a many points could be lost

[jonkka]

JML saying that he wants to be 2nd on the road tomorrow and not 3rd... I reckon that it's because Mikko needs to be 3rd in order to challenge for the win and have a shot at the title...

[ZequeArgentina]

it can also rain tomorrow........JML and even Sordó, they should all 4 be within 15 seconds at the end of today probably

[jonkka]

Duval's english has improved somewhat in couple of years...

[ZequeArgentina]

hum, Baldacci without 2 splits............change in PWRC lead??????

[jonkka]

Yes, Baldacci has gone off

[jonkka]

The decisive stage is on... what will Seb do?

[ZequeArgentina]

yep, changes in PWRC: BALDACCI M. / AGNESE G. (st. č. 32) Mimo trať, nemůže se dostat zpět / Went off, reported he stucked (Vysledky)

[atchoum]

Duval's english has improved somewhat in couple of years...

True!! :D

He's even about to speak a better english than Loeb!!

It surprised me, in a good way.

Keep on learning, the Duve!! :cool:

[jonkka]

Loeb slows down... now Citroen has engaged in tactics...

[ZequeArgentina]

WOW!!!!!, what a surprise Loeb played tactics!!!!!
preffered just 1 secod behind but 2nd on the road (or would it be 3rd???????')than 12s in front!!

[ZequeArgentina]

and Latvala is first!!!!!
was seb counting on him also??

He slowed 4 seconds in excess, probably wanted to assure third in the road!

[John V]

Bit surprise, but not big. Better say revenge, now score is 1:1 between Ford and Citroen in tactics maneuvres.

[jonkka]

I don't mind about the score, the most important fact is that both top teams have used tactics, admitting that those are necessary in a fight for the win. This ends all discussion about Citroen's moral superiority.

[xavier]

I hate the FIA! If they dont change the rule for next year i wont follow any gravel events!

I dont know who's the idiot that though this year running order was a good idea, but the guy should be nailed to tommorow's front runner car bumper and use as a sweeper!

[ZequeArgentina]

Tactics are part of the game, that is why FIA has been testing with starting orders!!

[jonkka]

Unfortunately there is no good solution for the sweeping problem, both running orders have their inherent problem...

[ZequeArgentina]

as estimated, all 4 in 15 seconds for tomorrow!

[John V]

Unfortunately there is no good solution for the sweeping problem, both running orders have their inherent problem...

But still, some solution should be find, because otherwise it will become total comedy. Popcorns and sweet candies will be selled to crews before finish of last stage on 2nd day during waiting for better road position :confused:

[ZequeArgentina]

I n the "good old days" it was the dust, running first could be a big advantage, except un New Zealand (obviously speaking about gravel).

It is part of rallying.

Running 2nd also let you (well let "them") see the driving lines and copy or risk a little more and so on.

It is part of the spirit of rallying!

[xavier]

Unfortunately there is no good solution for the sweeping problem, both running orders have their inherent problem...

Do you actualy think that driving to split, like it was in the past years, is not better than the comedy we see this year?

[jonkka]

But still, some solution should be find, because otherwise it will become total comedy. Popcorns and sweet candies will be selled to crews before finish of last stage on 2nd day during waiting for better road position :confused:

It's easy to say but much harder to find that solution.

[ZequeArgentina]

now it looks like Novikov missing, PWRC is loosing the main contenders to Prokov (good for him as the fight has been at the second!!)

[jonkka]

Do you actualy think that driving to split, like it was in the past years, is not better than the comedy we see this year?

My dear Xavier, the driving to the splits is only one of the two major problems of reversed running order.

Equally, or even more important downside is that by putting slower drivers first and suffer from the sweeping, you also make it much harder for slower (new, small or struggling) teams to make it to the top. Effectively, that makes the climb to the top much steeper, discouraging anyone from trying to join the sport.

[Gard]

WOW! what has happened to Henning? 3rd stage win i a row. Even Petter has picked up the pace. I guess the fight for road positions.

[xavier]

My dear Xavier, the driving to the splits is only one of the two major problems of reversed running order.

Equally, or even more important downside is that by putting slower drivers first and suffer from the sweeping, you also make it much harder for slower (new, small or struggling) teams to make it to the top. Effectively, that makes the climb to the top much steeper, discouraging anyone from trying to join the sport.

Isn't it better that the road sweeping affect driver ranked 10-15 rather than affecting driver that are fighting for the lead?

Fights for the 10th place are surely not as important than fights for the 1st place! Honestly what does it change for Suzuki and Subaru that they are penalized for being slow on day 1 and 2?

[gloomyDAY]

I hate the FIA! If they dont change the rule for next year i wont follow any gravel events!

I dont know who's the idiot that though this year running order was a good idea, but the guy should be nailed to tommorow's front runner car bumper and use as a sweeper!Relax! Tomorrow will make for great rallying.

Final leg may come down to the wire. :monkeedan

[jonkka]

Isn't it better that the road sweeping affect driver ranked 10-15 rather than affecting driver that are fighting for the lead?

Fights for the 10th place are surely not as important than fights for the 1st place! Honestly what does it change for Suzuki and Subaru that they are penalized for being slow on day 1 and 2?

A matter of opinion, obviously.

In some motorsport disciplines the winners are given extra ballast to keep the field together. Ie, they are penalized for success and that's considered fair and square as it's considered to keep the interest up by preventing runaway success.

In rallying, sweeping can be considered to be a similar equalizer. Some don't like the concept (me included), but penalizing the slowest, poorest or least experienced is by far worse concept if you ask me.

What it might change for Subaru or Suzuki is that if they see that even with their best efforts their progress is hampered by conditions they cannot affect, they'll call it a day and quit the sport. In my opinion, all should be done to encourage more works teams to enter the sport and not the contrary. Powerful teams will always be there and will always win but if no new blood is introduced, sport will decay due to inbreeding.

[John V]

It's easy to say but much harder to find that solution.
Yes, I understand well this should be not easy. Probably solution fully correct to everybody can't be find, but at least more less. Better than nothing, I hope.

[xavier]

A matter of opinion, obviously.

In some motorsport disciplines the winners are given extra ballast to keep the field together. Ie, they are penalized for success and that's considered fair and square as it's considered to keep the interest up by preventing runaway success.

In rallying, sweeping can be considered to be a similar equalizer. Some don't like the concept (me included), but penalizing the slowest, poorest or least experienced is by far worse concept if you ask me.

What it might change for Subaru or Suzuki is that if they see that even with their best efforts their progress is hampered by conditions they cannot affect, they'll call it a day and quit the sport. In my opinion, all should be done to encourage more works teams to enter the sport and not the contrary. Powerful teams will always be there and will always win but if no new blood is introduced, sport will decay due to inbreeding.

You sure have a point there. But no "2nd grade" teams got any perks from that system. The only difference may be at the amount of time they are behind, but the current system did not help them to get ahead of the other teams. So tell me how it motivates these teams?

It is far worse for the image of Rallying that drivers stop on the side of the road! How can a manufacturer commit money to that kind of farce? It is supposed to be a sport where the fastest and smartest wins on the course of a few days. Now it is who is fastest on the last 1/2 day!

What's wrong with a system where the running order would be 9-16 and then 1-8. No drive to the split and 1-2-3 drivers have about the same road conditions?

[A.F.F.]

Wow... I'm amazed. Folks drove pretty fast and most of them are still in the game. Back in the good old days, only a handfull kept on going after saturday leg :D

You can say whatever you want about the starting order and tactics, one thing is for sure. It's going to be an intense final leg :up:

[N]

I still didn't understand, what did Loeb do on the last stage, his splits are fast?

[wroom]

I don't mind about the score, the most important fact is that both top teams have used tactics, admitting that those are necessary in a fight for the win. This ends all discussion about Citroen's moral superiority.

Amen to that! Its been such a bore following the various discussions portraying Ford as cheats and cowards and Citroen as saints. Its a race, you do everything the rules permit to win.