2008 Rallye Deutschland - official thread

[Buzz Lightyear]

world rally radio man is very annoying...

[Langdale Forest]

There is enough rubbish drivers in wrc cars to make room...

Including Matt Wilson who is never going to win a WRC event, let alone the championship.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Atkinson: Just has not got the pace to be a champion
Sordo: Tarmac specialist
Latvala: Could be champion if he stopped crashing! :s pin:

Wasn't really what I mean. You were inferring that Meeke would never win a championship, so does that imply he does not derseve a chance? Meeke has the pace, is not a tarmac specialist, and does not crash too often compared with Latvala. While Ogier is being touted as next big thing, Meeke is giving him some driving lessons.

[Viking]

"Tarmac king" Henning faster than Latvala :up:

[Langdale Forest]

SS12 started.

[Langdale Forest]

I CAN'T BELIVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hirvonen and Sordo are faster than Loeb!!!!!!!

[Buzz Lightyear]

have u taken your tablets today?

[Woodeye]

I CAN'T BELIVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hirvonen and Sordo are faster than Loeb!!!!!!!

Could it be that he's not pushing 100 % anymore?

[Woodeye]

Including Matt Wilson who is never going to win a WRC event, let alone the championship.

Amen on that one. I wish his father would also realize this at some point.

[Langdale Forest]

Amen on that one. I wish his father would also realize this at some point.

He should really be doing the BRC, not the WRC because all he is doing is wasting a drive.

[jonkka]

He should really be doing the BRC, not the WRC because all he is doing is wasting a drive.

Wasting a drive? Do you really think that someone else would get to drive that car if Matt wouldn't be driving it? He's on third Stobart, an additional one. If his father is stupid enough to believe in that dream, let him 'cause it's not taken away from someone else.

[Buzz Lightyear]

very true jonkka.

[Tom206wrc]

I CAN'T BELIVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hirvonen and Sordo are faster than Loeb!!!!!!!




:confused:

[ZequeArgentina]

once again all the mat wilson thing!!!
Stop it for once, he is doing what he wants, and what his father allows him, if he is not a master, OK, just 1 more.

And be honest, is Mat taking someones seat? or it is just that Sttobart would be running 1 less car.
When there is one suitable to run (like Duval here) they just add another car, that is all.

Malcolm will not give drives for free, it is his bussiness to run a WRC team (or two), in his position you would neither give drives for free, so let the good ones find their way and let mattheuy where he is.

[N.O.T]

I think meeke/wilks could be a valid replacement for poor Galli now that he is gone.....but i they need to bring money as well..

[jonkka]

I think meeke/wilks could be a valid replacement for poor Galli now that he is gone.....but i they need to bring money as well..

Now, that's the real question. Who will replace Galli? Does he need to bring money? Did Galli fund his own drive?

[Tomi]

Now, that's the real question. Who will replace Galli? Does he need to bring money? Did Galli fund his own drive?

yes, galli has sponsors, btw who is meekes manager?

[White Sauron]

And where's Hirvonen?

EDIT: it's Ok, no 1st split

[Langdale Forest]

Sordo is going faster than Loeb again.

[noel157]

yes, galli has sponsors, btw who is meekes manager?

There really is no managerial system in Ireland or the UK such as you have in Finland, there simply isn't the money about. His brother looks most things along with Kris with the help of some backers but it's all essentially a DIY thing.

[Buzz Lightyear]

There really is no managerial system in Ireland or the UK such as you have in Finland, there simply isn't the money about. His brother and some backers looks after most things but it's all essentially a DIY thing. I am not 100% sure, but I did read somewhere that he has an ex-citroen guy working for him this year? It did mention name, but I cannot remember.

[noel157]

Dudu not 'appy, "car very difficult to drive"

[Buzz Lightyear]

Is this Greg Strange that is talking on WRR? Does he own it or something?

[White Sauron]

Dudu not 'appy, "car very difficult to drive"

Maybe it's a good reference that the Focus is actually a very difficult car to drive on asphalt, that's being the reason neither Gronholm last year nor Hirvonen now able to beat Citroens?

[MJW]

Is this Greg Strange that is talking on WRR? Does he own it or something?

Yes he does own WRR,

[Maui J.]

Nasty accident to Gigi.
Was really looking forward to seeing him here at Rally NZ. Real shame!

Meeke would be good replacement.

Another Loeb monopoly here it looks like.

Bolt just won 100m at Olympics if your not watching in fastest time ever, 9.69sec

[Brother John]

Don´t they have security people in Germany? This Belgiums are not at a save place! Next week they complain on a forum why a SS had been annulated. :rolleyes:
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2008/wrc/de/pl_a_3_duval_4.jpg

[Tom206wrc]

Maybe it's a good reference that the Focus is actually a very difficult car to drive on asphalt, that's being the reason neither Gronholm last year nor Hirvonen now able to beat Citroens?



The Ford fanatics will say it's all due to drivers, the car is the best of the world, etc... :p :

[Finni]

Maybe it's a good reference that the Focus is actually a very difficult car to drive on asphalt, that's being the reason neither Gronholm last year nor Hirvonen now able to beat Citroens?

It has always been my intuition that C4 is more or less faster than Focus on asphalt.

[Tomi]

There really is no managerial system in Ireland or the UK such as you have in Finland

from where is this Robertson who is Kimi Räikkönens manager, I tought he is Brittish.

[Finni]

I think that Ford is not ideal in hairpins. I bumped up Dudu thread from last year where this issue is under consideration.

[MJW]

from where is this Robertson who is Kimi Räikkönens manager, I tought he is Brittish.
Correct - Kimi's manager is Steve Robertson but that is circuit racing.

[Buzz Lightyear]

from where is this Robertson who is Kimi Räikkönens manager, I tought he is Brittish.

Yes Robertson and his son. I am sure they are is great when you have a commodity like Kimi who demands €20m per year.

A manager like that is not much good when Malcolm Wilson is probably looking €100,000 to do New Zealand.

A "bank" manager is maybe whay you need :)

[noel157]

from where is this Robertson who is Kimi Räikkönens manager, I tought he is Brittish.
Correct, David Robertson. Be good if he branched out from the billion dollar world of F1 to the WRC.

[N.O.T]

Ogier wants to secure the JWRC win as it seems....Meeke is doing a fantastic event he is almost 1 minute ahead !!!

[Finni]

Ogier wants to secure the JWRC win as it seems....Meeke is doing a fantastic event he is almost 1 minute ahead !!!

To me it seems that Meeke has just beem 0.5-1.0 sec per/km faster from the start of day.

[MJW]

Correct, David Robertson. Be good if he branched out from the billion dollar world of F1 to the WRC.
Yes you have to remember that Britain currently has the best ever driver that lived in the entire world history and no-one deserves any publicity / promotion or sponsorship other than his highnes Lewis the wonderful - gues what I am not an F1 fan!

[N.O.T]

I think the stobart ford should be run by meeke on tarmac and by Hanninen on the remainig gravle events.

[Tomi]

Correct, David Robertson. Be good if he branched out from the billion dollar world of F1 to the WRC.

i was just thinking that he could be interested in making some money, if he think meeke has potential, about rally he is for sure interested, he has been here following events 1-2 times.

[Buzz Lightyear]

I think the stobart ford should be run by meeke on tarmac and by Hanninen on the remainig gravle events.

Now that seems sensible. Remember Meeke is just not a tarmac driver.

[noel157]

On WRR when Colin was talking to Glen patterson (PR man with Stobarts and ex co-pilot) Colin mentioned somethng about rumours. Wonder what he had heard?

[Tomi]

Yes you have to remember that Britain currently has the best ever driver that lived in the entire world history and no-one deserves any publicity / promotion or sponsorship other than his highnes Lewis the wonderful - gues what I am not an F1 fan!

lol another worlds best who have never won nothing sofar, i see what you mean.

[MikeD]

world rally radio man is very annoying...

Are you refering to the new man Greg? He speaks like they did in the UK a 100 years ago. I constantly fear that he will ask a marshall: "Can you bring me a Gin Fizz, boy" :D

[noel157]

Yes you have to remember that Britain currently has the best ever driver that lived in the entire world history and no-one deserves any publicity / promotion or sponsorship other than his highnes Lewis the wonderful - gues what I am not an F1 fan!

Quickly OT, but I wonder how Hamilton's season would be like if Ross Brawn was back at the Scuderia?

[MikeD]

Will one of the works teams plesase give meeke a wrc car.
The man has some pace.

Doubt it will happen. He might be fast, but he says things about teams and team bosses that is very stupid. I think he has burned his bridges.

[noel157]

Doubt it will happen. He might be fast, but he says things about teams and team bosses that is very stupid. I think he has burned his bridges.

What was that all about Mike?

[Buzz Lightyear]

Doubt it will happen. He might be fast, but he says things about teams and team bosses that is very stupid. I think he has burned his bridges. what? please find at least one example.

[c4]

Doubt it will happen. He might be fast, but he says things about teams and team bosses that is very stupid. I think he has burned his bridges.

Perhaps you are referring to Prodrive who later admitted they shafted Meeke and owe him big time

[MikeD]

What was that all about Mike?

It was an interview he gave to Crash.Net in early 2007 (I think) where he critised the management at Citroën, making sure he would never getting a WRC drive. Equally he critised Ford for only offering money-seats in their M2 teams - and not offering seats to talents.

Stuff like that can be said in a correct way and in ohh so many wrong ways ... if you understand what I mean.

[Buzz Lightyear]

It was an interview he gave to Crash.Net in early 2007 (I think) where he critised the management at Citroën, making sure he would never getting a WRC drive. Equally he critised Ford for only offering money-seats in their M2 teams - and not offering seats to talents.

Stuff like that can be said in a correct way and in ohh so many wrong ways ... if you understand what I mean.

Thats poor Mike. I have been following him for a few years, and he is never critial of teams. There is nothing wrong with saying you need money to get a seat.

[Langdale Forest]

Good first split for Petter.

[jonkka]

Mikko on the run...

[cannyboy]

It was an interview he gave to Crash.Net in early 2007 (I think) where he critised the management at Citroën, making sure he would never getting a WRC drive. Equally he critised Ford for only offering money-seats in their M2 teams - and not offering seats to talents.

Stuff like that can be said in a correct way and in ohh so many wrong ways ... if you understand what I mean.


Would the teams rather take money from bad drivers and loose?
Subaru need a third driver to show that the car is not the problem.
No muich point spending 50 million a year, if hiring someone like meeke for free would make the difference.
Ford need a replacement for Gigi, who was not on the pace all year.



I'd wager meeke being able to match loeb in equal machinary.

[bt52b]

Is this Greg Strange that is talking on WRR? Does he own it or something?

http://www.manicminis.com/rallygb/NeilGreg(web).jpg
(the one with the mic)
Greg Strange
Managing Director
The Broadcasting Company --> who broadcast WRR, among other things like yachting, golf and cricket. Would be funny to here Colin doing golf :D

[jonkka]

Sordo is going to win the stage

[MikeD]

Thats poor Mike. I have been following him for a few years, and he is never critial of teams. There is nothing wrong with saying you need money to get a seat.

I know what I heard ... and I think he burned his bridges. You might think otherwise. Fine by me.

[MikeD]

Hirvonen in problems????

[jonkka]

Yeah

[René]

Anyway, Meeke is already a great driver and Ogier learns to become one; nothing to compare.
It's the 3rd time Meeke participates in this rally, he has therefore more experience. However Chris is a gifted driver who can be used as a reference for Ogier. To compare the driver between them is without interest; only honours lists can be compared, and for it let us wait that them respective careers are ended.
When we look objectively at what makes Ogier this year, it is nice job.
And the performances of Meeke are of a very good level and if he doesn't have steering wheel in WRC it is not indeed his driving, which is reason.
Congratulations to these 2 drivers which for Ogier is there to earn the junior championship. And Meeke which is there to show that he's already a competitive driver.

[crazy]

Duval 3rd

[Finni]

Seems Petter is finding his old asphalt form. Funnily last year Chris crushed Petter and now its other way around.

[Finni]

Anyway, Meeke is already a great driver and Ogier learns to become one; nothing to compare.
It's the 3rd time Meeke participates in this rally, he has therefore more experience. However Chris is a gifted driver who can be used as a reference for Ogier. To compare the driver between them is without interest; only honours lists can be compared, and for it let us wait that them respective careers are ended.
When we look objectively at what makes Ogier this year, it is nice job.
And the performances of Meeke are of a very good level and if he doesn't have steering wheel in WRC it is not indeed his driving, which is reason.
Congratulations to these 2 drivers which for Ogier is there to earn the junior championship. And Meeke which is there to show that he's already a competitive driver.

Agree largely with you. It's still good that Meeke puts some overhype into perspective. Many people were already moving Ogier to WRC for next year.

In my view two driver in the world who would be readiest to deliver with wrc are Meeke and Hänninen.

[Buzz Lightyear]

I am disappointed with Aktinson, I expected much much more.

[Tom206wrc]

What happened to Hirvo by the end of SS14 :confused:

[Buzz Lightyear]

flat

[Finni]

It's funny to notice that in some stages Meeke's difference to Suzuki drivers is slimmer than Suzuki drivers difference to leading cars! That tells something about Suzuki's level (and by little part about their drivers level).

[jonkka]

What happened to Hirvo by the end of SS14 :confused:

puncture

[bt52b]

Agree largely with you. It's still good that Meeke puts some overhype into perspective. Many people were already moving Ogier to WRC for next year.

In my view two driver in the world who would be readiest to deliver with wrc are Meeke and Hänninen.

Also isn't Meeke's Clio down about 30bhp on the C2 S1600

[Tomi]

In my view two driver in the world who would be readiest to deliver with wrc are Meeke and Hänninen.

Next year is the important year to do events and result with WRC cars, if in 2010 comes new teams there will be many seats avilable, if Hänninen and Meeke are serious they will be there and compete for seats.

[Buzz Lightyear]

It's funny to notice that in some stages Meeke's difference to Suzuki drivers is slimmer than Suzuki drivers difference to leading cars! That tells something about Suzuki's level (and by little part about their drivers level).

True. Was Suzuki test programme stopped? or was that just a rumour. Monstor Tajami is being noticed by his absence. The programme is going nowhere, its pointless pursing this in 2009, no matter who the driver are. PG has lost his way a bit.

Meeke Clio is a 2005 spec, according to British press.

[bt52b]

^Would be great to see the manufacturers really fighting for drivers

[janvanvurpa]

Femur injuries are the worst of all broken bones ones...if its true i cannot see galli competing at the higher level again,many athletes careers ended after such injuries. hope its not that bad for Gigi.

No.
I have broken lots of bones in motorsport, and have several friends who broke femurs and finished the race they were in and a couple who drove themselves to the hospital.
I mentioned this to orthopedic doctor when i was in for mid-shaft tibia compound fracture and he said "Considering that it is surrounded by the strongest bones in the body, it's not surprising, especially if they have leg muscles anything like yours---and are as thick in the head as you are."

Bad news for Galli, lets hope the doctors are typically over-pessimistic.
We used to figure 6 weeks off for a broken arm or leg (no stopping for mere broken fingers or toes) but moto-cross guys are made out of tougher stuff than rally drivers.
Re: Worst
the worst break is absolutely mid shaft where the bone narrows and it is solid bone inside. There is no blood supply in the solid bone portion of the bone so healing is extremely slow.

The mid-shaft tibia break I had resulted in 7 full months in a cast, and 2 more years of problems and pain. It was the end of moto-cross for me, and it was when I started taking it easier by driving gravel rally!

[Camelopard]

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, anyway Simon Evans broke his femur after hitting a stump in Tasmania on June 27th 2004 and ran the next round of the Australian Rally Championship in South Australia on July 30th 2004.
I realise that I don't know how bad Gigi's break is and I'm not an orthopedic surgeon, but these days with a metal rod screwed into the bone recovery time is much quicker.

http://www.rallysa.com.au/media/news-archive/news014.html

[Buzz Lightyear]

3 pins in a fracture after an operation today...

[igi]

Will Duval be allowed to push to stay in 3rd place tommorow?

[COD]

Will Duval be allowed to push to stay in 3rd place tommorow?


Probably not. M-Sport engineer take his power down if he tries. And like I said on another thread, might be better to let Hirvonen past a try and get Gallis car for the events Galli will sadly have to miss

[cut the b.s.]

I know what I heard ... and I think he burned his bridges. You might think otherwise. Fine by me.

Sorry if this seems repetitive, but the reality is no money=no bridges, money=bridges

Personally I like a driver who tells it like it is, F1 has had team speak drivers for ages, its sad that after the characters we have had in rallying that teams are now owning the drivers tongues.

[Tomi]

Personally I like a driver who tells it like it is, F1 has had team speak drivers for ages.

Normally its the lousier drivers that keep on whining how everything is so wrong, the ones who can drive does their work, the most pathetic are those who start the crying after their carreer.

[A.F.F.]

Tomorrow is once again basicly just for cruising. :mark:

At what time that RC is where Wim is heading ?

[cut the b.s.]

Normally its the lousier drivers that keep on whining how everything is so wrong, .

Gronholm? Alen? McRae? How soon do people forget? 3 of the true greats, all told it like it was

[Tomi]

Gronholm? Alen? McRae? How soon do people forget? 3 of the true greats, all told it like it was

What have grönholm and alen been whining about?

[SubaruNorway]

Henning drove a rally with a broken leg, with the whole steel support thing on even :p

[Tomi]

I think Henkka did win Costa Smeralda once with a broken leg too, but this i belive is more serious enjury.

[SubaruNorway]

Latvalas off with spectator cam http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6flF6paEAQ

[c4]

Latvala's roll onboard
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/rallye-deutschland-2008-day-2-results-loeb-leads/

[COD]

What load of BS Latvala said about crash on TV:

1: he said he tried to avoid hitting the bales by going to the field. Truth is, like shown on the spectator video, that he hits the bails because he comes too fast

2: he said he had a wrong note: the note is: Long crest keep right 20 brake to tight shicane from right. HE JUST MADE A STUPID MISTAKE!

[cut the b.s.]

What have grönholm and alen been whining about?


Not whining, my point was these guys told it as it was, none of the teamspeak rubbish we get so often now

[bluuford]

Weather update: Overnight it is very cold again, so, probably soft tires are the bet in the morning (temperature maybe 11-12 degrees in the morning). No rain like I said before (Possibility is as big as big is the possibility that Rautenbach wins rally Germany).
And no rain tomorrow before 8PM in the evening. It will be quite cloudy tomorrow (Temperature will be up to 21-22 degrees).

[Tomi]

Not whining, my point was these guys told it as it was, none of the teamspeak rubbish we get so often now

Ahaa yes thats true, i missunderstood when you mentioned F1, I tought you ment eddie irwine or montoya.
It takes time before drivers get auctority and solid position, after that i belive its easier to speak out more, i cant stand teamspeak either.

[Tomi]

What load of BS Latvala said about crash on TV:

1: he said he tried to avoid hitting the bales by going to the field. Truth is, like shown on the spectator video, that he hits the bails because he comes too fast

2: he said he had a wrong note: the note is: Long crest keep right 20 brake to tight shicane from right. HE JUST MADE A STUPID MISTAKE!

yes, he screwed up big time, the guy is spoiled and stubborn, Wilson should give him a hard time for a while.

[A.F.F.]

For the record, Latvala and Anttila should consentrate more on building the notes.

[Buzz Lightyear]

all will be forgotten with latvala in new zealand... he will set amazing times and be the toast of finland...

[Ranger]

Seems Petter is finding his old asphalt form. Funnily last year Chris crushed Petter and now its other way around.

Chris had a puncture, and launch control problems.

[jparker]

Good morning.
So, who is going to be in front of the other(s)?
Duval vs. Hirvonen
H. Solberg vs. Aava vs. JML

I think it's not over yet.

10 min to go

[MikeD]

So far Mikko has really impressed me on this rally. He is becomming a good tarmac driver and he's still extremely consistent. He has been in the points on all rallies (except one) for the last 1½ years.

Latvala is turning into a different story though...

[MikeD]

Loeb stalled in one of the hairpins. He seems to make small mistakes once he backs off.

[N.O.T]

Someone forgot to advise Duval for ss01 as it seems.

[jparker]

Henning: I'm not save, not save till the end of the day

:) He feels the pressure

[N.O.T]

LOEB S. / ELENA D."Just engine stalled in one hairpin close to end. There is lot of hairpins, easy to made mistake."

SORDO D. / MARTÍ M."Good start, I just lost something in the middle section of stage."

DUVAL F. / PIVATO P. "It was not quite bad, just I lost one second in last corner."

HIRVONEN M. / LEHTINEN J."I drove well, but at the end I stalled engine and lost valuable seconds. It was very tight narrow hairpin close to end."

[jparker]

Someone forgot to advise Duval for ss01 as it seems.
They will soon :)

[jparker]

Latvala is turning into a different story though...

Yep, he keeps doing it.

[N.O.T]

Duval increases lead to 8 seconds...

[N.O.T]

LOEB S. / ELENA D. "I'm driving good rhythm, no risks. No problem."

SORDO D. / MARTÍ M. "I drove slowly, taking no risks. But OK, I'm happy."

DUVAL F. / PIVATO P. "It's close, but I wan't risk in first loop, checking the pacenotes. Third place should be good, but I preffer to finish."

HIRVONEN M. / LEHTINEN J. "We will go flat out and tried to catch Duval, nothing else to do. Is better to fight than go slow."

[MikeD]

Info:
The final stage (Circus Maximus) will be live on Eurosport 2

[Buzz Lightyear]

No power steering for Meeke!! Drops 40s to Ogier etc..

[Ghostwalker]

so what do you think? will Duval stay in 3rd or will he "get a problem" to let Miko take 3rd?

[cut the b.s.]

Info:
The final stage (Circus Maximus) will be live on Eurosport 2

any online links?

[tmx]

I think Mr. Wilson will let Duval take third. He finally find it comfortable to drive the car, but it's too late now.

[sp0+]

Although i am against "team orders" and i wish this won't happen, I think that Wilson will "give" third place to Mikko, because one point in drivers and manufacturers championship is very valuable,and as long as Dudu goes for nothing for the time being...........

[ShiftingGears]

Seems Petter is finding his old asphalt form. Funnily last year Chris crushed Petter and now its other way around.

That is because Chris has had damper problems, launch control problems and a puncture.

[Brother John]

Why won't Duval take 3rd place?
His Sponsor has been paid for that car and Duval says, he has already a contract for 3 years!
It´s al about money and M-Sport = a company that wants to make money! :s mokin:

[COD]

For the record, Latvala and Anttila should consentrate more on building the notes.

Like I said, nothing wrong with notes, just the driver

[N.O.T]

Hirvonen lost some time on split 2....

[A.F.F.]

Like I said, nothing wrong with notes, just the driver

Exactly.

[N.O.T]

Duval attacks on split 3....

[MikeD]

I don't think Duval will give up 3rd place .... team orders or not.

[A.F.F.]

Mikko can't pass Duval without team orders :mark:

[Viking]

That is because Chris has had damper problems, launch control problems and a puncture.

Nah, Petter is crushing Chris in every stage, Subaru needs to get a better second driver bring in Pons or Martin, Petter clearly #1 in team, Chris only complaining on the car and can not get his setup right.......

Okey only joking :D

[N.O.T]

Its a good and honorable thing if we don't have team orders...the farce of Turkey was enough i think...

[bt52b]

What load of BS Latvala said about crash on TV:

1: he said he tried to avoid hitting the bales by going to the field. Truth is, like shown on the spectator video, that he hits the bails because he comes too fast

2: he said he had a wrong note: the note is: Long crest keep right 20 brake to tight shicane from right. HE JUST MADE A STUPID MISTAKE!

Co-drivers normally don't let their drivers blame them if they didn't make a mistake. How long before JML corrects his explanation?

[MikeD]

Its a good and honorable thing if we don't have team orders...the farce of Turkey was enough i think...

My thoughts exately. It will do Ford no good using team ordes.

[N.O.T]

Duval 7 seconds faster than Loeb....

[MikeD]

Amazing time from Duval ... wow

[N.O.T]

yes every driver looks amazing when Loeb is cruising....

[Langdale Forest]

Amazing time from Duval ... wow

Nothing compared to last year though.

[crazy]

Sordo need to wake up.

[MikeD]

Hirvonen says he will drive safely to take 4th....

[N.O.T]

LOEB S. / ELENA D. "I just tried to engine not stalled like during first pass and keep good rhythm.

SORDO D. / MARTÍ M. "At the moment is everything OK, perfect. We have to be carefull, I don't drive maximum attack."

DUVAL F. / PIVATO P. "Not bad, but Sebastien not driving on hundred per cent. But I'm happy, I set faster time."

HIRVONEN M. / LEHTINEN J. "Francois is really very fast. Gap is too big now, don't want to make mistake."

only team orders can give 3rd to Hirvonen now...the overall difference is 11 seconds

[A.F.F.]

And Mikko lost the title....

[Viking]

"from sofa to tarmac king" Henning needs to push a little bit more, it will be close to Aava

[tmx]

no one knows that yet, even though the odds are against him. just finish every single rally and hope his rival goes off or have problem.

[N.O.T]

And Mikko lost the title....

well lets be honest if mikko was 3rd it wouldn't make such a big difference anyway....the thing is that Mikko is not near the level of Loeb yet and i doubt if he can reach it soon. so the title will go to the most deserving one. however the difference is still small and 1 retirement can change things in the remaining rounds....

[MikeD]

This is what Ford must have feared the most. Duval faster than the BP Ford drivers but not faster than the Citroën boys.

Perhaps they should have put Duval in the BP Ford for the tarmac events taking the pressure of Latvala.

[tmx]

so if mikko would win the title this year, he shouldn't deserve it and should hand it over to loeb?

[A.F.F.]

well lets be honest if mikko was 3rd it wouldn't make such a big difference anyway....the thing is that Mikko is not near the level of Loeb yet and i doubt if he can reach it soon. so the title will go to the most deserving one. however the difference is still small and 1 retirement can change things in the remaining rounds....

That is what I meant. Mikko can dream of a title until he learn to drive on tarmac, or Loeb retire from rallying. He can't challenge Loeb, Sordo and Duval on tarmac so it's automaticly five points away from the chase, in every tarmac rally. So, he basicly what he needs is a twenty points lead from gravel rallies :mark:

[Sulland]

Henning/Cato impresses on asfalt. But need a bit more speed to keep 7th.

First points on asfalt !!

[N.O.T]

so if mikko would win the title this year, he shouldn't deserve it and should hand it over to loeb?

yes

[MikeD]

That is what I meant. Mikko can dream of a title until he learn to drive on tarmac, or Loeb retire from rallying. He can't challenge Loeb, Sordo and Duval on tarmac so it's automaticly five points away from the chase, in every tarmac rally. So, he basicly what he needs is a twenty points lead from gravel rallies :mark:

There are only two tarmac rallies next year. Maybe that's his chance....

[N.O.T]

There are only two tarmac rallies next year. Maybe that's his chance....

yes because he proved he is faster than Loeb on gravel....

[A.F.F.]

There are only two tarmac rallies next year. Maybe that's his chance....

Maybe, two tarmac rallies meant ten points which he can take by winning five gravel rallies. Then they are even with Loeb. I see light from the end of the tunnel :)

[alleskids]

Yesterday Malcolm Wilson told that teamorders were not necessarily, seeing the much faster pace Hirvonen had over Duval, so he could easily pass Duval on the road. Yeh, right Malcom.
So, Duval has a 3 year contract with Stobart, or with the sponsor Structo?

[MikeD]

yes because he proved he is faster than Loeb on gravel....

No, but he has outscored Loeb on points on gravel so far this year. Of course he did need Rautencrash in Jordan and tactics in Turkey :D

[crazy]

I heard somewhere that the sponsor is paying for 3 rally.

[MikeD]

Ha! Colin (WRR) has just said what I said before - that Duval would be promoted to the BP Ford team for the two remaining tarmac rallies - and put JML in the Stobart for those two tarmac events. Interesting.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Good theory from World Rally Radio Colin... drops Latvala for Tarmac and replace with Duval

[N.O.T]

can they do that ???? is it allowed by the FIA ??

[Viking]

Nah, Petter is crushing Chris in every stage, Subaru needs to get a better second driver bring in Pons or Martin, Petter clearly #1 in team, Chris only complaining on the car and can not get his setup right.......

Okey only joking :D

since I got no comments, I take it back, not joking :)

[Brother John]

Yesterday Malcolm Wilson told that teamorders were not necessarily, seeing the much faster pace Hirvonen had over Duval, so he could easily pass Duval on the road. Yeh, right Malcom.
So, Duval has a 3 year contract with Stobart, or with the sponsor Structo?

Stucto it is. They will just announce later this year in which team Duval will drive! :s mokin:

[Finni]

That is what I meant. Mikko can dream of a title until he learn to drive on tarmac, or Loeb retire from rallying. He can't challenge Loeb, Sordo and Duval on tarmac so it's automaticly five points away from the chase, in every tarmac rally. So, he basicly what he needs is a twenty points lead from gravel rallies :mark:

Germany is Dudu's special. I expect tight battles between Mikko and Francois in other asphalt rallies. Sordo is has tougher bone to beat. Loeb = impossible.

[Brother John]

since I got no comments, I take it back, not joking :)

Comments come at the next rally! :p ;)

[User]

can they do that ???? is it allowed by the FIA ??
Yes. Second driver can be replaced. Like Sainz replaced Duval in Turkey 2005.

[MikeD]

can they do that ???? is it allowed by the FIA ??

Yes - it's the same that they have done with H.Solberg (Stobart & Munchi's) ... and the entrylists haven't been made yet for Catalunya & Tour de Corse.

[Viking]

can they do that ???? is it allowed by the FIA ??

Yes, they can change 2`nd driver, but not later than 5 weeks before the rally.

[MikeD]

Stucto it is. They will just announce later this year in which team Duval will drive! :s mokin:

And Stucto owns the car ... it's not an M-Sport Stobart car. I also think that's why it's hard to impose team orders on Duval. He could have entered as a privateer instead of under the Stobart banner. (Car also run/prepared by R-Tec, not M-Sport)

[N.O.T]

DUVAL F. / PIVATO P. "Eleven seconds is really lot. But it was hard. For me it is very good."

SORDO D. / MARTÍ M. "I'm more relaxed. Superspecial will be more easy than normal stage."

LOEB S. / ELENA D. "For sure, we not far to another win in Germany. I'm happy. Dani is next to us, so it is good also for championship."

HIRVONEN M. / LEHTINEN J. "Yes, game over. It must some miracle happens, but I don't think so."

[User]

The car that Duval is driving now, (EO56 TZR), took third place last year with Mikko :d

[Viking]

Can I rub it in even more? even Henning Solberg on tarmac with bent steering is faster than Atko :D

[Buzz Lightyear]

Meeke fastest junior by 24s! Hopefully the next stage will cement his result.

[MikeD]

If this result stand after Circus Maximus - then the PH-Sport team would have taken 4 points from the BP Ford team if they had been an M2 team. So if Citroën loses the Manu title by less than 4 points they will be kicking themselves big time.

[malscar]

Can I rub it in even more? even Henning Solberg on tarmac with bent steering is faster than Atko :D


And a bite. If Hennig is faster, then why is he 48 seconds behind Atko?

[N.O.T]

If this result stand after Circus Maximus - then the PH-Sport team would have taken 4 points from the BP Ford team if they had been an M2 team. So if Citroën loses the Manu title by less than 4 points they will be kicking themselves big time.

well without paying drivers the cost to run an M2 team would be too much and the manufacturers championship apart from publicity doesn't bring millions.

[Brother John]

If this result stand after Circus Maximus - then the PH-Sport team would have taken 4 points from the BP Ford team if they had been an M2 team. So if Citroën loses the Manu title by less than 4 points they will be kicking themselves big time.

WRC Circus Maximus would be the best name for the hole championship. :p :D

[Buzz Lightyear]

Is this possible from Kris Meeke!! A plug in engine bay came off 1km from stage end. Dropped 7 mins.

[matSLO]

Meeke out on last proper stage (very bad time)?? Anyone know more? Tragic end of rally for him...

[c4]

Sensor in engine bay came off, lost 7m
http://krismeeke.blogspot.com/

[Jaanus]

last stage live:

http://www.tvchannelsfree.com/watch/4898/EuroSport-2-UK.html

[SubaruNorway]

last stage live:

http://www.tvchannelsfree.com/watch/4898/EuroSport-2-UK.html

It won't run, is it supposed to start by it self?

[White Sauron]

It won't run, is it supposed to start by it self?

You should install RealPlayer to watch it.

[Xsara Fan]

It won't run, is it supposed to start by it self?

Try this: rtsp://mobistar.live.qt.telemakstream.n ... k_umts.sdp (rtsp://mobistar.live.qt.telemakstream.net/qtlive/qtbcast.mobistar.telemak/eurosport2_uk_umts.sdp)

[COD]

Co-drivers normally don't let their drivers blame them if they didn't make a mistake. How long before JML corrects his explanation?


He didn't say it was the co-drivers fault, he said he made a wrong note to that place. But for me sounded like a right note, just a simple error by the driver coming into that place

[alleskids]

Has Sweden conquered Norway this weekend? Mikkelsen has become a Swede on Eurosport2.

[alleskids]

If Duvalis driving the BP/abu dhabi/karcher/castrol/ etc car, will Structo still have to pay for the car? Or will Latvalla drive the Stobart Stucto car ? In that case, they must make sure the Structo name is readable upside down, so the sponsors will get publicity when Latvalla is rolling the car :) .

[N.O.T]

Is the last stage on ?? i see no stage times at all....

[Woodeye]

Ha! Colin (WRR) has just said what I said before - that Duval would be promoted to the BP Ford team for the two remaining tarmac rallies - and put JML in the Stobart for those two tarmac events. Interesting.

That would be stupid from Ford. It's not worthwhile to give chance to someone who has a great future BEHIND him...

[White Sauron]

That would be stupid from Ford. It's not worthwhile to give chance to someone who has a great future BEHIND him...

I think it's worth trying:
Duval can bring good results now, whilst Latvala can gain necessary experience for the future without any pressure!

[Buzz Lightyear]

If they are serious about winning Manufacturer titles, they need to make swift changes. everyone knew it was too early for Latvala to step up, now it is being proven.

[N]

He'll never swap Latvala for someone else this season.
Remember that this is Duval's best performing rally out of all the rallies this year. He won't be so quick in Spain or Corsica. But I must say well done to Duval, he showed another good drive and it's a shame he doesn't have a full season drive.

[White Sauron]

He'll never swap Latvala for someone else this season.
Remember that this is Duval's best performing rally out of all the rallies this year. He won't be so quick in Spain or Corsica. But I must say well done to Duval, he showed another good drive and it's a shame he doesn't have a full season drive.

Anyway, even in Spain and France Francois Duval will be quicker than Latvala. It's evident.

[N]

Why doesn't wrc.com have the results, I'm following the results on Suzuki's Mobile Rally site and they are there, but not on wrc.com...? :?

[RS]

I am delighted to see that Wilson's masterplan backfired and all Duval managed to do was take points of Hirvonen and the Ford team (unless he takes some time penalties on the way back to service)

It would seem to make sense to put Dudu in the car for Corsica and Catalunya. JML is just not reliable enough yet and Sordo is likely to perform well there and take good points for Citroen.

Good drive from Mikko, I had forgotten how good he is on tarmac. Actually convincingly quicker than JML for about the first time since Monte.

[Daniel]

I am delighted to see that Wilson's masterplan backfired and all Duval managed to do was take points of Hirvonen and the Ford team (unless he takes some time penalties on the way back to service)

It would seem to make sense to put Dudu in the car for Corsica and Catalunya. JML is just not reliable enough yet and Sordo is likely to perform well there and take good points for Citroen.

Good drive from Mikko, I had forgotten how good he is on tarmac. Actually convincingly quicker than JML for about the first time since Monte.

Methinks the FIA and Malcom had a cordial chat about how they view the use of other teams in team orders in a very dim view. We all know Malcolm would sell his left testicle to get the best results for his factory drivers and there's no way he would have willingly allowed Duval to stay in front of Mikko.

[c4]

Vids including Aava's off
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/adac-rallye-deutschland-2008-final-results-loeb-wins/

[Brother John]

If Duvalis driving the BP/abu dhabi/karcher/castrol/ etc car, will Structo still have to pay for the car? Or will Latvalla drive the Stobart Stucto car ? In that case, they must make sure the Structo name is readable upside down, so the sponsors will get publicity when Latvalla is rolling the car :) .

Structo have bought the car. Only service and parts must be paid. :s mokin:

[alleskids]

So only registration will be under BP Ford banner, if Duval wil be the tarmac driver for BP Ford, and Latvalla wil drive his normal BP Ford car?

[Mauri A]

Good theory from World Rally Radio Colin... drops Latvala for Tarmac and replace with Duval
Molto, molto stupido! What Latvala needs is kms on tarmac. We need drivers who can master tarmac, gravel and snow, no gravel or tarmac specialists. More kms on gravel for Sordo and more kms for Latvala on tarmac!

[HaCo]

Don't if it has been posted, but Latvala's off: http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=1733282495

Mauri: they could drop him to an M2 team, where he could get experience without any pressure. Would that still be stupid? But of course that would be stupid for Duval, because he gets the pressure in his place.

[Mauri A]

Don't if it has been posted, but Latvala's off: http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=1733282495

Mauri: they could drop him to an M2 team, where he could get experience without any pressure. Would that still be stupid? But of course that would be stupid for Duval, because he gets the pressure in his place.
Good point, but I think experience without pressure is not enough!

[Motorsportfun]

http://www.racingworld.it/rally/notizia.php?idtitolo=5163&url=wrc-galli-sta-bene-riceve-le-visite-dei-fordisti-e-sordo

Team-mates and Citroen's Dani Sordo visited Gigi Galli this evening in hospital in Trier.

[MartijnS]

Very nice action of those guys! :)

We got back from the rally yesterday, another great wrc experience with 4 stages on Friday and 4 yesterday. Pics are online, the video will be there within an half hour @ http://www.rallymedia.nl !

http://www.rallymedia.nl/images/2008/rallyedeutschland/Aava%204.jpg

http://www.rallymedia.nl/images/2008/rallyedeutschland/Atkinson%206.jpg

http://www.rallymedia.nl/images/2008/rallyedeutschland/Duval%205.jpg

http://www.rallymedia.nl/images/2008/rallyedeutschland/Merksteijnjr%202.jpg

[J4MIE]

Methinks the FIA and Malcom had a cordial chat about how they view the use of other teams in team orders in a very dim view. We all know Malcolm would sell his left testicle to get the best results for his factory drivers and there's no way he would have willingly allowed Duval to stay in front of Mikko.

Actually I think Malcolm Wilson has had a few years now of not forcing drivers to take penalties unlike back in the McRae/Sainz days. He let Mikko win in Norway last year and also didn't get him to take a penalty in Germany after Marcus's mistake. Which would have meant a much better chance of Marcus winning the championship.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Molto, molto stupido! What Latvala needs is kms on tarmac. We need drivers who can master tarmac, gravel and snow, no gravel or tarmac specialists. More kms on gravel for Sordo and more kms for Latvala on tarmac!

he can have the kms, but as m2 driver. what part of that is hard to understand?

[jparker]

he can have the kms, but as m2 driver. what part of that is hard to understand?

I think it's different, works seat is more demanding.

[bluuford]

Actually I think Malcolm Wilson has had a few years now of not forcing drivers to take penalties unlike back in the McRae/Sainz days. He let Mikko win in Norway last year and also didn't get him to take a penalty in Germany after Marcus's mistake. Which would have meant a much better chance of Marcus winning the championship.

We can add that Malcolm did allowed Latvala to win in Sweden this year as well. In Citroen, it is clearly fixed that if Loeb and Sordo are close to each other then Loeb should be first.

[Karukera]

Another Historical win by Loeb right after Finland, 7 wins in a row, it will be very hard to break.
Well done Citroën 1-2, Big points off Ford again, it was smart to nominate Duval in a Ford M2, the Walloon is still fast even with wee testing.

Funny to hear Pivato delivering the notes in Walloon language.

Hope Galli recovers quick and well.

Now the WRC caravan is heading to NZ, Vamonos muchachos !

No tactics, no headaches.

[Simmi]

I think it's different, works seat is more demanding.

Which is why he should do more learning out of the pressurised environment of a works seat

[Karukera]

Actually I think Malcolm Wilson has had a few years now of not forcing drivers to take penalties unlike back in the McRae/Sainz days. He let Mikko win in Norway last year and also didn't get him to take a penalty in Germany after Marcus's mistake. Which would have meant a much better chance of Marcus winning the championship.

Fair and true plus the fact that the entire WRC community had an eye on Wilson's decision, which might have made it easier for him... :s tare:

[JoostSchouten]

Right now the video is online at my site!

http://i34.tinypic.com/33xyhcz.png (http://www.rallymedia.nl)
Download it at: Rallymedia.nl (http://www.Rallymedia.nl) -> Video -> ADAC Deutschland Rally 2008
Or via Youtube in high quality: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x0MqqNuWJg

[Daniel]

Actually I think Malcolm Wilson has had a few years now of not forcing drivers to take penalties unlike back in the McRae/Sainz days. He let Mikko win in Norway last year and also didn't get him to take a penalty in Germany after Marcus's mistake. Which would have meant a much better chance of Marcus winning the championship.

What I was talking about was tactics which involve other teams. IMHO what Malcolm does with the cars in Yabba Dabba Dooby Ford team is his business but when he starts using cars from other teams I have a problem with it. No one likes to see tactics like we saw back with Colin and Carlos but it's a team sport and sometimes you have to take a hit for a team mate.

Citroen and Peugeot have both made efforts to "buy" titles by spending lots of money on drivers and development and also fielding lots of cars on rallies. But always under their own banner except for the Kronos year but I think that's beside the point.

If Malcolm wants to field a 4 or 5 car team with Mikko, Jari-Matti, Gigi, Henning and Duval then he should find the guts to field it and not piss about with fielding world class drivers in an "M2" team.

[jacko]

It was a very good rally generally, the wheater was perfect (although i prefer some rain in the nights for the extra dimension on the track), we did see 3 stages on friday when we decided after stage 4 to go to Trier and visit Parc Ferme and that was a lucky choice :)
Almost did order a 1/2 meter bratwurst, but we decided to eat in a restaurant.
Saturday it was a hurry on show, we saw stages 7,9 and 10, the first 2 of them only to watch the first 10 cars and we did the same on 11,13 and 15, that was the maximum but it was possible. We took some extra km's but we had almost no traffic. About the rally, we saw plenty of action, it was clear that Citroen was too strong, Duval was still finding the perfect settings and i think Hirvonen's speed is really good. Also nice stage times for Petter Solberg during the rally, but Subaru (and even more Suzuki) is still far away for winning a rally.
Next year there's no WRC round in Germany but i'm looking forward to 2010 :)

[darkstar]

our video is online now, 11 minutes of action from deutschland rallye 2008: www.rallye-mad.com (http://www.rallye-mad.com/html/_.html)

deutschland rallye 2008 (http://www.rallye-mad.com/html/_.html)

http://www.rallye-mad.com/assets/images/deutschlandrallye-2008.jpg (http://www.rallye-mad.com/html/_.html)

[Xsara Fan]

Sorry, guys, but IMHO THIS:


our video is online now, 11 minutes of action from deutschland rallye 2008: www.rallye-mad.com (http://www.rallye-mad.com/html/_.html)

deutschland rallye 2008 (http://www.rallye-mad.com/html/_.html)

http://www.rallye-mad.com/assets/images/deutschlandrallye-2008.jpg (http://www.rallye-mad.com/html/_.html)

...is THE BEST video from Rally of Germany.

[darkstar]

Sorry, guys, but IMHO THIS:



...is THE BEST video from Rally of Germany.

thanks a lot!!! :)


here are some pictures too, from shakedown and servicepark:

www.rallye-mad.com (http://www.rallye-mad.com/html/_1.html)

deutschland rallye 08 (http://www.rallye-mad.com/html/_1.html)

http://www.rallye-mad.com/assets/images/db_images/db_DSC_03113.jpg (http://www.rallye-mad.com/html/_1.html)

http://www.rallye-mad.com/assets/images/db_images/db_DSC_01225.jpg (http://www.rallye-mad.com/html/_1.html)

http://www.rallye-mad.com/assets/images/db_images/db_DSC_06053.jpg (http://www.rallye-mad.com/html/_1.html)

[SubaruNorway]

our video is online now, 11 minutes of action from deutschland rallye 2008: www.rallye-mad.com (http://www.rallye-mad.com/html/_.html)

deutschland rallye 2008 (http://www.rallye-mad.com/html/_.html)

http://www.rallye-mad.com/assets/images/deutschlandrallye-2008.jpg (http://www.rallye-mad.com/html/_.html)

Nice video darkstar! you have a pm ;)

[darkstar]

foto´s from friday are online now, the stages are ruwertal/fell and schönes moselland:

www.rallye-mad.com (http://www.rallye-mad.com/html/_1.html)

deutschland rallye 08 (http://www.rallye-mad.com/html/_1.html)

http://www.rallye-mad.com/assets/images/db_images/db_DSC_07003.jpg (http://www.rallye-mad.com/html/_1.html)

http://www.rallye-mad.com/assets/images/db_images/db_DSC_00947.jpg (http://www.rallye-mad.com/html/_1.html)

http://www.rallye-mad.com/assets/images/db_images/db_DSC_08711.jpg (http://www.rallye-mad.com/html/_1.html)

[Veekaa]

video online on www.rallyephotos.be (http://www.rallyephotos.be/)
or www.rallyephotos.be/Video/hq.html (http://rallyephotos.be/Video/hq.html) for bigger size video

enjoy :)

[CABAIO E'LONA]

Interesting sponsor!! Am I missing something here?
http://www.vicari.com/

Gareth Jones Sponsor? :S

edit: this is the real sponsor of Jones.. :)

http://www.andrew-vicari.com/home.php

[AndyRAC]

Couldn't the organisers use the Nordschleife as a stage? It's only down the road isn't it?

[J.Lindstroem]

Couldn't the organisers use the Nordschleife as a stage? It's only down the road isn't it?

That whould have been exciting. Don't know though how the conservative rallyfans whould react on rallying going closer and closer to track-racing!

[HaCo]

In the past there was a stage of the Deutschland Rally on the Nordschleife, I've been there spectating it and it was quite boring to watch.

Anyway, Deutschland Rallye is quite far from what it was in the past, as well as the Baumholder stages (which wasn't even Deutschland but Hunsruck). Everything has to be changed to WRC rules, which is a big shame.

[AndyRAC]

In the past there was a stage of the Deutschland Rally on the Nordschleife, I've been there spectating it and it was quite boring to watch.

Anyway, Deutschland Rallye is quite far from what it was in the past, as well as the Baumholder stages (which wasn't even Deutschland but Hunsruck). Everything has to be changed to WRC rules, which is a big shame.

Everything is changed in the WRC to make it boring. We can't have anything exciting now, can we?