MY WISH Vanderbilt Cup = IRL Championship Trophy

[ChicagocrewIRL]

With reverent respect towards the ChampCar side of its heritage, the IRL should adapt the Vanderbilt Cup as its SEASON CHAMPIONSHIP TROPHY.

The current IRL Trophy is a generic trophy without character or heritage. The Vanderbilt Cup is the second greatest open wheel trophy after the Borg Warner Trophy and as such should occupy this spot as the combined Series' trophy.

[Phoenixent]

With reverent respect towards the ChampCar side of its heritage, the IRL should adapt the Vanderbilt Cup as its SEASON CHAMPIONSHIP TROPHY.

The current IRL Trophy is a generic trophy without character or heritage. The Vanderbilt Cup is the second greatest open wheel trophy after the Borg Warner Trophy and as such should occupy this spot as the combined Series' trophy.


I agree with you on the Vanderbilt Cup should be the Season Championship Trophy. The current cup is a modern art designed travesty. The old IRL/CART/USAC cup was nicer looking than the new cup.

http://www.motorsportpedia.com//images/5/5a/CC_Champ_Trophy.jpg http://www.motorsportpedia.com//images/f/fc/IRL_Champ_Trophy.jpg

[nigelred5]

It's cartainly a more attractive trophy, but do you really think King George is going to award a trophy with little to no real connection to indy and oval racing? That's like handing out gold statues of a bald guy at the grammy's.
It would be nice, but Im not seeing it happening.

[Phoenixent]

George is going to award a trophy with little to no real connection to indy and oval racing?


I believe that it was Penske that came up with the idea on resurrecting the Vanderbilt Cup for the US 500 in 1996. The trophy was twice award to open wheel racing great Ralph DePalma the 1915 Indy 500 winner. Drivers like Wilbur Shaw three time winner of the Indy 500 competed for this trophy losing out to Tazio Nuvolari and Bernd Rosemeyer. Oval racing at Michigan drivers Jimmy Vasser, Alex Zanardi, Greg Moore, and Tony Kanaan have won this trophy. So it has both Indy and oval heritage along with road racing. It would be a perfect fit.

[Chris R]

using the Vanderbilt cup for the season championship is an awesome idea - hopefully that is what happens.....

[champ car dave]

Agreed!!!!!!!!

[champ car dave]

Maybe if were lucky TG will call the series the "INDY CAR WORLD SERIES" too!!

[SoTex]

When you lose a war, the winner (IRL) dictates what happens. Tony George is gonna dump the Borg Warner Trophy along with anything else he despises about CART. All he wants is a few teams, Long Beach and the knowledge that he is the King and all should kneel before him. He is popping champagne bottles right now and gloating.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

When you lose a war, the winner (IRL) dictates what happens. Tony George is gonna dump the Borg Warner Trophy along with anything else he despises about CART. All he wants is a few teams, Long Beach and the knowledge that he is the King and all should kneel before him. He is popping champagne bottles right now and gloating.

huh ????? The Borg Warner Trophy was part of CART ??? whaaaaaaat ???? I wish people would take their meds before posting.

[SoTex]

huh ????? The Borg Warner Trophy was part of CART ??? whaaaaaaat ???? I wish people would take their meds before posting.

Sorry meant to say Vanderbilt Cup. No need for meds just a error on my part. That is what happens when typing too fast.

[Sandfly]

No. The Vanderbilt Cup preceded the founding of the I-500 and is a distraction. TG will not acknowlwegde the Vanderbilt Cup and it would be improper for him to use that trophy as anything other than display in his museum of motorsport memorabilia.

The use of the Vanderbilt Cup replica began after the promoters of the Savannah Indy Lights Race in 1997, educated the leadership of CART, beggining in 1993, on the history of road racing that predated the speedway and included many of the participants of the first 500, many years later. The first three Grand Prize of America races, 1908, 1910 & 1911, were put on by the Savannah Automobile Club for the ACA in an effort to secure the Vanderbilt Cup Race , which they did in 1911.

After being made aware of the significance of the Vandibilt Races, the CART leadership approached the family and recieved rights to the use of the name and the authorization to produce a replica trophy.

I would doubt that TG would have the audacity to claim use of a road racing trophy that predated his speedway, even though he now apparently "owns" all the history of motorsport by agreement with KK.

[jimispeed]

No. The Vanderbilt Cup preceded the founding of the I-500 and is a distraction. TG will not acknowlwegde the Vanderbilt Cup and it would be improper for him to use that trophy as anything other than display in his museum of motorsport memorabilia.

The use of the Vanderbilt Cup replica began after the promoters of the Savannah Indy Lights Race in 1997, educated the leadership of CART, beggining in 1993, on the history of road racing that predated the speedway and included many of the participants of the first 500, many years later. The first three Grand Prize of America races, 1908, 1910 & 1911, were put on by the Savannah Automobile Club for the ACA in an effort to secure the Vanderbilt Cup Race , which they did in 1911.

After being made aware of the significance of the Vandibilt Races, the CART leadership approached the family and recieved rights to the use of the name and the authorization to produce a replica trophy.

I would doubt that TG would have the audacity to claim use of a road racing trophy that predated his speedway, even though he now apparently "owns" all the history of motorsport by agreement with KK.


That is exactly why he should embrace the trophy, and the series he absorbed.

I hope he has the heart to do it.

It would be a disgrace to let it die.

It would also be to his benefit for the sake of the Champcar fans.....

[ezhop7]

As much as people want to live in the past....it is time to move on to the present and the future. Give the unified series a chance to grow. Yes both the IRL and Champ Car made numerous blunders, but now they are one. Get over it, the Vanderbilt Cup is in the past we(open wheel fans must focus on building future). Even though some of you hate the 1 1/2 ovals The 90,000 fans in TEXAS love the show, just as the cheese and wine crowd likes the Long Beach party or the IOWA fans heads endure the swelting heat to watch a Indycar race. I miss the fact, that the track in Colorado is closed and there is no race in Denver. But this is life, like it or not it is time to work as one unified group.

If you ask the average American joe to name a race car driver I bet it ends up being a NASCAR driver like Jeff Gordon or Dale Earnhardt Jr. not an open wheeler. That's the problem we face and now we are under one group again we can start getting people back to watching open wheel Indycar racing. Look at the NHRA in how they have grow...lots of diversity young and old drivers, men and women, hispanics, african-americans and caucasians. It is going to take time ...remember America was not built in one day.

Open wheel racing must reconnect with the average American joe and the youth of America. The corporate sponsor will come once they see that their consumer base has an interest in watching the Indy 500 again over the Brickyard 400.

So end conclusion... start working together to bring open wheel racing back to its greatest. One day the names like Graham Rahal, Marco Andretti, and Brent Sherman will be names that the average joe recognizes. Work together.... don't let the small stuff destroy a good thing.

[jimispeed]

As much as people want to live in the past....it is time to move on to the present and the future. Give the unified series a chance to grow. Yes both the IRL and Champ Car made numerous blunders, but now they are one. Get over it, the Vanderbilt Cup is in the past we(open wheel fans must focus on building future). Even though some of you hate the 1 1/2 ovals The 90,000 fans in TEXAS love the show, just as the cheese and wine crowd likes the Long Beach party or the IOWA fans heads endure the swelting heat to watch a Indycar race. I miss the fact, that the track in Colorado is closed and there is no race in Denver. But this is life, like it or not it is time to work as one unified group.

If you ask the average American joe to name a race car driver I bet it ends up being a NASCAR driver like Jeff Gordon or Dale Earnhardt Jr. not an open wheeler. That's the problem we face and now we are under one group again we can start getting people back to watching open wheel Indycar racing. Look at the NHRA in how they have grow...lots of diversity young and old drivers, men and women, hispanics, african-americans and caucasians. It is going to take time ...remember America was not built in one day.

Open wheel racing must reconnect with the average American joe and the youth of America. The corporate sponsor will come once they see that their consumer base has an interest in watching the Indy 500 again over the Brickyard 400.

So end conclusion... start working together to bring open wheel racing back to its greatest. One day the names like Graham Rahal, Marco Andretti, and Brent Sherman will be names that the average joe recognizes. Work together.... don't let the small stuff destroy a good thing.


I'm all for the future, and advancement is extremely important when it comes to motorsports but,

Never forget the historical backbone of either series!!!

[ChicagocrewIRL]

I really don't think wanting this trophy as a respectful homage to the IRL's newly acquired CART heritage is living in the past.

To the contrary, I think it is a step forward to a great new future that includes the great heritage of CART, IndyCar, and CCWS.

[jimispeed]

I really don't think wanting this trophy as a respectful homage to the IRL's newly acquired CART heritage is living in the past.

To the contrary, I think it is a step forward to a great new future that includes the great heritage of CART, IndyCar, and CCWS.


:)

[Phoenixent]

The Vanderbilt family granted permission to CART in 1996 to create a replica which was commissioned from Tiffany & Co. same as the original trophy.

Here is a photo of Jimmy Vasser with the Vanderbilt cup after winning the 1996 US 500 at Michigan. The first major race to use the trophy since 1937.
http://shutter09.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/24/009/7F/DB/CA/1B/1RWjdLu7EbTnUv34+Q7Csb48vArU28Yr0258.jpg

[Howard Kroplick]

A history of the Vanderbilt Cup trademark was recently discussed at:

http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/index.php/blog/category/vanderbilt_cup

For fans of the early races for the Vanderbilt Cup, I have also posted 9 videos at: http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/index.php/blog/category/videos (http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/index.php/blog/category/videos)[/

Enjoy!

Howard Kroplick
East Hills, New York

[jimispeed]

A history of the Vanderbilt Cup trademark was recently discussed at:

http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/index.php/blog/category/vanderbilt_cup

For fans of the early races for the Vanderbilt Cup, I have also posted 9 videos at: http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/index.php/blog/category/videos (http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/index.php/blog/category/videos)[/

Enjoy!

Howard Kroplick
East Hills, New York


Those were all so great!

Thanks Howard!!

[nigelred5]

That is exactly why he should embrace the trophy, and the series he absorbed.

I hope he has the heart to do it.

It would be a disgrace to let it die.

It would also be to his benefit for the sake of the Champcar fans.....

see, I've got to disagree with that. He hasn't absorbed anything, he's still shovelling dirt.

I've just never understood the attachment to that trophy. I know all the history, it was a road racing trophy, but to me that would be like the NFL going out of business for 30 years and then suddenly the arena league decides since they are the only football game in town they will award the Lonmbardi trophy. How does a series that formed in 1979, out of a predominantly oval track series, claim a heritage to a trophy that had essentially been awarded 1x since the 50's? False god IMHO

I think the re-creation may have actually now been awarded by CART/Champcar as many times as the original trophy.


I will say however, the IRL trophy is not the most beautiful looking trophy, but then neither is the Harley Earl trophy with the Rocket car the Daytona 500 winner gets.

[IWUTitan90]

see, I've got to disagree with that. He hasn't absorbed anything, he's still shovelling dirt.

I've just never understood the attachment to that trophy. I know all the history, it was a road racing trophy, but to me that would be like the NFL going out of business for 30 years and then suddenly the arena league decides since they are the only football game in town they will award the Lonmbardi trophy. How does a series that formed in 1979, out of a predominantly oval track series, claim a heritage to a trophy that had essentially been awarded 1x since the 50's? False god IMHO

I think the re-creation may have actually now been awarded by CART/Champcar as many times as the original trophy.


I will say however, the IRL trophy is not the most beautiful looking trophy, but then neither is the Harley Earl trophy with the Rocket car the Daytona 500 winner gets.


I agree with you, on all points, and therefore say "No" to the Vanderbilt cup.

My suggestion, the ICS find a $erie$ $pon$or, and let them dictate what the trophy looks like.

http://www.newman-haas.com/source/photo_alumni_michaelandretti.jpg

Something like this one here.^^^^

[-Helix-]

Maybe if were lucky TG will call the series the "INDY CAR WORLD SERIES" too!!

Two races outside North America hardly constitutes a WORLD Series.

[BrentJackson]

When you lose a war, the winner (IRL) dictates what happens. Tony George is gonna dump the Borg Warner Trophy along with anything else he despises about CART. All he wants is a few teams, Long Beach and the knowledge that he is the King and all should kneel before him. He is popping champagne bottles right now and gloating.

But using the Vanderbilt Cup and the Borg Warner trophy makes sense. The Borg Warner goes to the winner of the Indy 500. The Vanderbilt goes to the winner of the Indycar championship.

What's living in the past about that? It's a historical connection to the legends of the past, yes. But one should not forget where you came from.

[Phoenixent]

I agree with you, on all points, and therefore say "No" to the Vanderbilt cup.

My suggestion, the ICS find a $erie$ $pon$or, and let them dictate what the trophy looks like.

http://www.newman-haas.com/source/photo_alumni_michaelandretti.jpg

Something like this one here.^^^^

The trophy that Michael is holding is just the old USAC Citicorp trophy at CART took when they started out. PPG did not have anything to do with it other than the placement of the logos.

The Vanderbilt trophy would be a perfect choice for the championship trophy. It will complement the Borg-Warner and cement some of the history.

[IWUTitan90]

The trophy that Michael is holding is just the old USAC Citicorp trophy at CART took when they started out. PPG did not have anything to do with it other than the placement of the logos.

The Vanderbilt trophy would be a perfect choice for the championship trophy. It will complement the Borg-Warner and cement some of the history.


You are completely missing the point.

I don't care if it was a five gallon bucket of fish heads, PPG paid $$$, and alot of it, to put their name there. Find a company willing to do that now, and let them pick out whatever they want to present the winner.

Cement what history? The Vanderbilt Cup sat dormant for almost 60 years, until it was drug out to be given to the winner of the US 500. AN OVAL Race. There are few, if any, posters here who would even know of its existance otherwise.

[Phoenixent]

You are completely missing the point.

I don't care if it was a five gallon bucket of fish heads, PPG paid $$$, and alot of it, to put their name there. Find a company willing to do that now, and let them pick out whatever they want to present the winner.

Cement what history? The Vanderbilt Cup sat dormant for almost 60 years, until it was drug out to be given to the winner of the US 500. AN OVAL Race. There are few, if any, posters here who would even know of its existance otherwise.

PPG paid out for sponsoring the series which in 1998 paid out 2.75 million for a points fund shared between the top ten and 10,000.00 for the best finish. The trophy was named to honor PPG for sponsoring the series. You can name the trophy whatever you want.

As for the history it is still part of IndyCar/Championship car history and should have a place in the new series. Just like the Borg-Warner which also is not the original trophy for that race goes to show a heritage for AOWR. The point I am trying to say is not to destroy everything for a few bucks. It is also sad that races at track like Milwaukee is no longer named in honor of driver that gave everything for the sport. Another CART deal destroy history of the almighty dollar.

[nigelred5]

Two races outside North America hardly constitutes a WORLD Series.

But No games outside of North America has been OK for a "World Series" for over a hundred years by MLB?

[nigelred5]

But using the Vanderbilt Cup and the Borg Warner trophy makes sense. The Borg Warner goes to the winner of the Indy 500. The Vanderbilt goes to the winner of the Indycar championship.

What's living in the past about that? It's a historical connection to the legends of the past, yes. But one should not forget where you came from.

That is just my point, The Indy Car series did not come from a road racing series, or history, it came from an OVAL track history, both sides of what now constitues the series. CART was born of an oval series. Therewas exactly 1 roadcourse race in it's inaugural season. Where is the evidence of an open wheel road racing series since 1908 in the CART/CCWS legacy? It is squarely in 1 and sometimes 2 series run under several differing sanctoning bodies that were only continuously operating on ovals.

Were this truly a merger of equals, where there was some sort of incorporation of BOTH sides, I might be able to agree to an extent, however it just isn't so. I agree we CC fans have to realize that there is nothing left of that history. It ended and some of the participants have elected to join a different series that happens to share an oval track origin.

[BrentJackson]

That is just my point, The Indy Car series did not come from a road racing series, or history, it came from an OVAL track history, both sides of what now constitues the series. CART was born of an oval series. Therewas exactly 1 roadcourse race in it's inaugural season. Where is the evidence of an open wheel road racing series since 1908 in the CART/CCWS legacy? It is squarely in 1 and sometimes 2 series run under several differing sanctoning bodies that were only continuously operating on ovals.

Were this truly a merger of equals, where there was some sort of incorporation of BOTH sides, I might be able to agree to an extent, however it just isn't so. I agree we CC fans have to realize that there is nothing left of that history. It ended and some of the participants have elected to join a different series that happens to share an oval track origin.

Now, you are just saying we lost so all of our history should go into the trash bin. That means you clearly want to forget all of AOW's past because the IRL won.

The Vanderbilt Cup was the root from which open wheel racing began. That, to me, makes it something worth saving.

So it was used for a road racing series - in 1908, they didn't have any other options, did they?

[jimispeed]

Now, you are just saying we lost so all of our history should go into the trash bin. That means you clearly want to forget all of AOW's past because the IRL won.

The Vanderbilt Cup was the root from which open wheel racing began. That, to me, makes it something worth saving.

So it was used for a road racing series - in 1908, they didn't have any other options, did they?


Good post....

Everyone get of the "who won" BS!!

Indycar has the opportunity to retain open wheel and all of its heritage, and should fully embrace it!!

Bring all open wheel fans along for the ride!

[BrentJackson]

Good post....

Everyone get of the "who won" BS!!

Indycar has the opportunity to retain open wheel and all of its heritage, and should fully embrace it!!

Bring all open wheel fans along for the ride!

I can't agree more. It's long past time the split got buried, along with all of the crap that it spawned. We'll always have disagreements, but this sorta garbage should go.

[call_me_andrew]

Well I think the IRL trophy is attractive.

I like to stick up for the little guy.


The Vanderbilt Cup is the second greatest open wheel trophy after the Borg Warner Trophy and as such should occupy this spot as the combined Series' trophy.

Greatest in open-wheel you say?

Telephone call from a French-speaking 800lbs. gorilla.

http://www.motorsport-total.com/bilder/2006/pr/06fia/z025.jpg

[nigelred5]

Good post....

Everyone get of the "who won" BS!!

Indycar has the opportunity to retain open wheel and all of its heritage, and should fully embrace it!!

Bring all open wheel fans along for the ride!

I am still having a very difficult time finding all of these historical links to indycar racing and the VC. ALL cars in 1908 were open wheel. Where does this idea that CART and Indycars have been road racing for the VC since 1908? It just isn't so. It isn't indycar history and it wasn't CART history.

[nigelred5]

ok typing on the ipod was killing me, but The Vanderbilt cup just is not representative of the National Championship to me, nor was it to anyone or any of the various sanctioning bodies until CART(A series that was born of Oval racing) adopted it as such. It was most often a tropy for an individual invitational race that was sometimes part of a national championship, bot more than often NOT.

I'm not implying that we should abandon road racing history, however the assumption that this same history and the Vanderbilt Cup is an inseperable part of Indycar racing history just really isn't so.

Maybe the fact that there is really no other trophy in open wheel history but the Borg-Warner trophy is part of the problem.

[!!WALDO!!]

Where does this idea that CART and Indycars have been road racing for the VC since 1908? It just isn't so. It isn't indycar history and it wasn't CART history.

It hasn't. It is a rewrite of history so many people like to do. I could write 10 posts on the Vanderbilt Cup but I will not because nobody will read it because they do not like "know it alls" and do not "want the way they learned it" to be overturned.

There were the Vanderbilt races in the Teens and again in the late 1930's. Then the Cup sat until a Vanderbilt relative raced in the RCCA, an East Cost verson of the SCCA but better. Real low buck and they got the Vanderbilt Cup until CART actually had Tiffany's make a "Vanderbilt Cup" and a great firestorm got started and CART had to pay for the rights, RCCA stopped using it and the greed of CART killed the RCCA.

The CART/CCWS Vanderbilt Cup has no connection to the sport other than a Trophy.

[Phoenixent]

ok typing on the ipod was killing me, but The Vanderbilt cup just is not representative of the National Championship to me, nor was it to anyone or any of the various sanctioning bodies until CART(A series that was born of Oval racing) adopted it as such. It was most often a tropy for an individual invitational race that was sometimes part of a national championship, bot more than often NOT.

I'm not implying that we should abandon road racing history, however the assumption that this same history and the Vanderbilt Cup is an inseperable part of Indycar racing history just really isn't so.

Maybe the fact that there is really no other trophy in open wheel history but the Borg-Warner trophy is part of the problem.

Well let see were to start on this. The Vanderbilt Cup was awarded at several different venues and under two sanctioning bodies. The races that were Vanderbilt Cup races were Long Island Motor Parkway 1909 & 1910 ,Savannah 1911, Pan-Pacific Expo 1915, Santa Monica 1916 and Roosevelt Raceway 1937 & 1938. Those were races that were santioned by AAA and counted toward the National Championship. It was a race trophy and not a championship trophy until PPG left CART to the IRL taking the PPG cup with them. I would be great to keep the Vanderbilt as a Championship trophy not only for the road course history but also the memory of the other drivers that won it in the teens or bring back the International Trophy shown below either one represents drivers from around the world racing in AWOR trying to be the best.

http://shutter05.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/13/00C/37/DC/81/18/vjDWxlCu+uOV70hIWae2VUAHZ3DFp+c50280.jpg

[jimispeed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champ_Car

So it is a continuation of a series that started a long time ago.

http://sbiii.com/limppix/vand_cup.jpg

http://home.att.net/~Berliner-ultrasonics/limpvcup.html

The Vanderbilt Cup is a trophy that signifies a history in open wheel racing of North America.

I see no reason why Indycar shouldn't embrace it.

My opinion of course.

[nigelred5]

I saw no reason for the split in the first place, nor did I see any reason that it should have lasted over 12 years either, but the same reasons it did happen are the same reasons i'll go out on a short limb to say that this will never happen. He has a series' trophy that now has 12 years of his league history attached to it.

[Indy500'79]

I believe that it was Penske that came up with the idea on resurrecting the Vanderbilt Cup for the US 500 in 1996. The trophy was twice award to open wheel racing great Ralph DePalma the 1915 Indy 500 winner. Drivers like Wilbur Shaw three time winner of the Indy 500 competed for this trophy losing out to Tazio Nuvolari and Bernd Rosemeyer. Oval racing at Michigan drivers Jimmy Vasser, Alex Zanardi, Greg Moore, and Tony Kanaan have won this trophy. So it has both Indy and oval heritage along with road racing. It would be a perfect fit.


Great points. Use the Vanderbilt for the season champion and the Borg Warner for Indy.

[Alexamateo]

Has Tony Been reading the forums???!!! :p : :D

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080327/SPORTS0107/80327082/1052/SPORTS01


George also would like the series champion to receive the Vanderbilt Cup, America�s first auto racing trophy. The Cup has gone to Champ Car�s champion since 1996, but is unavailable to the IRL until the CCWS bankruptcy case is settled.
The Champ Car drivers note the olive branch George and the existing IRL teams have extended.

[tbyars]

Also, Alex, from that same article:

"To be more inclusive, George said a name change for the series is being considered. He acknowledged that 'IRL'carries a politically charged connotation with many people coming from the Champ Car side."Maybe we could get back to 'Indy Car World Series,'." George said."

Jimi....be patient. These are good signs.

[nanders]

Also, Alex, from that same article:

"To be more inclusive, George said a name change for the series is being considered. He acknowledged that 'IRL'carries a politically charged connotation with many people coming from the Champ Car side."Maybe we could get back to 'Indy Car World Series,'." George said."

Jimi....be patient. These are good signs.

On the Cavin and Kevin show Thursday evening, George said (paraphrased) "when I refer of our top series I write ICS."

He is refering to the series as the Indy Car Series now and when they get a title sponsor he will likely go to the "XXXX XXXXX XXXX Indy Car World Series." You can almost hear Paul Page saying it.

[garyshell]

WOW! Nice speech. My favorite part:


George said one of the IRL's first mistakes was stipulating 25 guaranteed spots in the Indianapolis 500 for league regulars, a move that drew considerable ire from people who thought the historic event should be open equally to all participants.
That led CART to stage a race at Michigan International Speedway on the same day as the 500.

"We shouldn't have done that," George said.

Nice to hear him admit that, this one move precipitated a lot of the anger. I really think if that had not been done, this silly war would have been over a lot sooner. And the divide amongst the fans, would neve have been so deep.

IMNSHO.

Gary

[nanders]

IMNSHO.

I didn't know you spoke Japanese.

[nigelred5]

Has Tony Been reading the forums???!!! :p : :D

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080327/SPORTS0107/80327082/1052/SPORTS01


Well butter my buns and call me a biscuit!


Of course I can pull a technicality and claim that it won't be the IRL trophy but the XYZ Indycar World Series Championship trophy ;)


Of course there is still that little matter of the bankruptcy tha needs t obe settled, and I somehow feel that's going to get drawn out and a tad bit ugly before it's closed.

[TU Homer]

I think Tony would be wise to incorporate as much indycar/champcar stuff into his series that he could. Calling the season champ trophy the Vanderbilt Trophy would be great, as would naming the series "Indycar World Series". Sure the trophy is the definitive icon against the Indy500, but it has been the champs trophy for the past several seasons.

Besides, those were champcars that raced for the original Vanderbilt Cups.

That said, you have to wonder why he did it...

[garyshell]

I think Tony would be wise to incorporate as much indycar/champcar stuff into his series that he could. Calling the season champ trophy the Vanderbilt Trophy would be great, as would naming the series "Indycar World Series". Sure the trophy is the definitive icon against the Indy500, but it has been the champs trophy for the past several seasons.

Besides, those were champcars that raced for the original Vanderbilt Cups.

That said, you have to wonder why he did it...


It builds a bridge.

It costs him $0.00 once the bankruptcy hearings are complete.

It's a nicer looking trophy than the ICS season trophy.

gary

[ChicagocrewIRL]

From Indystar.com March 28, 2008

"George also would like the series champion to receive the Vanderbilt Cup, America's first auto racing trophy. The Cup has gone to Champ Car's champion since 1996, but is unavailable to the IRL until the CCWS bankruptcy case is settled."

Wooo hoooo !!! THANKS FOR LISTENIG TO ME TONY !!!

[!!WALDO!!]

Besides, those were champcars that raced for the original Vanderbilt Cups.

For more years than the Champ Car, the RCCA ran for it until it was more or less stolen.

I had a better idea. Put a Championship inside a Championship and award the Vanderbilt for that.
Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Sonoma and Belle Isle.

[jimispeed]

I don't know about you guys, but I think THIS IS GREAT NEWS!!!

[garyshell]

I don't know about you guys, but I think THIS IS GREAT NEWS!!!


I was WAITING for this message from YOU! I knew it would make you VERY happy!

I agree it is great news. If nothing else it shows a willingness to extend an olive branch.

Gary

[!!WALDO!!]

"but is unavailable to the IRL until the CCWS bankruptcy case is settled."


In the 2003 Bankrupcy Paperwork still shows that Tiffany's wasn't paid for this very valuable cup.

These trophies need to be offered to the Series Sponsor and can be attractive to them.

Do you think the Sprint Cup would have value if it was "Sprint presenting the Vanderbilt Cup?"

The value is in the naming rights, the idea I have is something that could be offered for very little money.

[TU Homer]

This is a bunch of *****. TG is turning his idea into what he despised. Is that acceptable? Sorry, I know it's a dead horse, but I struggle with his dismantling of racing and all I loved about racing. Now he wants a facsimile of what he destroyed?


-TU

[Phoenixent]

This is a bunch of *****. TG is turning his idea into what he despised. Is that acceptable? Sorry, I know it's a dead horse, but I struggle with his dismantling of racing and all I loved about racing. Now he wants a facsimile of what he destroyed?


-TU

His idea was to make Indy the corner stone of the IRL series. It is the same thing that he wanted before 1995 to make Indy more than just a race. He did not despise Indycar World Series (CART) only the idiots that ran it.

If you look at how it was done he had one goal to take the power away from Penske, Forsythe, Green Ganassi, Patrick, Haas and put it were it belonged at IMS where it was before 1979.

What you loved about racing is different than what I loved about Championship Cars. I loved the era when craftsmen build cars around the country to run at the Greatest Race. What CART did was great but would have come to an end wither we liked or not.

Just like the Roaring 20's the ride ends and something else better will replace it. It will just take time.

[nigelred5]

His IDEA was essentially the only way possible to differentiate his IDEA from CART at the time.

I cannot for the life of me understand why people arenlt allowed to change. People learn from experience and change. in politics, in business, in life, and in racing. The world is not a static environment, and racing is a prime example of that. More of the same is not always good and TG and those around him realize this.

[MAX_THRUST]

Forgive me for not reading all the posts in this thread,

Why can't one be used for the Indy 500,
One for the winner of all the oval races, IRL trophy
The other for all road races, CCWS CART trophy.

This way we get a champion for the ovals, a champion for the road courses.

Hell with lets create a new trophy, for the overall champion!!!

To be honest I don't care about trophy's or the old pollitics of the IRL v CCWS. Its history now, lets look to the future and forge a new strong direction which will take on the mighty NASCAR. No ones gonna get confused because we were all confused for tha last 12 years, we can press the reset button and go again.

[nigelred5]

Ahh yes how fitting;
Ctrl+Alt+delete;
shutdown/restart = the "Microsoft Indycar World Series?" ;)