British & Irish Rally calendars 2023

[HKSjbg]

Official BRC highlights of Ceredigion:

https://youtu.be/gh4Gkhzk9zE?si=O3dp0XPkThWUOszO

I’m getting more and more impressed with the quality of their event coverage, just a shame the (BRC) entry was so poor

[Steve Boyd]

other older cars have their power restricted instead?

To make the cars slower doesnt cost load of money. It is exactly opposite - as these cars were build for current R5 rules, any other change (like bigger restrictor) makes them more powerful, but also less reliable as parts were designed for exact power. So with bigger restrictor you are paying more money to keep the car running on the equal quality...

To comply with Fast Eddy's request, old WRC cars would need new, smaller restrictors and re-mapping. Not cheap!

The BRC only allows cars complying with FIA homologation - look how popular that is. If those rules were applied acrosss UK rallying as a whole it would kill the sport entirely in the UK. You could argue that Rali Ceredigion looked daft with "national" R5+ cars competing against "international" Rally2/R5 cars with less power but without those "national" entries there wouldn't have been an event at all. The same situation will still arise if Rali Ceredigion is in the full ERC, but then we should see that the higher quality of drivers in that championship will be quicker in their lower powered cars than the UK "national" competitors in their R5+ cars.

[HKSjbg]

I still don’t understand why banning the larger restrictors on R5/Rally2 cars on national events has anything to do with older spec WRC cars. Barely anyone is driving them these days and so having your bigger restrictor on your R5 just means on you’re on an equal playing field with other R5+ drivers on national/clubman events.

If they were all using their FIA internationally homologated rally cars without the one thing that makes them running to ‘national’ spec what difference would there be? A flood of people trying to buy late-generation 2.0 litre WRCs?

If you wanted to drive something completely removed from current FIA homologation - WRC 2.0, WRC 1.6, A8, Mk2 with a 2.5 Millington - you still can if you’re that wealthy and enter national events.

[Steve Boyd]

Look at the entry history for UK events. We got here with R5+ cars because without the larger restrictors there wouldn't have been any R5 cars at all. They were allowed under UK national rules and still are. How would you re-write the MSUK technical regulations to outlaw them without banning a lot of other cars? You write a rule that says R5/Rally2 cars have to run to their FIA homologation and I turn up to an event with a Fabia, RHD, 4WD and Rally2 engine with oversized restrictor. I say it's a Fabia built to MSUK technical rules not a Rally2 car (it can't be Rally2, it's RHD) how do you write a regulation that bans that car without outlawing all other self-developed cars?

Don't forget that Rally2/R5 cars run in a different class from R5+ cars.

Anyway, if the new MSUK running order proposals become the rules for next year there might not be any forest rallies left.

[Sal yet again]

https://www.rallies.info/webentry/20...ies.php?type=u

The Stratos is back (hopefully!). Seb Perez entered in the car for the Malton Stages with dad in the Porsche.

[hutchie]

Interesting decisions been made regarding the Scottish Rally Championship and Carlisle Stages Rally. Carlisle Stages Rally is running two events a ~70 mile event which includes two stages Friday night and the ~45 mile Saturday event.

Seemingly SRC tried to include the full ~70 mile event as the SRC round but was met with the minimum 15% objection from entrants. And because the Friday night stages use some of the same road mileage as the Saturday have concluded that you cannot receive championship points if you compete in the full ~70 mile event!

I imagine that's a blow to the organisers who will have lost a significant number of Friday night entries. The championship seems to have gone through the process textbook so not sure if blame can be given but a shame for any SRC entries wanting Friday night action.

edit: However I have also noticed the post I saw outlining this has disappeared so potentially discussions still ongoing.

[AndyRAC]

I honestly despair at some of the people involved in UK rallying.....No wonder it's going nowhere.

[HKSjbg]

Look at the entry history for UK events. We got here with R5+ cars because without the larger restrictors there wouldn't have been any R5 cars at all. They were allowed under UK national rules and still are. How would you re-write the MSUK technical regulations to outlaw them without banning a lot of other cars? You write a rule that says R5/Rally2 cars have to run to their FIA homologation and I turn up to an event with a Fabia, RHD, 4WD and Rally2 engine with oversized restrictor. I say it's a Fabia built to MSUK technical rules not a Rally2 car (it can't be Rally2, it's RHD) how do you write a regulation that bans that car without outlawing all other self-developed cars?

Don't forget that Rally2/R5 cars run in a different class from R5+ cars.

Anyway, if the new MSUK running order proposals become the rules for next year there might not be any forest rallies left.

Well why can’t it be as simple as any bona-fide Rally2 car must run the standard restrictor size? How many self-developed rally cars are there fitting that description in the UK? The closest thing I can think of (and so far there has only been one example ever running on a single event of I’m not mistaken) is the TEG-Sport Skodaru. A car which nobody will argue is just an R5 car with some tinkering, it’s got a ruddy 2.0 Subaru WRC engine.

I fear I’m still missing the point, but I’m quite dense so please bear with me

What’s this on running order proposals and why would it have such a drastic effect on forestry rallies?

[Steve Boyd]

Any car running in a class for R5/Rally2 cars has to be in accordance with it's homologation and run the standard restrictor. This is a requirement for the BRC.

For events that have an "open" 4WD turbo class, outside the BRC, MSUK regulations apply. This is often an additional class to a class for R5/Rally2 cars running as homologated. MSUK regulations permit turbocharged or supercharged engines up to 2000cc to have a 34mm restrictor. This "open" 4WD turbo class includes older WRC cars and anything else that complies with the MSUK rules. The MSUK rules for modifying a 2WD car to 4WD include the FIA bulkhead and floor drawings so the bodyshell of anything like the Skodaru will end up looking very similar to the bodyshell of an R5 car. Once you get to that point, if you want to compete in the open class it's easier to get an old R5 car and put the running gear that you want in it. If that running gear is the original engine with a 34mm restrictor, that's within the rules and there are a few of them in the BTRDA championship. The difficulty with saying R5 cars have to be as homologated is that if I turn up with a 1600cc Turbo 4WD Felicia that I say I've built to MSUK rules and therefore fitted a 34mm restrictor. How do you stop me from running it. I'll say it isn't an R5 car because I've built it, and anyway it's right hand drive.

Regarding the running order change. Most BTRDA events run the 2WD cars first on the road with the slowest cars first. After the fastest 2WD car there's a gap of 5 to 10 minutes before the 4WD cars which run fastest first. This has been the practice for a few years. MSUK have decided that from January 1st the first group can only include cars up to 1400cc and Category 1 historic cars and they must run fastest first. All other cars will then follow after a gap, again fastest first. This will raise a number of issues. What if the historic field includes an 850cc Mini. That's probably going tho be the last of the first group. The next car on the road could be a WRC, R5+, or Rally2 car. The gap between them can't be more than 10 minutes. So stages have to be kept short so that the Mini isn't caught. How's that going to impact event planning? The BTRDA championship has a couple of historic classes with cars like the Avenger, Sunbeam, Mexico. These will currently be running between 1/3 and 1/2 way down the field after the smaller, less powerful cars. With the new rules they'll be last on the road. How's that going to impact entries?

[archie106]

Personally I liked the running order that used to be used on the Dukeries (and I'm sure on other events as well) where the field was split into 3: 1400s and slow historics, all other 2WD cars, then 4WD, with each group running fastest first. I know the Dukeries always used fairly short stages, but it seemed to work quite well from a spectators standpoint.