Should the McLaren drivers have their WDC points deducted for this year?

[markabilly]

ioan be careful what you wish for

as a quick look in the mirror might reveal your own unabashed loyalties to a particular team. What's good for the goose should be good for the gander right?

...can't we all just get along?

LOL

Okay MS spun and rubbed his plank a little thin, lost his points for that race and served a two race ban for the next two races. So instead of one small problem, we now have at least three doucmented "problems" so let us just do that....let see, three races per problem times three problems works out to a nine race ban for team mac for 2008...Hey I could live with that as setting the tone for cheaters and liars, just fine.

[jso1985]

This is very interresting.
I have also checked the posts so far, and I cannot find anyone who has come up with a plausible argument why the McLaren drivers should keep their points.

Because where's the need of further punishment? the FIA already knew they lied and cheated months ago, McLaren's new statement doesn't give anything new. In my view deducting their points would only take the whole spying saga further away when it's clear it needs to be over.

And taking previous deducting punishments from the FIA, other results wouldn't be changed, so still 0 points for Nakajima for example, so noone would benefit from them

[airshifter]

This is very interresting.
I have also checked the posts so far, and I cannot find anyone who has come up with a plausible argument why the McLaren drivers should keep their points.

OK, so they were offered immunity, but immunity from what? getting suspended for cheating? This was all before the systemic cheating came to light with the latest apology from McLaren.

Valve,

I don't at all like that the immunity deal was made. I think a proper investigation would have negated the need to make such a deal. However, being that the entire affair is already a mess, the powers that be should at least keep their word.

Removing the drivers points would only prove that the governing body is willing to lie, making them just as guilty as McLaren.



Personally once I saw evidence that Fernando and Pedro played a part in the Ferrari information they were both losers in my mind. That's a shame, because as drivers I think they both have good abilities. With Lewis I feel he may have known as well, but short of some evidence of that I would give him the benefit of the doubt.

If the car itself did not actually benefit the drivers earned the points from racing on track. I would not have a problem with the points being removed for their parts in the unsporting behavior involved for those proven to have taken part in distribution and intent to use the Ferrari information. But in the grand scheme of this mess called an investigation, that would only serve to prove that the "judges" in the court were not men of their word.

[winer]

..and what's the point of this ?

are we at a point where now we indulge in tetroactive wishful thinking?

wow

If the FIA in their insanity has seen it fit to end the affair and leave things as they are, why then is it still an issue. They haven't recieved moneyfor their points, nor WCC standing so what's the point?

I agree completely. There is no point to this exercise.

Of course there has been cheating in F1. There always has been and probably always will be. At least now it will not be blatant and obvious. The FIA has achieved their purpose in attempting to restrict the practice. It is now water under the bridge - ancient history. Lets get on with 2008.

[ClarkFan]

pino, could we have a poll please? Thanks!

In light of the fact that McLaren were using Ferrari technology, copying their designs and even had their drivers asking their mole at Ferrari on setups for each race, I feel strongly that both drivers should have their wins, podiums and all other points annulled for this year for blatant cheating.

So if pino will grant us a poll, a Yes vote would see the two score zero points, and the rest of the field moved up in points accordingly. After all, this is in line with the McLaren appeal against Williams and BMW so I can only call it poetic justice.

Valve,
I think you are really barking up the wrong season. McLaren seems to have been caught using Ferrari data to develop their 2008 car. This seems at least as serious to me as BAR's phantom tank issue in 2005, and McLaren even committed the BAR sin of false representation, continuing to use the data after pledging to sin no more. BAR caught a 2 race "holiday" for their troubles. That seems like a reasonable minimum for McLaren.

ClarkFan

[F1boat]

Kimi won the title through decent driving. Ferrari won the Constructors' Title.
At the end of the day, this is all that's important. The titles went to appropriate champions.

[/b]

Exactly. Better give McLaren some punishment for 2008 season.

[markabilly]

If there is no penalty, then there might as well NOT be much in rules about stealing anything from another team. Mac has again been caught cheating and lieing--and in the absence of the inspection, it would have continued and gone unabated in 2008

Not even the penalty imposed on MS for a plank too thin, not the penalty for certain race tank features.....besides

Who is dumb enough to think after all the the lies and nonsense of this year from them, that this freeze "promise" means anything. Ignore all the other lies, and look solely at this one inescapable fact:

Knowing that they were facing this inspection, they still had the utter gall and lack of ethics to attempt to slide this car right through into 2008 in hopes of continuing to cheat in 2008.

[PSfan]

Well, I'm rather indifferent as to whether or not the drivers should be stripped of their 2007 points or not, as I don't see it changing the final results for anyone else, just might make it easier for some Hamilton fans to digest his final 2 races seeing as it wouldn't have mattered in the end because he would have had the championship stripped from him anyways.

I however want to disagree with the assumption that the drivers having complete immunity by providing evidence in the 2nd hearing. What would have happened if Mcleran where to been discovered to had gained a clear advantage by using Ferrari document? Let the drivers continue, I think not. The immunity concerned their superlicenses, by testifying they could continue to race. Had things gone terribly bad without that agreement, we could have seen Alonso, Hamilton and PDR watching F1 in 08 instead of participating.

[truefan72]

I tried to restrain myself from an even worse post at that moment, and I think that given the circumstances (the post I answered) my answer was mild.

cool

[truefan72]

I agree completely. There is no point to this exercise.

Of course there has been cheating in F1. There always has been and probably always will be. At least now it will not be blatant and obvious. The FIA has achieved their purpose in attempting to restrict the practice. It is now water under the bridge - ancient history. Lets get on with 2008.

yyes i agree, but unfortunately in the verry next case very similar and with even more damning evidence and an acknowledgemnt of actual use of data by the accuesed team, the FIA decided to assess no fine or punishement. So I'm not so sure that they have gotten a hold on metting out punishment equally.

It is still a big tool from which Max Mosley chooses to use in whatever manner he sees fit. A tool he' has used and will continue to do so in avindictive and pwersonal manner.