WRC main class in 2025

[Kenneth]

You don't have took to the America. Dakar does the same already. Anyone can build car there with variety of engines. And there are a lot of entries from various makers, privateers, or tuners.

For example, Martin Prokop is building his Ford Raptor in his team. Well if a privateers can build Dakar car, I'm sure that huge teams like Prodrive, GCK or Oreca will be able to build Rally1 car.

[becher]

About cost cap: While true that financial "optimisations" can be done and most likely are already put in place by most teams in F1 there is a limit of what they can actually do. Moreover the teams watch eachother like hawks so it's somewhat self policing between them as well. The result, while it's true that Red Bull are dominating at the moment, in fact it is the tightest difference between the first and last car ever. The ATR/windtunnel restrictions and show and tell rules will gradually work to reduce that difference. Also keep in mind that 20 years ago teams were being sold for a nominal $1 whereas now they are worth hundreds of millions going towards a billion. Audi is paying hundreds of millions for 75% of Sauber. If that's not a healthy championship then I don't know what is.

To those that suggest the cost cap is innefective because it can be bypassed I suggest you educate yourselves on how it works in detail. Now if you suggest to me, like an acquaintance recently did, that it's just for show and just a giant conspiracy between the teams the FIA and the 3rd party international auditor and that in fact the cost cap has no effect than I will not reply anymore since I'd rather not waste my time

About BOP: BOP has the effect to limit spending because it stops chasing diminishing returns for increased costs. It's not just to help unsuitable cars in GT3 it's also a hard cap on performance. Yes it takes some budget to get to the reference but afterwards it's a hard limit on outright performance. Afterwards you need to have the best team and execute the races well. Yes it's very political and controversial. Still, I watched Group C fall when it became to expensive, then GT1 then LMP1 Hybrid (not to mention other categories or series). I'd rather have BOP than nothing. Also WEC is incredibly successful. This year there was record or near record crowd at Le Mans with over 300.000 tickets sold out half a year in advance. There are more manufacturers than almost ever. Because so many people want to race in the top category they are having to drop LMP2 from the WEC because they don't fit in the pitlane anymore. This year's Le Mans went down to the last 30 minutes or so between two teams with 5 different manufacturers leading the race at some point on merit. If that's not succesfull I don't know what is.

I'm not saying the WRC needs to take one of these and implement it, they need to find their own way or adapt one of those. But doing nothing will just make it lose out. Again.

I appreciate your argument for BOP but still rallying stayed true to straight regulations for so long and had a working championship competion wise (=> most/all cars being on a similar level most of the time) almost all of the time in the last 30 years. Also I don't think that the cost of the cars or their fairly limited development is the big budget factor, otherwise M Sport wouldn't be able to come out with a competitive car on a shoe string and than stay in the hunt for at least 2-3 years. Rallying is just hugely expensive when you consider what all goes with it compared to running a similarly "complicated" car in a professional circuit racing championship for 13 races.

The reason the cost cap increased the value of teams is because there is revenue in F1 which thanks to the cost cap is now in many cases bigger than the cost, but that revenue doesn't exist in WRC. So we would need the foundation first to achieve a sort of franchise status that F1 now has. Of course a cost cap could still work even without that, but would it entice manufacturers on its own?

[djip]

I am afraid BoP would be very hard to implement in WRC where terrain is very different from one rally to the next, from one stage to the next, even from one car to the next (when showers arise ..). Nothing like circuit racing where you drop the car in a wind tunnel, evaluate the downforce and provide adjustments - then everyonne one runs in the same condictions year in, year out and tweaks can be made with simple ballast.

As said, performance of cars is already prretty much balanced for all manufacturers, whether in Rally1 or rally2. The only issue is not enough teams/cars, because (i) outrageous cost and (ii) stupid regulation forbiding tuners to enter (which is called greed as FIA wants manufacturers to pay big entrry fees).

So to my opinion only 2 options :
1- Scale down to Rally2 - not Rally2 +, just basic rally2. There is a huge base of cars already in the field. Not to metion that this iw what rallying is all about : all competitors on (more or less) equal footing
2- Create a spec category with many standard parts (subframe, hybrid unit, gearbox, ...) open to all (importers and tuners included) provided of course it relates to some road car.

On both cases top teams would always remain on top, but the competition would be heated with small mistakes payed cash (=dropping dow the order) and the odd private entrant/specialist having the day of his life and fighting with the big boys. Lot more uncertainty, lot more fun ad better stories for the promoter. Back to the 90's GpA or the 70-80's Gp4 days !

I understand we'll loose the woaw effect of the current Rally 1 machines, but do you want a 6 cars show (once one of the current manufacturers out) ? All of us who also go and spectate second tier events (ERC, national) know that a well driven Rally2 car can put up a great show... if not compared to bigger/faster machinery.

[seb_sh]

Of course a cost cap could still work even without that, but would it entice manufacturers on its own?

That's the question, isn't it? I personally don't think that taking that taking X or Y from another series and applying it to WRC is the solution. But also rejecting everything isn't either. WRC needs to find its own secret sauce but there are things out there that work and shouldn't be ignored.

In WRC there are already a bunch of cost saving measures like limited testing, limited tyres, limited diff spec. I am asking myself lately how well these are working and if they are actually good for the sport. Like the one diff spec that makes a car work for a driver but not another surely can't be good for the competition. Is that really the right place to save costs? What if instead they save costs on aero development with a BOP style rule just for the aero? And then is just the cost the issue or is it also the marketing value, should they work more on the presentation? The only "bright" idea the promoter has had lately is to create a 24/7 Rally TV Channel on the internet in 2023 where everyone can stream whatever they want whenever they want on demand...

[becher]

That's the question, isn't it? I personally don't think that taking that taking X or Y from another series and applying it to WRC is the solution. But also rejecting everything isn't either. WRC needs to find its own secret sauce but there are things out there that work and shouldn't be ignored.

In WRC there are already a bunch of cost saving measures like limited testing, limited tyres, limited diff spec. I am asking myself lately how well these are working and if they are actually good for the sport. Like the one diff spec that makes a car work for a driver but not another surely can't be good for the competition. Is that really the right place to save costs? What if instead they save costs on aero development with a BOP style rule just for the aero? And then is just the cost the issue or is it also the marketing value, should they work more on the presentation? The only "bright" idea the promoter has had lately is to create a 24/7 Rally TV Channel on the internet in 2023 where everyone can stream whatever they want whenever they want on demand...

Yeah thats the point, just taking ideas from somewhere else is too simplistic. And I agree, many cost saving measures don't really work (especially limiting certain technical aspects) as teams just spend more than before because they develop in more intricate meaners. But BOP for aero seems like a moot point in the Rally1 era. Was there anything significant in that area? Don't think so. It's also not the defining factor performance wise.

[seb_sh]

Yeah thats the point, just taking ideas from somewhere else is too simplistic. And I agree, many cost saving measures don't really work (especially limiting certain technical aspects) as teams just spend more than before because they develop in more intricate meaners. But BOP for aero seems like a moot point in the Rally1 era. Was there anything significant in that area? Don't think so. It's also not the defining factor performance wise.

Obviously aero BOP wouldn't be enough by itself but could be part of a package. Usually aero development is expensive so putting a cap on aero efficiency would cap spending in that area. you'd have to know where money goes and decide what's worth it and what's not and that's something we can't decide on the forum.

[fiscorpun]

Has anyone seen this? The FIA Road Map for Sustainable Energies in Motorsport?

WRC can have H2 and EVs starting in 2025

https://e-formula.news/e-series/e-ra...ublished-42761

PS: Extreme-E is not a FIA series. AMC (Automobile Club de Monaco) is the governing body. Interesting. Never knew this thing existed. They are behind both Monte Carlo races (F1, WRC)

[Eli]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/f...ting/10500583/

Would be nice if they'd at least give us some details for what the next step is, and stop pretending they're the secret four or whatever.

[seb_sh]

Next step is to keep Rally1 more or less the same I presume. I don't think they know about 2027 and after.

[denkimi]

I just realised that one of the things that take up enormous amounts of time, testing and mony, being shock absorbers, could easily made a standard cheaper design if it would be made mandatory for all teams. It would also bring the cars closer to each other and could make the driving more spectacular if done right.