Ayrton would not have won anything in today's F1!

[Malbec]

Ayrton won Grands Prix for Lotus in cars which were usually unreliable and I think would have won the 1984 Monaco Grand Prix had it gone to completion.

Would he though? Bellof was catching the pair of them at a stonking rate.

Would Senna have been as strong now? Not sure. Most of his championships were won with as dominant a combination as Schumacher had at Ferrari, no single team is as strong anymore. Also while Senna moved the game on in terms of professionalism and fitness today his level of fitness and dedication is seen as the norm.

Unlike Nelsinho I wouldn't have thought Senna's technical expertise was his weakness, at the time it was one of his strengths. However again today with the level of electronic monitoring and telemetry I don't think this expertise would give him the degree of advantage it used to. Sutil used to be mocked for his rather poor technical expertise and feedback, didn't stop him from being damned quick in an FI.

[tmx]

Looks like it was craps made up the journalist, much ado about nothing. I never go to motorsport.com and now I know to not go there.

[Malbec]

The reason why Senna had Honda in his back pocket was the work he did at Lotus. Not just the Honda engines. Lotus pioneered active suspension. Senna warmed to the technology whereas say Mansell wanted nothing to do with it. Can't remember which year but there was a Lotus with a clever ride height system.

I think the reasons for the Senna/Honda/Japan three way lovefest are more complex than that.

Firstly Senna made it clear that he was racing for Honda as much as the team he was signed up to at the time and he made a big effort to engage with the Japanese media. Then there was his personality that the Japanese deeply admired, aggressive to the extreme on track yet quiet, thoughtful and almost humble off it. Also he's Brazilian, a country the Japanese feel a deep affinity with. Ultimately few if any drivers have been taken to heart as much by Honda or the Japanese in general as he was to the extent that no Japanese driver has ever been close to equalling him in terms of popularity and that fanatical levels of support for him there probably equalled that in Brazil.

How much of this was him being political and wanting the best engine maker of the period as an ally and how much was down to genuine chemistry I don't know.

[Big Ben]

Nelson is entitled to share his opinion on Senna or Fittipaldi... and we are entitled to laugh at him.

[wedge]

Would Senna have been as strong now? Not sure. Most of his championships were won with as dominant a combination as Schumacher had at Ferrari, no single team is as strong anymore. Also while Senna moved the game on in terms of professionalism and fitness today his level of fitness and dedication is seen as the norm.

You could say the say the same for most other WDCs. Champions had the best car at some point during the season. It's the ability to consistently maximise the car when you don't have a race winning car.

But yes, the competition between teams is much closer.

How much of this was him being political and wanting the best engine maker of the period as an ally and how much was down to genuine chemistry I don't know.

A combination.

Even at Toleman he was adept at politics such as wanting better tyres and signing up with

I think he knew he could get away at playing the spoilt brat even up to 1993 he managed to get $1million race fees yet Ron Dennis wanted nothing to do with him.

[Rollo]

Would Senna have been as strong now? Not sure. Most of his championships were won with as dominant a combination as Schumacher had at Ferrari, no single team is as strong anymore. Also while Senna moved the game on in terms of professionalism and fitness today his level of fitness and dedication is seen as the norm.

Unlike Nelsinho I wouldn't have thought Senna's technical expertise was his weakness, at the time it was one of his strengths. However again today with the level of electronic monitoring and telemetry I don't think this expertise would give him the degree of advantage it used to. Sutil used to be mocked for his rather poor technical expertise and feedback, didn't stop him from being damned quick in an FI.

Yes but had Senna been around today, he would have been shaped by the same forces as other drivers today.
The Senna born in 1960 would be a different Senna to one born in 1987. To that end, Senna's contemporary would have been Vettel.

The sheer and utter ruthlessness that 60 Senna showed would have been identical to an 87 Senna. Conditions are vastly different, but I still suspect that our hypothetical Senna would have been in a top team (probably in Massa's or Webber's seat) and been winning GPs anyway.

Senna did make a Toleman score fastest laps and did win grands prix in the Lotus. Piquet Jr. did neither the Renault, even though Alonso proved that the car was capable of winning grands prix.

Would he though? Bellof was catching the pair of them at a stonking rate.

Bellof would have had to have passed both of them. That's a tall very order indeed.

[Bruce D]

The reason why Senna had Honda in his back pocket was the work he did at Lotus. Not just the Honda engines. Lotus pioneered active suspension. Senna warmed to the technology whereas say Mansell wanted nothing to do with it. Can't remember which year but there was a Lotus with a clever ride height system.

Funny I've just finished reading the 1987 Autocourse annual (got 86-89 on a mega bargain recently) and he states that he left Lotus because he wasn't happy with the progress of the active suspension system. They dropped it in 1988 too.

[The Black Knight]

Yes but had Senna been around today, he would have been shaped by the same forces as other drivers today.
The Senna born in 1960 would be a different Senna to one born in 1987. To that end, Senna's contemporary would have been Vettel.

The sheer and utter ruthlessness that 60 Senna showed would have been identical to an 87 Senna. Conditions are vastly different, but I still suspect that our hypothetical Senna would have been in a top team (probably in Massa's or Webber's seat) and been winning GPs anyway.

Senna did make a Toleman score fastest laps and did win grands prix in the Lotus. Piquet Jr. did neither the Renault, even though Alonso proved that the car was capable of winning grands prix.



Bellof would have had to have passed both of them. That's a tall very order indeed.

Yep, people always go on about Senna in that race but Bellof was faster than both of them and another amazing talent who life was cut too short. Senna was the kind of driver that would have been in a top team no matter what and, in my opinion, he would have kicked Vettel's ass.

[kfzmeister]

..he would have kicked Vettel's ass.

Vettel who?

[Knock-on]

Jr is a disgrace and a twat. End of story.