[WRC] News & Rumours 2019

**Allez Andruet** · 17th July 2019, 08:05

Originally Posted by pantealex

Mökkönen is his only mistake

Was he with Jouhki? Didn't know that. Mökkönen had huge potential (all the way since Finnish Junior Championship '88) but it just never materialized on World level. 1000 Lakes 1995 was especially bitter moment

**mknight** · 17th July 2019, 08:26

Originally Posted by Allez Andruet

So far the list of "Jouhki drivers in WRC" is as follows: Kankkunen, Mäkinen, Rovanperä Sr., Gardemeister, Hirvonen, Latvala and Suninen. Out of those G-Man is the only one failing to win a WRC event (I count Suninen as being on his way to one), so overall Jouhki delivers quite top quality, I would say.

Clearly this explains the comment why it's long time since teams fought for his driver. Only exception could have been Latvala back in days, but I don't remember how it went then. Hirvonen had to be "rescued" after the too early entry with Subaru. Gardermeister always seemed to end in the wrong team until 2005 when it was kind of too late.

I am not saying Jouhki doesn't deliver, but compared to how arrogant he seems in media, it's certainly not as great. (as mentioned out of the 5 drivers that won the title in last 20 years, none was his). Last one I remember is from last year (Germany or Finland I think).
Becs: "I am standing here with one of the most famous WRC managers...."
Joukhi jumps in in the middle of the sentence: "Correction, THE most famous WRC manager...."

**AnttiL** · 17th July 2019, 08:58

Who else can you name? Veiby? How many titles? Jouhki already decided to retire but then Suninen(?) changed his mind

**rallyfiend** · 17th July 2019, 09:15

Originally Posted by AnttiL

Who else can you name? Veiby? How many titles? Jouhki already decided to retire but then Suninen(?) changed his mind

Kim Vatanen worked with Ogier in his early career. And many other drivers...

**Allez Andruet** · 17th July 2019, 09:52

Originally Posted by rallyfiend

Kim Vatanen worked with Ogier in his early career. And many other drivers...

With all due respect to Kim Vatanen, his resume and legacy (when it comes to managing WRC drivers) is not even in the same ballpark as Jouhki's.

**mknight** · 17th July 2019, 09:53

Originally Posted by AnttiL

Who else can you name? Veiby? How many titles? Jouhki already decided to retire but then Suninen(?) changed his mind

Looks like you missed my point here. He might well be the most known manager or even the "best".
But saying it about himself that way makes him look arrogant.

Tanak is the probably the fastest driver atm, but does not go around saying that, therefore he is popular. While Neuville who is a bit more vocal about himselff is considered arrogant. Jouhki seems to be on another level above that again.

**Allez Andruet** · 17th July 2019, 10:04

Originally Posted by AnttiL

Who else can you name? Veiby? How many titles? Jouhki already decided to retire but then Suninen(?) changed his mind

Exactly. And I have no reason to hype up Jouhki any further, but his CV speaks volumes. Sure, not even his clients have been able to unseat any of the Sebs, but that hardly serves as any kind of base for a conclusion that he would have lost his touch or anything like that.

**Allez Andruet** · 17th July 2019, 10:06

Originally Posted by mknight

He might well be the most known manager or even the "best".
But saying it about himself that way makes him look arrogant.

And how's that affecting his resume?

Btw, there's always a sense of humor in his so-called arrogance.

**mknight** · 17th July 2019, 10:51

Originally Posted by Allez Andruet

And how's that affecting his resume?

Btw, there's always a sense of humor in his so-called arrogance.

His resume is not exactly bulletproof. You mentioned only two Sebs, but Solberg, Burns and Gronholm won 4 championships in total in same period.
As mentioned Gardermeister always seemed to end in a wrong team (Seat, Mitsu just as it started to loose out and then Skoda). Hirvonens career almost got destroyed by the too early move to a full time drive at Subaru (granted this was also due to Burns illness).

His method of "buying" seats for "almost" ready drivers is disliked by a lot of people. The typical argument is that it created a new "norm" where even relatively established drivers with good speed are expected to "bring budget". Recent example Tidemand as a WRC2 champion didn't bring money, while Suninen who often was slower than him was pushed in with budget.
(btw. Veiby's method of never paying anything seems to be the other extreme, probably not good either). Sure this effect of "buying" places has been there for ages, but it becoming a norm is associated with Jouhki prbly due to that 2004 Hirvonen year.

This way the amount of money people bring is becoming more important than actual skills, so that you risk getting more "weaker" drivers with money than very good ones without money. Since none of his drivers won the title in last 20 years it's not so easy to argue that the drivers he brought in were really the best.

**Allez Andruet** · 17th July 2019, 11:19

Originally Posted by mknight

His resume is not exactly bulletproof.

Still waiting for you to name a WRC manager with better one...

Originally Posted by mknight

You mentioned only two Sebs, but Solberg, Burns and Gronholm won 4 championships in total in same period.

After a period (1986-1999) in which Jouhki's clients had took 8 out of 14 available titles. And as was already mentioned in this topic, Jouhki already retired (i.e didn't look for new drivers) after Latvala and actually returned with new talent only in 2015 with Suninen.

Originally Posted by mknight

Hirvonens career almost got destroyed by the too early move to a full time drive at Subaru (granted this was also due to Burns illness).

I struggle to figure out what Burnsie has to do with all this, but the fact that Hirvonen's career DID NOT get destroyed has to be counted as a major accomplishment for Jouhki as that's what managers are being paid for, right?

Originally Posted by mknight

His method of "buying" seats for "almost" ready drivers is disliked by a lot of people. The typical argument is that it created a new "norm" where even relatively established drivers with good speed are expected to "bring budget". Recent example Tidemand as a WRC2 champion didn't bring money, while Suninen who often was slower than him was pushed in with budget.
(btw. Veiby's method of never paying anything seems to be the other extreme, probably not good either). Sure this effect of "buying" places has been there for ages, but it becoming a norm is associated with Jouhki prbly due to that 2004 Hirvonen year.

This way the amount of money people bring is becoming more important than actual skills, so that you risk getting more "weaker" drivers with money than very good ones without money. Since none of his drivers won the title in last 20 years it's not so easy to argue that the drivers he brought in were really the best.

Oh yes, "buying seats", maybe the most hypocrite of all excuses. As team managers had never heard about that possibility before the big bad Jouhki introduced the method... Newsflash: securing funding has always played a big role especially in all motorsport.