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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    Toto said :
    "The biggest weakness is the dynamic of the relationship between the drivers , and sometimes between the drivers and the team."

    I wonder if he was talking about anyone in specific .
    Well given that Rosberg was pouting for most of the year as he got his ass kicked and that Mercedes have been trying everything to appease him recently then I'd say that's whom he is talking about.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    Toto said :
    "The biggest weakness is the dynamic of the relationship between the drivers , and sometimes between the drivers and the team."

    I wonder if he was talking about anyone in specific .
    I didn't think it was anybody specific as he said 'drivers'.

    But if I had to speculate I would say perhaps Nico has been more difficult seeing as he has been the one behind and publicly unhappy for much of the season.
    .

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by henners88 View Post
    I didn't think it was anybody specific as he said 'drivers'.

    But if I had to speculate I would say perhaps Nico has been more difficult seeing as he has been the one behind and publicly unhappy for much of the season.
    You're right that he did say "drivers" , but given that Nico has been unhappy with Lewis , not Merc , and Lewis has been unhappy with the team because of strategy , the second part of the statement seems to be directly pointed at Hamilton , doesn't it ?
    Add it to recent events and I think it is , albeit couched in political correctness with the added "s" .

    It was within an interview where he said one would have to go if they couldn't get along .

    This was , in my opinion , a direct shot across the bow , and with Nico having just poled and won the last three , a warning for the Lewis camp .
    He was just told that nobody is bigger than the team .

  4. #204
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    Whoever is second and finishes behind his team-mate, is unhappy. It is not rocket science. Just like Hamilton was unhappy late in the season.

    Also there ARE tensions if you have got a top car and fight for the WDC. Because there is so much at stake as EVERYONE wants to win. Even the so-called second drivers would ideally like to win, but have to swallow the pride.

    Of course Alonso and Button currently sit at the back and can smile together, because they have nothing to fight for. But imagine if team-mates Button and Alonso were at the front and battle for WDC, the knives would be out. You'll get guaranteed 'difficulties in relationship' if you fight for WDCs. No rocket science either.

    Overall Hamilton and Rosberg have done fine together. Because there has been no major fall-out in the proportions of Senna vs Prost or Hamilton vs Alonso. Toto Wolff should know there is no ideal harmony in fight for WDCs. As long as there is no major fall-out, everything is "pretty fine". Let's be realistic with our expectations.
    Last edited by jens; 3rd December 2015 at 12:55.

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  6. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    You're right that he did say "drivers" , but given that Nico has been unhappy with Lewis , not Merc , and Lewis has been unhappy with the team because of strategy , the second part of the statement seems to be directly pointed at Hamilton , doesn't it ?
    Add it to recent events and I think it is , albeit couched in political correctness with the added "s" .

    It was within an interview where he said one would have to go if they couldn't get along .

    This was , in my opinion , a direct shot across the bow , and with Nico having just poled and won the last three , a warning for the Lewis camp .
    He was just told that nobody is bigger than the team .
    Well this is all just speculation. At the end of the day it could have been aimed at either driver, however, considering he was suggesting the lineup could change for 2017 and that Hamilton's contract goes until end of 2017 and Nico's is out next year, and that Hamilton is unequivocally the faster driver, I find highly unlikely they'd want to be rid of him. Plus, from a marketing perspective, Lewis is much more marketable than Nico. Nico is just a downright bore, whereas Lewis is out at events, meeting with celebrities, bringing the Mercedes brand and Petronas under the public eye. There's no way Mercedes are going to want to give that up instead of a slower guy that sits at home with his wife and kids.

    The simple fact is that it could be aimed at either driver, but Lewis Hamilton is box office and brings great attention to the team. Rosberg is boring and not as quick. It could be either but the likelihood, given all I've said above, is that Rosberg would be given the boot.

  7. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrodaze View Post
    What you call extroverted is the hall mark of the pop culture. It is a movement that has gripped the British youth and mainstream since the sixties. Evidence of it is still prominent in the US, France, Spain, Canada and even Germany etc. To a certain extent, pop culture has waned in recent times but still has a strong presence in the performance arts; music scenes and is making in roads into sports.

    Your typical sport personality is very serious and professional like. Mostly politically correct and primed for media interactions. This unfortunately makes almost all sport personalities very boring outside their sporting duties. Take tennis for instance, besides the entertainment of great athleticism of the show, the tennis players are usually very bland. Gone are the days when tennis players let their hair down and reveal their human nature, God l miss John McEroe, Connor, Boris Becker etc. Except a small few not afraid to make fashion statements like the Williams sisters and their earrings etc. I am sure you can name a few others.

    The case is very much the same with F1 drivers. Most are quite uninteresting outside the car. Most very rarely show any hint of individualism beside asserting their thoughts during media interviews. Any display of individualism is frowned upon and dismissed as childish and not serious. Or immature.

    Hamilton has dared to bring about a cross between the racing world and the arts world. Two paradigms at opposite ends of the human spectrum. A mix of the serious world of F1 and the playful but expressively extravagant culture of the performance art world. It is a daring experiment and certainly challenging the typical F1 culture to dare letting their hair down for a little bit. The great thing about it all, is Hamilton has demonstrated that his individualistic lifestyle has little impact on his abilities to deliver championship winning performances as witnessed this last two years.

    There are enough socially conformant [politically correct] drivers on the grid, hence one non conformant individualistic pop culture driver among these lot is most welcomed in my book. Kind of like a modern day Hunt, but different.
    Well yeah. Fair enough.

    I guess it comes down to personal preferences.

    I personally... don't care about the off-track "bling". Those celebrities can wear what they want and can give as crazy interviews as they can, but I could care less. My attention is on other things.

    Hence I don't feel much relation to discussions about how 'bland' someone is. IMO the most important thing is that person/celebrity feels well and natural. If it is 'natural' for him/her to be bland, it is better, than go out of your way and make antics to desperately catch attention.

    When I want to watch F1, I watch the race. If there is no race, I turn my attention to other activites, and do not try to follow "F1 off-track soap opera". Except practical things, like driver silly season, contracts, political/regulational decisions, and such.

    But yeah, each to their own.
    Last edited by jens; 3rd December 2015 at 14:17.

  8. Likes: Tazio (3rd December 2015)
  9. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    You're right that he did say "drivers" , but given that Nico has been unhappy with Lewis , not Merc , and Lewis has been unhappy with the team because of strategy , the second part of the statement seems to be directly pointed at Hamilton , doesn't it ?
    Add it to recent events and I think it is , albeit couched in political correctness with the added "s" .

    It was within an interview where he said one would have to go if they couldn't get along .

    This was , in my opinion , a direct shot across the bow , and with Nico having just poled and won the last three , a warning for the Lewis camp .
    He was just told that nobody is bigger than the team .
    Judging by the article on the BBC today it seems Nico complains behind the scenes a lot more than Lewis. Like yourself I am trying to find evidence to swing this towards Lewis being to blame, but quite a few sources now are pointing towards Nico.
    .

  10. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Knight View Post
    Well this is all just speculation. At the end of the day it could have been aimed at either driver, however, considering he was suggesting the lineup could change for 2017 and that Hamilton's contract goes until end of 2017 and Nico's is out next year, and that Hamilton is unequivocally the faster driver, I find highly unlikely they'd want to be rid of him. Plus, from a marketing perspective, Lewis is much more marketable than Nico. Nico is just a downright bore, whereas Lewis is out at events, meeting with celebrities, bringing the Mercedes brand and Petronas under the public eye. There's no way Mercedes are going to want to give that up instead of a slower guy that sits at home with his wife and kids.

    The simple fact is that it could be aimed at either driver, but Lewis Hamilton is box office and brings great attention to the team. Rosberg is boring and not as quick. It could be either but the likelihood, given all I've said above, is that Rosberg would be given the boot.
    Now , Mr. Knight , you know what a contract is worth in F1 .

    And , your Lewis has just been shown that they will change the car to suit Nico , despite his protests , and that Rosberg can win consistently as a result .

    Behind the scenes , you'd have to figure that Rosberg was watching from the other side of the garage as Lewis tried to work with the new suspension .
    And , thus , he saw it as an opportunity to show off in what he called a "mini-championship" of three races .

    That's what he did , with poles and wins in all three .
    All sewn up , with no drama .

    Whereas Hamilton was such a pouty second that they had to hand him the strategy calls in the final outing .

    Remember , they get the privilege of dealing with Lewis's antics for a much larger paycheck than old boring Nico .

    You repeated a couple of times that Lewis is faster .
    You're right that he was faster with the old configuration of the suspension , because it suited him rather than Nico .
    Now , though , it's rather the other way around .


    One could say that his flash marketing perspective is all he's got right now , without the outright pace to "humiliate" his team-mate , like he did earlier this year with a car that suited him rather than his team-mate .

    Lewis is fast . Of that there is absolutely no doubt .
    Any team would be happy with that .
    And , he's outgoing , and going out to all the hot spots with all the hot people , bringing lots of bling and lines of press for F1 and his team , and any team should be happy with that .

    But , he's trouble , and no team needs that .
    Last edited by Bagwan; 3rd December 2015 at 16:39.

  11. Likes: Mia 01 (3rd December 2015)
  12. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by jens View Post
    Well yeah. Fair enough.

    I guess it comes down to personal preferences.

    I personally... don't care about the off-track "bling". Those celebrities can wear what they want and can give as crazy interviews as they can, but I could care less. My attention is on other things.

    Hence I don't feel much relation to discussions about how 'bland' someone is. IMO the most important thing is that person/celebrity feels well and natural. If it is 'natural' for him/her to be bland, it is better, than go out of your way and make antics to desperately catch attention.

    When I want to watch F1, I watch the race. If there is no race, I turn my attention to other activites, and do not try to follow "F1 off-track soap opera". Except practical things, like driver silly season, contracts, political/regulational decisions, and such.

    But yeah, each to their own.
    I can't argue with that. Fairly put. Each to his own and no judgement.

  13. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bagwan View Post
    Now , Mr. Knight , you know what a contract is worth in F1 .

    And , your Lewis has just been shown that they will change the car to suit Nico , despite his protests , and that Rosberg can win consistently as a result .

    Behind the scenes , you'd have to figure that Rosberg was watching from the other side of the garage as Lewis tried to work with the new suspension .
    And , thus , he saw it as an opportunity to show off in what he called a "mini-championship" of three races .

    That's what he did , with poles and wins in all three .
    All sewn up , with no drama .

    Whereas Hamilton was such a pouty second that they had to hand him the strategy calls in the final outing .

    Remember , they get the privilege of dealing with Lewis's antics for a much larger paycheck than old boring Nico .

    You repeated a couple of times that Lewis is faster .
    You're right that he was faster with the old configuration of the suspension , because it suited him rather than Nico .
    Now , though , it's rather the other way around .


    One could say that his flash marketing perspective is all he's got right now , without the outright pace to "humiliate" his team-mate , like he did earlier this year with a car that suited him rather than his team-mate .

    Lewis is fast . Of that there is absolutely no doubt .
    Any team would be happy with that .
    And , he's outgoing , and going out to all the hot spots with all the hot people , bringing lots of bling and lines of press for F1 and his team , and any team should be happy with that .

    But , he's trouble , and no team needs that .
    What evidence do you have that Lewis is 'trouble'?

    You simply dislike him to the point all other objective discussion is pushed aside because of it. No speculation is ever put where Lewis is not to blame for anything in your eyes. Once upon a time you were like Jens. You didn't have a favourite driver but were able to give a measured opinion. Now it's just overly negative bias and that's very sad.
    .

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