What about group "B" ??

[Josti]

]urabus-denoS2000: The story about Toivonen's drive against F1 in qualiffying for Estoril 1986 appears quite often in the internet but the truth is that GP of Estoril took place on 21st September but Henry died on 2nd May...

I think there's a grain of truth in this story. This could have happened at recce of the '86 Portuguese rally, in which the Estoril track was the Rally HQ
that year (could be near the track too, I'm not sure). But indeed, it's still an unconfirmed story.

Though these words of Hannu Mikkola do make quite a clear comparison of Group B and F1 (at the opening scene of the video).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYhiJeRPgdw

[A.F.F.]

Good points, I agree... Could it also be that the FIA also percieved the incredible popularity of Grp B to be a threat to F1 ?

I recall right, this is exactly what Pentti has said many times.

[Meeve]

So it was not all about security reason but not to become more popular then the F1... But about now? That was about 20 years ago. Could it be possible to make a new kind of "group B"? And why do the FIA care so much about not to take over F1 popularity? F1 lost in popularity these days I think.. There is no more race it's all about qualification. If you have good qualification you will end the race in a good position. I heard that now in F1 it's 90% car and 10% driving skill. For the rally group B being banned for the F1 stay popular, is there sport more important then other sport? Why is F1 considered more important then rally by the FIA?

[DonJippo]

Why is F1 considered more important then rally by the FIA?

Because it is Bernie's money machine

[Meeve]

Because it is Bernie's money machine

What or who is Bernie? Is the F1 part of the FIA? If the F1 is a money machine, can't the rally become one? If it one day become more popular..

[tmx]

^ That is exactly what the F1A wanted to do, making the world rally championship an elite sport, an in way backfired, in my point of view. Although there are more politics to it than the fia. I am not 110% on the exact cost a WRC manu have to pay per car to enter per WRC rally right now, but even that number is huge. The cost droves all the privateers and some manufacturer away. There is less and less about endurance and more about sprinting. Very few manufacturers are left and there are not enough competitions.

I think the golden age for the WRC series has pass for a while, and they are really trying to bring this thing back right now. I don't think rallying can be as popular neither, because of the sport format. It is better and easier for television coverage with circuit racing, where you can follow the car around the track, with rallying, it can be hard to compare all the split time for normal viewers who isn't passonate and they think it's boring with one car by itself anyway. This is one the main problem, the sport has very bad coverage and advertisement. With the rally video games kind of promote the sport a bit for the younger audiances.

It's a controversial subject and we have been discussing it a lot lately in the forum.

Bernie Ecclestone is the ceo of formula one management and administration, for promoting and licensing of commercial rights of the sport.

[tmx]

btw, I'm not sure if you meant to ask the question: "Is the F1 part of the FIA?" in a literal way or in a philosophical way. But literally, basic the FIA is the governing political body that make all the rules and regulations for all the motosports under it's name, and supposingly, a nonprofit organization. Mostly for series "created/own" by the FIA, but they really have a big influences all around.

[WRCfan]

The story about Toivonen at Estoril is true.

The Rally HQ was held at Estoril and at the time Toivonen did some laps in the Group B car. Hs times were recorded and it was noticed when the GP took place, the times he set while Rally HQ was there would have earned him 6th place on the grid for that year's F1 GP.

He of course wasn't in the rally car at the Grand Prix.

[Meeve]

Thanks you all for answering me. I hope one day FIA will consider a new group "B", with of course a better gestion then they were back then. Today, can the WRC car compare to the famous group B car in term of performance? Because of the new technologies, it might be possible. If I remember it is now 300Hp maximum right? What is the difference between old group B and WRC car except for the engine limitation? Can you guys please help me with that?

[Shrike]

Though not quite the spectacle its been said that todays WRC cars get better stage times than Group B cars did.