Theissen: customer cars will ruin F1

[samuratt]

I'm all for it. I would love to see a privateer Mclaren, Ferrari or Renault take it to the big boys and change up the yawn fests of late.

You won't never see that!!! because a privateer Ferrari will have to finish behind the official Ferrari due to the manufacturar orders. That is the mayor concern when I think of 6 cars from the same manufacturer.

[TOgoFASTER]

I was referring to the Ford/Jaguar period in particular, but your point is well made. In my defence I'd say that Ford merely provided the financial backing for Keith Duckworth and Cosworth (at the behest of Colin Chapman) to produce the DFV. It was not a Ford product, although the Ford & Cosworth names will always remain linked.

Ford in F1 have been most effective when working with specialists like Cosworth, or in partnership with the likes of Lotus, Williams, Benetton and even Stewart. When they go it alone their record is not stupendous, something that Toyota are learning to their cost.

I'll agree.
It was Chapman that got all the parties together and that Ford's part was more or less the financial end. Ford also OKed the use of the DFV in the McLaren and Tyrrell teams for 1968. They got the same or very close to the same spec engine as the factory Lotus. That was a shining example of, for the betterment of the sport.
I hope one day to see a return to a balance that allows manufactures and indepentents without the politics.

[agwiii]

In my defence I'd say that Ford merely provided the financial backing for Keith Duckworth and Cosworth (at the behest of Colin Chapman) to produce the DFV. It was not a Ford product, although the Ford & Cosworth names will always remain linked.

When FORD paid for the product, why do you consider it not to be a FORD product?

[ArrowsFA1]

When FORD paid for the product, why do you consider it not to be a FORD product?

Because the DFV was designed, conceived, built and engineered by COSWORTH in the same way that the BMW P86 2.4V8 was designed, conceived, built and engineered by BMW.

[veeten]

sorry, but it's the truth.

From reading the responses, both here on this thread & forum and in others, it has come to me that a great many are products of the present generation, that of which are used to what they see as Formula 1 of the last 15-20 years. Unfortunately, what they are actually witnessing is the triumph of marketing over motorsport, which didn't happen overnight, but over time.

Remember when Formula 1 trully exuded the ideal of innovation & creative thinking?... that was back when the teams & manufacturers built original designs in both chassis & engines, such as the Ferrari 312 Boxer engine, or Renault-Gordini Turbo V6, BMW Turbo I-4(which was based on their production engine), Matra & Alfa Romeo V12, Ford-Cosworth DFV V8... Lotus 72 & 78, Ferrari T312, McLaren M23, Brabbham BT-series, Tyrrell P3/4 & later the P34 6-Wheeler...

These and many ideas that sprung from the fertile minds of those we held in the highest esteem all the way to the mid-80's were replaced by the cold, repetitive logic of fluid dynamics & wind tunnels, producing chassis that if one removed all paint & advertising marks, as well as driver numbers, and run them on track at the same time, one would have a devil of a time trying to distinguish one from another. Engines that have been legislated into a one size used by all specification, where the only way to know which is which is in how much throttle the driver is using.

The recent slate of rules that been a classic example of what has happened over the past 20+ years; true creative thought has been drownned out, replaced by incremmental mediocrity, and buttressed by hype to give it justification fleecing the world public.

I often find it comical when people do comparisons between F1 & NASCAR, as both are essentially doing the same thing: equalization by fiat as a means generating revenue. Thank you, Bernie & Max.

[Viv]

With customer cars..in the current scenario I think there'll be 2 team championship fights. One between the 'A' teams for the title and another championship battle between the customer teams for the best 'B' team :

[agwiii]

Because the DFV was designed, conceived, built and engineered by COSWORTH in the same way that the BMW P86 2.4V8 was designed, conceived, built and engineered by BMW.

If you buy something, does that make it yours? I think you're just reaching on this to discredit FORD in favor of Cosworth. Had it not been for FORD, there would not have been a DFV.

[Dazz9908]

You won't never see that!!! because a privateer Ferrari will have to finish behind the official Ferrari due to the manufacturar orders. That is the mayor concern when I think of 6 cars from the same manufacturer.

Is that mean we will have a:
Drivers Championship
Manufactures Championship
And Possibly a Team Championship.

I drought it, Cars may be coupled to a different engines to the Main Team.
Many combinations are plausible. Interesting Thought that!

[ArrowsFA1]

If you buy something, does that make it yours?

Funny you should say that. I was going to begin my post you quoted with "if you buy a pair of Nikes would that make them agwiiis?"

I think you're just reaching on this to discredit FORD in favor of Cosworth. Had it not been for FORD, there would not have been a DFV.

I've no reason to discredit Ford. I merely wished to raise the point that, unlike BMW or Toyota today, Ford effectively badged something that they did not produce. Nothing wrong with that at all.

[TOgoFASTER]

^ I will always look at it as a partnership that all three parts involved played equal parts.
Chapman wanted a engine that could be used as a stressed member, in fact he set a lot of the specs for the engine project including the price range per unit required, Cosworth had the know how and Ford found the project worth investing in as they wanted an F1 presences. BTW Ford had worked with Cosworth years before the DFV on other projects.
One without the other equals no DFV.