Theissen: customer cars will ruin F1

[RS]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56107

Discuss

I'm inclined to agree with him. Watching the small teams battling away with their own equipment has been one of the things I love about F1 and it looks set to come to an end.

Ok, so for the smaller teams it can be good news in terms of competitiveness relative to the front runners, but their competitiveness relative to each other is unlikely to change much, and I can't see a McLaren or Ferrari 'B' team being allowed to outperform the A team.

It might save them a bit of cash, but probably in return for taking the 'A' teams junior drivers, and my other issue is where are the designers/engineers/aerodynamacists who eventually find their way into the top teams going to get their schooling? Not at the tail enders any more

[Gannex]

I agree with you, RS. What makes F1 special, for me, is the fact that every team is also a design and manufacturing company. That way, F1 really is an engineering competition as well as a racing series, but with customer chassis, that will no longer be the case. What will there be to distinguish an F1 team using customer chassis from a Champ Car team or an IRL team? Very little.

[Periapt]

I agree with you, RS. What makes F1 special, for me, is the fact that every team is also a design and manufacturing company. That way, F1 really is an engineering competition as well as a racing series, but with customer chassis, that will no longer be the case. What will there be to distinguish an F1 team using customer chassis from a Champ Car team or an IRL team? Very little.

In the early days of F1 private entries were not unusual. Many privateers raced in Cooper and Lotus chassis. There were even non-team Ferraris. I don't see a problem with it. The constructor's championship could be based on the two best finishers for each constructor, regardless of which team they were with, and you could even add a team championship if you felt it necessary.

Of course, the privateers rarely had the most up-to-date equippment. On the other hand, you might find a constructor unwilling to field a works team, but willing to give factory support to those privateers driving their equippment, as Porche has done in recent times in other series. Indeed, this might be a way to allow the privateers to compete against the likes of Ferrari by spreading the R&D costs over several teams, all using the same basic equippment, modified to suit their particular styles.

Periapt

[agwiii]

I agree with you, RS. What makes F1 special, for me, is the fact that every team is also a design and manufacturing company. That way, F1 really is an engineering competition as well as a racing series, but with customer chassis, that will no longer be the case. What will there be to distinguish an F1 team using customer chassis from a Champ Car team or an IRL team? Very little.

Gannex, I agree with what you are saying, but how is this different from the era of the Ford DFV when most cars used the same engine?

[agwiii]

In the early days of F1 private entries were not unusual. Many privateers raced in Cooper and Lotus chassis. There were even non-team Ferraris. I don't see a problem with it. The constructor's championship could be based on the two best finishers for each constructor, regardless of which team they were with, and you could even add a team championship if you felt it necessary.

Of course, the privateers rarely had the most up-to-date equippment. On the other hand, you might find a constructor unwilling to field a works team, but willing to give factory support to those privateers driving their equippment, as Porche has done in recent times in other series. Indeed, this might be a way to allow the privateers to compete against the likes of Ferrari by spreading the R&D costs over several teams, all using the same basic equippment, modified to suit their particular styles.

Periapt

F1 has gone through several eras when the engines were mostly the same (Coventry-Climax, Ford DFV), as well as when Lotus, Lola, Cooper and others sold customer chassis and there were true private entrants. Who can forget Rob Walker's private Loti for Sterling Moss? I'm afraid such things are in the past. For many years, Minardi was the most popular team with the fans, and of course, they had no chance of winning. Money drives all of these current events, and I don't think we will ever return to the era when privateers could be competitive.

[Roamy]

what a crock of sh!t - Theissen just doesn't want to race on a even playing field. I think F1 needs a couple of great independent car makers

[ST205GT4]

I agree it's a joke. As if the big manufacturer's don't already control F1!!! And where is the variety in seeing the huge gaps in the ability of the moneybags manufacturers fighting for the wins and seeing the other half of the grid 2 seconds a lap slower? I'd rather more competitve cars than half a field of competitive cars and half a field of fillers.

[Sleeper]

Anyone that saw the winter testing times would have noticed that the Hondas were all at the top end of the time sheets, wereas the Super Aguris were in the midfield using what was in effect the same car with only a few differences and the same driver that developed the RA106. The quality of the team will always shine through but can F1 really afford having the smaller teams priced out because they have to design, build and develop their own cars? Its clear that if a team wants to be winners they will have to design, build and develop their own cars but to start out in the sport, like Prodrive will be doing in '08, and to get a footing on the grid its a very good way to start without having to brke the bank on facilities and personel straight out.

[veeten]

sounds more like Mario is afraid that he'll get beaten on the track by some independent team using the same equipment as his team, only doing the job better than him. It has happened before...

This is the reason why you haven't heard any bad press on this from Ferrari, Mercedes, Honda... The main teams will have the newer & better equipment, while the independent teams will get the more basic packages and will build their own teams from that, including the hiring of their own personel.

Thiessen's idea works only if there was sufficient reason for other manufacturers to consider supplying or creating an F1 team, and at present that's just not the case. The cost is just too prohibitive for those outside of the present company to create a working budget, and the way Ford left the game two years ago gives them nothing but incentive to look elsewhere for a motorsport programme.

[ArrowsFA1]

I assume that Theissen opposes Red Bull/Toro Rosso in that case. They are effectively one team running four cars. To make it worse they are using "customer" Ferrari and Renault engines.

Is there a difference between a team providing their chassis to another team, and an engine manufacturer providing engines to a second team?

I have a problem with Theissen's view simply because manufacturers enter and leave F1 with no consideration for the sport. At the moment BMW are one of a number of manufacturers involved, but Ford have shown that manufacturers involvement can end at any time. At the moment F1 is dominated by manufacturers, but their financial committment is not limitless.

How long, for example, are Toyota willing to pour money at the midfield?