Mclaren cleared....for now *merged*

[raphael123]

I think thats unfair. When Ferrari have been guilty of something everyone has bayed for their blood, including me. Maclaren have a lot to answer for imo, but have been allowed to get away with it - purely, and again this is my opinion only, because of Hamilton leading the championship.

Maclaren knew about that moving floor which Ferrari were bending the rules by using - How did they know? Only one way. Yes, Ferrari were yet again trying to cheat by using it, but doesn't everyone always say that in F1, its up to the FIA to clarify the rules?

The trouble with F1 is that its rotten to its very core. This isn't helping.

What exactly have McLaren 'got away with'? One member of staff had a document belonging to another's team, the McLaren operation weren't aware of this, they didn't benefit from it, and it wasn't used. Why should they be docked points? Drivers are allowed to keep their points when the team are found to have broken the rules because they weren't involved, so why should McLaren be punished when it was only one person?

I think McLaren were right to be found guilty, as you win as a team, and lose as a team, but the punishment was right, as McLaren haven't benefitted from it, and weren't even aware of it. If it later comes to light they were aware of it, and did use it, then I agree, they should be punished...severely!

[wmcot]

but the punishment was right, as McLaren haven't benefitted from it, and weren't even aware of it.

Right, we have THEIR word on that!!! (Backed up by RD's "integrity!")

How appropriate that this hearing took place in France, land of "it's easier to give in to your enemy than to fight him!"

[pino]

What exactly have McLaren 'got away with'? One member of staff had a document belonging to another's team, the McLaren operation weren't aware of this, they didn't benefit from it, and it wasn't used. Why should they be docked points? Drivers are allowed to keep their points when the team are found to have broken the rules because they weren't involved, so why should McLaren be punished when it was only one person?

I think McLaren were right to be found guilty, as you win as a team, and lose as a team, but the punishment was right, as McLaren haven't benefitted from it, and weren't even aware of it. If it later comes to light they were aware of it, and did use it, then I agree, they should be punished...severely!

Mc Laren did break a rule, and normally in life and sport, when you do break a rule you get a punishment...

[raphael123]

Of course money controls F1, it is a business after all. I'm not questioning that. My opinion is simply this: If an individual commits the crime, punish the individual. If a team commits the crime, punish the team. And if the individual commits a crime that helps the team, punish both. Right now, there is only proof that crime was done on an individual level. If it is proved that McLaren did use Ferrari intelligence in their design, then McLaren should be severely punished.

Spot on

Schumacher wanted to win the championship by punting Jacques and the FIA punished him rightly by completely removing it from it. I'm sure drivers would rather get banned from a race instead of getting banned from the championship. If you want to continue discussing this, please PM me.

Not really. Schumacher's punishment was lame to say the least. Getting removed from 2nd place in the championship, after the championship is over is nothing - especially as he got to keep all his wins, poles and fastest laps. It's like removing Hill from the '99 championship standings after he retired if we found out he had done something awful that year - not much of a punishment is it?

[raphael123]

So you're saying that McLaren don't know what's going on in their own team unless Ferrari points it out to them?????

And that makes sense to you???

I think they know more about it than you.
The fact Coughlan's wife went to a public library to photocopy it shows McLaren weren't aware he had it. If they were, and they were ok about it, he would have done it at work where no one other than McLaren would have known about it.

[ojciec dyrektor]

Mc Laren did break a rule, and normally in life and sport, when you do break a rule you get a punishment...

Who is McLaren? Coughlan did break a rule, not team McLaren.

In 1994 team Benetton break the rule and wasn't punished. What was Yours judgement in that case?

[raphael123]

So a victim should receive the same punishment as a thief??

Man, there are a lot of people with weird logic (or a bit too much alcohol) posting on this forum! Think about what you're saying, people!

Ferrari got caught cheating, and are moaning that they got caught cheating, through the team finding out by cheating.

I'd hardly call 'Ferrari' or 'Stepney' the victims. As you say, think about what you're saying

[raphael123]

I didn't realize that the McLaren designers were so dumb that with 780 pages of documents sitting around for 3 months, nobody could find any useful information in them!!!

I am also not naive enough to believe that nobody but Coughlan saw them for 3 months!

From what I understand, only Coughlan had the document, and from what I gather, the FIA have inspected the Mclaren 2007 car, and there is no evidence that suggests they have used that information on this years car.

Do you have a family member who works for McLaren who knows more is it?

[raphael123]

So what percentage of individuals on a team have to see the illegal documents before it becomes a TEAM problem? 1%? 10%? 50%? 100%?

This may be a silly comparison. But if a family member went and stole £1m and gave you half, and you knew it was stolen, you'd get punished and rightly so. If they stole £1m, and didn't give you any of it - why should you get punished?

If your working for a bank, and you steal money from another bank, should the whole bank be punished?

[wmcot]

Ferrari got caught cheating, and are moaning that they got caught cheating, through the team finding out by cheating.

I'd hardly call 'Ferrari' or 'Stepney' the victims. As you say, think about what you're saying

Talk about distorting the truth! McLaren were found GUILTY! Ferrari weren't even on trial!

Lose the Ferrari-bashing mentality! If someone sneezes in the F1 paddock, it's because Ferrari cheated! Doesn't it get old?????

I DID think about what I said - my vision is not distorted by my hatred!