FIA Rally Working Group: the future of WRC and the rally sport

[PLuto]

I have a feeling the Solbergs were there pushing for the WRC Kit for Rally2.

Or who else?

I dont think so. In reality, I dont know who was pushing for Rally2 Kit. I didnt found anyone from "insiders" who really likes it.

[Morte66]

I have been wondering about this idea of sort-of-merging WRC1/2 by nerfing/buffing the cars, and how it will play out on cleaning rallies.

In Sweden, we had a WRC2 stage win thanks to massive cleaning. I thought it was a cool story once, but it would be a bit silly if it happened all the time. Somebody mentioned the Janner rally, where they sometimes get massive cleaning and guys starting an hour or two back in Evos get stage wins. Will we get much more of this if we close/eliminate the gap between WRC1/2?

I'm thinking of Sordo's wins in Sardinia, which I think he mostly owed to road position. Could we see somebody like Gus Greensmith or Marco Bulacia getting overall podiums in a WRC2+ because it's their first rally of the year and they started 30th on the road?

And if so, would it be a good thing?

[BleAivano]

A short interview on local radio with Pernilla. Doesn't really say anything except that her mission officially starts on 1 April.

https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/ska...andra-rally-vm

[saco0o]

the best suggestion i read still something like:
- hybrid/electric/hydrogen rally2 car for manufacturer teams
- current regular rally2 car for privateer and costumer teams
if Lancia wants to sell rally2 car for privateers all over the world, they can! if they want to run as a manufacturer, get a kit. that way toyota could develop their hydrogen yaris, that would be cool. ralliart is racing hybrids, maybe they could come back too. hyundai and renault have electric projects? bring it.
oh, there b.o.p. for sure

[WRCStan]

- hybrid/electric/hydrogen rally2 car

What does that mean? Any examples?

[saco0o]

What does that mean? Any examples?

im not the best with these technical stuff, ok? but my thought would be manufacturer teams would have to build a 'rally2' car with: hybrid engines OR totally electric OR one that runs on hydrogen on the same "specs" (like max power to weight ratio) as a regular rally2 ("4.2kg/hp" / 1230kg / 1620cc). it would be heavier, of course, so then you have a little bit more power to compensate. i dont know how the b.o.p. would have to be implemented, but im sure people with more knoweledge could help. that way, for example, Hyundai could run their hybrid KONA on the factory team, but it would be "on the same level" as privateers running i20 rally2 cars. i mean, of course it would not be exactly the same since manufacturer teams spend more so they are normally faster, but that way we could have room for manufacturer and privateer/costumer teams on the top class, since the "specs" would be more similar. they can even run their IONIQ 5N with electric power as long as the power to weight ratio is similar to current rally2 cars (again, im not sure how that works on b.o.p., but im sure is doable).
does that sound ok? of course rally2s are not as fast as rally1, and its NOT going to be a "rally2+" thing, its just rally2 cars, but manufacturers gotta run hybrid engines, or full electric or on hydrogen (like toyota already showed, tho that looked more like a rally3 machinery)

i know its easy to say this from my couch here, but when manufacturers want to move on to new models, they could have a "racing division" to sell their "next" rally2 cars with regular engines and synth fuel to privateers, like skoda and msport does. Hyundai could have a Kona with regular engine and synth fuel competing all over the world in the rally2 class, because its just for competition. maybe?

[WRCStan]

"specs" (like max power to weight ratio) as a regular rally2 ("4.2kg/hp" / 1230kg / 1620cc).

Cool, I think this is best way. For some it seems as simple as bodyshell car = Rally2 and prototype = Rally1, and the FIA are proposing evolutions of these as equals which makes no sense.

I agree with you generally on opening up, I think. It's whether WRC should be a testing ground or a proving ground, and right now... are there competition ready cars? No. Do manufacturers use motorsport to develop their road going tech, no - and it's probably illegal to advertise, which is a big problem, beyond the control of the working group. On that, will we ever see a 'Group A/N' WRC car again? Probably not. Thus why the FIA are doing R&D in hydrogen and EV.

You got it when you said the manufacturers don't want to be same league as everybody else. I don't think the current protest is much that they care for hybrid, they just don't want to be challenged.

[saco0o]

never watched this sport but for 2024 they are posting these great 25 min highlights and ALL THE TIME all i could think was "they did a waay better job than wrc on these highlights". like, presentating the sport. at least in my opinion. sharing here just for the thoughts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr-gs2T9Dgs

obviously i know that this is a different sport, but hey. super special stages, 'rally stages' in the 'middle of the forest' where fans gotta go to those place to watch the action. racing against the clock. not thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat distant from rallying

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/ogier...tem-is-a-joke/

Ogier seems to agree with us.

[Mirek]

im not the best with these technical stuff, ok? but my thought would be manufacturer teams would have to build a 'rally2' car with: hybrid engines OR totally electric OR one that runs on hydrogen on the same "specs" (like max power to weight ratio) as a regular rally2 ("4.2kg/hp" / 1230kg / 1620cc). it would be heavier, of course, so then you have a little bit more power to compensate. i dont know how the b.o.p. would have to be implemented, but im sure people with more knoweledge could help. that way, for example, Hyundai could run their hybrid KONA on the factory team, but it would be "on the same level" as privateers running i20 rally2 cars. i mean, of course it would not be exactly the same since manufacturer teams spend more so they are normally faster, but that way we could have room for manufacturer and privateer/costumer teams on the top class, since the "specs" would be more similar. they can even run their IONIQ 5N with electric power as long as the power to weight ratio is similar to current rally2 cars (again, im not sure how that works on b.o.p., but im sure is doable).
does that sound ok? of course rally2s are not as fast as rally1, and its NOT going to be a "rally2+" thing, its just rally2 cars, but manufacturers gotta run hybrid engines, or full electric or on hydrogen (like toyota already showed, tho that looked more like a rally3 machinery)

i know its easy to say this from my couch here, but when manufacturers want to move on to new models, they could have a "racing division" to sell their "next" rally2 cars with regular engines and synth fuel to privateers, like skoda and msport does. Hyundai could have a Kona with regular engine and synth fuel competing all over the world in the rally2 class, because its just for competition. maybe?

In ralying you can't compensate weight with power. It's not drag racing. Heavy cars are slow in corners.

Fully electric COMPETITIVE rally car is impossible at 2024 tech level. You would need something like 400-500 kg of batteries to finish one section. Such car would be slow as hell especially if based on stock bodyshell (the electric "R5" in Austria had some 300 kg battery pack from Formula-E, it was slower than regular Rally2 cars and still not capable to finish a common WRC section distance).

Stock bodyshells of the small cars are generally not well suitable for making them into hybrid or EV. That's one of the reasons why we have spaceframe prototypes. For example if you use stock bodyshells you need different battery pack for every car unless it's very small battery (size, available space, shape of the floor etc.). Generally stock bodyshells for WRC/Rally1 level bring a lot of troubles. They make sense for Rally2 because the production numbers are much greater. For Rally1 the spaceframe prototypes are absolutely the right way to go especially taking into account the future possibility of private teams to homologate their own cars (and that is a must for the sport to survive).

The only way how to make an EV car competitive in WRC is the same way as in Dakar - serial hybrid. Again pretty much unsuitable for far majority of stock bodyshells which weren't designed with that in mind.

IMHO In the forseenable future WRC will go with synthetic fuels or hydrogen but not with EV.