Good old Bernie....

[airshifter]

Am I the only one that has seen the latest on the Singapore 2008 Crashgate scandal? I actually thought it might have been a late April Fools joke at first, but it appears not. Felipe Massa may take legal action concerning the 2008 title due to statements made by Bernie Ecclestone that they were aware of the race fixing in adequate time, and that the race results should have been excluded from the season. And several sources are quoting his statements making it seem pretty black and white that they knew but just let it slide.

It will be interesting to see what if anything comes from all of this. I would imagine if Felipe gets involved Ferrari might get behind him. Most sources say Felipe doesn't want to go after any money.... but would Ferrari feel the same? No doubt the FIA would fight it all tooth and nail, but it might be a tough case if Bernies statements are proven.

Crashgate V2.0, coming in 2023?



The strange world that is F1 as we know it.

[ouvreur]

It's interesting enough, but even if Massa / Ferrari take it on, the ultimate court who would decide the outcome is still the FIA themselves. There's no right of appeal to CAS, and if the Italian courts took a position on it, the Italian Grand Prix would probably find itself without a slot in the calendar.

Ultimately, I'd put money on Bernie refusing to actually take the stand and tell a court that he knew all along and kept it buried. What we've heard recently is just a bit of attention-seeking from a man who can't bear not to be at the centre of the sport he made any more.

Although, having said that, maybe this is why Lewis didn't want to upset the apple cart in the wake of Abu Dhabi 2021...

[The Black Knight]

If these latest developments are all true then they probably couldn't have acted because there was no proof early enough. Massa hasn't a hope of overturning a 15 year old championship decision. I agree he should be 2008 world champion though. Mind you if Ferrari hadn't left the fuel rig on his car after his first pit stop he could have still been champion.

[airshifter]

Agreed that the pit stop screwed him regardless, but the below is what seemed to be quoted by almost every source.

“Back then, there was a rule that a world championship classification after the FIA ​​awards ceremony at the end of the year was untouchable. So Hamilton was presented with the trophy and everything was fine," Ecclestone said in an interview with German site F1-Insider.“We had enough information in time to investigate the matter. According to the statutes, we should have cancelled the race in Singapore under these conditions," he said. "That means it would never have happened for the championship standings. And then Felipe Massa would have become world champion and not Lewis Hamilton.”

[janneppi]

You could do it like they did in Biathlon two years ago and share the title between the two.
Russia's Olga Zaitsev was stripped of her 2014 results due to Sotchi doping issues.
This mean that the points score had to be recalculated and the resulting points score changed the no 1.
But since it wasn't the fault of the original no1. They did'nt strip her of the title.

Sent from my Takapalk.

[airshifter]

Janneppi,

Good point, and I agree. But to some extent this is what confuses me on Felipe's stance. Let's say Bernie states that the quoted bit is 100% true, Felipe is crowned champion after the fact, and they either do or don't allow Lewis to retain the joint title as well.

If Felipe doesn't go after money from Bernie, what has he really gained? Granted having the title would mean a lot to a person, but it wouldn't compensate for any changes to income through contracts, endorsements, bonuses, etc. And if they suddenly changed it, does anyone really think any more or less of Felipe? Or Lewis?

[janneppi]

Granted having the title would mean a lot to a person,

I think this is enough motivation.

On the other hand the situation is so complicated, the only just action would be to disqualify both Massa and Hamilton from the championship and give the wdc to the 3rd place competitor.

Sent from my Takapalk.

[airshifter]

I guess only time will tell. It just seems that after 15 years it's not doing down well for Felipe. And I can't say that I blame him if Bernie's comments are true.

[airshifter]

I think his qualms is with the dodgy FIA and F1M. History repeated itself at Abu Dhabi did it not? So much time has passed, such that it would be ridiculous at best to alter such a long-standing race result. However, Bernie's comments have opened up an ugly can of worms. The old fart should be relegated away from cameras, microphones etc

I think it is vastly different to Abu Dhabi. What took place at AD '21 was seen by the world. The decisions were then based on the semantics of the regs, appeals, etc. IF there is any truth to the statements Bernie has made, whoever knew about it kept it in the dark, didn't follow the policy in place, and potentially altered a WDC, as well as both WDC and WCC points standings.

While it has been a long time, if Bernie kept his mouth shut all the time nobody would have known. And if he did open his mouth he probably should have just taken it to the grave. But to silence the only person who might know the truth isn't doing anyone any justice either. Even if they don't change any results officially, if by the regs Felipe should have been WDC then they should at least acknowledge that and the mistakes involved. If nothing else it might help them take a hard look at the regs, how investigations work, the process, etc.

[airshifter]

The reason I say the outcome was altered was due to the quote attributed to Bernie, in which he claims to have not played by the rules.

“We had enough information in time to investigate the matter. According to the statutes, we should have cancelled the race in Singapore under these conditions," he said. "That means it would never have happened for the championship standings. And then Felipe Massa would have become world champion and not Lewis Hamilton.”

I agree that nobody knows what might have happened had the spin not been directed, but if there was a statute that stated it should have been cancelled for the purpose of points, it surely wasn't followed.

As for the leading teams changing, people can speculate all they want and have done it for years. But for the most part modern F1 has seen periods of team domination frequently, often with only regs changes upsetting the balance. But people attach whatever they can in speculation and try to find a way to say it's all fixed. I personally don't fall for it myself. Though I'm far from having 100% faith in FOM or the FIA, I think often the fans engineer more problems with the speculation.