[WRC] Croatia Rally 2023

[ouvreur]

I must say I dont like this. I know they have special permissions, but for me this is against the rules to allow WRC competitors to do same stages like WRC event only three weeks before the rally...

That's the thing that bugs me most. If a competitor informally went cycling to take a look at the roads, they would rightly be penalised. But somehow it's allowed for an organiser to put a rally on them, and anyone who wants to (and can afford it) can drive two passes of recce and three in competition... it doesn't make sense to me.

[bluuford]

That's the thing that bugs me most. If a competitor informally went cycling to take a look at the roads, they would rightly be penalised. But somehow it's allowed for an organiser to put a rally on them, and anyone who wants to (and can afford it) can drive two passes of recce and three in competition... it doesn't make sense to me.

Covid time Arctic rally was run mostly on same stages and Rovanperä took part in both events, but if I am not mistaken, all those stages were run in opposite direction, which is big difference. Additionally winter rally is never the same couple of weeks later So, I don't remember such a case.

[AnttiL]

Covid time Arctic rally was run mostly on same stages and Rovanperä took part in both events, but if I am not mistaken, all those stages were run in opposite direction, which is big difference. Additionally winter rally is never the same couple of weeks later So, I don't remember such a case.

Rovanperä took part in Arctic in 2020, WRC event was run in 2021. Hänninen did the event as a test for the team in 2021 but not the WRC event. Oliver Solberg did the normal Arctic in R5 and then WRC with the WRC car. Only the power stage was run in the same direction as in the WRC event. And yeah, conditions were pretty different, even Toyota was a bit lost with their setup.

Mänttä 200 ajo in Finland has used 1000 Lakes route in the mid-to-late 80's but back then recce was more free anyway.

Last year Ouninpohja Rally used like 2-3 km that was run in the WRC event but AFAIK only Teemu Asunmaa was someone who did both events.

[ouvreur]

Covid time Arctic rally was run mostly on same stages and Rovanperä took part in both events, but if I am not mistaken, all those stages were run in opposite direction, which is big difference. Additionally winter rally is never the same couple of weeks later So, I don't remember such a case.

If the organisers of Karlovac ran those WRC Croatia stages in the opposite direction I wouldn't see any problem at all. Then it would be a test, in comparable conditions, on similar roads - no different to any other competitor's PET.

What those crews who participated in Karlovac have actually done is practised 3 stages of a WRC event 3 times, in their entry cars, within a month of that WRC event taking place. Practicing stages hasn't been allowed for decades.

[J4MIE]

What those crews who participated in Karlovac have actually done is practised 3 stages of a WRC event 3 times, in their entry cars, within a month of that WRC event taking place. Practicing stages hasn't been allowed for decades.

No - they’ve participated in another event which is completely allowed and always has been.

It’s no different from the Fafe rallysprint (or whatever it was) that was organised for a few years as a warm up for Portugal. Wasn’t that something like the previous weekend?

[AnttiL]

No - they’ve participated in another event which is completely allowed and always has been.

It's not "completely allowed", you need FIA's permission to take part in the rally, for example in the case of Karlovac, if you want to also do the WRC event.

It’s no different from the Fafe rallysprint (or whatever it was) that was organised for a few years as a warm up for Portugal. Wasn’t that something like the previous weekend?

In the days when Rally Portugal was far from Fafe, in the South.

But Rally Fafe ERC has been arranged on the same stages as WRC Rally Portugal. Teemu Suninen just commented on this topic and said that it's different in Fafe when the rally is run months earlier, the conditions are so different. And I think it's the same as Equator Rally Kenya and Safari Rally, first is arranged in the mud season (and anyway no WRC regulars have participated)

[pedro16]

No - they’ve participated in another event which is completely allowed and always has been.

It’s no different from the Fafe rallysprint (or whatever it was) that was organised for a few years as a warm up for Portugal. Wasn’t that something like the previous weekend?

Fafe Rallysprint was organised for a few years when Rally Portugal was held in the south of the country, so there was no overlap.

But if you want to give a portuguese example, the next round of the portuguese national championship (2 weeks before Rally Portugal) runs 2x the final 15Km of the Amarante WRC stage. In the recent years there where always some WRC2 crews coming. In this case I don't see much of an issue since its not the full stage and the full one (WRC) has been ran the same way since 2015.

But Rally Fafe ERC has been arranged on the same stages as WRC Rally Portugal. Teemu Suninen just commented on this topic and said that it's different in Fafe when the rally is run months earlier, the conditions are so different. And I think it's the same as Equator Rally Kenya and Safari Rally, first is arranged in the mud season (and anyway no WRC regulars have participated)

It ended up not being quite the overlap it looked to be. The only repeated stages that where run where Fafe and Santa Quitéria (Felgueiras). and none of them are new to most of the drivers. The WRC version of Cabeceiras de Basto is run in reverse this year, and the Vieira do Minho stage (ended being cancelled) was meant to be a shortened reversed version of the WRC stage which has been slightly altered this year with 5 extra km in the end.

And yes, the winter conditions change a lot the character of some stages. Plus, the ones that took a bigger hit by the winter usually are repaired and graded closer to May.


I see an issue when we are talking about completely new stages. IIRC, Tanak and Sordo were doing Rally Fafe in 2020 and only couldn't run Felgueiras because it was a new stage for the WRC event. If this is applied all is fine to me.

[J4MIE]

It's not "completely allowed", you need FIA's permission to take part in the rally, for example in the case of Karlovac, if you want to also do the WRC event.

And I think it's the same as Equator Rally Kenya and Safari Rally, first is arranged in the mud season (and anyway no WRC regulars have participated)

Fair enough, but has this ever been refused? Unlikely. Especially if organisers are keen as it will also be good promotion/warm up for the WRC event.

Equator and Safari ran in identical dry conditions last year. The wet seasons are not that reliable any more due to climate change, last year was in May.

[bluuford]

Rovanperä took part in Arctic in 2020, WRC event was run in 2021. Hänninen did the event as a test for the team in 2021 but not the WRC event. Oliver Solberg did the normal Arctic in R5 and then WRC with the WRC car. Only the power stage was run in the same direction as in the WRC event. And yeah, conditions were pretty different, even Toyota was a bit lost with their setup.

Mänttä 200 ajo in Finland has used 1000 Lakes route in the mid-to-late 80's but back then recce was more free anyway.

Last year Ouninpohja Rally used like 2-3 km that was run in the WRC event but AFAIK only Teemu Asunmaa was someone who did both events.

Thank you for refreshing my memory, I am getting old, one year seems like couple of weeks :P

[J4MIE]

Have just been asked to co-drive in Croatia but too late to get time off work I think
Having to work for a living majorly sucks……