Do we need more cars on the grid?

[Firstgear]

Three things that I think (just my opinions) will work against Andretti:
- A lot of people outside of NA fail to realize how big the Andretti name is in the US. Having Andretti in F1 will bring with it a lot of growth in the US as well as $US. But I think Europeans generally have trouble with the concept that a slightly smaller piece of a bigger pie is a good thing.
- The teams are afraid of losing their American sponsors to Andretti.
- The excitement that Drive to Survive brought to F1 and the corresponding increase in the value of F1 has peaked, so Andretti will be 'buying in high'.

I'd really like to see Andretti on the grid, but I still think there's quite a bit of struggle ahead before it happens.

[Used to be Starter]

Three things that I think (just my opinions) will work against Andretti:
- A lot of people outside of NA fail to realize how big the Andretti name is in the US. Having Andretti in F1 will bring with it a lot of growth in the US as well as $US. But I think Europeans generally have trouble with the concept that a slightly smaller piece of a bigger pie is a good thing.
- The teams are afraid of losing their American sponsors to Andretti.
- The excitement that Drive to Survive brought to F1 and the corresponding increase in the value of F1 has peaked, so Andretti will be 'buying in high'.

I'd really like to see Andretti on the grid, but I still think there's quite a bit of struggle ahead before it happens.

Three well taken points. I still think that those controlling F1 are more than aware of your first point and understand what the impact of a bigger pie could be for all. They're pretty much not dumb people. Still, we'll see how it all unfolds.

[Nitrodaze]

Three things that I think (just my opinions) will work against Andretti:
- A lot of people outside of NA fail to realize how big the Andretti name is in the US. Having Andretti in F1 will bring with it a lot of growth in the US as well as $US. But I think Europeans generally have trouble with the concept that a slightly smaller piece of a bigger pie is a good thing.
- The teams are afraid of losing their American sponsors to Andretti.
- The excitement that Drive to Survive brought to F1 and the corresponding increase in the value of F1 has peaked, so Andretti will be 'buying in high'.

I'd really like to see Andretti on the grid, but I still think there's quite a bit of struggle ahead before it happens.

On the last point, it is a small part of the story. I think the impact of the COVID lockdown almost brought most of the grid to the brink of bankruptcy has more to do with it. The current teams had to weather the lull by paying out of pocket to stay in the sport while no money was coming in. It kind of made every team on the grid have a higher value for having a slot on the grid.

It is not fear or worry of losing sponsors. It is simply that they are still feeling the pinch of it all. And fear it may recur again unexpectedly in the near future.

[Bagwan]

I think it's a done deal , or will be as soon as all the dancing is through .

Three races , and an all-American hero named team on the grid with GM in as well ?
Can anyone smell the money ?
There will be no lack of new sponsors looking hard at F1 , surely , so few worries about losing any .

It's just about the numbers now .


One last point about this :
After all the vetting and press about how hard the procedure was to endure for those attempting to enter the championship , it , I think , would be unwise to deny the entry outright at this point .
To have one's brand associated with a denial would risk a 350million person boycott .
Americans are loyal to the brand they follow .


It's a done deal .

[Used to be Starter]

I think it's a done deal , or will be as soon as all the dancing is through ....One last point about this :
After all the vetting and press about how hard the procedure was to endure for those attempting to enter the championship , it , I think , would be unwise to deny the entry outright at this point .
To have one's brand associated with a denial would risk a 350million person boycott .
Americans are loyal to the brand they follow .

I think you are correct. Dump Andretti and they risk losing all of the American fans they have spent the last three years courting. That would also risk losing a couple of the new American dates on the calendar.

[Nitrodaze]

I think you are correct. Dump Andretti and they risk losing all of the American fans they have spent the last three years courting. That would also risk losing a couple of the new American dates on the calendar.

I doubt they would prevent Andrettii from joining the grid. They may however make it a difficult passage. Mostly due to Andretti's poor appreciation of how F1 conducts business. And l don't think losing American money would be a problem for F1. After all, the formula has survived for many years without it.

If the teams feel they may be dealing with a loose cannon that may upset the way things are done traditionally in F1. They may well think 350 million dollars is a small price to pay. Please note that there isn't an anti-American sentiment in F1. After all, Haas is a thriving American team in F1.

Andretti would have a spot on the grid quicker if they work with F1 the way the formula does things. This is not Indycar. I personally am very excited that they got the clear from the FIA. The tricky bit is navigating the FOM. If they don't play this right, they may not end up on the grid for the reason l stated earlier.

[airshifter]

I expect pushback from FOM, but personally I think the teams have over valued themselves in recent years. It's easy to do, and claim a team is worth a billion dollars. But how much have any teams actually sold for in recent years? One of the people looking to found a team (that was rejected by the FIA) had stated in articles that Alpha Tauri wanting close to a billion was just not viable.

But as for Andretti, I think they will likely get in after being extorted for more money. The teams will show their greed and ask for more to enter the "good old boys" club, and they will try to talk their way around it being just primarily greed. TBH the FIA and FOM should both have in place vetting processes, already have agreements on the number of allowable teams, and none of the behind closed doors crap should be going on regardless of who is wanting in.

And for the record, though I expect that greed will be what causes the push back towards Andretti, the same greed will probably grant them entry. With the US market finally expanding, pissing off an attempted US entry might shut the door on that market somewhat. Let's face facts, Andretti is much more well known than Haas, and Haas is on the grid. A number of teams have floundered for years, including some of the names big in history. If they want to limit the number of spots available fine. But they should do it in a way that allows teams to be pushed out by stronger contenders if that is the case. Nobody should get a pass because of history, nor should the good old boys club dictate stupid requirements that change on the regular.

[Nitrodaze]

I have to agree with that assessment. The teams are being unreasonable. After all, Redbull has two teams on the grid but wants to prevent other teams from joining the grid. How fair is that? The over-valuation of each team on the grid is going to be a real problem in the near future as it is not sustainable.

I would say, if they insist on having ten teams only on the grid then maybe Redbull should give up its junior team to make way for Andretti. Not allowing the grid to grow beyond ten teams is silly and greedy. It is supposed to be a world championship after all. All qualified applicants should be granted access without unduly punitive entrance fees. Otherwise, it does not qualify as a world championship. Racing at different venues around the world does not make a world championship. Having participants from around the world is what makes it a world championship.

It is like saying teams are not allowed to progress into the British Premiership. This is the same as saying teams in the premiership should not be relegated from the premiership.

The concorde agreement should not be about keeping new teams out. It should be about placing a threshold of financial efficiency for teams to qualify to benefit from the pot of funds divvied out each season. Having ten teams only serves to guarantee that all teams would get funds regardless of how inefficiently they operate. This formula should be a competition at every level; including operational efficiency. Having more than ten teams and a threshold for entitlement to a share of the pot is the ideal way to run the formula as a bonefide world championship rather than a exclusive club of teams.

Financially weak teams at the rear of the grid are the most vulnerable to the dilution of the pot. I learned from sky F1 that the pot was originally designed for twelve cars on the grid. As it goes, ten cars are enjoying the share intended for 12 cars but do not want an 11th car to join the grid.

[F1nKS]

I think they Andretti deal should be approved. They are quality team and will bring additional competition to the grid. They seem to have some impressive backing with Gainbridge and Group1001. It actually might grow the pie with Cadillac and GMC supporting the Andretti deal.

I have not seen an argument of why it would not be good for F1. All I have seen is a protectionist attitude where they are taking a position that their team is going to be diminished if another team joins.

[Nitrodaze]

I think they Andretti deal should be approved. They are quality team and will bring additional competition to the grid. They seem to have some impressive backing with Gainbridge and Group1001. It actually might grow the pie with Cadillac and GMC supporting the Andretti deal.

I have not seen an argument of why it would not be good for F1. All I have seen is a protectionist attitude where they are taking a position that their team is going to be diminished if another team joins.

I agree, but Andretti did not respect the F1 process. Thinking he only needs the approval of the FIA and not engaging FOM effectively in its bid only makes resistance present at the FOM stage. Unfortunately, they may have to pay dearly for their poor interfacing with FOM.

That said, the argument for diluting the share of the pot is very stupid. Joining F1 has never been about how a team impacts the share of the pot. Also, F1 has in the past run with more than ten teams without any problems in the Ecclestone era. This new culture of exclusivism is ugly and goes hand in hand with how the formula is perceived to be very corrupt in recent times. The lack of transparency and hidden dealings and dodgy decisions.

Say what you like about Ecclestone and Mosley, they ran an open shop that was also very fair.